Market Related Salary

[Mark van Wyk]

Hey guys,

I got this guy that's keen on either full time, part time, or hourly work. I'm not really sure what we *should* be paying him if we consider taking him on. I'm thinking on a monthly basis would be better.

What are the general rates for hourly contracting, monthly contracting, and full time employment for a dude like:

36 Years old from Jo'burg

15 Years IT of which

10 Years Web (PHP, ASP, JavaScript, etc)

2 Years Java  (Full Time Employed as Java Developer)

2 Years Java (Contracting from Home as Java Developer)

No university degree of formal training. Some programming in college, etc

The guy seems to be a front-end expert (AJAX / MVC / JQuery, etc)

Seems to know Struts, Spring, Hibernate, JPA, Java Web, etc.

Also seems to know quite a bit about SCRUM, etc.

What's the market related price (estimate) for someone like this (+/-). Much appreciated.

--

Mark van Wyk

Email: ma...@foxbomb.com

Mobile: 082 831 9227

"Before printing this email, please consider the animals and eat less of them"

[dudl...@gmail.com]

400ph?

regards
Dudley

---

From: Mark van Wyk <sparky...@gmail.com>

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Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:28:11 +0200

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Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Market Related Salary

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[Louis Botes]

Hi Mark,

It seems you have not had many responses on this topic I also find myself constantly battling with.

From my side, if I find a coder that will/can:

1.  Think of ways to achieve results instead of tell me why my ideas are bad

2.  Be Flexible

3.  Meet deadlines no matter what

4.  Write documentation and explain his/her ideas in a language our MD (sales background) can understand

5.  Interact with customers

6.  Learn new languages faster than I can

I would pay them a bloody fortune.  If not, hear them out on what they want. Decide what you would need to see for that kind of money to ensure it actually becomes an asset and not a liability, set it as the target in a properly controlled probation setup, and don't be hesitant to fire them if you have to.

But then again, I am known as a terribly arrogant, synical person to work for/with, so take what you will from it.  All I am saying is, if a coder is good, and looking for a job, it has to fit both ways, they need to want your company as bad as you want their skills, if this is the case, go for those big values you always see at the top range of those salary surveys, it will pay for itself. If not. Well, message me off-list for a monthly figure.

--  Louis Botes Support +27 (0) 83 307 9512 Office     +27 (0) 21 488 3940 Fax          +27 (0) 21 422 0597 Mobile +27 (0) 82 907 0980 www.evosat.com P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

From: Mark van Wyk <sparky...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: CT Jug <ctjug...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:28:11 +0200
To: CT Jug <ctjug...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Market Related Salary

[dudl...@gmail.com]

Agreed, it all comes down to delivering the goods. I know developers that have credentials and certification to kingdom come but they couldn't actually deliver, or even formulate a plan for that matter.

Then I know guys who come from completely opposite backgrounds and just get s *** done.

regards
Dudley

---

From: Louis Botes <louis...@evosat.com>

Sender: ctjug...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 21:51:12 +0200

To: CT Jug<ctjug...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: ctjug...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [CTJUG Forum] Market Related Salary

[Louis Botes]

More or less exactly my point.

You don't learn to write code, or rather, you don't learn to deliver solutions through certificates/diplomas/degrees, sometimes not even through experience.  Its a personality thing, combined with the types of work done previously.

Ultimately, I adopted the approach that every interview I do lasts 10 minutes, then, if I like your thinking, you get an actual interview which lasts three months, deliver, or don't. If you deliver money is, within reason, no object.

--  Louis Botes Support +27 (0) 83 307 9512 Office     +27 (0) 21 488 3940 Fax          +27 (0) 21 422 0597 Mobile +27 (0) 82 907 0980 www.evosat.com P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

[Dion Dodgen]

+1 with small caveat on delivery -> no quality or sensible design compromises.

>
> Agreed, it all comes down to delivering the goods. I know developers that
> have credentials and certification to kingdom come but they couldn't
> actually deliver, or even formulate a plan for that matter.
>
> Then I know guys who come from completely opposite backgrounds and just get
> s *** done.
>
>
> regards
> Dudley
>
>

> www.evosat.com <http://www.evosat.com/>

> Email: ma...@foxbomb.com
> Mobile: 082 831 9227 <tel:082%20831%209227>

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Kind Regards,
Dion

[Louis Botes]

I think one thing I should be clear on - delivery != rush job. It is
possible to write sensible code and deliver the results against a
deadline, many coders can get started, how many can truly complete what
they started? That¹s the delivery thing I was getting at.

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Louis Botes

Support +27 (0) 83 307 9512
Office +27 (0) 21 488 3940
Fax +27 (0) 21 422 0597
Mobile +27 (0) 82 907 0980

www.evosat.com <http://www.evosat.com/>

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[Mike]

On 31/08/2011 22:02, Louis Botes wrote:

> Ultimately, I adopted the approach that every interview I do lasts 10
> minutes, then, if I like your thinking, you get an actual interview

I am all too often shocked and bewildered by companies that will hire
programmers without actually having them write code. All the talking and
CV-goodness in the world is no substitute for me seeing you code.
Prefereably pairing with me or one of the org's devs.

Yet it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Weird.
--
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http://mikro2nd.net/blog/planb/
http://mikro2nd.net/blog/mike/

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[Louis Botes]

Like I mentioned.

Interview lasts 10 minutes, then the actual interview starts, 3 month
probation, write code and work in our environment. Only way to know.

I should have mentioned that I always include a brief bit of code to write
as part of the initial interview process. However it is shocking how many
people I have seen for interviews that just won't bother to complete it.
Bear in mind, I allow them to do the coding in their own time, not while
sitting in my office, and it is shocking how many don't have the
discipline to see this bit through.

--

Louis Botes

Support +27 (0) 83 307 9512
Office +27 (0) 21 488 3940
Fax +27 (0) 21 422 0597
Mobile +27 (0) 82 907 0980

www.evosat.com <http://www.evosat.com/>

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[Mark van Wyk]

I think that's probably the best indication!!

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Mark van Wyk

Email: ma...@foxbomb.com

Mobile: 082 831 9227