Crunchy Pi - crunchy-discuss

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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 19:49:20 -0400
Message-ID: <CAGMu_=ozXKyLMNprQEazM8cm1HY9EXEXtixMsEEv_-b+_zG...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [crunchy-discuss] Re: Crunchy Pi
From: Andre Roberge <andre.robe...@gmail.com>
To: crunchy-discuss@googlegroups.com
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On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:19 PM, dextrus <andy.b...@port.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'm impressed and a bit non-plussed! Talk about customer service!
>
> I'd obviously prefer you to make a change such as this.


Ok, I'll do it ... once I get a better idea of exactly how it should appear=
.


> I could hack
> it I suppose, but I don't know enough to do anything elegant and as
> you said, I'd then have a limited release distro and I want to see
> Crunchy on every Rpi.

No problem! ;-)


> However I'm concerned that having dismissed the
> idea, you would be willing to entertain the idea now albeit with
> caveats. I don't agree with your stance myself, but I think it should
> be discussed a bit more perhaps. In short, I feel a bit guilty now,
> and if anyone else is alive here, perhaps we could have a discussion
> about hidden code?


In some ways, Crunchy is "mature" ...  in that it does what it needs to do
and discussions (and development) are pretty much dead these days.  There's
been some interesting experiments done recently (i.e. someone taught a
course with Crunchy hosted on Amazon's cloud so that no install was
required from students) but nothing discussed on this list.

Now, as to hidden code...  Crunchy can be used by anyone to browse, and
execute, code found on the web.  In doing so, Crunchy breaks the sandbox
erected by the browser, and can execute arbitrary code ... even things like
"rm *"  (or "del *.*") with no safeguards other than requiring the user to
press either a button or "enter" to execute the code displayed on the
browser.

Imagine if one could hide some code (like "rm *) and have an unsuspecting
user execute it...

For this reason, I (mostly - with the help of others) went to great lengths
to ensure that no malicious code could be inserted and executed without the
Crunchy user getting the opportunity to see it first.


Note: In my perfect world, it wouldn't be hidden,
> but conditionally folded.. but my talks on the Geany forum and sniffs
> around Scintilla made me realize this isn't straight-forward at all.
>

Crunchy uses Editarea as its basic editor and Editarea does not support
code folding.   In my most recent project, I have moved away from using
Editarea, since it appears to be a bit stagnant (and sometimes buggy) and I
use Codemirror instead, which apparently support code
folding<http://codemirror.net/demo/folding.html>
.

Hidden code via code folding still gives, in theory, the opportunity to the
user to look at it first to ensure that no malicious code will be executed.
 So, I could certainly see this as being acceptable.  From a pedagogical
point of view, I understand perfectly the idea of hiding a whole mess of
code to a beginner so  that he/she can focus on the basics being displayed.

If you could give a more concrete example of what you'd like to see (a
proto-test page would be ideal), I could probably get a working prototype
in less than a day of coding.  These days, my schedule is rather flexible
so it should not be too difficult to find the time to do it - once I have a
better idea.


>
> I'll be in touch about the other subject!
>
Great.

>
> Thanks Andr=E9
>
> My pleasure! :-)

Andr=E9


> /Andy
>
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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:19 PM, dextrus =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:andy.b...@port.ac.uk">andy.bain@por=
t.ac.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I&#39;m impressed and a bit non-plussed! Talk about customer service!<br>
<br>
I&#39;d obviously prefer you to make a change such as this. </blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>Ok, I&#39;ll do it ... once I get a better idea of exactl=
y how it should appear.</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I could hack<br>
it I suppose, but I don&#39;t know enough to do anything elegant and as<br>
you said, I&#39;d then have a limited release distro and I want to see<br>
Crunchy on every Rpi. </blockquote><div>No problem! ;-)</div><div>=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">However I&#39;m concerned that having dismis=
sed the<br>

idea, you would be willing to entertain the idea now albeit with<br>
caveats. I don&#39;t agree with your stance myself, but I think it should<b=
r>
be discussed a bit more perhaps. In short, I feel a bit guilty now,<br>
and if anyone else is alive here, perhaps we could have a discussion<br>
about hidden code? </blockquote><div><br></div><div>In some ways, Crunchy i=
s &quot;mature&quot; ... =A0in that it does what it needs to do and discuss=
ions (and development) are pretty much dead these days. =A0There&#39;s been=
 some interesting experiments done recently (i.e. someone taught a course w=
ith Crunchy hosted on Amazon&#39;s cloud so that no install was required fr=
om students) but nothing discussed on this list.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Now, as to hidden code... =A0Crunchy can be used by any=
one to browse, and execute, code found on the web. =A0In doing so, Crunchy =
breaks the sandbox erected by the browser, and can execute arbitrary code .=
.. even things like &quot;rm *&quot; =A0(or &quot;del *.*&quot;) with no sa=
feguards other than requiring the user to press either a button or &quot;en=
ter&quot; to execute the code displayed on the browser.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Imagine if one could hide some code (like &quot;rm *) a=
nd have an unsuspecting user execute it... =A0=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
For this reason, I (mostly - with the help of others) went to great lengths=
 to ensure that no malicious code could be inserted and executed without th=
e Crunchy user getting the opportunity to see it first.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Note: In my pe=
rfect world, it wouldn&#39;t be hidden,<br>
but conditionally folded.. but my talks on the Geany forum and sniffs<br>
around Scintilla made me realize this isn&#39;t straight-forward at all.<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Crunchy uses Editarea as its basic editor=
 and Editarea does not support code folding. =A0 In my most recent project,=
 I have moved away from using Editarea, since it appears to be a bit stagna=
nt (and sometimes buggy) and I use Codemirror instead, <a href=3D"http://co=
demirror.net/demo/folding.html">which apparently support code folding</a>.<=
/div>
<div><br></div><div>Hidden code via code folding still gives, in theory, th=
e opportunity to the user to look at it first to ensure that no malicious c=
ode will be executed. =A0So, I could certainly see this as being acceptable=
. =A0From a pedagogical point of view, I understand perfectly the idea of h=
iding a whole mess of code to a beginner so =A0that he/she can focus on the=
 basics being displayed.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you could give a more concrete example of what you&#=
39;d like to see (a proto-test page would be ideal), I could probably get a=
 working prototype in less than a day of coding. =A0These days, my schedule=
 is rather flexible so it should not be too difficult to find the time to d=
o it - once I have a better idea.</div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I&#39;ll be in touch about the other subject!<br></blockquote><div>Great.=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Thanks Andr=E9<br>
<br></blockquote><div>My pleasure! :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Andr=E9</di=
v><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
/Andy<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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