Cromemco CLD
bah
Does anyone have any information on the Cromemco CLD - 8'' Disk
Drive? I was reading the Release 6 C-10 Computer User Manual and it
mentions the CLD, though only shows a line sketch of the device. In
release 6 of CDOS (v3.07) there was a change that allowed up to 4 disk
drives, although only 2 CFD (the 5'' drives) due to the CFD's getting
power from the C-10, while the CLD's had there own power supply. I
would be interested if any one has the installation manual (023-9145)
and/or any other information. Or maybe as the release was around Nov
84 it in fact never went into production. Certainly by 1984 8''
drives were old tech, though they were able to handle 3 times as much
data as the 5'' drives. Anyway appreciate any info even rumour.
Thanks for your time
Brett
Bill Sudbrink
> In release 6 of CDOS (v3.07) there was a change that
> allowed up to 4 disk drives
Hmm, this is an interesting assertion. I'm running RDOS 2.53
on a 16FDC and booting to CDOS 2.58. I'm running with four drives,
A and B are eight inch Shugart SA851s, C and D are five and a quarter
Tandons. All four are recognized in CDOS and any of the four will
boot from RDOS.
I think I have an earlier CDOS (2.27?) around here somewhere and I
don't recall a two drive limitation in it. I imagine the restriction
you mention was hardware only. Sometimes, Cromemco's documentation
could get a little muddled.
Bill S.
bah
Hi Bill,
Yes, from the docs I do have, the 2 drive (2 5" drives) limitation
was a power thing of the C10 only. Pre v3.07 I think they must have
nobbled it to 2 5" drives due to this power limitation (remembering
that the CDOS of the C10 was always a modified version of ther
standard CDOS for there S100 systems). With the v3.07 release I
believe they fixed it, but only because the new CLD drives had there
own supply. What puzzles me is that I have never seen the fabled CLD
drives. My suspicion is that they never went into production as it was
late 1984. That said, a parts list on the web mentions an installation
manual. I have access to some 8" drives, so I might try and hook one
up to see. If the CLD was like the CFD it was merely a standard drive
encased in a cream Cromemco shell, so any standard 8" "should" work.
As it plugs into the same port as the 5" drives all the pins
assignments are known.
Thanks
Brett
Bill Sudbrink
> (remembering that the CDOS of the C10 was always a modified version
> of ther standard CDOS for there S100 systems).
Really! Well, I learn something new every day. I always
assumed that the C10 hardware was 100% compatible with their
S-100 offerings and that they just ran "normal" CDOS on it.
I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever encounter a C10
boot disk.
Sorry for the confusion,
Bill
MikeS
I suspect parts of that "parts list on the web" might have originated with
me; I don't know if there was an installation 'manual' per se, but tech
bulletin #023-9145 goes into a fair bit of detail on the procedure and 64FDC
mods required to use it with the S-100 Systems One/100 & Three/300, as well
as the C-10A, so I would suppose that the CLD did in fact exist. As a matter
of interest, the external drive adapters in the System 300 also had both
34-pin and 50-pin internal headers connecting to the FDC.
For the C-10A it merely says to plug it in and tighten the screws; it also
mentions a limit of four drives, but nothing about the allowable mix. The
C-10 manual, which does not mention 8" drives, says you can only attach 2
5-1/4" drives; as you say, that makes sense since, unlike the CLD, the CFD
and CTD draw their power from the system.
BTW, since there was no real interest when I mentioned them a couple of
times way back when, most of the C-10 manuals were recycled; since shipping
is so expensive these days and most things are on the web anyway I'll
probably be throwing out the rest of my spare Cromemco manuals one day soon
as well, unless someone has a specific request.
mike
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Nigel Williams
> probably be throwing out the rest of my spare Cromemco manuals one day soon
> as well, unless someone has a specific request.
Is there a list please? I would happily pay the ruinous shipping costs
to have a couple of real Cromemco manuals to liven up the display of
my System 3 (for which I now have some modern switching power supplies
ready to install and soon(!) hope to light it up).
Michael George Hart
I, the unwilling, was lead by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing
Sent from my iPad
MikeS
There is a list, but it's out of date and I also have to decide what to keep
in case I sell a system or two; the C10 manuals were easy since I don't have
anything they relate to.
I'll keep you posted when I have an accurate list; thanks for your interest.
Good luck with your System 3, Nige; I think I asked you before, but why
replace the PS? I'd have thought it would be easier to repair whatever the
problems are than to adapt modern supplies...
mike
B Degnan
bah
Thanks for the info on the CLD - I am glad in many ways that they
did in fact make it. I also plugged in 3 CFD's into my C-10 and all
worked, so even though Cromemco says only 2 are allowed, it seems
there is nothing in the CDOS code that limits it (only the power).
Maybe because I am using the 240V (220V I think) version of the C-10
then I might get a bit more power than a 110V version (? pure
speculation).
In regards to the CDOS versions my understanding is that the C-10 CDOS
was different than the S-100, but only in that the CBIOS part was
"fixed". In the S-100 versions there was the CDOSGEN program that
could make a new CDOS based on the S-100 configuration (what cards you
had etc). In the C-10 there was no CDOSGEN as the parts are fixed, eg
screen/keyboard/everything. One thing that does seem to have occurred
though, is that the C-10 version was updated, while the S-100 was
not. Please correct if wrong, but I believe that the last version of
CDOS for the S-100's was v2.58, while for the C-10 there was a v2.65
and the last v3.07. The v3.07 was put in ROM and so really specific
to the C-10. They did improve several things in v3.07 which surprises
me that a new S-100 version was not released. I particular C/PM
compatibility that allowed dBase 3 to work. Maybe by that time they
wanted to concentrate on CROMIX/UNIX instead of CDOS,
Mike,
The C-10 User manuals pre update 6 did, as you say, not mention the
8'' drives. In release 6 they republished the manuals (it seems all
of them though I only have the User Manual, Structured Basic and
WriteMaster), and this is where the CLD drives are mentioned, and the
power limitations etc. If they were specific for the C-10 then, yes,
it would be a simple matter of screwing the IEEE488 connector into the
drive socket (it daisy chains), which is why the instructions for
adding them to say a System 1/3 would require some adapter.
If anyone has the technotes on C-10 specifics I would appreciate any
scans if possible. Especially the really interesting ones like:
"Installing New Video Chip for C-5, C-10, C-10A", #023-9217
Thanks
Brett
MikeS
From: "bah" <br...@getdata.com>
To: "Cromemco" <crom...@googlegroups.com>
If anyone has the technotes on C-10 specifics I would appreciate any
scans if possible. Especially the really interesting ones like:
"Installing New Video Chip for C-5, C-10, C-10A", #023-9217
Thanks
Brett
---------
It doesn't say much; basically, "Replace video chip and two crystals with a
different video chip and crystals," with part #s and xtal frequencies.
.
bah
Boring indeed. My imagination was running wild with new fantastic
graphics capabilities. By any chance do you know the replacement part
numbers and xtals? It might be that there is a "faster" CRTC chip
that they used or something - though I can't find a plugin replacement
for the CRTC 8275 (Intel). It might be just a technote if something
goes wrong with it. Thanks for the info.
Brett
Nigel Williams
> Good luck with your System 3, Nige; I think I asked you before, but why
> replace the PS? I'd have thought it would be easier to repair whatever the
> problems are than to adapt modern supplies...
I lack the skills needed to repair the linear PSU in the System 3 -
one of the large filter capacitors is bulging and with the bird's nest
tangle of wires, I am not sure I can readily swap out what is needed
and get it back together safely enough to avoid either shorting myself
out or the PSU or the cards. So I am taking the safe route until I can
better understand electronics and perhaps then I can resurrect the
original PSU. I will leave it intact so it can be restored.
B Degnan
I am working on a System Three PS too; the large 50V cap (IIRC) near the board that feeds the drives has a leaking
cap bubble, but the voltages are OK for the time being.
Bill
box...@gmail.com
While on the subject of software... anybody got or knows where to get SBASIC that will run in 64bit (on Windows 7)
I have a 32bit version that runs on all windows versions up to XP but not on WIN 7
So now I got a problem continuing to use my applications on upgraded WIN 7 computers
I try DOSBOX, SBASIC won't run in that neither under WIN7
Can anyone help?
Rgds
R Gustin
Tel: 0412991652
Fax: 1 512 8535095
Mail: 308 Pitt St Sydney 2000
e-mail: tru...@pacific.net.sg
---------------------------------------------
MikeS
on closer reading it's not an upgrade at all; apparently they changed
suppliers of the video chip and that required some changes on the respective
boards. Curiously, there was an earlier Tech Bulletin, #023-9207, which
listed some more complicated mods to the various boards, but apparently
023-9217 superseded it with the simple chip & crystal replacement.
Have you looked on Marcus's site if he has these bulletins? If not, I'll try
to get around to scanning them one of these days (when I can find the
scanner ;-)
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "bah" <br...@getdata.com>
To: "Cromemco" <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: Cromemco CLD
--
bah
Thanks for that bit of info. I searched majzel, but no luck. When
you have time I would appreciate a copy of the bulletins. The
replacement, without mods, seems unusual as I have not been able to
find a plug-in replacement for it - though as most of things are far
out of date and the CRT chip used was an obscure chip used in
terminals only, such info might not be searchable via a google
"replacement for CRTC 8275". Thanks for the info.
Ciao
Brett
Martin Eberhard
Martin
> cromemco+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
bah
Thanks for the offer, but no I am only after information about the
C-10. It is a computer enigma to me. I have several and all have
different motherboards, different rom's, different everythings. When
I saw a note in an XLS part list that mentioned replacing the CRT chip
in the C-10 I thought it might be an "upgrade" that I didn't know
about. The particular chip they used was not a graphics chip that we
nowadays think of, and even back then it was low grade - so any update
was welcome. Thanks for the offer though - it is good to know some
are still floating around.
Ciao
Brett
Martin Eberhard
The Z-1 seems to work fine now, and I've restored the Persci drive to working order. (Very pretty in its walnut case.) I can boot CDOS from .IMD files that I've found on the web. Maybe I'll try an early version of Cromix too.
I am on the lookout for just the right color TV for the Dazzler - good shape, the right vintage, etc. And I'll need a video converter - what was the color version of the Pixieverter called?
Cheers,
Martin
> > > cromemco+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.