Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12

[Stan Mordensky]

I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting, needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose that.

Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with, whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that concern. I'm curious what those out there think... 

The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems. 

Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth coastal air. I missed it greatly.

Cheers,
Stan

--
Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stan...@uoregon.edu |

[Stan Mordensky]

And I forgot to add, a shout out to Brad and Maren, who hooked me up with a new speedbar. The old one hang below me like rope and took a lot of effort to get to. The new one is as easy to access as lifting my leg.

Stan

[Travis Forsman]

Nice Stan and Ryan! Good to hear you guys had some longer flights off the south side!

 

As for the tree trimming, NO ONE IS TO TOUCH THE TWO TREES THAT REMAIN BELOW LAUNCH (or on the sides of the launch for that matter). I have a call into Tim at the moment and we don't want anyone screwing things up by cutting trees that haven't been ok'ed. It is my intention to ask to remove those trees but it is definitely not assured.

 

If you want to take hand pruners to cut the stubble on launch that is fine but don't cut anything bigger that the width of your pinkie finger now that the work crew supervisor is not there to ok things.

 

Thanks for your co-operation fellow flyers.

 

Travis

 

 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky <stan.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Stan Mordensky]

On that note, it was Tim we spoke with.

[Travis Forsman]

Just talked to Tim and the tree he was talking about had a "notched" look to it due to the removal of the trees next to it during our work crew. It was not the result of unauthorized trimming so we are in the clear.

 

As for the two trees below launch, we are NOT going to remove those at this time. Tim is going to have the "notched" tree removed on the lower right side of launch which should give us a few more degrees of launch direction to the SW so that is good news to report.

 

We still have a couple loads of debris up at the South launch and on the North launch trail that need to go to the recycle center so if anyone wants to volunteer for that it would be much appreciated. I am going to be really busy with work and travel here in the next few weeks but it is something that I have on my to do list and could definitely use some help with. If you are coming to fly the South launch soon you might consider bringing a truck and taking part of the pile with you... just check in with Tim or Glen at the visitors center and they can open the gate for you to the launch.

 

Thanks,

Travis  

[Steve Forslund]

On 9/19/2012 11:36 AM, Stan Mordensky wrote:
> but this experience raises a question I have held for a while... My
> old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of Paragliding"
> all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider is
> more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share
> that concern. I'm curious what those out there think...

Big difference between using full bar in thermic conditions and
pushing 1/4-1/2 in laminar air. Pushing full bar near the ground even
at the coast you are raising your chance of a frontal.

[Travis Forsman]

Btw, Tim was very excited to see the paragliders flying yesterday and mentioned that the regional manager (his boss) was there yesterday and commented on how clearing the area was a great idea and a good thing for the park. Great news! 

[Discover Paragliding!]

This sort of this actually is Totally Awesome! :-)

An abundance of Kudos to all involved!

Brad

See you up there,

Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
503-861-2772 (W) 503-440-0733 (c)

On 9/19/2012 11:18 AM, Travis Forsman wrote:

[Cloudsurf Paragliding]

Hey Stan,

Great flight report!

My understanding of modern wings is that some, if not most, (and definitely the well-designed ones) will get a bit more stable on 1/4-1/2 bar. Yes, the angle of attack (AoA) is lessened and therefore you are closer to a negative AoA which is what gives you the frontal/deflation. But your higher air speed will pressurize the wing more and make it more resistance to collapse. Also the moving forward of your center of pressure on the wing chord adds some stability too. (Think of the center of pressure being perhaps around the B line attachment points at trim and moving forward toward the A line attachment tabs while accelerated on speed bar. Maybe picture a piece of paper that is supported 1/3 back from its leading edge while flying through the air versus one that is supported at the leading edge - the one suspended from the leading edge remains more stable no matter what the AoA.) 

This is not the case with all wings - I think some older wings and less 'refined' wing manufacturers do not present this stabilizing characteristic on speed bar, they only get closer to a negative AoA which is of course what causes all deflations. Other wings such as 2-line comp wings will get very stable all the way up to full bar. 

The caveat with the increased stability is that you are now flying your souped-up tent through the air at a higher velocity. Any deflations that you do take will have more energetic consequences. 

Obviously the increased risk of deflations/frontals coupled with flying low is a bad combination. Sometimes it is imperative to increase your air speed and ground speed to escape a bad situation, even if you happen to be low at the time. Wouldn't it be great if you could fly fast and keep the wing from deflating? 

You can.

Most wings will react just fine to brake inputs while accelerated. You can active fly, catch deflations and steer with the brakes while on speed bar. There were several models of (mostly 3 line) gliders that had the nasty reputation of frontalling if you even touched the brakes while on full speed bar. I think this was a combination of the reflex profile of the wing being flattened as the brakes are pulled making the wing pitch forward and a sudden change in the center of pressure when the brakes were applied. If your wing was one of these touchy models (I don't have a list off the top of my head) you would probably know it because they were mostly EN D/ DHV2-3 wings from a few years ago. 

The biggest drawback with using the brakes on speed bar is you negate your increased speed with brake drag. As Jocky Sanderson says in Performance Flying "It's kind of like driving around with the handbrake on."

Instead of using the brakes to active fly or steer, use the rear risers. On a 4 riser glider you might not get much effect from using the D riser so experiment with using the Ds, Cs or both Cs and Ds. On a 3 riser glider the use of Cs to maintain a positive AoA, limit pitching or yawing movements and restore pressure to a deflating wing is very effective. On a 2 riser glider it is extremely effective. 

Practice flying with full bar and using the rear risers to active fly/steer while you're up high and have the altitude to recover from any mistakes. Then practice using the technique in more active air when you get the chance. Very competent comp pilots are likely preventing and catching 99.99 percent of deflations while still able to use the full range of their speed system in most conditions and at whatever altitude they are comfortable. 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky <stan.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

Let's go flying!

Matt

Cloudsurf Paragliding

cloudsurfparagliding.com

ma...@cloudsurfparagliding.com

503 877 4448 (w.)

206 679 1963 (c.)

[ceram...@gmail.com]

I'll add that it was great timing in meeting Tim and the director, who wandered up while we were up on launch.  It was surprisingly awesome to see how stoked Tim was about para/hang gliding and the use of launch, and it was nice to be able to express gratitude for the privilege to clear and maintain the site.  About which Tim mentioned an annual Yaquina Head "trail days" that we may be able to take part in to keep things dialed on launch.  Sounded good to me.  Hopefully there is some other interest. In mentioning the one notched tree, Tim didn't seem too upset about taking it out.  The director asked a few questions about how often the site would get used, what sorts of conditions were needed, and how these bag things fly.  I think it was big for Tim, and us pilots, that the site was in use when the director was touring about.

I think I mentioned it somewhere but if anyone comes down with a truck intent on helping clear the rest of the debris feel free to give me a call for a hand. 310-221-1862

Anyway, the wind was cycling with a 1knot difference between gusts and sustained and was uber smooth and consistent which made exploring the Head lots of fun.  My instrument showed 240' over launch and Stan was well above me for a majority of the flying.  The smoke from the paper mill in Toledo was just visible over Newport and the fog to the west some miles out maintained its position all day (something to maybe keep an eye on as it can roll in extremely quickly).  The tide was high, 9.7' I think, which still yielded an absurdly large and soft LZ(the same cannot be said for the beach north of the head).  

In summary; fun day, whales!  Thanks for waking me up Stan.

Cheers,

Ryan

--
--
Ryan

[John Saltveit]

One of the most useful strategies I've used in strong coastal flying is to visualize the lift band.  The shape of it changes with the size and shape of the hill.  Since Yaquina is not very tall, the lift band won't be too tall, so it's sort of like Ecola.  At Anderson's or Tillamook Head, it is very tall.  Visualize yourself shooting through the lift band and trying to stay on the upwind side of it for your flight.  Go up, go across, just don't hang out straight above (or going back!).  Enjoy your flight at a nice leisurely pace, then head out and land when you're tired.  It relaxes the mind to notice how much more you can move in a paraglider on the front side of a lift band.  In thermal conditions it is obviously much less predictable.  In a hang glider it is obviously not such an important thing to worry about.
John Saltveit

[David Cantrell]

If Stans glider could not penetrate in mild winds I suspect the lines may be shrunken up.

 

Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled out any forward penetration.

 

Food for thought.

 

Dave

From: John Saltveit <sk...@yahoo.com>
To: cp...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:27 PM
Subject: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12

[Bill Briskey]

Good point on the line length, Dave.  Although there might not be room, another thought might be to set up a little farther down the hill - it seems to me that you are experiencing the Venturi effect where the wind picks up near the surface as it is trying to get around the hill. This happens along the ridge below Pine Mt.  Many pilots have discovered that sometimes if they launch lower down the hill and work their way up but get close to the ground at the top of the ridge, the wind increases enough to make their speed bar useless.  Then the rodeo begins.

Your wing is "experienced" enough to have some line shrinkage, so as Dave suggested, find out what lengths they should be and measure them. I've heard that the humidity at the coast might especially induce shrinkage.  Brad?  Some input from others about how to stretch them to length would be helpful, too.  I've never done it myself.

Bill B

[Steve Forslund]

On 9/20/2012 9:11 AM, Bill Briskey wrote:

Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled out any forward penetration.

 But a great way to get down at the beach on a windy day!

SF

[Stan Mordensky]

Very in depth. Thanks for the info Matt. That's all very useful. I'll keep it in mind. 

Stan

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Cloudsurf Paragliding <ma...@cloudsurfparagliding.com> wrote:

[Stan Mordensky]

Bill - the Venturi effect was definitely on the top of my mind after all our talks about it at Peterson Butte and Pine Mountain. Unfortunately, the gravel at the top is the only good launchable area. The brambles/twigs/etc on the hillslope snag lines too easily. I imagine once these are cleared though, top launches can be avoided.

Dave - What are some other indications of line shrinkage? I have no problem kiting the wing and only bring that up because I have heard that kiting can become difficult if lines have shrunk.

Stan

[skf...@effectnet.com]

When lines shrink you get seated much quicker and typically get better service.

Kiting, launching, all your friends passing you and being able to reach up and grab your trailing edge.

SF

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Stan Mordensky" <stan.mo...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 11:44 pm
Subject: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12

[Steed family]

Kiting only becomes difficult on flat ground, and only with seriously shrunken rear lines.  Shrunken rear lines might actually help on a steep slope, though it won't fly very well once airborne.
 

---

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:44:00 -0700
Subject: Re: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12
From: stan.mo...@gmail.com
To: skf...@effectnet.com
CC: cp...@googlegroups.com