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Subject: Re: CPC: Re: question on pg landings
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:04:15 -0700
In-Reply-To: <5012A73E.5080...@effectnet.com>
Cc: Cascade Paragliding Club <cpcl@googlegroups.com>
References: <D5182DE08F69554DA644604178B94497134F30C...@NYP-MB02-CJ.FTMAIL.DIST.US.NEWYORKLIFE.COM> <5012A73E.5080...@effectnet.com>
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Steve's post says it all. I'll condense it. On final, keep your hands =
all the way up until you flare (except if you have to very very briefly =
control a surge.) The danger in this situation is not having enough =
forward speed in reserve, before you experience the gradient. So the =
most important part is not what you do when you experience the gradient; =
its what you did before. I guess one other detail is in carefully =
evaluating the details of the geometry of the lz for where the wind =
shadow is going to be least. When you do go through the gradient there =
is no avoiding the sink, but you will be able to control the landing =
with a good flare at the proper height. Steve's point about ground rush =
is also good. You still have to wait to flare. Finally there are wind =
speeds that are safe to fly in, but too strong for short, sheltered =
LZ's. Take that into account when you launch. The question of how to =
deal with a thermal in the LZ is really a different issue. -Pete
On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Steve Forslund wrote:
> On 7/26/2012 4:33 PM, Douglas W Jackson wrote:
>> Steve,
>> We have discussed landing through a gradient once, and I have been =
experiencing this more often than I would like without the results I =
prefer.
>> So, when I am coming in for a headwind landing, and at (whatever) =
altitude there is no wind or even sink, what is the action to take?
>> I recall that you mentioned to come in fast and keep the energy up, =
but how do you really control that?
>> =20
>> When setting up a landing, I feel that I am not slowing the glider in =
any way, but at that 25-20-15 foot range this is where I experience the =
sudden drop of speed or lift.
>> Any suggestions?
>> Thanks
>> Doug
>> =20
>> Douglas Jackson, CLTC
>> Agent, Business and Personal Insurance and Retirement Planning
>> New York Life Insurance Company =20
>> 500 Liberty Street SE, Suite 500 =20
>> Salem, OR 97301
>> Cell 541-981-9123
>> Fax 503-375-6302
>> <Mail Attachment.jpeg>
>> If you do not wish to receive email communications from New York Life =
please reply to this email, using the words "Opt Out" in the signature =
line. Please copy email_opt...@newyorklife.com
>> =20
>> New York Life Insurance, 51 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10010
>> =20
>=20
> Good question Doug I don't have much time for answering now but maybe =
others will chime in.=20
> I don't know, reach forward pretend I have a control bar and pull it =
in for speed? Seriously we are fortunate that our wings are so high and =
not subject to the more common and more severe gradient that hangs pass =
through when landing. Number one is to make sure you are at trim and not =
using too much brake when turning. Also with the ground coming up it is =
possible to get a bit of ground rush and start to slow the =
glider(don't!) as you seem to be speeding up as you drop into lighter =
wind(this is the biggest problem that I see way too often pilots coming =
in to land robbing the glider of airspeed, mush landings). I believe a =
proper downwind base final approach can minimize the need for turning =
low(more below on dbf). Steeper more aggressive turns can keep speed up =
but also have some increase in risk. Another advanced technique would be =
slow the glider and letting it surge and speed up THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE =
CORRECTLY! It can be very helpful with a short lz and when you are just =
boating around and can't seem to land, no fun hanging out in the danger =
zone!
>=20
> =46rom Dustin Martin posted on the AZHPA ;
>=20
> " Checking for turbulence
> ALWAYS overfly your touchdown spot and the area upwind right before =
you fly your pattern. This will save you some trouble or worse someday =
if you do it consistently. If you encounter lift, great, work it at =
least until it drifts by the LZ, then repeat. If you don't hit anything =
you can be confident in good LZ conditions. Nothing terrible is going to =
gather momentum in the short time it takes you to do a pattern. Never =
skip this step if it's still early enough to encounter lift. Make your =
pattern tight to ensure landing in the air that you just checked."
>=20
> link to the entire article on flying xc =
http://www.azhpa.org/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&view=3Darticle&id=3D10=
3:cross-country-flying-tips-by-dustin-martin&catid=3D46:pilot-stories
>=20
> sf
>=20
>=20
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Steve's post says it all. I'll condense it. On final, keep your hands =
all the way up until you flare (except if you have to very very briefly =
control a surge.) The danger in this situation is not having =
enough forward speed in reserve, before you experience the gradient. So =
the most important part is not what you do when you experience the =
gradient; its what you did before. I guess one other detail is in =
carefully evaluating the details of the geometry of the lz for where the =
wind shadow is going to be least. When you do go through the =
gradient there is no avoiding the sink, but you will be able to control =
the landing with a good flare at the proper height. Steve's point about =
ground rush is also good. You still have to wait to flare. =
Finally there are wind speeds that are safe to fly in, but too =
strong for short, sheltered LZ's. Take that into account when you =
launch. The question of how to deal with a thermal in the LZ is =
really a different issue. -Pete<div><br><div><div>On Jul 27, 2012, =
at 7:35 AM, Steve Forslund wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 7/26/2012 4:33 PM, Douglas W =
Jackson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:D5182DE08F69554DA644604178B94497134F30C...@NYP-MB02-CJ.FTMAIL.=
DIST.US.NEWYORKLIFE.COM" type=3D"cite">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
charset=3DISO-8859-1">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
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<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Steve,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have =
discussed landing through a
gradient once, and I have been experiencing this more often
than I would like without the results I =
prefer.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, when I am coming in for =
a headwind
landing, and at (whatever) altitude there is no wind or even
sink, what is the action to take?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">I recall that you mentioned to come in fast
and keep the energy up, but how do you really control =
that?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">When setting up a landing, I feel that I am
not slowing the glider in any way, but at that 25-20-15 foot
range this is where I experience the sudden drop of speed or
lift.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any =
suggestions?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Doug<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">Douglas
Jackson, CLTC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">Agent,
Business and Personal Insurance and Retirement =
Planning<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">New
York Life Insurance =
Company &=
nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">500
Liberty Street SE, Suite =
500  =
; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">Salem,
OR 97301<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">Cell
541-981-9123<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif"">Fax
503-375-6302<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
=
style=3D"font-family:"Cambria","serif""><span><Mail=
Attachment.jpeg></span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&qu=
ot;">If
you do not wish to receive email communications from New
York Life please reply to this email, using the words "Opt
Out" in the signature line. Please copy <a =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"mailto:email_opt...@newyorklife.com"><span =
style=3D"color:blue">email_opt...@newyorklife.com</span></a><u><o:p></o:p>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><span =
style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&qu=
ot;"><o:p><span =
style=3D"text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&qu=
ot;">New
York Life Insurance, 51 Madison Ave, New York, NY =
10010<u><o:p></o:p></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Good question Doug I don't have much time for answering now =
but
maybe others will chime in. <br>
I don't know, reach forward pretend I have a control bar and =
pull
it in for speed? Seriously we are fortunate that our wings are so
high and not subject to the more common and more severe gradient
that hangs pass through when landing. Number one is to make sure you
are at trim and not using too much brake when turning. Also with the
ground coming up it is possible to get a bit of ground rush and
start to slow the glider(don't!) as you seem to be speeding up as
you drop into lighter wind(this is the biggest problem that I see
way too often pilots coming in to land robbing the glider of
airspeed, mush landings). I believe a proper downwind base final
approach can minimize the need for turning low(more below on dbf).
Steeper more aggressive turns can keep speed up but also have some
increase in risk. Another advanced technique would be slow the
glider and letting it surge and speed up THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE
CORRECTLY! It can be very helpful with a short lz and when you are
just boating around and can't seem to land, no fun hanging out in
the danger zone!<br>
<br>
=46rom Dustin Martin posted on the AZHPA ;<br>
<br>
" Checking for turbulence<br>
ALWAYS overfly your touchdown spot and the area upwind right before
you fly your pattern. This will save you some trouble or worse
someday if you do it consistently. If you encounter lift, great,
work it at least until it drifts by the LZ, then repeat. If you
don't hit anything you can be confident in good LZ conditions.
Nothing terrible is going to gather momentum in the short time it
takes you to do a pattern. Never skip this step if it's still early
enough to encounter lift. Make your pattern tight to ensure landing
in the air that you just checked."<br>
<br>
link to the entire article on flying xc
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.azhpa.org/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&view=3Dart=
icle&id=3D103:cross-country-flying-tips-by-dustin-martin&catid=3D4=
6:pilot-stories">http://www.azhpa.org/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&v=
iew=3Darticle&id=3D103:cross-country-flying-tips-by-dustin-martin&=
catid=3D46:pilot-stories</a><br>
<br>
sf<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=
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Message from discussion CPC: Re: question on pg landings
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