I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles 6-10
mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan showed up
and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the rangers at
Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us on south
launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the flying
community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
that.
Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some penetration
without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed only to
find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so close
to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but instead
backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem moving out
in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the rest of
the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
coastal air. I missed it greatly.
Cheers,
Stan
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
And I forgot to add, a shout out to Brad and Maren, who hooked me up with a
new speedbar. The old one hang below me like rope and took a lot of effort
to get to. The new one is as easy to access as lifting my leg.
Stan
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky
<stan.morden...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
> that.
> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
> Cheers,
> Stan
> --
> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
Nice Stan and Ryan! Good to hear you guys had some longer flights off the
south side!
As for the tree trimming, NO ONE IS TO TOUCH THE TWO TREES THAT
REMAIN BELOW LAUNCH (or on the sides of the launch for that matter). I have
a call into Tim at the moment and we don't want anyone screwing things up
by cutting trees that haven't been ok'ed. It is my intention to ask to
remove those trees but it is definitely not assured.
If you want to take hand pruners to cut the stubble on launch that is fine
but don't cut anything bigger that the width of your pinkie finger now that
the work crew supervisor is not there to ok things.
Thanks for your co-operation fellow flyers.
Travis
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky
<stan.morden...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
> that.
> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
> Cheers,
> Stan
> --
> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Travis Forsman <pilot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nice Stan and Ryan! Good to hear you guys had some longer flights off the
> south side!
> As for the tree trimming, NO ONE IS TO TOUCH THE TWO TREES THAT
> REMAIN BELOW LAUNCH (or on the sides of the launch for that matter). I have
> a call into Tim at the moment and we don't want anyone screwing things up
> by cutting trees that haven't been ok'ed. It is my intention to ask to
> remove those trees but it is definitely not assured.
> If you want to take hand pruners to cut the stubble on launch that is fine
> but don't cut anything bigger that the width of your pinkie finger now that
> the work crew supervisor is not there to ok things.
> Thanks for your co-operation fellow flyers.
> Travis
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky <stan.morden...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
>> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
>> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
>> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
>> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
>> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
>> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
>> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
>> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
>> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
>> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
>> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
>> that.
>> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
>> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
>> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
>> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
>> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
>> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
>> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
>> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
>> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
>> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
>> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
>> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
>> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
>> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
>> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
>> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
>> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
>> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
>> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
>> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
>> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
>> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
>> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
>> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
>> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
>> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
>> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
>> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
>> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
>> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
>> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
>> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
>> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
>> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
>> Cheers,
>> Stan
>> --
>> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
>> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
Just talked to Tim and the tree he was talking about had a "notched" look
to it due to the removal of the trees next to it during our work crew. It
was not the result of unauthorized trimming so we are in the clear.
As for the two trees below launch, we are NOT going to remove those at this
time. Tim is going to have the "notched" tree removed on the lower right
side of launch which should give us a few more degrees of launch direction
to the SW so that is good news to report.
We still have a couple loads of debris up at the South launch and on
the North launch trail that need to go to the recycle center so if anyone
wants to volunteer for that it would be much appreciated. I am going to be
really busy with work and travel here in the next few weeks but it is
something that I have on my to do list and could definitely use some help
with. If you are coming to fly the South launch soon you might consider
bringing a truck and taking part of the pile with you... just check in with
Tim or Glen at the visitors center and they can open the gate for you to
the launch.
> but this experience raises a question I have held for a while... My > old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of Paragliding" > all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider is > more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with, > whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share > that concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
Big difference between using full bar in thermic conditions and pushing 1/4-1/2 in laminar air. Pushing full bar near the ground even at the coast you are raising your chance of a frontal.
Btw, Tim was very excited to see the paragliders flying yesterday and
mentioned that the regional manager (his boss) was there yesterday and
commented on how clearing the area was a great idea and a good thing for
the park. Great news!
> Btw, Tim was very excited to see the paragliders flying yesterday and > mentioned that the regional manager (his boss) was there yesterday and > commented on how clearing the area was a great idea and a good thing > for the park. Great news!
Hey Stan,
Great flight report!
My understanding of modern wings is that some, if not most, (and definitely
the well-designed ones) will get a bit more stable on 1/4-1/2 bar. Yes, the
angle of attack (AoA) is lessened and therefore you are closer to a
negative AoA which is what gives you the frontal/deflation. But your higher
air speed will pressurize the wing more and make it more resistance to
collapse. Also the moving forward of your center of pressure on the wing
chord adds some stability too. (Think of the center of pressure being
perhaps around the B line attachment points at trim and moving forward
toward the A line attachment tabs while accelerated on speed bar. Maybe
picture a piece of paper that is supported 1/3 back from its leading edge
while flying through the air versus one that is supported at the leading
edge - the one suspended from the leading edge remains more stable no
matter what the AoA.)
This is not the case with all wings - I think some older wings and less
'refined' wing manufacturers do not present this stabilizing characteristic
on speed bar, they only get closer to a negative AoA which is of course
what causes all deflations. Other wings such as 2-line comp wings will get
very stable all the way up to full bar.
The caveat with the increased stability is that you are now flying your
souped-up tent through the air at a higher velocity. Any deflations that
you do take will have more energetic consequences.
Obviously the increased risk of deflations/frontals coupled with flying low
is a bad combination. Sometimes it is imperative to increase your air speed
and ground speed to escape a bad situation, even if you happen to be low at
the time. Wouldn't it be great if you could fly fast and keep the wing from
deflating?
You can.
Most wings will react just fine to brake inputs while accelerated. You can
active fly, catch deflations and steer with the brakes while on speed bar.
There were several models of (mostly 3 line) gliders that had the nasty
reputation of frontalling if you even touched the brakes while on full
speed bar. I think this was a combination of the reflex profile of the wing
being flattened as the brakes are pulled making the wing pitch forward and
a sudden change in the center of pressure when the brakes were applied. If
your wing was one of these touchy models (I don't have a list off the top
of my head) you would probably know it because they were mostly EN D/
DHV2-3 wings from a few years ago.
The biggest drawback with using the brakes on speed bar is you negate your
increased speed with brake drag. As Jocky Sanderson says in Performance
Flying "It's kind of like driving around with the handbrake on."
Instead of using the brakes to active fly or steer, use the rear risers. On
a 4 riser glider you might not get much effect from using the D riser so
experiment with using the Ds, Cs or both Cs and Ds. On a 3 riser glider the
use of Cs to maintain a positive AoA, limit pitching or yawing movements
and restore pressure to a deflating wing is very effective. On a 2 riser
glider it is extremely effective.
Practice flying with full bar and using the rear risers to active fly/steer
while you're up high and have the altitude to recover from any mistakes.
Then practice using the technique in more active air when you get the
chance. Very competent comp pilots are likely preventing and catching 99.99
percent of deflations while still able to use the full range of their speed
system in most conditions and at whatever altitude they are comfortable.
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky
<stan.morden...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
> that.
> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
> Cheers,
> Stan
> --
> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
I'll add that it was great timing in meeting Tim and the director, who
wandered up while we were up on launch. It was surprisingly awesome to see
how stoked Tim was about para/hang gliding and the use of launch, and it
was nice to be able to express gratitude for the privilege to clear and
maintain the site. About which Tim mentioned an annual Yaquina Head "trail
days" that we may be able to take part in to keep things dialed on launch.
Sounded good to me. Hopefully there is some other interest. In mentioning
the one notched tree, Tim didn't seem too upset about taking it out. The
director asked a few questions about how often the site would get used,
what sorts of conditions were needed, and how these bag things fly. I
think it was big for Tim, and us pilots, that the site was in use when the
director was touring about.
I think I mentioned it somewhere but if anyone comes down with a truck
intent on helping clear the rest of the debris feel free to give me a call
for a hand. 310-221-1862
Anyway, the wind was cycling with a 1knot difference between gusts and
sustained and was uber smooth and consistent which made exploring the Head
lots of fun. My instrument showed 240' over launch and Stan was well above
me for a majority of the flying. The smoke from the paper mill in Toledo
was just visible over Newport and the fog to the west some miles out
maintained its position all day (something to maybe keep an eye on as it
can roll in extremely quickly). The tide was high, 9.7' I think, which
still yielded an absurdly large and soft LZ(the same cannot be said for the
beach north of the head).
In summary; fun day, whales! Thanks for waking me up Stan.
Cheers,
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Cloudsurf Paragliding <
m...@cloudsurfparagliding.com> wrote:
> Hey Stan,
> Great flight report!
> My understanding of modern wings is that some, if not most, (and
> definitely the well-designed ones) will get a bit more stable on 1/4-1/2
> bar. Yes, the angle of attack (AoA) is lessened and therefore you are
> closer to a negative AoA which is what gives you the frontal/deflation. But
> your higher air speed will pressurize the wing more and make it more
> resistance to collapse. Also the moving forward of your center of pressure
> on the wing chord adds some stability too. (Think of the center of pressure
> being perhaps around the B line attachment points at trim and moving
> forward toward the A line attachment tabs while accelerated on speed bar.
> Maybe picture a piece of paper that is supported 1/3 back from its leading
> edge while flying through the air versus one that is supported at the
> leading edge - the one suspended from the leading edge remains more stable
> no matter what the AoA.)
> This is not the case with all wings - I think some older wings and less
> 'refined' wing manufacturers do not present this stabilizing characteristic
> on speed bar, they only get closer to a negative AoA which is of course
> what causes all deflations. Other wings such as 2-line comp wings will get
> very stable all the way up to full bar.
> The caveat with the increased stability is that you are now flying your
> souped-up tent through the air at a higher velocity. Any deflations that
> you do take will have more energetic consequences.
> Obviously the increased risk of deflations/frontals coupled with flying
> low is a bad combination. Sometimes it is imperative to increase your air
> speed and ground speed to escape a bad situation, even if you happen to be
> low at the time. Wouldn't it be great if you could fly fast and keep the
> wing from deflating?
> You can.
> Most wings will react just fine to brake inputs while accelerated. You can
> active fly, catch deflations and steer with the brakes while on speed bar.
> There were several models of (mostly 3 line) gliders that had the nasty
> reputation of frontalling if you even touched the brakes while on full
> speed bar. I think this was a combination of the reflex profile of the wing
> being flattened as the brakes are pulled making the wing pitch forward and
> a sudden change in the center of pressure when the brakes were applied. If
> your wing was one of these touchy models (I don't have a list off the top
> of my head) you would probably know it because they were mostly EN D/
> DHV2-3 wings from a few years ago.
> The biggest drawback with using the brakes on speed bar is you negate your
> increased speed with brake drag. As Jocky Sanderson says in Performance
> Flying "It's kind of like driving around with the handbrake on."
> Instead of using the brakes to active fly or steer, use the rear risers.
> On a 4 riser glider you might not get much effect from using the D riser so
> experiment with using the Ds, Cs or both Cs and Ds. On a 3 riser glider the
> use of Cs to maintain a positive AoA, limit pitching or yawing movements
> and restore pressure to a deflating wing is very effective. On a 2 riser
> glider it is extremely effective.
> Practice flying with full bar and using the rear risers to active
> fly/steer while you're up high and have the altitude to recover from any
> mistakes. Then practice using the technique in more active air when you get
> the chance. Very competent comp pilots are likely preventing and catching
> 99.99 percent of deflations while still able to use the full range of their
> speed system in most conditions and at whatever altitude they are
> comfortable.
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky <stan.morden...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
>> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
>> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
>> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
>> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
>> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
>> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
>> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
>> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
>> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
>> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
>> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
>> that.
>> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
>> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
>> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
>> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
>> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
>> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
>> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
>> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
>> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
>> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
>> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
>> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
>> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
>> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
>> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
>> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
>> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
>> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
>> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
>> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
>> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
>> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
>> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
>> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
>> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
>> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
>> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
>> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
>> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
>> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
>> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
>> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
>> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
>> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
>> Cheers,
>> Stan
>> --
>> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
>> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
One of the most useful strategies I've used in strong coastal flying is to visualize the lift band. The shape of it changes with the size and shape of the hill. Since Yaquina is not very tall, the lift band won't be too tall, so it's sort of like Ecola. At Anderson's or Tillamook Head, it is very tall. Visualize yourself shooting through the lift band and trying to stay on the upwind side of it for your flight. Go up, go across, just don't hang out straight above (or going back!). Enjoy your flight at a nice leisurely pace, then head out and land when you're tired. It relaxes the mind to notice how much more you can move in a paraglider on the front side of a lift band. In thermal conditions it is obviously much less predictable. In a hang glider it is obviously not such an important thing to worry about. John Saltveit
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:36:01 AM UTC-7, Stan Mordensky wrote:
> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles > 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan > showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the > rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us > on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the > flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add > positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a > tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He > did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely > convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting, > needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one > friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose > that.
> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some > penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed > only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so > close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but > instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem > moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the > rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a > while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of > Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider > is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with, > whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that > concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the > highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour > flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon > after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The > wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the > afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find > myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a > step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a > generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front > of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere > between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with > a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his > wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of > getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in > the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us > enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and > spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been > flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I > hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last > flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth > coastal air. I missed it greatly.
> Cheers, > Stan
> -- > Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon | > Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stan...@uoregon.edu <javascript:> > |
If Stans glider could not penetrate in mild winds I suspect the lines may be shrunken up.
Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled out any forward penetration.
Food for thought.
Dave
________________________________ From: John Saltveit <sk...@yahoo.com> To: cpcl@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:27 PM Subject: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12
One of the most useful strategies I've used in strong coastal flying is to visualize the lift band. The shape of it changes with the size and shape of the hill. Since Yaquina is not very tall, the lift band won't be too tall, so it's sort of like Ecola. At Anderson's or Tillamook Head, it is very tall. Visualize yourself shooting through the lift band and trying to stay on the upwind side of it for your flight. Go up, go across, just don't hang out straight above (or going back!). Enjoy your flight at a nice leisurely pace, then head out and land when you're tired. It relaxes the mind to notice how much more you can move in a paraglider on the front side of a lift band. In thermal conditions it is obviously much less predictable. In a hang glider it is obviously not such an important thing to worry about. John Saltveit
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:36:01 AM UTC-7, Stan Mordensky wrote:
I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting, needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose that.
>Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with, whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
>The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of getting
stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
>Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth coastal air. I missed it greatly.
>Cheers, >Stan
>-- >Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon | >Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stan...@ uoregon.edu |
Good point on the line length, Dave. Although there might not be room, another thought might be to set up a little farther down the hill - it seems to me that you are experiencing the Venturi effect where the wind picks up near the surface as it is trying to get around the hill. This happens along the ridge below Pine Mt. Many pilots have discovered that sometimes if they launch lower down the hill and work their way up but get close to the ground at the top of the ridge, the wind increases enough to make their speed bar useless. Then the rodeo begins.
Your wing is "experienced" enough to have some line shrinkage, so as Dave suggested, find out what lengths they should be and measure them. I've heard that the humidity at the coast might especially induce shrinkage. Brad? Some input from others about how to stretch them to length would be helpful, too. I've never done it myself.
Bill B
On Sep 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, David Cantrell <davecantre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Stans glider could not penetrate in mild winds I suspect the lines may be shrunken up.
> Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled out any forward penetration.
> Food for thought.
> Dave
> From: John Saltveit <sk...@yahoo.com>
> To: cpcl@googlegroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:27 PM
> Subject: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12
> One of the most useful strategies I've used in strong coastal flying is to visualize the lift band. The shape of it changes with the size and shape of the hill. Since Yaquina is not very tall, the lift band won't be too tall, so it's sort of like Ecola. At Anderson's or Tillamook Head, it is very tall. Visualize yourself shooting through the lift band and trying to stay on the upwind side of it for your flight. Go up, go across, just don't hang out straight above (or going back!). Enjoy your flight at a nice leisurely pace, then head out and land when you're tired. It relaxes the mind to notice how much more you can move in a paraglider on the front side of a lift band. In thermal conditions it is obviously much less predictable. In a hang glider it is obviously not such an important thing to worry about.
> John Saltveit
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:36:01 AM UTC-7, Stan Mordensky wrote:
> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting, needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose that.
> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with, whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth coastal air. I missed it greatly.
> Cheers,
> Stan
> -- > Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stan...@ uoregon.edu |
> Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them > selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby > generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more > up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they > have just cancelled out any forward penetration.
But a great way to get down at the beach on a windy day!
m...@cloudsurfparagliding.com> wrote:
> Hey Stan,
> Great flight report!
> My understanding of modern wings is that some, if not most, (and
> definitely the well-designed ones) will get a bit more stable on 1/4-1/2
> bar. Yes, the angle of attack (AoA) is lessened and therefore you are
> closer to a negative AoA which is what gives you the frontal/deflation. But
> your higher air speed will pressurize the wing more and make it more
> resistance to collapse. Also the moving forward of your center of pressure
> on the wing chord adds some stability too. (Think of the center of pressure
> being perhaps around the B line attachment points at trim and moving
> forward toward the A line attachment tabs while accelerated on speed bar.
> Maybe picture a piece of paper that is supported 1/3 back from its leading
> edge while flying through the air versus one that is supported at the
> leading edge - the one suspended from the leading edge remains more stable
> no matter what the AoA.)
> This is not the case with all wings - I think some older wings and less
> 'refined' wing manufacturers do not present this stabilizing characteristic
> on speed bar, they only get closer to a negative AoA which is of course
> what causes all deflations. Other wings such as 2-line comp wings will get
> very stable all the way up to full bar.
> The caveat with the increased stability is that you are now flying your
> souped-up tent through the air at a higher velocity. Any deflations that
> you do take will have more energetic consequences.
> Obviously the increased risk of deflations/frontals coupled with flying
> low is a bad combination. Sometimes it is imperative to increase your air
> speed and ground speed to escape a bad situation, even if you happen to be
> low at the time. Wouldn't it be great if you could fly fast and keep the
> wing from deflating?
> You can.
> Most wings will react just fine to brake inputs while accelerated. You can
> active fly, catch deflations and steer with the brakes while on speed bar.
> There were several models of (mostly 3 line) gliders that had the nasty
> reputation of frontalling if you even touched the brakes while on full
> speed bar. I think this was a combination of the reflex profile of the wing
> being flattened as the brakes are pulled making the wing pitch forward and
> a sudden change in the center of pressure when the brakes were applied. If
> your wing was one of these touchy models (I don't have a list off the top
> of my head) you would probably know it because they were mostly EN D/
> DHV2-3 wings from a few years ago.
> The biggest drawback with using the brakes on speed bar is you negate your
> increased speed with brake drag. As Jocky Sanderson says in Performance
> Flying "It's kind of like driving around with the handbrake on."
> Instead of using the brakes to active fly or steer, use the rear risers.
> On a 4 riser glider you might not get much effect from using the D riser so
> experiment with using the Ds, Cs or both Cs and Ds. On a 3 riser glider the
> use of Cs to maintain a positive AoA, limit pitching or yawing movements
> and restore pressure to a deflating wing is very effective. On a 2 riser
> glider it is extremely effective.
> Practice flying with full bar and using the rear risers to active
> fly/steer while you're up high and have the altitude to recover from any
> mistakes. Then practice using the technique in more active air when you get
> the chance. Very competent comp pilots are likely preventing and catching
> 99.99 percent of deflations while still able to use the full range of their
> speed system in most conditions and at whatever altitude they are
> comfortable.
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stan Mordensky <stan.morden...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> I got to the Yaquina south launch around 11:30 and sat watching cycles
>> 6-10 mph rolling directly up launch for 90 minutes. In that time, Ryan
>> showed up and we talked about his flight from the day before. One of the
>> rangers at Yaquina Head, I'll try to find where I wrote this name, found us
>> on south launch. We chatted for a few. He said is enthused to have the
>> flying community returning to the Yaquina and thinks gliders above will add
>> positively to the ambiance of the recreational area. He then commented on a
>> tree that was trimmed that was not marked to be touched on the work day. He
>> did not seem too concerned about it, but I think he was trying to politely
>> convey that ANY changes to the launch, evening trimming, much less cutting,
>> needs to be OK'ed by the park staff. It looks like we have at least one
>> friend at Yaquina who wants to work with us, it would be a shame to lose
>> that.
>> Around 1-1:30 Ryan launched and reported steady winds with some
>> penetration without any speedbar input. I set up on the gravel and reversed
>> only to find myself plucked up before I could get my feet running. Being so
>> close to the ground, I immediately observed I was not moving forward, but
>> instead backward. I gave my speedbar light pressure and had no problem
>> moving out in front of the cape and never really had to use the bar for the
>> rest of the flight, but this experience raises a question I have held for a
>> while... My old instructor, my wing's manual, and our beloved "Art of
>> Paragliding" all warn of using bar close to the ground because the glider
>> is more susceptible to a frontal. However, the pilots I have spoken with,
>> whether they be from Pine Mountain, Hawaii, the coast, don't share that
>> concern. I'm curious what those out there think...
>> The lift band was not wide, but it wasn't extremely narrow. I think the
>> highest we got was a hundred or two hundred feet over launch. After an hour
>> flight, I landed at the very spacious south LZ with Ryan following soon
>> after. We returned to the launch around 3pm and observed conditions. The
>> wind was more consistent and had lost the cycle feeling from earlier in the
>> afternoon. It felt around 9 mph on launch. I reverse and turned to find
>> myself again gently plucked away before I could really take more than a
>> step. Again, I found myself moving backwards. I gradually applied a
>> generous helping of bar until I began working forward to be well in front
>> of the cape. Conditions were a bit stronger in the air. Without somewhere
>> between 1/4-1/2 bar, I wasn't penetrating. 1/2 bar let me move forward with
>> a glide ratio that kept the LZ very accessible. Ryan, who is heavier on his
>> wing than me on mine, launched. I told Ryan that if it showed any signs of
>> getting stronger I was getting down. After ~15 minutes of being parked in
>> the air, things mellowed out, I didn't need to use bar, and both of us
>> enjoyed another hour long flight. We watch whales round Yaquina head and
>> spoke with a few spectators at the LZ who were interested in tandems.
>> Long flight report for uneventful flights? Yes. But the site hasn't been
>> flown in a while, so I hope someone finds this info useful. Next S-SW day I
>> hope to return. It was my first coastal flight in 3 months with my last
>> flights being at Woodrat. It was nice to return to that super smooth
>> coastal air. I missed it greatly.
>> Cheers,
>> Stan
>> --
>> Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
>> Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
Bill - the Venturi effect was definitely on the top of my mind after all
our talks about it at Peterson Butte and Pine Mountain. Unfortunately, the
gravel at the top is the only good launchable area. The brambles/twigs/etc
on the hillslope snag lines too easily. I imagine once these are cleared
though, top launches can be avoided.
Dave - What are some other indications of line shrinkage? I have no problem
kiting the wing and only bring that up because I have heard that kiting can
become difficult if lines have shrunk.
Stan
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Steve Forslund <skf...@effectnet.com>wrote:
> On 9/20/2012 9:11 AM, Bill Briskey wrote:
> Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them
> selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby
> generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and
> even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled
> out any forward penetration.
> But a great way to get down at the beach on a windy day!
> SF
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
Bill - the Venturi effect was definitely on the top of my mind after all our talks about it at Peterson Butte and Pine Mountain. Unfortunately, the gravel at the top is the only good launchable area. The brambles/twigs/etc on the hillslope snag lines too easily. I imagine once these are cleared though, top launches can be avoided.
Dave - What are some other indications of line shrinkage? I have no problem kiting the wing and only bring that up because I have heard that kiting can become difficult if lines have shrunk.
Stan
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Steve Forslund <skf...@effectnet.com>wrote:
> On 9/20/2012 9:11 AM, Bill Briskey wrote:
> Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them > selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby > generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and > even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled > out any forward penetration.
> But a great way to get down at the beach on a windy day!
> SF
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon | Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
Kiting only becomes difficult on flat ground, and only with seriously shrunken rear lines. Shrunken rear lines might actually help on a steep slope, though it won't fly very well once airborne.
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:44:00 -0700
Subject: Re: CPC: Re: Yaquina Head flight report from 9-18-12
From: stan.morden...@gmail.com
To: skf...@effectnet.com
CC: cpcl@googlegroups.com
Bill - the Venturi effect was definitely on the top of my mind after all our talks about it at Peterson Butte and Pine Mountain. Unfortunately, the gravel at the top is the only good launchable area. The brambles/twigs/etc on the hillslope snag lines too easily. I imagine once these are cleared though, top launches can be avoided.
Dave - What are some other indications of line shrinkage? I have no problem kiting the wing and only bring that up because I have heard that kiting can become difficult if lines have shrunk.
Stan
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Steve Forslund <skf...@effectnet.com> wrote:
On 9/20/2012 9:11 AM, Bill Briskey wrote:
Also when pushing bar, the pilot should try to position them selves aerodynamically in the harness to create less profile, thereby generating less drag. I have seen some pilots tend to sit more up-right and even lean forward when pushing bar, not realizing they have just cancelled out any forward penetration.
But a great way to get down at the beach on a windy day!
SF
-- Stan Mordensky | M.S. Candidate | University of Oregon |
Eugene, OR 97403-1272 | (301)-639-8619 | stanl...@uoregon.edu |
