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From: "work@" <joseph.ben...@reigatehub.com>
To: coworking@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [Coworking] Re: is coworking & childcare a viable business
model?
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Hi Alex.your observations are close to our experience and insights.
We also identified your 3 categories and experimented with options targeted=
=20
(separately) at the last two categories. Agree that it certainly is=20
pseudo-luxury... and also an Emergency plan....as a result there is a very=
=20
low density of people in the category.=20
a Major City site might find enough people but a site with a catchment=20
below 500,000 people will be looking at circa 50 possibles and after=20
conversion <10 people.=20
... factor in normal turnover and it is hard to justify the ongoing risk,=
=20
because you will make more losses than gains.
On Sunday, October 7, 2012 6:57:17 PM UTC+1, Alex Hillman wrote:
>
> I'll toss out another couple of points/ideas/questions based on what I'v=
e=20
> learned from discussions with people who are really into this variation o=
f=20
> coworking.=20
>
> *Important caveat: I'm speaking WAY out of turn because I don't have=20
> kids. :)*
> Also, I admittedly haven't really spent ANY time in the coworking &=20
> childcare google group<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/coworking-=
and-childcare>,=20
> so apologies in advance if I'm duplicating anything that's said over ther=
e.=20
> Respect.
>
> To start, you can't answer a business viability question without asking: =
*who=20
> is the ideal customer (a.k.a. member), and why?*
> *
> *
> Here are a few ways to slice it for illustration, hardly an exhaustive=20
> list:
>
> - Parent who *wants childcare* and a place to work is a bonus
> - Parent who *wants a place to work* and childcare is a bonus
> - Parent who *wants a community of other parents as coworkers*, and=20
> the workplace & childcare are the bonus
>
> Childcare and coworking both fall into what I'd consider a "pseudo-luxury=
"=20
> category, in the fact that they provide an adjustment to quality-of-life,=
=20
> from "good" to "great", for those who can afford it. There are always=20
> free/commodity alternatives: working from home/cafes, leaving kids with=
=20
> friends/family, but those options come with known downsides as well.=20
> Another problem with the first two options is that when the need for=20
> childcare or coworking goes away, so does the customer.=20
>
> Option 3, the community-centric version, leaves the door open for a more=
=20
> sustainable model.=20
>
> More specifically, I'm increasingly convinced by a few people who push=20
> forward on coworking + childcare with the idea that the idea that the rea=
l=20
> unmet need is *working professional parents* *being lonely*, not the pain=
=20
> of raising kids while working for yourself or from home.=20
>
> I can only speak as an observer, but I have seen a good number of friends=
=20
> who have their first kid suddenly feel like they were on the outside of a=
=20
> circle of friends because they went from being the "working pro" to the=
=20
> "working pro who has kids", and then struggle to find others who share th=
at=20
> identity. Their kid-less coworkers don't want to talk about kid stuff.=20
> Meanwhile, parents have LOTS to share with each other when the main thing=
=20
> they have in common is the fact that they have kids. I get the feeling th=
at=20
> this is a common story that's not being told outside of a few circles.=20
>
> As more people enter the independent workforce, but don't really slow dow=
n=20
> on starting/growing their families, I can see an increasing opportunity f=
or=20
> this "sub community<http://alexhillman.com/theres-never-only-one-communit=
y>"=20
> to be given a special kind of club and clubhouse, either on its own or as=
a=20
> part of an existing coworking operation.=20
>
> Growing that kind of community will take some work, and the related=20
> offerings aren't completely clear to me (mostly, again, because I'm not t=
he=20
> customer). But I'm VERY interested in finding successful examples, so if=
=20
> you have them please share!
>
> -Alex
>
> --
> /ah
> indyhall.org
> coworking in philadelphia
> building a community? http://masterclass.indyhall.org
>
> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Frederick Kautz wrote:
>
> What region do you live in? this model might work in areas like silicon=
=20
> valley where people often migrate to with no family nearby and the cost o=
f=20
> child care can be very high.
> On Oct 6, 2012 2:36 PM, "work@" <joseph...@reigatehub.com <javascript:>>=
=20
> wrote:
>
> I'm one of two business in the Surrey, uk area that have trialed childcar=
e=20
> services along side coworking and the bottom line is while it is desirabl=
e=20
> as a concept, there is not a sustainable marketplace and it had other=20
> implications that weaken a pure coworking experience.=20
>
> We identified 3 core aspects.=20
>
> 1) the labour cost of the childcarers and lack of available people. (in=
=20
> the UK there are very specific regulations) Even with exceptions to the=
=20
> core obligations, we found ourselves spending so much of our time on the=
=20
> childcare ... we were becoming a nursery with places for people to work!
>
> 2) Population dynamics: Typical price is =C2=A335 per 4 hr session vs (=
min 2=20
> carers with insurances and expenses =C2=A320/hr each , cost of equipment =
and=20
> room hire (pro/rata 4hrs ) =C2=A350, other misc costs less than =C2=A350.=
)
>
> Means there needs to the +6 but not more than 12 children to break even.
>
> However.=20
> Site 1 achieved 4 children after marketing and running for 3 weeks, then=
=20
> didn't increase.=20
> Site 2 achieved 3 different people over 2 months
> .... then term time kicked in and no one came at all!
>
> in reflection, 1)Families are either too poor and need a different=20
> solution, 2) too rich and have a nanny/other full time carer, or 3) There=
=20
> is family/friend relationship so why pay for it!.... leaving only a=20
> handful of the possible people who would find it useful and they don't ge=
t=20
> enough value to make it a sustainable solution. ...Note the people who di=
d=20
> use it thought it to be an excellent service, so we ruled out quality as =
a=20
> cause of failure.=20
>
> 3) At site 2: We experienced coworkers leaving/not joining because it=20
> detracted from the experience... noise, extra rules, extra security. etc=
=20
> (most coworkers were ok with it but non were .. hey what a great idea!..=
=20
> most dealt with it as novel because it was a trial!.=20
> =20
>
> In conclusion.... if you have a vision for a nursery with a usp of a plac=
e=20
> to work ... it might work. If coworking is the vision ... keep it pure.=
=20
>
> best of luck if you disagree... and let me know how you solved the proble=
m=20
> without two buildings, two companies and two groups of staff.=20
>
> J @Reigatehub. =20
>
>
> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:13:51 PM UTC+1, Jessie wrote:
>
> Let's find out!=20
>
> The pairing of coworking & childcare seems to be a no-brainer, as=20
> obviously helpful to parents as those little clips that attach the pacifi=
er=20
> to baby clothes.=20
>
> The US has a few examples, but the jury is still out on on the success of=
=20
> the model as a whole. We need more test cases!=20
>
> I'm willing to try it, for the good of the order, but I can use your help=
.=20
> I have a coworking space, but am asking you to help me fund the creation =
of=20
> a childcare space.
>
> In Washington state, I'm required to become a fully licensed childcare=20
> provider which means extra cost to build out the space and meet the exact=
=20
> requirements of the law.
>
> Would you please contribute to my Indiegogo campaign today? Thank you!! <=
http://www.indiegogo.com/Ellies>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jessie Rymph
> Seattle, WA
>
> --=20
> Ellie's Coworking & Childcare
> ElliesCoworking.com <http://www.elliescoworking.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com
> =20
> =20
>
> --=20
> Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
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Hi Alex.your observations are close to our experience and insights.<br><br>=
We also identified your 3 categories and experimented with options targeted=
(separately) at the last two categories. Agree that it certainly is =
pseudo-luxury... and also an Emergency plan....as a result there is a very =
low density of people in the category. <br><br>a Major City site might find=
enough people but a site with a catchment below 500,000 people will be loo=
king at circa 50 possibles and after conversion <10 people. <br><br>... =
factor in normal turnover and it is hard to justify the ongoing risk, becau=
se you will make more losses than gains.<br><br>On Sunday, October 7, 2012 =
6:57:17 PM UTC+1, Alex Hillman wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex;">
<div>
I'll toss out another couple of points/ideas/questions =
based on what I've learned from discussions with people who are really into=
this variation of coworking. </div><div><br></div><div><b>Important c=
aveat: I'm speaking WAY out of turn because I don't have kids. :)</b></div>=
<div> Also, I admittedly haven't really spent ANY time in the <a href=
=3D"https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/coworking-and-childcare" target=
=3D"_blank">coworking & childcare google group</a>, so apologies in adv=
ance if I'm duplicating anything that's said over there. Respect.</div><div=
><br></div><div>To start, you can't answer a business viability question wi=
thout asking: <b>who is the ideal customer (a.k.a. member), and why?</b></d=
iv><div><b><br></b></div><div>Here are a few ways to slice it for illustrat=
ion, hardly an exhaustive list:</div><div><ul><li>Parent who <b>wants child=
care</b> and a place to work is a bonus</li><li>Parent who <b>wants a place=
to work</b> and childcare is a bonus</li><li>Parent who <b>wants a communi=
ty of other parents as coworkers</b>, and the workplace & childcare are=
the bonus</li></ul><div>Childcare and coworking both fall into what I'd co=
nsider a "pseudo-luxury" category, in the fact that they provide an adjustm=
ent to quality-of-life, from "good" to "great", for those who can afford it=
. There are always free/commodity alternatives: working from home/cafes, le=
aving kids with friends/family, but those options come with known downsides=
as well. Another problem with the first two options is that when the need =
for childcare or coworking goes away, so does the customer. </div><div=
><br></div><div>Option 3, the community-centric version, leaves the door op=
en for a more sustainable model. </div><div><br></div><div>More specif=
ically, I'm increasingly convinced by a few people who push forward on cowo=
rking + childcare with the idea that the idea that the real unmet need is <=
b>working professional parents</b> <b>being lonely</b>, not the pain of rai=
sing kids while working for yourself or from home. </div></div><div><b=
r></div><div>I can only speak as an observer, but I have seen a good number=
of friends who have their first kid suddenly feel like they were =
;on the outside of a circle of friends because they went from being the "wo=
rking pro" to the "working pro who has kids", and then struggle to find oth=
ers who share that identity. Their kid-less coworkers don't want to talk ab=
out kid stuff. Meanwhile, parents have LOTS to share with each other when t=
he main thing they have in common is the fact that they have kids. I get th=
e feeling that this is a common story that's not being told outside of a fe=
w circles. </div><div><br></div><div>As more people enter the independ=
ent workforce, but don't really slow down on starting/growing their familie=
s, I can see an increasing opportunity for this "<a href=3D"http://alexhill=
man.com/theres-never-only-one-community" target=3D"_blank">sub community</a=
>" to be given a special kind of club and clubhouse, either on its own or a=
s a part of an existing coworking operation. </div><div><br></div><div=
>Growing that kind of community will take some work, and the related offeri=
ngs aren't completely clear to me (mostly, again, because I'm not the custo=
mer). But I'm VERY interested in finding successful examples, so if you hav=
e them please share!</div><div><br></div><div>-Alex</div><div><br><div><div=
>--</div><div>/ah</div><div><a href=3D"http://indyhall.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">indyhall.org</a></div><div>coworking in philadelphia</div><div>building =
a community? <a href=3D"http://masterclass.indyhall.org" target=3D"_blank">=
http://masterclass.indyhall.<wbr>org</a></div></div></div>
=20
<p style=3D"color:#a0a0a8">On Sunday, October 7, 2012 at 12=
:50 PM, Frederick Kautz wrote:</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:solid;=
border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px">
<span><div><div><p>What region do you live in? this mod=
el might work in areas like silicon valley where people often migrate to wi=
th no family nearby and the cost of child care can be very high.</p>
<div>On Oct 6, 2012 2:36 PM, "work@" <<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"=
_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"ipAMFUDoFqQJ">joseph...@reigatehub.com</a>=
> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>
I'm one of two business in the Surrey, uk area that have trialed childcare =
services along side coworking and the bottom line is while it is desirable =
as a concept, there is not a sustainable marketplace and it had other impli=
cations that weaken a pure coworking experience. <br>
<br>We identified 3 core aspects. <br><br>1) the labour cost of the childca=
rers and lack of available people. (in the UK there are very specific regul=
ations) Even with exceptions to the core obligations, we found ourselves sp=
ending so much of our time on the childcare ... we were becoming a nursery =
with places for people to work!<br>
<br>2) Population dynamics: Typical price is =C2=A335 per 4 hr =
session vs ( min 2 carers with insurances and expenses =C2=A320/hr each , c=
ost of equipment and room hire (pro/rata 4hrs ) =C2=A350, other misc costs =
less than =C2=A350. )<br><br>
Means there needs to the +6 but not more than 12 children to break even.<br=
><br>However. <br>Site 1 achieved 4 children after marketing and running fo=
r 3 weeks, then didn't increase. <br>Site 2 achieved 3 different people ove=
r 2 months<br>
.... then term time kicked in and no one came at all!<br><br>in reflection,=
1)Families are either too poor and need a different solution, 2) too rich =
and have a nanny/other full time carer, or 3) There is family/friend relati=
onship so why pay for it!.... leaving only a handful of the possible =
people who would find it useful and they don't get enough value to make it =
a sustainable solution. ...Note the people who did use it thought it to be =
an excellent service, so we ruled out quality as a cause of failure. <br>
<br>3) At site 2: We experienced coworkers leaving/not joining because it d=
etracted from the experience... noise, extra rules, extra security. etc (mo=
st coworkers were ok with it but non were .. hey what a great idea!.. most =
dealt with it as novel because it was a trial!. <br>
<br><br>In conclusion.... if you have a vision for a nursery with a u=
sp of a place to work ... it might work. If coworking is the vision ... kee=
p it pure. <br><br>best of luck if you disagree... and let me know how you =
solved the problem without two buildings, two companies and two groups of s=
taff. <br>
<br>J @Reigatehub. <br><br><br>On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:13:51=
PM UTC+1, Jessie wrote:<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Let's find out! =
;<div>
<br></div><div>The pairing of coworking & childcare seems to be a no-br=
ainer, as obviously helpful to parents as those little clips that attach th=
e pacifier to baby clothes. </div><div>
<br></div><div>The US has a few examples, but the jury is still out on on t=
he success of the model as a whole. We need more test cases! </div><di=
v><br></div><div>I'm willing to try it, for the good of the order, but I ca=
n use your help. I have a coworking space, but am asking you to help me fun=
d the creation of a childcare space.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In Washington state, I'm required to become a fully lic=
ensed childcare provider which means extra cost to build out the space and =
meet the exact requirements of the law.</div><div><br></div><div>Would you =
please contribute to my <a href=3D"http://www.indiegogo.com/Ellies" target=
=3D"_blank">Indiegogo campaign today? Thank you!! </a></div>
<div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div><br></div><div>Jessie Rymph</=
div><div>Seattle, WA</div><div><br></div>-- <br>Ellie's Coworking & Chi=
ldcare<br><a href=3D"http://www.elliescoworking.com" target=3D"_blank">Elli=
esCoworking.com</a><br>
<br><br><br><br><br><br>
</div>
</div></blockquote><p></p>
-- <br>
Visit this forum on the web at <a href=3D"http://discuss.coworking.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://discuss.coworking.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
Visit this forum on the web at <a href=3D"http://discuss.coworking.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://discuss.coworking.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></span>
=20
=20
=20
=20
</blockquote>
=20
<div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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Message from discussion is coworking & childcare a viable business model?
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