.... where are they and how do I get their attention?
Hi Folks,
I assume that a lot of folks here are involved in managing various projects - particularly projects involving virtual teams spread across the net. So... I wonder if some of you might have an opinion to offer....
I've been working on some open source software to support virtual teams
and projects - putting some of the experiences and techniques I've
acquired over the years into code - and I'm trying to gather some
support via Kickstarter.
The thing is, I'm having a very hard time getting people to even visit
the project's web page - so far, only about 300 people have visited the
Kickstarter page, despite some serious attempts to spread the word
across various email lists, twitter, and so forth.
It's one thing if people were looking at the page and not contributing,
but I can't even seem to get people's attention - which suggestions one
or more of four things:
- nobody cares about project management (I hope this isn't the case - I
know administrivia isn't sexy, but an awful lot of people are working on
an awful lot of projects, and getting buried in mountains of paper,
email, phone calls, texts, meetings, and yellow stickies. I sure know
that I'm always looking for ways to declutter that side of my life)
- I'm not reaching people who care.
- I'm reaching people, but not getting their attention.
- I'm reaching people, getting their attention, but not providing enough
motivation to go the next step and click their mouse (on
So... I'd really welcome any feedback on the questions who cares about
project management & collaboration tools, how to reach them, and what
might motivate them enough to take a look at what I'm doing?
Thanks very much,
Miles Fidelman
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
Some feedback from me when I see that page:
Way too much text, I have no idea what the project is trying to do before I
get bored of reading. I don't get to the "Our Model Is Simple:" until 14
paragraphs into the page.
I look at the graphics and I get confused, too much going on.
What differentiates you from some of the other project
management/collaboration tools out there like Google Apps, Office 365,
Basecamp, etc? I see the graphic that shows a notebook and my mind
immediately goes to Microsoft OneNote and sharing notebooks via Skydrive.
There is also the issue that software products are the least funded group
on Kickstarter, physical products do much better for a variety of reasons.
Matt Arkin
President - ITligence Technology Solutions
CTO - Life Highlights Digital Memories, FullofApp
MVP - Microsoft
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Miles Fidelman
<mfidel...@meetinghouse.net>wrote:
> .... where are they and how do I get their attention?
> Hi Folks,
> I assume that a lot of folks here are involved in managing various
> projects - particularly projects involving virtual teams spread across the
> net. So... I wonder if some of you might have an opinion to offer....
> I've been working on some open source software to support virtual teams
> and projects - putting some of the experiences and techniques I've
> acquired over the years into code - and I'm trying to gather some
> support via Kickstarter.
> The thing is, I'm having a very hard time getting people to even visit
> the project's web page - so far, only about 300 people have visited the
> Kickstarter page, despite some serious attempts to spread the word
> across various email lists, twitter, and so forth.
> It's one thing if people were looking at the page and not contributing,
> but I can't even seem to get people's attention - which suggestions one
> or more of four things:
> - nobody cares about project management (I hope this isn't the case - I
> know administrivia isn't sexy, but an awful lot of people are working on
> an awful lot of projects, and getting buried in mountains of paper,
> email, phone calls, texts, meetings, and yellow stickies. I sure know
> that I'm always looking for ways to declutter that side of my life)
> - I'm not reaching people who care.
> - I'm reaching people, but not getting their attention.
> - I'm reaching people, getting their attention, but not providing enough
> motivation to go the next step and click their mouse (on
> So... I'd really welcome any feedback on the questions who cares about
> project management & collaboration tools, how to reach them, and what
> might motivate them enough to take a look at what I'm doing?
> Thanks very much,
> Miles Fidelman
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+unsubscribe@**
> googlegroups.com <coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/coworking?hl=en <http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en>.
I think that the truth is that the Kickstarter model is much more effective for physical goods & design oriented projects as Matthew alludes.
People still have a hard time putting money towards intangibles compared to pre-selling and effectively co-funding hard costs of mass production. People need to see - tangibly - what their money is going towards.
Games and films are an outlier because the psychology around entertainment and money is VERY different from utilities.
I think that your KS page could be more effective, but you've actually just chosen the wrong marketplace to crowd-fund your idea and you're not speaking to the people who actually care about these problems, as you've already deduced.
Rather than focus on an arts/creative/design audience, you'd be better off in front of a business or productivity-minded audience.
On Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Matthew Arkin wrote:
> Hi Miles,
> Some feedback from me when I see that page:
> Way too much text, I have no idea what the project is trying to do before I get bored of reading. I don't get to the "Our Model Is Simple:" until 14 paragraphs into the page.
> I look at the graphics and I get confused, too much going on.
> What differentiates you from some of the other project management/collaboration tools out there like Google Apps, Office 365, Basecamp, etc? I see the graphic that shows a notebook and my mind immediately goes to Microsoft OneNote and sharing notebooks via Skydrive.
> There is also the issue that software products are the least funded group on Kickstarter, physical products do much better for a variety of reasons.
> Matt Arkin
> President - ITligence Technology Solutions
> CTO - Life Highlights Digital Memories, FullofApp
> MVP - Microsoft
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Miles Fidelman <mfidel...@meetinghouse.net (mailto:mfidel...@meetinghouse.net)> wrote:
> > .... where are they and how do I get their attention?
> > Hi Folks,
> > I assume that a lot of folks here are involved in managing various projects - particularly projects involving virtual teams spread across the net. So... I wonder if some of you might have an opinion to offer....
> > I've been working on some open source software to support virtual teams
> > and projects - putting some of the experiences and techniques I've
> > acquired over the years into code - and I'm trying to gather some
> > support via Kickstarter.
> > The thing is, I'm having a very hard time getting people to even visit
> > the project's web page - so far, only about 300 people have visited the
> > Kickstarter page, despite some serious attempts to spread the word
> > across various email lists, twitter, and so forth.
> > It's one thing if people were looking at the page and not contributing,
> > but I can't even seem to get people's attention - which suggestions one
> > or more of four things:
> > - nobody cares about project management (I hope this isn't the case - I
> > know administrivia isn't sexy, but an awful lot of people are working on
> > an awful lot of projects, and getting buried in mountains of paper,
> > email, phone calls, texts, meetings, and yellow stickies. I sure know
> > that I'm always looking for ways to declutter that side of my life)
> > - I'm not reaching people who care.
> > - I'm reaching people, but not getting their attention.
> > - I'm reaching people, getting their attention, but not providing enough
> > motivation to go the next step and click their mouse (on
> > So... I'd really welcome any feedback on the questions who cares about
> > project management & collaboration tools, how to reach them, and what
> > might motivate them enough to take a look at what I'm doing?
> > Thanks very much,
> > Miles Fidelman
> > -- > > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> > In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com (mailto:coworking@googlegroups.com).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com).
> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
Thanks very much for your comments - they help a lot. As a quick response:
Matthew Arkin wrote:
> Way too much text, I have no idea what the project is trying to do > before I get bored of reading. I don't get to the "Our Model Is > Simple:" until 14 paragraphs into the page.
> I look at the graphics and I get confused, too much going on.
> What differentiates you from some of the other project > management/collaboration tools out there like Google Apps, Office 365, > Basecamp, etc? I see the graphic that shows a notebook and my mind > immediately goes to Microsoft OneNote and sharing notebooks via Skydrive.
Yeah... I've been having a real problem getting the message across simply, and I've focused more on the problem than the solution. Tell me if this helps at all:
I see three differentiators:
1. Simplicity. The essence of project management is keeping people on the same page - the same way that a script holds actors together, or sheet music holds an orchestra together. The core notion is to extend this to a networked environment - everyone has their own copy of a plan (which can be as simple as a list of action items) - and those copies are linked to each other. "Scribble" on your copy, and it propagates to other copies - Q&A, status updates, changes, ... - the same way that actors can huddle, and jot notes on their scripts.
2. Distributed & P2P: Local copies, linked by a peer-to-peer protocol.
In some sense, I see this as pretty close to linked spreadsheets, that actually work across the net, using open formats and protocols. Write a spreadsheet, email copies, updates propagate. (An awful lot of project management ends up being done on spreadsheets, used essentially as checklists.)
3. Open everything, running on existing platforms. HTML & JavaScript in a browser. Email for distribution, either RSS/Atom or XMPP to link document copies.
The problem really comes down to this: It's really easy to send out an email containing a list of action items. But... very quickly one has an inbox full of lots of followups - each update, question, etc. is another message - things get confused very quickly. With this model, the first message goes out by email, but the message is "smart" and addressable - replies can be applied automatically. (Like tracking changes in a Word document, rather than receiving a bunch of emails that say "change line 3, on page 5, to read .......").
> There is also the issue that software products are the least funded > group on Kickstarter, physical products do much better for a variety > of reasons.
Alex Hillman wrote:
> I think that the truth is that the Kickstarter model is much more > effective for physical goods & design oriented projects as Matthew > alludes.
> I think that your KS page could be more effective, but you've actually > just chosen the wrong marketplace to crowd-fund your idea and you're > not speaking to the people who actually care about these problems, as > you've already deduced.
> Rather than focus on an arts/creative/design audience, you'd be better > off in front of a business or productivity-minded audience.
It's pretty clear that the key to a successful kickstarter effort is driving people to the site (coverage by Wired or Gizmodo seems to do magic).
Having said that... any thoughts on email lists, LinkedIn Groups, specific blogs, and the like where "business and productivity-minded audiences" might congregate?
Thanks!
Miles
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
LightTable is: A) an outlier. Building anything on observations of outliers is a recipe for disaster
B) EXTREMELY niche. You're pitch is extremely broad. That's going to impact your sales in general, and even moreso at this stage.
Coverage helps for sure, but I don't think you've actually picked an audience to sell to. Do that, and you're entire formula changes.
On Sunday, August 5, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Hi Alex,
> Alex Hillman wrote:
> > I think that the truth is that the Kickstarter model is much more > > effective for physical goods & design oriented projects as Matthew > > alludes.
> > I think that your KS page could be more effective, but you've actually > > just chosen the wrong marketplace to crowd-fund your idea and you're > > not speaking to the people who actually care about these problems, as > > you've already deduced.
> > Rather than focus on an arts/creative/design audience, you'd be better > > off in front of a business or productivity-minded audience.
> It's pretty clear that the key to a successful kickstarter effort is > driving people to the site (coverage by Wired or Gizmodo seems to do magic).
> Having said that... any thoughts on email lists, LinkedIn Groups, > specific blogs, and the like where "business and productivity-minded > audiences" might congregate?
> Thanks!
> Miles
> -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
I think it's the message. I think of a wiki and evermore when I think
collaboration tools. How us your offering better/different? In this day and
age I think a simple short animation would be your best bet to covey your
message. No on wants to get bogged down reading how it will work and how
it's better than what is already out there. Show me ...
Good luck!
On Aug 4, 2012 9:15 PM, "Miles Fidelman" <mfidel...@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> .... where are they and how do I get their attention?
> Hi Folks,
> I assume that a lot of folks here are involved in managing various
projects - particularly projects involving virtual teams spread across the
net. So... I wonder if some of you might have an opinion to offer....
> I've been working on some open source software to support virtual teams
> and projects - putting some of the experiences and techniques I've
> acquired over the years into code - and I'm trying to gather some
> support via Kickstarter.
> The thing is, I'm having a very hard time getting people to even visit
> the project's web page - so far, only about 300 people have visited the
> Kickstarter page, despite some serious attempts to spread the word
> across various email lists, twitter, and so forth.
> It's one thing if people were looking at the page and not contributing,
> but I can't even seem to get people's attention - which suggestions one
> or more of four things:
> - nobody cares about project management (I hope this isn't the case - I
> know administrivia isn't sexy, but an awful lot of people are working on
> an awful lot of projects, and getting buried in mountains of paper,
> email, phone calls, texts, meetings, and yellow stickies. I sure know
> that I'm always looking for ways to declutter that side of my life)
> - I'm not reaching people who care.
> - I'm reaching people, but not getting their attention.
> - I'm reaching people, getting their attention, but not providing enough
> motivation to go the next step and click their mouse (on
> So... I'd really welcome any feedback on the questions who cares about
> project management & collaboration tools, how to reach them, and what
> might motivate them enough to take a look at what I'm doing?
> Thanks very much,
> Miles Fidelman
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> I think it's the message. I think of a wiki and evermore when I think > collaboration tools. How us your offering better/different? In this > day and age I think a simple short animation would be your best bet to > covey your message. No on wants to get bogged down reading how it will > work and how it's better than what is already out there. Show me ...
Thanks for the suggestion - kind of dovetails with a lot of the feedback I've been getting - and will make its way into the Kickstarter materials.
But even with the greatest presentation, I'm still stuck with the issue of how do I get people's attention in the first place? Part of it is message, but part of it is finding eyeballs to read the message and follow a link. Right now, under 300 folks have even clicked on the Kickstarter video - clearly I'm either reaching out to the wrong crowd, or I'm not grabbing enough attention to drive people to click and look further.
For me, the issue keeps coming back to:
- project management is a real pain, and it's gotten harder with virtual teams - it's easy if everyone can stand in front of a whiteboard every few days, but in these days of being spread around the net, and working multiple projects, it's a nightmare
- simple tools have gotten onerous - send out an action item list by email, and suddenly we're juggling 100s of messages, each one containing a question, an answer, a detail, a status update -- pulling together the big picture is a real pain
- one approach is to put everything on a central server - a Wiki, a Google Spreadsheet - but that has all the issues of requiring constant connectivity, and being tied to a vendor
- I keep seeing the simple answer being linked spreadsheets, but those don't really work across the net, and they're proprietary
Hence, I'm trying to build linked spreadsheets, that run in a browser, store as local files, and communicate via a peer-to-peer protocol.
I think it would be useful, nobody else is doing it, and the latest browsers make it doable. But... how to make it "sexy," and/or how to reach people who might get excited about the idea - that's a real stumbling block.
The standard approach - build it, put it out there, hope that people get excited by the product is the fallback; but that runs into having to do other work to pay the bills - hence the Kickstarter pitch to try to raise enough funds to dedicate myself to the project. Which brings me back to: Is there an audience, and how to get them to take a look.
And... more specifically, to what extent are folks involved in co-working feeling pain associated with managing virtual teams and projects?
Thanks,
Miles
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
Alex Hillman wrote:
> LightTable is:
> A) an outlier. Building anything on observations of outliers is a > recipe for disaster
Well... funded projects in the $50,000+ range are outliers on Kickstarter in general, but there are other software projects besides light table that have succeeded in raising significant amounts. I kind of like looking at outliers - you can learn a lot.
> B) EXTREMELY niche. You're pitch is extremely broad. That's going to > impact your sales in general, and even moreso at this stage.
> Coverage helps for sure, but I don't think you've actually picked an > audience to sell to. Do that, and you're entire formula changes.
Now that is certainly true. In one sense, "folks who manage projects" is a niche, and more so when one focuses on "folks who manage virtual projects with teams distributed across the net." In another sense,
this crosses lots of different niches - whether one is doing software development, product development, running a marketing campaign, organizing a flash performance, etc., the number of folks who worry about project management are a small subset. A common set of problems, but a dispersed audience.
Which brings me back to my questions of how to find and reach people for whom what I'm doing will be helpful. I have a sense that a lot of my audience can be found among the same folks who inhabit co-working spaces, but I'm not sure - hence my inquiry to this list.
Thanks again,
Miles
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
I've been involved in, or managed, projects with a variety of scopes (software, comedy shows, business projects, marketing, etc) for many many years. So, conceptually, I fall
into the category of people who care.
I like the idea of what you've proposed, but you made me work really hard to get at what it is.
The thing that will make me click on your link needs to be much more succinct, and either
talk about the pain I'm feeling or the benefits I'm going to get from supporting your projects.
Take a look at how some of the leading project management tools describe what they do,
such as Basecamp, Podio, Mavenlink, etc. Why is your tool more compelling than theirs?
Just to be clear, the pain I'm feeling when dealing w/ project management is that it's hard
to get to get people to use the project management tools that i've put in place because they
cater too much to a technical audience (trac, git), or require too much customization for
simple projects (Podio) or are too simplistic to let me do all PM tasks in one place (Basecamp).
The technical problem of keeping tasks synched across the network is among the least
of my worries, actually. My problem is finding a tool that's simple enough yet complete
enough to work for a technical and non-technical audience.
Here are some suggestions for your pitch:
- identify a particular person that has a particular problem (e.g. your customer demographic)
You might need to write a different invitation email based on whether you're sending it
to theater producers or web designers
- put your link at the top of your pitch, not only at the bottom of paragraphs of justification.
- find a Twitter-length description of your tool. Otherwise, you make it too hard for people
to share it. - Crete an executive summary (no more than one paragraph) that leaves me wanting more
Kickstarter and Indiegogo are really great tools for honing your marketing pitch, and they
provide some brutally honest feedback about its effectiveness. It may take you a couple
of iterations to get to where you want to be with this project.
> Alex Hillman wrote:
>> LightTable is:
>> A) an outlier. Building anything on observations of outliers is a recipe for disaster
> Well... funded projects in the $50,000+ range are outliers on Kickstarter in general, but there are other software projects besides light table that have succeeded in raising significant amounts. I kind of like looking at outliers - you can learn a lot.
>> B) EXTREMELY niche. You're pitch is extremely broad. That's going to impact your sales in general, and even moreso at this stage.
>> Coverage helps for sure, but I don't think you've actually picked an audience to sell to. Do that, and you're entire formula changes.
> Now that is certainly true. In one sense, "folks who manage projects" is a niche, and more so when one focuses on "folks who manage virtual projects with teams distributed across the net." In another sense, this crosses lots of different niches - whether one is doing software development, product development, running a marketing campaign, organizing a flash performance, etc., the number of folks who worry about project management are a small subset. A common set of problems, but a dispersed audience.
> Which brings me back to my questions of how to find and reach people for whom what I'm doing will be helpful. I have a sense that a lot of my audience can be found among the same folks who inhabit co-working spaces, but I'm not sure - hence my inquiry to this list.
> Thanks again,
> Miles
> -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> I've been involved in, or managed, projects with a variety of scopes > (software, comedy
> shows, business projects, marketing, etc) for many many years. So, > conceptually, I fall
> into the category of people who care.
Thank you very much for your comments! If I might ask, what else do you read (lists, blogs, etc.) that might be relevant?
> I like the idea of what you've proposed, but you made me work really > hard to get at what it is.
> The thing that will make me click on your link needs to be much more > succinct, and either
> talk about the pain I'm feeling or the benefits I'm going to get from > supporting your projects.
> Take a look at how some of the leading project management tools > describe what they do,
> such as Basecamp, Podio, Mavenlink, etc. Why is your tool more > compelling than theirs?
That's a great suggestion!
What I'm going for is simple + distributed + open.
The short form is that I've yet to see the combination of simple (e.g, spreadsheets) and distributed (e.g., Git). These days, everybody seems to be gravitating toward Google Spreadsheets as a way to share action items; I'm shooting for something more like:
- linked spreadsheets where the links actually work across the net
- running in a browser, linked by open, asynchronous protocols (no software to install, no vendor lock-in, updates flow when connected)
To an extent, my motivation comes from sending out action item lists in an email, only to be inundated by a huge follow-up thread - questions and answers, updates, comments, ..., each in its own message. I don't like going to a central wiki or Google Doc - what I want is for replies to the first email to be automagically applied - sort of like sending out a wiki page by email, saving it on my desktop, and then anytime anybody updates their local copy, every copy gets updated.
How does this work for you as a concept and message?
> Just to be clear, the pain I'm feeling when dealing w/ project > management is that it's hard
> to get to get people to use the project management tools that i've put > in place because they
> cater too much to a technical audience (trac, git), or require too > much customization for
> simple projects (Podio) or are too simplistic to let me do all PM > tasks in one place (Basecamp).
> The technical problem of keeping tasks synched across the network is > among the least
> of my worries, actually. My problem is finding a tool that's simple > enough yet complete
> enough to work for a technical and non-technical audience.
> Here are some suggestions for your pitch:
> - identify a particular person that has a particular problem (e.g. > your customer demographic)
> You might need to write a different invitation email based on > whether you're sending it
> to theater producers or web designers
> - put your link at the top of your pitch, not only at the bottom of > paragraphs of justification.
> - find a Twitter-length description of your tool. Otherwise, you make > it too hard for people
> to share it.
> - Crete an executive summary (no more than one paragraph) that leaves > me wanting more
> Kickstarter and Indiegogo are really great tools for honing your > marketing pitch, and they
> provide some brutally honest feedback about its effectiveness. It > may take you a couple
> of iterations to get to where you want to be with this project.
> Good luck!
> Anca.
> On Aug 5, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> Hi Alex,
>> Alex Hillman wrote:
>>> LightTable is:
>>> A) an outlier. Building anything on observations of outliers is a >>> recipe for disaster
>> Well... funded projects in the $50,000+ range are outliers on >> Kickstarter in general, but there are other software projects besides >> light table that have succeeded in raising significant amounts. I >> kind of like looking at outliers - you can learn a lot.
>>> B) EXTREMELY niche. You're pitch is extremely broad. That's going to >>> impact your sales in general, and even moreso at this stage.
>>> Coverage helps for sure, but I don't think you've actually picked an >>> audience to sell to. Do that, and you're entire formula changes.
>> Now that is certainly true. In one sense, "folks who manage >> projects" is a niche, and more so when one focuses on "folks who >> manage virtual projects with teams distributed across the net." In >> another sense, this crosses lots of different niches - whether one >> is doing software development, product development, running a >> marketing campaign, organizing a flash performance, etc., the number >> of folks who worry about project management are a small subset. A >> common set of problems, but a dispersed audience.
>> Which brings me back to my questions of how to find and reach people >> for whom what I'm doing will be helpful. I have a sense that a lot >> of my audience can be found among the same folks who inhabit >> co-working spaces, but I'm not sure - hence my inquiry to this list.
>> Thanks again,
>> Miles
>> -- >> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Coworking" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:coworking@googlegroups.com>.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > coworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
