Understanding Density

[Mike Schinkel]

Hi all:

We are doing some financial planning for an Atlanta Coworking space I'm
trying to figure what kind of density we can get.

We are looking for a warehouse-style space and we are planning to have desks
for "floaters" (people w/access but no assign space) and "deskers" (people
w/an assigned desk.) We may also have "cubers" (people w/an assigned cube)
and even "roomers" (people w/an assigned room.) (BTW, I just made those role
names up as I wrote this, LOL!)

Also, our goal will be to create a community where pretty much everyone
knows and respects everyone else in the space as much as that is possible,
but we are starting with a large group of people that already know and
respect each other. And if possible we'd like to have some sort of community
vetting process for members to avoid the freaky-sleeper types that Tara has
experienced although we might not be able to pull off a vetting process on
day one when we first need to reach profitability.

Anyway, we are trying to figure out what kind of density we can handle with
our floaters on a per square foot basis, or maybe we should do it on a per
desk basis? Can anyone speak to this? Thanks in advance.

-Mike Schinkel
President; NewClarity LLC
Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurs
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkel
http://mikeschinkel.com
http://atlanta-web.org

[Alex Hillman]

Why not look to the existing community to see what it's makeup is, and build your model from that?

-Alex

--
-----
--
-----
Alex Hillman
im always developing something
digital: al...@weknowhtml.com
visual: www.dangerouslyawesome.com
local: www.indyhall.org

[Mike Schinkel]

>> Why not look to the existing community to see what it's makeup is, and
build your model from that?

Thanks for the reply, but I already have that info.

What I don't have is an understanding of a workable density; IOW, how many
members can a given sqft support? For example, if we have a 4000 sqft
facility and we devote 2500 sqft to floater space how many floaters can we
generally accomdate in that 2500 sqft?

I'm hoping to learn from what others have experienced to be workable
metrics.

-Mike Schinkel
President; NewClarity LLC
Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurs
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkel

http://mikeschinkel.com <http://mikeschinkel.com/>
http://atlanta-web.org <http://atlanta-web.org/>

_____

[Susan Evans]

Hi Mike,

I believe there are some old threads if you do some digging on the sq.
footage per person. One figure that is sticking in my mind is 150-200
sq. ft/person, but honestly I'm not sure how great that figure is.

To let you know, we have 5000 square feet at Office Nomads in Seattle,
and figure we can max out at about 40 folks in the space before things
get really tight. That leaves us plenty of room to still have couches
to crash on, a kitchen to brew the coffee in, etc...

Hope that helps,
Susan

On Oct 2, 1:35 pm, "Mike Schinkel" <mikeschin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Why not look to the existing community to see what it's makeup is, and
>
> build your model from that?
>
> Thanks for the reply, but I already have that info.  
>
> What I don't have is an understanding of a workable density; IOW, how many
> members can a given sqft support?   For example, if we have a 4000 sqft
> facility and we devote 2500 sqft to floater space how many floaters can we
> generally accomdate in that 2500 sqft?  
>
> I'm hoping to learn from what others have experienced to be workable
> metrics.
>
> -Mike Schinkel
> President; NewClarity LLC

> Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurshttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkelhttp://mikeschinkel.com<http://mikeschinkel.com/>http://atlanta-web.org<http://atlanta-web.org/>  

>
>   _____  
>
> From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Alex Hillman
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:05 PM
> To: cowo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Coworking] Re: Understanding Density
>
> Why not look to the existing community to see what it's makeup is, and build
> your model from that?
>
> -Alex
>
> --
> -----
> --
> -----
> Alex Hillman
> im always developing something

> digital: a...@weknowhtml.com
> visual:www.dangerouslyawesome.com
> local:www.indyhall.org
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Mike Schinkel <mikeschin...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> We are doing some financial planning for an Atlanta Coworking space I'm
> trying to figure what kind of density we can get.
>
> We are looking for a warehouse-style space and we are planning to have desks
> for "floaters" (people w/access but no assign space) and "deskers" (people
> w/an assigned desk.) We may also have "cubers" (people w/an assigned cube)
> and even "roomers" (people w/an assigned room.) (BTW, I just made those role
> names up as I wrote this, LOL!)
>
> Also, our goal will be to create a community where pretty much everyone
> knows and respects everyone else in the space as much as that is possible,
> but we are starting with a large group of people that already know and
> respect each other. And if possible we'd like to have some sort of community
> vetting process for members to avoid the freaky-sleeper types that Tara has
> experienced although we might not be able to pull off a vetting process on
> day one when we first need to reach profitability.
>
> Anyway, we are trying to figure out what kind of density we can handle with
> our floaters on a per square foot basis, or maybe we should do it on a per
> desk basis? Can anyone speak to this? Thanks in advance.
>
> -Mike Schinkel
> President; NewClarity LLC
> Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurshttp://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkelhttp://mikeschinkel.comhttp://atlanta-web.org
>

>  winmail.dat
> 7KViewDownload

[Alex Hillman]

Tara has published a great formula for caluculating desks per square feet:

http://groups.google.com/group/coworking/browse_thread/thread/3fc7f1acd053ef00/60fd6b3cf30b61fa?lnk=gst&q=formula+tara#60fd6b3cf30b61fa

As far as members, I presume you're talking about the "gym membership model" effect where there are more members than desks.

We've been trending our numbers for a while, and hope to be publishing the findings as soon as we make some sense of them. I'm sure that they change from community to community, but some things we've noticed:
-Floating desk use comes in waves. We can have one quiet week, and the next week its packed every day.
-Wednesday and Friday tend to be the most populated days in general. Except for recently, when we introduced cupcake thursdays. guess what the new most popular day is! :)

I hope this was helpful, and again...as we get our trends together we want to share them!

-Alex

--
-----
--
-----
Alex Hillman
im always developing something
digital: al...@weknowhtml.com
visual: www.dangerouslyawesome.com
local: www.indyhall.org

[Mike Schinkel]

Thanks Susan:

Are 40 people 40 with desks or what I called "floaters?" Are they their 5
days a week?

We have some people that plan to be there only 1 or 2 days per week.

-Mike Schinkel
President; NewClarity LLC

Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurs
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkel
http://mikeschinkel.com
http://atlanta-web.org

-----Original Message-----
From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Susan Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:42 PM
To: Coworking
Subject: [Coworking] Re: Understanding Density

[Mike Schinkel]

>> Tara has published a great formula for caluculating desks per square feet:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking/browse_thread/thread/3fc7f1acd053ef00/60fd6b3cf30b61fa?lnk=gst&q=formula+tara#60fd6b3cf30b61fa

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

>> As far as members, I presume you're talking about the "gym membership model" effect where there are more members than desks.

 

Exactly.

 

>> We've been trending our numbers for a while, and hope to be publishing the findings as soon as we make some sense of them. I'm sure that they change from community to community, but some things we've noticed: -Floating desk use comes in waves. We can have one quiet week, and the next week its packed every day.

 

That would make perfect sense.  Fast food restaurants get the same thing in their lines throughout the day, and there's a lot of study on that subject.

>> -Wednesday and Friday tend to be the most populated days in general. Except for recently, when we introduced cupcake thursdays. guess what the new most popular day is! :)

 

Really, I would have intuited otherwise.

 

>> I hope this was helpful, and again...as we get our trends together we want to share them!

 

Yes it was.  I look forward to your trends. Thanks in advance.

 

-Mike Schinkel
President; NewClarity LLC
Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurs
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkel
http://mikeschinkel.com
http://atlanta-web.org

 

From: cowo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cowo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hillman

Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:44 PM

[Jacob Sayles]

Mike,

We have 40 desks available for folks who sign up for our
resident/dedicated desk membership plan. Currently we have 10 of
those occupied and the other 30 are free for floaters. We also have a
large area in the center of the space that has shared tables for more
drop-ins. Some folks come in and use the couches instead of a desk.
So, hypothetically if all 40 desks were occupied with residents we
still have room for floaters.

I've seen some folks try and estimate out usage and capacity with all
sorts of fuzzy math but I'm in the business of community building not
predicting the future so I like to keep things simple. We are
afforded this simplicity because we are not running our numbers so
tight to maximize profit. If it was about money, we'd be in a
different business. :)

Jacob

--
Office Nomads - Individuality without Isolation
http://www.officenomads.com - (206) 323-6500

[HeatherO]

I've heard designers/planners would say that people need a min. of 100sf of "personal space" to feel comfortable. Having said that,  most cubicles are 36-48sf...

Obviously it depends largely on the furnishings themselves!
Our space plan allows for 51 people :

15@"bar stools"
8@ round tables
15@ soft seating
2 private office
14 desks
that works out to 46sf/person.

Does that help?

(we aren't upfit yet so i can't say how all of that will "feel" but a space planner drew it out and says it'll work:))

At Your Service,

HeatherO'

Heather O'Sullivan Canney, RP, Broker/Partner
Heather O' Real Estate, Inc.
Real Living Partners Triangle, LLC

(919)427-7770
104B N. Salem St. Apex NC 27502
www.HeatherO.com
www.ApexGoodLiving.com

[BrianR]

Not sure if this has been mention or not... Check out your local fire
code for max occupancy. For example: 1 person per 100 sq ft
Meeting this requirement may over ride other considerations. It can
also depend on the type of building you lease or own.

I found out late in the process that warehouse space coded differently
than office space. Check with your local building inspector AND fire
marshal. It would sux if you wrote a plan for 2 people per 100 sq ft,
bought furniture for such, then discovered you could only put in 1
person per 100 sq ft due to fire code. Getting business licenses can
depend on successful fire inspections. ...depending on locality.

-BrianR

On Oct 3, 12:11 pm, HeatherO <Heath...@HeatherO.com> wrote:
> I've heard designers/planners would say that people need a min. of 100sf of
> "personal space" to feel comfortable. Having said that,  most cubicles are
> 36-48sf...
>
> Obviously it depends largely on the furnishings themselves!
> Our space plan allows for 51 people :
>
> 15@"bar stools"
> 8@ round tables
> 15@ soft seating
> 2 private office
> 14 desks
> that works out to 46sf/person.
>
> Does that help?
>
> (we aren't upfit yet so i can't say how all of that will "feel" but a space
> planner drew it out and says it'll work:))
>

> [image: Click Here] <http://1unv.com/ujuo00/c.map>

> >http://www.officenomads.com-  (206) 323-6500
>
> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Mike Schinkel <mikeschin...@gmail.com>

[Jerome Chang]

hire

an

architect.

Your occupancy can depend a few things, from construction type (steel, concrete, etc.), to type of use (office for most of you), its zoning (if currently warehouse, you'll have to convert usage to office), to even having fire sprinklers or not.  In general, all that messing around with numbers is pretty feasible, and standard exercises for architects.  The tougher part is providing sufficient aisles/corridors, exits, and parking spaces.  Yes, parking is usually the killer.

your friendly coworking neighborhood architect,

Jerome

______________
BLANKSPACES
"work wide open"

www.blankspaces.com
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea)
Los Angeles, CA 90036
323.330.9505 (office)