Coworking - Self Employed Health Insurance
Brad Neuberg
to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how
the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are
self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with
self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage,
massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone
involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as
a group to have greater price negotation?
Best,
Brad
Chris Messina
The best model that exists is Freelancers Union -- and I think Noel
knows more about their situation. They're registered as a special type
of organization that allows them to buy health care at a
discount/group price and unless we figured out some way to centralize
coworking (which I'm personally reticent to consider), it'd be hard to
leverage the size of our community (or potential community) to
convince anyone to give us a good rate.
Now, on the other hand, if we were to create a kind of membership
organization or 501c6 that charged dues, we might stand a better
chance of negotiating a deal -- especially if we teamed up with a
freelancer-friendly organization like the AIGA.
My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
At the lower end of the spectrum, I think we could try to arrange a
meeting with the folks from TriNet and see if they could help us...
Googling around a bit I came upon the National Association of the
Self-Employed (http://nase.org/) that seems to offer low-cost health
care, but I have no idea about their reputability. I'm hoping that
over time someone from the community will emerge who knows more about
this stuff than I -- but in the meantime, why don't we start writing
up the kind of coverage we'd want as a coworking collective and see if
we can't go from there?
Chris
--
Chris Messina
Citizen Provocateur &
Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
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David Doolin
[]
> My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
Yeah.
The overhead is always present somewhere, usually hidden
until the real costs of doing business pop up.
Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5
employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
I'll have more on this later.
-dave
Tara Hunt
Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5
employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part of the nightmare of administration.
I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
--
Sincerely,
Tara
-----------------------
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
agent provocateur
Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951
fax: 415-727-5335
David Doolin
So you were paying $600, and riya was paying
something around $200 above that.
As it turns out, if you have any sort of staff
and decent cash flow, $200/month/head is
pretty good for HR services, because Trinet
picks up all the legal liability as well.
There really is no "solution" here. It's a process,
that changes with the scale of the organization,
and as employment law changes at state
and national level. Going from 1 person (me) to
say, 5 people is pretty big jump. I don't know
where the next jump is after that.
-d
matthew
offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've
requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable
than the Freelancers Union.
good luck,
matthew
Tara Hunt
T
Brad Neuberg
ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the
Freelancers Union, etc.
Best,
Brad
On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <ta...@citizenagency.com> wrote:
Gregory Heller
Access to Health Insurance / Resource For Care (CivicActions is in the process of working with them on a site redesign). They are a clearing house for health insurance information specifically for artists.
My understanding of frlancers union is that it ain't cheap! upwards of $400 a month.
Insurance rates fluctuate wildly based on age and city of residence.
I would recommend that folks look at HDHPs (High Deductible Health Plans) combined with HSAs (Health savings accounts).
Basically, you assume that as a young health person you are not going to have lots of chronic health care costs, so you get a catastrophic plan that will cover hospitalizations or any big unexpected stuff, then you save money before taxes in an HSA and you use that money to pay your deductibe, which might be as high as $2500. But since your plan costs you around 100 to 200 a month,, your annual health insurance payment is maybe around 2k and the 2500 that you put into the hsa stays there, and you can keep on adding to it up to a certain amount each year.
Sorry if this isn't so clear. It's getting late, but i saw the question so figured i would chime in with some info.
Chris Messina
ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution that
fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
http://wiki.coworking.info/Healthcare
I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might
also help to document what people have done in different places...
Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a namespaced
extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were
given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that,
together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our
collective purchasing power.
It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Chris
David Doolin
[]
> In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were
> given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that,
> together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our
> collective purchasing power.
>
> It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
My solution is to transition from COBRA to carrying it
as a policy held for me on my own C corp. Then
transition back to COBRA if necessary.
I will post details of that as I complete the transition,
preliminary research indicates ~$300/month premium.
But I am a low-maintenance guy, YMMV.
As someone else noted, using a high deductible
and HRA/HSA is a very good way to approach this
problem. "High deductible" isn't really all that
high anyway. I think it's order $1200 for a single
person. The tax benefit of HSA/HRA make this
worthwhile.
This is exactly the kind of thing we should be
having a workshop on. Look for something
scheduled at Hat Factory in April.
-dave d
Samuel Rose
I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've
been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the
prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for
people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union
models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore
this some more, too.
Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to
create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take
off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth
exploring.
It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health
care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day
and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based,
local to a network of people?
It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could
easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe
aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for
coworking indepenedents.
Either way, I'll be researching this at
http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/HealthCareUnion/FrontPage
But, if Coworking folks are also interested in this, I'll be sure to
also create it simultaneously into the Coworking wiki, too.
On 3/7/07, coworking group <nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Date: Tues, Mar 6 2007 7:18am
From: "Chris Messina"
Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting
resources,
ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution
that
fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
http://wiki.coworking.info/Healthcare
I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might
also help to document what people have done in different places...
Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a
namespaced
extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members
were
given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and
that,
together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our
collective purchasing power.
It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Chris
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel: +1-517-699-5594
Cel: +1-517-242-7783
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samue...@gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com/cooperation-commons
http://smartmobs.com
Samuel Rose
Samuel Rose
http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/HealthCareCoop/FrontPage
>
On Mar 7, 9:56 pm, "Samuel Rose" <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
>
> I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've
> been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the
> prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for
> people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union
> models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore
> this some more, too.
>
> Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to
> create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take
> off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth
> exploring.
>
> It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health
> care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day
> and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based,
> local to a network of people?
>
> It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could
> easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe
> aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for
> coworking indepenedents.
>
> Either way, I'll be researching this athttp://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/HealthCareUnion/FrontPage
> email: samuel.r...@gmail.comhttp://socialsynergyweb.comhttp://socialsynergy.typepad.comhttp://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
>
> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
>
> http://p2pfoundation.nethttp://blog.p2pfoundation.nethttp://www.cooperationcommons.com/cooperation-commonshttp://smartmobs.com
David Doolin
I am putting together a little event at Hat Factory
within a couple of weeks to look into this
further. We'll use your wiki work as a
base and go further in depth.
Thanks,
Dave D
Chris Messina
great. This would be akin to an idea we proposed to one of our clients
in offering people the infrastructure to create their own phone
company; given the raw materials and APIs, something similar could be
worked out for the coworking community.
Now, I'll couch that concept in an idealist cacoon and realize that
the laws and regulations around healthcare make it fairly improbable,
but... What about taking a different approach? What about a Coworkers
Union paired with an Independent Doctors and Caregivers network?
Again, pie-in-the-sky thinking here, but surely there are docs out
there who don't want the HMO lifestyle and who would be interested in
serving our constituents needs?
I mean, to wax philosophic, isn't this really about independence in
general and "getting off the grid/treadmill/HMO plan"? Isn't our work
all about creating a new economy that values and rewards those who
remain independent and pursue making a living doing what they love to
do?
Perhaps we should take this mantra outside the social geek scene and
start approaching those folks who might be able to co-facilitate our
mutual independence?
Chris
Alex Hillman
This might make less sense for other types of doctors, but it's proof that these types of care-givers do exist (and, come to think of it, gives me new kind of respect for how my dad has runs his business).
vocal: 484.597.6256
digital: al...@weknowhtml.com
visual: www.weknowhtml.com
Samuel Rose
Added to
Seeding, Enabling and Connecting with Networks of Independet Health
Care Professionals
ChrisMessina: "What about a Coworkers (network) paired with an
Independent Doctors and Caregivers network? Surely there are docs out
there who don't want the HMO lifestyle and who would be interested in
serving our constituents needs?...isn't this really about independence
in general and "getting off the grid/treadmill/HMO plan"? Isn't our
work all about creating a new economy that values and rewards those
who remain independent and pursue making a living doing what they love
to do?"
Open Questions:
How can the concept of Coworking be spread to the healthcare
profession? Coworking has spread quickly in part because it contains
useable building blocks of concepts, tools, and ideas that help
independents solve problems they are interested in solving in
collaborative ways. So:
what are the problems that independent health care professionals want
to solve, that can be enhanced by collaboration in decentralized and
open networks?
How can this be seeded in health care communities, so that it will
grow on it's own, the way that Coworking has grown?
* Blogging about it?
* Some form of outreach to healthcare
independents outreach?
* (un) conferences in or near universities
where health care is taught?
* Getting Coworkers to go out in their
areas and talk to health care independents?
* Other...???
Who are the plausible early adopters that will create the core
enthusiastic community of health care independents that this could
spread from?
How can the Coworking community work together to help make this option
for healthcare independents more desireable and attractive than the
HMOTreadmill?**
The (thus far unstated) goal here is to create a mutually-benefitting
mesh network of coworking independents and health care independents.
Utilizing the same thinking and decentralized knowledge commons
concepts that Coworking is growing with.
Of course, feel totally free to add to, refactor, etc on that page.
Would be very cool to get more people talking about this. Also would
be neat to think about how this can spread to many other possible
professions (legal, accounting, engineering, etc etc etc)
On Mar 8, 12:15 pm, "David Doolin" <david.doo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam,
>
> I am putting together a little event at Hat Factory
> within a couple of weeks to look into this
> further. We'll use your wiki work as a
> base and go further in depth.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave D
>
nancy_tubbs
NASE. There is typically mixed impressions, averaging bad, for NASE. I
can retrieve the discussions about other insurance options, which
include mentions of a few specific plans, some brokers, and
potentially a couple associations who are or plan to offer it as a
benefit. It would take a bit of time to distill the contents as I
can't lift it completely due to list rules, but if you guys would
really like it, let me know.
On Mar 4, 11:45 pm, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've been thinking about and discussing this at Citizen Space for some time.
>
> The best model that exists is Freelancers Union -- and I think Noel
> knows more about their situation. They're registered as a special type
> of organization that allows them to buy health care at a
> discount/group price and unless we figured out some way to centralize
> coworking (which I'm personally reticent to consider), it'd be hard to
> leverage the size of our community (or potential community) to
> convince anyone to give us a good rate.
>
> Now, on the other hand, if we were to create a kind of membership
> organization or 501c6 that charged dues, we might stand a better
> chance of negotiating a deal -- especially if we teamed up with a
> freelancer-friendly organization like the AIGA.
>
> My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
>
> At the lower end of the spectrum, I think we could try to arrange a
> meeting with the folks from TriNet and see if they could help us...
>
> Googling around a bit I came upon the National Association of the
> Self-Employed (http://nase.org/) that seems to offer low-cost health
> care, but I have no idea about their reputability. I'm hoping that
> over time someone from the community will emerge who knows more about
> this stuff than I -- but in the meantime, why don't we start writing
> up the kind of coverage we'd want as a coworking collective and see if
> we can't go from there?
>
> Chris
>