Quick question: would it be possible for all of the coworking spaces to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage, massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as a group to have greater price negotation?
We've been thinking about and discussing this at Citizen Space for some time.
The best model that exists is Freelancers Union -- and I think Noel knows more about their situation. They're registered as a special type of organization that allows them to buy health care at a discount/group price and unless we figured out some way to centralize coworking (which I'm personally reticent to consider), it'd be hard to leverage the size of our community (or potential community) to convince anyone to give us a good rate.
Now, on the other hand, if we were to create a kind of membership organization or 501c6 that charged dues, we might stand a better chance of negotiating a deal -- especially if we teamed up with a freelancer-friendly organization like the AIGA.
My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
At the lower end of the spectrum, I think we could try to arrange a meeting with the folks from TriNet and see if they could help us...
Googling around a bit I came upon the National Association of the Self-Employed (http://nase.org/) that seems to offer low-cost health care, but I have no idea about their reputability. I'm hoping that over time someone from the community will emerge who knows more about this stuff than I -- but in the meantime, why don't we start writing up the kind of coverage we'd want as a coworking collective and see if we can't go from there?
Chris
On 3/4/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quick question: would it be possible for all of the coworking spaces > to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how > the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are > self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with > self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage, > massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone > involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as > a group to have greater price negotation?
> Best, > Brad
-- Chris Messina Citizen Provocateur & Open Source Ambassador-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412 225-1051 Skype: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
> Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I still have hospital bills!
It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part of the nightmare of administration.
I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
So you were paying $600, and riya was paying something around $200 above that.
As it turns out, if you have any sort of staff and decent cash flow, $200/month/head is pretty good for HR services, because Trinet picks up all the legal liability as well.
There really is no "solution" here. It's a process, that changes with the scale of the organization, and as employment law changes at state and national level. Going from 1 person (me) to say, 5 people is pretty big jump. I don't know where the next jump is after that.
-d
On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote:
> > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I > still have hospital bills!
> It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part > of the nightmare of administration.
> I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable than the Freelancers Union.
> > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), and I > still have hospital bills!
> It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something is > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is part > of the nightmare of administration.
> I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at before.
We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources that we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us some options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > than the Freelancers Union.
> On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), > and I > > still have hospital bills!
> > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something > is > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is > part > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > before.
It sounds like a partnership situation is the best way to do this, to ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the Freelancers Union, etc.
Best, Brad
On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote:
> We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of > Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources that > we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is > called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us some > options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> > Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > > than the Freelancers Union.
> > On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to the > > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage son), > and I > > > still have hospital bills!
> > > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. I've > > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when something > is > > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would be > > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that is > part > > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and small > > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > before.
I'd mention AHIRC http://www.ahirc.org/ Access to Health Insurance / Resource For Care (CivicActions is in the process of working with them on a site redesign). They are a clearing house for health insurance information specifically for artists.
My understanding of frlancers union is that it ain't cheap! upwards of $400 a month.
Insurance rates fluctuate wildly based on age and city of residence.
I would recommend that folks look at HDHPs (High Deductible Health Plans) combined with HSAs (Health savings accounts).
Basically, you assume that as a young health person you are not going to have lots of chronic health care costs, so you get a catastrophic plan that will cover hospitalizations or any big unexpected stuff, then you save money before taxes in an HSA and you use that money to pay your deductibe, which might be as high as $2500. But since your plan costs you around 100 to 200 a month,, your annual health insurance payment is maybe around 2k and the 2500 that you put into the hsa stays there, and you can keep on adding to it up to a certain amount each year.
Sorry if this isn't so clear. It's getting late, but i saw the question so figured i would chime in with some info.
On 3/5/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It sounds like a partnership situation is the best way to do this, to > ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the > Freelancers Union, etc.
> Best, > Brad
> On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of > > Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources > that > > we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is > > called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us > some > > options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> > > Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > > > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > > > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > > > than the Freelancers Union.
> > > On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > > > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to > the > > > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage > son), > > and I > > > > still have hospital bills!
> > > > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. > I've > > > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when > something > > is > > > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would > be > > > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that > is > > part > > > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > > > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and > small > > > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > > before.
Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting resources, ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution that fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might also help to document what people have done in different places... Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a namespaced extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that, together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our collective purchasing power.
It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Chris
On 3/5/07, Gregory Heller <gregoryhel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd mention AHIRC http://www.ahirc.org/ > Access to Health Insurance / Resource For Care (CivicActions is in the > process of working with them on a site redesign). They are a clearing house > for health insurance information specifically for artists.
> My understanding of frlancers union is that it ain't cheap! upwards of $400 > a month.
> Insurance rates fluctuate wildly based on age and city of residence.
> I would recommend that folks look at HDHPs (High Deductible Health Plans) > combined with HSAs (Health savings accounts).
> Basically, you assume that as a young health person you are not going to > have lots of chronic health care costs, so you get a catastrophic plan that > will cover hospitalizations or any big unexpected stuff, then you save money > before taxes in an HSA and you use that money to pay your deductibe, which > might be as high as $2500. But since your plan costs you around 100 to 200 > a month,, your annual health insurance payment is maybe around 2k and the > 2500 that you put into the hsa stays there, and you can keep on adding to it > up to a certain amount each year.
> Sorry if this isn't so clear. It's getting late, but i saw the question so > figured i would chime in with some info.
> On 3/5/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It sounds like a partnership situation is the best way to do this, to > > ease our own administration burdens. Possibly with NASE, the > > Freelancers Union, etc.
> > Best, > > Brad
> > On 3/5/07, Tara Hunt <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > We actually just spoke with the Net Squared folks (a project of > > > Compumentor.org) about this and they will be sending us some resources > > that > > > we will pass along and look into. I think they said that one of them is > > > called Working Solutions. They also have another package that gives us > > some > > > options with creating a membership organization to get a bulk discount.
> > > T
> > > On 3/5/07, matthew <mwil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Check out your chamber of commerce. In Brooklyn, they will soon be > > > > offering health insurance to small biz AND sole proprietors. I've > > > > requested more details but it seems like it will be more affordable > > > > than the Freelancers Union.
> > > > On Mar 5, 10:34 am, "Tara Hunt" <t...@citizenagency.com> wrote: > > > > > > Trinet is *expensive.* Last time I talked you needed 5 > > > > > > employees and it was $200/head pay to play.
> > > > > When I was at Riya.com, we used Trinet and I paid over $600/month to > > the > > > > > health/dentalcare for family coverage (because I have a teenage > > son), > > > and I > > > > > still have hospital bills!
> > > > > It's so odd to me that there isn't a funded healthcare system here. > > I've > > > > > taken it for granted for so long being a Canadian. Now, when > > something > > > is > > > > > wrong, I don't go to the doctor in fear of going broke. :| It would > > be > > > > > awesome if something was in place for us. I could handle $200/month, > > > > > personally, but I recognize that won't work for everyone, and that > > is > > > part > > > > > of the nightmare of administration.
> > > > > I'd love to hear more, Dave. There are so many indie workers and > > small > > > > > companies out there that I'm positive that this has been looked at > > > before.
On 3/6/07, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
> In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were > given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that, > together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our > collective purchasing power.
> It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
My solution is to transition from COBRA to carrying it as a policy held for me on my own C corp. Then transition back to COBRA if necessary.
I will post details of that as I complete the transition, preliminary research indicates ~$300/month premium. But I am a low-maintenance guy, YMMV.
As someone else noted, using a high deductible and HRA/HSA is a very good way to approach this problem. "High deductible" isn't really all that high anyway. I think it's order $1200 for a single person. The tax benefit of HSA/HRA make this worthwhile.
This is exactly the kind of thing we should be having a workshop on. Look for something scheduled at Hat Factory in April.
I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore this some more, too.
Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth exploring.
It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, local to a network of people?
It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for coworking indepenedents.
But, if Coworking folks are also interested in this, I'll be sure to also create it simultaneously into the Coworking wiki, too.
On 3/7/07, coworking group <noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Date: Tues, Mar 6 2007 7:18am From: "Chris Messina"
Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting resources, ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution that fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might also help to document what people have done in different places... Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a namespaced extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members were given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and that, together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our collective purchasing power.
It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
> I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
> I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've > been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the > prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for > people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union > models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore > this some more, too.
> Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to > create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take > off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth > exploring.
> It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health > care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day > and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, > local to a network of people?
> It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could > easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe > aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for > coworking indepenedents.
> Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting > resources, > ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution > that > fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
> I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might > also help to document what people have done in different places... > Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a > namespaced > extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
> In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members > were > given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and > that, > together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our > collective purchasing power.
> It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
I am putting together a little event at Hat Factory within a couple of weeks to look into this further. We'll use your wiki work as a base and go further in depth.
Thanks, Dave D
On 3/8/07, Samuel Rose <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 9:56 pm, "Samuel Rose" <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
> > I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've > > been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the > > prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for > > people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union > > models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore > > this some more, too.
> > Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to > > create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take > > off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth > > exploring.
> > It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health > > care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day > > and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, > > local to a network of people?
> > It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could > > easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe > > aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for > > coworking indepenedents.
> > Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting > > resources, > > ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution > > that > > fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
> > I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might > > also help to document what people have done in different places... > > Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a > > namespaced > > extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
Cool -- I agree that a network-focused health care operation would be great. This would be akin to an idea we proposed to one of our clients in offering people the infrastructure to create their own phone company; given the raw materials and APIs, something similar could be worked out for the coworking community.
Now, I'll couch that concept in an idealist cacoon and realize that the laws and regulations around healthcare make it fairly improbable, but... What about taking a different approach? What about a Coworkers Union paired with an Independent Doctors and Caregivers network? Again, pie-in-the-sky thinking here, but surely there are docs out there who don't want the HMO lifestyle and who would be interested in serving our constituents needs?
I mean, to wax philosophic, isn't this really about independence in general and "getting off the grid/treadmill/HMO plan"? Isn't our work all about creating a new economy that values and rewards those who remain independent and pursue making a living doing what they love to do?
Perhaps we should take this mantra outside the social geek scene and start approaching those folks who might be able to co-facilitate our mutual independence?
Chris
On 3/7/07, Samuel Rose <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
> I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've > been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the > prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for > people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union > models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore > this some more, too.
> Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to > create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take > off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth > exploring.
> It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health > care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day > and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, > local to a network of people?
> It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could > easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe > aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for > coworking indepenedents.
> Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting > resources, > ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution > that > fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
> I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might > also help to document what people have done in different places... > Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a > namespaced > extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
> In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members > were > given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and > that, > together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our > collective purchasing power.
> It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Interesting point. My father is a chiropractor and has never accepted health insurance a day of his practice. His reasoning was simply to keep things simple. He keeps his rates low for the average joe (and has payment schedules geared towards regular customers...since chiropractic is most effective with regular care).
This might make less sense for other types of doctors, but it's proof that these types of care-givers do exist (and, come to think of it, gives me new kind of respect for how my dad has runs his business).
On 3/8/07, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cool -- I agree that a network-focused health care operation would be > great. This would be akin to an idea we proposed to one of our clients > in offering people the infrastructure to create their own phone > company; given the raw materials and APIs, something similar could be > worked out for the coworking community.
> Now, I'll couch that concept in an idealist cacoon and realize that > the laws and regulations around healthcare make it fairly improbable, > but... What about taking a different approach? What about a Coworkers > Union paired with an Independent Doctors and Caregivers network? > Again, pie-in-the-sky thinking here, but surely there are docs out > there who don't want the HMO lifestyle and who would be interested in > serving our constituents needs?
> I mean, to wax philosophic, isn't this really about independence in > general and "getting off the grid/treadmill/HMO plan"? Isn't our work > all about creating a new economy that values and rewards those who > remain independent and pursue making a living doing what they love to > do?
> Perhaps we should take this mantra outside the social geek scene and > start approaching those folks who might be able to co-facilitate our > mutual independence?
> Chris
> On 3/7/07, Samuel Rose <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
> > I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've > > been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the > > prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for > > people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union > > models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore > > this some more, too.
> > Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to > > create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take > > off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth > > exploring.
> > It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health > > care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day > > and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, > > local to a network of people?
> > It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could > > easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe > > aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for > > coworking indepenedents.
> > Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting > > resources, > > ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution > > that > > fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
> > I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might > > also help to document what people have done in different places... > > Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a > > namespaced > > extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
> > In the long term, it'd be ideal if coworking community members > > were > > given at least three solid choices for affordable care -- and > > that, > > together, we could lower the rates for everyone by harnessing our > > collective purchasing power.
> > It's a tall order, but no one seems to be likely to do it for us.
Seeding, Enabling and Connecting with Networks of Independet Health Care Professionals
ChrisMessina: "What about a Coworkers (network) paired with an Independent Doctors and Caregivers network? Surely there are docs out there who don't want the HMO lifestyle and who would be interested in serving our constituents needs?...isn't this really about independence in general and "getting off the grid/treadmill/HMO plan"? Isn't our work all about creating a new economy that values and rewards those who remain independent and pursue making a living doing what they love to do?"
Open Questions:
How can the concept of Coworking be spread to the healthcare profession? Coworking has spread quickly in part because it contains useable building blocks of concepts, tools, and ideas that help independents solve problems they are interested in solving in collaborative ways. So:
what are the problems that independent health care professionals want to solve, that can be enhanced by collaboration in decentralized and open networks?
How can this be seeded in health care communities, so that it will grow on it's own, the way that Coworking has grown?
* Blogging about it? * Some form of outreach to healthcare independents outreach? * (un) conferences in or near universities where health care is taught? * Getting Coworkers to go out in their areas and talk to health care independents? * Other...???
Who are the plausible early adopters that will create the core enthusiastic community of health care independents that this could spread from?
How can the Coworking community work together to help make this option for healthcare independents more desireable and attractive than the HMOTreadmill?**
The (thus far unstated) goal here is to create a mutually-benefitting mesh network of coworking independents and health care independents. Utilizing the same thinking and decentralized knowledge commons concepts that Coworking is growing with.
Of course, feel totally free to add to, refactor, etc on that page. Would be very cool to get more people talking about this. Also would be neat to think about how this can spread to many other possible professions (legal, accounting, engineering, etc etc etc)
On Mar 8, 12:15 pm, "David Doolin" <david.doo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am putting together a little event at Hat Factory > within a couple of weeks to look into this > further. We'll use your wiki work as a > base and go further in depth.
> Thanks, > Dave D
> On 3/8/07, Samuel Rose <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Also: correction, will research and develop Health Care Cooperative:
> > On Mar 7, 9:56 pm, "Samuel Rose" <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I don;t think it's a tall order. It's a vital needed service, IMHO.
> > > I was wondering when this would come up in Coworkign circles. I've > > > been talking with some other independent entreprenuers about the > > > prospect of creating a cooperative-governed Health Care Union for > > > people in the US. I have some research on existing Health care Union > > > models. It was on my ToDo list to create launch a wiki site to explore > > > this some more, too.
> > > Coworking as movement in the US maybe does not yet have the numbers to > > > create a Health Care Union. But then again, maybe the idea would take > > > off and grow exponentially among people interested. It's worth > > > exploring.
> > > It's probably generally optimal to have a Cooperative-based health > > > care union be local or regional based. But I wonder if, in this day > > > and age of virtual connection, whether it can also be network-based, > > > local to a network of people?
> > > It would be awesome to have a system that a network of people could > > > easily adopt for starting up their own health care union, and maybe > > > aligning it/connecting it with a federation of health care unions for > > > coworking indepenedents.
> > > Can we maybe create a page on the wiki to start documenting > > > resources, > > > ideas and the like? I don't know that we'll find a one-solution > > > that > > > fits all, but starting with educating ourselves would be great.
> > > I also agree that geography is an issue to consider -- so it might > > > also help to document what people have done in different places... > > > Where the local goverment helps out, etc -- perhaps as a > > > namespaced > > > extension: CoworkingBrooklynHealthcare or something.
On another list, for consultants, this issue comes up a bit, including NASE. There is typically mixed impressions, averaging bad, for NASE. I can retrieve the discussions about other insurance options, which include mentions of a few specific plans, some brokers, and potentially a couple associations who are or plan to offer it as a benefit. It would take a bit of time to distill the contents as I can't lift it completely due to list rules, but if you guys would really like it, let me know.
On Mar 4, 11:45 pm, "Chris Messina" <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've been thinking about and discussing this at Citizen Space for some time.
> The best model that exists is Freelancers Union -- and I think Noel > knows more about their situation. They're registered as a special type > of organization that allows them to buy health care at a > discount/group price and unless we figured out some way to centralize > coworking (which I'm personally reticent to consider), it'd be hard to > leverage the size of our community (or potential community) to > convince anyone to give us a good rate.
> Now, on the other hand, if we were to create a kind of membership > organization or 501c6 that charged dues, we might stand a better > chance of negotiating a deal -- especially if we teamed up with a > freelancer-friendly organization like the AIGA.
> My biggest concern is with overhead administrating such a scheme.
> At the lower end of the spectrum, I think we could try to arrange a > meeting with the folks from TriNet and see if they could help us...
> Googling around a bit I came upon the National Association of the > Self-Employed (http://nase.org/) that seems to offer low-cost health > care, but I have no idea about their reputability. I'm hoping that > over time someone from the community will emerge who knows more about > this stuff than I -- but in the meantime, why don't we start writing > up the kind of coverage we'd want as a coworking collective and see if > we can't go from there?
> Chris
> On 3/4/07, Brad Neuberg <paperairpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Quick question: would it be possible for all of the coworking spaces > > to offer affordable group insurance to it's members? Not sure of how > > the actual logistics would work out, but since all of us are > > self-employed I'm sure everyone knows about the serious problems with > > self-employed health insurance, such as them dropping your coverage, > > massively high premiums, etc. What would it look like for everyone > > involved in the coworking movement to offer group health insurance as > > a group to have greater price negotation?
> > Best, > > Brad
> -- > Chris Messina > Citizen Provocateur & > Open Source Ambassador-at-Large > Work:http://citizenagency.com > Blog:http://factoryjoe.com/blog > Cell: 412 225-1051 > Skype: factoryjoe > This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
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