Do coworking centers need "Quiet" space?

[Sidi]

Dear Coworkers,
I am relatively new to the group, but have a question I have been
meaning to ask, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to
introduce myself.

Anyways, I am running a coworking space in Cambridge MA, called "C3",
and am designing its future expansion. My question revolves around the
topic of "quiet" space: from your experience are they necessary?
Necessary might be a strong word, but if just 'useful', can you
describe what it needs to have from your experience? Does it need to
be absolutely quiet - so an acoustically enclosed room (i.e. with
floor to ceiling walls - which could be glass - and doors to access
it), or does simply have a designated space called "quiet room/area"
where people aren't supposed to talk do the trick?

Thanks so much,

Sidi

[Alex Hillman]

This sounds like a "feature" looking for an audience, not the other way around. Do you have a specific type of member in mind for this, anyone who's expressed specific needs for something like it?

-Alex

 
/ah
indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

Sidi

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[Jerome Chang]

This is the dilemma: many think they "need" a private space, but when you ask them how many hours in a day they'd require it, it only really is an hour or two.  Worse, they often aren't willing to pay for this privacy (assuming privacy is an upgrade to an enclosed office).

So the question really becomes: how private and/or quiet does this space need to be?

It comes down to culture and individual preference.  That's why people should choose a coworking space that has the right culture/vibe for them.  At BLANKSPACES, we advocate 'white noise'.  Talk all you want so everyone else does.  As white noise builds up, the vibe sounds more energetic/productive than distracting.  We then suggest that if someone needs "quiet", jump in a vacant office/meeting room.

Keep in mind that glass is never soundproof.  The very nature of very stiff material will eventually vibrate as a large speaker.

So in short, stick with your core audience, and let others adjust or create a workaround. It's why we never have vending machines: for every healthy (bleh?) item, someone else will want that chocolate bar.

Jerome

______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036 

[Tom Brandt]

As Jerome said downthread, it comes down to culture and individual preference. At Workantile, the wearing of headphones means "do not disturb". We also have two levels, a ground floor level and a loft level which not acoustically isolated from the ground floor level. However, the loft is carpeted whereas the ground floor is not, so the loft is quieter due to that, and people will sometimes go up there for a somewhat quieter environment. But tying up a conference room for some quiet time is not something we encourage.

Sidi

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[Jerome Chang]

clarification: we only allow unreserved use of meeting rooms for up to 30 min.

Since Tom brought up the headphones: check out a vid we did a couple of years ago:

http://vimeo.com/6922393

Jerome

______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036 

[Alex Hillman]

Both awesome guidelines that we use as well.

-Alex

/ah
indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia

[Sidi]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
I am of the opinion (as well) that we dont need an acoustically
separate zone dedicated as quiet space.
Is it just a feature? I am not sure - but I do know there is a need
for more private space for people to work on, and dont get distracted.
My question is, just how much acoustical insulation does it need?
From what you have heard form your clients, do they "ask" for
completely quiet spaces and you just turn them down, or is there
simply no request for it? If there is, is the amount of people asking
for it negligible (any ball park estimations would be great)? I am
just trying to have a good answer to come to the the owner of the
space and tell them why one thing or another makes sense, so the more
info I have the better my argument is.
Thanks guys!

Sidi

ps: Jerome, nice to meet you via the internet :) really looking
forward to talking to you in person after that article we both just
appeared on. Maybe we can also skype some time before the GCUC.
Alex, I should be seeing some videos from you guys soon (through Geoff
Mamlett). looking forward to talking to you too!

On Jan 30, 12:57 pm, Alex Hillman <dangerouslyawes...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > member, Workantile Exchange <http://workantileexchange.com/>

[Tom Brandt]

We have never had a request for a completely quiet space. The nice about coworking is that you don't have to be there - if you absolutely require something that the space does not require, you can go elsewhere like the library, or stay home. I don't think a coworking space can, or should, be all things to all people. If it is most things to your community, then you are doing well.

[Susan Evans]

To chime in, we just had a great check-in with a group of our members who all agreed that private spaces aren't necessarily what they need full-time, but if they could jump into a semi-private "war-room" type space they'd definitely use that. A place that is somewhat separated from pods of desks that makes it clear you are working on something specific as a team. So not necessarily quiet, but a "hey, we really need to focus on something for a few hours" space. Our meeting rooms currently function well for this, but there are only three of them and they get booked up quickly. The idea of these war-rooms was really to be able to book them for a big chunk of time if need be, then take all of the great ideas and motivation back to your desks and hop to work. Privacy or lack of noise wasn't an issue for anyone when it came to these types of spaces.

I personally dug the idea and hope that we'll be able to implement it sometime in the near future. 

Jerome, thanks for that note about glass, btw!

S
__
Office Nomads         
officenomads.com  
206-484-5859

[Jerome Chang]

Hi Sidi. I'll meet you @GCUC.

There are standard charts for acoustical values. I don't have the R-values memorized but basically, there's a level for "shouting" if you want that much acoustical insulation. I think you'd be fine with "loud talking" levels.

There are always requests for the following: quiet/soundproof private offices. But that's only because people think they are entitled to demand things because they can, not because they need. So we just try to ask them to be honest: "how many hours/day do you need supreme privacy?" They often say, 30-60 min, and tell them to use a vacant meeting room for those cases. In "sales", I never turn people down, but redirect their focus/needs.

Who is your audience? A landlord, a coworking space operator, or a member?

Jerome
______________
BLANKSPACES
"work FOR yourself, not BY yourself"

www.blankspaces.com
ph: 323.330.9505 | 5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) Los Angeles, CA 90036

[Angel Kwiatkowski]

We haven't needed 100% quiet space but did recently add 4 private
offices for people with lots of equipment (a radio station) and a
couple of long time members who talk with their biz partners nearly
all day long and/or also had a lot of equipment and paper file storage
needs.
As for the other 98% of our members, if they need total quiet, they
stay home on that day since most of our members are part time anyway.
Our new space also has 3 separate rooms for coworking. Having fewer
people in each room has helped with noise and it seems that the
members have already deemed one of the rooms the "quieter" of the two
so people can choose strategically where to sit based on their needs
that day. We also have 2 phone rooms, 2 conference rooms and comfy
outdoor space so there are lots of options to get away from the main
bustle of socialization in the coworking rooms.

This isn't a space I ever would have chosen when we first started out
b/c everyone was desperate to be within eyesight of one another when
we first opened. Now that we've matured as a community and I've had 2
years to pay attention to everyone's preferences, we're in a wildly
different type of space that fits our growing community perfectly.
Moral, don't over think "features" but rather do you best to select a
space that has some flexibility without going overboard. Real estate
isn't permanent and your members will let you know as their needs
change.

Angel of Cohere

[Tm Mahdi]

This is a question, I always keep asking myself and can't seem to get a straight answer from coworkers. 

In my observation, coworking spots around town are like libraries. Focused drones on their laptops connected to the wifi network in quiet environments. 

Now you have to ask yourself, with digital age we are in - the mobile space and unlike quiet like coworking facilities. 

What happens to those co-workers that need to take in a random skype call or a phone call but need to be in-front of the machine OR maybe you are one of those programmers who talks to himself why dissecting on code. How is the noise level treated then? 

You can't really expect coworkers of such nature to move into a private room. To a lot of coworkers in the starting age; that's an expensive endeavour. 

There must be a happy medium somehow.

I would love to hear the answer to this on-going delima. 

Much Appreciated, 

--

Tm Mahdi

Director & Founder,  Cg6 Inc.

CD/Director & Co-Founder,  padpholio

 

unlocking the creative markets.

toronto: studio 6 - 587 markham street, ontario m6g 2l7 canada | http://twitter.com/Cg6Inc

co |  1416.238.6881  w |  www.cg6.com  |  padpholio.com/Cg6Inc  my |  about.me/tm.mahdi  e |  tm.m...@cg6.com   

*defining Cg6 Inc

"Socially influenced, media noted startup incubator for creative professionals. Our work involves turning working concepts into business

 models. We have been hired for technical and creative direction, staging and reaching the right people." We are known for our events, #WORD11, InitiativeTO & padpholio niche to name a few...

[Craig Baute - Creative Density Coworking]

I went with a method similar to Angel and Susan here we have several
different rooms besides our larger rooms that are unofficially quiet
rooms. This seems to really work well for us. It isn't completely
quiet but people have a tendency to a lot less in these rooms and it
gives them the hour or two they need for focused heads down time.

Craig
Creative Density

[Angel Kwiatkowski]

>>>>What happens to those co-workers that need to take in a random skype
call or a phone call but need to be in-front of the machine OR maybe
you are one of those programmers who talks to himself why dissecting
on code. How is the noise level treated then?
You can't really expect coworkers of such nature to move into a
private room.

I think you're underestimating people with the above statement. Noise
isn't just a push issue where some people create noise and the other
people have to tolerate it. Noise is push/pull. So, you help the
community learn how to create noise in a way that is acceptable and
not disruptive. Most of our members have laptops so they can remove
themselves for a skype call and yes, we anticipate some level of
mumbling from ANY member during periods of deep concentration. We also
say as part of the tour that Cohere doesn't work for people who need
to be on the phone more than 2 hours/day. As for the pull aspect,
members can be conditioned to work in a noisier environment by
bringing headphones, moving to a different room or staying home if
they need total quiet. It may also be that a certain member just isn't
a great fit for the noise (or non-noise) level in your space and they
can be encouraged to find a space that's a great fit for their needs
and preferences.

Angel

> about.me/tm.mahdi  e |  tm.ma...@cg6.com

[rachel young]

Phone calls are part of business, and we never discourage that. What we do say is that if the call is expected to be loud, lengthy, or private, then take it to another space (another room, hallway, phone booth, or boardroom), otherwise a short, quiet, or business-related call at one's desk or couch is perfectly fine. One of our members has a voip phone on his desk and takes a team call every day for nearly an hour, but he's a relatively quiet talker, so it doesn't bother others, even those sitting right next to him.  

I say to people, "we don't need to hear about your wild weekend, your personal finances, or if the person on your call can hear you now" and am quick to add that most people tune out other people's average phone calls and conversations, be they in the workspace or kitchen or lounge or boardroom with the door open and that some volume in the space is not only unavoidable but is necessary to know that there are others working around us, and that's what I've seen in most spaces I've visited.

I also tell folks that coworking isn't ideal for the extremes, those that want absolute quiet and those that are on the phone constantly, and that most people fall somewhere in the middle.

r.

____________________
rachel young
rac...@camaraderie.ca

[Tm Mahdi]

that sounds fair. 

In addition to Camaraderie, can you recommend other spaces in Toronto that have the same viewpoints?

I'm not saying that I am one of the loud ones, but it is nice resource to have access to.  

--

Tm Mahdi

Director & Founder,  Cg6 Inc.

CD/Director & Co-Founder,  padpholio

 

unlocking the creative markets.

toronto: studio 6 - 587 markham street, ontario m6g 2l7 canada | http://twitter.com/Cg6Inc

co |  1416.238.6881  w |  www.cg6.com  |  padpholio.com/Cg6Inc  my |  about.me/tm.mahdi  e |  tm.m...@cg6.com   

*defining Cg6 Inc

"Socially influenced, media noted startup incubator for creative professionals. Our work involves turning working concepts into business

 models. We have been hired for technical and creative direction, staging and reaching the right people." We are known for our events, #WORD11, InitiativeTO & padpholio niche to name a few...

[Will Bennis, Locus Workspace]

Hi Sid,

Thought it would be worth sharing my "quiet room" story. Hopefully can
add something to all the wonderful diversity of points that have been
made.

I started my space after visiting several coworking-type spaces, one
of which was "The Office" in Santa Monica, which is really more of a
writers' space than a coworking space. The Office is pretty much
library silent, with single-person desks surrounding the room all
facing toward the center. It's completely different from a library
because you look towards everyone else and so feel the energy of the
concentrated work. It was energizing and focusing (and maybe guilt
provoking if you thought about doing something other than working).
Felt to me like a sanctuary a bit, too.

I wanted a room like that in my coworking space, so I christened a
quiet room. The quiet room was always the least crowded room in the
space, which didn't bother me because the other two rooms weren't full
and there were a couple of members who always worked there. Then those
members approached me and said they wished it wasn't a quiet room,
because they like to talk, and the only reason they work in there is
because it's a nice room. It was changed to a "provisionally quiet
room" where anyone working there can say they need quiet and everyone
has to honor it. The room was full the next day. Almost my entire
coworking space is quiet anyway, so people feel like every room is a
kind of quiet room.

A few years after visiting The Office and more than a year into having
my own coworking space, I visited Coloft, also in Santa Monica. Coloft
blew me away. There was the opposite of any quiet space. It seemed as
though every table had a group actively working together talking,
buzzing, collaborating. You could do quiet work if you wanted, but not
without headphones and a skill for tuning people out. Coloft is not a
place for a quiet room. Maybe a sound-proof booth for important calls.
The energy again was contageous, but this time in a very different
way. The buzz and sense of collaboration and activity in the space
felt alive and thriving. I wanted a Coloft room in my coworking
space!

So now we're talking about having a Noisy Room instead of a quiet
room. I get a lot of members who are very quiet. Not because they want
to be, but rather because they think it's the vibe of the place and
they wouldn't want to disturb other workers. Every room is a quiet
room not because people don't want to talk, but because they think no
one else wants them to talk. Well by no no one else does want them to
talk, because it's been that way long enough to feel like it's right.
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice environment and the people who are
members really like the space. And there's a lot of socializing and
collaborating. Just quiet and conscious of others in the space. I
still want a quiet room. But first we need our noisy room.

So what are the lessons? I guess two lessons have already been said:
First, what kind of room really does depend on your members (my
members don't really want or need the kind of room I was so attracted
to at The Office and wanted my members to want; nor do they want the
kind of noisy collaborative space like Coloft that I also want them to
want; but there are a hell of a lot of people who do want The Offices
and Colofts, they're just not at my space).

The second lesson is kind of the opposite: It depends on the kind of
members you want. The mantra that you should find out what your
members want is great up to a point, but if you have a vision of
something special you want to facilitate (as long as there's some
community out there within reach of your space that wants it too), you
might want to actively ignore what your members want and create the
right kind of space for the community you want (this isn't to disagree
with Alex's oft repeated and clearly correct point that you should try
to find and build that community before spending the money to build
the space for them and then to sustain it while it remains unfilled).
I probably don't ever want a space full of entrepreneurs trying to
build the next great thing (though it would be fun to be a part of
that), and so as much as I like the energy of Coloft, if I built a
space like that and it was a success, I'd probably always be a bit of
an outsider. I've lost members--and failed to get members--because the
space wasn't quiet enough, and I've failed to get members because the
space wasn't "actively collaborative" enough. No space is the best
space for everyone.

Lesson three has also already been said: It's all--in my opinion--an
experiment, and an experiment where the right mix is changing all the
time. So the more you can find a way to learn and adapt as you create
your space--and even after you've created just the right space--the
better. The biggest blunders I've seen in coworking happened because
people spent a lot of money to create just want they were sure
everyone else would want and need (and often with good reason), and it
was lost money that could have been used to keep them in business for
the extra few months they might have needed to succeed. (But then,
maybe the biggest successes were the few who did the same thing but
were lucky enough to make enough right bets.) If you're not aiming for
that one-in-ten-thousand coworking space recipes that that shoots you
to the top of the dog heap, though, my money's on keeping it flexible
and waiting to see what you need before you spend a lot building what
you may not need.

Just as an aside, the room there's clearly the most need for in our
space is neither a quiet room nor a noisy room, but a quiet room for
noisy people. We could really use a half-dozen or so one or two person
meeting rooms for people to be temporarily noisy but not be disturbed
by--or worry about disturbing--other noisy people when they have those
important business calls.

Will

[Sidi]

Thanks to everyone for all their answers, specially Will for a such a
comprehensive one. You have given me a lot to think about,and also a
lot of strong material to go back to the owner of the center.
Thanks again, and hope all the best for you!

Sidi

On Feb 1, 11:23 am, "Will Bennis, Locus Workspace"

[flip....@gmail.com]

It could be beneficial because it could be an area set aside for brainstorming purposes.

Flip Work LA
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Los Angeles,CA 90013

Cofounder: Ellaway Amiker
Cofounder: Jamal Kinney
Phone: (310)714-3856
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