Which Printer Is Best?
Michael Klar
and am looking for advice on the best models available. I want to use it
for printing photos as well as graphics.
The printers I've been looking at are HP 1220 series and the EPSON Stylus
Photo 2000P.
The price favours the HP 1220, as well as the fact that it appears to be
less finicky about the type of paper that can be used. Also, the ink
cartridges seem to be more widely available, i.e. the same cartridges are
used for a complete series of HP inkjet printers. However, and the fact
that HP has only 4 colours is of concern when it comes to printing photos.
Your input would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Michael
Sandy Menor
777 printer at home and it makes photos that look like I just picked them up
from the One Hour Photo store. The price for the quality is using the Epson
papers but the results are worth it. I can just imagine how fantastic the
same photos would look using a 6 color photo printer from Epson. Remember,
you often get what you pay for.
Sandy
"Michael Klar" <mik...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3b64bee3_1@cnews...
Michael Cervantes
when used with its Stylus RIP PostScript driver.
--
Michael Cervantes
C-Tech Volunteer
-----------------------------
Graeme Standage
<mik...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>....<
Epson all the way.
--
Graeme
{Please reply to newsgroup}
Bob Friedman
I agree with Michael. I picked up 2 epson 3000 printers a few months
ago. Excellent. Prints to 16.5" wide. Great for making photo proofs to
display stuff for mounting and lamaniting.
Epson is closing out this model and you can get them for less than
$1000.00us. (adverage price in the catalougs more or less $899.00 -
$995.00us.
Got mine on sale at Nova Crome for $799.00us. Refurbished models, came
with over $500.00us of ink.
Also at Publishers Toolbox.
Bob
"Michael Cervantes" <mcde...@tld.net> wrote in message
news:3b64e1db_1@cnews...
Mike Jacoubowsky
the consumables were quite a bit more expensive for those printers than for
the 1270/1280.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Bob Friedman" <webm...@pamspress.com> wrote in message
news:3b656413_2@cnews...
Sandy Menor
the net though and find some bargains for cartridges (as I have done for
both my 777 and my Stylus Pro XL at work). A lot of the prices are less than
half of the OEM cartridges. Believe me, the color output that you get on an
Epson is worth the extra money paid if you need the color to look good for
clients. If all you want is just some color for your documents and high
quality isn't a factor, go for the less expensive alternative.
Sandy
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3b663ccf$1_2@cnews...
Bob Friedman
The ink cartridges are more or less $134.00us each. You need four total
colors cmyk.
I have found that the ink is less expensive than other printers because
each color is it's own cartridge and when you run out of say cyan you just
replace the cyan.
The cartridges are large, each about the same size as a hard drive and a
little thicker, way more ink than those 3 color ones. Been printing quite a
lot with these and the original inks are only 1/2 spent.
The fact that you can print small label to wide format off a roll that
attaches in the back, it pays for itself within a week.
I have produced 16.5 x 36 printouts, mounted to gater board and
laminate. Kick ass display stuff. Also incredible posters for framing.
Print quality is excellent. All they have to do now is come up with ink
that is water safe. (laminate does that job now).
I think the price is down because they now have the new 2880dpi print
heads. 1440dpi is more than enough and I really cannot see the difference
when the image is good.
Bob
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3b663ccf$1_2@cnews...
Bob Friedman
6:20am and I thought starting at 8:00am was early. Cool.
Bob
"Sandy Menor" <sme...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3b66aead$1_3@cnews...
Sandy Menor
;) The rest of the day just goes to pot and sometimes I don't check the
groups or the e-mail until almost 5 o'clock. All I need is my coffee and my
laptop and life is good! ;)
Sandy
"Bob Friedman" <webm...@pamspress.com> wrote in message
news:3b66b236_3@cnews...
Ron Delpino
positive on matter) that all the colors the human eye can see can be created
in RGB....so I would think that ink printers printing with these basics
...plus black a cartrige ,can cover all colors....what is the advantage of a
printer with 6 color cartriges....the eye can't tell the difference.....can
anyone explain the abovethe need for any ...I thought it was just a
marketing technique to sell them...maybe I am wrong....any explanation
appreciated....Ron
--
take care....Ron
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3b663ccf$1_2@cnews...
Bob Friedman
Good for you. Piece and quite is a rare luxury. Spent some time
working for ESPN on the West coast. Was in Melpita, CA. (might not be
correct spelling) near SF.
Seems everybody out there ate dinner around 9:00pm plus, up real late and
got up at noon. (See what first impressions get you. <g> Must be the life
style of television production.
Bob
"Sandy Menor" <sme...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3b66bae0$1_2@cnews...
Bob Friedman
You are correct to the extent that that's what the eye can see. The big
question is what the eye see's it on and bear in mind how easy it is to
trick the eye. Those dithering magicians get you everytime. RGB will not
give you true black which is needed in many parts of a image and it's
associated effects. Think of a red rose or blood without black. A good
example is if you have access to a dye sub proof press. Print a proof in
rgb.
From what I have seen at printing shows, Seybold, etc. The additional
colors add to the speed of wide format printing and further enhance the
quality and clarity.
I am sure there is more to it than that. You should visit one of the
upper end shows, better than a kid at the circus.
Bob
"Ron Delpino" <ro...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3b66bd40$1_1@cnews...
Carlos Mier y Ponce
much much better than ordinary 4 colour printers. This is specialy noticable
in skin tones of a photograph.
So, more colors more color array to select from.
(I got that directly from Epson)
Ron Delpino
by side printed by lets say 4 print heads verse 6....and could you "really"
see the difference? I have not been in that situation but I probably could
not.tell the difference.....just curious if its my vision or
not....Probably, I am just not sure if most people could see the difference
....I think skilled pros might be able to rather from graphics or other
related fields...but most people on the street could not I believe. Maybe
some day I can go to one of those High Tech shows and check printers out on
the matter....take care...Ron
--
take care....Ron
"Bob Friedman" <webm...@pamspress.com> wrote in message
news:3b66c1bb_1@cnews...
Carlos Mier y Ponce
with make-up on (they do that on purpuse)
But it is realy not a big diference unless you constantly print portraits or
something like that.
You are right, for me the price diference was not wort it. Bought an Epson
1520 and I'm very pleased.
Bob Friedman
I have seen the 6 color printers at a few shows. I agree with Carlos.
In regard to what I call a normal print out, that being a photo or design
more or less 81/2 x 11 the difference is as compaired to a 4 color 1440dpi
printout so close that 95% of the people will not see it. No big deal and I
would not spend the extra bucks for it.
If you are dealing in wide format print, I mean the big stuff then
perhaps in makes sense. Epson now has the 2880dpi head. Compaired to the
1440dpi again on a normal size I don't get it. Actully the 720dpi looks just
fine. I would pay more attention to the color reproduction because color
matching is the biggest issue. The print must look like what's in the
clients head. (good luck)
There are many great shows going on and the exhibit halls are free. You
should make an effort to get to one. Seybold is real good in SF and Boston
as is the POP show in NYC. Print on demand is also in NY. You get to see
all the new stuff just released and soon to be released.
Bob
"Ron Delpino" <ro...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3b676549_3@cnews...
KNPepper
> just curious have you seen photos (flesh tones etc) side by
> side printed by lets say 4 print heads verse 6....and could you
> "really" see the difference?
At a distance of 25 cm (10 inches) the difference can be vast. At
two meters (six feet), perhaps not. To see why it is so, consider
what the two (or three) extra cartridges contain - simply diluted
concentrations (half) of the same Cyan and Magenta. Now consider
how two printers would handle a full-page gradation of cyan going
from 100% to 0. (Caution: The figures below are guess-timates.)
(a) Epson 980, 4 inks, 3 picoliter droplet size.
This will print quite smoothly up to the 40% point at which point
dithering will begin to show. At 10%, the dots will be quite
sparse and conspicuous. Then there will be a sudden cutoff at
around the 5% mark. (Printing 10 dots per inch is futile, so the
printer simply gives up.) This white band can be the ruin of a
good design in so far as printing a proof is concerned.
(b) Epson 780, 6 inks, 4 picoliter droplet size. (I mention the
droplet size to show that now we are talking about a cruder
nozzle, but observe what we get.)
At the 100% mark full strength ink is used. As the density drops,
both the full and half inks (in varying proportions) are used. In
theory, at the 50% mark the printer need only use the half ink at
100% density. In reality, in order to give texture uniformity
(dithering), both inks are used. Perhaps from 30% onward, only
the half ink is used. The net result is a smooooth gradation
(less conspicuous dithering) and certainly a much less drastic
cutoff.
What it means: A 4-ink portrait is noisy. A 6-ink portrait is
smoother and richer. The latter gives a strong illusion of twice
the actual resolution, despite the cruder nozzle.
Don't wish to be pig(ment) headed about it but 6 heads are better
than 4 for photos in general.
Regards,
K.N.Pepper
Ron Delpino
people could not really tell the difference on a lesser level in printing
sometime back and realized it made no sense for me to up my quality in inks,
printers etc. past a certain point because the individuals seeing the end
results could not tell the difference...and in some cases neither could
I....just my own thoughts on the matter. I guess it comes down to what and
who is going to be looking at ones product.news:3b67ff55_1@cnews...
Ron Delpino
--
take care....Ron
"Carlos Mier y Ponce" <arqi...@servidor.unam.mx> wrote in message
news:3b67945b_2@cnews...
Graeme Standage
wrote:
>
>Don't wish to be pig(ment) headed about it but 6 heads are better
>than 4 for photos in general.
And 1440dpi is streets ahead of 720dpi, but 2880dpi (not seen myself)
compared with 1440dpi, some say the jury is still out.
Carlos Mier y Ponce
If youre looking for extra realy very best print, I just saw a Solid Ink
sample....WOW.
The default setting for the print gives 1000 dpi resolution, and on brite
white paper (NOT glosy or photo) the out put looks like a magazine print,
Just amazing.
The price is a little high, but theres no comparizon here.
Check them out at www.xerox.com
By the way, they work with 4 colors.
Michael Klar
I'm more confused now than when I first asked the question. However, it's
been most interesting and I appreciate the thoughtful inputs. As Graeme and
Sandy said "Epson all the way" (guess it was Graeme that said it), you've
convinced me Epson is now my first choice.
Carlos, regarding your reference to Xerox's solid ink printers, yes, that's
one beauty of a printer. Wish I'd known about this before buying a new HP
LaserJet monster. This looks like it would fill that spot with the added
feature of color.
K.N.Pepper, your dissertation on 4 versus 6 color printing, in particular
your comment on 3 versus 4 picoliters droplet size, is the best explanation
I've seen so far.
Now that you made up my mind on Epson, which of the following models have
any of you had experience with; Epson Stylus 2000P and or Epson Stylus 1280?
Cheers,
Michael
"Graeme Standage" <gst...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:cu7amt07927o3g9j0...@4ax.com...
KNPepper
> K.N.Pepper, your dissertation on 4 versus 6 color printing ...
> is the best explanation I've seen so far.
Why, thank you Michael. If you can stand another...
I took Carlos' lead and went off to check out this Xerox printer.
(In a test we conducted a year ago, the lowly Epson convincingly
beat a Xerox printer in the 30K range.) Today's Xerox turned out
to be the legendary Phaser line (by the Tektronix crowd, renowned
for their oscilloscopes and printers). Whilst the site is vague
(actually completely silent) on the technology, the Phaser legacy
and the fact that they talk about solid ink sticks strongly
suggests sublimation imaging. (I have spoken at length with
Tektronix engineers in the past on this subject.)
(a) Sublimation (definition): Transition of a solid to gaseous
state without going through the liquid phase.
(b) Sublimation/dots per inch: In our discussions it became clear
that dpi was actually meaningless in the context of sublimation
as the transfer of pigment was virtually continuous and not
discrete as in the dots in laser and inkjet prints. This
continuum also means that there is no need for an extra set of
diluted colours. (The Phaser 860 does mention 1000 dpi but I
suppose it's like asa settings in digital cameras - an abstract
index of sorts. It may be capable of producing a one-thousandth
inch line.)
(c) Advantages: Near-continuous pigment transfer means the finest
gradation possible. Near-continuous gamut. Lab quality photo
printouts.
(d) Disadvantages: Shorter life (poor light fastness). Fragile
(very sensitive to finger oils). Not as vivid as inkjets,
therefore less desirable for illustrations.
The Phasers were always good. And the Epson has always been every
printer manufacturer's worst nightmare. If I ever do another test
I'll report back. By the way, a lot of good things have been said
about the Epson 1280, but curiously, the printout Epson sent me
is deplorable. Must be the drab subject matter.
Best regards,
K.N.Pepper
Carlos Mier y Ponce
but much less than other printers.
Dont know about the 2000 or 1280.
By the way FIRST look into the printable area and margins!!
I bought it so I could print 17" wide, and turns out that the hardware print
margines make that arround 13.5 and all my large prints have big side empty
spaces. This is because of the size of the print heads, they cant get all
the way over to the end.
Graeme Standage
<arqi...@servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>
>By the way FIRST look into the printable area and margins!!
>I bought it so I could print 17" wide, and turns out that the hardware print
>margines make that arround 13.5 and all my large prints have big side empty
>spaces. This is because of the size of the print heads, they cant get all
>the way over to the end.
The more recent Epson drivers/printers have a switch for maximum print
area. Allow printing upto 2 or 3 mm of the paper edge. They warn that
distortion may occur but I've never seen any - could be related to
subject matter though.
Carlos Mier y Ponce
I'm going to look for the new drivers right now
Did you get them from the epson drivers page?
Graeme Standage
I don't think the 1520 drivers will do this, it is an old printer
these day ;-)
The 900 and 1160 do this, the Pro XL+ doesn't (older). The 1520 I
installed for someone else is using PostScript so is the Adobeps
driver anyway - which does not.
Should imagine the standard 1520 driver still does not, but would be
very happy to be proved wrong!
Carlos Mier y Ponce
printable area....
I'll have to keep my big margins and say "That's the way I like the print
out".
Clemens M. Hürten
"Graeme Standage" <gst...@compuserve.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ntnjmt88jtlqv3n1p...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:36:38 -0500, "Carlos Mier y Ponce"
> <arqi...@servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>
> >hey! thanks.
> >I'm going to look for the new drivers right now
> >Did you get them from the epson drivers page?<
>
> I don't think the 1520 drivers will do this, it is an old printer
> these day ;-)
>
> The 900 and 1160 do this, the Pro XL+ doesn't (older). The 1520 I
> installed for someone else is using PostScript so is the Adobeps
> driver anyway - which does not.
In case it is a postscript device and you want to change the printable area,
you can open the printer ppd-file (by notepad) and do some editing in it.
PPD-files normally are structered very well and sometimes even are
self-explanatory.
Clemens
Graeme Standage
<clemens...@t-online.de> wrote:
>In case it is a postscript device and you want to change the printable area,
>you can open the printer ppd-file (by notepad) and do some editing in it.
>PPD-files normally are structered very well and sometimes even are
>self-explanatory.
Good point that I'd completely forgotten about and overlooked. In the
case of the 1520 user I mentioned I've not heard they are bothered.
Tend to printout on oversized paper with reg marks etc, so printing to
page edge does not really figure in things.
Michael Klar
Cheers,
Michael
"John Phillips" <jo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B6D97AF...@home.com...
> I have heard from an Epson supplier that it seems to be pickier thannormal
as to
> which paper you use. Try small packages of various brands, and stick with
what
> works.
> John
>
> Michael Klar wrote:
>
> > KNPepper, again your explanation of the technology used by Xerox is most
> > informative. Thank you.
> > Regarding the printer selection, I've pretty well decided on the Epson
1280.
> > Although, I must admit with some trepedation after reading your comment
> > about the "deplorable" printout you received from Epson. I'll give you
my
> > candid opinion after using it for a while.
> > Cheers,
> > Michael
> >
Michael Klar
informative. Thank you.
Regarding the printer selection, I've pretty well decided on the Epson 1280.
Although, I must admit with some trepedation after reading your comment
about the "deplorable" printout you received from Epson. I'll give you my
candid opinion after using it for a while.
Cheers,
Michael
"KNPepper" <KNPe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3b68c16d_3@cnews...
John Phillips
which paper you use. Try small packages of various brands, and stick with what
works.
John
Graeme Standage
wrote:
>I have heard from an Epson supplier that it seems to be pickier thannormal as to
>which paper you use.<<
Stick with Epson paper (although I have found a good supplier in the
UK for a very, very close equivalent. Above all, stick with Epson Ink
Carts.
Have tried various equivalents and comparing side by side on a good
paper stock, IMHO Epson always seems better.
Michael Klar
Cheers,
Michael
"Graeme Standage" <gst...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:bl7rmt0spjn49cuum...@4ax.com...