Losing current color after Eraser use
Jo Ann Snover
watercolor brushes trying to get some useful results) but I think the
following behavior is a bug in P7. I wondered (a) if anyone else sees it
and (b) anyone figured out a way around it?
When I work with a watercolor brush and select a color from the picture
(Alt-click on the color I want), I can paint with that color. Then
select one of the watercolor erasers and the current color is changed.
Switch back to my watercolor brush and it now will paint with that
changed color - I found myself painting with bright blue instead of
flesh tones!
P6 couldn't pick up a color from the wet layer, but if you picked up a
color elsewhere, it wouldn't "go away" if you used the Wet Eraser. I
can't imagine how the P7 behavior could be a feature instead of a bug?!
Jo Ann
Matt McElligott
> watercolor brushes trying to get some useful results) but I think the
> following behavior is a bug in P7. I wondered (a) if anyone else sees it
> and (b) anyone figured out a way around it?
Hi Jo Ann,
After reading your message I gave it a try. My results...
a) I do see the problem. It seems that whenever you select a watercolor
eraser variant, Painter switches the color to white.
b) I haven't been able to figure out a solution. I tried copying the eraser
variants and deselecting "save current colors" with no luck. It seems that
all the watercolor erasers default to white, and in the process you lose
whatever color you had previously selected.
Maybe you could make a color set of your most frequently used colors so you
can reselect them accurately?
Matt
Jinny Brown
I have the same experience when first painting with the Watercolors'
Diffuse Camel, then switching to Watercolors' Eraser Dry. The minute
that Eraser variant is chosen, the current Primary Color reverts to to
the last used Primary Color. It didn't revert to the Secondary Color
because I made sure that it was white and picked two definite colors as
the two "last used" > "current" > "new/last used" Primary Colors.
I've searched through the manual and online help (same thing, I think)
and can't find anything in-depth on the Watercolor brushes and certainly
nothing that covers this rather unexpected detail.
It works so smoothly and is so repeatable, I have a feeling that it's
not a bug and am guessing it has something to do with the fact that
Painter 7 Watercolor variants, except for the Wet Eraser, all interact
with the Paper grain.
Maybe that's just a wild guess and dead wrong but what do we have to
work with so far? <g>
If there's some in-depth information on the Watercolor variants and
controls that came with Painter 7, I haven't found it yet. Hopefully, if
we can't find someone from Corel (who knows the program) to explain this
to us, one of the Beta testers will know.
In the meantime, I had a lot of fun playing and this testing and
searching led me to all kinds of other neat things (too mind-boggled to
remember them all now.. but having to do with both the Watercolor and
Liquid Ink brushes).
Thanks for bring this up. :o)
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________
Jo Ann Snover
I actually found different colors for different erasers (I think the dry
eraser for me was blue, the wet eraser was white)
> Maybe you could make a color set of your most frequently used colors so you
> can reselect them accurately?
I think that's a good workaround - although it's always a little
irritating to have to make that extra step just because of software
quirks.
Regarding Jinny's comment that it has to be intentional because it's so
predictable, I would still hope it wasn't. Some bugs are easily
reproducible and predictable (they're the easy ones to find and fix) and
others are very hard to pin down. Often the predictable, easily
reproducible ones get fixed prior to release.
It would be nice to get some Corel comment on whether this is a bug or a
feature - and if it is intended to be a feature, why they thought it was
a good idea for it to work this way?
thanks for the workaround suggestion,
Jo Ann
Matt McElligott
Here's another work-around. It's not perfect, but it works:
Before you select one of the watercolor erasers, press Shift-X to swap the
foreground and background colors. Draw with the eraser, then when you go
back to your watercolor brush press Shift-X again to swap the colors back.
This way, you can use the secondary color to temporarily store your color
while you erase.
Matt
Jo Ann Snover
Thank you for the suggestion, but it doesn't work for me. I see some
truly bizarre behavior with the water color erasers and the background
colors. When I switch to Eraser Wet or Eraser Grainy, I get both
foreground and background set to white. Eraser Dry seems to "remember"
the background color from the first time I switched to it and hangs on
to it while setting the foreground white. Even if I try to change to a
new background color (to save it) Eraser Dry stubbornly holds on to the
first one I switched to it with.
I'll make color sets rather than waste any more time on this, but this
has got to be something for the first service pack :-)
Jo Ann
Jinny Brown
Good fix. Thanks. It won't take much to do it that way and it's a lot
less risky than accidentally painting with the wrong color.
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________
Jinny Brown
Was your last used color white or blue? In my test, the color didn't
revert to either white or blue because neither of those colors was my
last used color (prior to the color I used when painting and before
choosing the Eraser Dry variant.. that's when it changed to the last
used color).
I, too, am hoping that someone from Corel will respond to this question,
though I haven't sent it to them yet. Waiting to see if (providing
someone who knows Painter 7 well actually does read this newsgroup) they
come forth with an explanation.
(Haven't read all the newsgroup mail yet so forgive me, Corel, if you've
already done this.)
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________
Jo Ann Snover
I read the explanation from the developer of the wet erasers on your web
site. It was very nice that he provided some background, but I still
think that the behavior is what I used to call a "misfeature" when I
worked in the software business - it isn't a bug in the sense that the
developers intended the code to work that way, but the end result is
still totally and uterly counterintuitive to the end user.
I think the explanation amounted to saying that because certain painter
internals behave as they do, the simplest thing to do was expose those
internals to the user and call it a feature. It's not even an option (if
the bug weren't there regarding turning off save current colors) to
switch off the save colors for the erasers because then _they_ won't
work. The only good solution is for the internals of how the erasers
work (that they need certain colors) to become invisible to the user and
the colors you have before erasing are still there when you return to
that brush right after erasing. If they need to switch them internally,
and save the current color to restore it behind the scenes, that's just
fine.
I also don't think this behavior can be attributed to the "be more like
real watercolors" movement. The erasers are wonderful, but are a purely
digital phenomenon. I'd bet that if they presented the current behavior
to a group of artists and asked them whether the current behavior was
what they'd expected, not _one_ would say yes. I understand that
sometimes you have to let software out the door when it isn't exactly
the way you want it, but to turn around and justify the way it works as
"good" when it requires a lengthy explanation to even try and make sense
of it didn't appeal to me.
regards,
Jo Ann
Thelonious Hink
wrote on 01/9/2001 8:50 AM:
>......
> I think the explanation amounted to saying that because certain painter
> internals behave as they do, the simplest thing to do was expose those
> internals to the user and call it a feature. It's not even an option (if
> the bug weren't there regarding turning off save current colors) to
> switch off the save colors for the erasers because then _they_ won't
> work. The only good solution is for the internals of how the erasers
> work (that they need certain colors) to become invisible to the user and
> the colors you have before erasing are still there when you return to
> that brush right after erasing. If they need to switch them internally,
> and save the current color to restore it behind the scenes, that's just
> fine.
This is fascinating to hear. I don't know if it is true or not but this is
the same thing that was done with the vis mask, ie exposing the inner
workings etc.
This then begs the question, did Corel say to themselves "we got away with
that one, lets try it again". So instead of fixing the vis mask issue they
left it alone and did the same thing again with another tool. This is really
too much. Does one laugh or cry. I guess the answer to that depends on
whether your name is corrine or corel.
T