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ASP: Sapir Whorf
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Arik  
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 More options Nov 10 2006, 2:38 pm
From: "Arik" <ar...@bgu.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:38:33 -0800
Local: Fri, Nov 10 2006 2:38 pm
Subject: ASP: Sapir Whorf
Hi all,
    My name is Arik Cohen, and I am a semanticist from Ben-Gurion
University, Israel. I heard about this project, and am fascinated.
    I have never tried to design a language myself, but I have just
taught an introductory course on "linguistics through science fiction".
This course was aimed at students who had had no previous exposure to
linguistics, and I was happily surprised by how effective the imaginary
languages and scenarios depicted in SF and fantasy can be in conveying
substantial concepts of real world linguistics. So I am very much in
support of this project, and I would like to help. I would be
interested in writing an essay for ASP on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis,
and how it is used (and misused) in fictional languages and modes of
communication.

  Arik


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Sai Emrys  
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 More options Nov 10 2006, 2:55 pm
From: "Sai Emrys" <sai...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:55:28 -0800
Local: Fri, Nov 10 2006 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: [CLBP] ASP: Sapir Whorf
Arik -

Glad to see you here. :-)

> I would be interested in writing an essay for ASP on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis,
> and how it is used (and misused) in fictional languages and modes of
> communication.

Could you elaborate on this - e.g. a sketch of an outline, topics or
examples you'd want to cover?

 - Sai


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Sally Caves  
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 More options Nov 12 2006, 12:29 am
From: "Sally Caves" <Piman...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 05:29:34 -0000
Local: Sun, Nov 12 2006 12:29 am
Subject: Re: ASP: Sapir Whorf
Hello, Arik!  Did you (of course) use Walter Meyer's wonderful book
_Aliens and Linguists_ in your class?
Sally

On Nov 10, 2:38 pm, "Arik" <a...@bgu.ac.il> wrote:


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Arik  
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 More options Nov 14 2006, 10:39 am
From: "Arik" <ar...@bgu.ac.il>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:39:21 -0800
Local: Tues, Nov 14 2006 10:39 am
Subject: Re: ASP: Sapir Whorf

On Nov 12, 7:29 am, "Sally Caves" <Piman...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, Arik!  Did you (of course) use Walter Meyer's wonderful book
> _Aliens and Linguists_ in your class?
> Sally

   Yes, "of course" is appropriate - it's a great resource.
Unfortunately, this book is more than a quarter century old now, so it
misses out on much interesting SF, as well as on more recent linguistic
theory. Also, it has a very specific take on many issues which, while
legitimate, is not the only possible one.
   In answer to Sai's question, here is one example of the sort of
thing I have in mind. In Ted Chiang "Story of Your Life", there is a
description of a written language where every letter forms part of all
the words in the sentence. Hence, when you start to write a sentence in
this language, you have to know exactly what the end product will look
like. Obviously, writing in such a language would be fiendishly
difficult for humans (though see below); it would be easy for creatures
that could actually foresee the future, as indeed the aliens who use
this language are. With great ingenuity, Chiang portrays the
implications of such a world view, for instance on the physics of the
aliens. But more so, in an extreme case of Sapir-Whorf fashion, the
protagonist who learns this language adopts this world view, and can
actually see the future. Now, the idea is extreme, and highly
implausible; in fact, I understand that Sai is developing a language
along simiar lines, but I will be very surprised to learn that, as a
consequence, he can foretell future events ;)  However, it is very
useful as a thought experiment in the almost self defeating attempt to
visualize fundsmentally different ways of viewing the world, and
fundamentally different languages, and the possible relations between
them.

  Arik


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Sai Emrys  
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 More options Nov 14 2006, 1:16 pm
From: "Sai Emrys" <sai...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:16:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [CLBP] Re: ASP: Sapir Whorf
On 11/14/06, Arik <ar...@bgu.ac.il> wrote:

> Now, the idea is extreme, and highly
> implausible; in fact, I understand that Sai is developing a language
> along simiar lines, but I will be very surprised to learn that, as a
> consequence, he can foretell future events ;)

Let me just say that I cannot now, as far as I know... but that, if
Chiang is correct, I would not tell you if I could... ;-)

(As a minor quibble: *some* of the strokes appear to be involved in
multiple [perhaps all] parts of the sentence-symbol. But not all in
all.)

One could ask whether Arabic calligraphers experience any such shift -
or whether Heptapod B is somehow even more [relevantly] different from
what they do, since they were cited as an example of this predictive
requirement...

- Sai


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