WSJournal this-weekend article on a Christian convert from Islam (& Hamas)

[Willis E. Elliott]

Sorry if you didn't get the FULL article.

Here's how to get it:

opinion journal mosab hassan yousef (the 2nd item)

+++

available for 7 days (but not necessarily as the 2nd item)

 

Grace and peace--

Willis

[Jean Easland]

Anyone: here is a dandy from Anthony M. Coniaris:

 

Jesus came to earth to tell us:

 

You give me your time, and I will give you my eternity. You give me your weary body, and I will give you rest. You give me your sins, and I will give you forgiveness. You give me your broken heart, and I will give you healing. You give me your emptiness, and I will give you my fullness. You give me your humanity, and I will give you my divinity.

[Willis E. Elliott]

Great!  Thanks, Roger.

 

Grace and peace--

Willis

[herb.davis]

Sermon Note: Mar.14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke 15:1-3,11b-32   

 

This is truly an offensive parable.  Grace is always offensive, it under cuts justice and fairness.  Grace makes the church an offensive institution.  The Pharisees have a serious point.  They are sick and tried of tax collectors and sinners getting off free.  They are deeply concerned about the righteousness of the community.  It is essential for the moral instruction of our youth that disobedience be properly punished.  It is critical for our economical system that those who make risky decision bear the gains or losses.  American people are sick and tried of big bankers and Wall Street being rewarded with big bonuses after they have squandered the wealth of the main street people.  Jesus refuses to honor the moral truth that one should accept the consequence of one's decisions.  This parable is not about a wayward son or a self righteous son but about an outrageously gracious father.  Grace offends a culture of law and the cultural of law is so powerful that it is always creeping into the church.  To hear this parable we need to be seated with the sinners and tax collectors.  

 

The parable is so powerful it can speak for itself.  We do not need to rehash it in the pulpit, but we do need to allow the congregation to sneak by the custom  of hiding the offense by focusing on the the sons need for freedom, for space to grow up, for opportunity to make mistakes.  We need to remember that both Jews and Christians had ways to restore sinners to the fold.  Both communities have rites of repentance and restoration but seldom do they include music and dancing.  Its the sound of music and dancing that upsets the older brother.  It's really embarrassing to have more joy over one sinner who is found than ninety and nine righteous.

 

When we focus on the sons we miss we will end up with a win/lose result.  The parable begins with, :\"There was a man who had two sons."  This is not an either or tale, Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, homosexual or heterosexual.  The father has two sons.  He loves them both.  He goes out to them both.  God loves both. 
  

Finally death is not the worse possible condition, lost is.  Now only was the son dead but alive, but lost and found.  Being lost is worse than being dead.  To find the lost sheep or the lost coin is a cause for joy, it is the source of music and dance and feast.  To be found is an over whelming moment of joy.  What a reason for evangelism, to find the lost who are often those, "Who thank God they are not like..." to welcome with joy the other who is loved by the Father.

 

Any additions or corrections?  Any liturgical resources?  Peace, Herb

[Timothy Haut]

Herb,

 

This is a beautiful phrase you have written (it stopped me in my tracks):

 

"death is not the worse possible condition, lost is."

 

That's my sermon for Sunday.  Thanks!

 

Tim Haut

[link...@aol.com]

Dear Herb,

I'm still working on this reading, but want to point out that this
third in the series of "lost and found" (15:6, 9, 32) uses "was dead
and has come to life" to intensify the expression of the depth of the
father's joy at the restoration of his youngest son, in his reply to
the angry elder whose resentment toward the father surfaces so
powerfully. In other words, it reads something like this, "this
brother of yours was DEAD, and has come to LIFE-- he was lost [to me,
to you, to the whole house of his father] and has been found [by me,
by you, by the whole house of his father]. For the son to be lost to
the father is for the son to die; for the son to be found by the
father is for the son to live. For the tax collectors, sinners at
that, to come to hear Jesus, well, that is resurrection from the dead!
That is how mightily they stood in need of repentance, and why heaven
rejoices at the manifestation of the powerful and diligent compassion
of God finding the heart of the lost. How can any one not celebrate
the resurrection of one's brother, the manifestation of the care and
power of one's father?!

God bless!

Jim

[Jean Easland]

Herb: I find your sermon as beautiful as that Canadian Ice dancing couple who celebrated the symmetry and beauty of human possibility in the midst of a death dealing world! The offense of offering ANYONE reversal of corruption as a free gift is miraculous and shocking. The Waiting father equalizes the son's by the force of love. We all have both son's within us so we all need the purifying act of God in baptism/Eucharist/sanctification, the unending dance of the Trinity reconciling and redeeming all humanity and all creation to through God's freedom and love. What I am working on right now is how prayer opens our inner life to the outer life of God in others and creation; the re-establishment of the new Adam in Christ by our death to self in baptism and the rising to receive the Holy Spirit for daily life in the process of becoming the "likeness" of Jesus Christ as the last corruption of the flesh is removed at the second coming (resurrection).  The stuff of books that we try to put in sermons. Thanks for your help along the way. Also for your addition Jim. Blessing from the soggy prairie where green grass is miraculously appearing from under the drifts of snow-------------Roger

[Jean Easland]

Tim: Great to hear you voice. If you saw that testimony on CNN by the author of "Son of Hamas" that is a direct quote from the Amanpour interview from the new convert to Christianity. 

     Have you kept up with Athanasus?. He has a DVD of his last trip to Sudan. I am still working along with S.D. Conference Minister Marc Stewart at putting some package together for his missionary work in the Sudan and pastoral work in Sioux Falls. Where are you at with this? Blessings on however the Spirit is leading on this. I still suffer the fog of not knowing for sure what my role is in this one. Anyway bless your preaching I wish I could be there to hear your heart warming sermon! Blessings Tim, if you feel like it I will call you on this, I could sure use your wise advice as I usually crash into things like a bull in a China shop--------------Roger

[Willis E. Elliott]

Herb, an excellent job of conveying the SHOCK of grace as amoral (i.e., beyond the sphere of morality).  Social stability demands the "moral instruction...disobedience be properly punished," but Jesus is into social INstability: the kingdom of God "on earth as it is in heaven" DEstabilizes: the commotion Jesus caused was one of the currents which some 40 years later saw the death of Temple Judaism (& the birth of Rabbinic Judaism).

 

Let's use your word "moral" & its two prefixes to tell the parable:

1

The parable is AMORAL, "sinners getting off free" & "an outrageously gracious father" (as you say).

2

The vs.1 NLT "tax collectors and other notorious sinners" are IMMORAL.

3

The vs.2 NLT "the Pharisees and teachers of religious law" are MORAL.

4

Also vs.2 NLT, Jesus' associational behavior is AMORAL: morality has nothing to do with his choice of whom to associate & eat with.  In life & death, he is a minister of grace (unmerited favor/forgiveness) to sinners.

 

This is what astonished  Mosab Hassan Yousef & converted him from Islam to Christianity.  "I found that I was really drawn to the grace, love and humility that Jesus talked about" - drawn as he read the Arabic/English-parallel NT a British cabbie in Jerusalem gave him ("and invited him to attend a bible-study session," says the WSJ 6-7 Mar 10 article, "They Need to Be Liberated From Their God").  /   SIDEBAR: It's natural for an ex-devotee to attack the old deity.  Yousef attacks Allah, & I've heard ex-Christian Muslims attack the Trinity.  The Trinity & Allah are so radically different that it's a shock every time I hear or read that "Christians and Muslims worship the same God."  As Muslim missions to Christians seek to liberate us from the Trinity, Christian missions to Muslims seek to liberate them from Allah.  And both forms of mission are on the increase in the U.S.  Noteworthy also, & to be encouraged, are interfaith efforts such as Eboo Patel's Youth Core.

 

Grace and peace--

Willis

----- Original Message -----

From: herb.davis

To: confessi...@googlegroups.com

   

Subject: RE: Sermon Note: March 14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke 15:1-3,11b-32

[Richard Floyd]

Herb,

This is one of your best notes and they are always good.

Today I  stole some of your thoughts, added a great quote from Gabe's Foreword to my atonement book, and a few of my own ruminations for this morning's blog,

which can be found at:  http://richardlfloyd.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-gods-love-fair-ruminations-on.html

Title:  Is God's Love Fair.  I tried to tie the Prodigal Son story into the larger story of the atonement with help from Gabe.

I hardly ever preach anymore, but though you can take the boy out of the pulpit, you can't take the pulpit out of the boy (or girl for that matter).

Thanks for your good reflections.

And what is the sound of dancing?

Grace and Peace,

Rick

P.S.  I was cleaning out my mailbox last night and found a post where you said that my saying a pastor has to try to love his or her congregants was “romantic.”

That is an insult, of course, but only because we have just the one word for love in English.  I meant “agape,” and there is nothing romantic about it.

[link...@aol.com]

Dear Friends,

I'm not so fond of all this proposed oppostion between fairness and
grace, in the father, or in God. The elder son accuses the father of
being ungracious toward him, precisely because he seems to the elder
to be so obviously not fair: "Look, these many years I have served
you, and I never ever disobeyed your command, and you never ever gave
me a kid, so that I might make merry with my friends. When this son of
yours , who has devoured your living with prostitutes, comes, you
slaughtered for him the fatted calf." (Notice how many times the
"fatted calf" is mentioned, to which the elder opposes the non-giving
of a mere kid--the slaughter or giving of an animal represents the
gracious act of free self-giving, seemingly arbitrary, so far as the
elder is concerned; the elder does not protest the father's
unfairness, just that has not been unfair, gracious, to him, as to
the younger). To which the father replies that he is fair in his
grace, and gracious in his fairness: "Child, you yourself are with me
always, and all that is mind is yours. It was fitting ( Edei) to party
and rejoice, for this brother of yours was DEAD and became ALIVE, he
was lost and has been found.

Jim the Link

On Mar 10, 8:52 am, Richard Floyd <rfl...@berkshire.rr.com> wrote:
> Herb,
>
> This is one of your best notes and they are always good.
>
> Today I  stole some of your thoughts, added a great quote from Gabe's Foreword to my atonement book, and a few of my own ruminations for this morning's blog,
>

> which can be found at:  http://richardlfloyd.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-gods-love-fair-ruminatio...

> > Any additions or corrections?  Any liturgical resources?  Peace, Herb- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[link...@aol.com]

P.S.

The elder son is more or less saying to the father: "You don't give a
kid about me!" :)

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Richard Floyd]

Good one.

[herb.davis]

Dear Jim, Thanks for the comments on the sermon note. Just a couple of
responses to keep us confused.
1. On the matter of lost and found. In a sense all three parable in Luke
15 has a lost focus. One would expect that the emphasis would be on dead
but alive, but parable ends not with "dead but alive" but "he was lost and
has been found." This emphasis seems to suggest that there is a condition
worse than death, that is being lost, and there is a state higher than lie
that is being found, being loved, being in the arms of the father.

2. I am not sure of your insight on fairness. If seems to me if the elder
son is seeking fairness he gets the short end of the stick. I think if we
are seeking fairness we get the same. It is strange how a son that enjoys
all the blessing of being in relationship with the father can stand the
music and the dancing. Or for that matter we can't stand the late comer
getting the same pay as the one who worked all day. I think Luke is calling
us to see the world and God in a different way, not a fair God but a
gracious God. Maybe we are in agreement on this. Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: confessi...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:confessi...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of link...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:36 AM
To: Confessing Christ Open Forum
Subject: Re: Sermon Note: March 14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke
15:1-3,11b-32

Dear Friends,

I'm not so fond of all this proposed oppostion between fairness and
grace, in the father, or in God. The elder son accuses the father of
being ungracious toward him, precisely because he seems to the elder
to be so obviously not fair: "Look, these many years I have served
you, and I never ever disobeyed your command, and you never ever gave
me a kid, so that I might make merry with my friends. When this son of
yours , who has devoured your living with prostitutes, comes, you
slaughtered for him the fatted calf." (Notice how many times the
"fatted calf" is mentioned, to which the elder opposes the non-giving
of a mere kid--the slaughter or giving of an animal represents the
gracious act of free self-giving, seemingly arbitrary, so far as the
elder is concerned; the elder does not protest the father's
unfairness, just that has not been unfair, gracious, to him, as to
the younger). To which the father replies that he is fair in his
grace, and gracious in his fairness: "Child, you yourself are with me
always, and all that is mind is yours. It was fitting ( Edei) to party
and rejoice, for this brother of yours was DEAD and became ALIVE, he
was lost and has been found.

Jim the Link

On Mar 10, 8:52�am, Richard Floyd <rfl...@berkshire.rr.com> wrote:
> Herb,
>
> This is one of your best notes and they are always good.
>

> Today I �stole some of your thoughts, added a great quote from Gabe's

Foreword to my atonement book, and a few of my own ruminations for this
morning's blog,
>
> which can be found at:

�http://richardlfloyd.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-gods-love-fair-ruminatio...
>
> Title: �Is God's Love Fair. �I tried to tie the Prodigal Son story into

the larger story of the atonement with help from Gabe.
>
> I hardly ever preach anymore, but though you can take the boy out of the
pulpit, you can't take the pulpit out of the boy (or girl for that matter).
>
> Thanks for your good reflections.
>
> And what is the sound of dancing?
>
> Grace and Peace,
>
> Rick
>

> P.S. �I was cleaning out my mailbox last night and found a post where you

said that my saying a pastor has to try to love his or her congregants was

�romantic.�

>
> That is an insult, of course, but only because we have just the one word

for love in English. �I meant �agape,� and there is nothing romantic about

it.
>
> On Mar 9, 2010, at 10:38 AM, herb.davis wrote:
>
>
>

> > Sermon Note: Mar.14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke 15:1-3,11b-32 �
>
> > This is truly an offensive parable. �Grace is always offensive, it under
cuts justice and fairness. �Grace makes the church an offensive institution.
�The Pharisees have a serious point. �They are sick and tried of tax
collectors and sinners getting off free. �They are deeply concerned about
the righteousness of the community. �It is essential for the moral
instruction of our youth that disobedience be properly punished. �It is

critical for our economical system that those who make risky decision bear

the gains or losses. �American people are sick and tried of big bankers and

Wall Street being rewarded with big bonuses after they have squandered the

wealth of the main street people. �Jesus refuses to honor the moral truth
that one should accept the consequence of one's decisions. �This parable is

not about a wayward son or a self righteous son but about an outrageously

gracious father. �Grace offends a culture of law and the cultural of law is
so powerful that it is always creeping into the church. �To hear this
parable we need to be seated with the sinners and tax collectors. �
>
> > The parable is so powerful it can speak for itself. �We do not need to

rehash it in the pulpit, but we do need to allow the congregation to sneak

by the custom �of hiding the offense by focusing on the the sons need for
freedom, for space to grow up, for opportunity to make mistakes. �We need to

remember that both Jews and Christians had ways to restore sinners to the

fold. �Both communities have rites of repentance and restoration but seldom
do they include music and dancing. �Its the sound of music and dancing that
upsets the older brother. �It's really embarrassing to have more joy over

one sinner who is found than ninety and nine righteous.
>
> > When we focus on the sons we miss we will end up with a win/lose result.

�The parable begins with, :\"There was a man who had two sons." �This is not

an either or tale, Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, homosexual or heterosexual.

�The father has two sons. �He loves them both. �He goes out to them both.
�God loves both.
>
> > Finally death is not the worse possible condition, lost is. �Now only
was the son dead but alive, but lost and found. �Being lost is worse than
being dead. �To find the lost sheep or the lost coin is a cause for joy, it
is the source of music and dance and feast. �To be found is an over whelming
moment of joy. �What a reason for evangelism, to find the lost who are often

those, "Who thank God they are not like..." to welcome with joy the other
who is loved by the Father.
>

> > Any additions or corrections? �Any liturgical resources? �Peace, Herb-

[link...@aol.com]

Dear Herb,

You are absolutely right that is a condition worse than physical
death, I am not denying that; but the point is that in being lost the
younger son was dead: "lost and found" explains "dead and alive" In
other words, the father says, "This is a matter of life and of death--
he was lost and he has been found!"

The only law the father breaks is the law of sin and death,in the
power of his free love in which his father finds him when he is far
away.

Barth encourages us to read the parable Christologically, not
allegorically, moralistically or idealistically, (not an idea of grace
or forgiveness or law, but its reality) to look at "the concrete
situation" and the "horizon" under which we see the dubious story of
the younger son, which is "a sorry caricature" but nevertheless a
analogy of Jesus Christ (all our repentance is a caricature of Jesus
Christ's repentance) The younyer son goes into the far country, as
Jesus, the Son of God, is in the far country, eating with sinners,
being accused Likewise, he is the Son of Man returning to the father:
tt says, "rises up" to go to his father: Jesus is the resurrection and
the life, surrounded by those rising up from death in repentance.
Listen to the ending, in the light of Jesus Christ, surrounded by the
tax collectors, sinners, who have come near to listen to him, whom he
welcomes and with whom he eats, to the disgust of the pharisees and
scribes. We, who question the graciousness and righteousness of our
father, the father of our brother Jesus Christ, hear an invitation
from the father of this, this!, our brother: :"It has become right to
celebrate and party, for this your brother was dead and came alive--
was lost and has been found." Let's party in the father's house,
celebrating our risen brother!

God bless you, my brother.

Jim the LInk

On Mar 11, 8:30 am, "herb.davis" <herb.da...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Dear Jim,  Thanks for the comments on the sermon note.  Just a couple of
> responses to keep us confused.
> 1.  On the matter of lost and found.  In a sense all three parable in Luke
> 15 has a lost focus.  One would expect that the emphasis would be on dead
> but alive, but parable ends not with "dead but alive" but "he was lost and
> has been found."  This emphasis seems to suggest that there is a condition
> worse than death, that is being lost, and there is a state higher than lie
> that is being found, being loved, being in the arms of the father.
>
> 2.  I am not sure of your insight on fairness.  If seems to me if the elder
> son is seeking fairness he gets the short end of the stick.  I think if we
> are seeking fairness we get the same.  It is strange how a son that enjoys
> all the blessing of being in relationship with the father can stand the
> music and the dancing.  Or for that matter we can't stand the late comer
> getting the same pay as the one who worked all day.  I think Luke is calling
> us to see the world and God in a different way, not a fair God but a
> gracious God.  Maybe we are in agreement on this.  Herb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: confessi...@googlegroups.com
>

> [mailto:confessi...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of linkc...@aol.com

> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:36 AM
> To: Confessing Christ Open Forum
> Subject: Re: Sermon Note: March 14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke
> 15:1-3,11b-32
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> I'm not so fond of all this proposed oppostion between fairness and
> grace, in the father, or in God. The elder son  accuses the father of
> being ungracious toward him, precisely because he seems to the elder
> to be so obviously not fair: "Look, these many years I have served
> you, and I never ever disobeyed your command, and you never ever gave
> me a kid, so that I might make merry with my friends. When this son of
> yours , who has devoured your living with prostitutes, comes, you
> slaughtered for him the fatted calf." (Notice how many times the
> "fatted calf" is mentioned, to which the elder opposes the non-giving
> of a mere kid--the slaughter or giving of an animal represents the
> gracious act of free self-giving, seemingly arbitrary, so far as the
> elder is concerned; the elder does not protest the father's
> unfairness, just that  has not been unfair, gracious, to him, as to
> the younger). To which the father replies that he is fair in his
> grace, and gracious in his fairness: "Child, you yourself are with me
> always, and all that is mind is yours. It was fitting ( Edei) to party
> and rejoice, for this brother of yours was DEAD and became ALIVE, he
> was lost and has been found.
>
> Jim the Link
>

> On Mar 10, 8:52 am, Richard Floyd <rfl...@berkshire.rr.com> wrote:
> > Herb,
>
> > This is one of your best notes and they are always good.
>

> > Today I stole some of your thoughts, added a great quote from Gabe's

> Foreword to my atonement book, and a few of my own ruminations for this
> morning's blog,
>

> > which can be found at:http://richardlfloyd.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-gods-love-fair-ruminatio...
>
> > Title: Is God's Love Fair. I tried to tie the Prodigal Son story into

> the larger story of the atonement with help from Gabe.
>
> > I hardly ever preach anymore, but though you can take the boy out of the
> pulpit, you can't take the pulpit out of the boy (or girl for that matter).
>
> > Thanks for your good reflections.
>
> > And what is the sound of dancing?
>
> > Grace and Peace,
>
> > Rick
>

> > P.S. I was cleaning out my mailbox last night and found a post where you

> said that my saying a pastor has to try to love his or her congregants was

> romantic.

>
> > That is an insult, of course, but only because we have just the one word

> for love in English. I meant agape, and there is nothing romantic about

> it.
>
> > On Mar 9, 2010, at 10:38 AM, herb.davis wrote:
>
> > > Sermon Note: Mar.14, Fourth Sunday in Lent, Luke 15:1-3,11b-32
>

> > > This is truly an offensive parable. Grace is always offensive, it under
> cuts justice and fairness. Grace makes the church an offensive institution.
> The Pharisees have a serious point. They are sick and tried of tax
> collectors and sinners getting off free. They are deeply concerned about
> the righteousness of the community. It is essential for the moral
> instruction of our youth that disobedience be properly punished. It is

> critical for our economical system that those who make risky decision bear

> the gains or losses. American people are sick and tried of big bankers and

> Wall Street being rewarded with big bonuses after they have squandered the

> wealth of the main street people. Jesus refuses to honor the moral truth
> that one should accept the consequence of one's decisions. This parable is

> not about a wayward son or a self righteous son but about an outrageously

> gracious father. Grace offends a culture of law and the cultural of law is
> so powerful that it is always creeping into the church. To hear this

> parable we need to be seated with the sinners and tax collectors.
>

> > > The parable is so powerful it can speak for itself. We do not need to

> rehash it in the pulpit, but we do need to allow the congregation to sneak

> by the custom of hiding the offense by focusing on the the sons need for
> freedom, for space to grow up, for opportunity to make mistakes. We need to

> remember that both Jews and Christians had ways to restore sinners to the

> fold. Both communities have rites of repentance and restoration but seldom
> do they include music and dancing. Its the sound of music and dancing that
> upsets the older brother. It's really embarrassing to have more joy over

> one sinner who is found than ninety and nine righteous.
>
> > > When we focus on the sons we miss we will end up with a win/lose result.

> The parable begins with, :\"There was a man who had two sons." This is not

> an either or tale, Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, homosexual or heterosexual.

> The father has two sons. He loves them both. He goes out to them both.
> God loves both.
>
> > > Finally death is not the worse possible condition, lost is. Now only
> was the son dead but alive, but lost and found. Being lost is worse than
> being dead. To find the lost sheep or the lost coin is a cause for joy, it
> is the source of music and dance and feast. To be found is an over whelming
> moment of joy. What a reason for evangelism, to find the lost who are often

> those, "Who thank God they are not like..." to welcome with joy the other
> who is loved by the Father.
>

> > > Any additions or corrections? Any liturgical resources? Peace, Herb-
> Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Jean Easland]

Jim: Eastern Orthodox use "typology" to read Jesus in all texts. How is this
different from Barth---analogy/caricature? I think it was true that the
eldest son got all the property to carry on the family name and wealth. How
is it that the younger son get his, "inheritance" since his is do none?
Would it be sheer grace to let the son have anything to go off and fail
with. Is this a sign of the gift of free will granted by God as a gift and a
risk that it will be squandered? If so then the son's return, is that an
over turning of original sin that Christ offers the saved along with
continual forgiveness for volitional sin? Could there be a Trinitarian drama
unfolding here where the oldest son represents the law giving Father, the
Father represents the giver of unmerited grace and the repentant son equals
love re-attaching to Father and Son. That sounds pretty far out so it
probably is.----------I'm usually way more confused than Herb and this is
probably a good example-------------Pray for ranchers in cold wet calving
conditions, we had more than one calf in our bath tub getting the chill out
of them, they are just stiff as board when you put em in then in an hour or
so they are bellaring for their mothers standing up in your bath
tub-------Jeanie really liked this part!!! What a ranch wife she was for a
city girl!!!

[fcba%40comcast.net]

Dear Confessors,

 

As for a liturgical response oddly enough I do have one. This is the Sunday where I use a benediction that I made up that is based on the Patristic view that the father, the shepherd and the woman refer to the Father, the Good Shepherd and the Holy Spirit.

 

"May the blessing of

the Father seeking the lost child (son),

the Shepherd seeking the lost sheep and

the Woman seeking the lost coin

be with you both now and forever. Amen."

 

Chris Anderson

God Is Still Laughing
http://home.comcast.net/~fcba

[herb.davis]

Dear Jim, Wonderful reminder of how Barth saw this parable. Loved it.

[link...@aol.com]

Dear Roger,

Blessings on you as you tend the unfatted calves! Are they to become
"grain-fed" beef, fit for coming home barbeques?

I forgot to put Barth's CD IV 2 in my bag for the office, but Barth
does also use the NT word "type." "Type" means the parable is a
parable, a likeness that demonstrates a particular similarity to
something that it is like, for all its dissimilarity; the thing that
this parable is like is not a concept of "sheer grace," but the
concrete reality of the tax collectors, sinners no less, drawing near
to the Jesus to hear him, Jesus welcoming and banqueting with them,
and both the Pharisees and scribes grumbling concerning this event.

I was thinking about something on the way here that pertains to your
questions regarding inheritance. Notice that in response to the elder
saying to the son that he never gave him a kid to party with friends,
but gave, "this son of yours" "who devoured your living with
whores" (kid vs. calf and the living, friends vs. whores) the father
replies, "You are with me at all times (even now, at party time!) All
that is mine (even this one of whom you have said, "this son of
yours") is yours." Think of this! The interitance of the elder now
includes "this brother of yours"! In losing his younger brother, he
had lost his true and real inheritance, for his father had himself
lost the younger son. He has as his brother one who died and has come
to life! One who was lost and now is found! The elder inherits this
younger brother, and thus the enduring sign of the love of the Father,
a sign and seal which he seems so sorelyto have needed, and thus it
is indeed time to the party: "It was fitting to start making merry, to
start rejoicing" for the inheritance itself, "this your brother," has
been recovered.

Just some thoughts!

Jim the Link

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[Jean Easland]

Bro. Jim: More than just thoughts, the Spirit, stirring our minds and heats
into ACTION, concrete action! I think on of the places we miss the mark on
is affirming our congregations. I just finished Anthony M. Coniarsis:
"Theosis" Achieving Your potential In Christ". I guess I am going at this
last post hoping to bring blessing and healing where there has been division
and dis-ease. But of course that is always primary in our call.There is
something so affirming in EO that gives people much more room to breath but
alas this might just be "greener on the other side of the fence thinking".
One of the issues of this parable certainly is INHERITANCE and what a
fabulous promise that is---I think we may apply the adage, "if it looks too
good to be true it probably is" and our cultural cynicism to these texts
inhibits us from seeing the "concreteness" in them. I know it is our job to
blow the dust off the Word for people but WE must first come under the
conviction/passion of Jesus to attempt the task. There is powerful emotion
in this text that is concrete in all lives, jealousy, long-suffering pain,
vainglory, pride, elitism/exclusivity, anger, bondage, and of course the
block buster LOVE---crushing love. Sibling rivalry, what a powerful force
along with possessiveness, and controle.

Just some more thoughts: Prime rib------the BEST, party on Jim-------Roger

[link...@aol.com]

Dear Roger,

You are right; we do miss the mark in affirming our congregations. The
church is not Jesus Christ, it bears witness to Jesus Christ her head
and groom; it does this, and this is what he calls it to do. I don't
know much about the EO doctrines concerning Theosis. For Barth it was
enough now that we be like Jesus Christ, brother to our brother, in
the power of the Holy Spirit in thanksgiving for Jesus Christ who
Himself is God become Man and Man become God. Jesus Christ is the
repentant sinner vindicated by the Father, and in his light we poor
sinners repent of our dishonoring of our Father: "This brother of
yours!" Our inheritance is this call to be "prime rib" church, to
celebrate even now, our riches in the mindst of the poverty of our
flesh. At the Lord's Table, a flesh and blood act, in the troublesome
here and now, but also the glorious here in now in which ranchers are
thawing out calves in bath water, we often say, "And thus we bear
witness now in hope for the coming of Jesus Christ, to make all things
new!" And we may be assured of this gathering under his invitations:
"This is my body...this is my blood!"

Jim the Link

[Jean Easland]

My Brother, Jim: Beautiful Proclamation !!! LIKNESS is the key to the
doctrine. Here is a short summary of EO on the doctrine which is based on
2nd Peter !:1-4 "partakers of the divine nature" from the new EO Study
Bible: When the Son of God assumed our humanity in the womb of the blessed
virgin Mary the process of our being renewed in God's image and likeness was
begun. Thus, those who are joined to Christ, through faith, in Holy Baptism
begin a process of re-creation, being renewed in God's image and likeness.
Because of the incarnation of the Son of God, because the fullness of
God has inhabited human flesh, being joined to Christ means that is again
possible to "experience deification, or the fulfillment of our human
destiny: That is through union with Christ, we become by grace what God is
by nature---"we become children of God, crying out Abba Father. His deity
interpenetrates our humanity.(Always remember a clear distinction is made
between energy and essence, we NEVER partake in God's essence, less we
recommit original sin and personal idolatry, only his energies(nature)
This is my summary of their one page explanation in 2nd Peter. I think
we are afraid to tell our congregations this truth thinking they will run
off and think they are God. But in being so reticent and guarded in our
anthropology WE FAIL TO LET PEOPLE BE WHO THEY ALL READY ARE !!! Made in the
image of the Triune God and in a process of sanctification to become the
likeness of Jesus Christ----an ICON.

Just some stuff from the prairie; the ice is off Big Muddy, the eagles
have followed the geese north-----but the FISH ARE STARTING TO
BITE-----------COME ON LET'S GO FISHING! Hot soup to follow!!! Love in the
Lord Jesus Christ Jim and all-----------Roger----

[Willis E. Elliott]

Roger and Jim

 

ACTION: We are what we do. - the Jewish truth in Christianity (salvation as action)

BEING: We do what we are. - the Greek truth in Christianity (salvation as divinization [theosis])

 

Gabe borrowed (& returned) my copy of Bonhoeffer's ACT AND BEING (1930).

DB here criticizes Barth's actualism (revelation as the ACTION of the [Calvinist] sovereign God) as providing contingency but not continuity.  DB's Lutheran take is that revelation is the PERSON of Jesus Christ, the Word contingent but also in historical continuity.  The language is more philosophical than theological (which is true also of MLKingJr's PhD dissertation in philosophical theology), more Greek than Jewish: revelation is the incarnate personal Being of God Acting in history.  Both Karl Barth & (20 years younger) DB were answering philosophical agnosticism about transcendence.  /  DB's book is especially pertinent to today's epistemological debates on the relationship of consciousness to conscience.

 

A note on cultural history:

Jew + Greek = Christian

God chose this mix of cultures/languages (Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek) for the gospel, the Good News of "the revelation of Jesus Christ."

 

A note on the TRINITY:

The Jewish ACTION in the NT required an un-Jewish (Greek) conceptualization of God's BEING (*ousia*),

a conceptualization not fundamentally developed until by Athanasius (b.ca.293, & in full action at the 325 Council of Nicea).  The philosophical essence of the Trinity is (said he) that the *ousia* (being) of Father/Son/HolySpirit is *homo* (the same; thus *homoousios* [not similar, "homoiousios*]).  The being of the Christian God (i.e., the Trinity) is different from the beings of Yahweh & Allah.  (To Athanasius we owe also the NT "canon" of 27 books.)

 

A note on teaching the Trinity:

First, teach the ACTION, a drama richly detailed in the NT through its dramatic personae, viz. Father / Son / Holy Spirit.

Then, teach the cultural-linguistic successful struggle to understand that action in terms of God's BEING.

 

Three questions on the doctrine of the Trinity: can it be understood more simply than as described above?  Intellectually, no.  Can God the Holy Trinity be believed-trusted without intellectual understanding?  Of course!  Could Christianity survive without the intellectual understanding of the Trinity?  Of course not.

 

Grace and peace--

Willis

[Jean Easland]

Fr. Willlis: What I fumble around to say half by instinct half by accident you hammer down by scholarship! The "oosia" issue was barely touched on in Sem. just a few minuets in one lecture in Christian History class BUT what a hugely important element in any pastors theological black bag(as the ones the old MD"s carried when they made house calls). You really are one of our theological Doctors !!! I just love you for it, especially the fierce way you defend the truth of the Word.

      My Mom, 92, had a mild heart attack last night, she is doing fine but please pray for her. Love to you, Willis----------Roger--P.S yesterday I witnessed 9 eagles do an upward spiral air dance just below lake Oahe-------just an amazing celebration of their being in God's good creation !!! I wish each and every CC reader could have seen that!~ Just as a symphony crescendo, they simultaneously broke off and headed off in separate directions----------how is it that I get to witness such things with tears of joy? DO NOT STOP YOUR MINISTRY FOR FIERCE HONESTY TO US !!!

[Jean Easland]

Willis: Just an amazing week end in Sioux Falls with my 92 year old Mom who had a heart attack this last Thursday. They flew here to the Heart Hospital on Friday, put in two stints and she is back in Pierre in her apt. on Sunday!!! Praise God for amazing medical procedures and great Doctors. Thanks for your prayers, blessings Roger