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History of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
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Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay
Oct 6, 2012, 5:56:30 AM10/6/12
to
Dear friends,
I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
and understand their demerits?
I know there are many links on the web, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Timeline_of_programming_languages , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Analytical_engine and others, but how to watch things happening in an
actual machine, learn how to program it and then understanding the
earlier paradigm by programming it myself.
Just like I have learnt the basics of physics and mathematics by first
principles, I wish to follow the same route by delving into history and
operations of these computational machines.
I am being naive, but will someone help me on this? Since you guys are
deeply into coding you would be the best ones to guide me on this.
Regards
I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
and understand their demerits?
I know there are many links on the web, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Timeline_of_programming_languages , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Analytical_engine and others, but how to watch things happening in an
actual machine, learn how to program it and then understanding the
earlier paradigm by programming it myself.
Just like I have learnt the basics of physics and mathematics by first
principles, I wish to follow the same route by delving into history and
operations of these computational machines.
I am being naive, but will someone help me on this? Since you guys are
deeply into coding you would be the best ones to guide me on this.
Regards
Mirko K.
Oct 6, 2012, 5:36:06 PM10/6/12
to
comp.programming would probably be more appropriate.
Anyway, there are a large number of simulators for historical
machines, as well as implementations for ancient programming
languages (I'm sure I've seen for example PL1 and APL
implementations for modern Linux systems).
Have a look at the SIMH project (I sometimes enjoy playing around
with the PDP11 and UNIX v7 environment).
http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
Dan Espen
Oct 6, 2012, 8:01:52 PM10/6/12
to
Computers and programming started to really take off with the
introduction of the IBM 1401. There is at least one simulator
available.
You can find the manuals at bitsavers.
You must have a lot of time on your hands.
Good luck.
--
Dan Espen
Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay
Oct 7, 2012, 2:56:21 AM10/7/12
to
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:01:52 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> You must have a lot of time on your hands.
Knowledge for the sake of knowledge... Civilisation grows that way. Its
> You must have a lot of time on your hands.
said the west gradually entered dark age because the library of
Alexandria was destroyed. Thousands of scribes would read and copy
numerous books(scrolls) and this was their life.
> You can find the manuals at bitsavers.
Will try there...thanks
> Not sure why you think this is on topic for comp.unix.shell
> "deeply into coding",
Had to begin by asking someone knowledgeable...
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 23:36:06 +0200, Mirko K. wrote:
> comp.programming would probably be more appropriate
> Have a look at the SIMH project (I sometimes enjoy
> playing around with the PDP11 and UNIX v7 environment).
I will try these...thanks
> playing around with the PDP11 and UNIX v7 environment).
Once again, thanks for direction...
Dan Espen
Oct 7, 2012, 9:53:59 AM10/7/12
to
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:01:52 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>> You must have a lot of time on your hands.
>
> Knowledge for the sake of knowledge... Civilisation grows that way. Its
> said the west gradually entered dark age because the library of
> Alexandria was destroyed. Thousands of scribes would read and copy
> numerous books(scrolls) and this was their life.
Well, the IBM 1401 was a fascinating machine, programmed mostly in it's
>> You must have a lot of time on your hands.
>
> Knowledge for the sake of knowledge... Civilisation grows that way. Its
> said the west gradually entered dark age because the library of
> Alexandria was destroyed. Thousands of scribes would read and copy
> numerous books(scrolls) and this was their life.
machine language (Autocoder is it's assembly language). Knowing how it
made it's registers available for stealth use, and how it used a bit in
each character position to delimit fields and instructions is
interesting.
But if I wanted to expand my knowledge of computing, (which I often do),
I'd be looking at another modern language or widget toolkit.
--
Dan Espen
Kaz Kylheku
Oct 7, 2012, 9:18:46 PM10/7/12
to
That line always strikes me as ironic whenever it appears on Usenet.
Dan Espen
Oct 7, 2012, 9:53:39 PM10/7/12
to
--
Dan Espen
Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay
Oct 8, 2012, 12:34:48 AM10/8/12
to
>>> You must have a lot of time on your hands.
>>
>> That line always strikes me as ironic whenever it appears on Usenet.
>
> Well, looking at it that way...
It's okay. Having a lot of time, or friends pointing that out to me, is
no issue. It depends on one's perspective. If one can sufficiently reduce
one's zone of influence, or carefully selects one's priorities in life,
one can indeed have a lot of time. It is also alternatively called
optimal time management (I like those MBA guys, packing old wine in new
bottles, inventing a new word every other day. I would define my
philosophy as priority-management!)
I do not run after many material things, they are fleeting and do not
give me lasting happiness. I love knowing, it helps. Even with the entire
world up against you, you could still have self-belief (conviction),
especially, in third-world countries like ours.
Now, let us come on the topic. I have read wikipedia. I have sent an
email to aek at bitsavers dot org, and I am expecting a reply. I thought
there could have been a detailed overview of the work bitservers dot org
was doing.
What about Babbage's analytical engine? Had it any logic operations and
algorithms built into it? I have heard that there is a virtual analytical
engine available somewhere. Also engineers have successfully created
Babbage's incomplete engine.
Men, I envy you! Born in countries where you take many things like
liberty, good education and libraries for granted, you are already way
ahead of us. We keep swimming against the tide. :(
Thank you for your patience and camaraderie.
Regards
Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay
Oct 8, 2012, 12:44:36 AM10/8/12
to
On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:53:59 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> machine language (Autocoder is it's assembly language). Knowing how it
> made it's registers available for stealth use, and how it used a bit in
> each character position to delimit fields and instructions is
> interesting.
What I know is that nowadays, all programming languages are syntactic,
> machine language (Autocoder is it's assembly language). Knowing how it
> made it's registers available for stealth use, and how it used a bit in
> each character position to delimit fields and instructions is
> interesting.
having a compiler to converter the human-readable form to machine-
readable form. But it would indeed be fascinating to see how we code in
machine language.
Only if I could observe a CPU run instructions after instructions, one at
a time!
Could you guide me here, please? At least, some initiation?
Dan Espen
Oct 8, 2012, 8:04:37 AM10/8/12
to
This is way off topic here.
Any 1401 programmer would be well versed in the machine language,
but the machine was normally programmed in Autocoder.
Machine language was for writing patches which were punched up and
inserted in the object deck.
Recompiles took too long for small changes.
--
Dan Espen
Robert Bonomi
Oct 8, 2012, 2:48:54 PM10/8/12
to
In article <k4ov8d$oub$1...@dont-email.me>,
have.
This means that for USENET discussion groups, such as this one, you need
to find and read the 'charter' -- to find out what is, and is *NOT*, an
appropriate subject for discussion in that group. And then post things
that are ON TOPIC for that group.
As for your off-topic question,
get thee to a library, and get some books on the 'history of computing',
and the 'development of programming languages'.
When you have discovered what some of the early hardware was, you can
then search for 'simulators', and/or 'emulators' of that hardware.
THEN you need to learn the assembler language for that machine, so that
you can write some trivial programs in that language, and watch them run
in the simulator/emulator.
Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay <bkpsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dear friends,
>I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
>history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
>and understand their demerits?
>
First, my friend, you must learn how to use the computer you already
>Dear friends,
>I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
>history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
>and understand their demerits?
>
have.
This means that for USENET discussion groups, such as this one, you need
to find and read the 'charter' -- to find out what is, and is *NOT*, an
appropriate subject for discussion in that group. And then post things
that are ON TOPIC for that group.
As for your off-topic question,
get thee to a library, and get some books on the 'history of computing',
and the 'development of programming languages'.
When you have discovered what some of the early hardware was, you can
then search for 'simulators', and/or 'emulators' of that hardware.
THEN you need to learn the assembler language for that machine, so that
you can write some trivial programs in that language, and watch them run
in the simulator/emulator.
Janis Papanagnou
Oct 8, 2012, 3:40:50 PM10/8/12
to
On 08.10.2012 20:48, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <k4ov8d$oub$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay <bkpsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear friends,
>> I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
>> history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
>> and understand their demerits?
>>
>
[...]
> In article <k4ov8d$oub$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay <bkpsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear friends,
>> I have been toying with an idea for a long time. How can I delve into the
>> history of Programming language and CPU - how to watch with my own eyes
>> and understand their demerits?
>>
>
>
>
> As for your off-topic question,
> get thee to a library, and get some books on the 'history of computing',
> and the 'development of programming languages'.
This suggestion provokes the next question:
>
> As for your off-topic question,
> get thee to a library, and get some books on the 'history of computing',
> and the 'development of programming languages'.
"How can library books be mounted on the file system to read them?"
Of course scriptable! - you don't want to search and include books
manually, do you? :-)
Janis
PS: Seriously, I find the OP's approach interesting in many respects.
One aspect is the observable predominant orientation on WinDOS based
technology nowadays; folks seem to prefer to think in broken by
design technology (BBDT) terms. (Substitute WinDOS by any other BBDT
of your choice.)
> [...]
Rajib Kumar Bandopadhyay
Oct 9, 2012, 11:14:11 AM10/9/12
to
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:04:37 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> Try alt.folklore.computers...
Thank you, Dan... for the nudge I was so eagerly expecting.
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:40:50 +0200, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> ...One aspect is the observable predominant orientation on WinDOS based
And my thanks to Janis, too, for your kind words. Indeed, I am sceptical
of BBDT (I am only aware upto the acronym DBD, Defective By Design) and
closed source proprietary systems. I believe all inventions, especially
in computing, have happened by standing on the shoulders of tall men (if
not giants), not independently. No invention is an island in itself, just
popping up its head from the ocean floor. It would serve mankind better
if only the part that you have invented be encrypted, and the rest,
remain open source, if you are so sensitive to your codes being seen by
someone else.
Windoze is so susceptible to viruses and bugs!
Anyway, I won't digress off-topic, or there would be another sermon-
session from control-freaks.
Shall we then stop this thread?
Regards
> Try alt.folklore.computers...
Thank you, Dan... for the nudge I was so eagerly expecting.
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:40:50 +0200, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> ...One aspect is the observable predominant orientation on WinDOS based
> technology nowadays; folks seem to prefer to think in broken by design
> technology (BBDT) terms...
And my thanks to Janis, too, for your kind words. Indeed, I am sceptical
of BBDT (I am only aware upto the acronym DBD, Defective By Design) and
closed source proprietary systems. I believe all inventions, especially
in computing, have happened by standing on the shoulders of tall men (if
not giants), not independently. No invention is an island in itself, just
popping up its head from the ocean floor. It would serve mankind better
if only the part that you have invented be encrypted, and the rest,
remain open source, if you are so sensitive to your codes being seen by
someone else.
Windoze is so susceptible to viruses and bugs!
Anyway, I won't digress off-topic, or there would be another sermon-
session from control-freaks.
Shall we then stop this thread?
Regards
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