WABI....
james peterson
have be prevented from this by the fact that we use a number of
PC applications that are not ported to UNIX (esp. MicroSoft).
Finally we hear about a possible solution coming soon to a workstation
near you: WABI. WABI is alleged to run MS Windows applications under
Solaris on SPARC stations (at very good speeds, unlike SoftPC).
Does anyone have any information about if and how well this works?
james sends
--
james lee peterson pete...@CS.ColoState.edu
dept. of computer science
colorado state university "Some ignorance is invincible."
ft. collins, colorado (voice:303/491-7137; fax:303/491-6639)
Antony Mossop
>We have been trying to get the pc's out of our office for years, but
>have be prevented from this by the fact that we use a number of
>PC applications that are not ported to UNIX (esp. MicroSoft).
>
>Finally we hear about a possible solution coming soon to a workstation
>near you: WABI. WABI is alleged to run MS Windows applications under
>Solaris on SPARC stations (at very good speeds, unlike SoftPC).
>
>Does anyone have any information about if and how well this works?
>
Sounds interesting, information would be gratefully received here also
as it looks like we're about to take the plunge into into purchasing SunPC,
so if there's something better we'd like to hear it. Can't say I've heard
many good things about Solaris though (though 2.1 seems less problematic),
still we'll have to change over some day so maybe this'll force the issue.
On a similar note I've been reading this with a view of installing either
Linux or BSD on a PC, I'd also be interested in continuing to use some
of the cheap DOS and windows based software and be able to start them up
without rebooting to DOS. So which of the two is more likely to be able
to support this in the future, Linux or BSD (i.e. dos under cut down
unix look alikes) and on a similar note which of these two shows the
most potential for future growth?
Tony Mossop, geophysics, Stanford
Steve Hanson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Florida SunFlash
Sun Introduces Wabi - Allows MS-Windows Apps To Run Under UNIX
SunFLASH Vol 53 #x May 1993
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This issue of SunFlash has three Sun press releases about SunSelect's
Wabi technology. (Note - Wabi is not an acronym.). -johnj
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SunSoft To Copackage Wabi With Solaris
Sun Introduces Wabi - Allows MS-Windows Apps To Run Under UNIX
SunSelect Proposes Public Interface For MS-Windows Apps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Subject: SunSoft To Copackage Wabi With Solaris
Contact: Laura Ramsey, +1 415/336-0739
Contact: Emily Cohen, Hi-Tech Communications at +1 (415) 904-7000
SunSoft: +1 510-460-3267
Windows Applications To Run On Solaris
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., May 5, 1993 -- SunSoft, Inc. today announced
that it will copackage SunSelect's Wabi technology with the Solaris
software environment, enabling users to run Windows applications with
no performance compromise. The Wabi technology was recently
demonstrated running Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Word and Microsoft
PowerPoint for Windows on Solaris at SunSoft's Annual Solaris Developer
Conference.
"Wabi coupled with Solaris gives users the best of both worlds -- the
power of UNIX with the range of Microsoft applications," said Edward
J. Zander, president of SunSoft. "Now users can run their spreadsheet
on Wabi and their business on Solaris."
Solaris users will initially be able to run key Windows applications
that account for about two-thirds of the applications sold in the PC
market. These include Lotus 1-2-3 for Windows, Lotus AmiPro, Microsoft
Word for Windows, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft PowerPoint, Microsoft
Project for Windows, WordPerfect for Windows, Harvard Grahics for
Windows from Software Publishing Corp., Aldus Pagemaker, PROCOMM PLUS
for Windows from Datastorm Technologies, Inc., CorelDraw, and Paradox
for Windows from Borland International, and the complete set of
Microsoft Windows 3.1 accessories. Wabi will be certified to run
additional applications later in the year.
SunSoft will begin a promotional offer for Wabi this month. Customers
of Solaris for x86 and Solaris 2.2 for SPARC will receive a coupon with
their product redeemable for the Wabi technology at no extra cost. The
offer will extend through December. In addition, the Wabi technology
will also be copackaged with SunSoft's INTERACTIVE UNIX product line by
the end of the year. INTERACTIVE UNIX is SunSoft's product targeted at
the low end multiuser x86 marketplace.
SunSoft's Solaris environment is designed to combine the features of
high performance computing -- such as multiprocessing, multithreading,
installation, administration and network security -- with the
ease-of-use of personal computers, making it the rightsizing solution
of choice for global enterprises. It is available on the highest volume
RISC and CISC architectures, SPARC and x86, and will soon be delivered
on the new PowerPC platform. More than 7,500 32-bit applications -- the
largest base in the world -- run on Solaris today.
Product inquiries should be directed to SunSoft at 510-460-3267 in the
United States and to local SunSoft offices in Europe and Asia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Subject: Sun Introduces Wabi - Allows MS-Windows Apps To Run Under UNIX
Contact: Beth Byer, SunSelect +1 (508) 442-0271
Contact: Kathryn Lang Hi-Tech at +1 (415) 904-7000
Contact: Larry Lytle, USL at +1 (908) 552-5186
SUNSELECT INTRODUCES WABI SOFTWARE, BRINGING MICROSOFT(R) WINDOWS
APPLICATIONS INTO THE UNIX(R) SYSTEM ENVIRONMENT
USL, SCO and SunSoft to implement technology;
USL forms co-development partnership with SunSelect
CHELMSFORD, May 5, SunSelect, the PC integration business of Sun
Microsystems, Inc., today introduced the first technology that allows
Microsoft. Windows applications to run directly on UNIX.-based PCs and
workstations at full performance without the need for MS-DOS. or
Microsoft Windows itself. Named Wabi, the software gives UNIX system
users the ability to run the most popular Microsoft Windows
applications on the most powerful open network computing environment.
"The Wabi technology represents a giant step in making UNIX broadly
acceptable to the commercial marketplace," said Dave Power, general
manager of SunSelect. "For the first time, users can run their favorite
Microsoft Windows applications at full speed while still accessing the
rich resources of the UNIX environment."
SunSelect will license Wabi to leading UNIX operating system vendors.
Companies planning to implement Wabi as a part of their respective UNIX
system offerings include UNIX System Laboratories (USL), The Santa Cruz
Operation (SCO) and SunSoft.
SunSelect has formed a co-development agreement with USL to build key
components of the Wabi technology. "We are making a major engineering
commitment to this project, and view Wabi as a key element of our UNIX
strategy," said Don McGovern, vice president of USL. "The technology
dramatically advances open systems by enabling customers to take
advantage of both their Microsoft Windows and UNIX system applications,
without depending on a single vendor."
In addition, several other vendors, including Toshiba, Fujitsu Limited,
NCD, Tadpole Technology, and Quarterdeck Office Systems, have endorsed
Wabi as a way to broaden the choice of software available to their
customers.
Wabi is based on technology acquired by SunSelect from Praxsys
Technologies, Inc. (Norwood, Mass.) in September 1992. SunSelect has
also entered into an agreement with Bitstream Inc. (Cambridge, Mass.),
under which SunSelect will license Bitstream's font handling technology
to make a large selection of TrueType fonts available to Wabi vendors.
As a result, Wabi users will have the same access as Microsoft Windows
users to Bitstream's library of more than 600 scalable TrueType fonts.
>From Microsoft Windows to X Windows
The Wabi software will enable UNIX system users to run Microsoft
Windows applications right out of the box. Additionally, those
applications become part of the UNIX as easily accessible as any UNIX
allowing users to cut and paste text between Microsoft Windows and UNIX
applications. For example, information queried from a UNIX-based
database management system or received via an email message can be
incorporated within a presentation document created with Microsoft
PowerPoint. or CorelDRAW!.. The user simply utilizes the cut-and-paste
facility built into X Windows, the open systems standard for displaying
graphical elements on networked computers and terminals.
While other products permit Microsoft Windows applications to run under
the UNIX system, they do so by running MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows in
an emulation environment, a feat that requires considerable system
resources, reducing application performance. By contrast, Wabi
translates the function calls made by a Microsoft Windows application
into those recognizable by X Windows. This approach consumes much less
processing power, permitting Microsoft Windows applications to run with
no compromise in performance.
Support for leading Microsoft Windows applications
Major application vendors, including Lotus Development Corporation,
Borland International, WordPerfect Corporation, and Corel Corporation,
have recognized the Wabi product as an innovative way to make their
Microsoft Windows applications available to new users.
"Wabi is a strong bridge between UNIX and Microsoft Windows, and
broadens customer's options, allowing end-users to run desktop
applications like 1-2-3. for Windows and Lotus Freelance Graphics on a
wider range of platforms," said Jim Manzi, president and chief
executive officer of Lotus Development Corporation.
The most popular Microsoft Windows applications on the market are being
certified to run on Wabi. These programs, which together represent
about two-thirds of all Microsoft Windows applications sold, include
Lotus 1-2-3 for Windows, Lotus AmiPro, Microsoft Word for Windows,
Microsoft Excel., Microsoft PowerPoint, Microsoft Project for Windows,
WordPerfect. for Windows, Harvard Graphics for Windows from Software
Publishing Corporation, Aldus PageMaker., PROCOMM PLUS for Windows from
Datastorm Technologies, Inc., CorelDRAW!., Paradox. for Windows and
Quattro Pro for Windows from Borland. International, Inc., as well as
the complete set of Microsoft Windows 3.1 accessories.
Ongoing certification program
SunSelect, USL and other partners will continue to test and certify
other Microsoft Windows packages for the Wabi environment. To increase
the library of applications compatible with the Wabi software,
SunSelect is establishing a self- certification program for
developers. Through the program, available in June, developers can
receive a free preview copy of Wabi, enabling them to conduct
compatibility testing during the course of application development.
SunSelect and its partners will also work with developers to make Wabi
as broadly compatible as possible.
Availability and pricing
SunSelect will make release 1.0 of Wabi available to its licensing
partners this summer. Each vendor will announce its own plans for
packaging, pricing, and availability.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Subject: SunSelect Proposes Public Interface For MS-Windows Apps
Contact: Beth Byer, SunSelect +1 (508) 442-0271
Contact: Kathryn Lang, Hi-Tech +1 (415) 904-7000
SUNSELECT PROPOSES PUBLIC INTERFACE FOR MICROSOFT(R) WINDOWS APPLICATIONS
Users, Manufacturers, Software Vendors Join in
Supporting Public Windows Interface
CHELMSFORD -- May 5, 1993 -- In keeping with the philosophy of open
systems technology, SunSelect, a Sun Microsystems, Inc. business, today
proposed creating a specification called the Public Windows Interface
(PWI) to bring the Microsoft Windows application programming interface
(API) into the public domain. The idea of a PWI specification as the
foundation for industry innovation is broadly supported by computer
system vendors, independent software vendors (ISVs) and end users,
including American Airlines, Borland International, Corel Corporation,
Hewlett-Packard Company, ICL, Network Computing Devices Inc., Norwegian
Telecom, Quarterdeck Office Systems, Sun Microsystems Computer
Corporation, SunSoft, Tadpole Technology, The Foxboro Company, The
Santa Cruz Operation, Inc., UNIX System Laboratories, Inc., and
WordPerfect Corporation.
The goal of creating PWI is to define a standard API for Microsoft
Windows. With a defined standard, applications and tools can be
developed that will enable the users of systems based on multiple
operating systems to directly run the almost 5,000 existing Microsoft
Windows applications today. The PWI concept will be submitted to open
systems organizations with the goal of creating PWI as an industry
standard. Further, SunSelect has examined the recent industry movement
to the common open software environment processes, and believes that
PWI is well aligned with these processes. SunSelect welcomes
participation of others in accelerating the initial PWI specification
into an industry standard.
"Microsoft Windows is the most popular application programming
interface on desktops today. Changes to the API, which affect thousands
of ISVs and millions of users, should be made through an open process,"
said Scott McNealy, chief executive officer of Sun Microsystems, Inc.
"By establishing PWI as a standard, developers will have an open forum
to debate the programming interfaces they would like to see included in
the future."
SunSelect proposed that the initial specification for PWI be based on
the Microsoft Windows application interfaces published by Microsoft and
additional components of the Microsoft Windows API used in popular
software products. The specification could be enhanced over time as
ISVs, systems vendors and end users evolve the PWI specification in a
public forum.
Benefits for ISVs and End Users
"The shackles are broken," said Roel Pieper, president and CEO of UNIX
System Laboratories. "And that's great news for customers. Bringing
Microsoft Windows into the open systems arena will foster innovation,
and result in many new products. Most important, PWI will be a public
standard enabling customers to achieve their enterprise client-server
objectives by combining Microsoft Windows with UNIX for a compatible
and stable application environment."
For ISVs and end users writing high-powered business applications, the
native UNIX environment will continue to provide the richest set of
tools and features. PWI would enrich UNIX and other operating systems
by providing an API for personal productivity applications. Together
PWI and a robust operating system provide the complete solution for
today's competitive business environment.
"Borland believes that all computer languages should be available for
implementation by any party, as evident by our participation in
creating a dBASE( language standard," said Philippe Kahn, chairman and
CEO, Borland International. "The PWI initiative headed by SunSelect is
a necessary step in broadening the standards effort from languages to
user interfaces, and Borland both applauds and supports this effort."
For developers and end users alike, the widespread availability of
PWI-compliant applications will leverage their existing investments in
software and training. End users also benefit from a PWI because it
protects their investment by giving them an active voice in the
products they want to buy. Similarly, OEMs are endorsing the PWI
proposal because it provides a stable platform for customers, allowing
new markets to be opened.
"The adoption of PWI as a public standard will bring the benefits of
open technologyQinnovation, competition, choice to the world of desktop
productivity applications," said Helge Vinje, Section Chief of
Norwegian Telecom.
SunSelect, in a separate, but related announcement, today announced its
Wabi product, which is intended to be an implementation of a PWI
standard.
(c)1993 Sun Microsystems, Inc.
SPARC is a registered trademark of SPARC International, Inc.
Solaris, Sun Microsystems, Sun, SunSelect, SunSoft, the Sun logo, the
SunSelect logo, Wabi are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun
Microsystems, Inc.
Aldus is a trademark and PageMaker is a registered trademark of Aldus
Corp. All other products or service names mentioned herein are
trademarks of their respective owners. Borland and Paradox are
registered trademarks, and Quatro Pro is a trademark of Borland
International, Inc. CorelDRAW! is a trademark of Corel Corporation.
Harvard Graphics and Software Publishing Corporation are registered
trademarks of Software Publishing Corporation. Lotus and 1-2-3 are
registered trademarks and AmiPro is a trademark of Lotus Development
Corporation. Microsoft, MS-DOS, Excel and PowerPoint are registered
trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. PROCOMM PLUS is a trademark of
DATASTORM TECHNOLOGIES, INC. TrueType is a trademark of Apple
Computer, Inc. WordPerfect is a registered trademark of WordPerfect
Corporation.
UNIX is a registered trademark of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For information send mail to info-s...@Sun.COM.
Subscription requests should be sent to sunflash...@Sun.COM.
Archives are on solar.nova.edu, ftp.uu.net, sunsite.unc.edu,
src.doc.ic.ac.uk and ftp.adelaide.edu.au
All prices, availability, and other statements relating to Sun or third
party products are valid in the U.S. only. Please contact your local
Sales Representative for details of pricing and product availability in
your region. Descriptions of, or references to products or publications
within SunFlash does not imply an endorsement of that product or
publication by Sun Microsystems.
Send brief articles (e.g. third party announcements) and include contact
information (non-800#, fax #, email, etc) to:
John McLaughlin, SunFlash editor, fl...@Sun.COM. +1 305 351 4909
--
Steve Hanson - FERMILAB, Batavia, Il.
han...@pogo.fnal.gov or han...@fnal.fnal.gov
Stiv D. Ostenberg
From what I have seen WABI has very nice performance. If you need to run DOS
apps I think you are in trouble, and I have read about compatibility problems
using WABI.
Insignia will be developing a similar product using code licensed from
Microsoft. Hopefully this will have better compatibility.
I don't really have any other info to offer, but will post any ne
developments.
>james sends
--
Stiv Ostenberg st...@netcom.netcom.com| Sable, Saltairwise, a Claighmore
---------------------------------------+ inverted Argent, a Rowan Branch Or
Tech Support, Insignia Solutions | --<------ ------>--
Mike O'Connor
Ostenberg) writes:
: Insignia will be developing a similar product using code licensed from
:Microsoft. Hopefully this will have better compatibility.
What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
have any thoughts on that line?
...Mike
--
Michael J. O'Connor | Internet: m...@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
Ford Motor Company, OPEO | UUCP: ...!fmsrl7!opeo!mjo
20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001 | Phone: +1 (313) 248-1260
Dearborn, MI 48121 | Fax: +1 (313) 323-6277
Paul Prescod
>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
>have any thoughts on that line?
What would they sue for? AMD, Digital Research, and many other
companies have taken a standard, reverse-engineered it, and sold it.
Mike O'Connor
papr...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
:>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
:>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
:>have any thoughts on that line?
:
:What would they sue for? AMD, Digital Research, and many other
:companies have taken a standard, reverse-engineered it, and sold it.
Is it a standard?
Raymond Shwake
>In article <1tjmv1...@ope001.iao.ford.com> Mike O'Connor <m...@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com> writes:
>>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
>>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
>>have any thoughts on that line?
>What would they sue for? AMD, Digital Research, and many other
And AMD, DR and others have spent lots of time in court defending their
efforts. It would certainly be ironic if Microsoft, after spending a small
fortune (for them) defending their GUI technology against Apple and now
moving to bring Windows to the Mac seem now to be hinting of legal action
against Sun and its WABI partners. Yet another tack being followed is to
argue that these non-blessed implementations won't be able to keep up with
Microsoft's changes. Or in other words:
We'll set the standard, and we really want you to build on it, but
we may want to change things, or do things that only our friends
might know about. And just in case you think that writing to the
published standard without our blessing is good enough, we just
might want to stir things up by suing you. And don't bother
complaining to the FTC, because they haven't got the guts to take
us on. Open Standards? Hah! They're whatever we say they are.
>companies have taken a standard, reverse-engineered it, and sold it.
--
uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Casper H.S. Dik
> Yet another tack being followed is to
>argue that these non-blessed implementations won't be able to keep up with
>Microsoft's changes. Or in other words:
> We'll set the standard, and we really want you to build on it, but
> we may want to change things, or do things that only our friends
> might know about. And just in case you think that writing to the
> published standard without our blessing is good enough, we just
> might want to stir things up by suing you. And don't bother
> complaining to the FTC, because they haven't got the guts to take
> us on. Open Standards? Hah! They're whatever we say they are.
This is the part that reveals Microsoft's true intentions.
I do not believe that such a strategy can be very successful: think
backward compatibility.
If MS adds some feature to MS Windows, all programs using that feature
will not work on Wabi system AND older Windows systems.
Unless MS can convince all ISVs to use undocumented Windows calls and
use the undocumented calls from the most recent Windows versions,
and succeeds in keeping these same calls unknown from the Wabi
consortium, they have a chance of winning.
Some large software corporations have already said that they will
work to have their applications run on Wabi (Lotus, WordPerfect, Borland,
Corel). This is not surprising, as Wabi increases their market.
What would happen if only MS* products weren't Wabi-compliant?
You couldn't run Word for Windows, you'd have to buy WordPerfect.
No Excel, must use 1-2-3.
Smart move, Microsoft.
Casper
George Patapis
>In article <C7I22...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
>papr...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>
>:>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
>:>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
>:>have any thoughts on that line?
>:
>:What would they sue for? AMD, Digital Research, and many other
>:companies have taken a standard, reverse-engineered it, and sold it.
>
>Is it a standard?
>
I know that SUN is thinking of developing the Windows Application
Binary Interface. I ask what's the big deal?? There already exists
SoftPC which runs Win 3.1 programs on SPARCs. Also my votes go to
Desqview/X which allows you to incorporate a Windows PC onto your
network, run the Windows programs on it and display them on your
Unix box by just using the X-Windows protocol...now that's classy
and I beleive much faster than emulating every instruction to run on
a SPARC.
---
__/ __/ George Patapis -------------PAN METRON ARISTON---- __/ __/
__/ __/ Telecom C.S.S.C Lane Cove------------------------- __/ __/
__/ __/ P.O.Box A792 Sydney South --fax :(02) 911 3 199-- __/ __/
__/ __/ NSW, 2000, Australia.-------voice:(02) 911 3 121-- __/ __/
__/ __/ ------email:gpat...@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au-------- __/ __/
Edward T Spire
: In article 1tra40...@ope001.iao.ford.com, m...@iao.ford.com (Mike O'Connor) writes:
: >In article <C7I22...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
: >papr...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
: >
: >:>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
: >:>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
: >:>have any thoughts on that line?
: >:
: >:What would they sue for? AMD, Digital Research, and many other
: >:companies have taken a standard, reverse-engineered it, and sold it.
: >
: >Is it a standard?
: >
:
: I know that SUN is thinking of developing the Windows Application
: Binary Interface. I ask what's the big deal?? There already exists
: SoftPC which runs Win 3.1 programs on SPARCs. Also my votes go to
: Desqview/X which allows you to incorporate a Windows PC onto your
: network, run the Windows programs on it and display them on your
: Unix box by just using the X-Windows protocol...now that's classy
: and I beleive much faster than emulating every instruction to run on
: a SPARC.
I have a paradox database application running on desqview/x for access
by my unix users. Performance is terrible (presumably since it's
constantly needing to move things below the 1 meg line to access it
properly), even though I'm using a 50mhz 486. It gets worse as more
users log on, and I can't get more than four users on before I run
out of (16 meg worth of) memory.
Worse yet, stability is non-existent. I can't use their Open Look
windows manager (it causes Paradox to complain "not enough files in
config.sys, fer God's sake!!), and I can't run the sun mailtool under
their default window manager. I can't even run a remote window manager
from Open Look V3 (complains that Desqview X server is "broken"!!),
so I keep an Open Look V2 system around so I can run a remote window
manager from there. What a kludge. Can't terminate the remote
window manager either, gotta push the reset button.
Finally, it dies at least three times a day, often with no external
symptom, just hangs up. When I do get an external symptom, it's
QEMM complaining about a memory use violation! I have tried optimize,
detect, etc., to no avail. Also got nowhere with their technical
support. (Note that QEMM and Desqview/X are from the same vendor!!)
I also looked as OS/2 as a better way to provide a DOS application
to a Unix community. Finally got their TCP/IP stuff installed
(ordering it was extremely difficult, no wonder these guys are in
trouble), and found that it's good for turning OS/2 into a X terminal,
but useless for providing DOS applications to the network. You can
telnet into OS/2 (if you are a vt100 and you know the one and only
user/password that's been defined in OS/2's autoexec.bat!!)
but if you start a DOS application, the DOS application does it's
input and output to the OS/2 machine's screen/keyboard!!!!!
I am desparately seeking a better way to provide a shared, networked
DOS application to a Unix community. I will try WABI as soon as
possible, if not sooner. Other suggestions are certainly welcome.
========================================================================
===== "The heart must mediate between the brain and the hands" =====
Ed Spire e...@wrkgrp.com (on uunet)
The Workstation Group 708-696-0255 fax: 708-696-4800
--
========================================================================
===== "The heart must mediate between the brain and the hands" =====
Ed Spire e...@wrkgrp.com (on uunet)
Roger Marquis
Casper H.S. Dik (cas...@fwi.uva.nl) wrote:
> I do not believe that such a strategy can be very successful: think
> backward compatibility.
Ah yes, the old open systems hype I suppose.
> If MS adds some feature to MS Windows, all programs using that feature
> will not work on Wabi system AND older Windows systems.
Such is the advantage of proprietary systems vendors.
> Unless MS can convince all ISVs to use undocumented Windows calls and
> use the undocumented calls from the most recent Windows versions,
> and succeeds in keeping these same calls unknown from the Wabi
> consortium, they have a chance of winning.
I suppose the FTC is watching this very thing!
> What would happen if only MS* products weren't Wabi-compliant?
Same thing that has happened to IBM and other 'closed systems'
vendors, falling stock values and shrinking market shares.
> You couldn't run Word for Windows, you'd have to buy WordPerfect.
> No Excel, must use 1-2-3.
Looks like speculation to me (can you say F.U.D?)
> Smart move, Microsoft.
> Casper
Heavily vested in MS stock eh? Good luck ;-)
Roger Marquis
Mark D. Nagel
>In article <stivC7A...@netcom.com> st...@netcom.com (Stiv D.
>Ostenberg) writes:
>: Insignia will be developing a similar product using code licensed from
>:Microsoft. Hopefully this will have better compatibility.
>What I'm really wondering is whether or not Microsoft will sue Sun
>over WABI, and if so, how such legal action will impact WABI. Anyone
>have any thoughts on that line?
Wouldn't WABI boost sales of Microsoft products by opening up another
computing environment?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Domain: ma...@tc.fluke.COM (Mark Nagel) Voice: +1 206 356 6051
UUCP: microsoft!fluke!mark or sun!fluke!mark
Snail: John Fluke Mfg. Co. / P.O. Box C9090 / Everett WA 98206
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Torek
(Mark D. Nagel) writes:
>Wouldn't WABI boost sales of Microsoft products by opening up another
>computing environment?
The likely effect would be to boost sales of Windows applications, and
depress sales of Windows itself. As noted in the May 22--28 issue of
The Economist, Microsoft's main profit engine is O/S sales, not
applications sales. The conclusion: sales may rise, but profits will
most likely fall.
--
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Lawrence Berkeley Lab CSE/EE (+1 510 486 5427)
Berkeley, CA Domain: to...@ee.lbl.gov
Rajappa Iyer
>In article <1993Jun2.1...@tc.fluke.COM> ma...@tc.fluke.COM
>(Mark D. Nagel) writes:
>>Wouldn't WABI boost sales of Microsoft products by opening up another
>>computing environment?
>The likely effect would be to boost sales of Windows applications, and
>depress sales of Windows itself. As noted in the May 22--28 issue of
>The Economist, Microsoft's main profit engine is O/S sales, not
>applications sales.
I always thought it was the other way around --- MS was only
interested in owning the dominant OS insofar as it gave them an edge
in apps where the main money was. Did the Economist article have
numbers? Could you post them or email them please?
--
Rajappa Iyer (iy...@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM - on assignment at NCR)
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Don't take life too seriously... you might never get out of it alive.
Stiv D. Ostenberg
>>In article <stivC7A...@netcom.com> st...@netcom.com (Stiv D.
>>Ostenberg) writes:
>>: Insignia will be developing a similar product using code licensed from
>>:Microsoft. Hopefully this will have better compatibility.
>Wouldn't WABI boost sales of Microsoft products by opening up another
>computing environment?
>--
It would, but Microsoft would not be getting a share of the profits for the
direct sale.
As it is, it looks like SoftPC is your best bet for compatibility, though
WABI runs considerably faster. I don't know anything about the new
Insignia version other than that is is coming out sometime.
Gosh I hope they don't catch me saying that..........
Stiv
Raymond Shwake
> As it is, it looks like SoftPC is your best bet for compatibility, though
>WABI runs considerably faster. I don't know anything about the new
>Insignia version other than that is is coming out sometime.
Well, there's a definitive statement if I've heard one lately.
Insignia only inked their agreement with Microsoft a few weeks ago, and
has a *lot* of work to do to accomplish what Sun/USL have already demon-
strated. As to compatibility, why should SoftPC be a better bet than
WABI just because it's got Microsoft's blessing? Sure, MS could muck up
the works by changing the ABI without notice, but they'd affect those
running software written to Win 3.1 just as they would users of WABI.
IBM relinquished control over SQL long ago. AT&T relinquished
control over UNIX. Now it's Microsoft's turn to give up control of Windows.
--
uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Scott P. Reimert
>st...@netcom.com (Stiv D. Ostenberg) writes:
>
>
> IBM relinquished control over SQL long ago. AT&T relinquished
>control over UNIX. Now it's Microsoft's turn to give up control of Windows.
>--
1) It was my understanding that AT&T SOLD their interest in
UNIX to Novell, which used it to create Univel. I could
be wrong, but that's what I thought.
2) MS will *never* give up control of Windows.
>
>uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Scott
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Reimert \ rei...@etdesg.trw.com /Standard disclaimer:
Redondo Beach, CA \______________________________________/"Blah blah blah ... "
__________________|Always store beer in a cool dark place|_____________________
Stiv D. Ostenberg
The reason for increased compatibility is because unlike WABI SoftPC has no
problems with generic DOS apps. SoftPC emulates a PC and can handle just
about every PC app.
Sure Insignia only "inked our agreement with Microsoft" a few weeks ago,
but we have experience with Windows and Unix, as well as an alliance with
Bristol Technologies (who have a WABI like product already). It is my belief
that these ingredients will produce an pretty darn good product.
Please note that I am basing these opinions on the facts I have recieved
and I am posting them because I believe in the product, not because I am paid
to do this. All the reviews I have read on WABI state the compatibility
issue as a problem (or possible problem). In my position in Tech Support
at Insignia the only compatibility problem I usually run across is the 286/386
problem.
Thanks for responding by the way. Hope this message clears things up. If not
ask any other questions you may have and I will try to answer them.
>uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Dave Parker
> 1) It was my understanding that AT&T SOLD their interest in
> UNIX to Novell, which used it to create Univel. I could
> be wrong, but that's what I thought.
>
> 2) MS will *never* give up control of Windows.
On 1), USL (the separate company created by AT&T a few years ago to handle
UNIX) and Novell formed a joint marketing venture called Univel in 1991, I
believe. AT&T and Novell finalized their agreement for Novell to buy USL
from AT&T late last year, the FTC approved it recently, and I believe the
shareholders of USL must still okay it. Netters will correct me if I'm
wrong.
On 2), I would not expect them to do that, but my ability to foretell the
future has never been that good.
--
Dave Parker/ADMS - 303 N. Jeffreys - Pleasant Hill, MO 64080-1331
(816) 987-5167/5218 voice/fax - CompuServe: 72133,1053
uucp: ..!tarpit!gator!dlpinc00!dlparker - delphi: delphi.com!dlparker
Superuser
: >
: >uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
: Scott
As far as I understand it
AT&T created USL (told to!), they formed Univel with Novell. Then USL got
bought by Novell, so now Novell own USL and therefore Univel (or is there
someone else in the list ?)
Tim Clarke
Jim McCusker
Ahhh! But that's the rub that M$ can't afford, because if they relinquished
Windows they'd TRUELY have to compete with the industry on a level playing
field! I'd suspect that we'd find out that M$'s King Gates would become
the proverbial "king without cloths"!! ;-)
-- Jim
- Guess I just blew my chances of working for M$, eh??
>
>uunet!media!irscscm!nearside!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Rennie Allen
>Ahhh! But that's the rub that M$ can't afford, because if they relinquished
>Windows they'd TRUELY have to compete with the industry on a level playing
>field! I'd suspect that we'd find out that M$'s King Gates would become
>the proverbial "king without cloths"!! ;-)
>
Or Bill the Gates.... :-)
> - Guess I just blew my chances of working for M$, eh??
Ya; You, me, and Berk Breathed
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