Is FreeBSD a Novelty Operating System?
pasta
1. the windows system cannot be used for much of the new windows
software and a complicated unreliable method must be used to 'upgrade'
the system.
2. From reading this group, it only works with a limited number of printers.
3. No one actually makes software for FreeBSD. All software is 'ported'
from other operating systems.
4. The only real users of FreeBSD are the (gifted) geeks who contribute
to the code which is FreeBSD. This system would seem to be the ultimate
automated system to massage the egos of geeky coders.
Why would any HOME user want to use it as an alternative desktop?
kkt
> I understand that it has many problems:
> 1. the windows system cannot be used for much of the new windows
> software and a complicated unreliable method must be used to 'upgrade'
> the system.
> 2. From reading this group, it only works with a limited number of printers.
> 3. No one actually makes software for FreeBSD. All software is 'ported'
> from other operating systems.
> 4. The only real users of FreeBSD are the (gifted) geeks who contribute
> to the code which is FreeBSD. This system would seem to be the ultimate
> automated system to massage the egos of geeky coders.
Some people get their kicks contributing software. Others get their
kicks trolling usenet...
-- Patrick
Bob Eager
I think you have the wrong newsgroup.
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.advocacy is that way =====>
And alt.trolls is <====== that way.
--
Bob Eager
UNIX since v6..
http://tinyurl.com/2xqr6h
Robert Melson
pasta <pa...@home.net> writes:
<snip>
I'll feed the troll this one time.
As a HOME user, I use FreeBSD because it it (1) reliable, (2)
stable, and (3) secure, characteristics sadly lacking in either
Gates Universal Computer Virus and the majority of the Linux
distros I've used. I also use it because, unlike GUCV, it's
free and follows the open software paradigm, as is and does
the software available for it.
If you're unwilling to invest a bit of thought and effort in
setting up and maintaining an operating system such as FBSD,
then you SHOULD stick with the point'n'click kiddies.
Now, go tell your mommy she wants you.
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"People unfit for freedom---who cannot do much with it---are
hungry for power." ---Eric Hoffer
Bill Vermillion
pasta <pa...@home.net> wrote:
>I understand that it has many problems:
>1. the windows system cannot be used for much of the new windows
>software and a complicated unreliable method must be used to 'upgrade'
>the system.
The upgrades to FreeBSD are far easier than any other OS I've ever
used with the exception of Irix on $$ high priced SGI servers
and workstation.
>2. From reading this group, it only works with a limited number of printers.
There are hundreds of printers listed in the utilities.
>3. No one actually makes software for FreeBSD. All software is
>'ported' from other operating systems.
Hm. That's strange. I have clients with commercial backup
software designed expressly for FreeBSD.
>4. The only real users of FreeBSD are the (gifted) geeks who
>contribute to the code which is FreeBSD. This system would seem
>to be the ultimate automated system to massage the egos of geeky
>coders.
It's the most reliable operating system I've used. I had one
mail server up and running for over 700 days - and the only patches
required were minor applications that did NOT need a reboot.
>Why would any HOME user want to use it as an alternative desktop?
I guess it depends upon the level of the HOME users expertise.
If you want a FreeBSD based OS system that has a nice desktop
use Apples OS/X. It's a fancy windowing system based upon
FreeBSD code.
If you don't like it try some other OS - there are plenty.
You have OVER 350 distributions of Linux to try until you find the
one you like.
Bill
Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
pasta
> In article <DlDFi.105418$g.5...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> pasta <pa...@home.net> writes:
> <snip>
>> Why would any HOME user want to use it as an alternative desktop?
>
> I'll feed the troll this one time.
require your limited 'expertise' as I have had help from others. I will
make sure I dont see any more of rants.
pasta
why I have been reading here and why I have asked this question. I think
I will try FreeBSD, but if I do need help I will try to ask elsewhere as
people who post here seem to be very full of themselves (apart from your
reply which was civil)
Thank you
j.go...@mobilcom.de
> I have tried linux already and am thinking about trying FreeBSD which is
> why I have been reading here and why I have asked this question. I think
> I will try FreeBSD, but if I do need help I will try to ask elsewhere as
> people who post here seem to be very full of themselves (apart from your
> reply which was civil)
It all depends on what you're planning to do with your home machine:
If you want to learn about operating systems and system administration
your choice is just about any stable Unix-ish open source OS.
If you want to do "home office and a little internet" you might be
better off with Ubuntu or a similar pre-configured Linux distribution.
After you've found your "OS of choice" read the installation notes
and the FAQ for further information.
You'll still have questions, but by then you'll have enough background
information to phrase them a little more specific than "I read something
was difficult, why would I want this?"
</soapbox>
Jens
Giorgos Keramidas
For your information too, when you ask loaded questions, you should be
prepared to accept the loaded answers they may trigger.
*plonk*
Giorgos Keramidas
>Bill Vermillion wrote:
>> snip...
>
> I have tried linux already and am thinking about trying FreeBSD which
> is why I have been reading here and why I have asked this question. I
> think I will try FreeBSD, but if I do need help I will try to ask
> elsewhere as people who post here seem to be very full of themselves
> (apart from your reply which was civil)
You posted a question which sounded like you already assume that FreeBSD
is worthless of even trying. This is probably the reason why some of
the answers you received were angry.
If you *do* try to use FreeBSD, you spend some time learning how it
works, and you come back with specific questions about things that you
want to learn more about, I'm sure that you will get far more useful
answers.
- Giorgos
Warren Block
Hello, rac! Why did you morph?
> I understand that it has many problems:
> 1. the windows system cannot be used for much of the new windows
> software
Sentence is unclear, but perhaps a reference to the upgrade to Xorg 7.2.
A moderately painful update, but easy enough if you follow directions.
> and a complicated unreliable method must be used to 'upgrade'
> the system.
Sentence is unclear, but perhaps a reference to cvsup?
> 2. From reading this group, it only works with a limited number of printers.
Your experience with a host-based Lexmark shows that "you get what you
pay for". What happened to the other printer you were buying?
> 3. No one actually makes software for FreeBSD. All software is 'ported'
> from other operating systems.
Let's be generous and say that's based on a fundamental
misunderstanding.
> 4. The only real users of FreeBSD are the (gifted) geeks who contribute
> to the code which is FreeBSD. This system would seem to be the ultimate
> automated system to massage the egos of geeky coders.
Backhanded compliment combined with a troll; I'd give it a 6 out of 10.
> Why would any HOME user want to use it as an alternative desktop?
Freedom, speed, dependability. But that's not for everyone.
--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA
Rodney Pont
Sorry if this has gotten out before. I keep getting a failure status
and am trying to work out how to persuade s-news to post for me.
:>I've a bit of an odd problem with a j7f4 mobo, which has a pair of nics
:>identified by dmesg as RealTek 8169SC/8110SC.
It's a Realtek 8110SC according to the motherboard manual.
I've got the same motherboard. It's something to do with the driver not
taking them out of power off mode and has been fixed in a later driver
release but that's not compatible with 6.2. My solution was to go into
the BIOS and set them both to boot, they time out after a while and
they are both then available when it does boot.
I've noticed the same up/down messages and wondering if it's something
to do with power saving.
By the way which BIOS version have you got? Mine came with v4 but I had
to upgrade to v5 to get rid of memory errors. The last time I looked it
was at v7 but I couldn't get a download of it.
Also /var/log/messages has the up/down messages with the date and time.
--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk
Bob Eager
If you start off with an attack, what do you really expect?
Robert Melson
Uh, chum? Nobody said you have no right to ask questions.
But walking in anywhere with a chip on your shoulder and an
attitude that you already know the answer is a suare
guarantee that you're gonna piss somebody off.
Ciao,
Bob
Jason Bourne
>>
>> For your infomation, I have a right to ask questions.
This is a misconception; there is no "right" here.
>> I dont really require your limited 'expertise' as I have had help from
>> others.
LOL! This exemplifies your mindset in a nutshell. He is a developer and if
you wish to utilize FreeBSD you certainly require his expertise.
>> I will make sure I dont see any more of rants.
You sound young. You will get better results in life in general if you learn
to adapt to standards of behavior that exist and had evolved before you
discovered the Internet. Childlike behavior is very annoying to adults.
Suggestion: Take a look at the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922
Really, I'm not trying to flame you. I'm merely trying to suggest it is your
attitude which is in need of some adjustment. Open your mind to the idea
that maybe it's you with the problem; not everyone else. If you realize
this and change your ways you'd be very surprised at how helpful the gurus
in this group can be when they choose.
-Jason
[snip]
Bill Laird
Few problems with the OS, secure but isn't too clever with desktop toys nor
with Software driven plastic printers.
Any PCL compliant laser or inkjet printer will work in ALL above OS usually
without adding any specific drivers!!
Four OS on this system xp, vista, linux and FreeBSD I use FreeBSD about 90%
of the time.
Others I mostly use to check web how pages will work/ look.
1. Windows likely the best place to use Windows software anyway!
Vista can't use a lot of Windows software!!!
Upgrade: Well I port in a few extra applications: make install clean is
pretty heavy stuff [NOT].
Must admit I'm lazy about daily upgrades - Just wait load the next release.
Though I do update XP, Vista I have not always bothered.
- if it aint broke don't fix it -
2. Recently an item on this news group re someone wanting desperately to
write a printer driver for a Brother PSC.
Suspicion led me to Google wherein I find the Printer, Scanner, Copier Fax
costs $50 US. Really, is anyone going to spend hours writing a driver for a
printer that you'd likely be best to throw out when requires new ink
cartridges?
3. Unix, Linux FreeBSD [*nix] software is largely X platform and often multi
user capable. Try running many windows applications over a network = single
user just PAY for another copy...
4. Home users [esp. of Vista] are increasingly going over to the cleaner
Linux and a few to FreeBSD.
Over the top Vista. To an initially confusing array of Linux distributions -
A few are excellent else to FreeBSD with say KDE. A bit more common sense
needed to install it - but you're in danger of learning something.
While I still write a bit of code for fun. I contribute nothing to the
FreeBSD effort. Geek - Only to Windows USERS who are amazed if someone can
manage to copy a file from the DOS [CMD] prompt.
Last:
Under *nix you have a whole range of 'desktops' to select from.
Depends whether the HOME USER is interested in learning or just playing
around with wizards to get QUICK results.
e.g. The first web site I 'fixed' for someone else was written in Fontpage,
did not work because the user had referenced stuff on drive C: etc.
Took me one evening to re-write the site in a simple text editor, upload and
test the site and check W3C standards.
- My humble code was ONE SEVENTH the size of the original!
- The code I wrote COULD easily be written by any semi-competent 10 year old
child using WINDOWS NOTEDPAD
- Why Change from WINDOWS at all if be god's own?
- Try a MAC if you like competent simplicity.
- Unix preceded DOS, Windows, Linux etc by some decades.
For me FreeBSD is a relief from the daily drudge of re-loading virally
infected, fragmented, slow running Windows systems for HOME users.
Hey I just tried Dreamscene on Vista Ultimate extras [Really].
Nothing like an MPEG video running as a desktop background.
Rooly power user stuff that: 30-50% CPU useage [wow] [Quad core anyone?]
I found too many 'desktop movies', tried one titled "Liquid Dreams". Says
much about the whole concept.
--
Bill
AMD64 - FreeBSD 6.2
'The road less travelled'
Mike Scott
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:31:12 GMT, Mike Scott wrote:
>
> Sorry if this has gotten out before. I keep getting a failure status
> and am trying to work out how to persuade s-news to post for me.
>
> :>I've a bit of an odd problem with a j7f4 mobo, which has a pair of nics
> :>identified by dmesg as RealTek 8169SC/8110SC.
>
> It's a Realtek 8110SC according to the motherboard manual.
>
> I've got the same motherboard. It's something to do with the driver not
> taking them out of power off mode and has been fixed in a later driver
> release but that's not compatible with 6.2. My solution was to go into
> the BIOS and set them both to boot, they time out after a while and
> they are both then available when it does boot.
>
> I've noticed the same up/down messages and wondering if it's something
> to do with power saving.
>
> By the way which BIOS version have you got? Mine came with v4 but I had
> to upgrade to v5 to get rid of memory errors. The last time I looked it
> was at v7 but I couldn't get a download of it.
>
> Also /var/log/messages has the up/down messages with the date and time.
>
Seems to be in the wrong thread.... newsreader problem maybe???
I've no idea how to fix that from t'bird. Anyway, remaining well OT,
I've got the A07 BIOS (after trying a pre-release L0K version to fix
memory problems.) I'll check out the nic boot idea - thanks.
I'll put any further progress comments in the appropriate thread; I've
changed the title of this post.
--
Mike Scott (unet <at> scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England
Bill Vermillion
You just tweeked the hot buttons on a few.
The problem I have with Linux is that it changes often and
sometimes arbitrarily. It also tends to deprecated certain
functions instead of retaing backward compatibility and then
nagging you when you use the wrong syntax.
And so many of the Linux vendors try to differentiate themselves
from the competition that often things are in very different places
depending upon the distribution.
I've also found the FreeBSD installs have been more stable
than the Linux versions I've worked with - at some clients who got
into Linux because it was the 'hot' free OS at the time.
FreeBSD is quite customizable and you can build very small systems
- in case you just need to build a firewall or something that is
going to be a one purpose box. It's not hard to make a running
system with only a 500MB drive and still have space to operate in.
What I like mostly about FreeBSD is it's consistancy. I've been
running Unix and Unix-like systems since 1983 and was running
one of the three major news servers in this are in the mid-1980s.
And so much of all the system remain quite similar. There is
a 'man hierarchy' in FreeBSD which designates where things should
go - but you don't have to follow that.
The Linux distros often like to use and entire drive with only one
file system. I've seen enough crashed - and they mostly occure on
the / partition as it gets written all the time - that having
the OS on / and all you apps on another partition make recovery
much easier. You could also reinstall the OS on / without
bothering anything you had before.
I look at things differently and definately not from a desktop
point-of-view - as I've been self-support self-employed
working in Unix for 20+ years. I'm sort of a system-admin for hire
for small businesses that don't need anyone full time.
As to your comment about going elsewhere to find information - this
group is going to be one of the best places. The other it to
get on the mailing lists from FreeBSD.org as there are about 50 or
so - all dealing with specific subjects. I start with joining the
'questions' list.
Your original post looked more like a typical troll posting so
that's why you got some of the answers you did. This group
is one of the best technical oriented groups with the least amount
of 'advocacy' and cheer-leading with minmal content than any group
I've used and I've been on Usenet since 1984 - back in the days of
UUCP and 1200 BSP modems before the superfast Telebit Trailblazer
broke upon the seen.
One thing to remember about usenet is that you have to be sure
not to read more into a post than is actually there - and your
frame of mind can contribute to your impressions - and another is
to just ignore those that may disagree with you.
As to my 'civil' reply - it's just that I've learned to try not
to use words that could be interpreted in different ways depending
upon the mood of the reviwer. And on top of that I moved to email
for most of my communications back in 1979 over 'speedy' 300bps
modems. Googling for my name will probably bring up 100's of
entries if not thousands on all sorts of topics.
Give FreeBSD a good try, and do come back, and also subscribe
to at least the questions newsletter.
Bill Vermillion
You need to check your attributions. The above looks like
I said that while the OP did.
I moved to FreeBSD at an ISP from very expensive SGI servers and
workstations and got twice the performance [a guess] with
less horsepower - 200Mhz Pentiums instead of 400MHz RISC chips -
and at about 1/4 the cost. I haven't found anthing that comes
close. And one of my web servers I maintain always comes
up #1 with just one keyword on all three of the top search engines.
It's been that way for about 5 years.
In case you are interested it's http://www.springbreak.com
It gets really busy right after the first of the year.
?
Preface... I'm one of those weirdos that regularly uses
Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and AIX and my mantra is
"They all suck differently."
> The problem I have with Linux is that it changes often and
> sometimes arbitrarily. It also tends to deprecated certain
> functions instead of retaing backward compatibility and then
> nagging you when you use the wrong syntax.
You might want to differentiate between Linux the kernel
and all the software one needs to make the kernel useful.
It's a trade off, Linux the kernel can sometimes embrace
new technology or new techniques earlier (Lack of PAE on
NetBSD being the current thorn in my side). The downside
is it's harder to do full regression testing and keep everything
in sync.
>
> And so many of the Linux vendors try to differentiate themselves
> from the competition that often things are in very different places
> depending upon the distribution.
They tend to diverge about as much as the BSDs do for things like
interface configuration, firewall configuration, daemon startup...
It boils down to "Is this kind of diversity an impairment to how
I work?"
>
> I've also found the FreeBSD installs have been more stable
> than the Linux versions I've worked with - at some clients who got
> into Linux because it was the 'hot' free OS at the time.
When was the last time you encountered a client that was eager
to go with Linux because it was free (as in beer)?
I last encountered that mindset in 2001 for servers.
I last encountered that mindset for a data migration with hard
deadline in 2003, and "I can get it running faster than you can
cut a purchase order" was the deciding factor.
>
> FreeBSD is quite customizable and you can build very small systems
> - in case you just need to build a firewall or something that is
> going to be a one purpose box. It's not hard to make a running
> system with only a 500MB drive and still have space to operate in.
How's the crossbuild facility these days if I wanted to target
say an ARM system with significantly less storage?
> The Linux distros often like to use and entire drive with only one
> file system. I've seen enough crashed - and they mostly occure on
> the / partition as it gets written all the time - that having
> the OS on / and all you apps on another partition make recovery
> much easier. You could also reinstall the OS on / without
> bothering anything you had before.
It's not so much like to use as it's the default so it's quick and easy
to do a demo for the PHBs.
The commercial distros and major non-commercial distros have since
tried to be more like AIX and HPUX and offer fairly easy paths to
install with multiple filesystems on LVM, which leads to new
opportunities for pain in a system recovery :-).
>
> I look at things differently and definately not from a desktop
> point-of-view - as I've been self-support self-employed
> working in Unix for 20+ years. I'm sort of a system-admin for hire
> for small businesses that don't need anyone full time.
Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
I have a tendency to work a while for big companies to cleanup
the messes created by "architects" that haven't done day to day
sysadmin work or programming and "sysadmins" that demonstrate the
apathy that seems to make HR happy.
--
Chris Dukes
< elfick> willg: you can't use dell to beat people, it wouldn't stand up
to the strain... much like attacking a tank with a wiffle bat
?
You do realize that you look like a troll for atleast the following reasons.
1) You chose quite the antagonistic subject line.
2) You're pretending to be coming from a domain that is likely to have
no knowledge you exist.
3) Instead of indicating how the mainstream is failing to meet your needs
you badmouth that which you claim to be interested in.
Try indicating what you're trying to do (Because HOME Desktop could mean
anything from running playing solitaire, to trying to run for office,
to trying to develop the replacement for the INTARWEB).
> I understand that it has many problems:
> 1. the windows system cannot be used for much of the new windows
> software and a complicated unreliable method must be used to 'upgrade'
> the system.
The outside party that created the windowing system used by the system
has implemented a planned change in how the window system is built,
packaged, and distributed.
That change has created issues for all Unixlike operating systems that
use the windowing system. Many of the other Unixlike operating systems
resolved the issue by requiring users "fdisk, format, and reinstall"
instead of providing an in place upgrade path.
> 2. From reading this group, it only works with a limited number of printers.
You might want to elucidate on "limited number of printers."
If you goal is to get something that works with the cheapest
printer you can find in the store, odds are it's only supported on Microsoft
Windows at this point in time.
If you're willing to read the documentation on the printing subsystem
and read the list of hardware supported by the back ends, you'll find that
most of the printers in a store are supported.
> 3. No one actually makes software for FreeBSD. All software is 'ported'
> from other operating systems.
You may wish to reduce the size of the universe of your assertion.
FreeBSD takes from the Unix heritage where, either by usefulness or
a better bid from a different vendor, the platform that is best to
run a piece of software may not have been the platform it was developed on.
Usually it doesn't matter unless a software project is consistantly
developed by developers that insist on writing non-portable code.
> 4. The only real users of FreeBSD are the (gifted) geeks who contribute
> to the code which is FreeBSD. This system would seem to be the ultimate
> automated system to massage the egos of geeky coders.
When FreeBSD has been my primary choice for a project, it has been because
it provided the tools I needed in a timely fashion out of the box.
At current moment NetBSD is slightly further ahead with what I currently need.
That is likely to change at a future date.
>
> Why would any HOME user want to use it as an alternative desktop?
Alternative meaning alternative to the desktop they use most of the time
or alternative to what most people are running?
A HOME user may end up using it as their primary desktop because
1) It provides the functionality and stability they need.
2) It provides the functionality and stability needed by the poor
family member or friend that provides support for them.
If you need someone else to convince you to run something, choose something
where there are plenty of skillful advertisers telling you to run it.
If you need to run something different because those things that are
mainstream aren't meeting your needs you might want to indicate
what you are trying to do, what you've tried, and why you didn't
like those things. If you can't do that, you're doomed to forever be
unhappy.
Giorgos Keramidas
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:52:39 GMT in <Jo9r3...@wjv.com> Bill Vermillion <b...@wjv.com> wrote:
>> FreeBSD is quite customizable and you can build very small systems
>> - in case you just need to build a firewall or something that is
>> going to be a one purpose box. It's not hard to make a running
>> system with only a 500MB drive and still have space to operate in.
>
> How's the crossbuild facility these days if I wanted to target
> say an ARM system with significantly less storage?
Pretty good. There is support in the source tree itself for
cross-building many architectures. You can even use a "make universe"
target, which cross-builds several architectures in one go.
The freebsd-arm and freebsd-embedded mailing lists are probably the best
places around to ask about the more technical details :)
- Giorgos
Giorgos Keramidas
> In article <87fy1jv...@kobe.laptop>,
> Giorgos Keramidas <kera...@ceid.upatras.gr> wrote:
>>On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:11:12 GMT, pasta <pa...@home.net> wrote:
>>>Bill Vermillion wrote:
>>>> snip...
>>>
>>> I have tried linux already and am thinking about trying FreeBSD which
>>> is why I have been reading here and why I have asked this question. I
>>> think I will try FreeBSD, but if I do need help I will try to ask
>>> elsewhere as people who post here seem to be very full of themselves
>>> (apart from your reply which was civil)
>>
>>You posted a question which sounded like you already assume that FreeBSD
>>is worthless of even trying. This is probably the reason why some of
>>the answers you received were angry.
>>
>>If you *do* try to use FreeBSD, you spend some time learning how it
>>works, and you come back with specific questions about things that you
>>want to learn more about, I'm sure that you will get far more useful
>>answers.
>
> I said that while the OP did.
Hi Bill,
I know your name from other posts here, so there's no way I would expect
a post from you saying what the OP wrote. I should have trimmed your
name, that's true.
I apologize for any confusion caused by keeping both attribution lines.
> In case you are interested it's http://www.springbreak.com
Heh. I didn't know *you* are the administrator behind this one :)
- Giorgos
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Bill Laird <willia...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Hey I just tried Dreamscene on Vista Ultimate extras [Really].
> Nothing like an MPEG video running as a desktop background.
This is new ??? mplayer -rootwin has worked on anything with XVideo
support for *years* - it must be at least five years ago I used it for
watching TV on an AMD XP1200 box.
--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/
Max Haus
>
> A HOME user may end up using it as their primary desktop because
> 1) It provides the functionality and stability they need.
> 2) It provides the functionality and stability needed by the poor
> family member or friend that provides support for them.
>
Yes, and the $$$ you pay for this functionality and stability is nothing.
Seriously, it's a point that sometimes seems to be lost. The trade off
between paying for the equivalent functionality in Windows or using say
FreeBSD, is investing some more of your time reading about,
understanding and learning how to do certain operations.
Bill Laird
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:52:17 GMT
> Bill Laird <willia...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey I just tried Dreamscene on Vista Ultimate extras [Really].
>> Nothing like an MPEG video running as a desktop background.
>
> This is new ??? mplayer -rootwin has worked on anything with XVideo
> support for *years* - it must be at least five years ago I used it for
> watching TV on an AMD XP1200 box.
>
I also wrote:
"Rooly power user stuff that: 30-50% CPU useage [wow] [Quad core anyone?]"
I was smiling, being facetious when I wrote about Dreamscene NOT promoting
the idea!
Basically the idea of a 'movie on the desktop' as a BACKGROUND image is a
waste of space, CPU cycles, distracting the way I see it. No doubt it MAY
have some useful purpose for a few people.
Likewise I've used mplayer and others to watch movies full screen on odd
occasions [since FreeBSD 4] but I don't want to use a movie as a background
image on any OS...
Have also looked at Enlightenment desktop and tried it's desktop applets
etc. Cute! but for my humble purposes Blackbox suffices!
cheers
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Bill Laird <willia...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:52:17 GMT
> > Bill Laird <willia...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey I just tried Dreamscene on Vista Ultimate extras [Really].
> >> Nothing like an MPEG video running as a desktop background.
> >
> > This is new ??? mplayer -rootwin has worked on anything with XVideo
> > support for *years* - it must be at least five years ago I used it for
> > watching TV on an AMD XP1200 box.
> >
>
> I also wrote:
> "Rooly power user stuff that: 30-50% CPU useage [wow] [Quad core anyone?]"
Got to do something with all that CPU power - couldn't possibly
find anything useful to do with it :)
> I was smiling, being facetious when I wrote about Dreamscene NOT promoting
> the idea!
Oh sure - but I'll bet it's being marketed as something new and
cool that couldn't be done before.
> Basically the idea of a 'movie on the desktop' as a BACKGROUND image is a
> waste of space, CPU cycles, distracting the way I see it.
Indeed it is - unless the idea is to watch the movie (ie empty
desktop) but still be able to bring up the root menu and do things if you
want to, When I used it for watching TV I used the rootwin option (ie
background image) on a blank desktop. Having a movie going on in the
background while I'm working - now that's silly ... hmm although Crystal
Voyager might be nice :)
> Have also looked at Enlightenment desktop and tried it's desktop applets
> etc. Cute! but for my humble purposes Blackbox suffices!
I've been happy with flwm for many years now.
Bill Vermillion
Actually my partner in the ISP owns that. I keep the software
under-the-hood running and he does the visual stuff.
I just don't have a good eye for that.
We run a small niche market ISP - but are on Level 3's backbone in
their colo.
We picked up some sites when some major providers could not
provide exactly what they wanted but we could.
As an example you can look at:
http://www.aafassociation.org also now known as http://www.amwa.tv
The 'members' listing is quite eye-opening for the names
involved.
or try
http://www.videoservicesforum.org
Since we both worked in media environments before we understand
the needs.
The nice thing about having sites like that is that when someone
has problems they all are tehcnically oriented and I don't ever
have to tell anyone where the 'any' key is.
Bill Vermillion
? <pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:52:39 GMT in <Jo9r3...@wjv.com> Bill Vermillion <b...@wjv.com> wrote:
>Preface... I'm one of those weirdos that regularly uses
>Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and AIX and my mantra is
>"They all suck differently."
>> The problem I have with Linux is that it changes often and
>> sometimes arbitrarily. It also tends to deprecated certain
>> functions instead of retaing backward compatibility and then
>> nagging you when you use the wrong syntax.
>You might want to differentiate between Linux the kernel
>and all the software one needs to make the kernel useful.
>It's a trade off, Linux the kernel can sometimes embrace
>new technology or new techniques earlier (Lack of PAE on
>NetBSD being the current thorn in my side). The downside
>is it's harder to do full regression testing and keep everything
>in sync.
Since most of my admins on Linux are on small/medium business
systems I don't have to worry about things like that too much.
I really like the /usr/local/* concept in the BSDs while in
the Linux distros you can find the location of the web server
in many different places.
And some of the graphic type admin tools to set things up can lead
you astray. I got bitten when sendmail would send email messages
that were ALWAYS rejected by MS based mail servers but accepted by
everyone else. It turns out there was an errant period that got
in during the graphics set up tool. That one was a bit bizarre
to find as the error messages from MS were easy to mis-interpret
>> And so many of the Linux vendors try to differentiate themselves
>> from the competition that often things are in very different places
>> depending upon the distribution.
>They tend to diverge about as much as the BSDs do for things like
>interface configuration, firewall configuration, daemon startup...
>It boils down to "Is this kind of diversity an impairment to how
>I work?"
It's app placement that strikes me as strange such as the
/srv directory on SuSE where you place the web server.
>> I've also found the FreeBSD installs have been more stable
>> than the Linux versions I've worked with - at some clients who got
>> into Linux because it was the 'hot' free OS at the time.
>When was the last time you encountered a client that was eager
>to go with Linux because it was free (as in beer)?
>I last encountered that mindset in 2001 for servers.
>I last encountered that mindset for a data migration with hard
>deadline in 2003, and "I can get it running faster than you can
>cut a purchase order" was the deciding factor.
Well I often come in after things were done and the previous admin
had left. That can be really strange. The most interesting one
was a Linux system that had been admined by someone who had
grown up in a pure SysV world - as she had worked for Gould
when they had those magnificent beasts they called "The
FireBreathers" - probably the best video/graphics environment
at that time until SGI came along.
>> FreeBSD is quite customizable and you can build very small systems
>> - in case you just need to build a firewall or something that is
>> going to be a one purpose box. It's not hard to make a running
>> system with only a 500MB drive and still have space to operate in.
>How's the crossbuild facility these days if I wanted to target
>say an ARM system with significantly less storage?
I have no clue.
>> The Linux distros often like to use and entire drive with only one
>> file system. I've seen enough crashed - and they mostly occure on
>> the / partition as it gets written all the time - that having
>> the OS on / and all you apps on another partition make recovery
>> much easier. You could also reinstall the OS on / without
>> bothering anything you had before.
>It's not so much like to use as it's the default so it's quick and easy
>to do a demo for the PHBs.
And it turns out that the vendors who sell to clients often use
that model - much to my chagrin.
>The commercial distros and major non-commercial distros have since
>tried to be more like AIX and HPUX and offer fairly easy paths to
>install with multiple filesystems on LVM, which leads to new
>opportunities for pain in a system recovery :-).
I haven't been near an AIX in years - and I installed it
on a '386 platform - when IBM had it for their MCA machines.
One of the longest installed I've ever done. But their
documentation was about the best out there. FreeBSD's documentat
on is also really good - and I was able to acquire the
O'Reilly 4.4BSD doc set before it was discontinued.
>> I look at things differently and definately not from a desktop
>> point-of-view - as I've been self-support self-employed
>> working in Unix for 20+ years. I'm sort of a system-admin for hire
>> for small businesses that don't need anyone full time.
>Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
>I have a tendency to work a while for big companies to cleanup
>the messes created by "architects" that haven't done day to day
>sysadmin work or programming and "sysadmins" that demonstrate the
>apathy that seems to make HR happy.
I only worked one time for a big company - and I was just part
of an outside group - but saw enough of BIG that I'm glad I didn't
work for one. Largest company I worked for had about 70 employees
running an AM/FM/TV operation - from a previous career track.
We built which was probably the first on-line interactive
electonics parts catalog using a Sony 1000 ?? laserdisk player,
that interfaced with a Sony computer [running 3.5" disks before
the Mac came out] running CP/M with a laser-disk extension to the
suplied BASIC. That was in the fall of 1983. It was done
for the steam-turbine division of Westinghouse, but was only used
in production in the bus manufacturing division from what I
understand.
The guy I"m working with now did all the laser-disc production
having the only authoring facility south of Atlanta and did a
lot of laserdisk work for the local military and educational
companies.
That was fun - and I made so much money in such a short time that I
wound up being self-employed from that time onward. Of course
when you get time-and-a-half for anything over 8 hours per day and
the final day I was on the clock for 23 hours straight - and we
turned it over to them 2 hours before the 'big show' - which
as the saying at that time 'knocked their socks off'.
The ONLY inputs were a lightpen driving the parts layouts on
the Sony interface, and a mouse an an IBM PC running the
then relatively new DOS 2.0.
It's always something new.
Bill Vermillion
<pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:00:19 GMT in
><DlDFi.105418$g.5...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk> pasta
><pa...@home.net> wrote:
>You do realize that you look like a troll for atleast the
>following reasons. 1) You chose quite the antagonistic subject
>line. 2) You're pretending to be coming from a domain that is
>likely to have no knowledge you exist. 3) Instead of indicating
>how the mainstream is failing to meet your needs you badmouth
>that which you claim to be interested in.
[most snipped as I have only one question in your reply]
>Try indicating what you're trying to do (Because HOME Desktop could mean
>The outside party that created the windowing system used by the system
>has implemented a planned change in how the window system is built,
>packaged, and distributed.
>That change has created issues for all Unixlike operating systems that
>use the windowing system. Many of the other Unixlike operating systems
>resolved the issue by requiring users "fdisk, format, and reinstall"
>instead of providing an in place upgrade path.
Which Unixlike system require the 'fdisk, format, and reinstall'.
That surely doesn't fit 'unixlike' the way I view it :-)
Rodney Pont
:>Seems to be in the wrong thread.... newsreader problem maybe???
No, user problem... not taking enough care while pasting in case it did
get sent.
I did post in the correct thread and I think it went out.
jpd
Begin <slrnfegjol...@roadrunner.com>
On 12 Sep 2007 20:41:57 GMT, ? <pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
>
> Preface... I'm one of those weirdos that regularly uses
> Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and AIX and my mantra is
> "They all suck differently."
My comment is ``I like Guinness, but AIX... not so much'' and maybe
someone here will even understand the reference. Possibly.
[snip!]
> Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
> I have a tendency to work a while for big companies to cleanup
> the messes created by "architects" that haven't done day to day
> sysadmin work or programming and "sysadmins" that demonstrate the
> apathy that seems to make HR happy.
I still have to figure out how to get paid for being an "architect".
But it seems that if you've once done the gruntwork, there's this glass
ceiling. It's not just the wimmins that run into it. ;-)
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
Mark South
> [old message. catching up. yadda yadda.]
> Begin <slrnfegjol...@roadrunner.com>
> On 12 Sep 2007 20:41:57 GMT, ? <pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
>>
>> Preface... I'm one of those weirdos that regularly uses
>> Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and AIX and my mantra is
>> "They all suck differently."
>
> My comment is ``I like Guinness, but AIX... not so much'' and maybe
> someone here will even understand the reference. Possibly.
I understand the reference, but personally I prefer AIX to Guinness. And
I don't like AIX that much.
> [snip!]
>> Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
>> I have a tendency to work a while for big companies to cleanup
>> the messes created by "architects" that haven't done day to day
>> sysadmin work or programming and "sysadmins" that demonstrate the
>> apathy that seems to make HR happy.
>
> I still have to figure out how to get paid for being an "architect".
> But it seems that if you've once done the gruntwork, there's this glass
> ceiling. It's not just the wimmins that run into it. ;-)
To get paid for being an architect, you need to be using your
architectural skills to design stuff that somebody wants and nobody has.
Like, don't get stuck designing customer relationship management databases.
warp...@gmail.com
> Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
Newcomer! :-)
(see sig)
Bob Eager
That was me...forgot the GG account doesn't *have* the sig...!
Stan Barr
>On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 19:38:58 UTC, warp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sep 12, 8:41 pm, ? <pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
>> > Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
>>
>> Newcomer! :-)
>>
>> (see sig)
>
>That was me...forgot the GG account doesn't *have* the sig...!
>
I was about to pass comment, but you've cleared that up :-)
>--
>Bob Eager
>UNIX since v6..
I've got v6 running and I am working through the Lion's Commentary
and learning a lot...
(UNIX since SVR3)
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com
(Remove any digits from the addresses when mailing me.)
The future was never like this!
Bob Eager
wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2007 20:17:14 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 19:38:58 UTC, warp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 12, 8:41 pm, ? <pak...@localhost.pr.neotoma.org> wrote:
> >> > Ah, another old fart... I'm almost at the 2 decade point with Unix.
> >>
> >> Newcomer! :-)
> >>
> >> (see sig)
> >
> >That was me...forgot the GG account doesn't *have* the sig...!
>
> I was about to pass comment, but you've cleared that up :-)
>
> >--
> >Bob Eager
> >UNIX since v6..
>
> I've got v6 running and I am working through the Lion's Commentary
> and learning a lot...
>
> (UNIX since SVR3)
I'm hoping to get it running on a real PDP-11 soon...!
( we had v6 in 1976, and I read Lions just after it was first published.
It wasn't my copy, but I got one about ten years ago...)
--
Bob Eager
UNIX since v6..
Stan Barr
>On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:08:06 UTC, sta...@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
>wrote:
>>
>> and learning a lot...
>>
>> (UNIX since SVR3)
>
>I'm hoping to get it running on a real PDP-11 soon...!
Sadly the power supply in my PDP-11/73 died recently, and I haven't fixed
it yet, but it wont run v6 anyway!
I run v5 (1974) on my "Fake" PDP - a 486/100 running Ersatz-11 under MSDOS,
complete with real blinkenlites, but sadly, no switches :-(
FreeBSD here runs on UltraSparc-64 bit, a long way from a PDP-11...
Bob Eager
wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2007 07:33:02 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:08:06 UTC, sta...@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> I've got v6 running and I am working through the Lion's Commentary
> >> and learning a lot...
> >>
> >> (UNIX since SVR3)
> >
> >I'm hoping to get it running on a real PDP-11 soon...!
>
> Sadly the power supply in my PDP-11/73 died recently, and I haven't fixed
> it yet, but it wont run v6 anyway!
>
> I run v5 (1974) on my "Fake" PDP - a 486/100 running Ersatz-11 under MSDOS,
> complete with real blinkenlites, but sadly, no switches :-(
>
> FreeBSD here runs on UltraSparc-64 bit, a long way from a PDP-11...
On various PCs here. Really must try and get 4.3BSD running on one of my
VAXes...!