LaTeX advocacy; simple text editor in Windows for LaTeX "source"
Orange Free
to clients. Traditionally, the firm I work for issues opinions on its
letterhead using WordPerfect. The opinion text is laid out on "US
letter" paper, typically doublespaced, the margins quite small and the
text quite wide. I think the lawyers think they are doing their
clients a favour by using this format: they think the text is easier
to read when doublespaced etc.
\documentclass, I think, leaves plenty of white space, single-spaces
and keeps the line length relatively short because the text will then
be easier to read, but can anyone point me to an article or a book
that can back that assertion up with some evidence? I would like to
convince my colleagues that, even if they continue to use WordPerfect
for their letters, they should try to have it lay out their documents
as LaTeX would because the text will be easier to read (if not as good
looking as it would be under LaTeX).
Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
--
John
uws
> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
Maybe Ultraedit is a good choice. Not free, however.
mvrgr, Wouter
--
uws mail u...@xs4all.nl
you're the mixed up girl that everybody leaves behind -- our lady peace
Brooks Moses
> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
I am personally quite fond of NoteTab (www.notetab.com). It's something
that anyone who can use Notepad should be able to pick up and use the
basic capabilities of without training or difficulty, and most things
are available in a straightforward way from the menus.
For power-users, though, it also has capability to do regex
search-and-replace, and a scripting language such that (for example) you
could create a button on the toolbar that will run the
currently-displayed file through pdflatex and display the result in
acroread. (I don't personally know how to do that, but there's a fairly
active mailing list -- details on their homepage -- dealing with the
scripting language, and a polite inquiry there should get you the
details of how to do it in short order.)
- Brooks
Robert Heller
In a message on Sat, 24 May 2003 00:03:54 GMT, wrote :
OF> I am starting to use LaTeX within a law firm for memoranda and letters
OF> to clients. Traditionally, the firm I work for issues opinions on its
OF> letterhead using WordPerfect. The opinion text is laid out on "US
OF> letter" paper, typically doublespaced, the margins quite small and the
OF> text quite wide. I think the lawyers think they are doing their
OF> clients a favour by using this format: they think the text is easier
OF> to read when doublespaced etc.
They may also be thinking of leaving space for people to scribble
comments between the lines.
OF>
OF> \documentclass, I think, leaves plenty of white space, single-spaces
OF> and keeps the line length relatively short because the text will then
OF> be easier to read, but can anyone point me to an article or a book
OF> that can back that assertion up with some evidence? I would like to
OF> convince my colleagues that, even if they continue to use WordPerfect
OF> for their letters, they should try to have it lay out their documents
OF> as LaTeX would because the text will be easier to read (if not as good
OF> looking as it would be under LaTeX).
There is a variable spacing package for LaTeX (the successor to
doublespace.sty).
OF>
OF> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
OF> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
OF> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
OF> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
OF> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
Your secretary can actually use MS-Word or WordPerfect to edit LaTeX
file (really!). She (or he) just has to remember not to have much fun
with formatting and to select 'Save as Text' under the Save As item
under the File menu.
I believe there is some sort of LaTeX-smart editor people use with
MikTeX (WEdt?).
OF>
OF> --
OF> John
OF>
Christian Riis
> Your secretary can actually use MS-Word or WordPerfect to edit LaTeX
> file (really!).
[SNIP]
Yeah, it's kinda ironic. :)
Regards.
Christian
--
03 Schnurrbart Dali
Schmal; lange Spitzen im Bogen oder steil nach oben gerichtet; Haare
nur bis Ende der Oberlippe erlaubt.
Hilfsmittel* erlaubt!
Russell Shaw
> I am starting to use LaTeX within a law firm for memoranda and letters
> to clients. Traditionally, the firm I work for issues opinions on its
> letterhead using WordPerfect. The opinion text is laid out on "US
> letter" paper, typically doublespaced, the margins quite small and the
> text quite wide. I think the lawyers think they are doing their
> clients a favour by using this format: they think the text is easier
> to read when doublespaced etc.
>
> \documentclass, I think, leaves plenty of white space, single-spaces
> and keeps the line length relatively short because the text will then
> be easier to read, but can anyone point me to an article or a book
> that can back that assertion up with some evidence? I would like to
> convince my colleagues that, even if they continue to use WordPerfect
> for their letters, they should try to have it lay out their documents
> as LaTeX would because the text will be easier to read (if not as good
> looking as it would be under LaTeX).
Readability and layout is discussed in:
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/supported/memoir/memman.pdf
Ingo H. de Boer
maybe you wanna try WinShell?
greets
Ingo
--
Ingo H. de Boer
http://www.winshell.de
A graphical user interface for easy working with TeX.
Orange Free
Robert Heller wrote:
> They may also be thinking of leaving space for people to scribble
> comments between the lines.
No, the opinions are sent out that way in final form. In any case,
\documentclass leaves large margins for scribbling.
> There is a variable spacing package for LaTeX (the successor to
> doublespace.sty).
Right, but I want to avoid doublespacing -- I think it looks terrible.
Eric Austin
> MikTeX (WEdt?).
WinEdt (winedt.com) is a is a wonderful front end to MikTeX (www.miktex.org).
EMA
Robert Heller
In a message on Sat, 24 May 2003 10:57:49 GMT, wrote :
OF> In article <c32a3$3ecec085$d0c7e1fd$32...@nf1.news-service.com>,
OF> Robert Heller wrote:
OF>
OF> > They may also be thinking of leaving space for people to scribble
OF> > comments between the lines.
OF>
OF> No, the opinions are sent out that way in final form. In any case,
OF> \documentclass leaves large margins for scribbling.
I'm thinking that whoever *receives* the opinions might want to scribble
comments. I can't think why. It *might* be some silly hold-over from
days past. Note that in the 'old days' of typewritten manuscripts,
publishers & editors wanted double-spaced typewritten manuscripts, not
so much for 'scribbling' as to allow the typographical designer to make
notations for the typesetter: 'Make this bit in italic and set this
other bit in bold', etc. Modern eletronic document preparation does all
of this already, but I can imagine that the 'tradition' has been set in
stone or something and the current generation of lawyers no longer
remember why and are either 'used' to the 'ugly' format or are else
rationalizing the stupid tradition in a way as to avoid making it look
like like they are hidebound for no good reason.
OF>
OF> > There is a variable spacing package for LaTeX (the successor to
OF> > doublespace.sty).
OF>
OF> Right, but I want to avoid doublespacing -- I think it looks terrible.
OF>
I agree -- I was just pointing out that LaTeX can be made to do dumb
things if one *really, really* wants to. One can also have way too much
fun with \textwidth=, \oddsidemargin=, and \evensidemargin= in one's
preamble as well. One can also play with \textheight= and \topmargin=
as well. One really should not in general, but one can...
Randall Wood
>
> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
For your Windows text-editor needs, I recommend Editpad. You can find it
at tucows.com, probably. It's free, good looking and intuitive, and not
so complicated as to confuse anyone. It's "postcard-ware." If you like
it, you send the author a postcard in lieu of payment. I like it quite a
bit. It happens to highlight syntax if you want to, but it's an option.
Ulrike Fischer
> I'm thinking that whoever *receives* the opinions might want to scribble
> comments. I can't think why. It *might* be some silly hold-over from
> days past. Note that in the 'old days' of typewritten manuscripts,
> publishers & editors wanted double-spaced typewritten manuscripts, not
> so much for 'scribbling' as to allow the typographical designer to make
> notations for the typesetter: 'Make this bit in italic and set this
> other bit in bold', etc.
publishers and editors don't use the space between lines for
corrections and notations. The "rules for typesetter" which tell the
typesetter how to use the margin for this are rather old (at least in
Germany). It's people which has nothing to do with publishing like
teachers or professors who seems to think it's a good idea to use the
place between for commentaries and corrections.
But I guess the doublespaced lines cames up because the lines are to
long and the margin are to small: long lines need more baselineskip if
you don't want to loose the line with you eyes.
And there is the loose of printing quality when you use an (old)
inkprinter or a fax machine. With more space between the lines you get
not such a blob of black ink (I myself use more baselineskip when I
want to fax a document).
Ulrike Fischer
Joachim Schlosser
> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
I recommend TeXnicCenter, which is free and has plenty of
buttons. It is ideal with MikTeX and simple to start with.
Joachim
Orange Free
Robert Heller wrote:
> I'm thinking that whoever *receives* the opinions might want to scribble
> comments.
If the opinion has been issued in final form, it is highly unlikely
that it would be scribbled on.
> It *might* be some silly hold-over from days past.
With all due respect to the members of my guild, I think you give them
too much credit. I doubt that obeisance to the past explains the
matter. In general, lawyers seem quite careless about the appearance
of their letters and other documents. They are quite concerned with
content, but they make few concessions to their readers otherwise. I
wonder at this behaviour because the lawyer's only tangible product,
generally, is the written word.
> I agree -- I was just pointing out that LaTeX can be made to do dumb
> things if one *really, really* wants to. One can also have way too
> much fun with \textwidth=, \oddsidemargin=, and \evensidemargin= in
> one's preamble as well. One can also play with \textheight= and
> \topmargin= as well. One really should not in general, but one
> can...
Which is another argument for using LaTeX in a law office: it prevents
secretaries and lawyers fiddling with such matters (easily) and
thereby wasting their time and getting it wrong anyway.
William F. Adams
in the US is often specified in various bits of law or regulations---I
distinctly recall having found at least one such when researching the origin of
legal-sized (8.5" x 14") paper. Being able to easily count lines / compare
document lengths &c. as well as being able to strike out and replace something
easily are also considerations.
The only suggestion I've not yet seen here is LyX---the QT version for Windows
is quite nice, and very much like to a normal Windows app---should be quite
easy to strip out documentclasses / template options so that it's pretty much
impossible for anyone to get anything wrong accidentally.
William
--
William Adams
http://members.aol.com/willadams
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> I would like to
> convince my colleagues that, even if they continue to use WordPerfect
> for their letters, they should try to have it lay out their documents
> as LaTeX would because the text will be easier to read (if not as good
> looking as it would be under LaTeX).
A good text on typography could help, Tschichold is in German but a
decent English introduction comes with the memoir package. A more fancy
solution would be to get a desiner to create a standard format for your
company, with letterhead and everything (corporate identity and all
that).
> Finally, can someone point me to a good Windows text editor like gedit
> under Linux, with plenty of buttons and the like so that my secretary
> can edit my LaTeX "source" without having to climb, say, an Emacs
> learning curve. Syntax highlighting is not necessary. You can assume
> I already know about Notepad and that vim would be a bad idea.
Personaly, I use WinEdt (Shareware), which has extensive support for TeX
and friends (and syntax highlighting). The few bucks for the program
should not be a problem in a law firm.
Ramakrishnan
regading the windows tex editor:
IMHO the best editor for your requirement is "Notetab". They have free
version to try and a paid version($9.95). But its capability as an
editor is matchless. At present it doesn't have syntax
highlighting(Not reqd in your case).
But one requirement in your environment is that there are lot of
common texts.
Like court name, plaintiff , respondent, and some standard structures
in the documents. There may be many (i dont know fully about legal
sentences.).
Your secretary can save a lot of typing work using the
"cliplibrary" features. Once you give a try, then you can see the
advantages.
As for as i know there are no cliplibrary for legal environs, but it
is not a hard one once you understand the methodolgy. (i have made
some clips for my own requirments of latex classes).
Any latex user can write the clips after spending few weeks. But
typing and generating the output is very easy with proper
configurations of latex clips
All text editors share common features but notetab has an edge over
others due to its clips.
ram
27th may 2003
Orange Free
F. Adams wrote:
> If you look around a bit, you'll find that the formatting for legal
> documents in the US is often specified in various bits of law or
> regulations
Except that I am not in the US.
> ---I distinctly recall having found at least one such when
> researching the origin of legal-sized (8.5" x 14") paper. Being able
> to easily count lines / compare document lengths &c. as well as
> being able to strike out and replace something easily are also
> considerations.
All true for documents that are being shunted back and forth as their
form is being hammered out between lawyers. None of this is true of
an opinion that has been issued in final form (my original example).
You might be right, however, that a style that is required for, say,
pleadings has been unconsciously (and in my opinion) inappropriately
adopted for other legal documents.
Thanks, everybody, for your suggestions about text editors.
Brooks Moses
> regading the windows tex editor:
> IMHO the best editor for your requirement is "Notetab". They have free
> version to try and a paid version($9.95). But its capability as an
> editor is matchless. At present it doesn't have syntax
> highlighting(Not reqd in your case).
Actually, I'd recommend the $19.95 "Pro" version over the $9.95
version. It's largely the same interface, but over a different kernel
that has the advantage of allowing multiple undo (with the number set by
the user, and can be quite high if wanted). It also has advantages with
regards to filesize and line lengths, but that's less important for me.
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
> publishers and editors don't use the space between lines for
> corrections and notations. The "rules for typesetter" which tell the
> typesetter how to use the margin for this are rather old (at least in
> Germany). It's people which has nothing to do with publishing like
> teachers or professors who seems to think it's a good idea to use the
> place between for commentaries and corrections.
Over in rec.arts.sf.composition, where there are a lot of people who've
submitted manuscripts to editors, and occasional real live editors, the
consensus seems to be that virtually all editors prefer their
manuscripts submitted in double-spaced typewriter font, and that sending
it any other way is likely to annoy them significantly. In some cases
the rigidness of this preference this has been rather vocally proclaimed
by the aforementioned editors.
I will note, incidentally, that having the page double-spaced means that
there are fewer words on the page, and so the ratio of margin-space to
wordcount is twice as large. In addition, there is the point that all
of their rules-of-thumb for the size of printed books use the number of
manuscript pages to start from, and anything that changes the number of
manuscript pages will throw those off. Even though they could adjust in
the mathematics, that doesn't adjust the mental sense of "how big" a
half-inch-thick manuscript is.
This is, of course, for the science fiction and fantasy publishing
world, which may be completely different from whatever publishing world
you're referring to, and house a completely different subspecies of
editors.
And, I suppose, you weren't saying that the editors _didn't_ prefer
double-spaced text, merely that they didn't actually use the space
between lines for comments. So I'm not really directly disagreeing with
you....
- Brooks
Rowland McDonnell
> In article <91025$3ecf6ea9$d0c7e1fd$17...@nf1.news-service.com>,
> Robert Heller wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking that whoever *receives* the opinions might want to scribble
> > comments.
>
> If the opinion has been issued in final form, it is highly unlikely
> that it would be scribbled on.
I've seen a final legal opinion which had been written on by the
recipient - brief notes highlighting points of particular interest. Is
this unusual or usual? I have no idea.
> > It *might* be some silly hold-over from days past.
>
> With all due respect to the members of my guild, I think you give them
> too much credit. I doubt that obeisance to the past explains the
> matter.
Think of it in terms of conservatism: we do it this way because we've
always done it this way, so it's got to be the best way to do it.
> In general, lawyers seem quite careless about the appearance
> of their letters and other documents. They are quite concerned with
> content, but they make few concessions to their readers otherwise. I
> wonder at this behaviour because the lawyer's only tangible product,
> generally, is the written word.
[snip]
True, but part of the job of being a a lawyer is to keep the law
mysterious in order to justify their ludicrous fees.
Rowland.
(who's not at all cynical about anything, oh dearie me no)
--
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