Model III Level I BASIC
asc135
found) on this newsgroup related to the recent discovery of the Model
III Level I BASIC ROM Image. Does anyone know if David Cooper will be
making it available to the community?
By the way, as someone who has been searching for over a dozen years
now, my congratulations to all those involved in its ultimate
apprehension.
Amardeep
N Morrison
IIRC, a source was posted on the Yahoo group TRS-80
John Benson
have purchased a Model III, Level I machine and have made an image of it's
ROM.
Before I continue, please allow me to thank John Benson of Australia for
locating this machine. He notified me of the machine for sale so that I
could purchase it. Without his locating the machine, I would never have been
able to obtain the machine and image the ROM.
Now, onto the goodies...I' d like some experts to take a look at it. It does
run in David Keil's Model III/4 emulator, BTW. The download below is large
because it contains notes and photos as well as the ROM image itself. It
appears that the ROM is a 4K ROM, even though it's plugged into the ROM A
socket on the Model III motherboard (which supports 8K ROMs). I say this
because when I read the ROM, the A12 line *appeared* to be ignored. This
makes sense because Model I, Level I ROM was only 4K. But, it'd be nice to
see a datasheet on this ROM. I couldn't find one anywhere. The chip number
is SCM91616P, which is a Motorola ROM. There's a closeup of the ROM in the
download.
So, does anyone have a datasheet for the SCM91616P? Does it look like I have
a complete ROM image? I did some fiddling around and it seemed to completely
work in the emulator. The actual machine doesn't work, so until I repair it,
I can't fire up the actual Model III.
http://download. marmotking. com/model3_ level1.zip
Enjoy.
marmotking
"N Morrison" <Anoth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75c61708-92f9-4074...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Tom Lake
> have a complete ROM image? I did some fiddling around and it seemed to
> completely work in the emulator. The actual machine doesn't work, so until
> I repair it, I can't fire up the actual Model III.
>
> http://download. marmotking. com/model3_ level1.zip
That link doesn't seem to work for me.
Tom Lake
John Benson
SCM91616P is a masking number rather than an actual motorola ic number.
http://download.marmotking.com/model3_level1.zip
John Benson
"Tom Lake" <tl...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gvb4op$dl$1...@news.albasani.net...
asc135
Thanks! That's what I was hoping to find.
tur...@gmail.com
> Well, folks, the Model III, Level I ROM is no longer an extinct species! I
> have purchased a Model III, Level I machine and have made an image of it's
> ROM.
>
> Before I continue, please allow me to thank John Benson of Australia for
> locating this machine. He notified me of the machine for sale so that I
> could purchase it. Without his locating the machine, I would never have been
> able to obtain the machine and image the ROM.
>
> Now, onto the goodies...I' d like some experts to take a look at it. It does
> run in David Keil's Model III/4 emulator, BTW. The download below is large
> because it contains notes and photos as well as the ROM image itself. It
> appears that the ROM is a 4K ROM, even though it's plugged into the ROM A
> socket on the Model III motherboard (which supports 8K ROMs). I say this
> because when I read the ROM, the A12 line *appeared* to be ignored. This
> makes sense because Model I, Level I ROM was only 4K. But, it'd be nice to
> see a datasheet on this ROM. I couldn't find one anywhere. The chip number
> download.
>
> So, does anyone have a datasheet for theSCM91616P? Does it look like I have
> a complete ROM image? I did some fiddling around and it seemed to completely
> work in the emulator. The actual machine doesn't work, so until I repair it,
> I can't fire up the actual Model III.
>
> http://download. marmotking. com/model3_ level1.zip
>
> Enjoy.
>
> marmotking
>
>
> news:75c61708-92f9-4074...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 23, 12:31 pm, asc135 <asc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm curious why there hasn't been any mention (at least, that I've
> > found) on this newsgroup related to the recent discovery of the Model
> > III Level I BASIC ROM Image. Does anyone know if David Cooper will be
> > making it available to the community?
>
> > By the way, as someone who has been searching for over a dozen years
> > now, my congratulations to all those involved in its ultimate
> > apprehension.
>
> > Amardeep
>
> IIRC, a source was posted on the Yahoo group TRS-80
Do a search in this usenet group for 'SCM91616P'...
Am I the only one annoyed (by myself) that apparently Jay Miller
claimed he had this ROM in way back in 2005 yet never got the help or
follow-up to see if he actually had dumped them?
Thanks deservedly go to John Bensen for his persistence! I feel
somewhat stupid for have kept asking on this board for so long when
Miller had claimed to have the ROMs but I never bothered to followup
with him. Methinks sometimes the attention span is not persistent as
it should be for my own sake.
Thanks John!
* It still would be interesting to see if Miller's ROMs match... he
very likely might have stalled not have Bensen's smarts at the dumping
process.
Knut
We tried... I think it ended up with him not replying.
Really happy we finally got the model III level I ROM. Odd beast definitely.
Knut
Michael Black
> Level 1 is useless.
>
So? The Model III is pretty useless at this point too.
Surely it was the chase, and to be complete, that caused
the desire for it.
Michael
tur...@gmail.com
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Barry OGrady wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 May 2009 12:31:23 -0700 (PDT), asc135 <asc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm curious why there hasn't been any mention (at least, that I've
> >> found) on this newsgroup related to the recent discovery of the Model
> >> making it available to the community?
>
> >> By the way, as someone who has been searching for over a dozen years
> >> now, my congratulations to all those involved in its ultimate
> >> apprehension.
>
> > Level 1 is useless.
>
> So? The Model III is pretty useless at this point too.
>
> Surely it was the chase, and to be complete, that caused
> the desire for it.
>
> Michael
tell me he's trolling. PLEEEEASE tell me he's trolling. He can't be
serious!
The only proper response to "Level 1 is useless" is... (wait for
it...)
WHAT?
hahaha (ok, SORRY... HOW? could he even suggest it is useless!??!)
Bob Campbell
news:1h2q259hrgt47ftj8...@4ax.com...
> Level 1 is unusable. Please make a level 3 emulator.
WTF is Level 3?
People have been looking for Model 3 Level 1 BASIC for years. Just to have
it. Yes it is just as useless as Model 1 Level 1, but it is still nice to
have, just to relive the old days. Many of us started with Level 1 BASIC.
N Morrison
> WTF is Level 3?
>
> People have been looking for Model 3 Level 1 BASIC for years. Just to have
> it. Yes it is just as useless as Model 1 Level 1, but it is still nice to
> have, just to relive the old days. Many of us started with Level 1 BASIC.
Level III was a tape which loaded parts from Disk Basic into memory
and hooked them into the Level II interpreter. Microsoft resold it
themselves although it was originally branded G2 IIRC. The 12K ROM
Basic in the TRS-80 was a cut down version of the 16K 8080
interpreter.
I did some of my college work with Level I. Mind you, that was back
around 1970 and I was the only person at the college who owned his own
computer. Even the college only had two mainframes and one PDP-10.
N.
Quote: "December 1, 1979 - Level III BASIC, the most powerful BASIC
written for the TRS-80, has been introduced by Microsoft Consumer
Products" (originally sold by G2 computer software stores?)
Tom Lake
> tell me he's trolling. PLEEEEASE tell me he's trolling. He can't be
> serious!
>
> The only proper response to "Level 1 is useless" is... (wait for
> it...)
>
> WHAT?
>
> hahaha (ok, SORRY... HOW? could he even suggest it is useless!??!)
LOL! Your post made me remember the "good ol' days" when all we had was A$
and B$
I almost busted my G$
Tom Lake
Amardeep S Chana
>
> I did some of my college work with Level I. Mind you, that was back
> around 1970 and I was the only person at the college who owned his own
> computer. Even the college only had two mainframes and one PDP-10.
I'm guessing that 1970 was a typing error. Did you mean 1977?
Amardeep
Bill H
Wasnt the M1L1 basic Tiny Basic or am I confused?
Bill H
N Morrison
> Wasnt the M1L1 basic Tiny Basic or am I confused?
>
> Bill H
It was Dr. Li-Chen Wang's Palo Alto Tiny Basic with a few upgrades
such as floating point.
N Morrison
> I'm guessing that 1970 was a typing error. Did you mean 1977?
>
> Amardeep
Somewhere way back then. It's been too long.
Knut
I bought and used the level III basic some. Nice editing functions and some good highlevel
"graphics" functionality but it was IMHO too slow. I did make CAS files of that tape and sent them
to Ira so if there is any interest I could put them on my site.
I think I could do lines in blockgraphics faster using normal basic with POKE than L3 could. I also
used assembly with basic, much thanks to TRS-80 BASIC Decode & other mysteries, to speed up
excution. Often using BASIC only for MMI and machine code for any processing.
At first I hand-assembled and later bought EDTASM+ on cassette. After I moved on to disk I bought
Misosys EDAS. Much of what I did was for the Lowe Electronics HIRES and for my own fun. The 3D
example you find on my website is one of them.
I came into the TRS-80 scene too late for level 1 but I still think it is great that we now have
Model III level I. My old video Genie has a 64K RAM kit from General Northern and I can bankswitch
RAM to replace the ROM so I created a small CMD which loads Model-I level 1 into that RAM and
switches to it. The only letdown was that I couldn't make it to use cassette #2 which I can connect
to a PC so I don't need to create a cassette first so I only tried some programs I already had on
cassette in level 1 format (Flying Saucers and Micro Marquee). The video genie has the default
cassette inbuilt...
Knut
Bob Campbell
news:MsSdne9P25T...@telenor.com...
> I came into the TRS-80 scene too late for level 1 but I still think it is
> great that we now have Model III level I. My old video Genie has a 64K RAM
> kit from General Northern and I can bankswitch RAM to replace the ROM so I
> created a small CMD which loads Model-I level 1 into that RAM and switches
> to it. The only letdown was that I couldn't make it to use cassette #2
> which I can connect to a PC so I don't need to create a cassette first so
> I only tried some programs I already had on cassette in level 1 format
> (Flying Saucers and Micro Marquee). The video genie has the default
> cassette inbuilt...
Yeah I remember the "Level 3" cassette BASIC, but I never saw it or used it.
NewDOS 80 also had a Level 1 in RAM program that runs under the current
emulators if you boot NewDOS.
Ah, memories.............
tur...@gmail.com
I've heard M1L1 basic was based on Palo Alto's Tiny Basic.
Despite the "WHAT/HOW/SORRY" silly response earlier, I'll say that one
important reason to have found M3L1 basic is that the copyright for
this is much more prone to be "open" because of the basis of it's
source. Before we get into "Legal Wars" I'm not saying that it is
free code, but that there is a greater chance it might be. With
Frank Durda stating the R.S.'s claimed that with their third Model III
ROM they were free of Microsoft's copyright obligations, it seems that
this M3L1 and the last M3L2 rom would be better candidates to
distribute with emulators to avoid MS legal entanglements. Of course
none of this is legal advice, etc. etc.
p.s. I must always mention this since Li-Chen Want seems like such a
cool dude (he responded by email a few years back and seems very
friendly) -- he also is the author of the Exatron Stringy Floppy ROM
code for the Model 1 and apparently it has some very clever
engineering in it. Also even maybe before Stallman Li-Chen Wang
coined the term "copyleft - all wrongs reversed" (or is it "all wrongs
reserved" -?)
tur...@gmail.com
> "Knut" <kr-l...@nogarbage.online.no> wrote in message
How do you get the NEWDOS80 Level 1 started -?
tur...@gmail.com
but it was actually possible with some creativity to play some games
with it.
Even though they was no PEEK or INKEY$ (if I remember correctly) it
had an odd feature that could be used for video-game type input.
The CLEAR key would clear the screen regardless of the running state
of your Level 1 program.
If I remember correctly I think there was a way to set a pixel and
then check to see if it was set (is that correct?) so that if you set
a dot and checked to see if it was still set you could effectively use
the CLEAR key as a trigger input.
Pretty slow drawing stuff but I remember in Jr. High School trying to
make a tank game on a Level 1 machine, going back to Level 1
purposefully to see if I could do it... not sure I got it to work
though!
tur...@gmail.com
Ah - my memory must be fuzzed.
There is actually no way to check if a pixel is on or off is there?
Just SET(x,y) and RESET(x,y) -?!!?
tur...@gmail.com
FYI Level 1+ Simulator from Jeff Vavasour
-- http://www.vavasour.ca/jeff/level1/help.html#language -
Amardeep S Chana
>
> I bought and used the level III basic some. Nice editing functions and
> some good highlevel "graphics" functionality but it was IMHO too slow. I
> did make CAS files of that tape and sent them to Ira so if there is any
> interest I could put them on my site.
Please do make that tape image available, if you don't mind. I remember
seeing the ads in the old days and it would be fun to play with it.
Thanks,
Amardeep
Bob Campbell
news:c1bcb658-b55f-4cf2...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> Yeah I remember the "Level 3" cassette BASIC, but I never saw it or used
>> it.
>> NewDOS 80 also had a Level 1 in RAM program that runs under the current
>> emulators if you boot NewDOS.
>>
>> Ah, memories.............
>How do you get the NEWDOS80 Level 1 started -?
The same way you start any other program, enter the program name. In this
case, "Level1". Up comes Level 1 BASIC.