New Google Maps coming

[Alan Browne]

https://maps.google.com/

Look on the left - there's a "Get the new Google Maps" splash.

Unfortunately it is still in beta/limited invite mode (I'm wait listed).

Hit the 'find out how' and inside there's a "request an invite" button.
(You need a Google account (e-mail) to set the invite).

The video is worth a gander.

--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-18 10:07:34 -0700, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:

>
> https://maps.google.com/
>
> Look on the left - there's a "Get the new Google Maps" splash.
>
> Unfortunately it is still in beta/limited invite mode (I'm wait listed).
>
> Hit the 'find out how' and inside there's a "request an invite" button.
> (You need a Google account (e-mail) to set the invite).
>
> The video is worth a gander.

Very pretty. However, after discounting some of the useful features it
seems to be just a more refined personal data mining tool to target the
user to paying business clients and their business establishments.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Alan Browne]

Google doesn't charge anyone to list their establishment on a map. You
can do that through Google+, through Map Maker and probably other means.
From there of course, businesses can pay Google for higher placement
on search results.

[Davoud]

Savageduck:

> Very pretty. However, after discounting some of the useful features it
> seems to be just a more refined personal data mining tool to target the
> user to paying business clients and their business establishments.

I never thought that Google was a charity. Did you think that?

You separate the linking of users to paying business clients from the
useful features that Google Maps (GM) offers. I conflate the two. About
90% of the time when I use GM I am looking for a business, and much of
the time that business is a restaurant. I look forward to the day when
the ad targeting is sufficiently sophisticated that I don't see
fast-food or pizza joints, but only better-quality restaurants.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Patty Winter]

In article <180520131941151035%st...@sky.net>, Davoud <a...@bbb.ccc> wrote:
>Savageduck:
>> Very pretty. However, after discounting some of the useful features it
>> seems to be just a more refined personal data mining tool to target the
>> user to paying business clients and their business establishments.
>
>I never thought that Google was a charity. Did you think that?

They can't be a charity. They had to pay for all those multicolored
bikes my friends and I saw while we were geocaching around the
Googleplex today. :-)


Patty

[JF Mezei]

On 13-05-18 13:07, Alan Browne wrote:
>
> https://maps.google.com/

Duringthe Google keynote, it was confirmed that the maps improvements
are coming to their IOS application too.

[Alan Browne]

The cross posting didn't clue you in I guess.

Or didn't you read the bottom of the cited page:

On Android: Directions Everywhere Imagery Everywhere Search
Everywhere Customize and Share

On iPhone: Directions Everywhere Imagery Everywhere Search
Everywhere Customize and Share

Safe bet that what's available on iPhone will be on iPad as well - if
perhaps not optimized.

[Fred Moore]

In article <180520131941151035%st...@sky.net>, Davoud <st...@sky.net>
wrote:

> Savageduck:
> > Very pretty. However, after discounting some of the useful features it
> > seems to be just a more refined personal data mining tool to target the
> > user to paying business clients and their business establishments.
>
> I never thought that Google was a charity. Did you think that?
>
> You separate the linking of users to paying business clients from the
> useful features that Google Maps (GM) offers. I conflate the two. About
> 90% of the time when I use GM I am looking for a business, and much of
> the time that business is a restaurant. I look forward to the day when
> the ad targeting is sufficiently sophisticated that I don't see
> fast-food or pizza joints, but only better-quality restaurants.

As I posted to yesterday's Macintouch Security forum:
<http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/security/index.html#d18may2013>

Google's intrusion in your private life just got even deeper, but most
people don't seem to care. Can Apple be far behind?

Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
ition-in-map-services.html>
"When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
*all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]

So much for "Don't be evil". The only Google service I use is search,
and that via StartPage <https://startpage.com/eng/> At least it's some
defense.

--
The problem with Crapitalism is there is an infinite supply
of vicious, greedy bastards demanding everything for themselves
and happy to let everyone else pay the price.

[nospam]

In article <fmoore-607ACE....@mx05.eternal-september.org>,

Fred Moore <fmo...@gcfn.org> wrote:

> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
> ition-in-map-services.html>
> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]

if you don't want that, don't log in.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.19 12:05 , Fred Moore wrote:

> So much for "Don't be evil". The only Google service I use is search,
> and that via StartPage <https://startpage.com/eng/> At least it's some
> defense.

You have to prove what they do with the data is "evil".

eg: Are they using it to compile reports about you to the government?

If you're really that paranoid, set up a fake gmail account with
completely fictitious data and use a VPN to access all Google web pages
from a different locale.

And get a pre-paid smartphone if you access Google features while mobile.

etc.

But really, Google's motive is to make money using "big data". In
exchange for your data (whether real or anonymous - they don't care)
they give you all sorts of services in return.

And if you believe that Apple's motivation in supplying iOS maps is any
different or somehow more noble I'd like to hear the details.

[Davoud]

Fred Moore:

> As I posted to yesterday's Macintouch Security forum:
> <http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/security/index.html#d18may2013>
>
> Google's intrusion in your private life just got even deeper, but most
> people don't seem to care. Can Apple be far behind?

As little as Apple talks about what they are doing, they could be in
the lead. But I'm being facetious; Apple couldn't really be in the lead
because it's maps we're talking about here, and Apple is still losing
the struggle with maps. I have sent four corrections telling them that
the shopping center in Odenton, Maryland, is not the Odenton Medical
Center (it does not have even one medical office), but to no avail. I'm
not going to continue to bang my head against a wall over Apple's
incompetence in that area. This is not the only sign that Apple is a
company in decline.

> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
> ition-in-map-services.html>
> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]

So long as we are ruled by the corporate state, this will be our lot.
And that looks like being forever. It seems likely that, since Google
services require log-ins, they know exactly whose e-mail and location
data they are using, and that they have a stored record with full
identifying data, waiting to be stolen by a crime syndicate.

> So much for "Don't be evil"...

I laughed derisively the first time I saw that, how many years ago!?

[JF Mezei]

Wild idea here:

what if Apple intends to drop its own map product because it has
realised how difficult/expensive it would be to get it right ?

Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web or as an
app for OS-X.

Stories that suggested corrections not being made.

No talk about Apple making great strides in improving its mapping product.

Ever since Google made its own Maps app available on IOS, has there
really been a need for Apple to improve its own maps app ? Does anyone
still use it or is everyone using Google's ?

Perhaps we might get some insight at WWDC in a few weeks.

[nospam]

In article <51998f24$0$38216$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> what if Apple intends to drop its own map product because it has
> realised how difficult/expensive it would be to get it right ?

they definitely will not.

> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web or as an
> app for OS-X.

apple maps on os x has been rumoured.

> Stories that suggested corrections not being made.

many of them.

> No talk about Apple making great strides in improving its mapping product.

presumably at wwdc, they'll brag about how much better it is.

> Ever since Google made its own Maps app available on IOS, has there
> really been a need for Apple to improve its own maps app ? Does anyone
> still use it or is everyone using Google's ?

it's a mix of both. since you can't change the default app, map links
open apple's map. google provides a handler to open theirs but an app
has to support it. some do. not all.

> Perhaps we might get some insight at WWDC in a few weeks.

no perhaps. that's the place.

[Rod Speed]

Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote
> Fred Moore wrote

>> As I posted to yesterday's Macintouch Security forum:
>> <http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/security/index.html#d18may2013>

>> Google's intrusion in your private life just got even deeper,
>> but most people don't seem to care. Can Apple be far behind?

> As little as Apple talks about what they are doing, they could be in
> the lead. But I'm being facetious; Apple couldn't really be in the lead
> because it's maps we're talking about here, and Apple is still losing
> the struggle with maps. I have sent four corrections telling them that
> the shopping center in Odenton, Maryland, is not the Odenton Medical
> Center (it does not have even one medical office), but to no avail. I'm
> not going to continue to bang my head against a wall over Apple's
> incompetence in that area. This is not the only sign that Apple is a
> company in decline.

I bet they aren't on that last, except in the sense that they may
not be putting quite as much emphasis on the amount of effort
being put into getting it right before the general public sees it
with Jobs now dead.

That's not in decline, that's more a change of emphasis.

>> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-competition-in-map-services.html>
>> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
>> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
>> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
>> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
>> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]

> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,

We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.

> this will be our lot.

Nope, we will always see stuff that doesn't do it like that available.

> And that looks like being forever.

Nope, most obviously with Linux.

> It seems likely that, since Google services require log-ins,
> they know exactly whose e-mail and location data they
> are using, and that they have a stored record with full
> identifying data, waiting to be stolen by a crime syndicate.

Bet they aren't that stupid, if only because of how spectacularly
the shit would hit the fan if that ever happens.

>> So much for "Don't be evil"...

> I laughed derisively the first time I saw that, how many years ago!?

That says a hell of a lot more about you than anything else.

[Rod Speed]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote

> Wild idea here:

Yeah, very wild.

> what if Apple intends to drop its own map product because it
> has realised how difficult/expensive it would be to get it right ?

I doubt that they wouldn't have thought about that before they did it.

> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps
> available on the web or as an app for OS-X.

> Stories that suggested corrections not being made.

And we will see how true that ends up being.

> No talk about Apple making great strides
> in improving its mapping product.

Hardly surprising given the errors seen when they did release it.

> Ever since Google made its own Maps app available on IOS, has
> there really been a need for Apple to improve its own maps app ?

Presumably they must have thought so, otherwise they would
not have bothered to have their own in the first place.

> Does anyone still use it

Yes, I do, along with google's.

The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
are outside wifi range.

Nokia's Drive does that, those two don't.

I also don't like the lack of full multi waypoint
routing like you get with any decent GPS.

I do like the fact that it tell you which side
of the street your destination is on. The
standalone tomtoms don't.

I should really have a proper look at all the
alternatives before buying one of them for
the iphone. The price is high enough so
that it isnt really viable to just buy them all.

> or is everyone using Google's ?

I haven't found any problems with Apple's
except that one short street is completely
missing in a small village in the wilds of
rural Australia. It is in google's.

> Perhaps we might get some insight at WWDC in a few weeks.

Yeah, going to be interesting to watch how it
all pans out with Ive now driving the bus etc.

[Sandman]

In article <fmoore-607ACE....@mx05.eternal-september.org>,
Fred Moore <fmo...@gcfn.org> wrote:

> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
> ition-in-map-services.html>
> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]

I've never understood how this is evil? I mean, you have already given
Google freedom to see 100% of your email when you signed up for Gmail.
They are hosting it for you, they have all the data. When you read your
email you are doing so via a Google service. So you access
gmail.google.com and it accesses your emails. Or you access
maps.google.com and it accesses your email - what is the difference? All
your email are belong to them. If you do not want Google to be able to
see your emails, using gmail was a bad move from day one.

To repeat, it is a three-way relation: You, Google, Your mail database.

Whether that relationship is used in gmail or maps makes no difference.

You would have a point if this was something that happened *against your
will*, but it isn't. It was your explicit "will" that Google has 100%
access to all your emails.

--
Sandman[.net]

[nospam]

In article <avtuic...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
> are outside wifi range.

yes you can, for a reasonable size area.

[Warren Oates]

In article <slrnkpj3rd....@mbp55.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <190520132145518106%st...@sky.net>
> Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
> > Google services require log-ins
>
> No they do not. I have never had to login to use google maps or google
> search or google news or google earth or google images or google
> shopping or most any google service.

We registered our home business with Google years ago. We have to log in
to change our profile, but it was and is free. Like YouTube or Gmail
etc., you have to log in because the stuff is private (more or less). We
actually get paper mail from Google trying to sell us "advanced"
services. And phone calls. And email.
--
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
-- notes for Blade Runner

[Erilar]

I do that often. You just have to remember not to change anything except
size off line.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

[Erilar]

One of the advantages of still using an original iPad is that I've never
been subjected to Apple's maps 8-)

[nospam]

In article <knd80h$67i$2...@dont-email.me>, Erilar

<dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> >> Ever since Google made its own Maps app available on IOS, has there
> >> really been a need for Apple to improve its own maps app ? Does anyone
> >> still use it or is everyone using Google's ?
> >
> > it's a mix of both. since you can't change the default app, map links
> > open apple's map. google provides a handler to open theirs but an app
> > has to support it. some do. not all.
>
> One of the advantages of still using an original iPad is that I've never
> been subjected to Apple's maps 8-)

you're only subjected to them if you choose to upgrade to ios 6.

the original ipad can't upgrade to 6, bt for later ipads, you just
don't do the upgrade when offered.

[Chris Blunt]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 19:44:25 -0700, Michelle Steiner
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

>I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as "Crestview
>Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This error on google
>maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list Cooper Commons; the
>two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun River taking up the
>southeast quarter. They have the adjacent subdivisions labeled correctly.
>
>This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.

Did you use Google Map Maker to do this? I've done a lot of work for
Google in helping to draw and label their maps using Map Maker, and
large sections of Google Maps now contain contributions that I have
made. Google's reviewers seem to respond to any amendments and
additions that I make within a matter of a few days.

Chris

[Chris Blunt]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:45:51 -0400, Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:

>As little as Apple talks about what they are doing, they could be in
>the lead. But I'm being facetious; Apple couldn't really be in the lead
>because it's maps we're talking about here, and Apple is still losing
>the struggle with maps. I have sent four corrections telling them that
>the shopping center in Odenton, Maryland, is not the Odenton Medical
>Center (it does not have even one medical office), but to no avail. I'm
>not going to continue to bang my head against a wall over Apple's
>incompetence in that area

There was a long discussion about this a few months ago, and several
people here claimed that the Maps application would improve very
quickly as corrections were made. I submitted several amendments for
the map in the immediate area surrounding my home and not a single one
of those has been implemented so far.

Chris

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.19 22:44 , Michelle Steiner wrote:

> In article <190520132145518106%st...@sky.net>, Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
>
>> I have sent four corrections telling them that the shopping center in
>> Odenton, Maryland, is not the Odenton Medical Center (it does not have
>> even one medical office), but to no avail. I'm not going to continue to
>> bang my head against a wall over Apple's incompetence in that area.
>

> I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as "Crestview
> Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This error on google
> maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list Cooper Commons; the
> two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun River taking up the
> southeast quarter. They have the adjacent subdivisions labeled correctly.

I send in Google map correction from time to time (actually yesterday -
but it had been many months).

I also use Google Map Maker to edit and add to Google maps. (Trails mostly).

I'm also an "auditor" for Google Maps - I judge other people's edits and
recommend changes or accept/reject the changes they've made.

(Anyone can do the above, but it takes a bit of work on the input side
before your edits are accepted automatically (you have to build cred)).

> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.

You funny. Google's map efforts have been great. Not perfect - just
great. For the price - unbeatable.

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Pay someone else for email as good as gmail (good
> luck on that one).

Decent paid email service is not all that difficult
to locate. Paying for it establishes a relationship
in which, usually, some responsibility exists, too.

Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.19 22:49 , JF Mezei wrote:
> Wild idea here:
>
> what if Apple intends to drop its own map product because it has
> realised how difficult/expensive it would be to get it right ?
>
> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web or as an
> app for OS-X.

I do find it ironic that services like Find-my-iPhone use Google Maps.

But I believe Cook when he says Apple is committed to maps. And of
course there is a solid business reason to do so.

In the unlikely case that Apple drop their own map, I'd even go so far
as to bet they'd jump into bed with Microsoft before they'd crawl back
to Google. (Bing maps are quite good, the aerial photos are better than
Google's (in most cases) but I dislike the oblique presentation)

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 02:48 , Sandman wrote:
> In article <fmoore-607ACE....@mx05.eternal-september.org>,
> Fred Moore <fmo...@gcfn.org> wrote:
>
>> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
>> ition-in-map-services.html>
>> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
>> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
>> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
>> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
>> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]
>
> I've never understood how this is evil? I mean, you have already given
> Google freedom to see 100% of your email when you signed up for Gmail.
> They are hosting it for you, they have all the data. When you read your
> email you are doing so via a Google service. So you access
> gmail.google.com and it accesses your emails. Or you access
> maps.google.com and it accesses your email - what is the difference? All
> your email are belong to them. If you do not want Google to be able to
> see your emails, using gmail was a bad move from day one.
>
> To repeat, it is a three-way relation: You, Google, Your mail database.

Not at all. Anyone can use Google Maps without an account of any kind.
This includes using the mobile version.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 12:27 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,

> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>> I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as
>>> "Crestview Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This
>>> error on google maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list
>>> Cooper Commons; the two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun
>>> River taking up the southeast quarter. They have the adjacent
>>> subdivisions labeled correctly.
>>>
>>> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>
>> Did you use Google Map Maker to do this?
>

> I submitted the information directly to Google, using their contact link.
> I informed them of the error. It's not up to me to make the corrections
> myself; I'm not in their employ.
>
> BTW, when was Google Map Maker made available to the public, and how does
> one access it?

Google for it.

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote,

quoting Davoud <st...@sky.net>:

> > So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,
>
> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.

Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -

http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/05/IDC_1Q2013_smartphones.png

As I've noted elsewhere, no wonder Steve Jobs was so pissed with Google.

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> You would have a point if this was something that happened *against your
> will*, but it isn't. It was your explicit "will" that Google has 100%
> access to all your emails.

Any third-party email vendor has 100% access to data stored by them.
If that bothers anyone, they should encrypt their mail.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.19 21:45 , Davoud wrote:

> And that looks like being forever. It seems likely that, since Google
> services require log-ins,

Google Search
Maps
Images
News
Translate
Books (search and read scanned works)
Scholar (search academic papers)
Finance (stock data, news, history, analysis, etc.)
YouTube
Panoramio (to view)

and others don't require a log in. Most of them do have more features
or capabilities when you are logged in.

Some services (mail), by their nature, of course require an account.

Google Earth (app), Picassa (App), Chrome (app) and others are free to
DL as well and do not require an account.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 12:46 , bi...@MIX.COM wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.system Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote,
> quoting Davoud <st...@sky.net>:
>
>>> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,
>>
>> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.
>
> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -
>
> http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/05/IDC_1Q2013_smartphones.png
>
> As I've noted elsewhere, no wonder Steve Jobs was so pissed with Google.

How's that "I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this" working for him?

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 12:43 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <s4ydnW94aZzg0gfM...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>
>> You funny.
>

> I was being sarcastic;

We've gone over how that doesn't carry well on usenet...

[JF Mezei]

On 13-05-20 12:46, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:

> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -

Actually, Android is not Linux. Apps on Android are JAVA based and run
not on Linux, but inside a JVM walled garden. Just like apps on IOS are
not Unix apps, they run over the app framework provided by Apple.

During the Google I/O keynote, Page confirmed that Google has had legal
problems with Oracle due to Oracle's business practices with its Java.

So while one can "escape" the walled gardens on both platforms (on IOS
with jailbreaking), the normal developper does not really see the Unix
underpinnings that support the application run time.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 13:03 , JF Mezei wrote:
> On 13-05-20 12:46, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:
>
>> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -
>
> Actually, Android is not Linux.

Actually it is.

[Tom Stiller]

In article <michelle-F78E09...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,

> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > >I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as
> > >"Crestview Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This
> > >error on google maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list
> > >Cooper Commons; the two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun
> > >River taking up the southeast quarter. They have the adjacent
> > >subdivisions labeled correctly.
> > >
> > >This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
> >
> > Did you use Google Map Maker to do this?
>

> I submitted the information directly to Google, using their contact link.
> I informed them of the error. It's not up to me to make the corrections
> myself; I'm not in their employ.
>
> BTW, when was Google Map Maker made available to the public, and how does
> one access it?

Click at the bottom left of a displayed map (Mac Safari).

--
PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf
of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. -- Ambrose Bierce

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 13:13 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <6aydnROPD9SsygfM...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>>>
>>>> You funny.
>>>
>>> I was being sarcastic;
>>
>> We've gone over how that doesn't carry well on usenet...
>

> In context, with the quote of Davoud's message included, it should have
> been obvious.

Looked more like one of your constant barbs at Google wherever they may
be the slightest threat to Apple.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.20 14:08 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <7radnd9focsqxwfM...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was being sarcastic;
>>>>
>>>> We've gone over how that doesn't carry well on usenet...
>>>
>>> In context, with the quote of Davoud's message included, it should
>>> have been obvious.
>>
>> Looked more like one of your constant barbs at Google wherever they may
>> be the slightest threat to Apple.
>

> You must have me confused with someone else; I do not sling "constant
> barbs" at Google. I rarely sling any barbs at them.

Right.

[Warren Oates]

In article <michelle-5B440D...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> Bottom right on my system.
>
> I tried submitting the change from Crestview Chateau to Sun River; we'll
> see how long it takes to appear. Curiously, though, although Cooper
> Commons was not displayed before today, it's now displayed.

We had a problem where the streets in our area didn't match up to the
satellite view. So if you put your marker on your street corner in map
view, and then switched to satellite, your marker would be a
block-and-a-half away on the other side of the street. Okay, it wasn't
that bad, but it _was_ way off. The oul' Woman wrote them a bunch of
times and they eventually fixed it.
--
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
-- notes for Blade Runner

[Warren Oates]

In article <kndj79$ltb$1...@reader1.panix.com>, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:

> In comp.sys.mac.system Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> > Pay someone else for email as good as gmail (good
> > luck on that one).
>
> Decent paid email service is not all that difficult
> to locate. Paying for it establishes a relationship
> in which, usually, some responsibility exists, too.
>
> Billy Y..

That's an interesting point. I religiously back up my Gmail accounts
(with IMAP) because, while I'm grateful for Google's generosity, I don't
particularly trust them. There's no guarantee that they won't just
discontinue the service on a moment's notice.

[Warren Oates]

In article <kndkjr$jdd$2...@reader1.panix.com>, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:

> In comp.sys.mac.system Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
>
> > You would have a point if this was something that happened *against your
> > will*, but it isn't. It was your explicit "will" that Google has 100%
> > access to all your emails.
>
> Any third-party email vendor has 100% access to data stored by them.
> If that bothers anyone, they should encrypt their mail.
>
> Billy Y..

Exactly. My ISP is Sympatico. I don't use their mail service a tall. I
seriously distrust them. Probably without real reason -- they've got
thousands of customers. It's paranoid principle, I guess.

[JF Mezei]

On 13-05-20 14:38, Warren Oates wrote:

> Exactly. My ISP is Sympatico. I don't use their mail service a tall

Sympatico hasn't provided an email service for a long long time. They
point their customers to Hotmail (I guess now Outlook.com ). And when
you end your Bell internet subscription, you cannot keep your hotmail
account because it is destroyed along with your internet connection.

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca>
wrote, quoting me:

> > http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/05/IDC_1Q2013_smartphones.png
> >
> > As I've noted elsewhere, no wonder Steve Jobs was so pissed with Google.
>
> How's that "I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this" working for him?

Well, he took a pretty bad posthumous hit on the change in maps apps, heh.

[Jim Gibson]

In article <michelle-566E79...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <6aydnROPD9SsygfM...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> > >>> This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
> > >>
> > >> You funny.
> > >
> > > I was being sarcastic;
> >
> > We've gone over how that doesn't carry well on usenet...
>

> In context, with the quote of Davoud's message included, it should have
> been obvious.

It was.

--
Jim Gibson

[nospam]

In article <kndk1u$jdd$1...@reader1.panix.com>, <bi...@MIX.COM> wrote:

> > > So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,
> >
> > We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.
>
> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -
>
> http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/05/IDC_1Q2013_smartphones.png

android's core is linux but it is counted that way, which that graph
shows.

the apps are written in java. it does not run linux apps.

[nospam]

In article <6aydnRKPD9Q-ygfM...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -
> >
> > Actually, Android is not Linux.
>
> Actually it is.

only the core is. android is a lot more than its core. linux apps won't
run. android apps are java running in its own jvm called dalvik. there
was a major lawsuit because of this.

it's tracked separately because android phones are *different* than
phones running linux.

[nospam]

In article <200520131556337400%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> android's core is linux but it is counted that way, which that graph
> shows.

not counted that way.

[D.F. Manno]

In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,
Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I've done a lot of work for
> Google in helping to draw and label their maps using Map Maker, and
> large sections of Google Maps now contain contributions that I have
> made.

Do you get paid for this? If not, why do you give free labor to a
company with $50 billion in revenue?

--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!

[Sandman]

In article <s4ydnWl4aZxwzQfM...@giganews.com>,
Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> Google Escalates the Competition in Map Services
> >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/technology/google-escalates-the-compet
> >> ition-in-map-services.html>
> >> "When users who are logged into Google visit Maps, they will see the
> >> places they frequently visit highlighted, like restaurants, museums and
> >> their home. Google learns the places they go by drawing information from
> >> *all* of Google's services " including search and Maps history, Google
> >> Plus posts and **information in users' Gmail in-boxes**." [my emphasis]
> >
> > I've never understood how this is evil? I mean, you have already given
> > Google freedom to see 100% of your email when you signed up for Gmail.
> > They are hosting it for you, they have all the data. When you read your
> > email you are doing so via a Google service. So you access
> > gmail.google.com and it accesses your emails. Or you access
> > maps.google.com and it accesses your email - what is the difference? All
> > your email are belong to them. If you do not want Google to be able to
> > see your emails, using gmail was a bad move from day one.
> >
> > To repeat, it is a three-way relation: You, Google, Your mail database.
>
> Not at all. Anyone can use Google Maps without an account of any kind.

This is not in contradiction with anything I said above.




--
Sandman[.net]

[D.F. Manno]

In article <51998f24$0$38216$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web

How would that help Apple sell machines?

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
>> are outside wifi range.

> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.

No you can't when you want to start a new route
when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
cellular data enabled to do that.

You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.

[nospam]

In article <dfmanno-2818DB...@news.albasani.net>, D.F.

Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:

> > Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web
>
> How would that help Apple sell machines?

because it makes it easier to submit corrections, so more people will
actually do that, which makes the product better, thereby attracting
more potential buyers.

[nospam]

In article <avvfno...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
> >> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
> >> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
> >> are outside wifi range.
>
> > yes you can, for a reasonable size area.
>
> No you can't when you want to start a new route
> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
> cellular data enabled to do that.

yes i can, and i have.

> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.

only within the country they cover.

if you buy the usa version and venture into canada, for instance,
you're screwed. if you buy the north america version and then go to
europe, you're screwed.

[Fred Moore]

In article <kndkjr$jdd$2...@reader1.panix.com>, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:

> In comp.sys.mac.system Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
>
> > You would have a point if this was something that happened *against your
> > will*, but it isn't. It was your explicit "will" that Google has 100%
> > access to all your emails.
>
> Any third-party email vendor has 100% access to data stored by them.

Absolutely right. And any and all servers up to and including the
recipient's has copies of everything we might email. If the recipient is
a gmail user, I can't stop Google from parsing, collating, slicing,
dicing, and selling anything I write WITHOUT my consent. THAT'S what
alarms/angers me.

Fortunately, my email ISP and most of the intervening servers are not in
the datamining business. I happen to know the owner/sysop of my email
provider personally. He has consulted with numerous heavyweights,
including the FBI, on computer security. He takes it VERY seriously. The
only time he ever looks at a client's email is when it's directly work
related. At least he'd one, of very many potential data leaks, I DON'T
have to worry about.

> If that bothers anyone, they should encrypt their mail.

Along this line, a Windows friend of mine and I have toyed with the idea
of exploring the current state of email encryption using the free
PGP/GPG Tools opensource software. We've both been dragging our feet
because we got busy at varying times. If anyone out there would be
interested in participating, let me know. The goal is to see just how
viable email encryption, both between Macs and cross-platform, really
is, how easy it is to make it work, what are the gotchas, how could it
be made better, and how it could be made the standard for all users.

One significant, but not insurmountable, gotcha at the moment is that
the 10.8 client software is still under development (can't remember if
it's graduated from alpha to beta yet).

--
It's only paranoia if there's nobody there.
And there's *always*someone* there.

[Rod Speed]

"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-F78E09...@news.eternal-september.org...

> In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,
> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
>

>> >I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as
>> >"Crestview Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This
>> >error on google maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list
>> >Cooper Commons; the two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun
>> >River taking up the southeast quarter. They have the adjacent
>> >subdivisions labeled correctly.
>> >

>> >This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>

>> Did you use Google Map Maker to do this?
>
> I submitted the information directly to Google, using their contact link.
> I informed them of the error. It's not up to me to make the corrections
> myself; I'm not in their employ.
>
> BTW, when was Google Map Maker made available to the public, and how does
> one access it?

It shows up as a popup in maps.google

[Rod Speed]

"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message

news:michelle-D12D95...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <s4ydnW94aZzg0gfM...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> > This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>

>> You funny.
>
> I was being sarcastic; it's a direct comment on Davoud's saying that
> Apple's failure to incorporate his corrections to Apple's maps is evidence
> of Apple's decline and incompetence.
>
> I have Google Maps on my iPhone, but I rarely, if ever, use it because for
> my purposes and locations, Apple's maps have been error free, and
> integrated with all the other apps I use that link to map data.

Yeah, that last is the big advantage with it IMO.

Very convenient to just tap on the street address in a contact
and have the map show up and route to that address etc.

I do prefer the google approach of showing the individual
house block boundarys and street numbers and the street
view tho.

You should be able to specify which mapper you want
to handle the map links.

[Rod Speed]

<bi...@MIX.COM> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote

>>> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,

>> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with
>> Linux.

> Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -

That�s arguably still the corporate state with androids.

It clearly is with iOS too even given what it runs on.

> http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/05/IDC_1Q2013_smartphones.png

> As I've noted elsewhere, no wonder Steve Jobs was so pissed with Google.

He never was the most rational person around.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote

>>> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web

>> How would that help Apple sell machines?

> because it makes it easier to submit corrections,

That's very arguable indeed compared with
say an ipad at the location to do that.

> so more people will actually do that,

Ditto.

> which makes the product better, thereby
> attracting more potential buyers.

I think it makes much more sense to make it
easy to do that with an ipad or iphone instead.

[Warren Oates]

In article <519a71a4$0$12138$c3e8da3$6901...@news.astraweb.com>,

It's still Bell Mail. Our address is x...@sympatico.ca and we access it
via POP servers (and outbound smptp servers) or via the web at
Sympatico (although, yeah, it claims to be a Microsoft thing) and for
years the oul' Woman wouldn't change providers because she wanted her
email address to stay the same. We don't have a x...@hotmail.com email
address; we don't have an x...@outlook.com address.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
>>>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
>>>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
>>>> are outside wifi range.

>>> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.

>> No you can't when you want to start a new route
>> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
>> cellular data enabled to do that.

> yes i can, and i have.

Then spell out how to do that.

>> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.

> only within the country they cover.

They all cover most of the places people want to do that.

> if you buy the usa version and venture into canada, for
> instance, you're screwed. if you buy the north america
> version and then go to europe, you're screwed.

Yes, you obviously need the maps that cover where you
plan to do that, but that doesn't cost a cent with Nokia.

[Rod Speed]

Fred Moore <fmo...@gcfn.org> wrote
> bi...@MIX.COM wrote

>> Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote

>>> You would have a point if this was something that happened
>>> *against your will*, but it isn't. It was your explicit "will" that
>>> Google has 100% access to all your emails.

>> Any third-party email vendor has 100% access to data stored by them.

> Absolutely right. And any and all servers up to and including the
> recipient's has copies of everything we might email. If the recipient is
> a gmail user, I can't stop Google from parsing, collating, slicing,
> dicing, and selling anything I write WITHOUT my consent. THAT'S what
> alarms/angers me.

Nothing to stop you encrypting any email you don�t
want anyone but the recipient to be able to read.

> Fortunately, my email ISP and most of the intervening servers are not
> in the datamining business. I happen to know the owner/sysop of my
> email provider personally. He has consulted with numerous heavyweights,
> including the FBI, on computer security. He takes it VERY seriously. The
> only time he ever looks at a client's email is when it's directly work
> related.

But its impossible to be sure that what he says is accurate.

> At least he'd one, of very many potential
> data leaks, I DON'T have to worry about.

You do actually.

>> If that bothers anyone, they should encrypt their mail.

> Along this line, a Windows friend of mine and I have toyed with the
> idea of exploring the current state of email encryption using the free
> PGP/GPG Tools opensource software. We've both been dragging our
> feet because we got busy at varying times. If anyone out there would
> be interested in participating, let me know. The goal is to see just how
> viable email encryption, both between Macs and cross-platform, really
> is, how easy it is to make it work, what are the gotchas, how could it
> be made better, and how it could be made the standard for all users.

Its all been done already. Its very easy.

[D.F. Manno]

In article <200520131640124544%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

IOW, it won't.

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com>
wrote, quoting Davoud <st...@sky.net>, himself, and me:

> >>> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,
>
> >> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with
> >> Linux.
>
> > Check out the numbers of phones sold (hint: Android = Linux) -
>

> That's arguably still the corporate state with androids.

Yes, if one wants to argue, context matters.

> It clearly is with iOS too even given what it runs on.

[Erilar]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <knd80h$67i$2...@dont-email.me>, Erilar
> <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Ever since Google made its own Maps app available on IOS, has there
>>>> really been a need for Apple to improve its own maps app ? Does anyone
>>>> still use it or is everyone using Google's ?
>>>
>>> it's a mix of both. since you can't change the default app, map links
>>> open apple's map. google provides a handler to open theirs but an app
>>> has to support it. some do. not all.
>>
>> One of the advantages of still using an original iPad is that I've never
>> been subjected to Apple's maps 8-)
>
> you're only subjected to them if you choose to upgrade to ios 6.
>
> the original ipad can't upgrade to 6, bt for later ipads, you just
> don't do the upgrade when offered.

With a neolithic iPad, I don't have to choose 8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

[nospam]

In article <avvkr8...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
> >>>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
> >>>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
> >>>> are outside wifi range.
>
> >>> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.
>
> >> No you can't when you want to start a new route
> >> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
> >> cellular data enabled to do that.
>
> > yes i can, and i have.
>
> Then spell out how to do that.

load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.

> >> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.
>
> > only within the country they cover.
>
> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.

except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps. that
gets expensive.

[nospam]

In article <avvkl1...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web
>
> >> How would that help Apple sell machines?
>
> > because it makes it easier to submit corrections,
>
> That's very arguable indeed compared with
> say an ipad at the location to do that.

if it's on the mac (or pc), there's no need to go anywhere to submit
corrections.

someone could confirm a lot of roads from their couch.

> > so more people will actually do that,
>
> Ditto.
>
> > which makes the product better, thereby
> > attracting more potential buyers.
>
> I think it makes much more sense to make it
> easy to do that with an ipad or iphone instead.

it's not either/or. do both.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:200520132013543843%nos...@nospam.invalid...

> In article <avvkr8...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >>>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
>> >>>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
>> >>>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
>> >>>> are outside wifi range.
>>
>> >>> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.
>>
>> >> No you can't when you want to start a new route
>> >> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
>> >> cellular data enabled to do that.
>>
>> > yes i can, and i have.
>>
>> Then spell out how to do that.

> load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.

It complains that it can't see the server when you try to route
to another destination after you have arrived at the one that
has no wifi access.

>>>> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.

>>> only within the country they cover.

>> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.

> except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps.

No, you can steal the extra maps you don't have.

> that gets expensive.

Not if you steal them.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web

>>>> How would that help Apple sell machines?

>>> because it makes it easier to submit corrections,

>> That's very arguable indeed compared with
>> say an ipad at the location to do that.

> if it's on the mac (or pc), there's no need
> to go anywhere to submit corrections.

Yes, but you are likely to be where the correction is
needed when you notice that a correction is needed,
so it makes a lot of sense to do the correction there.

And you can take a photo to demonstrate the problem too.

> someone could confirm a lot of roads from their couch.

There shouldn't be a need for a lot of corrections.

>>> so more people will actually do that,

>> Ditto.

>> > which makes the product better, thereby
>> > attracting more potential buyers.

>> I think it makes much more sense to make it
>> easy to do that with an ipad or iphone instead.

> it's not either/or.

Never said it was.

> do both.

Its easy to see why that other approach comes later.

[Chris Blunt]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:16:46 -0400, "D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com>
wrote:

>In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,
> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I've done a lot of work for
>> Google in helping to draw and label their maps using Map Maker, and
>> large sections of Google Maps now contain contributions that I have
>> made.
>
>Do you get paid for this? If not, why do you give free labor to a
>company with $50 billion in revenue?

Because I choose to. Its like any other crowd-sourcing method of
developing something useful, like Wikipedia, for example. I contribute
myself, others provide their input, and we end up with something that
we can all benefit from.

Chris

[Chris Blunt]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:27:15 -0700, Michelle Steiner
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

>In article <48fkp8dgsb6l9r08p...@4ax.com>,
> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
>

>> >I've told Google countless times that what they have listed as
>> >"Crestview Chateaux" is really "Sun River", but to no avail. This
>> >error on google maps is almost a decade old. And they don't even list
>> >Cooper Commons; the two subdivisions occupy a square mile, with Sun
>> >River taking up the southeast quarter. They have the adjacent
>> >subdivisions labeled correctly.
>> >

>> >This is evidence of Google's decline and incompetence.
>>

>> Did you use Google Map Maker to do this?
>
>I submitted the information directly to Google, using their contact link.
>I informed them of the error. It's not up to me to make the corrections
>myself; I'm not in their employ.
>
>BTW, when was Google Map Maker made available to the public, and how does
>one access it?

I don't know when it was first made available, but I've been using it
for many years.

http://www.google.com/mapmaker

Unless its a very simple correction, I don't know how you can
effectively report map errors without a tool similar to Map Maker. You
need to be able mark on a map yourself to clearly explain what needs
correcting. It would be difficult to do this using words alone.

Chris

[Rod Speed]

"Chris Blunt" <ma...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:srglp890ig58e5qsd...@4ax.com...

No, you can use the GPS coords.

[JF Mezei]

On 13-05-20 16:19, D.F. Manno wrote:

>> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web
>
> How would that help Apple sell machines?

Maps aren't abut selling machines, it is about selling advertising on
the maps. And making Apple's maps available on the web would greatly
increase not only use/viewership of ads, but also hep people submit
error reports.

Limiting apple's below-par maps to IOS will not help build the mapping
system to par with others.

[Alan Browne]

It contradicts your "three way relation". When you use the various
services that allow it on Google w/o an account it is an anonymous (you)
relationship with Google. (See my reply to Davoud earlier today).


--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton

[Rod Speed]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> D.F. Manno wrote
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote

>>> Consider that Apple hasn't made its maps available on the web

>> How would that help Apple sell machines?

> Maps aren't abut selling machines,

I think it is for Apple.

> it is about selling advertising on the maps.

I doubt that it is for Apple except as a minor factor.

> And making Apple's maps available on the web would
> greatly increase not only use/viewership of ads,

Not when they don't have any ads.

> but also hep people submit error reports.

Dunno, I would expect that those who do choose to do
that would mostly do that using their ipad or iphone.

> Limiting apple's below-par maps to IOS will not
> help build the mapping system to par with others.

Yes, but there are other ways to fix
the problem with the below par maps.

[nospam]

In article <avvtm8...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >>>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
> >> >>>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
> >> >>>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
> >> >>>> are outside wifi range.
> >>
> >> >>> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.
> >>
> >> >> No you can't when you want to start a new route
> >> >> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
> >> >> cellular data enabled to do that.
> >>
> >> > yes i can, and i have.
> >>
> >> Then spell out how to do that.
>
> > load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.
>
> It complains that it can't see the server when you try to route
> to another destination after you have arrived at the one that
> has no wifi access.

only if the destination is outside the area cached. if it's within the
area, it works just fine. again, i've done this.

and if there's wifi at the destination, you can cache new maps. i've
done this too.

> >>>> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive either.
>
> >>> only within the country they cover.
>
> >> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.
>
> > except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps.
>
> No, you can steal the extra maps you don't have.
>
> > that gets expensive.
>
> Not if you steal them.

only if you have no ethics or morals.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:200520132310259321%nos...@nospam.invalid...

> In article <avvtm8...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >>>> The main thing I don't like about it and with google's
>> >> >>>> is that you can't make it get the maps into the idevice
>> >> >>>> while you still have access to wifi and use it when you
>> >> >>>> are outside wifi range.
>> >>
>> >> >>> yes you can, for a reasonable size area.
>> >>
>> >> >> No you can't when you want to start a new route
>> >> >> when you don't have wifi access. You need to have
>> >> >> cellular data enabled to do that.
>> >>
>> >> > yes i can, and i have.
>> >>
>> >> Then spell out how to do that.
>>
>> > load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.
>>
>> It complains that it can't see the server when you try to route
>> to another destination after you have arrived at the one that
>> has no wifi access.

> only if the destination is outside the area cached.

Don't believe that. When its trying to check the server
for the new destination, it doesn't only check for
destinations that are outside the area cached.

> if it's within the area, it works just fine.

No.

> again, i've done this.

I don't believe that you have.

> and if there's wifi at the destination,
> you can cache new maps.

Obviously.

> i've done this too.

Bet there has in fact been wifi at the destination
and you haven't noticed that there was.

>> >>>> You don't with the dedicated GPS mappers, or with Nokia Drive
>> >>>> either.
>>
>> >>> only within the country they cover.
>>
>> >> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.
>>
>> > except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps.
>>
>> No, you can steal the extra maps you don't have.
>>
>> > that gets expensive.
>>
>> Not if you steal them.

> only if you have no ethics or morals.

Or you decide that they are ripping you off
and that you have already paid for the maps
you should have got with the GPS when others
like Nokia, Apple and Google have them for free.

[Davoud]

Davoud:

> > So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,

Rod Speed:

> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.

Is that the Linux that has 1.21% of the desktop market? The same Linux
that can't run Adobe or Microsoft software? That can't do pro video or
audio? I know that it's great for what it does, but for the average
user it just doesn't do much.

And the corporate state has nothing to do with Linux. Too insignificant
to be on the radar screen.

> > It seems likely that, since Google services require log-ins,
> > they know exactly whose e-mail and location data they
> > are using, and that they have a stored record with full
> > identifying data, waiting to be stolen by a crime syndicate.

> Bet they aren't that stupid, if only because of how spectacularly
> the s**t would hit the fan if that ever happens.

Which alternate universe do you live in?

"Google admits sensitive email accounts have been hacked." Jun 2, 2011
"Google�s Chrome browser has finally been hacked" May 9, 2011
"Google Glass HACKED to transmit everything you see and hear..." May 2,
2013
"Google Wallet Hacked Again" Feb 9, 2012
"Google Apps has been hacked.: Jun 3, 2012

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[nospam]

In article <b009na...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> > load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.
> >>
> >> It complains that it can't see the server when you try to route
> >> to another destination after you have arrived at the one that
> >> has no wifi access.
>
> > only if the destination is outside the area cached.
>
> Don't believe that. When its trying to check the server
> for the new destination, it doesn't only check for
> destinations that are outside the area cached.

i'll believe what i've experienced. i've done it on more than one
occasion.

when apple introduced their maps last year, they said it caches a much
wider area than google does.

> > if it's within the area, it works just fine.
>
> No.

wrong. i've done it, on more than one occasion.

> > again, i've done this.
>
> I don't believe that you have.

of course you don't. anything that says you're wrong must not be true.

> > and if there's wifi at the destination,
> > you can cache new maps.
>
> Obviously.
>
> > i've done this too.
>
> Bet there has in fact been wifi at the destination
> and you haven't noticed that there was.

there was definitely wifi, and i did notice, because the device had no
active cellular data at the time. the *only* way it could get map data
was over wifi.

> >> >> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.
> >>
> >> > except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps.
> >>
> >> No, you can steal the extra maps you don't have.
> >>
> >> > that gets expensive.
> >>
> >> Not if you steal them.
>
> > only if you have no ethics or morals.
>
> Or you decide that they are ripping you off
> and that you have already paid for the maps
> you should have got with the GPS when others
> like Nokia, Apple and Google have them for free.

if you think they're ripping you off, then don't buy the product.

that's not an excuse to steal it.

you're a thief.

[Rod Speed]

Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote

>>> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,

>> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with
>> Linux.

> Is that the Linux that has 1.21% of the desktop market?

It completely dominates the non desktop/laptop market.

And clearly those who choose to use it are NOT
ruled by the the corporate state when they choose
to use what is not from the corporate state.

> The same Linux that can't run Adobe or Microsoft software?

But can run something else that does the same thing.

> That can't do pro video or audio?

Presumably those who use it don't want to do that.

> I know that it's great for what it does, but
> for the average user it just doesn't do much.

Irrelevant to whether we are in fact ruled by the corporate state.

> And the corporate state has nothing to do with Linux.

That's just plain wrong, most obviously with Apple and Google.

> Too insignificant to be on the radar screen.

That's just plain wrong, most obviously with Apple and Google.

>>> It seems likely that, since Google services require log-ins,
>>> they know exactly whose e-mail and location data they
>>> are using, and that they have a stored record with full
>>> identifying data, waiting to be stolen by a crime syndicate.

>> Bet they aren't that stupid, if only because of how spectacularly

>> the shit would hit the fan if that ever happens.

> Which alternate universe do you live in?

We'll see...

> "Google admits sensitive email accounts have been hacked." Jun 2, 2011

Didn't have FULL IDENTIFYING DATA.

> "Google�s Chrome browser has finally been hacked" May 9, 2011

Didn't provide FULL IDENTIFYING DATA.

> "Google Glass HACKED to transmit everything you see and hear..." May 2,
> 2013

Doesn't provide FULL IDENTIFYING DATA.

> "Google Wallet Hacked Again" Feb 9, 2012

Didn't provide FULL IDENTIFYING DATA.

> "Google Apps has been hacked.: Jun 3, 2012

Didn't provide FULL IDENTIFYING DATA.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> load the area you want. the maps are cached on the device.

>>>> It complains that it can't see the server when you
>>>> try to route to another destination after you have
>>>> arrived at the one that has no wifi access.

>>> only if the destination is outside the area cached.

>> Don't believe that. When its trying to check the
>> server for the new destination, it doesn't only check
>> for destinations that are outside the area cached.

> i'll believe what i've experienced.

Me too, just days ago in fact.

> i've done it on more than one occasion.

Don't believe that.

> when apple introduced their maps last year, they
> said it caches a much wider area than google does.

Irrelevant to what it needs to do server wise when
you search for a NEW destination where wifi is not
available.

>>> if it's within the area, it works just fine.

>> No.

> wrong.

No.

> i've done it, on more than one occasion.

Don't believe it.

>>> again, i've done this.

>> I don't believe that you have.

> of course you don't.

Because it didn't work when I tried it, it complained
that it couldn't see the server because the cellular
data is turned off.

>>> and if there's wifi at the destination,
>>> you can cache new maps.

>> Obviously.

>> > i've done this too.

>> Bet there has in fact been wifi at the destination
>> and you haven't noticed that there was.

> there was definitely wifi,

So you arent even talking about the situation I was
discussing, WHETHER IT CAN ROUTE TO A NEW
DESTINATION WHERE THERE IS NO WIFI AVAILABLE.

> and i did notice, because the device had no
> active cellular data at the time. the *only*
> way it could get map data was over wifi.

So you arent even talking about the situation I was
discussing, WHETHER IT CAN ROUTE TO A NEW
DESTINATION WHERE THERE IS NO WIFI AVAILABLE.

>>>>>> They all cover most of the places people want to do that.

>>>>> except you have to buy each country that you want to have maps.

>>>> No, you can steal the extra maps you don't have.

>>>>> that gets expensive.

>>>> Not if you steal them.

>>> only if you have no ethics or morals.

>> Or you decide that they are ripping you off
>> and that you have already paid for the maps
>> you should have got with the GPS when others
>> like Nokia, Apple and Google have them for free.

> if you think they're ripping you
> off, then don't buy the product.

Or buy the product and get additional maps for free.

[Sandman]

In article <frqdnfTRjtIwSgfM...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>> To repeat, it is a three-way relation: You, Google, Your mail database.
> >>
> >> Not at all. Anyone can use Google Maps without an account of any kind.
> >
> > This is not in contradiction with anything I said above.
>
> It contradicts your "three way relation".

Not at all. My "three way relation" was in the context of you being
logged in to Google Maps, at which point it is inevitable. The fact
that you can log out or choose not to even have a Google account was
not part of anything I wrote. I wrote specifically about this three
way relationship.


--
Sandman[.net]

[nospam]

In article <b00ds2...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > The same Linux that can't run Adobe or Microsoft software?
>
> But can run something else that does the same thing.

there isn't anything else that does the same thing.

anyone who claims the gimp is a photoshop clone hasn't any clue what
photoshop can do. even photoshop elements does more than the gimp. the
gimp also much slower than photoshop.

openoffice and other office clones are not fully compatible with
microsoft office either. documents that are complex will often not
display properly in openoffice (tables is a common case) and good luck
if you make a change.

[nospam]

In article <b00eb6...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Because it didn't work when I tried it, it complained
> that it couldn't see the server because the cellular
> data is turned off.

then you did it wrong.

[AV3]

On May/21/2013 12:0447 AM, Davoud wrote:
> Davoud:
>>> So long as we are ruled by the corporate state,
>
> Rod Speed:
>> We aren't and haven't been for a long time now, most obviously with Linux.
>
> Is that the Linux that has 1.21% of the desktop market? The same Linux
> that can't run Adobe or Microsoft software? That can't do pro video or
> audio? I know that it's great for what it does, but for the average
> user it just doesn't do much.
>

I think you are unfair to so characterize Linux. Although I am only
familiar with Ubuntu, my understanding is that most, though not all,
Linux flavors insist on using open software. Proprietary manufacturers
of hardware and software like Apple, Adobe, and Microsoft don't make
Linux versions that won't pay fees or remit payments. So there are no
iTunes or Photoshop or Office for Linux.


It's not that Linux "can't run" that software, it's the creators of that
software that understandably won't make a non-paying Linux version.
There are Linux programs that can read, display and create products
appropriately formatted for "foreign" software: Open-Libre Office, the
Gimp, etc.

> And the corporate state has nothing to do with Linux. Too insignificant
> to be on the radar screen.
>

My interpretation is that the corporate state understandably doesn't
want to support non-paying Linux and that it quite actively wants to
strangle the open software movement.


>>> ...
>


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

[JF Mezei]

On 13-05-21 10:59, AV3 wrote:

> familiar with Ubuntu, my understanding is that most, though not all,
> Linux flavors insist on using open software. Proprietary manufacturers
> of hardware and software like Apple, Adobe, and Microsoft don't make
> Linux versions that won't pay fees or remit payments. So there are no
> iTunes or Photoshop or Office for Linux.

This is not correct. You can run commercial software on Linux. Oracle
sells its expensive database software on it for instance.

Where there are restrictions in in (for instance) Oracle using Linux
source code to embed into its commercial product and selling it on any
platform.

But running your own app (wether commercial or open source) has no
restructions on Linux or any other OS.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> The same Linux that can't run Adobe or Microsoft software?

>> But can run something else that does the same thing.

> there isn't anything else that does the same thing.

Bullshit with MS software.

> anyone who claims the gimp is a photoshop clone hasn't any
> clue what photoshop can do. even photoshop elements does
> more than the gimp. the gimp also much slower than photoshop.

> openoffice and other office clones are not fully
> compatible with microsoft office either.

They still do the same thing.

> documents that are complex will often not display
> properly in openoffice (tables is a common case)
> and good luck if you make a change.

They still do the same thing when you
use either of them for the same work.

And the Apple incarnation of Linux runs MS software fine anyway.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:210520130909149136%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Not even possible to do it wrong.

You have the cellular data turned off,
you type in the new destination in the
search box, you see it tell you that it
can't see its server because cellular
data is turned off and offers to let
you turn it on.

[nospam]

In article <EcCdnSBWutQjFgbM...@earthlink.com>, AV3

<arv...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I think you are unfair to so characterize Linux. Although I am only
> familiar with Ubuntu, my understanding is that most, though not all,
> Linux flavors insist on using open software. Proprietary manufacturers
> of hardware and software like Apple, Adobe, and Microsoft don't make
> Linux versions that won't pay fees or remit payments. So there are no
> iTunes or Photoshop or Office for Linux.

the reason there's no itunes, photoshop or office is because there's no
return on investment to develop and market it. too few linux users
would buy it to make it worthwhile.

> It's not that Linux "can't run" that software,

it definitely is.

itunes, photoshop and office do not run on linux.

> it's the creators of that
> software that understandably won't make a non-paying Linux version.

why would anyone make a non-paying version of paid software?

> There are Linux programs that can read, display and create products
> appropriately formatted for "foreign" software: Open-Libre Office, the
> Gimp, etc.

they don't do anywhere near what the real thing can do.

> > And the corporate state has nothing to do with Linux. Too insignificant
> > to be on the radar screen.
>
> My interpretation is that the corporate state understandably doesn't
> want to support non-paying Linux and that it quite actively wants to
> strangle the open software movement.

that would be wrong.