After Dark 2.0 - any news?
pv...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been
no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net
when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice!
Adam
--
Adam C. Engst pv...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I ain't worried and I ain't scurried and I'm having a good time"
-Paul Simon
Bruce Burkhalter
To: pasteur!helios.ee.lbl.gov!ucsd!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!rochester!cornell!vax8530!pv9y
Subject: Re: After Dark 2.0 - any news?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
In-Reply-To: <4923.2...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Cc:
Bcc:
In article <4923.2...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> you write:
>Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad
>in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been
>no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net
>when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice!
>
>Adam
>
>--
>Adam C. Engst pv...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
I will post the offical press release but here is a rundown
of After Dark 2.0.
After Dark 2.0 is ready! It is a brand new version of the
program, not an update. The new version is pretty slick (but then
again I helped write it! :) ). There are several new modules and
many of the old modules have new features. After Dark 2.0 also
has sound. There is thunder with the lightning. Worms munch your
screen. Puzzle makes a neat clicking noise as the pieces move.
A new feature is SystemIQ. When SystemIQ is active After Dark will
monitor CPU, disk, and modem/printer port activity. If After Dark
senses that the Mac is busy, it will not go to sleep. If After Dark
is already asleep, it will throtle back its animation to give the
Mac more time.
After Dark 2.0 is now aware of "Notification Manager" events such
as Print Monitor alerts and the arrival of electronic mail. If
After Dark is asleep and Apple menu starts to flash, After Dark will
wake up. If the Apple menu is still flashing when After Dark goes
back to sleep, it will scroll a message across the top of the screen
with the icon that is flashing in the Apple menu.
Password protection has been enhanced. After Dark 2.0 now has
automatic password sleep and password protection across reboot.
All of the modules have online help. Just click in the credits area
and it will expand to show info and help about the module.
Here are some of the new modules:
Fish!: Fish! is the After Dark version of Fish! cdev by Tom &
Ed's Bogus software. The fish are large, in full color, and
look just like real fish.
Flying Toasters: Just what it sounds like. :) Toasters with
wings chase toast across the screen. No, there is not a gas
leak in our building. :)
Satori: Fascinating color waves, patterns, and rays fill your
screen and animate. Written by Ben Haller author of Solarian II.
MultiModule: Allows you to run different modules at the same time
anywhere on the screen. Sort of a screen saver construction kit.
Put a different module in each corner of the screen and run them
simultaneously. Run modules on top of each other. Put Puzzle on
top of Can of Worms for an interesting effect. Endless possibilities!
Lots of other stuff but I am tired of typing. If you have any
questions feel free to ask.
Bruce Burkhalter
After Dark Product Manager
Berkeley Systems, Inc.
Bob Walker
>in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been
>no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net
>when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice!
I called Berkeley Systems yesterday, and was told that registered users
would receive an announcement in the mail in mid-to-late August, and I
should wait until then.
I guess that means that it may be ready, but you can't buy it for
another few weeks...
- bob
Bruce Burkhalter
Yeah things have been pretty crazy, finishing up After Dark 2.0,
setting up for MacWorld, going to MacWorld, etc. Unfortunately
we don't have as many people as Microsoft (yet!), so it will take
a little longer to get the upgrade stuff going. Hope you can hold
on for a couple of weeks! If you have any questions, feel free to
ask.
Bruce Burkhalter
After Dark Guy
Berkeley Systems, Inc.
Ken Hancock
>
>I recently purchased a tape drive for my Mac. With that drive, I received the
>After Dark starter kit. There didn't appear to be any way for me to become a
>registered user, although the kit did include a form for me to order the After
>Dark programming kit, extra modules, etc. for ~$14.95. Is there some way for
>me to get After Dark 2.0 without spending the $14.95 for that programming kit
>and an additional $5.00 for an upgrade after that?
I can do this story one better....
A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer.
I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22.
Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0.
So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost
$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the
first place....
Adobe is doing the same thing with Adobe Type Manager 2.0.
$20 for twice the speed for 1.2 -- that's not the 70% of the purchase
price, but still about 50%. Because I've decided to support a
company and a new product from the beginning, I'm the one who's
going to get to pay...
I don't mind paying upgrades for products that are significantly
better, but if the company that makes them doesn't think the new
version is good enough to warrant a price raise, then why am I
getting charge more?
Ken
--
Ken Hancock | This account needs a new home in MA...
Isle Systems | Can you provide a link for it?
is...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu | It doesn't bite... :-)
Steve Dorner
>Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0.
>So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost
>$22 from MacConnection.
Except that you've been using it in the meantime, which is worth something.
I also suspect that $15 is getting close to break-even for distributing
a disk and a small manual. Those of us with published commercial software
probably could tell us for sure.
--
Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office
Internet: s-do...@uiuc.edu UUCP: {convex,uunet}!uiucuxc!dorner
Spot, the Wonder Dog
>A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer.
>I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22.
>Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0.
>So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost
>$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the
>first place....
Well, you're honest because it helps you sleep better at night. Your honest
because it's the honest people that make sure a company gets enough money to
survive long enough to release 2.0 -- and making sure they get enough money
to convince them it's worth doing 2.0.
There's a strong fallacy in your argument -- You're assigning a value of $0
for your ability to have the product. You're saying "I can buy it now for
$22 and buy the new release later for $15, or I can buy the new release
later new for $22" -- what is the *value* of having it for the period
between "now" and "later"? If it's zero, then why are you bothering to use
the product?
Remember, you're USING the product while waiting for the upgrade. That use
is returning some of the value that you paid for it. Sure, you could have
waited. But what would that have cost you elsewhere?
--
Chuq Von Rospach <+> ch...@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking]
It's a small world, after all!
It's a small world, after all!
It's a small world, after all!
It's a small, small world!
Bruce Burkhalter
>
>A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer.
>I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22.
>Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0.
>So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost
>$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the
>first place....
>
>Adobe is doing the same thing with Adobe Type Manager 2.0.
>$20 for twice the speed for 1.2 -- that's not the 70% of the purchase
>price, but still about 50%. Because I've decided to support a
>company and a new product from the beginning, I'm the one who's
>going to get to pay...
>
>I don't mind paying upgrades for products that are significantly
>better, but if the company that makes them doesn't think the new
>version is good enough to warrant a price raise, then why am I
>getting charge more?
>
>Ken
>
>
>
>--
>Ken Hancock | This account needs a new home in MA...
>Isle Systems | Can you provide a link for it?
>is...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu | It doesn't bite... :-)
Ken -
I understand what you are saying. We are in a difficult position.
We can't raise the list price because we will price ourselves out
of the market. Believe me, we think the new version is "good
enough" to deserve a raise in price. We have put *a lot* of work
into After Dark 2.0 but we can't base the price on that. We have
to base it on the competition and what people will pay for this
type of program (i.e. utilities).
The other problem is the upgrade price. If we make the upgrade price
any lower we are virtually giving it away to all registered users.
It costs a couple of bucks just to mail it.
On the other hand, some may feel the upgrade price is too high
with respect to the list price.
While After Dark 2.0 is an "upgrade", I think it is a little
different. For the most part, After Dark is a collection
of modules. In After Dark 2.0, we have added over 10 new modules
and greatly enhanced several "old" ones. If we were to sell
a disk with only new modules, I think $15 would be a fair price.
After Dark 2.0 has lots of new modules and a program that has
several new features all for $15. I think that is a lot of
stuff for $15.
You make a good point about upgrade price with respect to price
paid. One thing I think you should look at is how much money is
actually being spent. If I bought Word 4.0 for $400 and the upgrade
was $300 I would be pretty steamed mainly because that is lot of
money. Even though the $15 upgrade price for After Dark may seem
high becasue you paid $22 (which is nearly half the $40 list
price), it is still not a large amount of money. I would hope most
people could afford a $15 upgrade regardless of what they originally
paid for the program. While this does not necessarily "justify"
the price, I think it is a point to consider when you look at the
upgrade price ratio.
One other point, which I think is important, is the use you get
out of a program. I use Suitcase, Boomerang, and init/cdev
everyday several times a day. The "price/performance" ratio
is very high. These relatively inexpensive programs
really help me get my work done. I hope After Dark falls into
that catagory. There are very few applications
that I use day in and day out. While I need a drawing program, I
don't use it a whole lot. I spent a couple hundred bucks for
something I don't use a lot.
When looking at the upgrade price for After Dark 2.0, please
consider the points I have presented. I glad that you bought
After Dark 1.0 and like it. I know there are a ton of pirated
copies and it is easy to just get a copy from a friend. I really
respect people who resist that temptation.
All I can say is to try After Dark 2.0. I hope you feel it is
worth the $15 upgrade. If you don't, I can respect that opinion
and hope you will continue to enjoy After Dark 1.0.
Greg Smith
> <I called Berkeley Systems yesterday, and was told that registered users
> <would receive an announcement in the mail in mid-to-late August, and I
> <should wait until then.
> <
> <I guess that means that it may be ready, but you can't buy it for
> <another few weeks...
> <
> < - bob
>
>
> Yeah things have been pretty crazy, finishing up After Dark 2.0,
> setting up for MacWorld, going to MacWorld, etc. Unfortunately
> we don't have as many people as Microsoft (yet!), so it will take
> a little longer to get the upgrade stuff going. Hope you can hold
> on for a couple of weeks! If you have any questions, feel free to
> ask.
I recently purchased a tape drive for my Mac. With that drive, I received the
After Dark starter kit. There didn't appear to be any way for me to become a
registered user, although the kit did include a form for me to order the After
Dark programming kit, extra modules, etc. for ~$14.95. Is there some way for
me to get After Dark 2.0 without spending the $14.95 for that programming kit
and an additional $5.00 for an upgrade after that? I really like After Dark,
but I don't want to spend another $20 on something that just came with my tape
drive. Please mail me any responses in addition to posting; I'm going on
vacation, and my news site will have expired your responses by the time I get
back next week.
> Bruce Burkhalter
> After Dark Guy
> Berkeley Systems, Inc.
Greg Smith
Finder Sounds Fall Guy
+----------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Gregory J. Smith | Internet: sm...@bucknell.edu |
| Systems Analyst/Postmaster | sm...@coral.bucknell.edu |
| Bucknell Computer Services | BITNET: sm...@bucknell.bitnet |
| Bucknell University | sm...@bknlvms.bitnet |
| Lewisburg, PA 17837 | AT&Tnet: (717) 524-1801 |
+----------------------------+------------------------------------+
pv...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
copies of such software to qualified consultant/reseller types. I
received a complimentary copy and a number of people have purchased
After Dark after seeing my copy or seeing the demos of it that I've
done with that free copy. I don't work for a big store or anything
like that - I'm an independent consultant, but consultants can do a lot
when given a chance by good companies.
As an aside, an article in MacWEEK said that Berkeley Systems was
awarded the 1990 Computerworld Smithsonian Award for Business and
Related Services for their outSPOKEN product, which help visually
impaired and learning disabled people to use a Mac. Bruce, please
accept my congratulations and convey them to your co-workers. And
see you at Macworld!
Adam Engst, TidBITS editor
In article <26...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, br...@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) writes:
> When looking at the upgrade price for After Dark 2.0, please
> consider the points I have presented. I glad that you bought
> After Dark 1.0 and like it. I know there are a ton of pirated
> copies and it is easy to just get a copy from a friend. I really
> respect people who resist that temptation.
>
> Bruce Burkhalter
> After Dark Guy
> Berkeley Systems, Inc.
Ephraim Vishniac
> All I can say is to try After Dark 2.0. I hope you feel it is
> worth the $15 upgrade. If you don't, I can respect that opinion
> and hope you will continue to enjoy After Dark 1.0.
I saw After Dark 2.0 (plus Bruce, Patrick, and some great T-shirts) at
MacWorld on Wednesday. It is bizarre that you can buy After Dark 2.0
new for $19 at MacConnection's booth (show special, normally $22)
while the upgrade is $15, but I agree with Bruce that 2.0 is worth it.
It's worth that much for the flying toasters alone!
Seriously, it has amazing new features. You can lay out different
modules to use specified areas of the screen, overlapping or not. You
can make modules "transparent" so that overlaps look better. You can
adjust the darkness of the toast :-). There's sound, but I think it's
misplaced in a screen saver.
The t-shirts, on the other hand, are seriously overpriced at $12.
GatorMail t-shirts were free! I bought one anyway, because I just had
to have a shirt that shows the 51st toaster squadron swarming out of
the sky "on a mission to save your screen." Fortunately, I work in a
place where t-shirts are a major art form.
--
Ephraim Vishniac eph...@think.com Thinki...@applelink.apple.com
Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142
One of the flaws in the anarchic bopper society was
the ease with which such crazed rumors could spread.