replacement for the Finder

[bob smith]

Is there any kind of replacement for the Finder in Mountain Lion?

Maybe something I can download from the App Store?

The Finder in Mountain Lion can be really really slow sometimes. Just a whole lot of staring at that beach ball.

Thanks.

[Király]

bob smith <b...@coolfone.comze.com> wrote:
> Is there any kind of replacement for the Finder in Mountain Lion?
>
> Maybe something I can download from the App Store?

I haven't used it in years, but you can try this:
http://cocoatech.com/pathfinder/

> The Finder in Mountain Lion can be really really slow sometimes.
> Just a whole lot of staring at that beach ball.

How much RAM do you have?

--
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

[Bread]

And how many remote filesystems? And what kinds of external drives
(and how often do they spin down)?

Those factors will affect not just Finder but anything which opens up
open/safe file dialog boxes and a few other things.

That said, I like Pathfinder a lot. I use it all the time. It's got a
more useful interface. But I don't think it's any *faster*.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <f29a83ba-4778-4f13...@googlegroups.com>,

Frequent beach balls can be a symptom of a more serious system issue -
even hardware failure (as in hard drive failure). If I were you I would
ensure everything is backed up from this computer first, and then run
some diagnostics on the system to see if anything pops up.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

[bob smith]

I have 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3.

Thanks.

[gtr]

I'm not sure what constitutes "the finder" for most people. In
googling "replacement for finder" to verify some information I find
that TotalFinder, which I use and love, is apparently a "finder
replacement". I have a friend that is quite loyal to Quicksilver
(qsapp.com). A search produces references to ForkLift.

One response included this:

1 - Xfolders
2 - mucommander
3 - Disk Order
4 - FileBrowse
5 - Path Finder

On 2013-03-20 13:59:21 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> Frequent beach balls can be a symptom of a more serious system issue -
> even hardware failure (as in hard drive failure). If I were you I would
> ensure everything is backed up from this computer first, and then run
> some diagnostics on the system to see if anything pops up.

What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?

[Warren Oates]

In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> I'm not sure what constitutes "the finder" for most people. In
> googling "replacement for finder" to verify some information I find
> that TotalFinder, which I use and love, is apparently a "finder
> replacement". I have a friend that is quite loyal to Quicksilver
> (qsapp.com). A search produces references to ForkLift.

I was thinking X-quartz ...
--

Soulless fruitflies are the nanotechnology of the fear industry -- Bucky

[Jolly Roger]

In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> I'm not sure what constitutes "the finder" for most people.

Not sure how relevant what "most people" think is...

Finder is the application responsible for drawing the desktop and
windows you see on your screen once you are logged in. It's as simple as
that.

> In
> googling "replacement for finder" to verify some information I find
> that TotalFinder, which I use and love, is apparently a "finder
> replacement". I have a friend that is quite loyal to Quicksilver
> (qsapp.com). A search produces references to ForkLift.
>
> One response included this:
>
> 1 - Xfolders
> 2 - mucommander
> 3 - Disk Order
> 4 - FileBrowse
> 5 - Path Finder

You forgot an interesting (while perhaps not as fully-featured) one:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/33342/bumptop

The venerable Path Finder is one of the more popular ones, and has been
around a long, long time.

> On 2013-03-20 13:59:21 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>
> > Frequent beach balls can be a symptom of a more serious system issue -
> > even hardware failure (as in hard drive failure). If I were you I would
> > ensure everything is backed up from this computer first, and then run
> > some diagnostics on the system to see if anything pops up.
>
> What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?

To start, run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function, and post here with
any errors you see in the output.

Also, I would wait until the beach balls re-appear, note the current
time and date, and view the /var/log/system log, looking for entries
with a time / date stamp around the same time of day. Post only those
lines here if you want help reading them.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> I have a friend that is quite loyal to Quicksilver
> (qsapp.com)

I used QuickSilver for years before switching to the more stable and
fully-featured (and not free) equivalent, LaunchBar. Now I find going
without LaunchBar to be quite an adjustment. It's extremely useful!

[Ed H.]

In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

There is also another one, XtraFinder (free) which is similar to Total
Finder. I currently use it sometimes, but I mostly use Path Finder.

--
Ed H.

[JF Mezei]

On 13-03-20 09:59, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Frequent beach balls can be a symptom of a more serious system issue

If you have NFS "automount" links (which show up as folders) to remote
servers that are down or unreacheable, this will generate the finder
hanging.

This will happen in file selection dialogues if you click on such a
folder. (So it is not Finder specific, more like file system issue).

OS-X supports many types file systems and I suspect any such type could
potentially create a beach ball if it is down or unavailable.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?

DiskWarrior.

--
May joy be yours all the days of your life! - Phina
We are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass. - The Youngbloods
Those who eat natural foods die of natural causes. - Kperspective

[gtr]

On 2013-03-20 15:57:18 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>

>> I'm not sure what constitutes "the finder" for most people.
>

> The Finder is the interface you see when the second-most item on the left
> of the Menu Bar is "Finder". It consists of the Desktop, icons on the
> Desktop, and any windows (and icons therein) opened in that environment.

Okay, then TotalFinder isn't a finder replaement as it does nothing
relative to the Desktop, icons on the Desktop (nor icon in the
windows). It just provides some distinctions in how windows work;
adding tabs, allowing two panes to be linked together and showing the
sidebar on the right on the right-sided one, etc.

[gtr]

On 2013-03-20 16:43:58 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

>> What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?
>
> To start, run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function, and post here with
> any errors you see in the output.
>
> Also, I would wait until the beach balls re-appear, note the current
> time and date, and view the /var/log/system log, looking for entries
> with a time / date stamp around the same time of day. Post only those
> lines here if you want help reading them.

I'm not the OP, just someone who's curious about the analysis of such
problems outside of the use of Disk Utility.

[gtr]

On 2013-03-20 19:18:09 +0000, Howard S Shubs said:

> In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
>> What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?
>
> DiskWarrior.

Gracias.

[Jolly Roger]

For hard drive issues, if Disk Utility won't repair it, I typically just
reformat it (or replace it if it's really dead).

For other hardware issues, TechTool Pro runs some decent tests. I'm sure
someone will offer other alternatives.

[Jolly Roger]

Yeah... More of an enhancement.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <5149ff61$0$15381$c3e8da3$9f40...@news.astraweb.com>,

Yeah I've had it happen more times than I can count even for AFP shares.
Irritating.

[Alan Browne]

Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
all disks are spun up and have been recently used.

I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

[gtr]

On 2013-03-20 20:56:31 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> In article <2013032012365533853-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-03-20 15:57:18 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
>>
>>> In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what constitutes "the finder" for most people.
>>>
>>> The Finder is the interface you see when the second-most item on the left
>>> of the Menu Bar is "Finder". It consists of the Desktop, icons on the
>>> Desktop, and any windows (and icons therein) opened in that environment.
>>
>> Okay, then TotalFinder isn't a finder replaement as it does nothing
>> relative to the Desktop, icons on the Desktop (nor icon in the
>> windows). It just provides some distinctions in how windows work;
>> adding tabs, allowing two panes to be linked together and showing the
>> sidebar on the right on the right-sided one, etc.
>
> Yeah... More of an enhancement.

Oh but I love it!

[gtr]

On 2013-03-20 20:55:49 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> In article <2013032012402132480-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-03-20 16:43:58 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>>
>>>> What diagnostic systems (other than Disk Utility) do you recommend?
>>>
>>> To start, run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function, and post here with
>>> any errors you see in the output.
>>>
>>> Also, I would wait until the beach balls re-appear, note the current
>>> time and date, and view the /var/log/system log, looking for entries
>>> with a time / date stamp around the same time of day. Post only those
>>> lines here if you want help reading them.
>>
>> I'm not the OP, just someone who's curious about the analysis of such
>> problems outside of the use of Disk Utility.
>
> For hard drive issues, if Disk Utility won't repair it, I typically just
> reformat it (or replace it if it's really dead).
>
> For other hardware issues, TechTool Pro runs some decent tests. I'm sure
> someone will offer other alternatives.

I got TTPro 6 with a bundle recently, but have yet to test drive it.
It sure looks a hell of a lot different that it did 5 years ago...

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <jollyroger-F8FB7...@news.individual.net>,

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> For hard drive issues, if Disk Utility won't repair it, I typically just
> reformat it (or replace it if it's really dead).
>
> For other hardware issues, TechTool Pro runs some decent tests. I'm sure
> someone will offer other alternatives.

Last I looked at it, TTP struck me as not as thorough as DiskWarrior,
for disk-related issues. DiskWarrior inspects the directory structure
and partition map IIUC. It builds a new directory structure, correcting
any errors it finds. If DiskWarrior can't fix it, your drive needs to
be initialized. If that doesn't work, your drive is toast and you
should replace it.

TTP might be good for other aspects of the system. Memory testing, for
instance. I don't know, as I've not updated it in quite a while. It's
no longer on my system.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
>
> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.

Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
make good backups.

[Howard S Shubs]

Nothing wrong with that.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.03.20 19:31 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
> In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
>> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
>> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
>>
>> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.
>
> Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
> make good backups.

I do have good off and online backups but otherwise everything is fine.

"Why" is it not a good sign? This has only occurred since upgrading to ML.

BTW: Not related but I did have a Drobo drive fail the weekend before
last; ordered a new drive and it showed up a couple days later. Slapped
it in (hot swap) and it did its thing - didn't lose a byte of data or a
minute of time over it - nor did I stop TM backups while the failed
drive was in the unit.

Cool thing is I replaced the failed 1 TB drive (of 4 x 1 TB) with a 2 TB
drive. Drobo doesn't care about mixed brands, types, sizes...

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-1C6454....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <jollyroger-F8FB7...@news.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > For hard drive issues, if Disk Utility won't repair it, I typically just
> > reformat it (or replace it if it's really dead).
> >
> > For other hardware issues, TechTool Pro runs some decent tests. I'm sure
> > someone will offer other alternatives.
>
> Last I looked at it, TTP struck me as not as thorough as DiskWarrior,
> for disk-related issues. DiskWarrior inspects the directory structure
> and partition map IIUC. It builds a new directory structure, correcting
> any errors it finds. If DiskWarrior can't fix it, your drive needs to
> be initialized. If that doesn't work, your drive is toast and you
> should replace it.
>
> TTP might be good for other aspects of the system. Memory testing, for
> instance. I don't know, as I've not updated it in quite a while. It's
> no longer on my system.

Yes. TechTool Pro hasn't ever struck me as a great disk repair utility;
hence my use of the phrase "For other hardware issues" above.

[Jolly Roger]

It's decent for detecting non-disk-related hardware issues. I'm sure
there are competing solutions - some better, some worse.

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-F2FB9E....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <2013032015252298456-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
> > On 2013-03-20 20:56:31 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
> >
> > > In article <2013032012365533853-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Okay, then TotalFinder isn't a finder replaement as it does nothing
> > >> relative to the Desktop, icons on the Desktop (nor icon in the
> > >> windows). It just provides some distinctions in how windows work;
> > >> adding tabs, allowing two panes to be linked together and showing the
> > >> sidebar on the right on the right-sided one, etc.
> > >
> > > Yeah... More of an enhancement.
> >
> > Oh but I love it!
>
> Nothing wrong with that.

Nope!

[Jolly Roger]

In article <gcWdncPYf6AJ19fM...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.03.20 19:31 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
> > In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,
> > Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
> >> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
> >> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
> >>
> >> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.
> >
> > Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
> > make good backups.
>
> I do have good off and online backups but otherwise everything is fine.
>
> "Why" is it not a good sign? This has only occurred since upgrading to ML.
>
> BTW: Not related but I did have a Drobo drive fail the weekend before
> last; ordered a new drive and it showed up a couple days later. Slapped
> it in (hot swap) and it did its thing - didn't lose a byte of data or a
> minute of time over it - nor did I stop TM backups while the failed
> drive was in the unit.
>
> Cool thing is I replaced the failed 1 TB drive (of 4 x 1 TB) with a 2 TB
> drive. Drobo doesn't care about mixed brands, types, sizes...

Love my Drobo.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <gcWdncPYf6AJ19fM...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.03.20 19:31 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
> > In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,
> > Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
> >> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
> >> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
> >>
> >> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.
> >
> > Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
> > make good backups.
>
> I do have good off and online backups but otherwise everything is fine.
>
> "Why" is it not a good sign? This has only occurred since upgrading to ML.

Last I had this happen, the directory structure was scrambled. Some
files shared disk blocks, others had none. Not good. It confused the
service behind Spotlight. It also probably confused Finder.

> BTW: Not related but I did have a Drobo drive fail the weekend before
> last; ordered a new drive and it showed up a couple days later. Slapped
> it in (hot swap) and it did its thing - didn't lose a byte of data or a
> minute of time over it - nor did I stop TM backups while the failed
> drive was in the unit.

The benefits of Drobo! I considered one in 2011, but ended up building
a general file server instead.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <jollyroger-60292...@news.individual.net>,

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> It's decent for detecting non-disk-related hardware issues. I'm sure
> there are competing solutions - some better, some worse.

But for disk-related stuff, Alsoft has a long history of knowing their
shit. Before DiskWarrior, they had a defragmentation utility which
kicked ass. I forget the name.

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-F8A060....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <jollyroger-60292...@news.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > It's decent for detecting non-disk-related hardware issues. I'm sure
> > there are competing solutions - some better, some worse.
>
> But for disk-related stuff, Alsoft has a long history of knowing their
> shit. Before DiskWarrior, they had a defragmentation utility which
> kicked ass. I forget the name.

Yep.

[JF Mezei]

Question:

if the file system were somehow corrupt, would the Finder enter
beachball, or would it issue some error dialogues or just abort the
operation ?

I can understand if the physical disk is in the process of failing, and
the file system primitimes will issue multiple read attempts until they
get one that works, during which the finder or any othera pplication
will wait in beachball mode for their IO request to complete.

But if the disk hardware is working fine, then beachball should not
happen because disk IOs will return almost immediatly.

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 00:28:32 +0000, Howard S Shubs said:

> In article <jollyroger-60292...@news.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> It's decent for detecting non-disk-related hardware issues. I'm sure
>> there are competing solutions - some better, some worse.
>
> But for disk-related stuff, Alsoft has a long history of knowing their
> shit. Before DiskWarrior, they had a defragmentation utility which
> kicked ass. I forget the name.

I thought defrg was a non-issue under OSX but note in TechTool 6 that
it's a listed item.

[nospam]

In article <2013032021213213547-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> > But for disk-related stuff, Alsoft has a long history of knowing their
> > shit. Before DiskWarrior, they had a defragmentation utility which
> > kicked ass. I forget the name.
>
> I thought defrg was a non-issue under OSX but note in TechTool 6 that
> it's a listed item.

it is, but that doesn't stop companies from trying to sell you
something that does it.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <2013032021213213547-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> I thought defrg was a non-issue under OSX but note in TechTool 6 that
> it's a listed item.

It is a non-issue. It's things like that which made me drop TTP. If
they can include one irrelevant thing, what other irrelevant things are
they including?

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 11:11:29 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <2013032021213213547-xxx@yyyzzz>

> It is a non-issue. But then again, companies try to sell you antivirus
> software or your Mac too.

But viruses exist for the Mac, and will continue to grow with time.

Can someone explain to me how it is that fragmentation can not happen
on a Mac harddisk? Or is it that reading in fragmented data is no
longer time consuming or potentially problematic?

[Jolly Roger]

In article <514a6977$0$11676$c3e8da3$6901...@news.astraweb.com>,

The consequences really depend on the nature of the corruption. For
instance if a file fragment was missing, the effect might be that the
software reading the file might get only part of the file. Whether this
results in a beach ball depends on how the application reading the file
deals with that situation.

[Jolly Roger]

Apple tells you all about it:

<http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1375>

[nospam]

In article <2013032107555563181-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> >>> But for disk-related stuff, Alsoft has a long history of knowing their
> >>> shit. Before DiskWarrior, they had a defragmentation utility which
> >>> kicked ass. I forget the name.
> >
> >> I thought defrg was a non-issue under OSX but note in TechTool 6 that
> >> it's a listed item.
> >
> > It is a non-issue. But then again, companies try to sell you antivirus
> > software or your Mac too.
>
> But viruses exist for the Mac, and will continue to grow with time.

however, anti-virus software can't block future exploits that haven't
been discovered, so even if you use anti-virus software, you are still
vulnerable.

> Can someone explain to me how it is that fragmentation can not happen
> on a Mac harddisk? Or is it that reading in fragmented data is no
> longer time consuming or potentially problematic?

the file system is designed to avoid fragmentation, plus os x
automatically defragments files on the fly.

fragmentation is not an issue, except in very specific cases such as
video capture.

what matters more is directory optimization, which disk warrior does.

[bob smith]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:47:32 PM UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2013.03.20 19:31 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
>
> > In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,
>
> > Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
>
> >> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
>
> >> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
>
> >>
>
> >> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.
>
> >
>
> > Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
>
> > make good backups.
>
>
>
> I do have good off and online backups but otherwise everything is fine.
>
>
>
> "Why" is it not a good sign? This has only occurred since upgrading to ML.

Yes, I have only seen this after going to Mountain Lion.

Reminds me of Wirth's law...

"software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.03.20 20:26 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
> In article <gcWdncPYf6AJ19fM...@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.03.20 19:31 , Howard S Shubs wrote:
>>> In article <wfCdnf6EL78PttfM...@giganews.com>,
>>> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amount of RAM seems to be irrelevant where ML is concerned. I often
>>>> have 2 - 3 GB free (of 6) and Finder goes into long beachballs - even if
>>>> all disks are spun up and have been recently used.
>>>>
>>>> I've also noticed that spotlight indexer seems to run more often.
>>>
>>> Not a good sign. Do you have good backups? If not, stop right here and
>>> make good backups.
>>
>> I do have good off and online backups but otherwise everything is fine.
>>
>> "Why" is it not a good sign? This has only occurred since upgrading to ML.
>
> Last I had this happen, the directory structure was scrambled. Some
> files shared disk blocks, others had none. Not good. It confused the
> service behind Spotlight. It also probably confused Finder.

Verified the disks (Disk utility), they are fine. This seems to be just
a ML issue.

>> BTW: Not related but I did have a Drobo drive fail the weekend before
>> last; ordered a new drive and it showed up a couple days later. Slapped
>> it in (hot swap) and it did its thing - didn't lose a byte of data or a
>> minute of time over it - nor did I stop TM backups while the failed
>> drive was in the unit.
>
> The benefits of Drobo! I considered one in 2011, but ended up building
> a general file server instead.

It is possibly the best used purchase I've ever made.

I bought the Drobo (2nd gen 4-drive unit) complete with 4 x 1 TB 7200
rpm drives a few years ago for $600. That included the Droboshare
(interface to ethernet).

The later was useless to me so I put it up for sale. I eventually sold
it for $150 (less S&H).

In the end the 4 drive Drobo cost me less than $500 WITH 4 x 1 TB drives
- at the time a ~$400 value in themselves.

My plan forward was to progressively replace the 1 TB's with 2 or 3's -
events conspired to cause 1 to be replaced early. In the end, I expect
the Drobo to die before the disks do... (everything has another copy
elsewhere).

Regrettably, the only cure for a dead Drobo is a replacement Drobo. I'm
not sure if a later edition Drobo (say a 5 drive unit) would be able to
read the data from a 4 drive units drives.

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 15:56:54 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

>> Can someone explain to me how it is that fragmentation can not happen
>> on a Mac harddisk? Or is it that reading in fragmented data is no
>> longer time consuming or potentially problematic?
>
> Apple tells you all about it:
>
> <http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1375>

Good stuff. So anybody who has a tiny hard drive and always keeps it at
95% capacity and writes a lot of video and audio files--THEY oughta buy
a big hard-drive!

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 16:22:34 +0000, nospam said:

>> But viruses exist for the Mac, and will continue to grow with time.
>
> however, anti-virus software can't block future exploits that haven't
> been discovered, so even if you use anti-virus software, you are still
> vulnerable.

Yes, you will still be vulnerable to the *newest* viruses but
invulnerable to all the old ones.

When the Titanic went down there weren't enough safety boats for
everyone, it's true, there were only enough for *the survivors*!

> fragmentation is not an issue, except in very specific cases such as
> video capture.
>
> what matters more is directory optimization, which disk warrior does.

Interesting. I wonder if TechTool 6 does that...

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 19:47:47 +0000, Lewis said:

>> But viruses exist for the Mac,
>

> Uh huh, sure they do.

>
>> and will continue to grow with time.
>

> Sure they will.

Is that sarcastic, or are you conceding the point because you can't
argue against it?

> Number of Mac viruses ever found by mac antivirus software: 0.

If sarcastic, that would imply that antivirus software can't find
viruses. Is that what you're saying, or what you're making fun of?

Are you advising your Mac friends that they should explicity not use
antivirus programs?

[nospam]

In article <201303211620436609-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> > fragmentation is not an issue, except in very specific cases such as
> > video capture.
> >
> > what matters more is directory optimization, which disk warrior does.
>
> Interesting. I wonder if TechTool 6 does that...

i doubt it. disk warrior scans your hard drive and rebuilds a new
directory.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <2013032116170417646-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> Good stuff. So anybody who has a tiny hard drive and always keeps it at
> 95% capacity and writes a lot of video and audio files--THEY oughta buy
> a big hard-drive!

Yes. But then, anyone who keeps their drive at 95% capacity needs a
bigger drive.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <Z8CdndRuDs-469bM...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Verified the disks (Disk utility), they are fine. This seems to be just
> a ML issue.

Note that there's a lot Disk Utility doesn't check. It's good for a
beginning, though. I really ***strongly*** recommend Disk Warrior.

[John Albert]

On 3/19/13 5:11 PM, bob smith wrote:
> Is there any kind of replacement for the Finder in Mountain Lion?

I'd like to see one of the old Classic apps like "DiskTop"
or "DiskTools" updated for OS X.

Essentially, to "look, feel and operate" just as they did
back in the Classic days, but with OS X. I realize there
could be complications with hidden files and permissions.

I used both of those extensively in the Classic days, and I
miss their functionality.

[gtr]

On 2013-03-21 23:37:35 +0000, Howard S Shubs said:

> In article <Z8CdndRuDs-469bM...@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> Verified the disks (Disk utility), they are fine. This seems to be just
>> a ML issue.
>
> Note that there's a lot Disk Utility doesn't check. It's good for a
> beginning, though. I really ***strongly*** recommend Disk Warrior.

Ouch! Still $99.

[nospam]

In article <2013032119075522114-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> >> Verified the disks (Disk utility), they are fine. This seems to be just
> >> a ML issue.
> >
> > Note that there's a lot Disk Utility doesn't check. It's good for a
> > beginning, though. I really ***strongly*** recommend Disk Warrior.
>
> Ouch! Still $99.

well worth it, especially if the alternative is losing the data on your
hard drive.

[nospam]

In article <michelle-D7A9BB...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> > > > Note that there's a lot Disk Utility doesn't check. It's good for a
> > > > beginning, though. I really ***strongly*** recommend Disk Warrior.
> > >
> > > Ouch! Still $99.
> >
> > well worth it, especially if the alternative is losing the data on your
> > hard drive.
>

> It's not very useful for those of us who don't have a disk drive.

where do you store your files? punched cards?

[nospam]

In article <michelle-C1249B...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> I meant optical disk drive, as anyone with even half a brain would
> understand.

anyone with half a brain would realize that an optical drive is not
where people store their files, nor is one necessary for disk warrior
to run.

all macs come with either a hard drive or ssd (some with both), and
disk warrior is very useful for any of them.

[nospam]

In article <michelle-65B8F4...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> > > I meant optical disk drive, as anyone with even half a brain would
> > > understand.
> >
> > anyone with half a brain would realize that an optical drive is not
> > where people store their files, nor is one necessary for disk warrior
> > to run.
>

> When I looked at the Disk Warrior sales page, it shows that the upgrade is
> available only on DVD.
> <https://secure.alsoft.com/cgi-bin/makepage.acgi?DW4UpgradeOrderForm.html>

apparently, you have much less than half a brain.

<http://www.Alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html>
Free DiskWarrior 4 Version 4.4 Disc Update available for owners of
DiskWarrior 4. Both English and Japanese updaters are available.

click the link and you get this:
<http://www.Alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/diskwarriorupdate.html>
Please fill out this form to receive the free update. Your serial
number is required. Downloading will begin immediately. Both English
and Japanese updates are available.

just what do you think "Downloading will begin immediately" means?

for new purchases (non-upgrade), it says 'download and dvd':
<http://www.alsoft.com/Buy/index.html>

which takes you to a license agreement page, which then takes you to:
<https://secure.alsoft.com/cgi-bin/makepage.acgi?orderforma.html>

which clearly states:
� Receive your downloaded software right away.
� Receive a purchase acknowledgement and your required product serial
number via your confirmed e-mail address

> I already have an older version, so I didn't check how it's available for
> the full price.
>
> Turns out that if I want to spend double the upgrade price, I can download
> it.

you didn't say how old your version it but the upgrade is free for 4.x
users (see above).

disk warrior 4 is required for intel, so your version would need to be
*really* old to not qualify, so old that it won't even work on the mac
you *used* to have, nevermind the one you have now.

the upgrade page you cited is for those who have that really old
version, i.e., 3.x and earlier.

the upgrade to 4 brought intel compatibility and is only available via
dvd because they'd need to upgrade not just the disk warrior app to be
intel native, but all of os x too so that the dvd could be bootable.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <michelle-D7A9BB...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <210320132333554224%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > Note that there's a lot Disk Utility doesn't check. It's good for a
> > > > beginning, though. I really ***strongly*** recommend Disk Warrior.
> > >
> > > Ouch! Still $99.
> >
> > well worth it, especially if the alternative is losing the data on your
> > hard drive.
>

> It's not very useful for those of us who don't have a disk drive.

I'm sure there are equivalent programs for SSDs. They fail so
interestingly, y'know?

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <michelle-65B8F4...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> When I looked at the Disk Warrior sales page, it shows that the upgrade is
> available only on DVD.
> <https://secure.alsoft.com/cgi-bin/makepage.acgi?DW4UpgradeOrderForm.html>
>

> I already have an older version, so I didn't check how it's available for
> the full price.
>
> Turns out that if I want to spend double the upgrade price, I can download
> it.

OOOOOOR, you could have an external optical drive. Why you'd want a
machine with no optical drive is beyond me. Not all your software can
be downloaded, as you're seeing.

[Paul Sture]

In article
<howard-A82360....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <michelle-65B8F4...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> > When I looked at the Disk Warrior sales page, it shows that the upgrade is
> > available only on DVD.
> > <https://secure.alsoft.com/cgi-bin/makepage.acgi?DW4UpgradeOrderForm.html>
> >
> > I already have an older version, so I didn't check how it's available for
> > the full price.
> >
> > Turns out that if I want to spend double the upgrade price, I can download
> > it.
>
> OOOOOOR, you could have an external optical drive. Why you'd want a
> machine with no optical drive is beyond me. Not all your software can
> be downloaded, as you're seeing.

The last time I looked external USB optical drives were pretty cheap.

FWIW I have a Firewire external optical drive for my Mac mini, which was
originally purchased because my iBook didn't support writing to DVD (and
USB-1 was painfully slow...).

But I could probably manage without it for the mini, because I have
optical drives on other pieces of kit.

--
Paul Sture

[Paul Sture]

In article <michelle-615814...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <2013032116170417646-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>

> > Good stuff. So anybody who has a tiny hard drive and always keeps it at
> > 95% capacity and writes a lot of video and audio files--THEY oughta buy
> > a big hard-drive!

There's no special magic about video and audio files here, it's just
that they tend to be large.

> Anyone who has a hard drive at 95% capacity should either replace it with a
> larger drive or get another drive of at least the same capacity and move
> half the files to it.

Going back to the days that disks were measured in hundred of megabytes,
common advice for avoiding defragmentation was something like 70%
capacity utilisation. Obviously if you dedicated a disk to a database
container file, 95% wasn't a problem.

Once we started getting disks in the range of 9 GB and above that 70%
figure could be increased.

--
Paul Sture

[Paul Sture]

In article <jollyroger-85D68...@news.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <201303200847181458-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
> > I have a friend that is quite loyal to Quicksilver
> > (qsapp.com)
>
> I used QuickSilver for years before switching to the more stable and
> fully-featured (and not free) equivalent, LaunchBar. Now I find going
> without LaunchBar to be quite an adjustment. It's extremely useful!

Have you come across Alfred?

<http://www.alfredapp.com/>

In it's free form, I am finding it very useful for launching apps.

Although it's free, you need to buy the Powerpack to access its full
capacbilites:

<http://www.alfredapp.com/powerpack/>

--
Paul Sture

[Jolly Roger]

In article <nospam-45FEDF....@news.chingola.ch>,

Interesting. Nope, haven't ever heard of Alfred. Neat! Thanks for
sharing.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

[nospam]

In article
<howard-A82360....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> OOOOOOR, you could have an external optical drive. Why you'd want a
> machine with no optical drive is beyond me.

because it's very rare that they're needed.

> Not all your software can
> be downloaded, as you're seeing.

almost all software can be downloaded, including disk warrior. she's
confused, as usual.

[bob smith]

Why do you say it is bad to keep your hard drive at 95% capacity?

My SSD is currently at 92%.

I didn't see anything in the article that would lead you to that conclusion about the 95%.

Thanks.

[JF Mezei]

On 13-03-21 23:54, nospam wrote:

> where do you store your files? punched cards?

Since OS-X is of Unix heritage, and since Unix dates back from punched
cards days, does OS-X have some legacy punched card drivers by any chance ?

Think of the sales potential to run the USA elections :-) Apple could
then collect the chards and sell some iConfetti :-)

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <michelle-54A84B...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> I don't recall the last time I inserted a DVD or CD into the drive on my
> former iMac, so I didn't bother to buy an external DVD drive for my 2012
> iMac.

I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car, or play DVDs I bought.
When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
don't have to consider. The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <nospam-532F8A....@news.chingola.ch>,

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> The last time I looked external USB optical drives were pretty cheap.

Yes, but why bother? There've been times when I've wanted to do
something with an optical disk while travelling, so I'm supposed to
carry extra kit around? noooooooooo

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <220320131025258227%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article
> <howard-A82360....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
>
> > OOOOOOR, you could have an external optical drive. Why you'd want a
> > machine with no optical drive is beyond me.
>
> because it's very rare that they're needed.

Not in my world.

> almost all software can be downloaded, including disk warrior. she's
> confused, as usual.

Great, she can download it. But since she needs to BOOT IT, that's only
useful if she then BURNS IT to an actual disk.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <nospam-FE3B78....@news.chingola.ch>,

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> Once we started getting disks in the range of 9 GB and above that 70%
> figure could be increased.

As you wish. I go with the concept that it's better to have lots of
fudge space. My 2TB backup drive is at 89% and it's making me a little
nervous. :->

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <514c8c05$0$28422$c3e8da3$aae7...@news.astraweb.com>,

Don't forget paper tape!!

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-998701....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <nospam-532F8A....@news.chingola.ch>,
> Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
>
> > The last time I looked external USB optical drives were pretty cheap.
>
> Yes, but why bother? There've been times when I've wanted to do
> something with an optical disk while travelling, so I'm supposed to
> carry extra kit around? noooooooooo

You're a dying breed, Howard. ; )

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-899950....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <michelle-54A84B...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> > I don't recall the last time I inserted a DVD or CD into the drive on my
> > former iMac, so I didn't bother to buy an external DVD drive for my 2012
> > iMac.
>
> I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car, or play DVDs I bought.
> When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
> don't have to consider. The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.

I'm the opposite. The only reason I have a DVD player hanging around
anymore is to import all of my physical DVDs and CDs to digital format
so I can sell them and get rid of them.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-899950....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > I don't recall the last time I inserted a DVD or CD into the drive on my
> > former iMac, so I didn't bother to buy an external DVD drive for my 2012
> > iMac.
>
> I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car,

ipods or iphones, or a zune, sansia or something else.

> or play DVDs I bought.

download them.

netflix is something like 1/3rd of all network traffic in the evenings.

> When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
> don't have to consider.

then you will soon be considering something other than macs. optical
drives.

or, you could get an external drive.

> The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.

it's one of the best selling mac laptops.

many people *remove* the optical drive in their macbook and replace it
with a second hard drive or ssd.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-998701....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > The last time I looked external USB optical drives were pretty cheap.
>
> Yes, but why bother? There've been times when I've wanted to do
> something with an optical disk while travelling, so I'm supposed to
> carry extra kit around? noooooooooo

how often do you really need it while traveling?

or just get a small external drive suitable for travel.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-37755C....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > > OOOOOOR, you could have an external optical drive. Why you'd want a
> > > machine with no optical drive is beyond me.
> >
> > because it's very rare that they're needed.
>
> Not in my world.

that's why they sell external optical drives.

most people don't need one. software distribution is almost entirely
online and audio/video sales are mostly online.

physical media is going away.

> > almost all software can be downloaded, including disk warrior. she's
> > confused, as usual.
>
> Great, she can download it. But since she needs to BOOT IT, that's only
> useful if she then BURNS IT to an actual disk.

boot off a second hard drive or usb flash drive, which is significantly
faster than a dvd. i've *never* used the disk warrior disc.

[Daniel Cohen]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Number of Mac viruses ever found by mac antivirus software: 0.

Definitely not true.

Mind you, I'm referring to ancient times, Disinfectant on system 6 or 7,
so it might as well be true.
--
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <michelle-23AAF8...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <220320130210378350%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > When I looked at the Disk Warrior sales page, it shows that the upgrade
> > > is
> > > available only on DVD.
> > > <https://secure.alsoft.com/cgi-bin/makepage.acgi?DW4UpgradeOrderForm.html>
> >
> > apparently, you have much less than half a brain.
> >
> > <http://www.Alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html>
> > Free DiskWarrior 4 Version 4.4 Disc Update available for owners of
> > DiskWarrior 4. Both English and Japanese updaters are available.
>

> Wow, it says that a Disc Update is available, and that obviously
> contradicts my statement that a disk update is available.

and this is mr.know-it-all, in his prime! : D

> > apparently, you have much less than half a brain.
> >
> > <http://www.Alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html>
> > Free DiskWarrior 4 Version 4.4 Disc Update available for owners of
> > DiskWarrior 4. Both English and Japanese updaters are available.
> >
> > click the link and you get this:
> > <http://www.Alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/diskwarriorupdate.html>
> > Please fill out this form to receive the free update. Your serial
> > number is required. Downloading will begin immediately. Both English
> > and Japanese updates are available.
> >
> > just what do you think "Downloading will begin immediately" means?
>

> Apparently you can't read an entire page. It also says "Uses your original
> 4.0-4.3 disc to create a new startup disc containing DiskWarrior 4 version
> 4.4. The new disc will only start up the same Mac models as the original
> disc. The included Read Me lists the details."

oh come on now, mr.know-it-all doesn't let little things like pesky
words and facts get in the way of him making a point - he's above all
that nonsense

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-0B61B6....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <nospam-FE3B78....@news.chingola.ch>,
> Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
>
> > Once we started getting disks in the range of 9 GB and above that 70%
> > figure could be increased.
>
> As you wish. I go with the concept that it's better to have lots of
> fudge space. My 2TB backup drive is at 89% and it's making me a little
> nervous. :->

Especially for system startup drives used for memory paging and so on.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.03.22 13:49 , Michelle Steiner wrote:

> I logged onto Aspyre's web site and sent them a message asking what to do.
> They replied, asking me to send them a photo of the original DVD; a few
> moments later, after a Photo Booth session, I sent that disk. They replied
> with detailed instructions on how to download and register the Steam
> engine, and then download Roller Coaster 3 Platinum Edition, and soon Iwas
> up and running.

Nice to know they have a plan to address that issue.

I use a flight simulator (X-plane 9) that needs the #1 disk (of 10) in
the drive to play. Is the same on their next major release.

I do have an external USB CD/DVDdrive (for my SO's MBA) so it's no issue
to borrow that. (IAC such drives cost about $50).

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <220320131428585013%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> how often do you really need it while traveling?

Over the last year, I've wanted it about 33% of the time. I don't
travel much, I'll grant you.

> or just get a small external drive suitable for travel.

But why carry the extra kit around? I can get a machine with the drive
built-in. That's what I have now.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <jollyroger-6871F...@news.individual.net>,

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article
> <howard-998701....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <nospam-532F8A....@news.chingola.ch>,
> > Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
> >
> > > The last time I looked external USB optical drives were pretty cheap.
> >
> > Yes, but why bother? There've been times when I've wanted to do
> > something with an optical disk while travelling, so I'm supposed to
> > carry extra kit around? noooooooooo
>
> You're a dying breed, Howard. ; )

Oh, I hope not! I don't want to die.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <michelle-02D0A4...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> When I play DVDs or BluRay disks, I play them in my BluRay player on my 65"
> TV. I rarely listen to CDs in my car; in fact, if there were an option to
> have a car audio system with only a radio that can tune only to NPR, I'd
> get that option.

I'll grant you that if my car had the ability to accept media on thumb
disks or SD chips, I wouldn't burn CDs either. Maybe the next car.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <jollyroger-A74F2...@news.individual.net>,

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article
> <howard-899950....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
>
> > I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car, or play DVDs I bought.
> > When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
> > don't have to consider. The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.
>
> I'm the opposite. The only reason I have a DVD player hanging around
> anymore is to import all of my physical DVDs and CDs to digital format
> so I can sell them and get rid of them.

I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA loves you. And me, too. I'm not there yet,
but it's coming. Why should I keep the disk after I've imported it,
except maybe as a backup? My current car only has a CD player. It
can't accept electronic media. My *next* car will do so.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <220320131428554851%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article
> <howard-899950....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
>
> > > I don't recall the last time I inserted a DVD or CD into the drive on my
> > > former iMac, so I didn't bother to buy an external DVD drive for my 2012
> > > iMac.
> >
> > I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car,
>
> ipods or iphones, or a zune, sansia or something else.

Not an option in my car. It only has a CD player.

> > or play DVDs I bought.
>
> download them.

And use what for backup?

> netflix is something like 1/3rd of all network traffic in the evenings.

Heh. I hat a Netflix account until recently. They must've been AMAZED
at how fast we watched movies. :->

> then you will soon be considering something other than macs. optical
> drives.

Already am, yes.

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <1l04ktm.1txc6mg15f8m5wN%dcohe...@talktalk.net>,

dcohe...@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:

> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> > Number of Mac viruses ever found by mac antivirus software: 0.
>
> Definitely not true.
>
> Mind you, I'm referring to ancient times, Disinfectant on system 6 or 7,
> so it might as well be true.

I was afraid someone would be silly enough to bring up this irrelevant
history.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-767653....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > or just get a small external drive suitable for travel.
>
> But why carry the extra kit around? I can get a machine with the drive
> built-in. That's what I have now.

not for long.

even pcs are eliminating an internal optical drive.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-6F0F19....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> I'll grant you that if my car had the ability to accept media on thumb
> disks or SD chips, I wouldn't burn CDs either. Maybe the next car.

does it have an auxiliary input jack on the car stereo or an ipod dock?
if not, you can install an adapter for an ipod or other music player.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-07D474....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > > I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car, or play DVDs I bought.
> > > When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
> > > don't have to consider. The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.
> >
> > I'm the opposite. The only reason I have a DVD player hanging around
> > anymore is to import all of my physical DVDs and CDs to digital format
> > so I can sell them and get rid of them.
>
> I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA loves you.

no kidding. although it's legal to encode them, if he sells them or
gives them away and retains a copy, he's guilty of copyright
infringement.

> And me, too. I'm not there yet,
> but it's coming. Why should I keep the disk after I've imported it,
> except maybe as a backup?

keeping the discs as a backup is legit.

> My current car only has a CD player. It
> can't accept electronic media. My *next* car will do so.

you can get an adapter for an ipod.

[nospam]

In article
<howard-417D6B....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> > > or play DVDs I bought.
> >
> > download them.
>
> And use what for backup?

hard drive.

do you really backup to dvd?? that's nuts.

[Jolly Roger]

In article
<howard-07D474....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,

Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:

> In article <jollyroger-A74F2...@news.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <howard-899950....@c-131-121-196-216.gonavy.usna.edu>,
> > Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I do it all the time, to make CDs for my car, or play DVDs I bought.
> > > When Apple releases a machine w/o an optical drive, that's a model I
> > > don't have to consider. The Air was always a silly concept, in my mind.
> >
> > I'm the opposite. The only reason I have a DVD player hanging around
> > anymore is to import all of my physical DVDs and CDs to digital format
> > so I can sell them and get rid of them.
>
> I'm sure the MPAA and RIAA loves you. And me, too. I'm not there yet,
> but it's coming. Why should I keep the disk after I've imported it,
> except maybe as a backup? My current car only has a CD player. It
> can't accept electronic media. My *next* car will do so.

We've kept ours for backup purposes for too long already for my comfort.
Move a couple times with a large collection of DVDs and CDs and you
learn to re-prioritize what you really want to lug around with you. ; )
Having these sitting around gathering dust or taking up storage space in
a closet is wasteful and unnecessary for me. So I'll get rid of the
physical artifact, and keep the digital copy. Problem solved.