PB: To shutdown or not to shutdown?
Rick Burton
sleep it?
I know, it's a perennial question for laptop users, but as a new
PowerBook G4 owner it's an issue that interests me.
At the moment I tend to shutdown my PB after each session, particularly
overnight. I tend to think sleeping it will drain the battery too much
over that period of time. However, I'm pretty impressed with the battery
performance of my PB so I'm wondering if it could be left on sleep for
longer periods.
I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
decision.
Cheers,
Rick
Simon Stuart
> I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> decision.
I put my PowerBook to sleep and leave it plugged in to the mains. I see no
point at all in shutting it down. My iMac, however, gets shut down -
basically because it's got a CRT in it and I'm old-fashioned and paranoid.
S
Chris Ridd
Burton" <rik...@btinternet.com> wrote:
I always put mine (a Titanium 667MHz job) to sleep when I'm not using it. I
leave it plugged in to the mains when possible, even if it is sleeping,
because you basically want to keep the battery as topped up as possible.
I only shut it down if I know I'm not going to be using it for a long time
(eg for a week or two.)
Cheers,
Chris
Peter Verdon
> So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
> sleep it?
Sleep it, definitely, so that it "boots up" instantly the next time you need
it. I've never left mine turned off (though I have rebooted it to clear
problems; regrettably more frequently since 10.3.4 came out). Of course, I
use my Powerbook daily; if I were going to leave it longer (a week, say)
then I would probably turn it off.
> I tend to think sleeping it will drain the battery too much
Sleeping does use a certain amount of power. Once, when my machine went to
sleep because of low battery I left it for six hours or so before getting
it out to charge (and use at the same time). I found that it had turned
itself off because the battery level had become too low even for sleep. But
I read somewhere that with a full battery to begin with it will sleep for a
month before turning itself off.
In my opinion, sleep is the default "power off" for Mac laptops, with hard
shutdown only for long-term storage.
Pete
NB: Do not try to apply the same reasoning to Windows laptops. In my
experience they're crap at sleeping and power management in general.
Peter Ceresole
> At the moment I tend to shutdown my PB after each session, particularly
> overnight. I tend to think sleeping it will drain the battery too much
> over that period of time.
I set my 667 TiBook, running 10.2.6, to sleep overnight. But it's always
plugged into the mains; don't run your battery down more than you have
to. The old chestnut about letting the battery run down to zero between
recharges is just that; a chestnut. Used to be the way to look after
ancient NiCD cells, but it's a quick way to kill the modern NiMH cells
in iBooks and PowerBooks.
Leave them on charge overnight- and during the day if you can; you
*can't* overcharge them in the Mac. And in that case having the Mac
sleep will make no difference- it'll just start up much more quickly in
the morning and all your apps will still be up and running.
If you can't leave it on charge, then it *is* better to power down if
you're not using it for a few hours. Sleep does use some power.
--
Peter
Bonge Boo!
Burton" <rik...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> decision.
Sleep. Never shutdown.
Jason Koesters
I've left mine in sleep mode for about a week without it shutting down.
I only restart it when there are updates and I never shut it down.
Some people have mentioned they leave the laptop plugged in. I tend to
let the battery drop to around 60 to 70% and then I plug it back in for
recharging. I read something online about batteries once and that was
the recommendation. Don't treat it like a NiCd or NiMH and drain it all
the way to the bottom. I've also seen people with Li ion batteries that
left them plugged in all the time like a desktop and they can't ever
unplug it anymore, because the battery is totally dead.
HTH,
Jason
Peter Ceresole
> Some people have mentioned they leave the laptop plugged in. I tend to
> let the battery drop to around 60 to 70% and then I plug it back in for
> recharging. I read something online about batteries once and that was
> the recommendation. Don't treat it like a NiCd or NiMH and drain it all
> the way to the bottom.
PBook batteries *are* NiMH, and the best way to look after them is to
keep them charged to the max, as much as possible.
--
Peter
Woody
> I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> decision.
If I am taking it out of the house like into work I shut it down,
otherwise I just close the lid (which is most of the time).
--
Woody
Bonge Boo!
1ggxkvp.731xow16eq536N%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk, "Peter Ceresole"
<pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Err. No they aren't, and no it isn't.
zoara
> So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
> sleep it?
Sleep.
> At the moment I tend to shutdown my PB after each session, particularly
> overnight. I tend to think sleeping it will drain the battery too much
> over that period of time.
The battery will let your 'book sleep for a week or more when fully
charged.
> I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> decision.
Waiting for booting is boring. If it's asleep you start in seconds.
Both my partner's and my iBooks are never turned off. My partner's is
rarely plugged in, mine is but it's more havily used.
-z-
--
"Analogies are like Vegemite sandwiches in a paper bag."
-- PeterD, uk.comp.sys.mac
Robin Jackson
"Woody" <use...@alienrat.co.uk> wrote:
This is my 5th Apple Powerbook.
The ONLY time I close it down is if I am installing some hardware or
restarting.
Otherwise it always travels in sleep mode, on planes, trains and
automobiles.
I just close the lid and put it in my case.
I have NEVER had a problem with any of them
Robin
BreadW...@fractious.net
> You should be able to let it sleep for at least a few days. I think
> I've left mine in sleep mode for about a week without it shutting
> down. I only restart it when there are updates and I never shut it
> down.
Mine seems to drain 10-15% of battery per day in sleep if
not plugged in. Unless I'm going to be leaving it both
unplugged and unused for more than a few days, it just
goes to sleep. I can't remember the last time I actually
powered it down and left it that way (as opposed to just
a restart).
Rate of drain was about the same in my old iBook as it
is in my fairly recent pBook.
> was the recommendation. Don't treat it like a NiCd or NiMH and drain
> it all the way to the bottom. I've also seen people with Li ion
> batteries that left them plugged in all the time like a desktop and
> they can't ever unplug it anymore, because the battery is totally dead.
Well, they do have an effective lifetime. After about 2-1/2
years, I had to replace my iBook battery. It got down to
the point where the batter would only power it for actual
use for 45 min to an hour. New battery and it was back up
to about 3 hrs.
I believe that that's fairly normal.
--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting
Chas
Err, they're actually lithium ion. IIRC, LI batteries have been used
since the days of the 5300.
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html
=:~)
--
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day
they start making vacuum cleaners." - Ernest Jan Plugge
news at cdss dot fsnet dot co dot uk
Obfus Kataa
My 2002 PB is LiON. I believe LiON has been the industry standard for
notebooks at least since 2000.
--
oK+++
begin 777 .signature
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end
-Secret Coded Message
16:04 up 35 days, 17:48, 1 user, load averages: 1.48 1.36 1.28
Peter Ceresole
> > PBook batteries *are* NiMH, and the best way to look after them is to
> > keep them charged to the max, as much as possible.
>
> Err. No they aren't, and no it isn't.
Bother. Indeed. I'm wrong. But keeping them fully charged does seem to
keep Li-ions in good health. Discharging them certainly a no-no.
I did have a TonkaBook that I left asleep by accident when we left for 5
weeks. No problem except that somebody then unplugged the power supply.
When we got back it had been completely discharged for at least three
weeks. The battery has quite dead, couldn't be revived. Had to buy a new
one. But it *was* something like three years old before the incident,
even though it had had a quite reasonable battery life.
--
Peter
G. Michael Paine
Rick Burton <rik...@btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi,
My iBook G4 since November has been shut down only 3 or 4 times. I like
to have it available to take notes and jottings at a moments notice.
Every other day or so I charge it when needed.
-M.P.
John Biltz
(in article <cd3ttv$m8k$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>):
I turn it off normally. Probably a bad Windows habit more than anything
else. But I have had it fail to start up properly. That is more of an
annoyance then turning it on in the morning. If it wasn't for it doing
that every once in awhile I probably would just sleep it. I never leave
it plugged in when I go to bed.
Joel Farris
> If you can't leave it on charge, then it *is* better to power down if
> you're not using it for a few hours. Sleep does use some power.
Wrong. Why are you people so afraid of using up a little battery power at night?
I've never purposely hit 'shutdown' on my Pismo, even if I leave it in the
backback for a week while I'm on vacation. The laptop was not made to be shut
off. Ever. That's why it has an onboard source of power that's renewable and
long lasting.
Use those batteries, folks! I can't tell you how sad it makes me inside (do i
really need therapy?) when I'm at a coffee shop and people are looking for a
power outlet so they can use their laptop for 15 minutes to check email. The
response I hear too often? "I don't want to wear down the battery." What? Just
leave the batery at home then, and save yourself an extra pound of dead weight.
There is no need to shut down a computer. I have four of them in my house, and
they all sleep themselves at midnight, awaken themselves at 9:00am, rarely crash
and need a reboot, but most importantly, don't ask me to wait for two minutes
every time I want a bit of information from them.
We humans waste far too much time waiting for computers to start up. Even if
your computer only took two minutes to start, you lose over 12 hours a year
staring at a useless screen! Count the time it takes for all your needed
applications to come online, and you might be upwards of a full day lost every
single year of your life. If you learned how to use computers in school and you
live to be 80, you've traded about 100 hours of your life. That's almost three
weeks! I'd rather take a three week vacation. WooYaa!
Shutdown? I think not.
--
Joel Farris | Q: It reverses the logical flow of conversation.
twinkledust Designs | A: Why is top posting frowned upon?
http://twinkledust.com|
AIM chat: FarrisJoel | "John Kerry: A walking, talking contradiction"
X Kyle M Thompson
>So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
>sleep it?
I just log out, although responsiveness was getting a bit slow
after 32 days' uptime so I restarted.
Leaving the pooter on lets cron do its housekeeping (usu at 3am),
(I do use anacron too, but I'm not convinced it is
working)
I switch it off for long journeys in the car, and when I'm on
holiday and that's about it.
kt.
--
So I rang up a local building firm,
I said 'I want a skip outside my house.'
He said 'I'm not stopping you.'
Jon B
> Rick Burton wrote:
>
> > So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
> > sleep it?
>
> Sleep it, definitely, so that it "boots up" instantly the next time you need
> it. I've never left mine turned off (though I have rebooted it to clear
> problems; regrettably more frequently since 10.3.4 came out). Of course, I
> use my Powerbook daily; if I were going to leave it longer (a week, say)
> then I would probably turn it off.
>
> > I tend to think sleeping it will drain the battery too much
>
> Sleeping does use a certain amount of power. Once, when my machine went to
> sleep because of low battery I left it for six hours or so before getting
> it out to charge (and use at the same time). I found that it had turned
> itself off because the battery level had become too low even for sleep. But
> I read somewhere that with a full battery to begin with it will sleep for a
> month before turning itself off.
>
Yes agreed, for overnight or over the weekend I just sleep the laptop
[1], even in transportation, my G4 iBooks already covered a few thousand
miles sliding around the boot of various cars in that state too. I don't
think they'll last as long as a month asleep, probably just over a week
fully charged but I've never done any scientific tests. But yes never
had any problems doing that with either this G4 iBook or the G3 iBook
before that
> In my opinion, sleep is the default "power off" for Mac laptops, with hard
> shutdown only for long-term storage.
>
Its the same for our Mac desktops nowadays :)
>
> NB: Do not try to apply the same reasoning to Windows laptops. In my
> experience they're crap at sleeping and power management in general.
Aren't they just although the XP IBM we've got here is much better than
the win98 IBM we've got, sleep/hibernate on that was useless.
[1] I've normally found when its turned itself off I normally have
enough power to leave it asleep till the next day.
--
Jon
Remove "usenetspam" from address above to reply
Peter Ceresole
> Leaving the pooter on lets cron do its housekeeping (usu at 3am),
> (I do use anacron too, but I'm not convinced it is
> working)
Does it do that while asleep? I think not...
> I switch it off for long journeys in the car, and when I'm on
> holiday and that's about it.
Exactly. Except that I (sad person) take the Mac on holiday- which is
when it gets the two or three days in the car.
And I leave it on charge all the time, except for doing slide shows at
weddings and parties; people *love* to see the pictures you just took of
them...
--
Peter
Jon B
> X Kyle M Thompson <kyle.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Leaving the pooter on lets cron do its housekeeping (usu at 3am),
> > (I do use anacron too, but I'm not convinced it is
> > working)
>
> Does it do that while asleep? I think not...
>
No which is why some of us have little utils to run them while we go get
lunch/make coffee etc.
Andrew Hickley
> > > (I do use anacron too, but I'm not convinced it is
> > > working)
> >
> > Does it do that while asleep? I think not...
> >
> No which is why some of us have little utils to run them while we go get
> lunch/make coffee etc.
This sounds like something I should know about. Can you tell me more?
Jon B
MacJanitor is the one I use
<http://personalpages.tds.net/~brian_hill/macjanitor.html>
Onyx is another recommended one
<http://www.boostware.com/os/mac/onyx.html>
Coffee :)
<http://www.krups.com/>
Andrew Hickley
>
> MacJanitor is the one I use
> <http://personalpages.tds.net/~brian_hill/macjanitor.html>
>
> Onyx is another recommended one
> <http://www.boostware.com/os/mac/onyx.html>
>
> Coffee :)
> <http://www.krups.com/>
Thanks very much Jon. MacJanitor now in use...
Peter Ceresole
> > MacJanitor is the one I use
> > <http://personalpages.tds.net/~brian_hill/macjanitor.html>
> Thanks very much Jon. MacJanitor now in use...
Here too- I always meant to and finally got of my duff...
One curiosity. I installed it ("drag MacJanitor to your hard drive") and
it refused to copy to my boot volume (Darwin- OS10.2.6). There was no
dialogue box, just nothing happened. But it went fine to the top level
of my second partition, (HD OS 9.2.2 boot volume). This while running in
10.2.6
It runs fine; asked for my password and settled down. Daily took
seconds, Weekly took minutes and Monthly took seconds again. As Weekly
appears to involve rebulding three catalogue files, it's not surprising
it took some time, on its first ever run.
But why would it not install on the OS10 boot volume, but install and
work fine from the other partition? Just curious.
--
Peter
Chris Ridd
150720040932497430%NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com, "Tim Lance"
<NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Depending on how you use your machine it may not be an issue. After a
> couple days I do feel it and only a reboot works. Processes continue to
> use their original VM allocation and so you can't delete the early
> files. Oh, you can put them into the trash but they stay there even if
> you empty the trash (unless you Secure empty - and then your machine is
> mucked until you reboot).
You're trying to trash your vm swapfiles???!!!
Cheers,
Chris
Gavin Ramsay
> Peter Ceresole wrote:
>
> > If you can't leave it on charge, then it *is* better to power down if
> > you're not using it for a few hours. Sleep does use some power.
>
>
> Wrong. Why are you people so afraid of using up a little battery power at
> night?
Each to his own...
Ooh. Hey Joel. Getting too intellectual for you over at a.a.p.l-s?
;)
Gav
--
Gavin Ramsay
Herringbone Productions
Scotland
Peter Ceresole
> > If you can't leave it on charge, then it *is* better to power down if
> > you're not using it for a few hours. Sleep does use some power.
>
>
> Wrong. Why are you people so afraid of using up a little battery power at
> night?
Not wrong at all.
When you go on battery power you want to conserve as much as possible.
There's absolutely no point in running out because you can't be bothered
to power down overnight- that's just dumb.
--
Peter
Woody
I tend to have mine plugged in at night, but that is because by then the
battery has given me its 3 minute shutdown warning.
It is connected all night and most of the day, then in the evening I put
the PSU away and it generally stays on until the battery is completely
flat.
However, I have left it from time to time unplugged all night, and I
never shut it down in the house.
--
Woody
Clark Martin
pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
Just a guess but the energy used keeping the computer in sleep over
night is less than that needed to start it again.
In any event I almost never shut it down. Sleep uses very little power.
I much prefer to have everything ready to go when I wake it up. I
normally leave it plugged in. Normally the only time I leave it off
charge is when I'm transporting it. When I use it in the car I run it
off of a car adapter. Most of the time when I'm running it where no
mains power is available I use a 12V power pack and the car adapter to
power it. The power pack is a lot cheaper than a laptop battery and
runs it longer. But when I want to use it where I can't plug it in to
any power supply then I use the laptops battery. No point in having
them if I don't use them. But no sense wasting them either.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting
"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
Peter Ceresole
> Just a guess but the energy used keeping the computer in sleep over
> night is less than that needed to start it again.
I've wondered about that; it really depends on the relative power use
of, say, ten hours of sleep versus the disk activity of a startup. And
the disk activity is really just moving the heads- once awake and
spinning there's no more and no less power consumption during startup
than just sitting there with some keyboard input.
I'd say powering down and starting up wins.
--
Peter
Tim Cutts
>the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
>decision.
Sleep is definitely more convenient. But OS X boots so fast anyway,
that the occasional shutdown does not hurt.
I shut down mine may be once a week or so. For one thing, I like the
idea of a 'fresh start' every so often. No OS is entirely free from
memory leaks, so a restart will leave you with more free memory. I've
always been one of those people who closes all their apps and logs out
at the end of the working day, anyway, so it's not as if I need to keep
stuff running.
But the most frequent reason I shut mine down is if I've been using it
in the bedroom - that damned pulsating light on the case latch seems
really bright with the lights off... ;-)
Tim
Eric Johnson
x9rJc.256737$Gx4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "Joel Farris"
<this....@valid.address> wrote:
>
> There is no need to shut down a computer. I have four of them in my house, and
> they all sleep themselves at midnight, awaken themselves at 9:00am, rarely
> crash
> and need a reboot, but most importantly, don't ask me to wait for two minutes
> every time I want a bit of information from them.
I will have to agree, this is the best argument for sleep rather than
shut-down. Especially with Osx's instant wake.
Also, the idea that laptops were not made to be shut down is fairly
reasonable. It could be argued that, given the tight tolerances in laptops,
expansion and contraction due to constant heating/cooling from off to on and
back to off, many problems that crop up after some period of use could be
prevented by limiting the expansion/contraction process.
EJ
Peter Renzland
> In article <1ggznka.u7jmsgm4y4kN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,
> pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
>> Joel Farris <this....@valid.address> wrote:
>>
>> > > If you can't leave it on charge, then it *is* better to power down if
>> > > you're not using it for a few hours. Sleep does use some power.
>> >
>> >
>> > Wrong. Why are you people so afraid of using up a little battery power at
>> > night?
>>
>> Not wrong at all.
> Just a guess but the energy used keeping the computer in sleep over
> night is less than that needed to start it again.
My measurements (about a year ago):
Usage load: sleep: 14 mA; doing nothing: 400 mA; low use: 750 mA; max: 1200 mA
Battery time: 10 days; 8h:05m; 4h:20m; 2h:45m
As you can see, maximum drain is about 80 times as much as sleep.
Thus, if it takes you 3 minutes to reboot, you can get 4 hours of sleep
for that energy. YMMV.
Consider as well that load surges (as during reboot) may de-calibrate your
battery system, resulting in unexpected (apparent) battery depletion.
-- Peter
Chris Ridd
160720040910566472%NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com, "Tim Lance"
<NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <BD1C5AFA.2DFB5%chri...@mac.com>, Chris Ridd
> Just for grins to see what would happen. Seriously. Didn't do it until
You're a sick man ;-)
> I had a backup. I have srewed up UN-intentially enough times to know
> better. It was just curiosity and part of a discussion in c.s.m.s
> awhile back. Actually didn't crash the machine per se, some things just
> didn't work. Reboot was fine. No real fun. : ) What we want is for
> the OS to transfer VM allocations as files are created so that old can
> be done away with. As it is you can have, say, (simplelified
> explanation here) one process using a bit of the first swapfile, a
> second process a little bit of the second, and so on. Why not have the
> OS at some point just reorder and reclaim space without rebooting? Of
> course there may be good reasons I don't comprehend, but others that do
> know more than me wondered the same.
I believe reclamation *does* occur - I've logged out and back in again, and
have on occasion observed fewer swapfiles after logging back in again.
The manual page for dynamic_pager suggests this will happen under certain
conditions. Since logging out will kill the processes that run the GUI (and
use lots of memory), I guess logging out tends to trigger those conditions.
Cheers,
Chris
zoara
> When you go on battery power you want to conserve as much as possible.
> There's absolutely no point in running out because you can't be bothered
> to power down overnight- that's just dumb.
It's not just "can't be bothered to power down overnight", it's also
"can't be bothered to answer all the 'do you wish to save changes'
dialogs, wait around ensuring that it *does* shut down instead of
borking on some stuck process, then the next day wait while it boots,
then re-open all your applications, remember which
documents/websites/projects were open in them and re-open those, and
finally, wait whilst they load".
Two (partial) solutions:
1. Saved-state applications. Close an app with files/projects open, and
when you re-open the app, everything re-opens as it was. iMovie does
this, Omniweb does this, Mail does this (all to varying extents). It
astounds me that in this day and age, so few applications save state,
when it is *so* useful (I have literally dozens of web pages open at any
one time, and quitting/restarting safari was a nightmare - OmniWeb is so
much better). Reload an app and you're immediately back where you left
off, no faffing.
Saved state should also be independent of the file or project's saved
state - if you quit an application when an unsaved document is open, you
should *not* be forced to save that document, and if you don't, when you
restart the app, the unsaved document will re-appear exactly as you left
it.
2. Hibernation (ie 'saved-state system'). A deeper version of sleep
where the contents of RAM are saved to disk, and reinstated on wake. PC
laptops do this (though not reliably, AIUI) and some iBooks had the
facility to in an early version of OS9 (IIRC). This would mean a) you'd
get a shorter 'boot' time than with off/on, b) you'd have no hassle of
reloading everything just to get back to where you were, and c)
hibernation time is indefinite (ie it uses no battery at all).
zoara
> I can't tell you how sad it makes me inside (do i really need therapy?)
> when I'm at a coffee shop and people are looking for a power outlet so
> they can use their laptop for 15 minutes to check email. The response I
> hear too often? "I don't want to wear down the battery." What? Just leave
> the batery at home then, and save yourself an extra pound of dead weight.
If these people are using Windows laptops, they may only have an hour or
so of real-world battery use.
-z-
zoara
> And I leave it on charge all the time, except for doing slide shows at
> weddings and parties; people *love* to see the pictures you just took of
> them...
Don't they just? It all got a little weird once when Friend One took a
photo of Friends Two, Three and four looking at the photos I'd just
taken of them.... so, of course, they then wanted to see the photo that
had just been taken of them looking at the photo that had just been
taken of them.
It all got very meta and we may have spawned a parallel universe that
took over this one - sorry if that has inconvenienced anyone.
-z-
Peter Ceresole
> As you can see, maximum drain is about 80 times as much as sleep.
> Thus, if it takes you 3 minutes to reboot, you can get 4 hours of sleep
> for that energy.
The other way round; if you power down the Mac for 6 hours (which is
less time than I'd have it down for overnight) then you make a clear
gain over sleeping it. Not a huge gain, but then six hours is a short
night.
--
Peter
Peter Hayes
> On 15-07-2004 10:22, in article
> x9rJc.256737$Gx4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "Joel Farris"
> <this....@valid.address> wrote:
>
> >
> > There is no need to shut down a computer. I have four of them in my
> > house, and they all sleep themselves at midnight, awaken themselves at
> > 9:00am, rarely crash and need a reboot, but most importantly, don't ask
> > me to wait for two minutes every time I want a bit of information from
> > them.
>
>
>
> I will have to agree, this is the best argument for sleep rather than
> shut-down. Especially with Osx's instant wake.
Every time.
> Also, the idea that laptops were not made to be shut down is fairly
> reasonable. It could be argued that, given the tight tolerances in laptops,
> expansion and contraction due to constant heating/cooling from off to on and
> back to off, many problems that crop up after some period of use could be
> prevented by limiting the expansion/contraction process.
My PowerBook gets just as cold sleeping as it does switched off - 2
Watts isn't going to generate much heat.
--
Peter
Peter Hayes
> Rick Burton <rik...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> > the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> > decision.
>
> If I am taking it out of the house like into work I shut it down,
> otherwise I just close the lid (which is most of the time).
Why?
There's no meaningful difference between sleep and power off other than
sleep offers instant restart.
--
Peter
Peter Hayes
> In article <cd3ttv$m8k$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>,
> Rick Burton <rik...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >I'd love to hear how other laptop users treat their machines and what
> >the current thinking in on sleep vs. shutdown. Please help me reach a
> >decision.
>
> Sleep is definitely more convenient. But OS X boots so fast anyway,
> that the occasional shutdown does not hurt.
My WinXP Dell laptop boots far faster than my PowerBook, seconds instead
of 1-2 minutes.
> I shut down mine may be once a week or so. For one thing, I like the
> idea of a 'fresh start' every so often. No OS is entirely free from
> memory leaks, so a restart will leave you with more free memory. I've
> always been one of those people who closes all their apps and logs out
> at the end of the working day, anyway, so it's not as if I need to keep
> stuff running.
>
> But the most frequent reason I shut mine down is if I've been using it
> in the bedroom - that damned pulsating light on the case latch seems
> really bright with the lights off... ;-)
Yes, It looks cool, but it's also a security risk.
There really should be an option to turn it off, or have it very dim and
not pulsating.
--
Peter
Peter Ceresole
> Yes, It looks cool, but it's also a security risk.
>
> There really should be an option to turn it off, or have it very dim and
> not pulsating.
I have a very hi-tech solution; I cover the flashing LED with a cloth or
lay a book on it.
Do you suppose I could sell the idea to Apple?
--
Peter
Peter Verdon
> Clark Martin <cmn...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> Just a guess but the energy used keeping the computer in sleep over
>> night is less than that needed to start it again.
> I've wondered about that; it really depends on the relative power use
> of, say, ten hours of sleep versus the disk activity of a startup.
> I'd say powering down and starting up wins.
I'd agree that powering down "wins" in the power consumption stakes, but it
also loses heavily as far as convenience is concerned. Since 1) I bought a
Mac for convenient computing[1] and 2) I'm rarely in the field without
power, I only ever put my machine to sleep, except for the occasional
restart.
Pete
[1] I could do as much, or probably more, on my Linux machines, but often
only after hours of hacking. Thus, the only tasks that were truely
convenient were those I did often enough to bother simplifying and
semi-automating (ie Web, email, news, Eclipse and LyX).
Peter Verdon
<sleep Vs power-off>
> Also, the idea that laptops were not made to be shut down is fairly
> reasonable. It could be argued that, given the tight tolerances in
> laptops, expansion and contraction due to constant heating/cooling
You still get heating/cooling if you put your machine to sleep instead of
shutting down. If it stayed hot in sleep, then it would still be using as
much energy as when it was awake, which it clearly isn't. Near enough all
the energy that comes out the battery ends up as heat. Since in sleep the
only component receiving power is the refresh circuitry of the RAM, the
amount of energy leaving the battery (and hence heat in the laptop) is
minimal.
Pete
Peter Verdon
> Peter Renzland <nom...@no.mail> wrote:
>> As you can see, maximum drain is about 80 times as much as sleep.
>> Thus, if it takes you 3 minutes to reboot, you can get 4 hours of sleep
>> for that energy.
> The other way round; if you power down the Mac for 6 hours (which is
> less time than I'd have it down for overnight) then you make a clear
> gain over sleeping it.
Yup. So, if your only priority is minimising power use (which I suggest it
rarely is) then your most efficient plan is to shut down for intervals of
over four hours, and sleep for periods under four hours. Of course, this
assumes that you know how long it will be before you need your computer
again.
Pete
Peter Verdon
> Joel Farris <this....@valid.address> wrote:
>> I can't tell you how sad it makes me inside (do i really need therapy?)
>> when I'm at a coffee shop and people are looking for a power outlet
> If these people are using Windows laptops, they may only have an hour or
> so of real-world battery use.
My Windows[1] laptop had about half an hour of useful battery life. Not an
entirely fair comparison, though, as it was an extremely cheap and shitty
Windows[1] laptop.
Pete
[1] Actually, though it retained a partition of Windows ME[2] for those are
times that only Windows would do, it spent most of its working life in
Linux.
[2] The operating system named after a disease.
Peter Hayes
Peter Ceresole
> Yup. So, if your only priority is minimising power use (which I suggest it
> rarely is) then your most efficient plan is to shut down for intervals of
> over four hours, and sleep for periods under four hours. Of course, this
> assumes that you know how long it will be before you need your computer
> again.
Oh yes. None of this is precision engineering.
For me, it's the uncertainty that wins out. *If* I know am going to be
using the TiBook away from handy power, I just prefer to feel that it'll
fall over a late as possible. Nothing feels so stupid as having your
laptop run out of juice.
Most of the time I am using it on a desk, so it's plugged in 24/7 and it
sleeps at night.
--
Peter
Peter Ceresole
> > I have a very hi-tech solution; I cover the flashing LED with a cloth or
> > lay a book on it.
> >
> > Do you suppose I could sell the idea to Apple?
>
> Loses its cool factor... :-)
Not if it's a nice cloth.
--
Peter
Dale J. Stephenson
> Tim Cutts <ti...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
[...]
> > But the most frequent reason I shut mine down is if I've been using it
> > in the bedroom - that damned pulsating light on the case latch seems
> > really bright with the lights off... ;-)
>
> Yes, It looks cool, but it's also a security risk.
>
Having a pulsating light in your bedroom is a security risk? If there's
someone undesirable in the bedroom to see it, I think the physical
security of the laptop is the least of your problems.
--
Dale J. Stephenson
daleste...@mac.com
Woody
And shutdown writes unsaved data to the disk, which is nice if (for
instance) the battery falls out as it did once.
--
Woody
Chris Ridd
160720041805520995%NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com, "Tim Lance"
<NotAbitOFspam*tla...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> In my very little ken quitting apps certainly does reclaim (Thoth
> especially) but ongoing stuff, not so much. Still, compared to
That's because you're not killing the big memory users, which start when you
log in and exit when you log out. eg:
PID COMMAND #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT RSHRD RSIZE VSIZE
22934 Finder 1 111 308 7.48M 37.2M 14.4M 141M
21527 System Eve 1 64 142 1.68M 6.01M 1.82M 90.8M
21117 AppleSpell 1 24 38 468K 1.13M 1.24M 35.9M
20621 UniversalA 1 64 137 732K 8.19M 1.98M 95.3M
20619 SpeechSynt 4 162 208 2.69M 10.0M 4.76M 109M
20610 SystemUISe 2 135 287 6.09M 19.1M 6.46M 114M
20609 Dock 2 121 206 3.07M 16.0M 5.32M 102M
20607 pbs 2 32 51 1.70M 1.90M 1.34M 45.9M
20601 WindowServ 2 265 765 5.79M+ 27.1M 28.8M+ 103M+
20599 loginwindo 5 196 292 4.47M 18.7M 8.64M 101M
(columns removed to avoid line wrapping.) There's nearly a gig right there.
> Classic!?!?!?!?
A slightly unreasonable comparison.
Cheers,
Chris
Peter Hayes
I don't have my laptop in my bedroom but in the living room. It was
banned from the bedroom by my better half...
The pulsating light is very obvious at night from outside, lighting up
the room with an eerie glow.
I now swing my chair round in front of it which helps The LED brightness
could be controlled by the same ambient light sensors that determine the
keyboard illumination.
--
Peter
Peter Verdon
>> pe...@seahaze.demon.co.uk (Peter Hayes) writes:
<Sleep LED>
>> > Yes, It looks cool, but it's also a security risk.
> The LED brightness could be controlled by the same ambient light sensors
> that determine the keyboard illumination.
Not with the lid closed.
Pete
Peter Hayes
Damn - you're so right... :(
--
Peter
Tim Cutts
The last Windows laptop I had had a useful battery life of about three
hours. That was a Sony Vaio. Quite nice hardware, shame about the OS.
Tim
Peter Hayes
> Wed, 14 Jul 2004 (20:30 +0100 UTC) Peter Ceresole wrote:
>
> > Jason Koesters <no....@post.ng> wrote:
> >
> >> Some people have mentioned they leave the laptop plugged in. I tend to
> >> let the battery drop to around 60 to 70% and then I plug it back in for
> >> recharging. I read something online about batteries once and that was
> >> the recommendation. Don't treat it like a NiCd or NiMH and drain it all
> >> the way to the bottom.
> >
> > PBook batteries *are* NiMH, and the best way to look after them is to
> > keep them charged to the max, as much as possible.
>
> My 2002 PB is LiON. I believe LiON has been the industry standard for
> notebooks at least since 2000.
I have an old Gateway laptop purchased in 1998. It has a LiON battery.
The machine is used mostly mains powered, ie the battery is continuously
being 'topped up'and it is still capable of running the laptop for some
time.
--
Peter
zoara
> zoara wrote:
> > Joel Farris <this....@valid.address> wrote:
>
> >> I can't tell you how sad it makes me inside (do i really need therapy?)
> >> when I'm at a coffee shop and people are looking for a power outlet
>
> > If these people are using Windows laptops, they may only have an hour or
> > so of real-world battery use.
>
> My Windows[1] laptop had about half an hour of useful battery life. Not an
> entirely fair comparison, though, as it was an extremely cheap and shitty
> Windows[1] laptop.
Why isn't it a fair comparison? The people hunting for power outlets
could be (and probably are) using cheap and shitty laptops.
-z-
--
Wierd City - where odd things happen to the order of letters.
zoara
Yes. Not all Windows laptops have crappy battery life; but not all
Windows laptops have a decent battery life, either. Apple laptops all
have at least a reasonable battery life.
Hence, "if these people are using Windows laptops, they *may* only have
an hour or so of real-world battery use."
-z-
Peter Ceresole
> > My 2002 PB is LiON. I believe LiON has been the industry standard for
> > notebooks at least since 2000.
>
> I have an old Gateway laptop purchased in 1998. It has a LiON battery.
I have an old 1996 Toshiba Satellite with a 100MHz Pentium in it. It
still works as a desktop Windoze machine of last resort- but the battery
died several years ago and I have slung it somewhere. I can't find the
handbook either. But I am quite certain that it said somewhere that the
battery was NiMH. Which is why I had that bee in my bonnet.
--
Peter
Tim Cutts
zoara <net...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>Yes. Not all Windows laptops have crappy battery life; but not all
>Windows laptops have a decent battery life, either. Apple laptops all
>have at least a reasonable battery life.
>
>Hence, "if these people are using Windows laptops, they *may* only have
>an hour or so of real-world battery use."
You're still not being fair, though - you're comparing a reasonable
quality manufacturer with a whole range, from good down to crappy. If
you're going to compare fairly, you need to look at one of the PC laptop
vendors with whom Apple are really competitive. Like Sony, for example,
or one of the other quality manufacturers.
The poor battery life is not entirely down to Windows.
Tim
Peter Verdon
Oh, I agree with that - I was always the one hunting for a power socket when
I had that machine. My point is that it's not entirely fair to compare
those machines with Apples, because Apple has no equivalent low-end
laptops. The Windows equivalent of an iBook, say, probably has battery life
better than half an hour.
Pete
zoara
> In article <1gh2mwl.1scchsp1lsukeiN%m...@privacy.net>,
> zoara <net...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >Yes. Not all Windows laptops have crappy battery life; but not all
> >Windows laptops have a decent battery life, either. Apple laptops all
> >have at least a reasonable battery life.
> >
> >Hence, "if these people are using Windows laptops, they *may* only have
> >an hour or so of real-world battery use."
> >Wierd City - where odd things happen to the order of letters.
>
> You're still not being fair, though - you're comparing a reasonable
> quality manufacturer with a whole range, from good down to crappy.
I'm not comparing anything.
What is so contentious about the statement "if these people are using
Windows laptops, they *may* only have an hour or so of real-world
battery use."? It's entirely true and doesn't contain *any* comparisons
to Apple kit. It doesn't say *all* Windows machines have this issue.
It's merely stating a probable/possible reason for people scrabbling
around for mains power in cafes...
It's beside the point that Mac users happen to be in the category of
laptop user that does not suffer from low battery life. There is *no*
Mac vs Windows argument going on here.
> If you're going to compare fairly, you need to look at one of the PC
> laptop vendors with whom Apple are really competitive. Like Sony, for
> example, or one of the other quality manufacturers.
Why would I use an example of a manufacturer whose laptops have a
*decent* battery life in order to make the point that people scrabbling
for mains power may have *lousy* battery life? That wouldn't make the
point very well, would it?
> The poor battery life is not entirely down to Windows.
I never claimed it was. I was using the generic term "Windows laptop" to
differentiate between Macs and the rest of what is commonly available.
If you're being pedantic (which is more then acceptable in
uk.comp.sys.mac) you can replace "Windows" with "Intel & Intel
compatible". My point still stands - those users scrabbling for mains
power may well be using laptops with a lousy battery life.
-z-
--
Joshua Steinberg
> So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
> sleep it?
Lotta unexpectedly strong opinions about this issue, predominantly
falling on the side of sleeping rather than shutting-down. Makes it
sound like there is a real "right answer" to the question.
Well, I shut down at the end of every day <gasp!>. Maybe several times
a day! What harm am I doing? What harm am I incurring? Convince me I
should change. The "2 minutes saved x 1000 days = years of extra time
for vacation" is preposterous, so try another argument. My startup on
iBook g4/933 with OS 10.3.4 is a minute max. I wake up, I wander over
to the computer at some point, I hit the power button, I brush my teeth,
I rub my eyes, or perhaps I just yawn, and the iBook is ready to go.
Can we hear a compelling argument? Or is the real answer, "either way
is pretty much fine"?
-- Josh
Eric Johnson
"Joshua Steinberg" <jste...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> The "2 minutes saved x 1000 days = years of extra time
> for vacation" is preposterous, so try another argument.
It isn't that at all. I'm going out the door to work.
I want to look at the weather radar to see if I can pull the top of my car.
2+ minutes saved at 8:40 am is more important and relevant. It take
approximately 2 minutes to pull the top off my car.
Hhmmmmmm.
EJ
P.S. I do favor shutting down or restarting periodically just to keep
performance at peek.
Peter Ceresole
> Well, I shut down at the end of every day <gasp!>. Maybe several times
> a day! What harm am I doing? What harm am I incurring? Convince me I
> should change.
Why should you? You're doing no harm, unless you're running on batteries
at the time and you restart more frequently than once every six hours or
so, in which case you're unnecessarily hitting the batteries.
It's more of a lifestyle choice. And since the PBooks and iBooks became
such good sleepers, it's just nice to have them alive and kicking within
five seconds, networked within ten. But the word is 'nice'. Not 'vital'.
> I hit the power button, I brush my teeth
Ansolutely right. With the Mac, you can't be too careful about your
polarisation.
--
Peter
Peter Verdon
> Rick Burton wrote:
>> So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
>> sleep it?
> Lotta unexpectedly strong opinions about this issue, predominantly
> falling on the side of sleeping rather than shutting-down. Makes it
> sound like there is a real "right answer" to the question.
>
> Well, I shut down at the end of every day <gasp!>. Maybe several times
> a day! What harm am I doing? What harm am I incurring? Convince me I
> should change.
Why? You don't sound like you want to, and it's none of my business how you
operate your computers. No, you're not doing any harm, the only argument
against turning the machine on and off is the inconvenience of waiting for
it to boot up. If you don't find this a problem, then by all means carry on
doing it. Nobody here is going to care either way.
Pete
Thomas Reed
Steinberg <jste...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> Well, I shut down at the end of every day <gasp!>. Maybe several times
> a day! What harm am I doing? What harm am I incurring? Convince me I
> should change.
No real harm, most likely. Maybe a little extra wear and tear, but not
the kind of thing that will make much difference before the machine's
completely obsolete. Dunno about the various battery arguments, as I'm
not that knowledgable on battery technology.
However, convenience is a big factor. I used to shut down every night
back when I used a desktop instead of a laptop, in the days when
desktops didn't have very good power management. Invariably, I would
often power down for the evening, only to later decide I needed
something from the computer and had to power up again.
The extra time needed to start up your computer may not make a
difference at some times, but when your spouse is tired, grumpy and
waiting for you to come to bed and turn the lights off, and you really
need to get a look at your calendar to see what time to set the alarm
for, then it's a pain.
So I guess it comes down not to the question "Why should I sleep my
machine?", but "Why do I shut it down?" Ask yourself why you shut down
your machine every night, and if you can't come up with a decent
answer, don't do it. Just put it to sleep.
--
-Thomas
Eric Johnson
"Thomas Reed" <thoma...@dont.spam.me> wrote:
> The extra time needed to start up your computer may not make a
> difference at some times, but when your spouse is tired, grumpy and
> waiting for you to come to bed and turn the lights off, and you really
> need to get a look at your calendar to see what time to set the alarm
> for, then it's a pain.
This is the real time saving advantage of sleep.
Short term savings and not long term cumulative gains..
EJ
Trooper
pe...@seahaze.demon.co.uk says...
>
> There really should be an option to turn it off, or have it very dim and
> not pulsating.
>
I totally agree, an option to turn it off is certainly necessary. For
those of us that see their machines as tools, having it constantly
crying for attention in the corner of the room is annoying. At least
the "I need a wee, I need a wee!" bouncing doc can be turned off, if
only unoffically.
--
Trooper
use...@SPAMTRAPtrooperlooper.co.uk (remove the obvious)
GamerTag: TrooperNeil
City of Heroes: Ice Trooper, Old Red, Wonderous Kevin on Victory
Peter Ceresole
> I totally agree, an option to turn it off is certainly necessary.
That option already exists. It's called a piece of paper, or a cloth, or
a book. Laid in the right place.
Of course it's not on sale at the Applestore. But don't let that stop
you.
--
Peter
Trooper
pe...@cara.demon.co.uk says...
That's a frig, not an option...
Peter Verdon
> pe...@seahaze.demon.co.uk says...
>> There really should be an option to turn it off, or have it very dim and
>> not pulsating.
> I totally agree, an option to turn it off is certainly necessary.
I'd suggest the reason it's there is because otherwise a sleeping laptop
would be indistinguishable from a turned-off one. The crucial difference
between the two is that the sleeping laptop can't be left indefinitely - if
it runs out of power it will lose the contents of memory, equivalent to
yanking the battery out while running.
Whether this is important enough to make turning off the light impossible,
I'm not sure. Certainly I can see the need for a "steady" or "dim" option -
the "breathing" doesn't bother me, but I can understand why others might
find it annoying.
Pete
Jason Koesters
powerbook's battery is so low it won't even come out of its sleep? Then
where would you be? How would you ever know if it was about to die
without a proper shutdown or if it was already turned off?
Jason
Clark Martin
pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
> Peter Renzland <nom...@no.mail> wrote:
>
> > As you can see, maximum drain is about 80 times as much as sleep.
> > Thus, if it takes you 3 minutes to reboot, you can get 4 hours of sleep
> > for that energy.
>
> The other way round; if you power down the Mac for 6 hours (which is
> less time than I'd have it down for overnight) then you make a clear
> gain over sleeping it. Not a huge gain, but then six hours is a short
> night.
If you sleep it you can keep your apps running. If you start up you
have to launch the apps again which is going to add additional startup
minutes.
And if it's asleep you have almost instant access to it when you wake
it. If you have to start up then you either sit waiting for it or you
do something else in which case you waste a few minutes of the computer
being idle while till you come back to it.
--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting
"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
Clark Martin
Tim Cutts <ti...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Except that often when Apple is compared to Windows on price it's one of
those crappy machines. Turnabout is fair play.
Peter Lee
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:27:12 -0700, Rick Burton wrote
> (in article <cd3ttv$m8k$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>):
>
> > So is it best to shutdown your PowerBook (or iBook) after each use or
> > sleep it?
> >
>
> I turn it off normally. Probably a bad Windows habit more than anything
> else. But I have had it fail to start up properly. That is more of an
> annoyance then turning it on in the morning. If it wasn't for it doing
> that every once in awhile I probably would just sleep it. I never leave
> it plugged in when I go to bed.
I expect that it just wouldn't wake because the battery was low when you
put it to sleep. 10 Seconds on charge would soon solve that.
Peter.
--
This address is never read; use
peterattheleesdotukdotnet
Antony Lacey
> > The other way round; if you power down the Mac for 6 hours (which is
> > less time than I'd have it down for overnight) then you make a clear
> > gain over sleeping it. Not a huge gain, but then six hours is a short
> > night.
>
> If you sleep it you can keep your apps running. If you start up you
> have to launch the apps again which is going to add additional startup
> minutes.
As a result of this very interesting thread, I now send my Powerbook to
sleep rather than shutting it down. It's just seems so much easier.
I guess I used to shutdown just to feel 'safe' about it, but it's been
no problem having it sleep for the last week or so, and very handy
having access to apps a few seconds after lifting the lid.
I still shutdown my desktop machine each night though - can't seem to
break that habit.
--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.
John Biltz
(in article <1ghe5qr.1qgbbn9cq7n6qN%pete...@softhome.net>):
Not the case here. Its always plugged in and charged when I turn it off.
One of those documented bugs they can't seem to fix on some machines. If
you have an external hard drive hooked up pretty much all the time it is
easier to just shut it down. If you sleep it while it is connected then
you are going to have to shut it down anyway to get the drive back so
your going to have to eject the drive and hook it back up.
PeterD
> Its always plugged in and charged when I turn it off.
> One of those documented bugs they can't seem to fix on some machines. If
> you have an external hard drive hooked up pretty much all the time it is
> easier to just shut it down. If you sleep it while it is connected then
> you are going to have to shut it down anyway to get the drive back so
> your going to have to eject the drive and hook it back up.
I have a Powerbook with external hard drives hooked up all the time. I
sleep the PB, wake it up and everything is there. I've never lost the
drive from sleeping. It sounds like some part of your setup is borked.
--
Pd
John Biltz
(in article <1ghh7xo.wiljej1tkczpcN%pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid>):
Might be because I'm running it from a USB adaptor in my card slot. But
if I forget I get a warning message about improperly disconnecting a
drive and its gone until I reboot.
Eric Johnson
1ghh7xo.wiljej1tkczpcN%pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid, "PeterD"
<pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid> wrote:
Borked is the pasted participle of an actual verb, to bork. It means to
oppose on political grounds a supreme court nominee.
ej
Peter Ceresole
> > It sounds like some part of your setup is borked.
>
>
> Borked is the pasted participle of an actual verb, to bork. It means to
> oppose on political grounds a supreme court nominee.
But that was a typo. The real spelling is 'b0rked'.
--
Peter
soothsayer
On 2004-07-25, Eric Johnson <er...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Borked is the pasted participle of an actual verb, to bork. It means to
> oppose on political grounds a supreme court nominee
who was nominated on ideological grounds rather than on the basis of
competence and judicial temperament.
For a contrasting example in which the lack of such politcal backbone
allowed a ludicrously incompetent and utterly ideological nominee to
be appointed rather than rejected, see Clarence "Nino's lapdog"
Thomas. What's the verb for that?
Eric Johnson
<sss...@speakit.net> wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.portables.]
>
> On 2004-07-25, Eric Johnson <er...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> Borked is the pasted participle of an actual verb, to bork. It means to
>> oppose on political grounds a supreme court nominee
>
> who was nominated on ideological grounds rather than on the basis of
> competence and judicial temperament.
See what I mean?
soothsayer
Yes Eric, we see. We understood from your first post that the "right"
ideology (so to speak) is all that matters to you. Borkers are easy
to recognize that way.
PeterD
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 03:30:12 -0700, PeterD wrote
> (in article <1ghh7xo.wiljej1tkczpcN%pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid>):
>
> > John Biltz <bilt...@cox.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> If you have an external hard drive hooked up pretty much all the time
> >> it is easier to just shut it down. If you sleep it while it is
> >> connected then you are going to have to shut it down anyway to get the
> >> drive back so your going to have to eject the drive and hook it back
> >> up.
> >
> > I have a Powerbook with external hard drives hooked up all the time. I
> > sleep the PB, wake it up and everything is there. I've never lost the
> > drive from sleeping. It sounds like some part of your setup is borked.
>
> Might be because I'm running it from a USB adaptor in my card slot. But
> if I forget I get a warning message about improperly disconnecting a
> drive and its gone until I reboot.
Ah. USB, waddya expect. USB is a flakey beast.
USB - the new SCSI.
--
Pd
PeterD
Peter Ceresole
> Ah. USB, waddya expect. USB is a flakey beast.
> USB - the new SCSI.
I liked SCSI. Used it with no problems at all on a number of old-style
Macs, and indirectly on a large number of Avid systems.
I agree that USB has its moments, although they are a lot fewer and
farther between than they used to be in OS9.something- although the
9.2.2 drivers were okay.
--
Peter
John Biltz
(in article <1ghi07x.wwcm841fgj36uN%pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid>):
> John Biltz <bilt...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 03:30:12 -0700, PeterD wrote
>> (in article <1ghh7xo.wiljej1tkczpcN%pd....@dsl.pipex.invalid>):
>>
>>> John Biltz <bilt...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> If you have an external hard drive hooked up pretty much all the time
>>>> it is easier to just shut it down. If you sleep it while it is
>>>> connected then you are going to have to shut it down anyway to get the
>>>> drive back so your going to have to eject the drive and hook it back
>>>> up.
>>>
>>> I have a Powerbook with external hard drives hooked up all the time. I
>>> sleep the PB, wake it up and everything is there. I've never lost the
>>> drive from sleeping. It sounds like some part of your setup is borked.
>>
>> Might be because I'm running it from a USB adaptor in my card slot. But
>> if I forget I get a warning message about improperly disconnecting a
>> drive and its gone until I reboot.
>
> Ah. USB, waddya expect. USB is a flakey beast.
> USB - the new SCSI.
>
>
So your using firewire? My new one is both and usually I hook it up
firewire. But that one I hook up, do what needs to be done and unhook it.
Its my main archive and I limit its exposure. The other one is my
workhorse and it is USB only. My computer is a 1 gig Ti and is USB 1.1.
So I run a USB 2.0 adapter in my card slot that works real well. Wonder
if it is the adapter or just USB in general that causes the problem.
Jon B
Not here, just sleep all them too, great just being able to come home
hit the space bar and realise oh bugger this is Derbyshire and we've had
another powercut. But except for the odd one of those my machines been
put to sleep everynight for the past 12months without a hitch, same
benefits of waking it up and just being able to go from where you left
off, the light on the G4 is a bit brighter though. Handy like lask week,
getting ready to leave the house last week, just slept computer, mate
rings, you online? nope, hitting space, but I am now...finds what he
wants and 30seconds later back out the door again machine sleeping
--
Jon
Remove "usenetspam" from address above to reply
Peter Ceresole
> My computer is a 1 gig Ti and is USB 1.1.
> So I run a USB 2.0 adapter in my card slot that works real well. Wonder
> if it is the adapter or just USB in general that causes the problem.
No telling, of course, but the adapter sounds a good candidate for
blame. USB *ought* to be okay in 10.
--
Peter