Migrating Windows user to Mac OS X on a MacBook Pro.
ANT...@zimage.com
I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
(notebooks/laptops and desktops):
1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
exists for Mac OS X.
2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
(mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
and IE6.
4. Shopping online.
5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
stuff via USB.
6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
from 2001 or so?).
10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
my old PowerBook G4.
12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
Prices isn't an issue either. I assume a MacBook Pro is enough to be
light and small for lots of travelling around the world.
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
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\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )
Jamie Kahn Genet
> Hello.
>
> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>
> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
> exists for Mac OS X.
No problem there - Office 2008 for Mac is fine software, though I
personally prefer Apple's iWork package (WP, spreadsheet, presentation).
If he needs database software I'd suggest Filemaker Inc's Bento or
Filemaker apps as MS Office for Mac does not include Access.
> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
IME?
OSX includes support for the following languages:
* Chinese (Simplified)
* Chinese (Traditional)
* Czech
* Danish
* Dutch
* English (United States)
* Finnish
* French
* French (Canada)
* German
* Icelandic
* Italian
* Japanese
* Korean
* Norwegian
* Polish
* Portuguese (Brazil)
* Portuguese (Portugal)
* Russian
* Spanish (Spain)
* Spanish (Latin America)
* Swedish
> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
> and IE6.
All Macs include built-in 802.11n WiFi and OSX comes with Safari which
is a very decent web browser. I also like the third party web browsers
Camino and iCab.
> 4. Shopping online.
I'm unaware of any remaining major online stores dumb enough to limit
their use to Windows MSIE.
> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
> stuff via USB.
<http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos.php>
> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
Naturally iTunes exists for MacOS X. After all - it is Apple software.
So no hassles there.
> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
OSX comes with QuickTime and DVD Player. For wider compatibility I'd
install the free Perian QuickTime component. See
<http://perian.org/#detail> for more details.
> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
That's MacOS IMHO :-) Nevertheless I'd suggest one of the Missing Manual
books by David Pogue. There's even one specifically for switchers.
> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
> from 2001 or so?).
A driver for this printer is included on the Leopard install DVD. You
will have to perform a custom install of older Epson drivers, but that's
no hassle.
> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
OSX includes Filevault <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filevault> which
can encrypt entire user accounts. However I prefer to use encrypted disk
images to store sensitive information on my Macs, as it's less dangerous
from a disaster recovery POV than having your entire user account
encrypted.
Plus there's no Mac viruses or malware worth worrying about at this
stage, nor has there been in OSX's ten year history.
> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
> my old PowerBook G4.
*blink* I don't think that can be right, but I started using OSX on a
regular basis beginning with 10.3 which can burn CD and DVDs just fine.
> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
Buy a portable USB hub if necessary. They're dirt cheap.
> Prices isn't an issue either. I assume a MacBook Pro is enough to be
> light and small for lots of travelling around the world.
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
The 15" model is certainly very luggable :-)
HTH,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent version of OSX. You
just need to perform a custom install :-)
Chris Ridd
Genet) said:
> <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>
> IME?
Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
OS X supports a number of Input Methods. According to System
Preferences > International > Input Menu they are:
Unicode
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
You'd really need to talk to someone who used that stuff to find out
how effective they were.
>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>> my old PowerBook G4.
>
> *blink* I don't think that can be right, but I started using OSX on a
> regular basis beginning with 10.3 which can burn CD and DVDs just fine.
I burned stuff on 10.2 just fine - you just had to have a Mac with the
hardware. Weren't there issues with Apple/iDVD not supporting non-Apple
drives way back then?
Cheers,
Chris
Ant
> Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
>> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
>> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
>> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
>> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
>
> Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent version of OSX. You
> just need to perform a custom install :-)
Um, custom install? Doesn't OS X come preinstalled?
--
"Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith, keeping it awake and
moving." --Fredrick Beuchner
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
Ant
>>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>>
>> IME?
>
> Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
> characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
>
> OS X supports a number of Input Methods. According to System Preferences
> > International > Input Menu they are:
>
> Unicode
> Japanese
> Simplified Chinese
> Traditional Chinese
>
> You'd really need to talk to someone who used that stuff to find out how
> effective they were.
That's the hard part. Who? I don't know anyone who does this. Do you
know where online I can ask? Are there any people who does English and
Asians?
>>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>>> my old PowerBook G4.
>>
>> *blink* I don't think that can be right, but I started using OSX on a
>> regular basis beginning with 10.3 which can burn CD and DVDs just fine.
>
> I burned stuff on 10.2 just fine - you just had to have a Mac with the
> hardware. Weren't there issues with Apple/iDVD not supporting non-Apple
> drives way back then?
Hmm, I don't remember seeing iDVD in 10.2.8. Was that preinstalled? I
know there is DVD player.
--
"Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith, keeping it awake and
moving." --Fredrick Beuchner
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
> Based on his usage, I'd say he'd probably be more comfortable with the
> XP environment. He _could_ get an Intel Macintosh and run XP on it, but
> most of the value of a Mac comes from running MacOS X. He'll likely be
> disappointed by either having to change how he does things from XP to
> MacOS X or not being able to do things outright (and having to run XP to
> substitute).
How easy is it to run Windows in MacOS? Again, he's not an expert. He
never used VMware and things like that.
> 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, and 11 shouldn't be a problem.
>
> 2 might be an issue. MacOS X is very popular in foreign countries
> because it's so universal but I have no idea how transparent it's
> international capabilities are. Twinbridge has MacOS X fonts but MacOS
> X already comes with Chinese, Korean, Thai, Arabic, and Cyrillic fonts.
> What does Twinbridge give him other than the fonts? If he really needs
> the Twinbridge OCR software, he may be able to run in a virtual XP on
> Parallels or Fusion. That's an additional cost of an XP license plus
> the virtualization software plus running an XP environment in parallel
> with MacOS X. He may not like that extra cost.
>
> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32243
> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29555
>
> 5 synch with Palm requires Missing Synch for Palm. Up until the iPhone,
> MacOS X played catch up or "we don't do 3rd-party hardware" and left
> such things to 3rd-party companies.
>
> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19749
>
> If he dumps the Palm and gets and iPhone, all that goes away and it
> "just works".
>
> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
>
> 12 is a function of the system he buys. If he gets a tower and buys PCI
> USB 2.0 cards (4 external ports per card), he'll have lots of ports.
> These cards are cheap ($30 or so) but the tower isn't (starts at $2799).
> The laptops ($1099-$1999), Mac Mini ($599 with no monitor or keyboard),
> and iMac (starts at $1199) all come with 2 USB and 2 Firewire ports.
> Hubs may work for some of his peripherals, but some may be really picky
> and require being plugged directly into a hardwired port.
I forgot to mention that this is only a notebook/laptop requirement, not
desktop.
> Overall, unless this guy has an overriding reason to switch, I suggest
> he stay with what he's got. If you recommend he switches, you'll be
> supporting him and all his issues until he gets comfortable. And there
> will be issues.
Well, he asked if he should get one. He could, but I don't have time to
help with every problems. I know Apple is supposed to be easy to use but
his requirements is complex what he does. ;)
--
"Applied mathematics will always need pure mathematics, just as
anteaters will always need ants." --Paul Halmos
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
>> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
>> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
>> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
>> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>>
>> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
>> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
>> exists for Mac OS X.
>
> No problem there - Office 2008 for Mac is fine software, though I
> personally prefer Apple's iWork package (WP, spreadsheet, presentation).
> If he needs database software I'd suggest Filemaker Inc's Bento or
> Filemaker apps as MS Office for Mac does not include Access.
AFAIK, he uses Word, PowerPoint, and Excel.
>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>
> IME?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.mspx
-- Input Method Editor.
You mean custom install of OS (aka reinstall) instead of using
preinstall one?
>
>> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
>> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
>> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
>
> OSX includes Filevault <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filevault> which
> can encrypt entire user accounts. However I prefer to use encrypted disk
> images to store sensitive information on my Macs, as it's less dangerous
> from a disaster recovery POV than having your entire user account
> encrypted.
>
> Plus there's no Mac viruses or malware worth worrying about at this
> stage, nor has there been in OSX's ten year history.
>
>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>> my old PowerBook G4.
>
> *blink* I don't think that can be right, but I started using OSX on a
> regular basis beginning with 10.3 which can burn CD and DVDs just fine.
>
>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>
> Buy a portable USB hub if necessary. They're dirt cheap.
>
>> Prices isn't an issue either. I assume a MacBook Pro is enough to be
>> light and small for lots of travelling around the world.
>>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> The 15" model is certainly very luggable :-)
>
> HTH,
> Jamie Kahn Genet
Thanks. :)
--
"The little ant at its hole is full of courage." --African
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
>> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
>> stuff via USB.
>
> <http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos.php>
Is it safe to Hotsynch between multiple computers like Mac OS X and a PC
Windows? Or does he have to stick with one computers? I don't know if
both programs use different methods to HotSynch datas (PDA overrides
computers').
--
"What reason, like the careful ant, draws laboriously together, the wind
of accident sometimes collects in a moment." --Friedrich von Schiller
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Jim Gibson
<chri...@mac.com> wrote:
> On 2008-06-19 09:36:29 +0100, jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn
> Genet) said:
>
> > <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> >
> >> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
> >> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
> >> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
> >> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
> >> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
> >
> > IME?
>
> Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
> characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
Perhaps it is Instant Messaging something?. Microsoft Office 2008 for
Mac comes with Microsoft Messenger (I don't use it.)
--
Jim Gibson
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On 6/19/2008 1:36 AM PT, Jamie Kahn Genet typed:
>
> > Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
> >> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
> >> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
> >> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
> >> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
> >
> > Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent versions of OSX. You
> > just need to perform a custom install :-)
>
> Um, custom install? Doesn't OS X come preinstalled?
It does, but not with everything installed by default. Stuff like older
printer drivers are left out of the standard installation.
Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
ANT...@zimage.com
>> >> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
>> >> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
>> >> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
>> >> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
>> >
>> > Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent versions of OSX. You
>> > just need to perform a custom install :-)
>>
>> Um, custom install? Doesn't OS X come preinstalled?
>
> It does, but not with everything installed by default. Stuff like older
> printer drivers are left out of the standard installation.
Ah. So does it work like Windows? Hook up the old USB printer, have Mac
OS X detect the connected device, ask for driver (find it on DVD), etc.?
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
ANT...@zimage.com
>> >> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>> >> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>> >> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>> >> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>> >
>> > IME?
>>
>> Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
>> characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
>
> Perhaps it is Instant Messaging something?. Microsoft Office 2008 for
> Mac comes with Microsoft Messenger (I don't use it.)
No. He doesn't use IM or chat. IME is Input Method Editor that is in
Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.mspx
...
Jamie Kahn Genet
> >> >> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
> >> >> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
> >> >> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
> >> >> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
> >> >> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
> >> >
> >> > Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent versions of OSX. You
> >> > just need to perform a custom install :-)
> >>
> >> Um, custom install? Doesn't OS X come preinstalled?
> >
> > It does, but not with everything installed by default. Stuff like older
> > printer drivers are left out of the standard installation.
>
> Ah. So does it work like Windows? Hook up the old USB printer, have Mac
> OS X detect the connected device, ask for driver (find it on DVD), etc.?
Not quite like that. You'll need to install the right driver yourself.
OSX won't prompt you.
Jim Gibson
> On 2008-06-19 09:36:29 +0100, jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn
> Genet) said:
>
> > <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> >
> >> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
> >> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
> >> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
> >> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
> >> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
> >
> > IME?
>
> Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
> characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
Perhaps it is Instant Messaging something?. Microsoft Office 2008 for
Mac comes with Microsoft Messenger (I don't use it.)
--
Jim Gibson
ANT...@zimage.com
OK, so I need to install driver from OS X first, then connect the
printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like in
Windows?
ANT...@zimage.com
>> >> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>> >> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>> >> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>> >> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>> >
>> > IME?
>>
>> Input Method Er something? Probably a way to enter funny foreign
>> characters on a different (US in this case) keyboard.
>
> Perhaps it is Instant Messaging something?. Microsoft Office 2008 for
> Mac comes with Microsoft Messenger (I don't use it.)
IME is Input Method Editor that is in Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.mspx
...
heron stone
wrote:
> OK, so I need to install driver from OS X first, then connect the
> printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like in
> Windows?
.it depends upon the driver mfr
.my epson drivers do all that
.get the driver from the mfr download sight
--
unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:her...@gendo.net
Ant
>>> OK, so I need to install driver from OS X first, then connect the
>>> printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like in
>>> Windows?
>> .it depends upon the driver mfr
>> .my epson drivers do all that
>>
>> .get the driver from the mfr download sight
>
> There is none on the mfr's site. They've discontinued the driver.
> Others say "it's in the Additional Printers package", but I didn't see
> it on my 10.4 DVD.
>
> Anyway, printers are cheap. If it doesn't work, buy one that does.
>
> This guy sounds like he's going to be a PITA to support. Are you sure
> you want to go there?
Yeah, this is not like he is going to be using it as if he was doing
basic stuff. :(
--
"You know what you are Earl? You're a little, tiny, busy ant. You too,
Mike. Both you guys, with your mortgages and your term life insurance
and your webber kettles(??). Ant. Ant. All of you, you're all a bunch of
little, busy, blind ants. All you all. Saving up for your rainy days.
Scratching up your acorns for the winter. You look at me and you think,
"What a piece of pathetic trash out there in that leaky trailer." No
spoon, no fork, no prospects. But, you know why? Cause I'm a
grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant. Grasshopper. Ant.
Grasshopper. Ant!" --Chris in the bar, before being thrown out in "Jaws
of Life"."
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In comp.sys.mac.apps Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >> >> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
> >> >> >> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't
> >> >> >> see drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple
> >> >> >> attitude is "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So,
> >> >> >> this printer is essentially a doorstop or will have to be used
> >> >> >> through virtual XP.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Wrong. Drivers for this printer come with recent versions of OSX. You
> >> >> > just need to perform a custom install :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Um, custom install? Doesn't OS X come preinstalled?
> >> >
> >> > It does, but not with everything installed by default. Stuff like older
> >> > printer drivers are left out of the standard installation.
> >>
> >> Ah. So does it work like Windows? Hook up the old USB printer, have Mac
> >> OS X detect the connected device, ask for driver (find it on DVD), etc.?
> >
> > Not quite like that. You'll need to install the right driver yourself.
> > OSX won't prompt you.
>
> OK, so I need to install driver from OS X first, then connect the
> printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like in
> Windows?
The Epson Stylus 740 (one of the first Mac compatible USB printers - I
bought one with my first CRT iMac and used it up till a couple years ago
with 8.6, 10.3 and 10.4) and R210 (my current Inkjet) drivers do, so I'd
be surprised if the 785EPX driver didn't do the same.
HTH,
Jamie Kahn Genet
Ant
>>> OK, so I need to install driver from OS X first, then connect the
>>> printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like in
>>> Windows?
>> .it depends upon the driver mfr
>> .my epson drivers do all that
>>
>> .get the driver from the mfr download sight
>
> There is none on the mfr's site. They've discontinued the driver.
> Others say "it's in the Additional Printers package", but I didn't see
> it on my 10.4 DVD.
>
> Anyway, printers are cheap. If it doesn't work, buy one that does.
How about HP Photosmart 8450 drivers (a few years old)? I am looking at
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=219&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=402150
... it seems like there is no 10.5 drivers and will use the ones from OS
X 10.5 DVD. Can anyone please kindly confirm check it on theirs?
--
"Don't stop to stomp ants when the elephants are stampeding." --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
>>>>> printer. Does the driver show inks left, cleaning tools, etc. like
>>>>> in Windows?
>>>> .it depends upon the driver mfr
>>>> .my epson drivers do all that
>>>>
>>>> .get the driver from the mfr download sight
>>>
>>> Others say "it's in the Additional Printers package", but I didn't
>>> see it on my 10.4 DVD.
>>>
>>> Anyway, printers are cheap. If it doesn't work, buy one that does.
>>>
>>> sure you want to go there?
Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
--
"Where the sugar is, there will the ant be also." --Philippines
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Richard Maine
> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
There are 2 products like that. One of them not only is like VMWare, it
*IS* VMWare. The other is Parallels. They are competing products and
both work well (I own copies of both), although as with any competing
products, you will find people who prefer one or the other. (My current
slight preference is VMWare, but I consider them both good products).
The answers to all of your questions except for the last one are "yes".
But no, OS X does not come with either of them. They are separate
commercial products that you can purchase. Note that you would also need
to purchase a copy of Windows. You might be able to find Windows bundled
with VMWare or Parallels, but it isn't directly part of either VMWare or
Parallels.
--
Richard Maine | Good judgement comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
Chris Ridd
> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
Yes, it is quite like VMware Fusion and VirtualBox.
> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
Yes.
> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
No, Parallels is third-party software that isn't supplied by Apple.
Cheers,
Chris
Ant
>> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
>> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
>> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
>> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
>
> There are 2 products like that. One of them not only is like VMWare, it
> *IS* VMWare. The other is Parallels. They are competing products and
> both work well (I own copies of both), although as with any competing
> products, you will find people who prefer one or the other. (My current
> slight preference is VMWare, but I consider them both good products).
>
> The answers to all of your questions except for the last one are "yes".
> But no, OS X does not come with either of them. They are separate
> commercial products that you can purchase. Note that you would also need
> to purchase a copy of Windows. You might be able to find Windows bundled
> with VMWare or Parallels, but it isn't directly part of either VMWare or
> Parallels.
I do have the original Windows 98 (who wants that?), 2000 (works but
old), and XP Pro. CDs. So how well, do tye hardware work? Let's say Mac
OS X doesn't support the printer but Windows can, will it work in
Windows guest image? How are the speeds on Mac OS X. I am going to
assume lots of RAM are needed like on PCs (e.g., 1 GB of RAM on host is
not good for XP guest (256 MB of RAM) with VMware v5.5.6).
--
"You'd think we could just attract ants like normal people." --Wolverine
(X-Men:TAS)
Ant
> On 2008-06-21 06:48:09 +0100, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> said:
>
>> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
>> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
>
> Yes, it is quite like VMware Fusion and VirtualBox.
Hmm, I should use VirtualBox since it is free. I have used it under
Linux but only for software testings and not for serious work like
Office, typing, print outs, etc.
>> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
>
> Yes.
>
>> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
>
> No, Parallels is third-party software that isn't supplied by Apple.
Thanks.
--
"Hey dad, look. I put honey on my back, and now the ants are carrying me
home." --Chris from Family Guy
Chris Ridd
> Hmm, I should use VirtualBox since it is free. I have used it under
> Linux but only for software testings and not for serious work like
> Office, typing, print outs, etc.
I'm using it on an OpenSolaris host, and it is fine for running
*32-bit* guests. If you want or need 64-bit guests, then you will need
VMware Fusion instead.
Definitely give it a try though.
Cheers,
Chris
Ant
Nah, I doubt he will need 64-bit since he used 32-bit Windows. Is it
pretty easy to setup, install, upgrade, and maintain VirtualBox on it? I
recalled having to get drivers and dependencies in Linux/Debian. :(
--
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless
aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of
neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons,
they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants,
page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson
Richard Maine
> On 6/20/2008 11:16 PM PT, Chris Ridd typed:
>
> > On 2008-06-21 06:48:09 +0100, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> said:
> >
> >> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
> >> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
> >
> > Yes, it is quite like VMware Fusion and VirtualBox.
>
> Hmm, I should use VirtualBox since it is free.
Well, presumably no harm in trying it out, but... I hadn't happened to
run into that particular product before, so I googled it. It took
approximately 2 minutes, starting from nothing other than the product
name, to discover that, while it might do for some things, the free
version seems to lack support for things that you specifically mentioned
needing. In particular, USB support is said to be absent on the free
version. That's going to make it hard to use those USB printers you
mentioned.
Chris Ridd
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, I should use VirtualBox since it is free.
>
> Well, presumably no harm in trying it out, but... I hadn't happened to
> run into that particular product before, so I googled it. It took
> approximately 2 minutes, starting from nothing other than the product
> name, to discover that, while it might do for some things, the free
> version seems to lack support for things that you specifically mentioned
> needing. In particular, USB support is said to be absent on the free
> version. That's going to make it hard to use those USB printers you
> mentioned.
There's a version containing closed source which is free for personal
use, and a version which is only open source which is free for all.
Which version couldn't do USB?
Cheers
Chris
Ant
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2008 11:16 PM PT, Chris Ridd typed:
>>
>>> On 2008-06-21 06:48:09 +0100, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
>>>> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
>>> Yes, it is quite like VMware Fusion and VirtualBox.
>> Hmm, I should use VirtualBox since it is free.
>
> Well, presumably no harm in trying it out, but... I hadn't happened to
> run into that particular product before, so I googled it. It took
> approximately 2 minutes, starting from nothing other than the product
> name, to discover that, while it might do for some things, the free
> version seems to lack support for things that you specifically mentioned
> needing. In particular, USB support is said to be absent on the free
> version. That's going to make it hard to use those USB printers you
> mentioned.
Serious? I thought it had USB support. Dang it.
--
"He who storms in like a whirlwind returns like an ant." --Borneo
Calum
>
> Serious? I thought it had USB support. Dang it.
It does. The USB bits aren't open source, but the application is still
free (as in beer) for personal use.
Ant
Um, what do you mean by USB bits? I thought USB was open source? If USB
wasn't, then how did Linux and others get USB to work?
--
Gregory Weston
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 6/23/2008 5:31 AM PT, Calum typed:
>
> > Ant wrote:
> >>
> >> Serious? I thought it had USB support. Dang it.
> >
> > It does. The USB bits aren't open source, but the application is still
> > free (as in beer) for personal use.
>
> Um, what do you mean by USB bits? I thought USB was open source? If USB
> wasn't, then how did Linux and others get USB to work?
USB is not open, but closed doesn't necessarily mean undocumented. The
licensing on USB applies to hardware. It's in Intel's interest to
support adoption by the software community because it increases the
incentive for hardware vendors to buy licenses.
--
"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?"
- Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix
Ant
>>>> Serious? I thought it had USB support. Dang it.
>>> It does. The USB bits aren't open source, but the application is still
>>> free (as in beer) for personal use.
>> Um, what do you mean by USB bits? I thought USB was open source? If USB
>> wasn't, then how did Linux and others get USB to work?
> USB is not open, but closed doesn't necessarily mean undocumented. The
> licensing on USB applies to hardware. It's in Intel's interest to
> support adoption by the software community because it increases the
> incentive for hardware vendors to buy licenses.
Ah interesting. Thanks. :)
--
"As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of
men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior
of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she
is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain
Ant
> >> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
> >> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
> >> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
> >
> > There are 2 products like that. One of them not only is like VMWare, it
> > *IS* VMWare. The other is Parallels. They are competing products and
> > both work well (I own copies of both), although as with any competing
> > products, you will find people who prefer one or the other. (My current
> > slight preference is VMWare, but I consider them both good products).
> >
> > The answers to all of your questions except for the last one are "yes".
> > But no, OS X does not come with either of them. They are separate
> > commercial products that you can purchase. Note that you would also need
> > to purchase a copy of Windows. You might be able to find Windows bundled
> > with VMWare or Parallels, but it isn't directly part of either VMWare or
> > Parallels.
> I do have the original Windows 98 (who wants that?), 2000 (works but
> old), and XP Pro. CDs. So how well, do the hardware work? Let's say Mac
> OS X doesn't support the printer but Windows can, will it work in
> Windows guest image? How are the speeds on Mac OS X. I am going to
> assume lots of RAM are needed like on PCs (e.g., 1 GB of RAM on host is
> not good for XP guest (256 MB of RAM) with VMware v5.5.6).
I never got a reply on this. :(
--
"They are like the ant... They start one way and turn around and go the
other way... They look all the time at the ground and never see the
sky." --Davi Kopenawa Yanomami, Amazonian Indian (Newsweek 117(17):5,
1991)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
AntDude
each OS access the other drives directly?
On Jun 18, 6:16 pm, ANT...@zimage.com wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>
> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
> exists for Mac OS X.
> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
> and IE6.
> 4. Shopping online.
> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
> stuff via USB.
> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
> from 2001 or so?).
> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
> my old PowerBook G4.
> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>
> Prices isn't an issue either. I assume a MacBook Pro is enough to be
> light and small for lots of travelling around the world.
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
Ant
>>>>> Question: I was told about parallel feature that lets people run Windows
>>>>> XP. How well does this work? Is it like VMware and VirtualBox? Can it be
>>>>> run in a windowed, share between host and guest, copy and paste between
>>>>> guest and host, fast, etc.? Does Mac OS X come with Parallel?
>>>>
>>>> There are 2 products like that. One of them not only is like VMWare, it
>>>> *IS* VMWare. The other is Parallels. They are competing products and
>>>> both work well (I own copies of both), although as with any competing
>>>> products, you will find people who prefer one or the other. (My current
>>>> slight preference is VMWare, but I consider them both good products).
>>>>
>>>> The answers to all of your questions except for the last one are "yes".
>>>> But no, OS X does not come with either of them. They are separate
>>>> commercial products that you can purchase. Note that you would also need
>>>> to purchase a copy of Windows. You might be able to find Windows bundled
>>>> with VMWare or Parallels, but it isn't directly part of either VMWare or
>>>> Parallels.
>>> I do have the original Windows 98 (who wants that?), 2000 (works but
>>> old), and XP Pro. CDs. So how well, do the hardware work? Let's say Mac
>>> OS X doesn't support the printer but Windows can, will it work in
>>> Windows guest image? How are the speeds on Mac OS X. I am going to
>>> assume lots of RAM are needed like on PCs (e.g., 1 GB of RAM on host is
>>> not good for XP guest (256 MB of RAM) with VMware v5.5.6).
>> I never got a reply on this. :(
>
> In answer to your question. If Windows supports your client's printers,
> they should work fine even if Mac OS X doesn't. That being said,
> printers are a commodity item so it would be easier and more convenient
> to simply replace those printers with a model that works on both Mac OS
> X and Windows.
Thanks, yes Windows does support the old USB and parallel port printers
(forgot to mention a SuperNEC 870 and HP LaserJet <something model>
laser printers as well) my client has. I assume other devices like mice,
USB Flash sticks, HDDs, etc. will work as well.
How about the other questions for speed, memory usage (is default 2 GB
enough when multitasking?), etc.
--
"What is that?" "Some kind of insect?" "It's an ant." "Girl, you needed
an exterminator. She had ants on her face." "Well, these aren't your
garden-variety dumpster ants." "And they aren't ... to decomp." "Why are
they in her stomach?" "La hormiga culona--leaf cutter ants. It's a
Colombian dish." "Are you saying that people eat them?" "Fried." "Okay,
so we are looking for a club that serves fried ants." --CSI: Miami
(Wannabe episode; #218)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
heron stone
> > enough when multitasking?), etc.
>
> etc.).
.yes, but 4 GB really makes it hum
less HD access
more battery life
Hugh Gibbons
ANT...@zimage.com (Ant) wrote:
> > I do have the original Windows 98 (who wants that?), 2000 (works but
> > old), and XP Pro. CDs. So how well, do the hardware work? Let's say Mac
> > OS X doesn't support the printer but Windows can, will it work in
> > Windows guest image?
Yes, but I doubt you have a printer that will plug into a USB port and
won't work under Mac OS X. That would be a rare find these days.
> > How are the speeds on Mac OS X.
Loading Parallels will definitely impede your Mac performance, but maybe
not much worse than Windows will. The more RAM you have, the less
severe this will be. Under Boot Camp, your computer becomes a Windows
PC, not an emulated PC, but you have to reboot to switch OS. Which is
more effective for you depends on how you want to use your computer.
> I am going to
> > assume lots of RAM are needed like on PCs (e.g., 1 GB of RAM on host is
> > not good for XP guest (256 MB of RAM) with VMware v5.5.6).
>
> I never got a reply on this. :(
I don't know about that. Just don't load Vista with less than 1GB or it
will bring your computer to a virtual halt. I don't know if it even
works under Parallels. XP works acceptably.
Hugh Gibbons
<e59c61d5-0618-4f78...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
AntDude <ant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5), can
> each OS access the other drives directly?
No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac partition.
(Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac OS X 10.5?). You
can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is readable and writable by
both systems. I have a FAT32 partition for moving files back and forth,
but not on my boot drive. It's on a removable drive firewire drive.
Other than that, given the usage model I see below, I don't see any
reason your client would want to keep Windows, other than familiarity.
Mac OS X does all that stuff acceptably, except maybe for supporting the
third party applications on his Treo. Palm supports Treos on Mac OS X.
I would copy all his user files to Mac OS as a first step.
The best thing your client will like about Mac OS X is not getting his
system crammed with viruses and spyware and other malwares like Norton
and Mc-a-Fee. That alone will eventually push him to boot Windows as
rarely as possible, and he'll probably eventually remove it from his
system unless he's got some needed (or cherished) Windows-only program
you haven't mentioned.
Ant
>> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5), can
>> each OS access the other drives directly?
>
> No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
> partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac partition.
> (Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac OS X 10.5?). You
> can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is readable and writable by
> both systems. I have a FAT32 partition for moving files back and forth,
> but not on my boot drive. It's on a removable drive firewire drive.
OK, I will have to point that out to him then. Thanks. I thought Mac OS
X would be able to handle NTFS (read and write) by now. I guess not. :(
--
"... Hey. Could we do that again? I know we haven't met, but I don't
want to be an ant. You know? I mean, it's like we go through life with
our antennae bouncing off one another, continously on ant autopilot,
with nothing really human required of us. 'Stop.' 'Go.' 'Walk here.'
'Drive there.' All action basically for survival. All communication
simply to keep this ant colony buzzing along in an efficient, polite
manner. 'Here's your change.' 'Paper or plastic?' 'Credit or debit?"'
'You want ketchup with that' I don't want a straw. I want real human
moments. I want to see you. I want you to see me. I don't want to give
that up. I don't want to be ant, you know?" "Yeah... yeah I know. I
don't want to be an ant either. Thanks for kinda, like, josteling me
there... I've been kinda on zombie autopilot lately. I don't feel like
an ant in my head, but I guess I probably look like one..." --Waking
Life movie.
Ant
>>> How about the other questions for speed, memory usage (is default 2 GB
>>> enough when multitasking?), etc.
>> 2GB should be ok for the typical user (i.e., web surfing, MS Office,
>> etc.).
>
> .yes, but 4 GB really makes it hum
> less HD access
> more battery life
If 4 GB the maximum memory on MacBook Pro? And can my client tell an
Apple retail store or university bookstore to max out the RAM before
purchasing? I know online apple.com lets you customize, but not sure how
store part works.
--
"At high tide the fish eat ants; at low tide the ants eat fish." --Thai
Proverb
Chris Ridd
> On 7/7/2008 8:55 PM PT, Hugh Gibbons typed:
>
>>> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5), can
>>> each OS access the other drives directly?
>>
>> No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
>> partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac partition.
>> (Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac OS X 10.5?).
>> You can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is readable and
>> writable by both systems. I have a FAT32 partition for moving files
>> back and forth, but not on my boot drive. It's on a removable drive
>> firewire drive.
>
> OK, I will have to point that out to him then. Thanks. I thought Mac OS
> X would be able to handle NTFS (read and write) by now. I guess not. :(
No, it just uses the Linux code for handling NTFS, so there's no write
support.
Paragon sells "NTFS for Mac" if you desperately need this functionality.
<http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/>
Cheers,
Chris
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <6qGdnevbvYoPgO7V...@earthlink.com>):
> On 7/7/2008 5:51 PM PT, heron stone typed:
>
>>>> How about the other questions for speed, memory usage (is default 2 GB
>>>> enough when multitasking?), etc.
>>> 2GB should be ok for the typical user (i.e., web surfing, MS Office,
>>> etc.).
>>
>> .yes, but 4 GB really makes it hum
>> less HD access
>> more battery life
>
> If 4 GB the maximum memory on MacBook Pro?
Yes.
> And can my client tell an
> Apple retail store or university bookstore to max out the RAM before
> purchasing?
Yes, but this is a bad idea. Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and you
still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if you
get Apple to max the RAM.
> I know online apple.com lets you customize, but not sure how
> store part works.
They open up the machine and put in two 2 GB sticks for you. At least that's
how they do it locally.
>
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Jolly Roger
Chris Ridd <chri...@mac.com> wrote:
You don't need to spend money to get NTFS write capability on Mac OS X.
You can do it with free tools and a little bit of installation work:
<http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20070220150856279>
--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <485a6128$0$3372$4c36...@roadrunner.com>):
> On 6/19/2008 12:33 AM PT, Michael Vilain typed:
>> Based on his usage, I'd say he'd probably be more comfortable with the
>> XP environment. He _could_ get an Intel Macintosh and run XP on it, but
>> most of the value of a Mac comes from running MacOS X. He'll likely be
>> disappointed by either having to change how he does things from XP to
>> MacOS X or not being able to do things outright (and having to run XP to
>> substitute).
>
> How easy is it to run Windows in MacOS? Again, he's not an expert. He
> never used VMware and things like that.
VMWare is just an app. Double-click it, it launches, displays a window from
which to choose the virtual machine you want to run. (You can have multiple
VMs set up, one for Vista, one for XP, one for... you get the picture.)
Double-click on the VM you want to run, and it launches, starting up a new
OS. I have VMWare installed on this iMac. Vista is under 3 minutes away at
all times, I just have to click on the the VMWare icon in my Dock. (I could
have placed a VMWare icon on my desktop, but I don't like putting too many
things on the desktop. That's one of the things that annoys me about Windows,
the way that each and every installer insists on dropping shortcut icons onto
_my_ pristine desktop. Urge to reach out and touch someone, with a machete,
sets in...) Once Vista (or XP, or whatever) boots, you have it live in a
window running on your Mac. You can make the window full-screen if you like.
Note that VMWare doesn't support some things, such as the full ability of the
video card in my iMac, or Bluetooth, and some USB devices. It _does_ support
other things, including USB hard drives and thumb drives and printers.
>
>
>> 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, and 11 shouldn't be a problem.
>>
>> 2 might be an issue. MacOS X is very popular in foreign countries
>> because it's so universal but I have no idea how transparent it's
>> international capabilities are. Twinbridge has MacOS X fonts but MacOS
>> X already comes with Chinese, Korean, Thai, Arabic, and Cyrillic fonts.
>> What does Twinbridge give him other than the fonts? If he really needs
>> the Twinbridge OCR software, he may be able to run in a virtual XP on
>> Parallels or Fusion. That's an additional cost of an XP license plus
>> the virtualization software plus running an XP environment in parallel
>> with MacOS X. He may not like that extra cost.
>>
>> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32243
>> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29555
>>
>> 5 synch with Palm requires Missing Synch for Palm. Up until the iPhone,
>> MacOS X played catch up or "we don't do 3rd-party hardware" and left
>> such things to 3rd-party companies.
>>
>> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19749
>>
>> If he dumps the Palm and gets and iPhone, all that goes away and it
>> "just works".
>>
>> 9 will be a problem. Old printers tend to not be supported by
>> manufacturers. The Epson is offically discontinued and I don't see
>> drivers for it on my 10.4.11 system. In general, the Apple attitude is
>> "Printers are cheap. Get one that just works." So, this printer is
>> essentially a doorstop or will have to be used through virtual XP.
>>
>> 12 is a function of the system he buys. If he gets a tower and buys PCI
>> USB 2.0 cards (4 external ports per card), he'll have lots of ports.
>> These cards are cheap ($30 or so) but the tower isn't (starts at $2799).
>> The laptops ($1099-$1999), Mac Mini ($599 with no monitor or keyboard),
>> and iMac (starts at $1199) all come with 2 USB and 2 Firewire ports.
>> Hubs may work for some of his peripherals, but some may be really picky
>> and require being plugged directly into a hardwired port.
>
> I forgot to mention that this is only a notebook/laptop requirement, not
> desktop.
Most devices will work with VMWare. Some won't, but will work if you boot
directly from a Boot Camp partition. Note: Boot Camp does not appear to be
(officially) compatible with Vista SP1 at this time. At least SP1 doesn't
appear in the Windows Update list on my system, either when running under
VMWare or direct from the Boot Camp partition. It seems that if I were to
download the full-size installer (500 MB!) and ran it, it would work... but
I'm not going to bother, Vista is working as well as Vista ever works right
now, and if it ain't broke I'm not gonna fix it.
>
>
>> Overall, unless this guy has an overriding reason to switch, I suggest
>> he stay with what he's got. If you recommend he switches, you'll be
>> supporting him and all his issues until he gets comfortable. And there
>> will be issues.
>
> Well, he asked if he should get one. He could, but I don't have time to
> help with every problems. I know Apple is supposed to be easy to use but
> his requirements is complex what he does. ;)
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <4859b36d$0$20186$4c36...@roadrunner.com>):
> Hello.
>
> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>
> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
> exists for Mac OS X.
Office 2004, Office 2008, and iWork will all handle Office 2000/2003 files
(except Access, there is no Access for Mac) without problems. NeoOffice and
Open Office will also work.
> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
> and IE6.
FireFox is available. IE is not. Microsoft abandoned it in 2003.
> 4. Shopping online.
No problem.
> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
> stuff via USB.
The combination of iSync and the Missing Sync should handle all of that.
> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
iTunes is an _Apple_ technology.
> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
No problems.
> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
As long as you're using OS X, this is true. If you're using Windows, it's
another WinBox.
> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
> from 2001 or so?).
That should work. I've never used that particular printer, but I've used
Epson Stylus 740 printers, which are older than that, without problems.
> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
Encryption is easy. Security is easy, but largely unnecessary. The last
successful Mac malware was released in 1997.
> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
> my old PowerBook G4.
Errm... IIRC 10.2 could burn CDs using Disk Utility. DU certainly can now.
And Toast lives.
> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>
> Prices isn't an issue either. I assume a MacBook Pro is enough to be
> light and small for lots of travelling around the world.
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
>
--
Ant
>>>>> How about the other questions for speed, memory usage (is default 2 GB
>>>>> enough when multitasking?), etc.
>>>> 2GB should be ok for the typical user (i.e., web surfing, MS Office,
>>>> etc.).
>>> .yes, but 4 GB really makes it hum
>>> less HD access
>>> more battery life
>> If 4 GB the maximum memory on MacBook Pro?
>
> Yes.
>
>> And can my client tell an
>> Apple retail store or university bookstore to max out the RAM before
>> purchasing?
>
> Yes, but this is a bad idea. Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and you
> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if you
> get Apple to max the RAM.
Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
>> I know online apple.com lets you customize, but not sure how
>> store part works.
>
> They open up the machine and put in two 2 GB sticks for you. At least that's
> how they do it locally.
Ah.
--
"I love ants. Do they have uncles? Ha Ha!" --Elmo from Sesame Street
(unknown episode)
Ant
>> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
>> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
>> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
>> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>>
>> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
>> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
>> exists for Mac OS X.
>
> Office 2004, Office 2008, and iWork will all handle Office 2000/2003 files
> (except Access, there is no Access for Mac) without problems. NeoOffice and
> Open Office will also work.
OpenOffice is bad with formatting, macros, and other fancy features. :(
It can't even display my resumes correctly!
>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>
> The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
Good, but how well does it work like Windows'?
>> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
>> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
>> and IE6.
>
> FireFox is available. IE is not. Microsoft abandoned it in 2003.
>
>> 4. Shopping online.
>
> No problem.
>
>> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
>> stuff via USB.
>
> The combination of iSync and the Missing Sync should handle all of that.
OK. I heard Mac OS X 10.5 doesn't come with that and I need a third party?
>> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
>
> iTunes is an _Apple_ technology.
>
>> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
>
> No problems.
>
>> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
>
> As long as you're using OS X, this is true. If you're using Windows, it's
> another WinBox.
>
>> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
>> from 2001 or so?).
>
> That should work. I've never used that particular printer, but I've used
> Epson Stylus 740 printers, which are older than that, without problems.
>
>> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
>> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
>> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
>
> Encryption is easy. Security is easy, but largely unnecessary. The last
> successful Mac malware was released in 1997.
>
>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>> my old PowerBook G4.
>
> Errm... IIRC 10.2 could burn CDs using Disk Utility. DU certainly can now.
> And Toast lives.
Really? Hm, I don't remember that DU.
>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>
> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
Only two? I thought it was three?
--
"The ants and termites have renounced the Hobbesian war." --Petr Kropotkin
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>):
> On 7/8/2008 6:12 AM PT, J.J. O'Shea typed:
>
>>> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
>>> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
>>> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
>>> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>>>
>>> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
>>> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
>>> exists for Mac OS X.
>>
>> Office 2004, Office 2008, and iWork will all handle Office 2000/2003 files
>> (except Access, there is no Access for Mac) without problems. NeoOffice and
>> Open Office will also work.
>
> OpenOffice is bad with formatting, macros, and other fancy features. :(
> It can't even display my resumes correctly!
I said it would work. There are formatting problems. There are some issues
even with Office 2004 and 2008, mostly font problems. Mac and Windows fonts
are _not_ necessarily identical.
>
>
>>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>>
>> The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
>
> Good, but how well does it work like Windows'?
Never used the Windows version, and only used the Mac version to set it up
for a few people who needed it. They didn't have any complaints.
>
>
>>> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
>>> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
>>> and IE6.
>>
>> FireFox is available. IE is not. Microsoft abandoned it in 2003.
>>
>>> 4. Shopping online.
>>
>> No problem.
>>
>>> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
>>> stuff via USB.
>>
>> The combination of iSync and the Missing Sync should handle all of that.
>
> OK. I heard Mac OS X 10.5 doesn't come with that and I need a third party?
iSync ships with the OS. The Missing Sync is $40 from a third party.
>
>
>>> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
>>
>> iTunes is an _Apple_ technology.
>>
>>> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
>>
>> No problems.
>>
>>> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
>>
>> As long as you're using OS X, this is true. If you're using Windows, it's
>> another WinBox.
>>
>>> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
>>> from 2001 or so?).
>>
>> That should work. I've never used that particular printer, but I've used
>> Epson Stylus 740 printers, which are older than that, without problems.
>>
>>> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
>>> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
>>> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
>>
>> Encryption is easy. Security is easy, but largely unnecessary. The last
>> successful Mac malware was released in 1997.
>>
>>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>>> my old PowerBook G4.
>>
>> Errm... IIRC 10.2 could burn CDs using Disk Utility. DU certainly can now.
>> And Toast lives.
>
> Really? Hm, I don't remember that DU.
It's been a while but I'm sure that DU could do it. It can now.
>
>
>>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>>
>> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>
> Only two? I thought it was three?
Just two.
Ant
>>>> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
>>>> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
>>>> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
>>>> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>>>>
>>>> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
>>>> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
>>>> exists for Mac OS X.
>>> Office 2004, Office 2008, and iWork will all handle Office 2000/2003 files
>>> (except Access, there is no Access for Mac) without problems. NeoOffice and
>>> Open Office will also work.
>> OpenOffice is bad with formatting, macros, and other fancy features. :(
>> It can't even display my resumes correctly!
>
> I said it would work. There are formatting problems. There are some issues
> even with Office 2004 and 2008, mostly font problems. Mac and Windows fonts
> are _not_ necessarily identical.
I don't think he is that picky since he doesn't use non-default fonts. I
believe he uses the common ones like Times, Arial/Helvetica, etc.
>>>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>>>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>>>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>>>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>>>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>>> The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
>> Good, but how well does it work like Windows'?
>
> Never used the Windows version, and only used the Mac version to set it up
> for a few people who needed it. They didn't have any complaints.
OK.
>>>> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
>>>> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
>>>> and IE6.
>>> FireFox is available. IE is not. Microsoft abandoned it in 2003.
>>>
>>>> 4. Shopping online.
>>> No problem.
>>>
>>>> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
>>>> stuff via USB.
>>> The combination of iSync and the Missing Sync should handle all of that.
>> OK. I heard Mac OS X 10.5 doesn't come with that and I need a third party?
>
> iSync ships with the OS. The Missing Sync is $40 from a third party.
Wait, what does iSync do and what does Missing Sync do? Is Missing Sync
an addon for iSync?
>>>> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
>>> iTunes is an _Apple_ technology.
>>>
>>>> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
>>> No problems.
>>>
>>>> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
>>> As long as you're using OS X, this is true. If you're using Windows, it's
>>> another WinBox.
>>>
>>>> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
>>>> from 2001 or so?).
>>> That should work. I've never used that particular printer, but I've used
>>> Epson Stylus 740 printers, which are older than that, without problems.
>>>
>>>> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
>>>> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
>>>> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
>>> Encryption is easy. Security is easy, but largely unnecessary. The last
>>> successful Mac malware was released in 1997.
>>>
>>>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>>>> my old PowerBook G4.
>>> Errm... IIRC 10.2 could burn CDs using Disk Utility. DU certainly can now.
>>> And Toast lives.
>> Really? Hm, I don't remember that DU.
>
> It's been a while but I'm sure that DU could do it. It can now.
OK. I remember having to use Toast or something to burn CDs and DVDs.
>>>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>>>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>>> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>> Only two? I thought it was three?
>
> Just two.
--
"As I watch the busy ants on the trail and around the ant pile, I am
impressed by the fact that they are doers and not just believers." --CR 1967
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <GYydne_G74wjGe7V...@earthlink.com>):
> On 7/8/2008 8:01 AM PT, J.J. O'Shea typed:
>
>>>>> I have a client (not a computer/techie expert) who is interested in
>>>>> going from Windows world (3.x, 98 SE, 2000, and XP) to Mac OS X. I am
>>>>> wondering if this is suitable for him. This is what he does on his PCs
>>>>> (notebooks/laptops and desktops):
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. MS Office 2000-2003. He shares a lots of English and asian
>>>>> documents between people (mostly MS products). I know MS Office
>>>>> exists for Mac OS X.
>>>> Office 2004, Office 2008, and iWork will all handle Office 2000/2003
>>>> files
>>>> (except Access, there is no Access for Mac) without problems. NeoOffice
>>>> and
>>>> Open Office will also work.
>>> OpenOffice is bad with formatting, macros, and other fancy features. :(
>>> It can't even display my resumes correctly!
>>
>> I said it would work. There are formatting problems. There are some issues
>> even with Office 2004 and 2008, mostly font problems. Mac and Windows fonts
>> are _not_ necessarily identical.
>
> I don't think he is that picky since he doesn't use non-default fonts. I
> believe he uses the common ones like Times, Arial/Helvetica, etc.
In that case all should be well. Times New Roman and Helvetica are near to
identical on Macs and Windows, and the differences usually take effort to
find and stand out immediately.
>
>
>>>>> 2. Read, write/type, and print Chinese and Korean documents and Web
>>>>> pages and software that use asian characters in datas). He used both
>>>>> MS IME (does Mac OS X comes with one?) and TwinBridge software
>>>>> (mostly for programs that can't display asian characters correctly
>>>>> like in Palm software with asian datas from Palm Treo 650--CJKOS).
>>>> The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
>>> Good, but how well does it work like Windows'?
>>
>> Never used the Windows version, and only used the Mac version to set it up
>> for a few people who needed it. They didn't have any complaints.
>
> OK.
The main problem with the non-Roman texts was with right-to-left texts, like
Hebrew and Arabic, which apparently (I've never used them) had problems. Also
apparently they've been fixed now, or at least those who had them have shut
up.
>
>
>>>>> 3. Surf the Web and use Webmails via wireless connections (at home,
>>>>> WEP -- the most it can go on his old WAP). He is used to Firefox v2
>>>>> and IE6.
>>>> FireFox is available. IE is not. Microsoft abandoned it in 2003.
>>>>
>>>>> 4. Shopping online.
>>>> No problem.
>>>>
>>>>> 5. Palm Treo 650 software and third party programs for Hotsynch and
>>>>> stuff via USB.
>>>> The combination of iSync and the Missing Sync should handle all of that.
>>> OK. I heard Mac OS X 10.5 doesn't come with that and I need a third party?
>>
>> iSync ships with the OS. The Missing Sync is $40 from a third party.
>
> Wait, what does iSync do and what does Missing Sync do? Is Missing Sync
> an addon for iSync?
iSync syncs _many_ devices. The Missing Sync for Palm syncs Palms, the
Missing Sync for Windows Mobile syncs WinMob devices, etc. iSync doesn't do
Palm well and doesn't do WinMob at all.
>
>
>>>>> 6. iTunes for his two iPods (recent Classic and old 2(?) GB Nano).
>>>> iTunes is an _Apple_ technology.
>>>>
>>>>> 7. Watch DVDs, video files, streaming videos, etc.
>>>> No problems.
>>>>
>>>>> 8. Easy to use computer and requires very little support from people.
>>>> As long as you're using OS X, this is true. If you're using Windows, it's
>>>> another WinBox.
>>>>
>>>>> 9. Compatible with his old USB printers (e.g., Epson Stylus Photo 785EPX
>>>>> from 2001 or so?).
>>>> That should work. I've never used that particular printer, but I've used
>>>> Epson Stylus 740 printers, which are older than that, without problems.
>>>>
>>>>> 10. Easy to do encryption/security on datas. I had to do a lot of
>>>>> malware cleanups (e.g., trojans) on his computers. Quite annoying
>>>>> even though I secured with bunch of programs, hosts file, etc.
>>>> Encryption is easy. Security is easy, but largely unnecessary. The last
>>>> successful Mac malware was released in 1997.
>>>>
>>>>> 11. CD and DVD burnings. I recall Mac OS X 10.2 didn't come with one on
>>>>> my old PowerBook G4.
>>>> Errm... IIRC 10.2 could burn CDs using Disk Utility. DU certainly can
>>>> now.
>>>> And Toast lives.
>>> Really? Hm, I don't remember that DU.
>>
>> It's been a while but I'm sure that DU could do it. It can now.
>
> OK. I remember having to use Toast or something to burn CDs and DVDs.
I used Toast too. Just 'cause it was possible didn't mean that it was ideal.
Toast was much easier. Still is.
>
>
>>>>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>>>>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>>>> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>>> Only two? I thought it was three?
>>
>> Just two.
>
--
Jolly Roger
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2008 5:46 AM PT, J.J. O'Shea typed:
>
> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
> > charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and you
> > still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if you
> > get Apple to max the RAM.
>
> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
Jolly Roger
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2008 6:12 AM PT, J.J. O'Shea typed:
>
> > The Mac has had support for Chinese and Korean since at least 1995.
>
> Good, but how well does it work like Windows'?
I would expect Mac OS X's language support to be *better* than Windows.
Hugh Gibbons
> Ant wrote:
> > On 7/7/2008 8:55 PM PT, Hugh Gibbons typed:
> >
> >>> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5), can
> >>> each OS access the other drives directly?
> >>
> >> No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
> >> partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac partition.
> >> (Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac OS X 10.5?).
> >> You can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is readable and
> >> writable by both systems. I have a FAT32 partition for moving files
> >> back and forth, but not on my boot drive. It's on a removable drive
> >> firewire drive.
> >
> > OK, I will have to point that out to him then. Thanks. I thought Mac OS
> > X would be able to handle NTFS (read and write) by now. I guess not. :(
>
> No, it just uses the Linux code for handling NTFS, so there's no write
> support.
I don't think there's any Linux code in MacOS. MacOS's unix is based on
BSD, isn't it?
Hugh Gibbons
Not major. It's easily remedied with a $20 4-way hub, or two.
Ant
>>>>> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5), can
>>>>> each OS access the other drives directly?
>>>> No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
>>>> partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac partition.
>>>> (Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac OS X 10.5?).
>>>> You can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is readable and
>>>> writable by both systems. I have a FAT32 partition for moving files
>>>> back and forth, but not on my boot drive. It's on a removable drive
>>>> firewire drive.
>>> OK, I will have to point that out to him then. Thanks. I thought Mac OS
>>> X would be able to handle NTFS (read and write) by now. I guess not. :(
>> No, it just uses the Linux code for handling NTFS, so there's no write
>> support.
>
> I don't think there's any Linux code in MacOS. MacOS's unix is based on
> BSD, isn't it?
Yes, BSD.
--
"... Our world is not an ant farm!" --Duncan MacLeod (Highlander Season
3 Finale Part II)
Ant
>> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
>>> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and you
>>> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if you
>>> get Apple to max the RAM.
>> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
>
> Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
Um, for what? Desktops can use them?
--
"... Our world is not an ant farm!" --Duncan MacLeod (Highlander Season
3 Finale Part II)
Ant
>>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>
> Not major. It's easily remedied with a $20 4-way hub, or two.
I assume old USB hubs from five years can be used. It seems to work with
Windows 98 SE and XP Pro. SP2.
--
"... Ooh, we haven't done that in a long time. I love picnics. I'll
bring my ant jar." --The Berenstain Bears (unknown episode)
Jolly Roger
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2008 7:43 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
>
> >> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
> >>> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and
> >>> you
> >>> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if
> >>> you
> >>> get Apple to max the RAM.
> >> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
> >
> > Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
>
> Um, for what? Desktops can use them?
The spare RAM will be useful anyone who owns the same (or a similar)
model with the same RAM requirements. RAM in a Mac is no different than
RAM in any other similarly-built PC, after all.
Jolly Roger
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2008 10:21 PM PT, Hugh Gibbons typed:
>
> >>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
> >>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
> >> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> >
> > Not major. It's easily remedied with a $20 4-way hub, or two.
>
> I assume old USB hubs from five years can be used. It seems to work with
> Windows 98 SE and XP Pro. SP2.
USB is a standard, so yes - even older USB-standard-compliant hubs will
work.
Jolly Roger
Hugh Gibbons <hugh_g...@dontsendmeemail.net> wrote:
The NFS code probably stems from the same open source project either way.
Chris Ridd
OS X is based on various BSDs, but does contain code from elsewhere. For
instance OpenDirectory or whatever it is called nowadays, is really just
a modified version of OpenLDAP.
Check the sources to Apple's NTFS code if you want to look for yourself:
<http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.2/ntfs-52/kext/ntfs_vfsops.c>
Google will show the credited author (Anton Altaparmakov) developed it
for Linux, and continues to do so.
Cheers,
Chris
Chris Ridd
> In article <PoqdndC3GvtT6enV...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/8/2008 10:21 PM PT, Hugh Gibbons typed:
>>
>>>>> 12. Plenty of USB ports (no external hubs to carry) for his mice, iPod,
>>>>> Palm Treo 680, printer, etc.
>>>> Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
>>> Not major. It's easily remedied with a $20 4-way hub, or two.
>> I assume old USB hubs from five years can be used. It seems to work with
>> Windows 98 SE and XP Pro. SP2.
>
> USB is a standard, so yes - even older USB-standard-compliant hubs will
> work.
A 5-year old hub might only support USB 1.1, but should still work
correctly.
Cheers,
Chris
Ant
>>>> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
>>>>> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and
>>>>> you
>>>>> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if
>>>>> you
>>>>> get Apple to max the RAM.
>>>> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
>>> Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
>> Um, for what? Desktops can use them?
>
> The spare RAM will be useful anyone who owns the same (or a similar)
> model with the same RAM requirements. RAM in a Mac is no different than
> RAM in any other similarly-built PC, after all.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. What bothers me is why Apple always use up
all the RAM slots and requires removal of old ones to get more memory.
It's like a sneaky and evil way to make more $$. :(
--
"He who dislikes aardvarks was an ant in his former life." --unknown
Ant
>>>>>> About the dual boot setup (Windows XP Pro. SP2 vs. Mac OS X 10.5),
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> each OS access the other drives directly?
>>>>> No. MacOS can read but I think not write the Windows NT filesystem
>>>>> partition. Windows doesn't know what to make of the Mac
>>>>> partition. (Maybe fixed in the latest version Boot Camp with Mac
>>>>> OS X 10.5?). You can make a FAT32 partition on the disk that is
>>>>> readable and writable by both systems. I have a FAT32 partition
>>>>> for moving files back and forth, but not on my boot drive. It's on
>>>>> a removable drive firewire drive.
>>>> OK, I will have to point that out to him then. Thanks. I thought Mac
>>>> OS X would be able to handle NTFS (read and write) by now. I guess
>>>> not. :(
>>> No, it just uses the Linux code for handling NTFS, so there's no
>>> write support.
>>
>> I don't think there's any Linux code in MacOS. MacOS's unix is based
>> on BSD, isn't it?
>
> OS X is based on various BSDs, but does contain code from elsewhere. For
> instance OpenDirectory or whatever it is called nowadays, is really just
> a modified version of OpenLDAP.
>
> Check the sources to Apple's NTFS code if you want to look for yourself:
>
> <http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.2/ntfs-52/kext/ntfs_vfsops.c>
>
>
> Google will show the credited author (Anton Altaparmakov) developed it
> for Linux, and continues to do so.
Doesn't write in NTFS works now? If so, then does Mac OS X 10.5 have it?
--
"Why eat ants when an uncle will do?" --Tymoutta Aardvarka of Sarcastica
Tom Stiller
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> What bothers me is why Apple always use up all the RAM slots and
> requires removal of old ones to get more memory. It's like a sneaky
> and evil way to make more $$. :(
But it's not always the case. The last two Macs I bought shipped with
only one 1 GB module. I suspect it has to do with what's on hand at the
time of assembly.
--
Tom Stiller
PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <Ic-dnXshOoe5XOjV...@earthlink.com>):
Not out of the box in OS X.
> If so, then does Mac OS X 10.5 have it?
Nope. OS X can read, but not write, NTFS out of the box. There are several
ways to add the ability to write NTFS. I use the Paragon utility. Others use
the free utility(ies). (I think there might be two...)
Chris Ridd
> In article <Ic-dnXghOodFXejV...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> What bothers me is why Apple always use up all the RAM slots and
>> requires removal of old ones to get more memory. It's like a sneaky
>> and evil way to make more $$. :(
>
> But it's not always the case. The last two Macs I bought shipped with
> only one 1 GB module. I suspect it has to do with what's on hand at the
> time of assembly.
I got lucky with my Powerbook too - only one 1GB stick was included by
Apple instead of the expected 2 x 512MB sticks.
Cheers,
Chris
Jolly Roger
> On 7/9/2008 1:20 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
>
> >>>> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
> >>>>> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself... and
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true if
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> get Apple to max the RAM.
> >>>> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
> >>> Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
> >> Um, for what? Desktops can use them?
> >
> > The spare RAM will be useful anyone who owns the same (or a similar)
> > model with the same RAM requirements. RAM in a Mac is no different than
> > RAM in any other similarly-built PC, after all.
>
> Ah, I wasn't aware of that. What bothers me is why Apple always use up
> all the RAM slots
That's not been my experience. It does happen from time to time, but
certainly not always.
> and requires removal of old ones to get more memory.
> It's like a sneaky and evil way to make more $$. :(
I think it's more likely the cheapest thing for them at the time, or
perhaps whatever happens to be most readily available at the time.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
[smip]
> > > Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> >
> > Only two? I thought it was three
>
> Depends; the iMac and 17" MacBook Pro have three. 15" MacBook Pro an
> MacBook have two. The Mac Pro has five.
Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports (I'm
a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get by
without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Jolly Roger
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <Ic-dnXghOodFXejV...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
> > On 7/9/2008 1:20 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
> >
> > >>>> Apple charges $200 to max the RAM; Crucial
> > >>>>> charges $105 for two 2 GB sticks which you can install yourself...
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>> still have the original two 1 GB sticks as spares, which isn't true
> > >>>>> if
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>> get Apple to max the RAM.
> > >>>> Wow, then what do people do with the old RAM? That's pretty dumb.
> > >>> Sell it on eBay, of course! : )
> > >> Um, for what? Desktops can use them?
> > >
> > > The spare RAM will be useful anyone who owns the same (or a similar)
> > > model with the same RAM requirements. RAM in a Mac is no different than
> > > RAM in any other similarly-built PC, after all.
> >
> > Ah, I wasn't aware of that. What bothers me is why Apple always use up
> > all the RAM slots
>
> That's not been my experience. It does happen from time to time, but
> certainly not always.
In fact, if Apple had tried to fill every RAM slot of my Mac Pro (that
arrives today - woohoo!), they'd have to install eight 256 MB DDR2
PC2-6400 chips! Do those even exist?? *smirk*
; D
Tim Streater
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> > In article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>,
> > Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> [smip]
> > > > Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> > >
> > > Only two? I thought it was three
> >
> > Depends; the iMac and 17" MacBook Pro have three. 15" MacBook Pro an
> > MacBook have two. The Mac Pro has five.
>
> Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports (I'm
> a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get by
> without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
More wasted desk space and power.
My NewerTech external disk thingy for the Mini has several extra ports
as does the Dell display and my keyboard. Oh, and the Mini itself has
four ports. So no shortage at my house - and no hub.
Jamie Kahn Genet
Tim Streater
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <1ijw6e7.19syry5k4cgu8N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> >
> > > Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>,
> > > > Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> > > [smip]
> > > > > > Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> > > > >
> > > > > Only two? I thought it was three
> > > >
> > > > Depends; the iMac and 17" MacBook Pro have three. 15" MacBook Pro an
> > > > MacBook have two. The Mac Pro has five.
> > >
> > > Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> > > Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports (I'm
> > > a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get by
> > > without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
> >
> > More wasted desk space and power.
> >
> > My NewerTech external disk thingy for the Mini has several extra ports
> > as does the Dell display and my keyboard. Oh, and the Mini itself has
> > four ports. So no shortage at my house - and no hub.
>
> You realise those are all hubs? :-D
OK wise guy, yes I know that, I'm referring to separate born-to-be-a-hub
hubs.
Jolly Roger
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <1ijw6e7.19syry5k4cgu8N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> > Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports
> > (I'm a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get
> > by without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
>
> You have a desktop Mac; the OP has a laptop Mac; a hub means one extra
> item to shlep around.
FWIW, tiny USB hubs like this aren't hard to come by:
<http://www.prelovedcomputers.com/proddetail.php?prod=UH-275>
I've got one of these - it's tiny, light, and convenient.
Jolly Roger
Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <1ijwbwi.14dfeauucg6jdN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1ijw6e7.19syry5k4cgu8N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>,
> > > > > Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> > > > [smip]
> > > > > > > Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only two? I thought it was three
> > > > >
> > > > > Depends; the iMac and 17" MacBook Pro have three. 15" MacBook Pro an
> > > > > MacBook have two. The Mac Pro has five.
> > > >
> > > > Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> > > > Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports (I'm
> > > > a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get by
> > > > without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
> > >
> > > More wasted desk space and power.
> > >
> > > My NewerTech external disk thingy for the Mini has several extra ports
> > > as does the Dell display and my keyboard. Oh, and the Mini itself has
> > > four ports. So no shortage at my house - and no hub.
> >
> > You realise those are all hubs? :-D
>
> OK wise guy
NYUK NYUK NYUK! : D
Hugh Gibbons
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <1ijw6e7.19syry5k4cgu8N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> > Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports
> > (I'm a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get
> > by without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
>
> You have a desktop Mac; the OP has a laptop Mac; a hub means one extra
> item to shlep around.
I have a one-to-four hub from Gigaware thats about 5"x1"x0.5". That's
pretty compact, but I've seen smaller. It has an integrated 3" cable
and powers off the computer. Plug one into each of my Macbook's USB
ports and I have 8 ports (but limited power off the hubs). That's more
than plenty for me. In contrast, my first USB hub (still attached to my
old iMac G3) requires a wall wart, an A-to-B cable and is over 5x the
size. Despite the wall wart, it won't support a 500 mA load.
Hugh Gibbons
Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <1ijw6e7.19syry5k4cgu8N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <PpSdnb80PY3f4u7V...@earthlink.com>,
> > > Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> > [smip]
> > > > > Only two USB ports. This is a major drawback.
> > > >
> > > > Only two? I thought it was three
> > >
> > > Depends; the iMac and 17" MacBook Pro have three. 15" MacBook Pro an
> > > MacBook have two. The Mac Pro has five.
> >
> > Still, how hard is it to get a cheap USB hub? I have four port USB2
> > Logitech powered hubs attached to each of my iMac's three USB ports (I'm
> > a USB gadget junkie :-D ). I don't know how people seem to get by
> > without hubs or why it bothers people to have to do so.
>
> More wasted desk space and power.
They use a little bit of desk space, but I don't think they use any more
power (or hardly any more) than an interal hub would use.
Tim Streater
Hugh Gibbons <hugh_g...@dontsendmeemail.net> wrote:
Perhaps not. But it's an extra power brick and another power socket used
up.
Tim Streater
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
Erm, I'm not familiar with this acronym. Could you elaborate?
Tim Streater
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <tim.streater-EBE1...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > NYUK NYUK NYUK! : D
> >
> > Erm, I'm not familiar with this acronym. Could you elaborate?
>
> It's not an acronym; it's a laugh.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Stooges>
Hmmm, I should have included the <irony></irony> tags.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <michelle-6B7258...@news.east.cox.net>):
> In article <tim.streater-1762...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>> NYUK NYUK NYUK! : D
>>>>
>>>> Erm, I'm not familiar with this acronym. Could you elaborate?
>>>
>>> It's not an acronym; it's a laugh.
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Stooges>
>>
>> Hmmm, I should have included the <irony></irony> tags.
>
> Well, considering that you're in the UK, I thought that you had not been
> exposed to this blot on American culture.
>
>
ITYM 'the pinnacle of American culture.
Tim Streater
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <tim.streater-1762...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > > NYUK NYUK NYUK! : D
> > > >
> > > > Erm, I'm not familiar with this acronym. Could you elaborate?
> > >
> > > It's not an acronym; it's a laugh.
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Stooges>
> >
> > Hmmm, I should have included the <irony></irony> tags.
>
> Well, considering that you're in the UK, I thought that you had not been
> exposed to this blot on American culture.
I think I'd heard of them from my tome in California, but probably not
enough to know who they were.
Tim Streater
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <g57gk...@news4.newsguy.com>,
> J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>
> > > Well, considering that you're in the UK, I thought that you had not
> > > been exposed to this blot on American culture.
> >
> > ITYM 'the pinnacle of American culture.
>
> Er, no; that would be the Marx Brothers.
The Thin Man, Shirley. I have all the movies on DVD. And then there's
The Sting, Chinatown, Perry Mason, and a whole host of others.
John McWilliams
>
> I think I'd heard of them from my tome in California, but probably not
> enough to know who they were.
You're a writer? Cool. Lots of writers do it in CA, but most of it is
Hollywood dreck.
--
john mcwilliams
Tim Streater
John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net> wrote:
Sorry. tome -> time.
Jolly Roger
Tim Streater <tim.st...@dante.org.uk> wrote:
<http://new.wavlist.com/tv/010/nyuk.wav>
James Sidbury
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <g57gk...@news4.newsguy.com>,
> J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>
> > > Well, considering that you're in the UK, I thought that you had not
> > > been exposed to this blot on American culture.
> >
> > ITYM 'the pinnacle of American culture.
>
> Er, no; that would be the Marx Brothers.
Buster Keaton is holding on line ....
uh, nevermind.
dick