Help: I Hate HyperTalk
Zorro
Hi. I find HyperCard very useful for little programming projects,
because it gives me a ready-made, serviceable user interface. There's
only one problem: I absolutely LOATHE HyperTalk. I think it is a
poorly designed, poorly specified, poorly documented language that
enforces bad programming.
I was wondering: is there a public domain toolbox of C functions that
would allow one to write HyperCard scripts in C while still having
access to fields, buttons, etc., and _without having to muck around in
(yuck) HyperTalk (ieech)?
Thanks for your help!
Z.
KarlPet
>specified, poorly documented language that enforces bad programming.
>I was wondering: is there a public domain toolbox of C functions that
>would allow one to write HyperCard scripts in C while still having access
>to fields, buttons, etc., and _without having to muck around in (yuck)
>HyperTalk (ieech)?
External commands you write in C and Pascal - XCMDs and XFCNs - can use
the full range of Macintosh toolbox calls. In effect, writing an external
command for your stack lets you add a new command to HyperTalk. External
commands can make callbacks to HyperCard to access field data and other
stack features.
External commands are an integral part of that 'poorly designed' HyperTalk
language you mentioned. To share a slightly different opinion, I've writen
external commands for years, but the elegance of HyperTalk bowls me over
every time I use it. After spending several days writing code, writing
scripts is pure joy!
- Karl Petersen
Pete Dako
HC 2.2 supports OSA (Open Scripting Architecture) --
so you could look into Frontier UserTalk, AppleScript (not so different
from HyperTalk, tho), QuicKeys Script, -- maybe Tcl??? and whatever other
OSA languages you can find.
Personally I think you should check out Frontier though. It's cool!
-- Pete
---
Pete Dako pe...@io.org Casual Casual Toronto, Canada
MagiconInc
writes:
>only one problem: I absolutely LOATHE HyperTalk. I think it is a
>poorly designed, poorly specified, poorly documented language that
>enforces bad programming.
You say this, and in the next breath say you want to code in C?!
Some comments just defy an adequate response.
Still, each to his own.
Paul Magnussen
Zorro
Even if C weren't a great language (but it is, it is!!), *at least* it
is thoroughly documented (my fave is Harbison and Steele's "C: A
Reference Manual"); all the documentation for HyperTalk I've ever seen
sucks eggs.
Have I somehow missed the good stuff? My mind is open.
Z.
MKlink
sucks eggs.>>
Have you tried Winkler/Kamins/Devoto's "HyperTalk 2.2: The Book"?
Could you be specific about the shortcomings in the docs you have? What
would you like to see?
Mark Klink
Thomas Patterson
different needs in very different ways. It would be silly to attack a
problem by limiting yourself to only using C, or only using HyperTalk.
At my company, we have solved complex problems with just C, just
Hypertalk, and both (writing special XCMDs).
Hypertalk's simplicity is incredible, but it's speed is abysmal
(especially compared to compiled C). On the other hand, C is very low
bang for the buck. It takes quite alot of time to produce something
rather mundane using C.
-Just some thoughts.
SSC Rob
>poorly designed, poorly specified, poorly documented language that
>enforces bad programming.
What is your frame of reference? Before I had programmed in a structured
language I thought FORTRAN was the only language a programmer would ever
need. I have programmed professionally in D.G. Assembler, FORTRAN, PL/1,
C, Pascal, RPG, and HyperTalk. My reading is this:
Macintosh programming in HyperTalk is to Macintosh programming in C as
Macintosh programming in C is to Macintosh programming in assembler.
If you don't believe me, try writing an XCMD in C (or Pascal, which is
also superior to C) and then write the same XCMD in CompileIt's version of
HyperTalk.
Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company
"Prolonging the hour of astonishment..."
SSC Rob
>poorly designed, poorly specified, poorly documented language that
>enforces bad programming.
I recently responded to this message from my perspective as a professional
programmer. Following is a response from another persective:
As chairperson of the North (Calif.) Coast Mac User Group's HyperCard SIG
I have had the opportunity to review many functional and inventive
HyperCard stacks written by persons with no formal computer science
training. HyperCard/HyperTalk truly empowers peole who lack programmer
training to author meaningful Macintosh aplications.
What are the odds that someone WITH NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING could
create any kind of meaningful Macintosh application using C?
Jerome Jahnke
[Stuff Deleted]
> What are the odds that someone WITH NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING could
> create any kind of meaningful Macintosh application using C?
Quite good actually, most of the people from my generation (I am 29 now)
had NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING we just learned on the job. And I and
folks like me still make a decent living as computer programmers. Sure we
have to read and keep up with what is going on, however, this is not to
say HyperTalk is a bad language or even that C is a good language, but
that your assertion is a false one.
Jer,
--
Jerome Jahnke
BSD Academic Computing
University of Chicago
j-ja...@uchicago.edu
Victor Eijkhout
> In article <3kk6s0$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ssc...@aol.com (SSC Rob) wrote:
>
> [Stuff Deleted]
> > What are the odds that someone WITH NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING could
> > create any kind of meaningful Macintosh application using C?
>
> Quite good actually, most of the people from my generation (I am 29 now)
> had NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING we just learned on the job.
Ok, you'e working as Mac Programmer. I'm not. I don't have the
time to go through Inside The Mac to figure out how to
setup buttons and all that. Although I could. I've written that sort
of stuff in a distant past on the Atari ST. Event loops. Brrrr....
Anyway, Hypercard makes it infinitely easier to write an appealing
program.
--
Victor Eijkhout
405 Hilgard Ave .............................. ``[...] making Linux the third
Department of Mathematics, UCLA .................. most widely used operating
Los Angeles CA 90024 ........................... system on the Intel hardware,
phone: +1 310 825 2173 / 9036 ........................ after MsDOS and Doom.''
home: +1 310 209 0068 ..................... [Jeff Dege, quoted in a.h.b-o-u]
http://www.math.ucla.edu/~eijkhout/
Jerome Jahnke
eijk...@jacobi.math.ucla.edu (Victor Eijkhout) wrote:
> In article <j-jahnke-200...@bio-38.bsd.uchicago.edu>
j-ja...@uchicago.edu (Jerome Jahnke) writes:
>
> > In article <3kk6s0$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ssc...@aol.com (SSC
Rob) wrote:
> >
> > [Stuff Deleted]
> > > What are the odds that someone WITH NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING could
> > > create any kind of meaningful Macintosh application using C?
> >
> > Quite good actually, most of the people from my generation (I am 29 now)
> > had NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING we just learned on the job.
>
> Ok, you'e working as Mac Programmer. I'm not. I don't have the
> time to go through Inside The Mac to figure out how to
> setup buttons and all that. Although I could. I've written that sort
> of stuff in a distant past on the Atari ST. Event loops. Brrrr....
> Anyway, Hypercard makes it infinitely easier to write an appealing
> program.
This is not the point I was making, if you had been following the thread
you would have seen that the assertion was one that in order to use C
successfully you needed formal computer science training.
My argument does not go to wether C is better, or even worse than
HyperTalk, and as a matter of fact first cuts on many of my algorithms are
done in HyperTalk. Instead I was refuting the assertion that in order to
use C you had to attend classes. This is not true, HyperTalk is easier to
use becuase it is a dynamic environment (actually interperted) and NOT
becuase HyperTalk is a simple language. If there were a system like
hypertalk that had C as it's scripting language (i.e. MUDs) then lots of
folks would love C. As it is they love HyperTalk, all of this has very
little to do with the merits of the language and everything to do with the
merits of the development environments.
Zorro
>If there were a system like
>hypertalk that had C as it's scripting language (i.e. MUDs) then lots of
>folks would love C. As it is they love HyperTalk, all of this has very
>little to do with the merits of the language and everything to do with the
>merits of the development environments.
THAT was where I was coming from. I like HyperCard for quick
development. It has this nice built-in interface-building system and
a decent library of functions. But _HyperTalk I find awful (a matter
of taste, I suppose)
Z.
mike.r...@his.com
I find the HyperTalk Reference stack very handy and fairly complete.
-ras
Juan Ingles
j-ja...@uchicago.edu (Jerome Jahnke) wrote:
> In article <3kk6s0$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ssc...@aol.com (SSC Rob) wrote:
>
> [Stuff Deleted]
> > What are the odds that someone WITH NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING could
> > create any kind of meaningful Macintosh application using C?
>
> Quite good actually, most of the people from my generation (I am 29 now)
> had NO COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING we just learned on the job. And I and
[snip]
Umm, wouldn't experience on the job count as "COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING"?
Juan.
Jerome Jahnke
our...@deere.com (Juan Ingles) wrote:
Dunno, how did I get the job to get the "COMPUTER SCIENCE TRAINING?" Also
given what I know of computer science I don't think ANY computer scientist
would say I am doing computer science. What I do is more like a mechanic
as compared to a mechanical engineer.
SSC Rob
referring to people like our HyperCard SIG member, Carl C. Carl designed
and scripted a series of HyperCard stacks that he has been using the last
several years for shop order processing, invoicing, bookkeeping, and tax
reporting for his laser engraving business. Last year he scripted
point-of-sale/inventory control/sales analysis stacks for his daughter's
ice cream parlor.
Carl has had NO classroom training in any aspect of DP--NO Introduction to
DP/Computers, NO courses in systems analysus, NO courses in any
programming language, NO courses in database design. He had NEVER used
computerized accounting software before designing his system, not even a
spreadsheet.
If you truly believe people like Carl would have even a modicum of success
at computer programming if they approached their first encounter with the
Macintosh armed only with a C manual instead of a book on HyperCard,
please elucidate your reasoning. The idea flies in the face of my
personal experience and observations.
Rob Cozens, Chairperson
NCMUG HyperCard SIG
Jerome Jahnke
> Carl has had NO classroom training in any aspect of DP--NO Introduction to
> DP/Computers, NO courses in systems analysus, NO courses in any
> programming language, NO courses in database design. He had NEVER used
> computerized accounting software before designing his system, not even a
> spreadsheet.
Once again, I can name any number of people who have never seen the inside
of a classroom and are GREAT programmers. I admit that after I got my job
I took classes, I worked/work at a university and I would be a fool if I
did NOT take advantage of the situation.
> If you truly believe people like Carl would have even a modicum of success
> at computer programming if they approached their first encounter with the
> Macintosh armed only with a C manual instead of a book on HyperCard,
> please elucidate your reasoning. The idea flies in the face of my
> personal experience and observations.
This may be true, but your assertion hinges on statement that all people
are like Carl, this is not true. I have seen programmers with no in
classroom experience do amazing things, it is not a mystic art, why is it
that you feel HyperTalk is easer to learn than C? Carl has found a set of
tools that allow him to do great stuff, he was also probably motivated
when he learned that a program did not exist to help him. Finally there is
a tremendous user community who are very active in helping new comer learn
what they need to do. These people do not sit down and grok HyperTalk it
is a process, just like any other language.
On the other side of this whole debate are the people to whom HyperCard is
terribly confusing and not worth the time of day. Carl is a member of a
group of people who have responded well to HyperCard, but there are lots
of people who have responded equally as well to C. The Macintosh Shareware
ranks are filled with people who did not know how to program and who wrote
great programs anyway.
MKlink
are like Carl, this is not true. I have seen programmers with no in
classroom experience do amazing things, it is not a mystic art, why is it
that you feel HyperTalk is easer to learn than C?>>
True, not everyone is the same, and there are folks who respond readily to
C. I think that once one gets over the cryptic appearance of C code, it
becomes clear that it's not as awful as it appears, and that a lot of the
things you do aren't that terribly different from what you'd be doing in a
"higher" language like HyperCard. But... the fact is that the number of
folks working comfortably with HyperCard is many times that of all the
combined C, Pascal, Lisp... etc., programmers working with the Mac. I
think that there are several reasons for this. First, the English-like
appearance of HyperCard scripts is much easier for most people to
understand. Second, the fact that HyperCard is dynamic - you can change
things on the fly, experiment, see what works and what doesn't - is far
more conducive to learning than the compile-link-run-debug cycle. Third,
and probably most important, the fact that you don't have to know a thing
about data types, and that you don't have to track pointers and handles,
makes HyperCard much easier for anyone. I believe that C will eventually
be replaced by a language like Dylan, where memory tracking will be a
thing of the past.
Mark Klink
Jerome Jahnke
> But... the fact is that the number of
> folks working comfortably with HyperCard is many times that of all the
> combined C, Pascal, Lisp... etc., programmers working with the Mac.
What is this, wild assertion week?? I find this rather hard to swallow.
Granted everyone and their brother has some sort of HyperCard on their
machine, however, howcome if there are more HC Developers than there are
C, Pascal, Lisp... etc programmers for the Mac, so much shareware written
in those other languages is released than HyperCard and SuperCard based
stuff? I will give you that is is tougher and tougher to tell, and that
lots of good HyperTalk based stuff (all but one graphical Web Editor) but
I am not convinced that your statement is a true one.
More people have HyperCard than have compilers. But I don't think there
are more people programming comfortably at the HyperTalk level than write
in C, certainly NOT C, Pascal, and Basic combined.
MKlink
best-selling piece of software>>
Ok, Here's some excerpts from the 2/95 Apple Directions. Since the article
was posted on eWorld and on the latest Bookmark CD, I believe it's ok to
quote here:
<<"According to Peter Christy, senior director of the Apple Developer
Products Group, "HyperCard broke new ground when it was introduced by
providing a tool with a unique and broadly usable model of 'programming.'
Since its introduction, HyperCard has been used to create countless
valuable applications ranging from personal tools through corporate
applications all the way to some of today's most innovative and successful
multimedia applications."...Christy makes it clear that Apple sees the
value in supporting HyperCard as a development platform. He states, "Apple
is more committed to this kind of solution tool than ever before. We in
the Developer Products Group recognize that our 'developers' include a lot
more HyperCard users than C++ programmers, and in sheer numbers there are
more applications created with HyperCard and similar tools than with C++
and other traditional programming languages."
Further evidence of HyperCard's continuing popularity as a development
platform can be found in the Redgate listings on AppleLink (path-Developer
Support:Redgate Directory: HyperCard), where some 465 commercial HyperCard
products are currently listed. And consider that hundreds more products
are developed as customer solutions, and are not available to the
public....
Today HyperCard is the second best selling product from AppleSoft, and it
is the fifth most popular software product on the Macintosh computer,
according to InfoCorp, Inc. <<the context of the article makes it clear
that they are referring to the developers version, not the
player...mk.>>">>
Of course, the real argument is not over total number of users, but over
what is the easiest development system/language to learn. Just try this
experiment. Take 10, a dozen, or a hundred folks with no programming
experience. Give half of them to an instructor teaching HyperTalk and give
half of them to an instructor teaching C. Now give them each a day or two
to learn something simple, like how to put up a dialog that asks for two
words, then concatenates the words and places them into a textEdit field.
I realize I've really stacked the deck here, since HyperTalk takes care of
all the toolbox stuff and that would crush anyone trying to start out in
C... but that's a large part of my point.
Even if you eliminate all the interface stuff and stick to a console
window are "scanf" and "printf" really easier to to teach than "ask" and
"put"?. In short, do you really believe that it is just as easy to teach
C with its prefix and postfix notation, with its shorts, ints, longs,
etc., with its pointers, structs, enums, reference by address, etc.? We
all like what we know, and what we already know seems easy to us (and what
is unfamiliar seems confusing), so we assume that what we already know
will be easy for others. The real test is how easy HyperTalk and HyperCard
are (vs. C or other languages) for someone with no prior programming
experience.
Mark Klink
Jerome Jahnke
> <<More people have HyperCard than have compilers. But I don't think there
> are more people programming comfortably at the HyperTalk level than write
> in C, certainly NOT C, Pascal, and Basic combined.>>
>
> Note that I said "on the mac". To settle this we'd have to get the sales
> records of HC at Claris and Apple for the development versions of
> HyperCard, and compare them with sales of Mac compilers - or some other
> reliable figures. I am talking about development versions, not the
> "Player" If anyone can clarify and add to this, please jump in.
I noted that, however, you view seems to be rather biased, lets look at
released shareware products. After all people are proud of their work and
release it when it is done. At one time I would have agreed with you that
there were more hypertalk programmers than there were C and Pascal
Programmers, but not anymore. A majority of those orginal HyperTalk
programmers have gone to C and other languages. People eventually jump
ship.
> I'd be
> glad to be corrected if I am off base here. I know that Apple recently
> said that HyperCard was there second best-selling piece of software
> (presumably after System software).
Sales mean nothing, just becuase Microsoft ships millions of copies of
windows does not mean that windows is being used. I have two DOS machines,
along with an odd assortment of Macs, anyway I also have two legal copies
of Windows (they came with the machine, BUT one machine does not have
Windows installed.) This is a rather common occurance. And finally, Apple
does not have a core of super hot software products that they sell to the
buying public. And they don't say if they cound HyperCard Player in this
group.
> I can say, anecdotally (though I know
> that won't satisfy you), that for every person I know who uses a compiler,
> I know approximately 10 people who script in HyperCard. Remember, these
> are not "programmers" or people you'll find associated with a computer
> department in a university - they're everyday folks taking care of their
> own problems, or just having fun putting things together - so they may be
> people that you don't encounter in your situation.
You make broad assumptions about me and my "situation." I know people who
do both, I also know people who move from one into the other, I know of no
one who moves from C into HyperTalk. I know lots that move from HyperTalk
into C. All that aside. You said Programmers, I don't know what you mean
when you say programmer, but I assume someone who has a product to either
develop or maintain, on a Mac, and given the number of macs out there it
is a cinch that there are NOT more HyperTalk programmers, or even
programmers and dabblers than there are more C, Pascal, LISP, BASIC,
Forth, ect... programmer, or programmers and dabblers.
The evidence is not there, as I said about 5 or 6 years ago this may have
been true, however it is not now. 5 or 6 years ago the HyperTalk community
was uploading all kinds of stuff, and it all dried up, where did all those
programmers go?
Jerome Jahnke
> Of course, the real argument is not over total number of users, but over
> what is the easiest development system/language to learn. Just try this
> experiment. Take 10, a dozen, or a hundred folks with no programming
> experience. Give half of them to an instructor teaching HyperTalk and give
> half of them to an instructor teaching C. Now give them each a day or two
> to learn something simple, like how to put up a dialog that asks for two
> words, then concatenates the words and places them into a textEdit field.
> I realize I've really stacked the deck here, since HyperTalk takes care of
> all the toolbox stuff and that would crush anyone trying to start out in
> C... but that's a large part of my point.
I should stop doing this, I don't mean to be a negative vibe merchant,
however, it really does no one any service to be spreading misinformation.
Your logic is just plain weak.
First off, given tools like AppMaker, or Prototyper any idiot can do this
in just a short of period of time. And string catenation is a particular
strength of HyperTalk, now lets talk about the other things Macs do a
bunch of, sayyyy picture manipulation?
Or lets do relational databases (neither group of novices would be able to
do it with either product, but with a database manager, like ACI*US 4D, or
Microsoft FoxPro, or Ominis or someone else they can) you need to take a
step back and look at what people.
> We all like what we know, and what we already know seems easy to us (and what
> is unfamiliar seems confusing), so we assume that what we already know
> will be easy for others.
You should take this to heart. You continue to make assumptions about my
own background and evironment. So let me make myself CRYSTAL CLEAR.
1) I was a self taught programmer, I have since I got my career
bootstrapped taken quite a few computer science classes.
2) I have used, and continue to use HyperTalk on a weekly basis.
3) I have used and continue to use C on a daily basis.
That is my situation, you seem to think I have an anti HyperTalk bias,
instead I am aware of both sides of the camp. In the late 80's I was in
the middle of what was the most exciting time in HyperCard when people
were uploading all kinds of good software.
You give examples that are meaningless in an attempt to support that
HyperTalk is the best language for novices. It is a great language for
novices, but in reality it is no better than C, however your bias seems to
be getting in your way of thinking clearly.
Some people can't deal with C, others can't deal with HyperTalk, and a
huge portion of people can't deal with either. So perhaps you should stop
stumping so hard on this topic. Accept it for the religious war that it
is. I have never stated C was better than HyperTalk for novices.
The attitude you should adopt, is that each is a tool, and should be
chosen for the job at hand. Teaching someone who wants to learn to program
a game like Doom in HyperTalk is not helping anyone.
But then teaching someone how to program a flat file database in C is a
pretty stupid idea as well given that is the ultimate strength of
HyperCard.
tetsuo384
: I noted that, however, you view seems to be rather biased, lets look at
: released shareware products. After all people are proud of their work and
: release it when it is done. At one time I would have agreed with you that
: there were more hypertalk programmers than there were C and Pascal
: Programmers, but not anymore. A majority of those orginal HyperTalk
: programmers have gone to C and other languages. People eventually jump
: ship.
Not all Staks get released, as shareware or otherwise. The beauty of HC
is that it allows people to write custom apps for thier specific
situations.
: Sales mean nothing, just becuase Microsoft ships millions of copies of
: windows does not mean that windows is being used.
Hypercard is not (usually) bundled. If a copy of HC is moved, it's because
someone wants it.
Cheers,
--
_______________________
______ /__ __/ ____/__ __/ tet...@pcnet.com (frequently)
/__/__/ / / / __/_ / / tets...@aol.com (infrequently)
/__/ /______/ /__/ http://www.pcnet.com/users/tetsuo/
MKlink
chosen for the job at hand. Teaching someone who wants to learn to program
a game like Doom in HyperTalk is not helping anyone.>>
I couldn't agree more. But if that's your point, I don't understand what
the whole brouhaha has been about? I don't think that anyone has been
saying that HyperCard should be used for purposes that other languages are
better designed for - I certainly haven't.
Mark
MKlink
are more people programming comfortably at the HyperTalk level than write
in C, certainly NOT C, Pascal, and Basic combined.>>
Note that I said "on the mac". To settle this we'd have to get the sales
records of HC at Claris and Apple for the development versions of
HyperCard, and compare them with sales of Mac compilers - or some other
reliable figures. I am talking about development versions, not the
"Player" If anyone can clarify and add to this, please jump in. I'd be
glad to be corrected if I am off base here. I know that Apple recently
said that HyperCard was there second best-selling piece of software
(presumably after System software). I can say, anecdotally (though I know
that won't satisfy you), that for every person I know who uses a compiler,
I know approximately 10 people who script in HyperCard. Remember, these
are not "programmers" or people you'll find associated with a computer
department in a university - they're everyday folks taking care of their
own problems, or just having fun putting things together - so they may be
people that you don't encounter in your situation.
Mark Klink
B Molyneau
I thought I'd jump in an offer my observations on HyperTalk vs C
(Macintosh marketplace only).
I view the market like this:
Users - create documents
Builders - create solutions
Programmers - create applications/parts (like XCMDs)
Builders are a subset of Users and Programmers are a subset of Builders.
Programmers use C. If you make your living programming, you pretty much
have to know C (even if you generally prefer to use something else).
Builders who make a living as Builders use HyperCard, SuperCard, Director,
Oracle, Sybase, and many other database and authoring tools, often more
than one - HyperCard probably has the largest base of individual, active
users among Authoring Tools but probably not among Database tools.
Builders who build for the shear enjoyment of it rather than need to make
their living building generally use HyperCard (a very large set of users).
There is lots of overlap as each level I mentioned is a subset of the
previous level - programmers are also builders and users. Where you fall
is more a matter of focus and preference.
Many programmers also work with Authoring tools - consider all the
programmers who write XCMDs. These programmers are likely to work with
both C (or some other language) AND HyperTalk.
Many Builders aspire to be Programmers. In this case they may well be
doing their work in HyperTalk but are learning C - because if you want to
get a job as a Programmer you pretty much have to know C.
In the end, my intutitive sense of all this (no solid facts to back it up)
is that there is probably an equal number of HyperTalk and C users but
because of the overlap (many use both) and the marketablity of C
programmers, it's moving towards C.
In terms of which langauge is better? That depends on whether you are
talking to a Builder or a Programmer. I'm a Builder and I much perfer
HyperTalk to any other langauge I've used.
--Brian
Heizer Software - We Love HyperCard
Questions about our products: heiz...@aol.com
Demos: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/he/heizersw
Jerome Jahnke
I jumped into this becuase someone told me that A) HyperCard was easier to
learn than C, a fallacy if there ever was one. And B) that there were MORE
HyperTalk programmers on the Mac than any other platform, also patently
NOT true.
Greg Salter
j-ja...@uchicago.edu (Jerome Jahnke) wrote:
> I jumped into this becuase someone told me that A) HyperCard was easier to
> learn than C, a fallacy if there ever was one. And B) that there were MORE
> HyperTalk programmers on the Mac than any other platform, also patently
> NOT true.
Jer,
B may or may not be true, it's hard to say. But to say that C is easier to
learn than HyperCard is about the farthest thing from the truth. I don't
know HOW you can think C is easy.
Jerome Jahnke
greg_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Salter) wrote:
> In article <j-jahnke-260...@bio-38.bsd.uchicago.edu>,
> j-ja...@uchicago.edu (Jerome Jahnke) wrote:
>
> > I jumped into this becuase someone told me that A) HyperCard was easier to
> > learn than C, a fallacy if there ever was one. And B) that there were MORE
> > HyperTalk programmers on the Mac than any other platform, also patently
> > NOT true.
>
> Jer,
>
> B may or may not be true, it's hard to say. But to say that C is easier to
> learn than HyperCard is about the farthest thing from the truth. I don't
> know HOW you can think C is easy.
For me it was, how can you say otherwise, now if someone said that
HyperTalk was easier to learn for THEM then there would have been no
argument. As my wife (the journalist) says, all generalizations are false.