Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs in a MacBook Pro from 2008?

[Ant]

Hello.

Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
insert and eject out?

Thank you in advance. :)
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[Steve Fenwick]

In article <zdOdneTl9PJDMnzT...@earthlink.com>,

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
> old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
> insert and eject out?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Definitely not. The mechanism can't grab it properly.

Steve

--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, sidecar in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

[dorayme]

In article
<nospam-97CED7....@news.eternal-september.org>,

Steve Fenwick <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <zdOdneTl9PJDMnzT...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> > MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
> > old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
> > insert and eject out?
> >
> > Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Definitely not. The mechanism can't grab it properly.

You maybe can force it if you cut a hole in a regular coaster and
glue it in. For Pete's sake, wait till the glue dries though, and
sand it smooth.

--
dorayme

[sbt]

In article <zdOdneTl9PJDMnzT...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
> old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
> insert and eject out?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

It is not safe to use the mini-discs or any other sub-standard-sized
discs in any slot-loading drive. Thus the answer is "not only no, but
Hell No!" This is one of the two major negatives, in my opinion, of
Apple's obsession with slot-loaders on all Macs other than the
MacPro...the other is that slot-loaders are slower than tray-loaders.
Their sole advantage is that they are more compact, providing for a
smaller form-factor in the computer case. That doesn't mean that I
don't buy or own Macs with slot-loaders, I just augment them with
external tray-loading units (besides, having two optical drives
provides some benefits when it comes to making backups).

--
Spenser

[sbt]

In article <timstreater-0738...@news.individual.net>, Tim
Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <091220110951253736%dogb...@chaseabone.com.invalid>,

> Why use a tray-loader? I haven't seen or needed to use one of these
> mini-disks for years.

1: Faster and, at least in my experience, less error prone. The
slot-loaders in both my MacBook and iMac pitched about 2% coasters at
6x and 8x, but my tray-loading externals run well under 1% at 16x.

2: Our son and our daughter have camcorders that record to mini-DVDs. I
argued against the cameras when they purchased them about 6-7 years
ago, but they felt the price at the time was too good to pass up. Plus,
I'm the "video guy" in the family, so I'm the one who ends up producing
the home videos from the footage they provide.

Additionally, some computer games that our son was fond of, such as Tom
Clancy's "Politika", came on mini-DVD and he had a good-sized
collection.

--
Spenser

[Shane Badham]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
> old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
> insert and eject out?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Mini-disks in a slotloader are a no-no, as had been said.

However there's another problem. I have received CDs that have a
commmercial lable with self adhesive lable on them. If you use a slot
loader in a CPU (e.g. an iMac or lap-top) which gets hot, the heat
causes the CD and lable to expand at deffernt rates. The result is that
the CD refuses to play after a time in the machine. With music CDs the
sound deteriorates first.

I now use printable CDs for audio, when I want a lable.

Thank goodnes I kept my old Formac tray loading CD-R/RW, DVD-R/RW!!!

--
Thanks and regards, Shane.
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Email: Beware the invalid word! shane at wonk dot demon dot co dot uk
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

[dorayme]

In article
<091220110951253736%dogb...@chaseabone.com.invalid>,
sbt <dogb...@chaseabone.com.invalid> wrote:

> It is not safe to use the mini-discs or any other sub-standard-sized
> discs in any slot-loading drive. Thus the answer is "not only no, but
> Hell No!" This is one of the two major negatives, in my opinion, of
> Apple's obsession with slot-loaders on all Macs

I have a few of these mini disks hanging around, they often come
with drivers on for monitors, mostly the sort of thing PCs but
not Macs ever really need.

--
dorayme

[sbt]

In article <timstreater-660A...@news.individual.net>, Tim
Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <091220111059350900%dogb...@chaseabone.com.invalid>,

> MiniDV much better.

Agreed...I still have and use my old Sony miniDV camcorder, but my wife
much prefers our Canon that records to SSD. In any case, the merits of
tape vs. mass-storage cameras isn't really germane to the discussion of
slot-loading optical drives (unless the mass-storage device uses
miniDVDs).

--
Spenser

[Ant]

> However there's another problem. I have received CDs that have a
> commmercial lable with self adhesive lable on them. If you use a slot
> loader in a CPU (e.g. an iMac or lap-top) which gets hot, the heat
> causes the CD and lable to expand at deffernt rates. The result is that
> the CD refuses to play after a time in the machine. With music CDs the
> sound deteriorates first.

> I now use printable CDs for audio, when I want a lable.

Yeah, those cheap labels suck. :( What about marker writings on the
discs? Are those safe after they dry up?
--
Quote of the Week: "I made my list for my birthday." --Christopher.
"Yeah, what'd you put on there? - A basketball or an ant farm." and
"This could be an ant farm. This could be a microscope or anything."
--Chris from The Pursuit of Happyness movie.
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[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-09 01:51 , Ant wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008?

Nope.

When I bought my SO a MBA, I also bought the Apple external drive.
Sleek. But it would not work on my Mac (the MBA outputs over spec on
power to the USB port).

I returned the Apple drive and bought an ASUS drive instead - which was
also cheaper and thinner.

It has two USB connectors on the cable so that it can draw adequate
power from the host. On the MBA I connect only one connection (there's
adequate current available on it) and on other computers I connect both.

And, of course, it accepts the smaller disks and "card" format CDs in
it's slide out tray.

--
"I see!" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-09 12:51 , sbt wrote:
> In article<zdOdneTl9PJDMnzT...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
>> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008? I know they work fine in the
>> old fashion tray drive, but what about those slot ones that suck in to
>> insert and eject out?
>>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> It is not safe to use the mini-discs or any other sub-standard-sized

The standard sizes are 12 and 8 cm. Apple do not meet the standard with
the slot loader.

OTOH, nor do most automobile CD players.

[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-09 13:00 , Tim Streater wrote:

> Why use a tray-loader? I haven't seen or needed to use one of these
> mini-disks for years.

I receive some marketing and RFP/proposal materials on mini and
"business card" format CD's. Less now than a few years ago but as
recently as this past summer. I bought a tray loader for my SO's MBA
(other post).

[John Varela]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:14:34 UTC, ANT...@zimage.com (Ant) wrote:

> > However there's another problem. I have received CDs that have a
> > commmercial lable with self adhesive lable on them. If you use a slot
> > loader in a CPU (e.g. an iMac or lap-top) which gets hot, the heat
> > causes the CD and lable to expand at deffernt rates. The result is that
> > the CD refuses to play after a time in the machine. With music CDs the
> > sound deteriorates first.
>
> > I now use printable CDs for audio, when I want a lable.
>
> Yeah, those cheap labels suck. :( What about marker writings on the
> discs? Are those safe after they dry up?

Not every printer can print to a printable disc. Avery sells film
labels especially for DVDs.

<http://www.avery.com/avery/en_us/Products/Labels/Media-Labels/DVD-L
abels_08962.htm?N=0&Ns=&refchannel=c042fd03ab30a110VgnVCM10000021181
40aRCRD>

or http://preview.tinyurl.com/cy6wlbt

--
John Varela

[David Empson]

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2011-12-09 01:51 , Ant wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
> > MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008?
>
> Nope.
>
> When I bought my SO a MBA, I also bought the Apple external drive.
> Sleek. But it would not work on my Mac (the MBA outputs over spec on
> power to the USB port).

That's not the reason.

The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
after which it works fine with recent Mac models.

All Macs since about mid 2007 are able to supply more than 500 mA via
their USB ports, for devices which comply with the USB battery charging
specification (which allows the computer to supply up to 900 mA while
communicating at USB 2.0 high speed, if I remember the number right off
the top of my head).

These Mac models also recognise certain Apple peripherals (which are not
battery powered) and supply more current to them. This may include the
Superdrive (I haven't checked) but one example I know is the Apple
aluminium USB keyboard: the computer can supply up to 1100 mA to the
keyboard, allowing the keyboard to supply more than 100 mA to a device
connected to one of the USB ports on the keyboard (e.g. allowing an
iPhone, iPad or iPod to be charged while plugged into the keyboard).

> I returned the Apple drive and bought an ASUS drive instead - which was
> also cheaper and thinner.
>
> It has two USB connectors on the cable so that it can draw adequate
> power from the host. On the MBA I connect only one connection (there's
> adequate current available on it) and on other computers I connect both.
>
> And, of course, it accepts the smaller disks and "card" format CDs in
> it's slide out tray.


--

David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-10 19:04 , David Empson wrote:
> Alan Browne<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2011-12-09 01:51 , Ant wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> Is it safe to use those mini-sized discs (not a regular size) in a 15"
>>> MacBook Pro's disc drive slot from 2008?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> When I bought my SO a MBA, I also bought the Apple external drive.
>> Sleek. But it would not work on my Mac (the MBA outputs over spec on
>> power to the USB port).
>
> That's not the reason.
>
> The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
> other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
> is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
> Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
> bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
> around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
> after which it works fine with recent Mac models.

The basic reason is the USB power level. The rest is implementation detail.

[Ant]

On 12/10/2011 1:26 PM PT, John Varela typed:

Umm, I used these non-printable Avery disc labels before many years ago.
They did not stick well even after pressuring onto the discs for days. :(
--
"To conquer the world, we must be as meticulous and calculating as a
colony of ants on the march." --Julius Caesar
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

[nospam]

In article <VrydnaLlWuhfXXnT...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> When I bought my SO a MBA, I also bought the Apple external drive.
> >> Sleek. But it would not work on my Mac (the MBA outputs over spec on
> >> power to the USB port).
> >
> > That's not the reason.
> >
> > The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
> > other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
> > is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
> > Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
> > bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
> > around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
> > after which it works fine with recent Mac models.
>
> The basic reason is the USB power level. The rest is implementation detail.

no, the power level has nothing to do with it. the only reason is the
custom bridge chip.

[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-11 10:49 , Ant wrote:
> On 12/10/2011 1:26 PM PT, John Varela typed:
>
>>>> However there's another problem. I have received CDs that have a
>>>> commmercial lable with self adhesive lable on them. If you use a slot
>>>> loader in a CPU (e.g. an iMac or lap-top) which gets hot, the heat
>>>> causes the CD and lable to expand at deffernt rates. The result is that
>>>> the CD refuses to play after a time in the machine. With music CDs the
>>>> sound deteriorates first.
>>>
>>>> I now use printable CDs for audio, when I want a lable.
>>>
>>> Yeah, those cheap labels suck. :( What about marker writings on the
>>> discs? Are those safe after they dry up?
>>
>> Not every printer can print to a printable disc. Avery sells film
>> labels especially for DVDs.
>>
>> <http://www.avery.com/avery/en_us/Products/Labels/Media-Labels/DVD-L
>> abels_08962.htm?N=0&Ns=&refchannel=c042fd03ab30a110VgnVCM10000021181
>> 40aRCRD>
>>
>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/cy6wlbt
>
> Umm, I used these non-printable Avery disc labels before many years ago.
> They did not stick well even after pressuring onto the discs for days. :(

Was that due to the surface of the disk (v. the quality of the labels)?

[Alan Browne]

The _reason_ is power. The _implementation_ uses the custom chip to
control which devices the drive will work on.

It is all about the power available on standard USB which is not
sufficient for Apple's external DVD drive. Apple's implementation is by
configuration's known to supply enough power (MacBook Air for example).

My ASUS external drive REQUIRES two USB females to operate to get
required current. On the MBA it works with one only - because the MBA
supplies enough current on that port - over compliance v. the USB spec.

Apple implement so that only specific h/w combos can work. That's why I
returned the drive. I'd rather have the less sexy ASUS that works on
any PC/laptop than the Apple drive that is constrained.

Apple could have simply supplied an additional Y cable with 2 USB males
instead of unduly restricting use of their product through firmware. Or
make the "Y" on the basic cable like ASUS did. Inelegant perhaps but
more versatile.

[nospam]

In article <rNadnZMKg4ErennT...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>> The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
> >>> other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
> >>> is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
> >>> Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
> >>> bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
> >>> around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
> >>> after which it works fine with recent Mac models.
> >>
> >> The basic reason is the USB power level. The rest is implementation
> >> detail.
> >
> > no, the power level has nothing to do with it. the only reason is the
> > custom bridge chip.
>
> The _reason_ is power. The _implementation_ uses the custom chip to
> control which devices the drive will work on.

nope.

the drive will not work with additional power, but will work when the
bridge chip is replaced, even on machines with limited power. the
custom chip looks for specific hardware and will only function if it
finds it.

<http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/macbook-air-superdrive-for-all/>

[Alan Browne]

On 2011-12-11 13:10 , nospam wrote:
> In article<rNadnZMKg4ErennT...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>> The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
>>>>> other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
>>>>> is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
>>>>> Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
>>>>> bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
>>>>> around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
>>>>> after which it works fine with recent Mac models.
>>>>
>>>> The basic reason is the USB power level. The rest is implementation
>>>> detail.
>>>
>>> no, the power level has nothing to do with it. the only reason is the
>>> custom bridge chip.
>>
>> The _reason_ is power. The _implementation_ uses the custom chip to
>> control which devices the drive will work on.
>
> nope.
>
> the drive will not work with additional power, but will work when the
> bridge chip is replaced, even on machines with limited power. the

The _reason_ for it all is power. Period.

[nospam]

In article <B7ydnbRO6NOfknjT...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>>>> The reason that the Apple external SuperDrive doesn't work on anything
> >>>>> other than a MacBook Air (or a Mac Mini without internal optical drive)
> >>>>> is that the device driver only allows it to be used on a Mac model which
> >>>>> Apple supplied without an internal optical drive. The firmware on the
> >>>>> bridge board in the drive enclosure can apparently be hacked to get
> >>>>> around this restriction (presumably by appearing to be a generic drive),
> >>>>> after which it works fine with recent Mac models.
> >>>>
> >>>> The basic reason is the USB power level. The rest is implementation
> >>>> detail.
> >>>
> >>> no, the power level has nothing to do with it. the only reason is the
> >>> custom bridge chip.
> >>
> >> The _reason_ is power. The _implementation_ uses the custom chip to
> >> control which devices the drive will work on.
> >
> > nope.
> >
> > the drive will not work with additional power, but will work when the
> > bridge chip is replaced, even on machines with limited power. the
>
> The _reason_ for it all is power. Period.

did you read the link i gave? you are wrong, period. change the bridge
chip and it works on any host.

[Alan Browne]

Perhaps and I would venture that it draws current slightly over USB spec
maximum laptops such as the MBA provide more current.

Case in point: my ASUS DVD works on the MBA with only one of its males
plugged in to it. But on the iMac it _will not work_ unless both are
plugged in so that it gets adequate current. Likewise on a PC or on a
hub with its own PS.

So, I'm not wrong and neither are you right. It is one of those things
in a grey zone and Apple have provided for more _current_ on the MBA
than the USB spec requires.

[nospam]

In article <U5qdnTNvNtkntnjT...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

there's nothing grey about it. the person who authored that link
*proved* the issue is a custom bridge chip. when it's replaced with a
generic bridge chip, the drive will work where it otherwise did not,
and that's even the same host. changing the chip does not change how
much power the host can source.