Is this a rumor?
An Exile
True or false? I only post because some say Chum confirmed it today
(OOC). So squash the rumor, please.
An
---
An Exile
Hidden
gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
It's a lie, a damn lie, and wrong, too.
Of course, so are you, ya coward. (See? Joebob isn't the only one that
gets on my nerves for cowardice!)
--
His Holiness,
Hidden T. Thoom
High Priest to Mak'ros and
LIFE Explorer
Chum
> Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
Yes, this is a rumor.
<G>
C'mon, you guys are smart -- you can't figure out whether or not
slaughtering 5000 vermine moves your "you are nearing a breakthrough"
message or not?!
--- Helpful GM chimes in ---
It's ONLY a rumor. A damned funny one at that.
Slaughter still means 0xp.
Dispatch was added to give you a hint that you're getting close to
slaughter. There's an awfully big gap between "kill" and "slaughter"
and a lot of it is space where you don't get all that much XP. Now
Dispatch tells you that you're getting down toward that end of things,
and should maybe consider a steeper challenge.
Of course, some people used to measure this by "I slaughter 1 out of
10", then "2 out of 10"...
Kill, Vanq & Slaughter have not changed -- just Dispatch was added as a
finer detail meaning "low-end kill."
--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, ever purchase any product from
any company which gathers addresses from the usenet; period.
Lex
There's no way that's true. And Chum is not a reliable source of info even
if he did say it (the character not the clicker), he was probably messing
with you.
Lex
Lex
> slaughter. There's an awfully big gap between "kill" and "slaughter"
> and a lot of it is space where you don't get all that much XP. Now
> Dispatch tells you that you're getting down toward that end of things,
> and should maybe consider a steeper challenge.
Personally, I think it's not hard to tell when you're close to slaughtering
something. But still, it's a nice touch.
I guess we have to update Scribia again :)
Lex
HWC Gronk
Chum:
> It's ONLY a rumor. A damned funny one at that.
>
> Slaughter still means 0xp.
Well, let's see... all modern CPU's are 2's complement, so if
experience calculations are done using integer, then 0 is 0, end of
story.
But I think IEEE 754 floating point differentiates +0 and -0, so,
*technically* speaking, "0xp" might be "negative", depending on how
the calculation was done....
--
HWC Gronk
An Exile
> In article <8ec4ddb4.02041...@posting.google.com>,
> gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
>
> > Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
> >
> > True or false? I only post because some say Chum confirmed it today
> > (OOC). So squash the rumor, please.
> >
> > An
> > ---
> > An Exile
>
> It's a lie, a damn lie, and wrong, too.
>
> Of course, so are you, ya coward. (See? Joebob isn't the only one that
> gets on my nerves for cowardice!)
Pardon me? Did something fly up yer butt? I really don't care about
your nerves and who gets on them. I was posting the rumor to have it
squashed. If you don't have anything constructive to add, why don't go
back to waving your rattle and soiling your diapers, you rude self
indulgent little snert!
Thanks everyone else, glad it just a rumor.
---
An Exile
Hidden
If you'll notice, I also denied the rumour for the benefit of everyone
with a name.
Chum
<hwcg...@aspen.sweetshade.local> wrote:
> >> Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
> Chum:
> > It's ONLY a rumor. A damned funny one at that.
> > Slaughter still means 0xp.
Chum did not say this.
Helpful GM said this.
Chum would never ...uh... that is...
Chum does not help people with rumors. There, that's pretty close. :)
Chum
<hwcg...@aspen.sweetshade.local> wrote:
> >> Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
> Chum:
> > It's ONLY a rumor. A damned funny one at that.
> > Slaughter still means 0xp.
Chum did not say this.
Helpful GM said this.
Chum would never ...uh... that is...
Chum does not help people with rumors. There, that's pretty close. :)
Chum does, however, add CL:
Sareth
/action wanders off for some aspirin...
-HWC Sareth
Leo
are accurate, its a sort of sketch.
a star = a fictional unit of normal
A pound = any bonuses for a vanquish
Vanquish
**********##
Kill
**********
Dispatch
**
Slaughter
Or put numericly percentagewise
101 to 110ish = vanq
100 to 21 = kill
21 to 1 = dispatch
0 = slaughter
Choose which one is less confusing and as a merely a measure of sence
rather than fact. These are merely my thoughts on the matter and of
course open to debate.
-Leogic
Helpful GM
leo...@earthlink.net (Leo) wrote:
> I'll try an ASCII text scale for a visual representation. No numbers
> are accurate, its a sort of sketch.
>
> a star = a fictional unit of normal
> A pound = any bonuses for a vanquish
>
> Vanquish
> **********##
>
> Kill
> **********
>
>
> Dispatch
> **
>
> Slaughter
[intentionally blank]
> Or put numericly percentagewise
> 101 to 110ish = vanq
> 100 to 21 = kill
> 21 to 1 = dispatch
> 0 = slaughter
>
> Choose which one is less confusing and as a merely a measure of sence
> rather than fact. These are merely my thoughts on the matter and of
> course open to debate.
>
> -Leogic
If you ignore the actual numbers and just go with the "general idea",
you have it exactly right.
...Of course, it only really matters if you add CL:, like I did :)
--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
I never purchase anything from unsolicited commercial e-mail. Ever.
I do not speak for anyone and typically don't like if they try to speak for me.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.
An Exile
> gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
>
> > Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
> >
> > True or false? I only post because some say Chum confirmed it today
> > (OOC). So squash the rumor, please.
> >
> > An
> > ---
> > An Exile
>
> It's a lie, a damn lie, and wrong, too.
>
> Of course, so are you, ya coward. (See? Joebob isn't the only one that
> gets on my nerves for cowardice!)
Can't even post here without being attacked with cheap shots. Excuse
me if I defend myself. Enjoy your little club!
Malkor
> Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
>
> True or false?
Yes.
Malkor
Tom Beer
>gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote
>
>>
>> True or false?
>
>Yes.
>
Ahhhh...that takes me back to my old uni days.
Tom.
Leo
> you have it exactly right.
Yep, I noted the numbers are bogus, and only ment to show an idea of what happens.
-Leo
Michael
> C'mon, you guys are smart -- you can't figure out whether or not
> slaughtering 5000 vermine moves your "you are nearing a breakthrough"
> message or not?!
>
> --- Helpful GM chimes in ---
>
> It's ONLY a rumor. A damned funny one at that.
>
> Slaughter still means 0xp.
>
> Dispatch was added to give you a hint that you're getting close to
> slaughter. There's an awfully big gap between "kill" and "slaughter"
> and a lot of it is space where you don't get all that much XP. Now
> Dispatch tells you that you're getting down toward that end of things,
> and should maybe consider a steeper challenge.
>
> Of course, some people used to measure this by "I slaughter 1 out of
> 10", then "2 out of 10"...
>
> Kill, Vanq & Slaughter have not changed -- just Dispatch was added as a
> finer detail meaning "low-end kill."
Thanks for that feature. Really nice addition.
Is the gap between slaughter/dispatch the same as dispatch/kill?
And how about adding super vanqs or something. I would love to know
when you really raked in the exp for a critter.
Michael
Michael
One trip though the vermine filled shit hole that savannah is and I
wouldnt rank for the rest of my life.
Michael
Maeght
mike...@aol.com (Michael) wrote:
Yep. At 61k slaughters, I'd be in real trouble. Of those 61k, 14.5k
are vermine.
- Maeght
Phelps
mike...@aol.com (Michael) wrote:
> Chum <Chum@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>
> > Kill, Vanq & Slaughter have not changed -- just Dispatch was added as a
> > finer detail meaning "low-end kill."
>
> Thanks for that feature. Really nice addition.
>
> Is the gap between slaughter/dispatch the same as dispatch/kill?
Yeah, this seems to be the exception that proves the "everything new
in CL sucks" rule.
I doubt H-GM will answer this one way or the other, but if you think
back, we had the "old sltr" that was much faster than the now sltr.
There was a curve put in so you get "practically nothing" for a while
instead of "really nothing." I'm guessing that dispatch is the
difference between the old sltr and the new sltr -- the practically
nothing range.
Thanks for the feedback.
HWC for Phelps, dispatching Phelpses of the World to various tasks --
meaning, sending them out to do practically nothing
obBalanceTaxSDB
--
"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually
idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of
us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched.
He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to
despair." -- H.L. Mencken
Sareth
Badlands and the Arena. I still think it could be interesting, so I
thought IÄ…d add it to Sareth Lord once I finally have time to SACWAG. Since
Sareth Lord will be similar to Clan Lord (because IÄ…m too lazy to come up
with anything original and donÄ…t worry about copyright laws) I figured yÄ…all
would have grounds to let me know your thoughts.
Of course, we need to find a way to keep the PK from becoming the driving
force of the game. No problem, we can use the court system, which will be
similar to that in Clan Lord. WeÄ…ll just tweak it a bit to reduce abuse.
Instead of trials happening instantly, weÄ…d set it up so that people had to
be caught and brought to trial. Anyone who had been accused would be
treated just like banished characters. (Because the accuser may not be on
line when the accused is caught, the accuser will make his statement to the
NPC when he makes the accusation, for later replay during the trial.) This
requirement that people have to be caught first does two things. It
prevents one form of abuse by not instantly yanking an innocent out of a
hunt he is critical to, and it adds possibilities for role-play by
encouraging bounty hunters. While this doesnÄ…t seem to be much of a
consequence, the potential ramifications can be big. After all, if entry
into town will lead to capture by Conny Staple, the NPC chief of police,
youÄ…re pretty much denied access to the libraries, trainers, and etc in town
until you face the consequences. Hope you like sleeping in caves where you
donÄ…t gain rankÅ and like hanging out far away from populated places where
bounty hunters hang out. After all, if PK and chains are both enabled, all
a bounty hunter would need to do is PK the pker, drag him to town, and
WHAMO! Conny Staple picks up the perp! Adds new meaning to the phrase
Å‚Wanted: Dead or alive.Ë› In the face of the risk of loss of xp and the
trainers I doubt most mid- or high-level characters would really make a
habit of unjustifiable PK. And those few who do, and are willing to live in
the woods would become mini-quests of their own, entirely player driven.
Å‚Snooky the barbarian just PKed me! IÄ…m adding 100c to the standing reward
of 1500c to the person who brings him in!Ë› Å‚Hey, Mysfit! Gimme a location
on Snooky and IÄ…ll cut you in for 25%Å Ë›
I can see this providing three different benefits to Sareth Lord.
1) Snert control: Zmart-off decides to ruin a hunt in the Grimy Ear passes.
Ax Hell: Hey! Zmart-off is Pking the healers! Somebody stop him!
Mikhail: IÄ…ll horking fuck the fucking horker!
*CRUNCH*
(Later, after the successful conclusion of the hunt, Mikhail is arrested by
Conny Staple)
Hayng Hym: Zmart-off has accused Mikhail of Pking him. Zmart-off, tell
Åšem.
Zmart-off: He Pked me just cuz!
Hayng Hym: That true, Mikhail?
Mikhail: No! The fucking Horker was horking fucking the hunt by fucking
horking the healers! So I horked his fucking ass! Witness: Ax Hell.
Ax Hell: Yup. MikhailÄ…s right.
Jury: Frivilous! Shoot him!
2) RP tool: Sorry-eth is in TCÅ
Sorry-eth: Hey, look! ItÄ…s Loony! SheÄ…s one of them evil Knocks Sorority!
Somebody needs to do something about them!
(Sorry-eth stabs Loony in the back.)
(Later, after Loony is raisedÅ )
Hayng Hym: Loony has accused Sorry-eth of stabbing him in the back. Loony,
whatcha got to say?
Loony: He stabbed me in the back!
(Loony goes off into weepy sylvan hysterics.)
Hayng Hym: Soory-eth, what were you thinking?
Sorry-eth: TheyÄ…re a menace to society! We gotta kill em all to protect
ourselves! Snort, drool, slobber, grunt.
Jury: TheyÄ…re guilty of bad acting! Shoot Åšem both!
3) It allows Clan vs. Clan warfare.
Coach Hero: We members of Darth Hearse have decided you Poke Malones have
no right to town, since you wonÄ…t share your knowledge about the Ochre Orc
Back with us! WeÄ…re gonna kill you every time you try to enter town!
Yore: Actually, I donÄ…t mind themÅ
Coach Hero: Hush, you.
Klear: Bring it on!
Cygnet: Yeah!
Jury: Who cares? LetÄ…s go get lunch.
(Bonus 4th reason! Woohoo!)
3) It gives players another way to express their opinions about updates!
Yore: Hey! That fishing guy is on the dock again!
Phelt and his Angry Heart Band (Baby Jogger on lead guitar, Legs on Bass,
Hinting the Bloom on keyboard, and Kleric on drums, in chorus): The Ballet
Tax sucks donky balls! Kill him!
Chump: Some people have no idea whatÄ…s funÅ
Jury: Pass the pitchforks and torches.
Whataya think?
-HWC Sorry-eth
(Disclaimers: This is a work of fiction. All the characters and events
portrayed in this farce are purely fictional, and any resemblance to real
players or posts is purely coincidental. I have a bridge for sale, cheap,
and some beach front property in the Mojave to sweeten the deal. Anyone who
took any of this seriously needs to get out more. ThatÄ…s a wrap.)
ashe
Sareth <sar...@risingclaw.com> wrote:
> Of course, we need to find a way to keep the PK from becoming the driving
> force of the game. No problem, we can use the court system, which will be
> similar to that in Clan Lord. Wešll just tweak it a bit to reduce abuse.
> Instead of trials happening instantly, wešd set it up so that people had to
> be caught and brought to trial. Anyone who had been accused would be
> treated just like banished characters.
to stop abuse, you're going to treat *accused* exiles as banished
characters? think somebody might be able to abuse that little gem of a
rule?
--
Ashe
Witch, First Class
Sisters of Benevolence
Founding Member, SKA
Shamhat de Leon
> > Wešll just tweak it a bit to reduce abuse.
> > Instead of trials happening instantly, wešd set it up so that people
> > had to
> > be caught and brought to trial. Anyone who had been accused would be
> > treated just like banished characters.
>
> to stop abuse, you're going to treat *accused* exiles as banished
> characters? think somebody might be able to abuse that little gem of a
> rule?
For added realism, why not add administrative delay to court? Last week,
I was deemed inadequate to serve on 3 New York City juries that were to
decide civil cases arising from events in 1993. The equivalent CL hork
would be for me to sue Michael so that he can't get into the library for
the next 2 years, OOC, while he's waiting for his case to come up.
-Shamhat
Helpful GM
<awi...@mac.com> wrote:
Sometimes, when I see ideas like this, I ask the player if it's ok if we
test it by turning the feature on just for them ;) I.e., Sareth, is it
ok with you if I turn on the feature so that any time you're accused of
a crime, your banish-time goes up a couple of days? Just until I have a
good sense of whether this is a good idea or not. <G>
--
Prue
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> In article <awitch-6B6740....@news.uswest.net>, ashe
> <awi...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <B8DF065F.B48%sar...@risingclaw.com>,
> > Sareth <sar...@risingclaw.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Of course, we need to find a way to keep the PK from becoming the
> > > driving force of the game. No problem, we can use the court
> > > system, which will be similar to that in Clan Lord. Wešll just
> > > tweak it a bit to reduce abuse.
>
> > to stop abuse, you're going to treat *accused* exiles as banished
> > characters? think somebody might be able to abuse that little gem
> > of a rule?
>
> Sometimes, when I see ideas like this, I ask the player if it's ok if
> we test it by turning the feature on just for them ;)
Here's a PK idea I think I'd support for Prue Lord. Maybe even for Clan
Lord:
* Exiles who are banished by the court can be killed for the duration of
their banishment. Their names get outlined in red or something to
indicate this status.
* The banished or otherwise (see below) player-killable character cannot
initiate combat against any exile that is not already PK-able.
* Any exile attacking a PK-able person immediately becomes PK-able.
Thus, banished (or otherwise PK-able) folks could try to defend
themselves. Others could also defend them, although in so doing, they'd
become vulnerable to attacks.
* Folks who initiate attacks remain PK-able for one or two real life
days. Library time does not count. You want to try to take somebody
out?... Fine. But you have to be willing to face retribution.
* To cut down on killing in town, post Peacekeeper NPCs in several
locations. Most of the time, they just stand about doing nothing. If
they see someone attack an exile inside the town walls, however, they
pursue them the same way the Stples pursue banished folk. Anyone they
catch is tossed in jail for disturbing the peace. The culprit is also
banished for a day or two. Perhaps there is also a fine. Repeat
offenders get stiffer sentences. Inside the jail building is 100%
PK-free. And there's a Peacekeeper posted right outside.
* Folks could voluntarily turn on their own PK-ablility, either by using
that Banish Me guy in South Farms, or some new NPC that would make you
killable for a time, but without the banishment. This way, groups could
have blood feuds by having one person turn on PK, then everybody taking
a swing at them. Then they could hack each other to bits to their
hearts' content.
* You'd need to implement some sort of command or device (necklace or
ring... not held in the hands) that made you never swing at a PK-able
person so long as the item was equipped. This way, a PK-able snert could
not edge into a close-combat situation and cause folks to accidentally
swing at them, thus becoming killable.
I'm probably missing some abusable loophole, but I don't know what it is.
HGM, you can turn this on just for Prue, next time she gets banished.
I'm guessing it would be fun.
Yours,
Prue.
--
All karma is derserved.
Keep Prue green.
Obey.
Sareth
said, "Anyone who took any of this seriously needs to get out more."
;)
Gotcha.
-HWC Sareth
Michael
> HGM, you can turn this on just for Prue, next time she gets banished.
> I'm guessing it would be fun.
The system you laid out is very close to how UO handles it. Granted the
whole UO world (the side where you can PK anyway) is one giant PK fest,
but it seems to work ok.
PKs have a red name, and you can attack them without "going grey" (that
would let the rest of the players attack you), but PKs can defend
themselves if they are attacked without penalty.
Michael
Hidden
Shrubya <tle...@goatse.cx> wrote:
> gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
> > Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
>
> Although it may look that way, this is NOT c.s.m.g.clanlord.
> Use your damn prefix.
Although it may not look that way to you, your head is infact up your
ass. Kindly remove it and deal with the fact that a few posts slip
through every once in a while. Be glad that we are courteous enough to
use the prefix at all.
--
His Holiness,
sir Hidden T. Thoom
Knight of the South Farms Empire
and High Priest to Mak'ros
Michael Welsh
tlepore-07F446...@news.comcast.giganews.com, the profound and
prolific Shrubya of tle...@goatse.cx articulated:
> gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
>> Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
>
> Although it may look that way, this is NOT c.s.m.g.clanlord.
> Use your damn prefix.
No.
And could you keep up, that post is a couple of weeks old at least.
--
Michael - HWC for Monolith
"May I point out that maybe the Astral Guardians do not like the fact
that they have to wiff most exiles to death as well?" - Katan
Michael
> gr8...@hotmail.com (An Exile) wrote:
> > Rumor is, slaughtering an animal gives you negative experience.
>
> Although it may look that way, this is NOT c.s.m.g.clanlord.
> Use your damn prefix.
Get over it already. The few posts that slip through without CL: are
rare enough that anyone who isnt a total fuck (I know this leaves you
out) should be able to ignore them. Most of them are from people that
are new to the NG, they learn.
And without CL, this NG would have about 5 posts a week. You should be
glad that most CL players do use the prefix. So shut the fuck up
already.
Only a jackass cocksucker posts the same damn post 3 times, and this
isnt loosers.morons.jackass.cocksuckers either.
Michael
Michael
> No.
>
> And could you keep up, that post is a couple of weeks old at least.
Given how little non-CL traffic this place gets, I am not suprised that
someone wouldnt check it for weeks.
Michael
Leo
> In article <awitch-6B6740....@news.uswest.net>, ashe
> <awi...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Sometimes, when I see ideas like this, I ask the player if it's ok if we
> test it by turning the feature on just for them ;) I.e., Sareth, is it
> ok with you if I turn on the feature so that any time you're accused of
> a crime, your banish-time goes up a couple of days? Just until I have a
> good sense of whether this is a good idea or not. <G>
Just as a note, I saw once, when the Badlands first came out - someone
who left the badlands (depart?) was still PK flagged when they wound
up in town. The single individual had a wonderful time running for
their virtual lives to avoid being repeatedly butchered. It was
merely a bug, but I can almost be sure as to the result if a single
individual became PK flagged.
-Allensworth
Michael Hayden
Michael <mike...@aol.com> wrote:
>And without CL, this NG would have about 5 posts a week.
Cause and effect, baby. Cause and effect.
>Only a jackass cocksucker posts the same damn post 3 times, and this
>isnt loosers.morons.jackass.cocksuckers either.
Let me check that From line again... yup, thought so.
Michael Hayden
Michael <mike...@aol.com> wrote:
>Given how little non-CL traffic this place gets, I am not suprised that
>someone wouldnt check it for weeks.
Cause and effect.
Michael Welsh
ubqs57m...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
This newsgroup was pretty slow before Clan Lord. Not as slow as it is now,
but then there aren't exactly tons of adventure games on the Mac anymore
either.
--
Michael
- -
HWC for Monolith The Good
GDI Keeper of Ferocious Squirrels,
Bard with no instrument,
and Powerful solo hunter since version 3. ;-)
Shamhat de Leon
> >> Given how little non-CL traffic this place gets, I am not suprised that
> >> someone wouldnt check it for weeks.
> >
> > Cause and effect.
>
> This newsgroup was pretty slow before Clan Lord. Not as slow as it is now,
> but then there aren't exactly tons of adventure games on the Mac anymore
> either.
>
> --
> Michael
> - -
> HWC for Monolith The Good
Please, Gaia, help Monolith to make this response only once...
-Shamhat
Michael
> >
> > Sometimes, when I see ideas like this, I ask the player if it's ok if we
> > test it by turning the feature on just for them ;) I.e., Sareth, is it
> > ok with you if I turn on the feature so that any time you're accused of
> > a crime, your banish-time goes up a couple of days? Just until I have a
> > good sense of whether this is a good idea or not. <G>
>
> Just as a note, I saw once, when the Badlands first came out - someone
> who left the badlands (depart?) was still PK flagged when they wound
> up in town. The single individual had a wonderful time running for
> their virtual lives to avoid being repeatedly butchered. It was
> merely a bug, but I can almost be sure as to the result if a single
> individual became PK flagged.
>
> -Allensworth
Thats because it was a rare thing. If it was more common people wouldnt
care all that much.
I really dont think PK would change CL that much. There is just nothing
that PKs would gain by killing people, and PKs would be to well known.
Michael
Michael
Prue
mike...@aol.com (Michael) wrote:
I don't know much about UO, but what you describe doesn't sound
particularly similar to PrueLord PK. From what you write, am I correct
to assume that a whole mob of folks could attack a PK-able person, and
the victim would have to try to fend them off single-handedly? Doesn't
seem like the PK-able person would stand much of a chance. They'd get
killed or run away, and all their attackers are safe from retribution.
That's the end of that. But maybe I misunderstand.
What I proposed was a method that would allow for rapidly expanding
opt-in PvP battles: Prue gets banished. A bunch of Prue-haters try to
ambush her. Prue calls for her glassy-eyed thoom army -- the dreaded
Legion of Thoom -- to defend her. Next thing you know, you've got a big
fight going on, and smaller duels may continue for days. But folks who
want nothing to do with it are perfectly safe.
Lundar
> > Just as a note, I saw once, when the Badlands first came out -
> > someone who left the badlands (depart?) was still PK flagged when
> > they wound up in town. The single individual had a wonderful time
> > running for their virtual lives to avoid being repeatedly butchered. It
> > was merely a bug, but I can almost be sure as to the result if a single
> > individual became PK flagged.
> Thats because it was a rare thing. If it was more common people
> wouldnt care all that much.
> I really dont think PK would change CL that much. There is just nothing
> that PKs would gain by killing people, and PKs would be to well known.
I actually think that it would be pretty interesting in Clan Lord if
there was more PKing in Clan Lord. It would be neat if there was a
/PK command, which would turn on a PK flag. You still wouldn't be
able to attack others who didn't have their PK flags on, but anybody
else could attack you. When you got tired of getting PKed, you could
simply turn off your PK flag.
Having consensual PK could open up a lot of rp possibilities, since
you wouldn't have to run all the way to the Badlands to roleplay a
duel between two exiles, and I think it would be a lot of fun.
-Lundar
Lex
> you wouldn't have to run all the way to the Badlands to roleplay a
> duel between two exiles, and I think it would be a lot of fun.
>
> -Lundar
I agree. Someone mentioned the possibility of a /duel or /duelwith command.
I'd really like to see that implemented just for RP reasons.
Lex
Psion
(Michael) wrote:
>Get over it already. The few posts that slip through without CL: are
>rare enough that anyone who isnt a total fuck (I know this leaves you
>out) should be able to ignore them. Most of them are from people that
>are new to the NG, they learn.
>
>And without CL, this NG would have about 5 posts a week. You should be
>glad that most CL players do use the prefix. So shut the fuck up
>already.
>
>Only a jackass cocksucker posts the same damn post 3 times, and this
>isnt loosers.morons.jackass.cocksuckers either.
>
Hmmm ... maybe you should look yourself in the mirror before saying such
things, eh?
-Peace
--
Author of Realmz' Sword Lands Trilogy
(http://www3.sympatico.ca/pierreh.vachon/home.html)
noivad
> Here's a PK idea I think I'd support for Prue Lord. Maybe even for Clan
> Lord:
>
> * Exiles who are banished by the court can be killed for the duration of
> their banishment. Their names get outlined in red or something to
> indicate this status.
>
> * The banished or otherwise (see below) player-killable character cannot
> initiate combat against any exile that is not already PK-able.
>
> * Any exile attacking a PK-able person immediately becomes PK-able.
> Thus, banished (or otherwise PK-able) folks could try to defend
> themselves. Others could also defend them, although in so doing, they'd
> become vulnerable to attacks.
I'd make an addition that the Sheriff's office (My Deputies and I)
could attack a PKable person without turning on our flag for others,
the PKable person would be able to defend themself however. Once
fallen to a Police officer the person gets teleported to jail for 15
RL minutes. I'd also add a few NPC deputies in town for when no
Officers are in town to defend people.
People could turn on a PK flag for specific people or groups. for
instance:
"/PK Eyeball" would message Eyeball "Noivad has challenged you to a
duel, if you accept type /PK Noivad" and if he did only we two could
try to kill each other so long as we had our flag on. The flag would
remain on for a minimum of 15 RL minutes -- that way people couldn't
wuss out at the last second before they die.
Also, typing "/PK OWE" would translate to "Black Unicorn has declared
war on OWE" if OWE accepted they'd type "/PK BU" A clan war flag would
remain in effect for one day or until both parties type /upk <clan
name>. Once both clans type that the war would be over -- again there
would be a 15 minute minimum.
typing "/pk all" would act as in Prue Lord, with all banishments in
effect, and all combatants would have to confirm their intention to
attack with a red flag item around worn around the neck -- or
something.
M
Garscow
> Michael <mike...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >And without CL, this NG would have about 5 posts a week.
>
> Cause and effect, baby. Cause and effect.
You're suggesting that because people regularly talk here about Clan
Lord that other games are discussed less. Would you like to prove this?
Maybe there's any one of a number of reasons that has caused what you
think is a reduction of non-CL posts here.
For example: Less people playing "adventure" games.
Greater use of web boards and web based discussions.
General unhelpfulness of people in the group who talk about things other
than CL.
It's been pointed out here before that before Clan Lord was talked about
in this group, there was very little traffic, maybe even less non-CL
posts than there is now. It's also been pointed out that given the
increase in total internet users, there has been a marked relative drop
in the use of newsgroups in general.
> >Only a jackass cocksucker posts the same damn post 3 times, and this
> >isnt loosers.morons.jackass.cocksuckers either.
>
> Let me check that From line again... yup, thought so.
We've all (all being everyone in this group -- that talks about CL)
accepted Michael's colourful language. Do you think everyone who swears
more than three times a day of being unworthy of listening to? Or are
you just continuing a prejudice?
Garscow
Michael
Michael
> I don't know much about UO, but what you describe doesn't sound
> particularly similar to PrueLord PK. From what you write, am I correct
> to assume that a whole mob of folks could attack a PK-able person, and
> the victim would have to try to fend them off single-handedly? Doesn't
> seem like the PK-able person would stand much of a chance. They'd get
> killed or run away, and all their attackers are safe from retribution.
> That's the end of that. But maybe I misunderstand.
That is correct, and it does happen sometimes. But it happens far less
than you think it would. People dont travel in groups like they do in
CL. For the most part a PK can avoid groups of people if they want to.
Michael
Michael
> In article <1fapjln.6n9jem1xn66cgN%mike...@aol.com>, mike...@aol.com
> (Michael) wrote:
>
>
> >Get over it already. The few posts that slip through without CL: are
> >rare enough that anyone who isnt a total fuck (I know this leaves you
> >out) should be able to ignore them. Most of them are from people that
> >are new to the NG, they learn.
> >
> >And without CL, this NG would have about 5 posts a week. You should be
> >glad that most CL players do use the prefix. So shut the fuck up
> >already.
> >
> >Only a jackass cocksucker posts the same damn post 3 times, and this
> >isnt loosers.morons.jackass.cocksuckers either.
> >
>
>
> Hmmm ... maybe you should look yourself in the mirror before saying such
> things, eh?
>
> -Peace
Fuck you too.
Michael
Phelps
noi...@mac.com (noivad) wrote:
> I'd make an addition that the Sheriff's office (My Deputies and I)
> could attack a PKable person without turning on our flag for others,
> the PKable person would be able to defend themself however.
The only problem I have with this is the "my deputies and I" part.
Sheriff Nopey and his deputies are the only lawful peacekeepers in the
occupied town known commonly as Puddlesby.
King Phelps the Everlasting
South Farm Empire, which does include the occupied town of Puddlesby
--
"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually
idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of
us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched.
He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to
despair." -- H.L. Mencken
Tigger
garsNO...@ihug.co.nz (Garscow) wrote:
> We've all (all being everyon рin this group -- that talks about CL)
> accepted Michael's colourful language.
Someone needed to fill the void left by Gurgi and Outcast. Hidden goes a
long way towards keeping Helpful frustrated and Michael has the caustic
frustration angle covered. It works pretty well.
- Tigger
Babajaga
> Interesting idea. What does DAoC stand for, Tove?
As others have said, Dark Age of Camelot. At level 13, your character are
able to participate in the ongoing wars with other Realms. Before that,
you play as you would in any other regular MMRPG.
From the outside, it sounds rather boring, raiding a keep defended by
other players, and then do the same thing all over again next day, and the
day after. With no seemingly visible goal, than just keep trying to
control more keeps. I haven´t quite found out what and where the fun is,
but friends tell me it is. Of course, all based on second reports. It´s
all PC.
You can´t PK anyone from your own Realm, and you have a "safe zone", that
protects your character from the roaming bands of mean ones from other
Realms, if they don´t attack and are successfull that is..
It´s an interesting concept, and the only game I can think of where PK
adds something, instead of it being a snert-attracting device. It can be
fun to fall.
tovemi
--
Babajaga Vanimalda, The Fleet <http://www.red-quill.org/babajaga/>
swc´s rants <http://coldnsnowy.nomad-souls.org/>
remove the SPERRE to reply
Psion
(Michael) wrote:
>Fuck you too.
>
>Michael
Hmmm. I see that civility is something some people have no concept about.
You have my sympathy, you poor man.
-Peace (for the last time).
Chum
<pierreh.vachon-...@sherbrooke-hse-ppp3605177.sympatico.ca>
, pierreh...@sympatico.ca (Psion) wrote:
> In article <1favqd0.14mztd5v04ferN%mike...@aol.com>, mike...@aol.com
> (Michael) wrote:
> >Fuck you too.
> >Michael
> Hmmm. I see that civility is something some people have no concept about.
> You have my sympathy, you poor man.
> -Peace (for the last time).
I'm curious, are you signing this as if your name is "Peace"? Or are
you saying "Peace to you", after a series of snotty, arogant,
argumentative and offensive insults?
It's funnier if the later, but I didn't want to start laghing until I
was sure that you went by "Psion" and not "Peace", as a name.
(Whew, THAT was close!)
Btw, you can't win a "I plan to get in the last word" fight with Michael
-- he's an ex-olympian turned professional, he'll mop of the floor with
you.
-Luck
--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, ever purchase any product from
any company which gathers addresses from the usenet; period.
Algar
he's getting himself in to here. He prolly though "Wow! What a wretched
human! Can't this person think in an intelligent, reasonable way?"
Personally, I laugh out loud when I read Michaels posts. "Fuck you too."
It just has that certain 'ring' to it...
Psion... lost cause. No one really knows how intelligent Michael is. It
wavers to such a degree that it baffles the 'pshrinks' even. One day you
can relate, the next it's just "Fookin Horkin A§§ Munchin Ēųēk Smokin!"
crazy §hit. Don't feel sorry for him. He likes it that way?
-Algar
Damn! I'm amused!
Michael
> In article <1favqd0.14mztd5v04ferN%mike...@aol.com>, mike...@aol.com
> (Michael) wrote:
>
>
> >Fuck you too.
> >
> >Michael
>
> Hmmm. I see that civility is something some people have no concept about.
> You have my sympathy, you poor man.
>
> -Peace (for the last time).
What part of "fuck you too" makes you think I give a shit about
civility?
So, to sum it up:
Fuck you, fuck civility, fuck your sympathy, fuck what you think, and
fuck peace.
Got the idea now?
Michael
Chum
mike...@aol.com (Michael) wrote:
> Psion <pierreh...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
You forgot "fuck concepts" and "fuck 'the last time'" -- but s/he was
probably lying about that part, anyway.
Fuckin' ay!
Warren J. Dew
This newsgroup was pretty slow before Clan Lord.
There were times when it was very busy - much more so than now. It tended to
go in cycles, with high traffic when a new Realmz or Exile adventure was
released, and lows in between.
I suspect the highs have definitely been suppressed in part by the tendency of
Clan Lordies to pig pile on any non-CL person's slightest transgression.
Warren J. Dew
Powderhouse Software
Helpful GM
If you mean shrubya -- you have to admit that he was quite snotty about
it; he sorta "drew the foul". Not exactly a "slight transgression."
Still, CLers do seem to be a proud bunch...
But I think that a lot more has to do with Realmz & Exile not putting
out so much stuff, anymore. Realmz doesn't seem to be putting out
ANYTHING, which is kind of a drag. I remember there was a flurry of
activity about 2 yrs ago, but nothing since.
I'm sure that if NWN ever went Mac, they'd hit here big. Or if Lance or
Shadowbane (what are THOSE guys up to?!) ever get off the ground, we'll
see lots of traffic for them...
--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
I never purchase anything from unsolicited commercial e-mail. Ever.
I do not speak for anyone and typically don't like if they try to speak for me.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
20020422203156...@mb-cg.aol.com, the profound and prolific
Warren J. Dew of psych...@aol.com articulated:
> Clan Lordies to pig pile on any non-CL person's slightest transgression.
Slightest transgression? The only time we say anything negative is if they
whine when we forget to tag CL to the post.
--
Michael - HWC for Monolith
"You'd better go get a snack. This is a long Fishwrap." - Paramedic the
Thoom
Michael Hayden
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
>Slightest transgression? The only time we say anything negative is if they
>whine when we forget to tag CL to the post.
Think about that. I mean REALLY think about that...
Helpful GM
(Michael Hayden) wrote:
To be fair, the recent "dog pile" wasn't because shrubya whined, but
because he was snotty about it. I'm fairly certain that if he'd said
anything along the lines of "please try to remember to 'CL:' your
posts", he'd've gotten a "oops, sorry" rather than the blasting that he
so deserved.
So, traffic in csmga seems to be something like this:
CL: 98%
Discussion about non-CL posts in csmga: 1.4%
Discussion about how much traffic csmga used to have: 0.4%
Discussion about whether CL belongs in another, possibly new, newsgroup:
0.0198%
Talk about csmga other than CL: 0.0002%
<G>
Ok, that's an exaggeration -- but it's pretty close :) Hey, there's a
BG2 post, right now!
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ucaqnao...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Slightest transgression? The only time we say anything negative is if they
>> whine when we forget to tag CL to the post.
>
> Think about that. I mean REALLY think about that...
Ok. Just did. We tag about 98% of our threads with CL. Sometimes we forget.
Is that so horrible? The responses we get when we forget can be pretty rude.
Sometimes we respond in kind.
--
Michael, HWC for Monolith
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." - Douglas Adams
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
HelpfulGM-F338D...@ca.news.verio.net, the profound and prolific
Helpful GM of HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com articulated:
> Ok, that's an exaggeration -- but it's pretty close :) Hey, there's a
> BG2 post, right now!
Ooops, better run them no good BGers out!
--
Michael HWC for Monolith
"A real man fights with bracers. Cloth ones. <g>"
Sutai
Warren J. Dew
part:
If you mean shrubya -- you have to admit that he was quite
snotty about it; he sorta "drew the foul".
Sure. Par for the course, of course - say, about as snotty as the average
poster here, or anywhere else on usenet for that matter.
If it weren't for the Clan Lord posters, though, the average nasty post would
draw one (1) nasty reply. Some would draw more than one, some would draw none,
but given most replies to nasty posts are nasty, the average can't be greater
than 1, or the traffic would increase or decrease exponentially.
Because the Clan Lord folks check this group frequently, though, and are of a
mind about this, his nasty post gets lots of nasty replies, rather than only
one. The dynamic results in a lot more negative feedback towards posters who
don't post about Clan Lord.
You might say that it shouldn't be a problem for people who never post anything
that offends. I would reply, if you restricted this group to posters who never
offended anyone, you wouldn't have any traffic at all any more, Clan Lord or no
Clan Lord.
I'm not complaining about this, mind - that's just the way usenet works.
Anytime a newsgroup gets to be predominantly traffic about one subtopic, other
subtopics tend to be suppressed.
I'm sure that if NWN ever went Mac, they'd hit here big.
Or if Lance or Shadowbane (what are THOSE guys up to?!)
ever get off the ground, we'll see lots of traffic for
them...
Shadowbane is still in Beta. Actually, some of my favorite Clan Lord
characters are playing less because their players are beta testers for
Shadowbane.
It's likely it'll be discussed in a cross platform newsgroup, rather than here,
though. I've only posted here regarding Lineage because it doesn't seem to
have a newsgroup home - they seem to want their discussion primarily on their
own web pages.
Haven't heard of Lance - what's that?
Helpful GM
> Haven't heard of Lance - what's that?
Several folks' attempt to SACWAG. It actually showed some promise,
although I think they ran into the problem of "well, the easy part was
easy but, man!, the rest isn't as easy as we thought it'd be" syndrome.
Still, they make a resurgence here every 6 months or so. Check Google,
I think they released a "beta" (?) a while back, and it was so so, but
they have heart (sort-a), so maybe it'll get better. I sort-of half
root for them, because many who started it were among the voiciferous
"hell, anybody can do better than that!" types in Clan Lord for a while.
---
HEY YOU LANCE GUYS!!!
What's up? Post your URL again? Is the server running? Are you making
progress? I want to play Lance, dammit! :)
(Don't you just KNOW that some Lance GM is just *itching* to knock Chum
on his ass... <G>)
ser Slyph
psych...@aol.com (Warren J. Dew) wrote:
[some snipping]
> Because the Clan Lord folks check this group frequently,
> though, and are of a mind about this, his nasty post gets lots
> of nasty replies, rather than only one. The dynamic results
> in a lot more negative feedback towards posters who don't post
> about Clan Lord.
I agree with this. If many people kill posts that are
labeled with 'CL:', then the few posts they DO see from
CL-posters are the responses to the odd 'go get yer own
newsgroup' post. Many are just as nasty.
> You might say that it shouldn't be a problem for people who
> never post anything that offends. I would reply, if you
> restricted this group to posters who never offended anyone,
> you wouldn't have any traffic at all any more, Clan Lord or no
> Clan Lord.
This sounds like speculation. And bad, cynical speculation,
at that. I don't subscribe to this view, because it's a
generalzation of posters.
> I'm not complaining about this, mind - that's just the way
> usenet works. Anytime a newsgroup gets to be predominantly
> traffic about one subtopic, other subtopics tend to be
> suppressed.
Can you explain how this is possible? That when 'a
newsgroup gets [predominant] traffic about one subtopic, other
subtopics tend to be suppressed'? Do posts about one topic
supress other topics, keeping those threads invisible to others?
Do these same posts somehow crowd out other topics from being
stored on newservers?
I'm honestly asking. Right now, I'm not convinced that Clan
Lord posts are in any way suppressing other posts. I don't
understand how this might be possible. Right now, I simply note
the lack of other topics to be a possible sign that other posters
don't have much they feel they need to post about, given the
category of this newsgroup, or that there aren't many Macintosh
adventure games to post about.
-Slyph
--
"Maybe true for you, but not true for everyone."
-Michael
Shamhat de Leon
GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> So, traffic in csmga seems to be something like this:
>
> CL: 98%
> Discussion about non-CL posts in csmga: 1.4%
> Discussion about how much traffic csmga used to have: 0.4%
> Discussion about whether CL belongs in another, possibly new, newsgroup:
> 0.0198%
> Talk about csmga other than CL: 0.0002%
I'd break up the "CL" in that to represent 60% game discussion, 30%
philosophy (including structure of government and weapons issues), 5%
(usually silly) role-playing, and 3% personal bickering.
-Shamhat
Hidden
Shamhat de Leon <sha...@vagilemind.com> wrote:
> I'd break up the "CL" in that to represent 60% game discussion, 30%
> philosophy (including structure of government and weapons issues), 5%
> (usually silly) role-playing, and 3% personal bickering.
You've got the first and last one reversed.
"You always do that, fuck you bitch!"* <g>
--
HWC for Hidden <hid...@no-op.com>
"Nietzsche is dead." -God
* clue for the clueless: IT WAS A JOKE.
Hidden
ser Slyph <sl...@sisna.kom.no.spam> wrote:
> > You might say that it shouldn't be a problem for people who
> > never post anything that offends. I would reply, if you
> > restricted this group to posters who never offended anyone,
> > you wouldn't have any traffic at all any more, Clan Lord or no
> > Clan Lord.
>
> This sounds like speculation. And bad, cynical speculation,
> at that. I don't subscribe to this view, because it's a
> generalzation of posters.
It may be a generalization, but that doesn't mean it ain't generally
true. The only [regular] poster on this newsgroup who doesn't seem to
offend anybody is Ann, and while the Ann GM Monologue Hour posted
biweekly would be interesting, that's not the point of this group.
Sareth
3%? I'm not posting enough...
-HWC Sareth
Sareth
for fantasy role-play? I know the PC has some awesome stuff, but I refuse
to turn to the dark side of the force just to have something more convenient
than a pencil and piece of paper.
Chiefly what I want is something that can generate maps randomly or can take
direct input for generation, the ability to manipulate terrain from a world
level all the way down to the 1/20 scale (or better). I need ability to not
only create natural terrain, but map out cities and buildings, preferably
with the ability to add manipulatable comments. (I know, not asking for
much, am I.)
I used to do all this by hand, but recently lost all my hand made resources
in a firkin disaster.
-HWC Sareth
Who gives a damn?
> In article <20020423142442...@mb-fp.aol.com>,
> psych...@aol.com (Warren J. Dew) wrote:
>
> > Haven't heard of Lance - what's that?
>
> Several folks' attempt to SACWAG. It actually showed some promise,
> although I think they ran into the problem of "well, the easy part was
> easy but, man!, the rest isn't as easy as we thought it'd be" syndrome.
>
> Still, they make a resurgence here every 6 months or so. Check Google,
> I think they released a "beta" (?) a while back, and it was so so, but
> they have heart (sort-a), so maybe it'll get better. I sort-of half
> root for them, because many who started it were among the voiciferous
> "hell, anybody can do better than that!" types in Clan Lord for a while.
>
> ---
>
> HEY YOU LANCE GUYS!!!
>
> What's up? Post your URL again? Is the server running? Are you making
> progress? I want to play Lance, dammit! :)
>
> (Don't you just KNOW that some Lance GM is just *itching* to knock Chum
> on his ass... <G>)
I think it was www.alchemist-guild.com *shrugs*
Tom Beer
<20020423142442...@mb-fp.aol.com>...
>
> I'm sure that if NWN ever went Mac, they'd hit here big.
I'm not so sure. It seems like all the BG2/IWD/NWN traffic is over at
http://ire.mainecoon.net/cgi-bin/IREForum/YaBB.cgi (and was at
www.macbaldur.net before this).
I guess that's another reason why the non-CL volume in this forum is so low.
Tom.
Tom Beer
>
>I used to do all this by hand, but recently lost all my hand made resources
>in a firkin disaster.
>
No! No! No! You're supposed to do it all on the computer, then have the hard
disk crash and go BACK to doing it by hand.
Tom.
Aerizith
> psych...@aol.com (Warren J. Dew) wrote:
>
> > Haven't heard of Lance - what's that?
>
> Several folks' attempt to SACWAG. It actually showed some promise,
> although I think they ran into the problem of "well, the easy part was
> easy but, man!, the rest isn't as easy as we thought it'd be" syndrome.
>
> Still, they make a resurgence here every 6 months or so. Check Google,
> I think they released a "beta" (?) a while back, and it was so so, but
> they have heart (sort-a), so maybe it'll get better. I sort-of half
> root for them, because many who started it were among the voiciferous
> "hell, anybody can do better than that!" types in Clan Lord for a while.
>
> ---
>
> HEY YOU LANCE GUYS!!!
>
> What's up? Post your URL again? Is the server running? Are you making
> progress? I want to play Lance, dammit! :)
>
Not much. "http://www.Lance-RPG.com/". Nope. Games done, no art(Or
artist for that matter)
> (Don't you just KNOW that some Lance GM is just *itching* to knock Chum
> on his ass... <G>)
Yes, we are. hehe
Aerizth
Michael
> You forgot "fuck concepts" and "fuck 'the last time'" -- but s/he was
> probably lying about that part, anyway.
>
> Fuckin' ay!
I know, I am baiting the looser. I have plenty of free time.
Michael
Leo
There's Lunar Cell (if you know the tricks) and Bryce 3D. There's
also, yes, rendering everything by good ole pen and ink or brush and
paint.
-Allensworth
Sareth
In point of fact, that's the case. The only diff is I was using my mouse as
the pencil, and a drawing program as the paper... The images were never
backed up as they measured in the multi-meg range and I never had any device
capable of holding that much memory... dammit.
-HWC Sareth
Russell Fredrickson
> What's up? Post your URL again? Is the server running? Are you making
> progress? I want to play Lance, dammit! :)
As I write this, the current URL for Lance is http://www.lance-rpg.com . Also, I
believe that the text along the lefthand side about him finding a new lead artist
and partner was updated since 2/19/01; in the last six months, I think, although I
can't remember exactly when.
A couple betas have been released, I believe, one of which I ran fine, but I never
actually got the one that connected to a server running. They've since pulled
that from the website.
I'd kinda like to see Lance make it, too. I'm not sure if Ryan remembers, but he
said he'd give me a free copy back when it was just going to be a single-player
game and I was a tester for it. ;)
Rusty (HWC for Valtrim)
Aerizith
>
> I'd kinda like to see Lance make it, too. I'm not sure if Ryan remembers, but he
> said he'd give me a free copy back when it was just going to be a single-player
> game and I was a tester for it. ;)
>
> Rusty (HWC for Valtrim)
That's nothin, I hope he remembers that he said he'd give me the game
free copy with six months, a free house, and my own snell to start my
guild. Lets hope he comes through ;-)
Michael
3%? You do read this NG right?
I figure at least 15% of the posts are me fighting with someone or
bitching about something.
Michael
Helpful GM
mike...@aol.com (Michael) wrote:
> I figure at least 15% of the posts are me fighting with someone or
> bitching about something.
>
> Michael
Slyph?
It's funnier if you know that it's really closer to 33% ;)
Speedier of the Sun Dragons
>
> > I'm not complaining about this, mind - that's just the way
> > usenet works. Anytime a newsgroup gets to be predominantly
> > traffic about one subtopic, other subtopics tend to be
> > suppressed.
>
> Can you explain how this is possible? That when 'a
> newsgroup gets [predominant] traffic about one subtopic, other
> subtopics tend to be suppressed'? Do posts about one topic
> supress other topics, keeping those threads invisible to others?
> Do these same posts somehow crowd out other topics from being
> stored on newservers?
>
>
I don't think it's that other subtopic gets suppressed. it just "feels"
that way. Much of how people interpret things is subjective. For
instance there were 181 new messages in this group since the last time I
checked. (I think it was about 3 days) About 30 of them where
non-ClanLord. So this seems like a small amount. But during the same
time frame, in c.s.m.games.action there were 24 new messages. So
compared to that group, this one has the same traffic, or slighly more
traffic.
Speedier
Warren J. Dew
Can you explain how this is possible? That when 'a
newsgroup gets [predominant] traffic about one subtopic,
other subtopics tend to be suppressed'? Do posts about
one topic supress other topics, keeping those threads
invisible to others?
Mostly I've observed it empirically, both in this newsgroup and in several
other newsgroups I follow. I think it's more that posts on one topic encourage
posters interested in that topic, and a higher percentage of posters interested
in one topic hurts the signal to noise ratio on other topics. What I believe
happens is as follows.
Suppose you have a newsgroup in steady state on a single topic. A poster posts
two posts, one an off topic flame and one a topical and informative post. The
signal to noise ratio (informative posts to flames) is 1:1.
In steady state, and simplifying a bit, the off topic flame draws one flame
response, and the topical post draws one topical response. The signal to noise
ratio of these responses is also 1:1. If the original poster responds to all
of these, he'll write one flame and one topical post; he'll still be posting
with a signal to noise ratio of 1:1.
Now suppose you have this same situation, but in addition to this steady state
two post a day situation, you have nine times as many posts on a different
topic, with a commensurate nine times larger following of readers and posters
on that different topic.
The original poster still posts his flame and his topical post, starting with a
signal to noise ratio of 1:1.
Now, because there are ten times as many people who are responding to flames
with flames, his flame post gets ten responses. His topical post, however,
only gets the original one response, since the other 90% of the posters don't
care about his topic. As a result, he sees a much worse signal to noise ratio
in the responses to his post, 1:10 instead of 1:1.
Worse yet, if he responds to all these posts, his own signal to noise ratio
goes down to the same 1:10. And since he has limited time for posting, these
eleven responses will take eleven units of time instead of two. His topical
posting rate on his favored topic goes down to one per eleven posts instead of
one per two posts.
If he posts two posts a day, the posting rate on his minority topic is now only
one per 5.5 days - little more than one per week - where it would have been the
much higher rate of one per day had that predominant other topic not been
there.
I think there are other effects, too - it's harder to pick out posts on
minority topics, for example. But I think those effects are smaller than the
effect outlined above.
Helpful GM
(Warren J. Dew) wrote:
> Slyph responds to me:
>> Can you explain how this is possible? That when 'a newsgroup gets
>> [predominant] traffic about one subtopic, other subtopics tend to be
>> suppressed'? Do posts about one topic supress other topics, keeping
>> those threads invisible to others?
> Mostly I've observed it empirically, both in this newsgroup and in several
> other newsgroups I follow.
[snip, strange conclusions drawn from even stranger assumptions]
> If he posts two posts a day, the posting rate on his minority topic is now
> only one per 5.5 days - little more than one per week - where it would have
> been the much higher rate of one per day had that predominant other topic not
> been there.
>
> I think there are other effects, too - it's harder to pick out posts on
> minority topics, for example. But I think those effects are smaller than the
> effect outlined above.
>
> Warren J. Dew Powderhouse Software
This is the problem with empirical observation vice science. Empirical
observation leads us to all sorts of entertaining superstitions. Here's
one: the Earth looks flat. Here's a better one: I have no trouble
"reading" a newsgroup that gets 800+ posts a day and following the 2-5
threads that actually interest me, ignoring the rest. Heck, I don't
even use filters, there.
I'm pretty sure that CL traffic hasn't impacted csmga other traffic any
more than it would've been impacted by historic events. Of course,
neither of us can prove this, since proof relies on gathering data from
a course of history that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure. For
superstitious reasons :)
I agree with your sig/noise idea, though -- the more active a group is,
the more re-flames are drawn to flames. If only a handful of people are
posting, there are fewer folks to flame-back.
Michael Hayden
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>I'm pretty sure that CL traffic hasn't impacted csmga other traffic any
>more than it would've been impacted by historic events. Of course,
>neither of us can prove this, since proof relies on gathering data from
>a course of history that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure. For
>superstitious reasons :)
Wow. "I don't believe it, so it can't be true."
Well, for what it's worth, I'll just add my anecdotal evidence to
Warren's: I know several people who no longer read this newsgroup because
they got tired of fighting to be heard amongst the CL horde. They now go
to the alt.games.* hierarchy for help with specific games. They don't
necessarily want to -- it's always nicer to discuss with fellow Mac users
rather than l33t PC kiddies -- but it's the path of least resistance.
Helpful GM
(Michael Hayden) wrote:
> In article <HelpfulGM-2A458...@ca.news.verio.net>,
> Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm pretty sure that CL traffic hasn't impacted csmga other traffic any
> >more than it would've been impacted by historic events. Of course,
> >neither of us can prove this, since proof relies on gathering data from
> >a course of history that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure. For
> >superstitious reasons :)
>
> Wow. "I don't believe it, so it can't be true."
<G> That's not significantly different from "I believe it, so it must
be true", you know. Not much of an argument, really -- but you're
right, which is why I added "for superstitious reasons."
> Well, for what it's worth, I'll just add my anecdotal evidence to
> Warren's: I know several people who no longer read this newsgroup because
> they got tired of fighting to be heard amongst the CL horde. They now go
> to the alt.games.* hierarchy for help with specific games. They don't
> necessarily want to -- it's always nicer to discuss with fellow Mac users
> rather than l33t PC kiddies -- but it's the path of least resistance.
You actually know people who felt that, trying to get help with another
game, they had to "fight to be heard amongst the CL horde"?!
I don't believe it, so it can't be true ;)
But seriously -- I just have trouble imagining any rational person
having this difficulty. If anything, the CL horde helps out in
discussions about other games -- they're a very polite group, when not
accosted by some "despite appearances, this isn't the CL newsgroup, you
know" type crap. I've been reading here for a long time, and never seen
anyone be anything but helpful with questions about Realms, BG, EV,
Monkey Isle, etc.
About the only time I've seen the CL horde harsh on someone is if they
ask for warez or if they open beligerantly when someone forgets to CL: a
post. Well, and that one guy who seemed to be announcing a finished
product web-game when he was actually asking for initial-idea feedback
-- but that was mostly miscommunication. It sure SOUNDED like he was
announcing a finished product. (Anime web "adventure game" of sorts.
Lady-Owl, or something like that.)
But back to this thread -- do you REALLY know people who felt that they
couldn't be heard above all the CL posts?! Were they CLers or ex-CLers?
I'm just really having a hard time understanding this.
Michael Hayden
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>But back to this thread -- do you REALLY know people who felt that they
>couldn't be heard above all the CL posts?!
Yes, really -- and your raging incredulity doesn't help, either.
>Were they CLers or ex-CLers?
Non-CLers. Not interested in MMORPGs at all. Therefore, when a mob of new
people arrived and discussed almost nothing but one single MMORPG (as far
as I know, you guys promote this newsgroup as your primary forum, even for
people who don't normally read Usenet), they felt ridiculously outnumbered
and out of touch.
Regardless of the actual number of posts before/after the arrival of CL,
c.s.g.m.a no longer -felt- like a friendly, general purpose Mac gaming
group. Instead it had become an unwieldy mass of CL cliques and in-jokes.
Even worse, if someone didn't play CL and dared to say so, they were
bombarded with the question "Well why not!?"
(Heck, that still happens today. It just happens less frequently because
there are fewer non-CLers left.)
Given the state of Mac gaming, there is almost always an alt.games.*
newsgroup already established for a particular game by the time the Mac
port of it is released. In the long run, it's just easier to go there than
it is to stay here. Sure, you CLers may accomodate the occasional non-CL
question, but the old sense of community has been deposed and replaced by
another.
This newsgroup is now effectively alt.games.clanlord in everything but
name. Threads about any other games are simply handled like off-topic
chatter. You may not admit it or even perceive it, but you are solidly on
the inside. To us non-CLers, it is frustratingly obvious.
>I'm just really having a hard time understanding this.
*gasp* You think maybe that's part of the problem...? Sheesh.
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud37j1a...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
Really? Going to a group that discusses many games that aren't even on the
Mac is easier than discussing in a group for Mac only games? There have been
plenty of non-clanlord threads here that have had very nice answers. We
don't attack non-clanlord threads so why would anyone feel ANY resistance in
posting here.
I can't recall a non-clanlord thread here that didn't get answered, unless
it was spam, can you?
--
Michael HWC for Mono
"I don't care how many simpering idiots are in disagreement with me,
they're still wrong." -- Outcast
Jeanne
mha...@rawbw.com (Michael Hayden) wrote:
> Given the state of Mac gaming, there is almost always an alt.games.*
> newsgroup already established for a particular game by the time the Mac
> port of it is released. In the long run, it's just easier to go there than
> it is to stay here. Sure, you CLers may accomodate the occasional non-CL
> question, but the old sense of community has been deposed and replaced by
> another.
>
> This newsgroup is now effectively alt.games.clanlord in everything but
> name. Threads about any other games are simply handled like off-topic
> chatter. You may not admit it or even perceive it, but you are solidly on
> the inside. To us non-CLers, it is frustratingly obvious.
So you're saying that this newsgroup has to have an equal number of
posts about other games to be fair and equal? This doesn't make any
sense because anyone and everyone can post questions and comments here
and anyone and everyone can reply to it. Just because there are many
people here talking about Clan Lord doesn't mean that you can't start a
new topic about something else. I'm sure that we will comment on that
topic with as much intelligence and thoughtfulness as we do with Clan
Lord topics.
The real reason that this newsgroup doesn't get so many non-Clan Lord
topics is because many publishers and developers have their own web
boards that people post to when they have problems with a certain game
or have decided to frequent a few select web boards. For example, when I
had problems with Escape Velocity Nova (EVN) I went to Ambrosia's web
board instead of coming here. Not because the people here aren't
wonderful but I figured it'd be best to go to the spot with the most
people who are players of the game I have trouble with.
Another reason is that it's hard to figure out which genre to place the
questions in with the current trend of combining genres. Is EVN an
adventure or action game? It's both really so which group to put the
question in? Sure, I could cross-post if I wanted to but I'd rather not
do that and some people don't know how to do that.
> >I'm just really having a hard time understanding this.
>
> *gasp* You think maybe that's part of the problem...? Sheesh.
There's really no reason to be so rude. If you are trying to inform
someone of your point of view, insulting them is a bad idea as well as
being uncalled for.
--
Jeanne's Legacy <http://jeanne.puddleby.info>
Warrior Monk of the PKM <http://pkm.puddleby.info>
Senior Fishwrap Editor <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishwrapmagazine/>
Catenae member & webmaster <http://catenae.puddleby.info>
Member of the ThoomCare Affiliates chain gang <http://www.thoomcare.com>
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud3hur7...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> Non-CLers. Not interested in MMORPGs at all. Therefore, when a mob of new
> people arrived and discussed almost nothing but one single MMORPG (as far
> as I know, you guys promote this newsgroup as your primary forum, even for
> people who don't normally read Usenet), they felt ridiculously outnumbered
> and out of touch.
Are these insecure children we are speaking of? Is it their first attempt at
Usenet? I have read and posted regularly in other news groups for many years
and it would be easy to feel overwhelmed in any group that has frequent
posts.
> Regardless of the actual number of posts before/after the arrival of CL,
> c.s.g.m.a no longer -felt- like a friendly, general purpose Mac gaming
> group. Instead it had become an unwieldy mass of CL cliques and in-jokes.
> Even worse, if someone didn't play CL and dared to say so, they were
> bombarded with the question "Well why not!?"
>
> (Heck, that still happens today. It just happens less frequently because
> there are fewer non-CLers left.)
Sounds a little paranoid to me. Please cite examples of non-CLers being
badgered for not playing Clan Lord. And instances where they posted rude,
anti Clan Lord posts can count too, but they don't hold as much weight. "I
just couldn't get in to Clan Lord" Vs. "D00d KlAn LoRd Suxx!"
> Given the state of Mac gaming, there is almost always an alt.games.*
> newsgroup already established for a particular game by the time the Mac
> port of it is released. In the long run, it's just easier to go there than
> it is to stay here. Sure, you CLers may accomodate the occasional non-CL
> question, but the old sense of community has been deposed and replaced by
> another.
To me, it seems wiser to go there. The PC community has already had the game
for months, they have more experience. Posting it in a group where everyone
else just got their copy might not get the best results.
> This newsgroup is now effectively alt.games.clanlord in everything but
> name. Threads about any other games are simply handled like off-topic
> chatter. You may not admit it or even perceive it, but you are solidly on
> the inside. To us non-CLers, it is frustratingly obvious.
There is much off-topic chatter here and it gets lots of attention. I go
weeks and months without clanning. I have been occupied with my Playstation
2 as I haven't found many Mac games that I like. Yes, I play Clan Lord and
so I am on the inside, but that just makes the non-clanlord posts that much
more obvious to me. They have been lacking and had been even before Clan
Lord came to town.
--
Michael HWC for Monolith
"A real man fights with bracers. Cloth ones. <g>"
Sutai
Michael Hayden
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
>Really? Going to a group that discusses many games that aren't even on the
>Mac is easier than discussing in a group for Mac only games?
I said they went to the alt.games.* hierarchy. There are plenty of
newsgroups in that hierarchy which cover specific adventure games
available on the Mac. Just a few examples of recent releases:
alt.games.baldurs-gate
alt.games.black-white
alt.games.diablo2
alt.games.icewind-dale
alt.games.lucas-arts.monkey-island
alt.games.myst.3exile
alt.games.the-sims
Go to any of those newsgroups and you will find plenty of Mac gamers who
gave up on this newsgroup.
>There have been plenty of non-clanlord threads here that have had very
>nice answers. We don't attack non-clanlord threads so why would anyone
>feel ANY resistance in posting here.
>
>I can't recall a non-clanlord thread here that didn't get answered, unless
>it was spam, can you?
You're not even listening to what you're saying anymore. In your own mind,
it's "Clan Lord... and everything else." You take it so much for granted
that's it's become reflexive. -That's- the problem.
Michael Hayden
Jeanne <jea...@puddleby.info> wrote:
>So you're saying that this newsgroup has to have an equal number of
>posts about other games to be fair and equal?
Nothing is fair. I was simply making an observation: this newsgroup is now
so overwhelmingly focused on CL that it has developed its own community
and mythos, one that has displaced the previous "general purpose" nature
of the group.
>I'm sure that we will comment on that topic with as much intelligence and
>thoughtfulness as we do with Clan Lord topics.
There's that "we" again. You don't even realize what you're saying...
>The real reason that this newsgroup doesn't get so many non-Clan Lord
>topics is because many publishers and developers have their own web
>boards that people post to when they have problems with a certain game
>or have decided to frequent a few select web boards.
Or, like I said, the alt.games.* hierarchy. Path of least resistance.
>There's really no reason to be so rude. If you are trying to inform
>someone of your point of view, insulting them is a bad idea as well as
>being uncalled for.
*snort* You think that's rude? Try coming over to this side, where you get
people like youself and Helpful GM and Michael Welsh saying over and over,
"It's all in your imagination, we're not stopping you, there's nothing
worth complaining about."
I don't actually expect things to go back to the way the were. This is a
permanent sea change in the newsgroup. I just wish you guys would stop
pretending nothing has happened.
Michael Hayden
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
>Are these insecure children we are speaking of?
An attitude like that, and you still wonder why people complain and/or
leave. Wow.
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud3l96l...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> You're not even listening to what you're saying anymore. In your own mind,
> it's "Clan Lord... and everything else." You take it so much for granted
> that's it's become reflexive. -That's- the problem.
Well percentage wise it is "Clan Lord... and everything else." It's just
that the everything else part hasn't ever been that strong a presence here.
I just find it sad that you and some others need to be so antagonistic about
it.
--
Michael HWC for Monolith
"If you are trying to be a Phelps of the World, then you probably are. :-)"
- HWC for Phelps
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud3m38p...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> There's that "we" again. You don't even realize what you're saying...
She realizes that she is referring to herself and the other members of the
CL community and thus she uses "we" to mean that.
--
Michael HWC for Monolith
"A real man fights with bracers. Cloth ones. <g>"
Sutai
Chum
(Michael Hayden) wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do the words "insecure children" not appear in
the alt.games.* hierarchy? Are those groups filled with intelligent
on-topic posts that are always flame free? If I were to pick an
alt.games.* group and complain that the newcomers there had ruined the
group from the era of bliss that it was back in the day, would I be met
with open, nurturing replies and a desire to "return this group to its
roots"?
Or does their ("your"?) shit stink, too?
Enquiring minds want to know.
--
You have to remove your clothes if you want me to read your e-mail.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, ever purchase any product from
any company which gathers addresses from the usenet; period.
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud3m38p...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> *snort* You think that's rude? Try coming over to this side, where you get
> people like youself and Helpful GM and Michael Welsh saying over and over,
> "It's all in your imagination, we're not stopping you, there's nothing
> worth complaining about."
>
> I don't actually expect things to go back to the way the were. This is a
> permanent sea change in the newsgroup. I just wish you guys would stop
> pretending nothing has happened.
I still say you are sounding paranoid. Really, "It's all in your
imagination, we're not stopping you, there's nothing
worth complaining about."
--
Michael -- HWC for Monolith
'The whole point of punishing evil is to get them to stop it. What
society thinks to itself "well, we can't make the punishments TOO harsh,
or no one will be able to afford to be evil..." ?!' -- HGM
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)
ud3m7c9...@corp.supernews.com, the profound and prolific Michael Hayden
of mha...@rawbw.com articulated:
> In article <B8F74C1A.9C1E7%monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com>,
No really, I'm not wondering that at all. I'm still waiting to see proof of
this mass exodus you speak of. My point was that Usenet is a big scary place
and anybody could easily feel overwhelmed in any high traffic group.
--
Michael HWC for Monolith
"VIM! Very important monsters. Send them over a 5-course exile
dinner to make sure their stay in the Lok'grotons is comfortable. =)"
- - Kodo
Michael Hayden
Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
>Well percentage wise it is "Clan Lord... and everything else." It's just
>that the everything else part hasn't ever been that strong a presence here.
>I just find it sad that you and some others need to be so antagonistic about
>it.
I'm not being antagonistic. I'm being realistic. Like I said elsewhere in
this thread, I don't actually expect things to change back. I just get
really fed up with "you and some others" forever insisting that things are
as they have always been. They aren't. This newsgroup is now effectively
alt.games.clanlord, and people have left because they don't play that
game. Just deal with it.
(Heck, I'm arguing your side here. You should be thanking me for it rather
than denying the reality of it.)