Restoring iPad backup

[Howard Brazee]

I just submitted this to Apple's feedback site:

Yesterday I replaced my 3rd generation broken iPad. I got home and
figured restoring would be easy - except my IOS is more current than
the iPad's. It started upgrading the IOS, and I apparently wasn't
paying attention because it created a backup as well. When I tried
to restore from backup, I could not get my real backup which had been
overwritten - even though I changed the device name.

So I tried Time Machine, without success.
So I took it to the Genius bar where the Genius tried Time Machine
without success.

So there are two enhancements I think are important:
1. Improve the installation procedure - if the iPad is new, allow it
to match the IOS of the backup and backup without me staying around
for the time it takes.
2. Improve Time Machine to allow consumers and Geniuses to restore
our device backups.

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-13-2012 17:14, Howard Brazee wrote:
> I just submitted this to Apple's feedback site:

[snip stuff I agree with]

> 2. Improve Time Machine to allow consumers and Geniuses to restore
> our device backups.

"Genius" apparently didn't know much about Time Machine or iTunes.

Shouldn't be hard to restore to the Mac everything associated with
the device from any backup set, and then restore the device from that.

[David Empson]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> I just submitted this to Apple's feedback site:
>
> Yesterday I replaced my 3rd generation broken iPad. I got home and
> figured restoring would be easy - except my IOS is more current than
> the iPad's. It started upgrading the IOS, and I apparently wasn't
> paying attention because it created a backup as well. When I tried
> to restore from backup, I could not get my real backup which had been
> overwritten - even though I changed the device name.
>
> So I tried Time Machine, without success.

Did you look in the right place?

In recent versions of iTunes, iOS device backups are stored here:

~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup

(That's the Library folder inside your home folder.)

If you are running Lion or later, the ~/Library folder is hidden, but
you can get to it in Finder by holding down the Option key, clicking on
the "Go" menu, and choosing Library.

As long as your Library folder is being backed up with Time Machine
(which it normally is), then you you should be able to restore an older
backup by going back in time on this folder, picking an older version of
the backup for your old iPad, and restoring it, possibly with a
different name to avoid a conflict with the current one.

The trick might be working out which backup is for that iPad.

Each backup is a folder named as a long string of hex digits: the
device's UDID, which you can find by clicking on the serial number of
the device in the Summary view in iTunes.

If you have multiple backups for the same device (which sometimes
happens when there is a major iOS version upgrade - the old backup is
left behind), the extra backups have a couple of additional numbers on
the end of the folder name, separated by a hyphen. They are a packed
form of the date and time of that backup (xxx...xxx-YYYYMMDD-HHMMSS).

In this case you don't have the original device, so you might have to
identify the old device's UDID by a process of elimination.

A possibly helpful tip: you can match device backups to the folders in
the above list by going into iTunes > Preferneces > Devices, noting the
name and last backup date/time for each backup listed there, and compare
with the modification date/time of each folder.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Beli]

In article <1ktk3zs.11hhiac2jkarxN%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson

<dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> > I just submitted this to Apple's feedback site:
> >
> > Yesterday I replaced my 3rd generation broken iPad. I got home and
> > figured restoring would be easy - except my IOS is more current than
> > the iPad's. It started upgrading the IOS, and I apparently wasn't
> > paying attention because it created a backup as well. When I tried
> > to restore from backup, I could not get my real backup which had been
> > overwritten - even though I changed the device name.
> >
> > So I tried Time Machine, without success.
>
> Did you look in the right place?
>
> In recent versions of iTunes, iOS device backups are stored here:
>
> ~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup
>
> (That's the Library folder inside your home folder.)
>

What I see in that folder is a lot of rubbish, photos I didn't take
myself, icons, etc. It doesn't look like a backup, only storage of some
stuff I may once have looked at on my iPad browser or used in Keynote.

[David Empson]

That is where the backup is stored on recent versions of iTunes, which
is easily confirmed by deleting an old (and unwanted) device backup from
inside iTunes, and observing the corresponding folder being deleted.

The backups used to be stored in ~/Library/MobileBackups, but some time
in last year they were moved to the folder I mentioned earlier. Probably
around iTunes 10.5, judging from the timeline.

There are applications which can browse through the backup and reveal
the original names of each of the files and the owning app, rather than
the encoded name that iTunes uses.

The backup includes settings managed by iOS, and all files private to
each iOS app which the app has decided needs to be backed up. Documents
you have in Keynote on the iPad would definitely be in the backup, but I
wouldn't expect cached web pages to be there. PDFs or other documents
you had opened from a web page in another app might be, depending on
whether the other app wanted them backed up.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Beli]

In article <1ktkris.1xmyg5zpm0i25N%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson

If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?
Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?
Can one take measures to create a complete backup of the iPad?

[nospam]

In article <141120121343490590%baihe...@xs4all.nl>, Beli

<baihe...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
> course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?

no

> Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
> while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?

very possible. just set up the new ipad from the backup of the older
ipad.

that won't affect the other device. you'll have two identically
configured devices.

going forward, each will have their own separate backups and you can
change things on each without affecting the other.

> Can one take measures to create a complete backup of the iPad?

sync in itunes. it's that simple.

[Beli]

In article <141120120749084520%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <141120121343490590%baihe...@xs4all.nl>, Beli
> <baihe...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
> > course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?
>
> no
>
> > Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
> > while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?
>
> very possible. just set up the new ipad from the backup of the older
> ipad.

And that backup is to be found in the home/library/application
support/mobilesync/backup folder? The items I find in this folder are
weird, pictures of people I don't know, covers of books I never saw,
sports images, all stuff that seems totally redundant, and a few plists
(Info.plist, Status.plist and Manifest.plist) and an mdbd document
(Manifest.mbdb).
I guess the books and apps stored on the old iPad would have to be
downloaded or listed again from the iTunes sync on my mac then or from
the sellers.

[nospam]

In article <141120121359586355%baihe...@xs4all.nl>, Beli

<baihe...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> > > If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
> > > course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?
> >
> > no
> >
> > > Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
> > > while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?
> >
> > very possible. just set up the new ipad from the backup of the older
> > ipad.
>
> And that backup is to be found in the home/library/application
> support/mobilesync/backup folder?

that's where it is but you don't need to go there. let itunes handle
it. all you need to do is start the restore process by telling itunes
to set up a new ipad from a previous backup. that's it.

> The items I find in this folder are
> weird, pictures of people I don't know, covers of books I never saw,
> sports images, all stuff that seems totally redundant, and a few plists
> (Info.plist, Status.plist and Manifest.plist) and an mdbd document
> (Manifest.mbdb).

the names are cryptic and there's a lot of redundant stuff, but it's
all your data. itunes knows how to decode it.

> I guess the books and apps stored on the old iPad would have to be
> downloaded or listed again from the iTunes sync on my mac then or from
> the sellers.

books, music, movies and apps are elsewhere on your computer, except
for what is stored in the cloud, such as with itunes match.

when you restore from a backup, itunes knows where to look to get that
stuff and will sync that too.

all you need to do is set up the new ipad from a backup of another
idevice (it doesn't even have to be the same type of device) and let
itunes do the rest. depending on how much stuff there is, it may take a
while, so once you set it motion, go do something else and come back in
a couple of hours.

[Beli]

In article <141120120830383902%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

OK, thanks for the information. I'm growing out of my iPad, so I'm
thinking of buying a 32 GB one.

[Howard Brazee]

Yeah, we got the right place. There was some permissions problem
restoring - and the genius said there were funny things trying to
restore iTunes stuff from backup if we don't want to restore the whole
computer.

Fortunately, last month, I did connect my iPad to my wife's computer,
and was able to restore on hers. I'm still discovering passwords
(Kindle & my Wi-Fi were first) that need to be reset though for the
new hardware. My grandsons will lose some recent saved games (no big
deal). I haven't

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:43:49 +0100, Beli <baihe...@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
>course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?
>Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
>while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?
>Can one take measures to create a complete backup of the iPad?

It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords. My problem was that it
didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.

My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
safety.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:40:00 +0100, Beli <baihe...@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

>OK, thanks for the information. I'm growing out of my iPad, so I'm
>thinking of buying a 32 GB one.

Some people say you don't need much space - use the cloud. But I'm
not a fan of getting everything on-line (and can't everywhere). I'm
cheap with my phone's access, and don't have 3g on my pad.

I easily have far more music than can fit on my biggest iPad, and may
have more music as well. I have culled half of the apps my
grandkids don't use, but need to cull more so I can have more audio or
photos available. That is without saving movies on it.

[nospam]

In article <g9i7a8l3njr39q9fu...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee

<how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.

it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.

> My problem was that it
> didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.

that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.

> My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
> safety.

that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
erase the device.

[Beli]

In article <g9i7a8l3njr39q9fu...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee
<how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:43:49 +0100, Beli <baihe...@xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >If my iTunes with my iPad stuff is on Snow Leopard and my iPad of
> >course has an iOS can this pose problems for backup?
> >Say, you buy a new iPad, how do you put all your stuff on the new iPad
> >while still maintaining some stuff on the old iPad? Is that possible?
> >Can one take measures to create a complete backup of the iPad?
>
>
> It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords. My problem was that it
> didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.
>
> My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
> safety.

Good idea. Thanks.

[Beli]

In article <141120121148306206%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

But a backup on an external drive will work though?

[nospam]

In article <141120121845502635%baihe...@xs4all.nl>, Beli

<baihe...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> > > It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> > > everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
> >
> > it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.
> >
> > > My problem was that it
> > > didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.
> >
> > that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.
> >
> > > My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
> > > safety.
> >
> > that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
> > erase the device.
>
> But a backup on an external drive will work though?

you don't control the backup. itunes puts the data where it wants and
maintains it. itunes also maintains what music, movies, etc. you've
decided to sync, which exists elsewhere on your computer (or in the
cloud in some cases).

you can move the backup folder to another drive if you want, but that
will happen normally when you back up your main hard drive anyway.

when you set up from a previous backup or restore from one, itunes
takes care of what goes where.

[Beli]

In article <141120121251232555%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

Okie dokie. thanks.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:48:30 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <g9i7a8l3njr39q9fu...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee
><how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>> It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
>> everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
>
>it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.

Both times I replaced an iPad, it did not restore wifi passwords.

>> My problem was that it
>> didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.
>
>that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.

Weird. My other upgrade included an up-to-date IOS on the new
device.

>> My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
>> safety.
>
>that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
>erase the device.

My wife's computer has a copy of my iTunes. Maybe that's why it
worked.

[nospam]

In article <pju7a8h8oufijtepo...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee

<how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> >> It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> >> everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
> >
> >it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.
>
> Both times I replaced an iPad, it did not restore wifi passwords.

that's odd. every time i've restored from a backup, whether it's
upgrading to a new firmware or to a new device, all wifi networks
connect just as they did before, which means the passwords have been
restored too.

> >> My problem was that it
> >> didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.
> >
> >that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.
>
> Weird. My other upgrade included an up-to-date IOS on the new
> device.

the new device will almost always have the same or newer os than the
backup. this is not a problem. it's the usual case.

where it might not work (never tried) is going backwards. for example,
taking a backup made on ios 6 and using that to set up a device running
ios 5. apple stops signing older firmwares, so this is not a likely
scenario, but not impossible.

> >> My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
> >> safety.
> >
> >that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
> >erase the device.
>
> My wife's computer has a copy of my iTunes. Maybe that's why it
> worked.

did you migrate it at one point?

[David Empson]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <g9i7a8l3njr39q9fu...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee
> <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> > It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> > everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
>
> it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.

My iPhone 5 didn't restore WiFi passwords when I set it up from the
backup of my iPhone 3GS. Nor did my iPad 2 when I restored it from the
backup of my iPad 1.

> > My problem was that it didn't work with my replacement having an older
> > IOS than my backup.
>
> that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.
>
> > My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
> > safety.
>
> that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
> erase the device.

You can manually back up an iOS device to any copy of iTunes without
synchronizing them. Ctrl-click or right-click on the iOS device icon
under the Devices heading in the left column and choose "Back Up". I
just did this using my partner's Mac, and I didn't have to synchronize
anything.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[nospam]

In article <1ktlfry.1wzkygt11d7t1N%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson

<dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> > > It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> > > everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
> >
> > it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.
>
> My iPhone 5 didn't restore WiFi passwords when I set it up from the
> backup of my iPhone 3GS. Nor did my iPad 2 when I restored it from the
> backup of my iPad 1.

maybe they changed it recently, but i definitely took advantage of this
a couple of years ago. i forgot what a password was for a particular
wifi network, one which i used on occasion, and when i accessed it with
the updated device (same phone, maybe that's why), it connected without
issue. had it not, it would have been a big pain. this was probably
4.x->5.x and was a full restore.

[David Empson]

My iPad 2 would have been 4.x -> 4.x, but I can't be certain I've
remembered that minor detail correctly from more than 18 months ago.

My iPhone 5 was 5.x -> 6.x and it definitely needed WiFi passwords
entered again. I don't recall being directly involved in any other iOS
device restores from backup in the last year or so, but I was already
aware of the WiFi passwords being lost from seeing other reports of it.

A Google search suggests this might be a quite recent change: I found a
thread from December 2011 which claimed that WiFi passwords were backed
up in a keychains.db file in the iTunes backup (the name would have been
obscured, of course).

Apple may have changed the backup rules in a relatively recent iTunes
update to eliminate the risk of passwords being extracted from the
backup.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-14-2012 01:05, David Empson wrote:
> The trick might be working out which backup is for that iPad.

Restore all of them for the date you want, fix your iPad, then put them
all back to today.

--
Wes Groleau

“It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it
goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the
world.”
— Thomas Jefferson

[nospam]

In article <1ktlonv.q1whxh14twnsbN%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson

<dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> > > > > It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
> > > > > everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
> > > >
> > > > it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.
> > >
> > > My iPhone 5 didn't restore WiFi passwords when I set it up from the
> > > backup of my iPhone 3GS. Nor did my iPad 2 when I restored it from the
> > > backup of my iPad 1.
> >
> > maybe they changed it recently, but i definitely took advantage of this
> > a couple of years ago. i forgot what a password was for a particular
> > wifi network, one which i used on occasion, and when i accessed it with
> > the updated device (same phone, maybe that's why), it connected without
> > issue. had it not, it would have been a big pain. this was probably
> > 4.x->5.x and was a full restore.
>
> My iPad 2 would have been 4.x -> 4.x, but I can't be certain I've
> remembered that minor detail correctly from more than 18 months ago.

i've done that upgrade too and do not recall needing to reenter wifi
passwords then either.

> My iPhone 5 was 5.x -> 6.x and it definitely needed WiFi passwords
> entered again. I don't recall being directly involved in any other iOS
> device restores from backup in the last year or so, but I was already
> aware of the WiFi passwords being lost from seeing other reports of it.
>
> A Google search suggests this might be a quite recent change: I found a
> thread from December 2011 which claimed that WiFi passwords were backed
> up in a keychains.db file in the iTunes backup (the name would have been
> obscured, of course).

that would explain the discrepancy.

> Apple may have changed the backup rules in a relatively recent iTunes
> update to eliminate the risk of passwords being extracted from the
> backup.

and thereby inconveniencing users.

just how often were wifi passwords unknowingly extracted from backups
on people's hard drives anyway?

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:18:24 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <pju7a8h8oufijtepo...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee
><how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>> >> It's normally straight forward - except "complete" doesn't include
>> >> everything - such as Wi-Fi passwords.
>> >
>> >it restores wifi passwords. it may not restore other passwords, however.
>>
>> Both times I replaced an iPad, it did not restore wifi passwords.
>
>that's odd. every time i've restored from a backup, whether it's
>upgrading to a new firmware or to a new device, all wifi networks
>connect just as they did before, which means the passwords have been
>restored too.
>
>> >> My problem was that it
>> >> didn't work with my replacement having an older IOS than my backup.
>> >
>> >that's not a problem. in fact, that's the normal case when upgrading.
>>
>> Weird. My other upgrade included an up-to-date IOS on the new
>> device.
>
>the new device will almost always have the same or newer os than the
>backup. this is not a problem. it's the usual case.

In this case it wasn't. I was replacing a 3rd generation iPad, so
maybe it was sitting in the store for a month or so.

>where it might not work (never tried) is going backwards. for example,
>taking a backup made on ios 6 and using that to set up a device running
>ios 5. apple stops signing older firmwares, so this is not a likely
>scenario, but not impossible.
>
>> >> My solution is to back up your old one on more than one computer for
>> >> safety.
>> >
>> >that won't work, because attempting to sync with another computer will
>> >erase the device.
>>
>> My wife's computer has a copy of my iTunes. Maybe that's why it
>> worked.
>
>did you migrate it at one point?

I just copied it. But the backups aren't in the iTunes directories.
I also needed to plug it into her computer.