pine, iTerm, TERM, color, mouse, remote, local
NM Public
the midst of experimenting with different settings and I'm
wondering if anyone has any advice? The issues I'm particularly
interested in are:
* When I turn color on in Pine, the background iTerm window
color is gray. How can I make it white? I've tried everything I
can think of!
* What is the best combination of iTerm Terminal type (vt100,
xterm, xterm-color, rxvt, ansi) and TERM environment variable?
* When I enable-mouse-in-xterm in Pine, I *can* use the mouse
in Pine when I run Pine on a remote system (via ssh), but the
mouse does *not* work when I run Pine locally (i.e., when I run
Mac Pine). Does anyone know how to get the mouse to work when
Pine is running locally? Do I need to ssh to localhost first?!
All iTerm advice is welcome, whether you use Pine or not. I'm
kind of going nuts trying to experiment with every combination of
iTerm Keyboard Profile, iTerm Terminal Type, iTerm Terminal
Encoding, iTerm colors, TERM environment variable, and various
Pine mouse and color settings.
Thank you for any tips or advice!
Nancy
--
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com/>
Bookmarks & Blog: <http://deflexion.com/>
D P Schreber
On 2006-06-06, NM Public <ago...@nm.deflexion.com> wrote:
> I'm experimenting with running pine in iTerm on Mac OS X.
In my experience, console apps like this almost always run better in
screen than they do directly in either Terminal or iTerm. I don't use
pine myself (you should consider mutt, which is an immensely more
sophisticated mail client), but it's easy enough to try. You can ignore
TERM if you use screen.
> * When I enable-mouse-in-xterm in Pine, I *can* use the mouse
> in Pine when I run Pine on a remote system (via ssh)
You're using an xterm or other X11 terminal emulator on the remote
system? If so, that's why it works. Use an xterm locally, instead of
iTerm or Terminal, and it will probably work there too.
You _might_ get some limited mouse behavior in Terminal via option-click
if you set corresponding Keyboard preference. I know this works in
emacs and vim in a Terminal for simple things like cursor positioning.
I'm pretty sure iTerm also has a preference like this. Can't say for
though. Every 6 months or so I check out the latest version of iTerm,
admire its features (of which it has many) and then give up on it
again, either because it crashes or because it's too slow when the
scroll buffer gets large. Limited though it is, I always come back to
Terminal.
NM Public
>
> * When I turn color on in Pine, the background iTerm window
> color is gray. How can I make it white? I've tried everything I
> can think of!
Aha, I just figured this part out. In the iTerm Display dialog,
on the right there are 2 columns of 8 ANSI Colors, the bottom
left one was gray. I changed it to white and now my Pine colors
are doing what I want them to do!
I'm still interested in learning about iTerm tips, especially the
mouse-in-xterm issue. Also, any tips about CMD-clicking on URLs
and having them open in my default browser (which is how Terminal
works) are welcome.
Nothing like posting a question to inspire me to figure something
out myself!
Nancy
--
Nancy McGough
Thomas Dickey
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.apps.]
> On 2006-06-06, NM Public <ago...@nm.deflexion.com> wrote:
>> I'm experimenting with running pine in iTerm on Mac OS X.
> In my experience, console apps like this almost always run better in
> screen than they do directly in either Terminal or iTerm. I don't use
> pine myself (you should consider mutt, which is an immensely more
> sophisticated mail client), but it's easy enough to try. You can ignore
> TERM if you use screen.
well, screen doesn't ignore TERM (and relies on a reasonable setting).
iirc, pine ignores TERM
--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net
Bob Harris
NM Public <ago...@nm.deflexion.com> wrote:
OK, you have said in another post you solved the color problem.
Now for the mouse support. Wild Guess.
I'm assuming that you are telling iTerm to use xterm as your TERM.
The fact that you say when you ssh to a remote system the mouse
support works, I suspect that the problem is the terminfo
definition for xterm on MacOSX. That is to say, it is possible
that pine looks at the terminfo description for your TERM setting
to find out what the mouse escape sequences are going to be. But
if the Mac's xterm terminfo definition does not have an entry for
mouse support, then pine would not find the information it needs
to do its job.
I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS THE CASE. I just suspect this is the
case as the other system works, so we know iTerm is sending the
mouse info, and the remote system is using the info, but it does
not work on the Mac. The differences are pine and the local
terminfo database. I'm going to suspect that pine is built the
same on both system as pine is not on the Mac by default so I'm
assuming you provided a copy. That leaves the terminfo database.
The other reason I suspect the terminfo database is that when
playing with Vim and color support I run across a lot of systems
where the terminfo database does not have the needed information
to tell Vim the TERM entry has color so it doesn't use color. And
MacOSX is one of these systems. So if missing color in some
terminfo entries can exist on MacOSX, then maybe missing mouse
entries could exist too.
Again it is a Wild Guess.
Bob Harris
NM Public
> On 2006-06-06, NM Public wrote:
>> I'm experimenting with running pine in iTerm on Mac OS X.
>
> In my experience, console apps like this almost always run better in
> screen than they do directly in either Terminal or iTerm. I don't use
> pine myself (you should consider mutt, which is an immensely more
> sophisticated mail client), but it's easy enough to try. You can ignore
> TERM if you use screen.
I do sometimes use screen when I'm ssh'd to a remote system, but
never really thought about running it locally. Thanks for the tip.
(BTW, I consider mutt all the time. As soon as it supports IMAP
keywords, I'll probably start using it (in addition to my other
IMAP clients, Pine, SeaMonkey Suite, Mulberry, etc.))
>> * When I enable-mouse-in-xterm in Pine, I *can* use the mouse
>> in Pine when I run Pine on a remote system (via ssh)
>
> You're using an xterm or other X11 terminal emulator on the remote
> system? If so, that's why it works. Use an xterm locally, instead of
> iTerm or Terminal, and it will probably work there too.
I spent a lot of time messing around with this a while ago. I
installed the X Window System and tried running Pine in a local
xterm window and never could get the mouse to work. I posted
about this in comp.mail.pine and someone said they were able to
use the mouse in Pine in their local Mac xterm, so it is
possible. I tried *lots* of different config settings and windows
managers...
> You _might_ get some limited mouse behavior in Terminal via option-click
> if you set corresponding Keyboard preference. I know this works in
> emacs and vim in a Terminal for simple things like cursor positioning.
> I'm pretty sure iTerm also has a preference like this. Can't say for
> though. Every 6 months or so I check out the latest version of iTerm,
> admire its features (of which it has many) and then give up on it
> again, either because it crashes or because it's too slow when the
> scroll buffer gets large. Limited though it is, I always come back to
> Terminal.
Thank you very much for the Option-click tip! I'm now back to
Terminal and thrilled to be able to use Option-click to position
the mouse. I wrote about why I decided to stick with Terminal in
this blog item:
Clicks, Colors, and Speed in Terminal and iTerm
<http://deflexion.com/2006/06/clicks-colors-and-speed-in-terminal>
Thank you to everyone who posted in this thread -- I learned some
good stuff!
Nancy
--
Nancy McGough
D P Schreber
> (BTW, I consider mutt all the time. As soon as it supports IMAP
> keywords, I'll probably start using it
You might ask about this on comp.mail.mutt if you haven't already.
Features often creep into mutt without much fanfare. For sure you
should use at least the so-called "development" release rather than the
"stable" release. The dev release is as stable as anyone could want,
while the "stable" release is ridiculously out of date -- almost 2.5
years old. Even the official dev release is getting old by now. I use
a cvs snapshot that I update regularly. I know for sure there are imap
features in the current cvs tree that aren't in the dev snapshot, much
less in the stable release.
> I spent a lot of time messing around with this a while ago. I
> installed the X Window System and tried running Pine in a local
> xterm window and never could get the mouse to work.
Depending how long ago this was, you might want to try again. Apple's
X11 changed a lot between the initial release and the current one.
Just so I'm clear: when you built pine for osx, you built it on a Mac
that had the X11 sdk installed, correct?
> Clicks, Colors, and Speed in Terminal and iTerm
><http://deflexion.com/2006/06/clicks-colors-and-speed-in-terminal>
You'll probably offend some iTerm fans with this, but in general I think
you got the pros and cons of iTerm vs Terminal about right. For me, as
much as I like some features of iTerm, Terminal is currently more
effective overall. Of course I'll continue to try iTerm when new
releases appear.
r royar
> I spent a lot of time messing around with this a while ago. I installed the X
> Window System and tried running Pine in a local xterm window and never could
> get the mouse to work. I posted about this in comp.mail.pine and someone said
> they were able to use the mouse in Pine in their local Mac xterm, so it is
> possible. I tried *lots* of different config settings and windows managers...
I don't use Pine on a remote system. I just have Pine on my Macs
connect to the remote mailboxes (mostly IMAP). The remote server on
which I have a shell I do not run an X server. I do run it on the Macs.
It is mostly Apple's release, but I have added in or upgraded some X
libraries using the Xorg distribution--did that to get Xprt running for
Gimp and Mozilla and for cleaner looking font aliasing.
I added -DMOUSE to Pine's EXTRACFLAGS build commands. I use quartz-wm
as my window manager and xterm 2.13 configured and built with
--enable-256-color --enable-tcap-query --disable-vt52 --enable-wide-chars
--with-terminal-id=vt220 --with-terminal-type=xterm-256color
--enable-freetype --disable-tek4014 --enable-toolbar --enable-mini-luit
--enable-luit --prefix=/usr/X11R6 --enable-dabbrev --enable-paste64
--with-Xaw3d
Pine starts from its own application bundle using a script with the
xterm invocation of
"${1}"/Contents/Resources/xterm -title Pine +nul +dc +cm -tn xterm-256color -geometry 140x54+320+50 -hc cyan -bc -cr coral -ms coral -b 4 +sb -fa "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono" -fb "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono Bold" -fs 12 -e "$1/Contents/Resources/pine"
$1 contains the path to the application.
I set
[x] enable-mouse-in-xterm
The mouse works in two ways: without a key modifier, it is seen directly
by Pine; movement and marking work. With a modifier, it copies and
pastes text or it pulls up the xterm popup menus.
I compiled 4.64 with Eduardo's patches and a few of my own to make Pine
able to start from the Dock as an X application (raising the frames
properly). I also changed the way Pine calls external viewers to make
it rely less on OS X's idea of the correct launch programs and more on
my mailcap/mimetype settings. That let me run antiword, for example, to
open MS-Word files.
I would love to be able to use a Pine "widget" with a CoCoa wrapper. I
like to be able to set my keys to work the same for all applications
(easy to do system-wide in CoCoa), and I like access to the services
(such as live spellcheck and correction). But I have not found another
email client that gives me as much confidence as Pine with regard to
communications with a secure IMAP server, hope that makes sense.
Certainly more information than you need, so I will leave off, here.
--
Robert Delius Royar The email address is valid as it is written.