10 Ways The Nokia N800 Is Better Than Apple's iPhone
Edwin
http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-better-than-apples-iphone/
All the buzz these days is about the Apple iPhone (not to be confused
with the Linksys iPhone). I have to admit, the iPhone is pretty cool,
and I was really excited about it for a few hours. Then, reality
started to sink in and I realized that the iPhone is probably not
something for me. Here are 10 reasons why I'd like to buy a Nokia N800
instead of an Apple iPhone. I realize that there are areas where the
iPhone will be better than the N800, I just don't think it's worth the
extra cost and lack of freedom that comes along with having an iPhone.
1. Price
Nokia N800: $399
Apple iPhone: $499 or $599 (Plus 2 year Cingular service contract)
2. Open Source
The Nokia N800 is a Linux device based on a modified version of Debian
GNU/Linux that they call "Internet Tablet OS 2007 edition". Nokia
created the open source Maemo development platform for the 770 and
N800. They've worked hard to encourage developers to port applications
to this platform. You can find more info at maemo.org.
The iPhone is far from open. We're still not sure what Steve Jobs
meant when he said that the iPhone runs "OS X", but it's most
certainly not the full-blown "Mac OS X" that comes on a new Macbook.
While the core of the phone's OS may someday be open sourced (like
Darwin), it's highly unlikely that Apple will ever open source the
entire OS or even share the iPhone APIs that would allow developers to
make new iPhone apps.
3. Third Party Applications
Nokia strongly encourages 3rd party developers to make software for
their N800 and 770 products. There is quite a lot of software
available for Nokia's platform and most (if not all) of it is free.
You can install geeky apps such as VNC and VIM, or one of more than 35
games that are available on the Maemo site.
Apple has stated that they will not allow 3rd party applications on
the iPhone. Apple want's to control everything from the top down.
They're not even supporting Flash or Java (I guess that would make it
too easy for developers to bypass Apple's control and offer
applications for the iPhone).
4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use the
mobile provider of your choosing.
To get an iPhone, you'll need to sign up for a 2-year contract with
Cingular. Nobody knows exactly how much this plan will cost, but I'm
sure it won't be cheap. Data plans are traditionally extremely
expensive in the US and I'm sure Cingular and Apple will make loads of
money overcharging customers for internet access.
The practice of locking mobile phones to a single mobile provider has
become quite annoying in the United States. While the rest of the
world can freely change providers by simply swapping out a SIM card,
US customers are usually stuck with multi-year contracts and locked
phones. Apple is continuing this tradition by locking all iPhones sold
in the US to the Cingular network.
5. Removable Storage
The Nokia N800 has two memory slots that support a range of memory
cards (SD, miniSD, microSD, MMC and RS-MMC). This allows you to keep
one card in the device for a more permanent storage solution, and
still have a slot available for cards from your camera or other
device. With the falling price of memory cards, you could have several
cards with music and videos tucked away in the carrying case that
comes with the N800.
Apple's iPhone has no removable storage. This is probably by design as
it helps justify a higher priced model with more memory.
6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
The N800 supports a wide range of audio and video formats. Supported
audio formats are AAC, AMR, MP2, MP3, RA (Real Audio), WAV, WMA. You
can play videos in the following formats: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1,
MPEG-4, RV (Real Video), and Flash Video (YouTube!). That covers just
about anything you'd ever want to play on a media device. With the
open nature of the N800's OS, more codec support can be expected from
3rd party developers. You can also use the N800 with Real's Rhapsody
music service (if you prefer your music with DRM). You can even stream
audio and video from networked computers!
The iPhone, like the iPod, plays only Apple sanctioned audio and video
formats. This means you can play content from the iTunes store as well
as MP3 audio and MPEG video. No streaming to the phone or playing
competing formats.
7. It's Not a Cell Phone
The N800 is not a cell phone. At first, I thought this was a bad
thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
Sometimes I just need a simple phone. If I'm heading to the grocery
store, working in the yard, or in some busy place where my phone might
get damaged or stolen, then I'd rather just tuck a simple mobile phone
in my pocket and head for the door. With the N800, I can just leave it
at home when I know I won't need it.
Apple wants the iPhone to become the device that you always have with
you. That sounds great at first, but how long do you think it'll last
in the New York subway? There are times when having a regular phone is
more convenient. Perhaps it will be possible to switch your SIM card
from the iPhone to a secondary phone when needed, but Apple hasn't
said anything about this.
8. It is a VoIP Phone
The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
calls from just about anywhere.
With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
More money for Cingular and Apple.
9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
The N800 also has a built in webcam and supports video conferencing!
How great would that be for your next conference call? Star-Trek-like
video calls are not sci-fi for this device.
The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
10. It's Available Now
The Nokia N800 is available now at some stores and from Amazon. You
can order one today.
The iPhone should be available in June.
George Graves
(in article <1178574583....@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-better-
tha
Who cares? Not me. Take it walkin', Edwin.
KDT
> http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-b...
Slight problem......it's not a cell phone.....isn't that kind of a
major drawback for people who I don't know want....a cell phone?
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> 1. Price
> Nokia N800: $399
> Apple iPhone: $499 or $599 (Plus 2 year Cingular service contract)
Yeah, well, I suppose an actual cell phone and an iPod might actually
be worth $100 in this context. But sure, the iPhone is expensive. No
doubt about that.
> 2. Open Source
This really isn't a unique selling point for the target audience.
> 3. Third Party Applications
I can see how this might become a problem for the iPhone, if third
party applications are sparse. Still, if Apples intentions are to keep
better control on third party apps and only distribute them through
the iTunes Store, it might work.
> 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
Uh, since no mobile phone is included :-D
Still, this Cingular-only approach could only work in the states.
> 5. Removable Storage
Agreed. The iPhone should have a memory card slot.
> 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> The N800 supports a wide range of audio and video formats. Supported
> audio formats are AAC, AMR, MP2, MP3, RA (Real Audio), WAV, WMA. You
> can play videos in the following formats: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1,
> MPEG-4, RV (Real Video), and Flash Video (YouTube!).
Neither of which could be called "better" than AAC and H.264, really.
> 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> The N800 is not a cell phone. At first, I thought this was a bad
> thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
> want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
That's odd. The entire idea is to find a device that can replace
several devices successfully.
> 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
> This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
> are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
> every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
> calls from just about anywhere.
Sure, this could be sweet for some. Mainly technically inclined, of
course.
> With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> More money for Cingular and Apple.
In the states. :)
> 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> The N800 also has a built in webcam and supports video conferencing!
> How great would that be for your next conference call? Star-Trek-like
> video calls are not sci-fi for this device.
>
> The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
Since it's a mobile phone, it's communication focus is on GSM/EDGE,
which hasn't got enough bandwidth to do video calls. When the iPhone
goes 3G, video calls should be available.
Plus, the camera quality of the N800 really truly sucks. :)
> 10. It's Available Now
I know, I have one. It's pretty nice, but it's only another device. It
doesn't replace any other device. I still have to have a cell phone, I
still have to have an iPod.
--
Sandman[.net]
Mitch
Graves <gmgr...@comcast.net> wrote:
It was a poorly-convincing article, anyway.
Edwin won't understand why, but everyone else can:
> > 1. Price
> > 2. Open Source
> > 3. Third Party Applications
The "open source" and "third-party" argument is the same argument.
> > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
Perhaps, but everyone buying a phone wants a contract, and many want
Cingular. This just isn't a bad thing for all users.
That the Nokia isn't a cell phone at all makes it _less than half_ as
useful to most buyers. It's a PDA, not a phone!
> > 5. Removable Storage
A good feature, certainly.
> > 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> > The iPhone, like the iPod, plays only Apple sanctioned audio and video
> > formats.
Which is just about everything in the given list. The author is trying
hard to make it sound like Apple's list is much shorter, and it isn't.
> > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > The N800 is not a cell phone.
Then why is this guy comparing these dvices at all?
Obviously, if you don't need a phone, the iPhone isn't even supposed to
be one of your strongest choices!
> > At first, I thought this was a bad
> > thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
> > want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
Also, then, you may not need either the iPhone or the Nokia device. Why
is this guy even writing this article?
> > With the N800, I can just leave it
> > at home when I know I won't need it.
Who is this guy trying to trick? You can NOT take any of your choices
with you, any time!
> > Apple wants the iPhone to become the device that you always have with
> > you. That sounds great at first, but how long do you think it'll last
> > in the New York subway?
This is a fault of Apple's design specifically? Is this guy saying that
cheap CD players are never stolen, too? This is a stupid argument.
> > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> > The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls
So can a lot of computers. This isn't such a great feature if you plan
to walk away from a network, too.
> > With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> > More money for Cingular and Apple.
Uh-huh. But since most people actually want to make phone calls using a
phone system, they've already accepted this small compromise. Or is he
trying to say that all cell phone users are suckers for doing this?
> > 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> > The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
Not yet determined. It's too early to make this statement against it.
> > 10. It's Available Now
> > The Nokia N800 is available now at some stores and from Amazon. You
> > can order one today.
That's an advantage of a few weeks!
It is obvious that iPhone isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. But isn't
it also obvious that these kinds of dum arguments don't help anyone
choose?
Edwin
Your answer is in what you snipped out:
4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use
the
mobile provider of your choosing.
8. It is a VoIP Phone
Edwin
> On Mon, 7 May 2007 14:49:43 -0700, Edwin wrote
>
>
>
> http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-b...
Walkin' all over you.
Edwin
> In article <0001HW.C265161B011011D0F0182...@news.comcast.net>, George
If you judge it by how Apple sychophants react to it.
> Edwin won't understand why, but everyone else can:
You mistakenly assume I share your shortcomings.
> > > 1. Price
> > > 2. Open Source
> > > 3. Third Party Applications
>
> The "open source" and "third-party" argument is the same argument.
No it's not. Third-party can be either commercial or open source.
> > > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
>
> Perhaps, but everyone buying a phone wants a contract,
No they don't. That's why pay-as-you-go plans exist.
> and many want
> Cingular. This just isn't a bad thing for all users.
Let's make the foot fit the shoe, eh?
> That the Nokia isn't a cell phone at all makes it _less than half_ as
> useful to most buyers. It's a PDA, not a phone!
If you had bothered to read what you snipped, you would have found it
can indeed be used as a phone.
> > > 5. Removable Storage
>
> A good feature, certainly.
That the iPhone lacks.
> > > 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> > > The iPhone, like the iPod, plays only Apple sanctioned audio and video
> > > formats.
>
> Which is just about everything in the given list. The author is trying
> hard to make it sound like Apple's list is much shorter, and it isn't.
It's no wonder you snipped as much as you did. Restoring it shows
how foolish your above comments are:
6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
The N800 supports a wide range of audio and video formats. Supported
audio formats are AAC, AMR, MP2, MP3, RA (Real Audio), WAV, WMA. You
can play videos in the following formats: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1,
MPEG-4, RV (Real Video), and Flash Video (YouTube!). That covers just
about anything you'd ever want to play on a media device. With the
open nature of the N800's OS, more codec support can be expected from
3rd party developers. You can also use the N800 with Real's Rhapsody
music service (if you prefer your music with DRM). You can even
stream
audio and video from networked computers!
The iPhone, like the iPod, plays only Apple sanctioned audio and
video
formats. This means you can play content from the iTunes store as
well
as MP3 audio and MPEG video. No streaming to the phone or playing
competing formats.
> > > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > > The N800 is not a cell phone.
>
> Then why is this guy comparing these dvices at all?
You should have read instead of snipping, and you would have the
answer to your question. It is a VOIP phone and it can connect to a
WIFI network.
> Obviously, if you don't need a phone, the iPhone isn't even supposed to
> be one of your strongest choices!
The N800 *is* a wireless phone. It just doesn't directly connect to
cellular networks.
> > > At first, I thought this was a bad
> > > thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
> > > want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
>
> Also, then, you may not need either the iPhone or the Nokia device. Why
> is this guy even writing this article?
Don't smash the pea.
> > > With the N800, I can just leave it
> > > at home when I know I won't need it.
>
> Who is this guy trying to trick? You can NOT take any of your choices
> with you, any time!
Take only your bluetooth cell phone with you when you're only going to
make phone calls. When you want surf the Web, do email, work from the
office, watch movies, listen to music, etc., take your N800 along too.
> > > Apple wants the iPhone to become the device that you always have with
> > > you. That sounds great at first, but how long do you think it'll last
> > > in the New York subway?
>
> This is a fault of Apple's design specifically? Is this guy saying that
> cheap CD players are never stolen, too? This is a stupid argument.
He's saying combining a bluetooth cell phone with an N800 gives him a
combination that lets him leave the most expensive part of it at home
when it might get him killed to be caught with a iPhone.
> > > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> > > The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls
>
> So can a lot of computers. This isn't such a great feature if you plan
> to walk away from a network, too.
Once again you should have read instead of snipped.
> > > With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> > > More money for Cingular and Apple.
>
> Uh-huh. But since most people actually want to make phone calls using a
> phone system, they've already accepted this small compromise.
Most people just want to talk to the party they called, and they don't
know or care what kind of system is carrying their call.
> Or is he
> trying to say that all cell phone users are suckers for doing this?
Not all of them, just the ones who let an iPhone lock them into Apple
and Cingular.
> > > 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> > > The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
>
> Not yet determined. It's too early to make this statement against it.
The list of iPhone features have been released. It's not "too early"
to mention this at all.
> > > 10. It's Available Now
> > > The Nokia N800 is available now at some stores and from Amazon. You
> > > can order one today.
>
> That's an advantage of a few weeks!
So an N800 can use this for a few weeks while you're sitting around
daydreaming about how the iPhone might have video conferencing.
> It is obvious that iPhone isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.
Yeah, it's the solution for people who somehow got more money than
brains.
> But isn't
> it also obvious that these kinds of dum arguments don't help anyone
> choose?
No "dum [sic]" argument was presented, if we overlook your reply.
If the article didn't help anybody choose, you wouldn't be here
railing against it.
KDT
> On May 7, 9:39 pm, KDT <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 7, 5:49 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-b...
>
> > Slight problem......it's not a cell phone.....isn't that kind of a
> > major drawback for people who I don't know want....a cell phone?
>
> Your answer is in what you snipped out:
>
> 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
> With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
> Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use
> the
> mobile provider of your choosing.
So I can use it as a mobile phone as long as I'm within a hotspot, or
tethered to bluetooth cell phone, and in a 3G service area...and this
is somehow better than a cellular phone? I still would have to carry
around two devices. I need a cell phone much more than I need to
browse the web when I'm out.
>
> 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
> This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
> are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
> every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
> calls from just about anywhere.
I can just see me finding a WIFI hotspot on the interstate. You're
really reaching.
Edwin
> On May 8, 11:51 am, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 7, 9:39 pm, KDT <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 7, 5:49 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-b...
>
> > > Slight problem......it's not a cell phone.....isn't that kind of a
> > > major drawback for people who I don't know want....a cell phone?
>
> > Your answer is in what you snipped out:
>
> > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
> > With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
> > Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use
> > the
> > mobile provider of your choosing.
>
> So I can use it as a mobile phone as long as I'm within a hotspot, or
> tethered to bluetooth cell phone, and in a 3G service area...
What limits your bluetooth cell phone to a 3G service area, and how is
a bluetooth wireless connection to the N800 a "tether?"
> and this
> is somehow better than a cellular phone?
No, this is better than a iPhone.
> I still would have to carry
> around two devices.
Sometimes, as needed. The N800 is supposed to be a laptop
replacement.
> I need a cell phone much more than I need to
> browse the web when I'm out.
Those would be the times you leave your N800 at home. Tell me how to
leave all but the phone features of the iPhone at home.
> > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> > The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> > GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
> > This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
> > are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
> > every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
> > calls from just about anywhere.
>
> I can just see me finding a WIFI hotspot on the interstate.
As if the only place one needs a phone is while traveling down an
interstate highway.
>You're really reaching.
You got that backwards.
Edwin
> In article <1178574583.927008.94...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
> > 1. Price
> > Nokia N800: $399
> > Apple iPhone: $499 or $599 (Plus 2 year Cingular service contract)
>
> Yeah, well, I suppose an actual cell phone and an iPod might actually
> be worth $100 in this context.
I don't see what a cell phone combined with an iPod has to do with
this, seeing how that combination doesn't have the features of the
N800 or the iPhone.
> But sure, the iPhone is expensive. No
> doubt about that.
Yes.
> > 2. Open Source
>
> This really isn't a unique selling point for the target audience.
Here we see the Mac Advocate tactic of creating an arbitrary,
artificial "target audience" to match a product that Apple is selling.
> > 3. Third Party Applications
>
> I can see how this might become a problem for the iPhone, if third
> party applications are sparse. Still, if Apples intentions are to keep
> better control on third party apps and only distribute them through
> the iTunes Store, it might work.
As is typical with you, one hand gives, and the other hand takes it
back.
> > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
>
> Uh, since no mobile phone is included :-D
It can be paired with the mobile phone of your choice. It's also a
WIFI device with a VOIP phone built in.
> Still, this Cingular-only approach could only work in the states.
You'll have yet another Apple product to give lip service to.
> > 5. Removable Storage
>
> Agreed. The iPhone should have a memory card slot.
Thank you.
> > 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> > The N800 supports a wide range of audio and video formats. Supported
> > audio formats are AAC, AMR, MP2, MP3, RA (Real Audio), WAV, WMA. You
> > can play videos in the following formats: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1,
> > MPEG-4, RV (Real Video), and Flash Video (YouTube!).
>
> Neither of which could be called "better" than AAC and H.264, really.
It doesn't have to be called "better," it just has to be compatible
with the formats the sites you visit are using. It gives you access
to more content.
> > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > The N800 is not a cell phone. At first, I thought this was a bad
> > thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
> > want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
>
> That's odd. The entire idea is to find a device that can replace
> several devices successfully.
Then you ought to reread items 4 and 8 several more times.
> > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> > The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> > GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
> > This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
> > are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
> > every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
> > calls from just about anywhere.
>
> Sure, this could be sweet for some. Mainly technically inclined, of
> course.
Lots of regular people are doing this every day already, with PDAs and
laptops.
> > With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> > More money for Cingular and Apple.
>
> In the states. :)
Being SOL makes you smile?
> > 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> > The N800 also has a built in webcam and supports video conferencing!
> > How great would that be for your next conference call? Star-Trek-like
> > video calls are not sci-fi for this device.
>
> > The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
>
> Since it's a mobile phone, it's communication focus is on GSM/EDGE,
> which hasn't got enough bandwidth to do video calls. When the iPhone
> goes 3G, video calls should be available.
Vaporware to the rescue!
> Plus, the camera quality of the N800 really truly sucks. :)
I don't believe you.
> > 10. It's Available Now
>
> I know, I have one. It's pretty nice,
Truly sucking makes it pretty nice?
> but it's only another device. It
> doesn't replace any other device. I still have to have a cell phone, I
> still have to have an iPod.
You choose to have those other things, you don't have to.
KDT
> On May 8, 12:32 pm, KDT <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 11:51 am, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 7, 9:39 pm, KDT <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 7, 5:49 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.starryhope.com/tech/apple/2007/10-ways-the-nokia-n800-is-b...
>
> > > > Slight problem......it's not a cell phone.....isn't that kind of a
> > > > major drawback for people who I don't know want....a cell phone?
>
> > > Your answer is in what you snipped out:
>
> > > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
> > > With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
> > > Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use
> > > the
> > > mobile provider of your choosing.
>
> > So I can use it as a mobile phone as long as I'm within a hotspot, or
> > tethered to bluetooth cell phone, and in a 3G service area...
>
> What limits your bluetooth cell phone to a 3G service area, and how is
> a bluetooth wireless connection to the N800 a "tether?"
You need a broadband connection to use the VOIP services. You are
talking about using your cellphone to connect to the Internet with the
N800 over Bluetooth and then using VOIP aren't you? Seems a little bit
more cumbersome than just using the phone...and you still have to
subscribe to your wireless providers data plan.
> > I need a cell phone much more than I need to
> > browse the web when I'm out.
>
> Those would be the times you leave your N800 at home. Tell me how to
> leave all but the phone features of the iPhone at home.
Why would I want to leave the features at home? The iPhone is not
exactly huge.
> > I can just see me finding a WIFI hotspot on the interstate.
>
> As if the only place one needs a phone is while traveling down an
> interstate highway.
So I carry around two devices...one when I'm in a hotspot and the
other when I'm on the road or I use my cell phone as modem over
Bluetooth still requiring a data plan to use VOIP? What type of Rube
Goldberg contraption is that just to talk?
Mitch
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > The "open source" and "third-party" argument is the same argument.
> No it's not. Third-party can be either commercial or open source.
No, sir -- the point of either kind is having them to put on the phone,
which is what that argument is based on. The argument is NOT about how
to categorize different kinds of development efforts or distribution
channels; it's about how it applies to the phone.
> > Perhaps, but everyone buying a phone wants a contract,
> No they don't. That's why pay-as-you-go plans exist.
And, dude, a pay-as-you-go plan is a contract. You pay them, they
provide service to that phone.
> > and many want
> > Cingular. This just isn't a bad thing for all users.
> Let's make the foot fit the shoe, eh?
You're not making sense here. Should have followed with your
explanation of what this metaphor means to you.
> > That the Nokia isn't a cell phone at all makes it _less than half_ as
> > useful to most buyers. It's a PDA, not a phone!
>
> If you had bothered to read what you snipped, you would have found it
> can indeed be used as a phone.
And if you read my reply, you can see why both the author and I treated
it's VOIP as a separate feature.
> > > > 5. Removable Storage
> > A good feature, certainly.
> That the iPhone lacks.
Yes, Edwin, that is why I wrote it that way.
Do you always assume no one gets it but you?
> > > > 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> > > > The iPhone, like the iPod, plays only Apple sanctioned audio and video
> > > > formats.
> >
> > Which is just about everything in the given list. The author is trying
> > hard to make it sound like Apple's list is much shorter, and it isn't.
>
> It's no wonder you snipped as much as you did. Restoring it shows
> how foolish your above comments are:
No, restoring it shows how misleading the author was trying to be.
Look at it this way: the author did not even begin to list all the
formats iPhone (and iTunes) will support.
> > > > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > > > The N800 is not a cell phone.
> >
> > Then why is this guy comparing these dvices at all?
>
> You should have read instead of snipping, and you would have the
> answer to your question. It is a VOIP phone and it can connect to a
> WIFI network.
Again, everyone else gets it -- we're trying to catch _you_ up.
If the two devices do NOT compare in how they can be used, they should
not be compared as alternatives to each other. If you need VOIP, you
don't look at iPhone. If you need reliable and consistent service from
everywhere, like a cell, you look at iPhone. They simply don't belong
on each other's lists.
> > Obviously, if you don't need a phone, the iPhone isn't even supposed to
> > be one of your strongest choices!
>
> The N800 *is* a wireless phone. It just doesn't directly connect to
> cellular networks.
Read again. That the category 'wireless' applies to both is NOT the
point. It is how they can be used.
You need an example, right? If you are in a restaurant, cab, movie
line, or at the beach, no one can call you on VOIP, and you can't call
out. VOIP simply is _not_ comparable to cell phone service.
I'm not saying it isn't, or can't be, useful. Devices that are this
different simply aren't alternatives to each other.
> He's saying combining a bluetooth cell phone with an N800 gives him a
> combination that lets him leave the most expensive part of it at home
> when it might get him killed to be caught with a iPhone.
Killed? I don't know what city you are thinking of, but if that is a
risk, then you shouldn't consider buying iPhone no matter how it
compares to other devices. Again, this just isn't about features or
Apple's designs. And if this violent city will kill for an iPhone, I
have a hard time believing a sophisticated toy like Nokia's isn't also
a target!
> > > > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> > > > The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls
> > So can a lot of computers. This isn't such a great feature if you plan
> > to walk away from a network, too.
> Once again you should have read instead of snipped.
No, that shows very clearly that I read it, and understood the comments.
Do _you_ understand why the VOIP feature isn't unique? Why it doesn't
have to cost hundreds of dollars? Why portability and nearness of a
fast open network is really critical?
> > Uh-huh. But since most people actually want to make phone calls using a
> > phone system, they've already accepted this small compromise.
>
> Most people just want to talk to the party they called, and they don't
> know or care what kind of system is carrying their call.
Sorry, no. It has to be the phone system for almost everyone. People
want to use phone numbers, call actual land lines or other cell phones,
and they want to be able to receive calls.
They usually don't care what technology runs the system, but that
obviously wasn't any part of my comment.
> > Or is he
> > trying to say that all cell phone users are suckers for doing this?
>
> Not all of them, just the ones who let an iPhone lock them into Apple
> and Cingular.
That's stupid; you've latched onto this as a weakness even without
having any reason to criticize it?
You're not even trying to show why a Cingular user is a victim; you're
just latching onto a complaint that is assumed to be a problem before
it comes out.
> > > > 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> > > > The iPhone has a camera, but no video conferencing.
> >
> > Not yet determined. It's too early to make this statement against it.
>
> The list of iPhone features have been released. It's not "too early"
> to mention this at all.
Wrong -- Apple may yet add almost anything to it. And they can continue
to do so at any time, adding any feature it can support.
Obviously, it can support this kind of wireless network. So you have no
reason to write that iPhone will not be able to do this.
> > > > 10. It's Available Now
> > > > The Nokia N800 is available now at some stores and from Amazon. You
> > > > can order one today.
> >
> > That's an advantage of a few weeks!
>
> So an N800 can use this for a few weeks while you're sitting around
> daydreaming about how the iPhone might have video conferencing.
Right -- if someone cares about the next several weeks, this is an
advantage. If they do not, then it isn't.
You had no reason to mention video conferencing, since availability and
conferencing are not the same set of interests.
> If the article didn't help anybody choose, you wouldn't be here
> railing against it.
Bullshit. That's your childish assumption that I am doing this to
defend Apple, or defend iPhone, or just rally against some nitwit who
wrote an Anti-Apple article.
That isn't why I wrote, and it isn't WHAT I wrote. I wrote against the
points he made, not -- get this -- not against the N800, which looks to
be a very useful and interesting device.
If you can't see that I wasn't attacking the N800, then you just don't
know how to read for comprehension.
I don't think that would surprise many, though.
Mitch
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > Slight problem......it's not a cell phone.....isn't that kind of a
> > major drawback for people who I don't know want....a cell phone?
>
> Your answer is in what you snipped out:
>
> 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
> With the Nokia N800, you can access the internet via Wi-Fi or with a
> Bluetooth enabled mobile phone. This allows you the freedom to use
> the mobile provider of your choosing.
Since you can access the internet at least as well and as easily with
iPhone, why is this being trumpeted as a difference?
Since both have Bluetooth, why is that listed as a difference?
Both will be able to connect over cell networks. Again, not a
difference.
Nothing of what YOU pasted has anything to do with Cingular, so it's
misleading that you keep reminding people that Cingular is the carrier.
> 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> GoogleTalk. Skype support is coming in the second quarter of 2007.
> This means that you can make cheap (or even free) calls anytime you
> are connected to a Wi-Fi network. With Wi-Fi becoming more prevalent
> every day, this means you'll soon be able to use your N800 to make
> calls from just about anywhere.
Got it. Now, do you understand that a VOIP solution isn't comparable to
cell phone use?
I think it's still true that most people aren't paying fees for calls
or going over their minutes, so the idea that VOIP is free really
doesn't mean a lot.
Mitch
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > So I can use it as a mobile phone as long as I'm within a hotspot, or
> > tethered to bluetooth cell phone, and in a 3G service area...
> What limits your bluetooth cell phone to a 3G service area, and how is
> a bluetooth wireless connection to the N800 a "tether?"
How is Bluetooth a tether? Really?
It's a tether because it requires you to use (carry and manipulate) two
devices at once, and there is a range that you can't go beyond. The two
devices are tethered to each other when they operate this way.
> > and this
> > is somehow better than a cellular phone?
> No, this is better than a iPhone.
Not in the least. Much worse, in almost every way a telephone is useful.
> > I still would have to carry
> > around two devices.
> Sometimes, as needed. The N800 is supposed to be a laptop
> replacement.
Actually, it's a hybrid. It certainly doesn't come close to a laptop.
But even if you are trying to say it is aimed that way, then why is it
being compared to a device which is clearly NOT trying to replace a
laptop, but offer several very different features?
> > I need a cell phone much more than I need to
> > browse the web when I'm out.
> Those would be the times you leave your N800 at home. Tell me how to
> leave all but the phone features of the iPhone at home.
No, you're missing the point. He is writing that the critical function
he needs is the phone. He isn't saying he wants to leave devices
behind, and he isn't saying he wants to have several devices doing
different functions.
If you aren't yet aware, the critical function most people are looking
for is a phone. If you are suggesting the N800 is better left behind,
then it definitely is NOT the kind of device any of these people want.
> > I can just see me finding a WIFI hotspot on the interstate.
> As if the only place one needs a phone is while traveling down an
> interstate highway.
Yeah, it's silly when people insist on narrow conditions to make their
point, huh? Like your insistence that free open networks are common.
Like your insistence that VOIP would offer the same features to a user
as a cell phone.
Mitch
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > 2. Open Source
> > This really isn't a unique selling point for the target audience.
> Here we see the Mac Advocate tactic of creating an arbitrary,
> artificial "target audience" to match a product that Apple is selling.
Artificial? Arbitrary? Neither word seems to apply here.
Apple was specific about their audience, it is the general consumer who
would use both an iPod and cell phone.
(Which obviously never implies that all of those people want or should
get one!)
> It can be paired with the mobile phone of your choice. It's also a
> WIFI device with a VOIP phone built in.
iPhone is a WiFi device with a phone built in, too -- but it's a phone
that works everywhere, not just in free open networks. Do you see how
that could be an advantage to users?
> > Neither of which could be called "better" than AAC and H.264, really.
>
> It doesn't have to be called "better," it just has to be compatible
> with the formats the sites you visit are using. It gives you access
> to more content.
Quite right -- as far as internet use goes, anyway.
But both devices are likely also to be used for stored content.
> > > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > That's odd. The entire idea is to find a device that can replace
> > several devices successfully.
> Then you ought to reread items 4 and 8 several more times.
Where it pretends that VOIP is a complete alternative to a cell phone?
Look, the response is to suggesting using a cell phone to complement
the WiFi features. Since iPhone has those built in, how could having
the same features in two devices (with service added!) be a better
choice?
> > > 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> Lots of regular people are doing this every day already, with PDAs and
> laptops.
Ys, but in VERY limited locations. That's the difference. It's huge.
> > > With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> Being SOL makes you smile?
How is using Cingular SOL? Are you even aware that plenty of people are
using it effectively and happily? Are you aware that people using all
of the services complain about their service?
> > Since it's a mobile phone, it's communication focus is on GSM/EDGE,
> > which hasn't got enough bandwidth to do video calls. When the iPhone
> > goes 3G, video calls should be available.
>
> Vaporware to the rescue!
Rescue? Because you figure that video conferencing is the big
high-demand make-or-break feature? Are you kidding?
> > Plus, the camera quality of the N800 really truly sucks. :)
<and>
> > I know, I have one. It's pretty nice,
>
> Truly sucking makes it pretty nice?
Look back -- that was a comment about a single feature. It would be
extreme to determine your entire review of a product by one feature,
especially if you rarely used it.
Huh. That's what you have been doing for months in here, isn't it?
> > I still have to have a cell phone, I
> > still have to have an iPod.
> You choose to have those other things, you don't have to.
Good point. I don't know why people say they have to have either one.
There are plenty of ways around either.
Sandman
> > Yeah, well, I suppose an actual cell phone and an iPod might actually
> > be worth $100 in this context.
>
> I don't see what a cell phone combined with an iPod has to do with
> this, seeing how that combination doesn't have the features of the
> N800 or the iPhone.
What do you mean? The iPhone is a cell phone, an iPod and a internet
tablet. A Nokia N800 is only a internet tablet.
> > > 2. Open Source
> >
> > This really isn't a unique selling point for the target audience.
>
> Here we see the Mac Advocate tactic of creating an arbitrary,
> artificial "target audience" to match a product that Apple is selling.
Well, the target audience of the iPhone is cellphone buyers. I am
pretty sure no one of those cares about open source, given the fact
that they haven't been running to the stores buying Linux cell phones
uptil now. :)
> > > 3. Third Party Applications
> >
> > I can see how this might become a problem for the iPhone, if third
> > party applications are sparse. Still, if Apples intentions are to keep
> > better control on third party apps and only distribute them through
> > the iTunes Store, it might work.
>
> As is typical with you, one hand gives, and the other hand takes it
> back.
How do you figure? I am agreeing with you that if Apple doesn't allow
for third party applications, that may be a problem. But if they do
allow for it, it may not be. Rumors has it that Apple may be offering
third party applications through the iTunes Store only, and not
"download and install yourself".
> > > 4. No Service Contract with Cingular Needed
> >
> > Uh, since no mobile phone is included :-D
>
> It can be paired with the mobile phone of your choice.
Right, but you can't make calls with it, since, well, it's not a
mobile phone. :)
> It's also a WIFI device with a VOIP phone built in.
Yeah, that's great. But we don't want to start comparing coverage
between Wifi and GSM. :)
> > Still, this Cingular-only approach could only work in the states.
>
> You'll have yet another Apple product to give lip service to.
What do you mean? Apple are going to have to find another carrier
solution in scandinavia than exclusivity.
And what do you mean "another"? What other Apple products am I only
giving "lip service" to? In fact, I *own* a Nokia N800. Do you? If
not, then you're only giving lip service to it, aren't you?
> > > 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> > > The N800 supports a wide range of audio and video formats. Supported
> > > audio formats are AAC, AMR, MP2, MP3, RA (Real Audio), WAV, WMA. You
> > > can play videos in the following formats: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1,
> > > MPEG-4, RV (Real Video), and Flash Video (YouTube!).
> >
> > Neither of which could be called "better" than AAC and H.264, really.
>
> It doesn't have to be called "better," it just has to be compatible
> with the formats the sites you visit are using. It gives you access
> to more content.
Yeah, which is true for flash. Youtube videos needs to be converted
for the iPhone/iPod. It's a hassle for some, I'm sure. Other than
that, I can't think of it. Most sites with downloadable content
usually has a "for iPod" link and a "for PSP" link. None has a "For
N800" link so far...
> > > 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> > > The N800 is not a cell phone. At first, I thought this was a bad
> > > thing. After thinking about it, I realized that I don't need (or even
> > > want) to haul around a mini computer with me everywhere I go.
> >
> > That's odd. The entire idea is to find a device that can replace
> > several devices successfully.
>
> Then you ought to reread items 4 and 8 several more times.
Neither of which makes the N800 replace a cell phone. Have you bought
a N800 to replace your cell phone? VoIP is an application on the N800,
not a standby mode that is ready to receive calls at any time for
starters. And then there's the wifi/GSM covrage issue as well.
> > Sure, this could be sweet for some. Mainly technically inclined, of
> > course.
>
> Lots of regular people are doing this every day already, with PDAs and
> laptops.
I know of exactly no one. Maybe your experience is different.
> > > With the iPhone, you will need to make all your calls via Cingular.
> > > More money for Cingular and Apple.
> >
> > In the states. :)
>
> Being SOL makes you smile?
In what way am I "SOL"?
> > Since it's a mobile phone, it's communication focus is on GSM/EDGE,
> > which hasn't got enough bandwidth to do video calls. When the iPhone
> > goes 3G, video calls should be available.
>
> Vaporware to the rescue!
It hasn't been announced that it will. I'm just assuming.
> > Plus, the camera quality of the N800 really truly sucks. :)
>
> I don't believe you.
Here's a shot of my office made by it:
http://sandman.net/files/photo_N800.jpg
That's 640x480 in really crappy quality. For reference, this is a shot
made by the built-in iSight of my MacBook Pro:
http://sandman.net/files/photo_iSight.jpg
It could hardly be called good quality, but it's the same size as the
N80 and is a lot better. It's worth noting that not only is it the
same resolution as the N800 (640x480), it's taken with a camera lens
which is pretty much the same size as well.
I also took a shot with my Nokia N95, which has a 5 megapixel camera:
http://sandman.net/files/photo_N95.jpg
Pretty bad quality for a 5MP camera if you ask me. Here's an image
from a Canon EOS400:
http://sandman.net/files/photo_EOS400.jpg
You can even see the text "Great Quality, Edwin" on one of my screens,
and the N800 and N95 on the table. :)
> > > 10. It's Available Now
> >
> > I know, I have one. It's pretty nice,
>
> Truly sucking makes it pretty nice?
The N800 doesn't truly suck. It's camera truly sucks.
> > but it's only another device. It
> > doesn't replace any other device. I still have to have a cell phone, I
> > still have to have an iPod.
>
> You choose to have those other things, you don't have to.
Of course I do, since N800 doesn't have either.
--
Sandman[.net]
Gamma
<m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> http://sandman.net/files/photo_EOS400.jpg
Cool office set-up, Sandy. What do you do?
Sandman
Gamma <Ga...@coldmail.com> wrote:
I host web sites on my homebuilt content management system, running
off three Xserves.
I also do design, illustrations and 3D jobs.
That's not me on the picture. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
-hh
> 1. Price
> Nokia N800: $399
> 2. Open Source
> The Nokia N800 is a Linux device which requires all developers
> to program exclusively in only the languages that Linux supports
> A Brick contains no OS restritions. Simply write on it
> with *any* marker in *any* language you want.
> 3. Third Party Applications
> Nokia strongly encourages 3rd party developers...
> Anyone can throw a brick. No developer necessary...do it yourself!
> 4. Service Contract...
> With the Nokia N800, you can access via Wi-Fi or with a
> Bluetooth enabled mobile phone, but these both still
> typically require some sort of service contract & payments.
> The Brick lets you send your message for free, and can be
> thrown anywhere ... the leader in true worldwide coverage.
> 5. Storage
> The Nokia N800 has two memory slots that support a limited
> range of memory cards (SD, miniSD, microSD, MMC and RS-MMC).
> The Brick flattens any memory card type in just a couple of hits.
> 6. Better Audio and Video Codec Support
> The N800 supports a limited range of audio and video formats.
> The Brick, properly used, can even make a deaf mute scream.
> 7. It's Not a Cell Phone
> The N800 is not a cell phone.
> The Brick is the original 'not a cell phone'.
> 8. It is a VoIP Phone
> The N800 can be used to for making VoIP calls via Gizmo and
> GoogleTalk, where these services are available; Skype "soon".
> The Brick has been used sending messages for a millennia.
> 9. Webcam for Video Conferencing
> The N800 also has a built in webcam...
> Holding the Brick high gets your message across, even on CNN.
> 10. It's Available Now
> The Nokia N800...You can order one today.
> The Brick has been available far longer...centuries longer.
Coming next week: The Zune versus a Motorcycle! :-)
-hh
Sandman
-hh <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Hahaha!
--
Sandman[.net]
Dirk
Belphegor
> In article <1178656184.977944.155...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
This is truly a classic return... I bet poor Edwin never thought that
some some sucker would actually buy an N800 and be able to talk
intelligently about it.