I just sold Apple a Mac :)
Sandman
streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
find other uses for the machine as well :-D
--
Sandman[.net]
jerryeveretts
So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
Sandman
jerryeveretts <ifre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 15, 6:41 am, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >
> > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >
> > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
>
> So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
Well, that's most certainly true. But I'm pretty certain you're not
claiming that one can make powerpoint presentations that look as good
as Keynote presentations.
Plus, it's the "export to PowerPoint" function in Keynote that's
pertinent here, since I wouldn't build the entire presentation from
scratch in something like Powerpoint.
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
> In article <1179235373.369200.214...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> jerryeveretts <ifree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 15, 6:41 am, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> > > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
>
> > > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
>
> > > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
>
> > So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
>
> Well, that's most certainly true.
Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
> But I'm pretty certain you're not
> claiming that one can make powerpoint presentations that look as good
> as Keynote presentations.
Your ignorance of PowerPoint in no way shakes your faith in your Apple
god.
> Plus, it's the "export to PowerPoint" function in Keynote that's
> pertinent here, since I wouldn't build the entire presentation from
> scratch in something like Powerpoint.
Ah, so its the crappy export feature of Keynote that was responsible
for your crappy PowerPoint presentation. Gotcha.
jerryeveretts
> In article <1179235373.369200.214...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
I would say somebody equally as proficient at Powerpoint, could make
every bit as good a presentation as somebody on Keynote.
Maybe not you, and I am certainly not sayting that there is anything
wrong with Keynote, or Powerpoint. What I do know, it that if
everybody you try to hand a presentation to, has to spend $1500.00 to
make it look good, you are not doing anybody any favors, and this is
certainly a MAJOR drawback of Keynote.
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > > > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >
> > > > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > > > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > > > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > > > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > > > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >
> > > > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > > > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
> >
> > > So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
> >
> > Well, that's most certainly true.
>
> Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
In what way?
> > But I'm pretty certain you're not
> > claiming that one can make powerpoint presentations that look as good
> > as Keynote presentations.
>
> Your ignorance of PowerPoint in no way shakes your faith in your Apple
> god.
Your lack of counter-argument in no way shakes your faith in your MS
god.
> > Plus, it's the "export to PowerPoint" function in Keynote that's
> > pertinent here, since I wouldn't build the entire presentation from
> > scratch in something like Powerpoint.
>
> Ah, so its the crappy export feature of Keynote that was responsible
> for your crappy PowerPoint presentation.
I don't have a crappy PowerPoint presentation. I leave that to you :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
jerryeveretts <ifre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > > > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >
> > > > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > > > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > > > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > > > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > > > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >
> > > > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > > > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
> >
> > > So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
> >
> > Well, that's most certainly true. But I'm pretty certain you're not
> > claiming that one can make powerpoint presentations that look as good
> > as Keynote presentations.
> >
> > Plus, it's the "export to PowerPoint" function in Keynote that's
> > pertinent here, since I wouldn't build the entire presentation from
> > scratch in something like Powerpoint.
>
> I would say somebody equally as proficient at Powerpoint, could make
> every bit as good a presentation as somebody on Keynote.
I would disagree.
> Maybe not you, and I am certainly not sayting that there is anything
> wrong with Keynote, or Powerpoint.
Keynote, to my knowledge, lack lots of features found in PP. Sadly, PP
lacks tons of visual features of Keynote.
> What I do know, it that if
> everybody you try to hand a presentation to, has to spend $1500.00 to
> make it look good, you are not doing anybody any favors, and this is
> certainly a MAJOR drawback of Keynote.
If he ends up getting a Mac, I am doing him a major favor. :-D
--
Sandman[.net]
Craig Koller
Not necessarily. Keynote leverages OSX Core-level animation in
transitions that PPT can't do. I create presentations in both PPT & KN
and, although I might not be an uber-power user, I definitely live
beyond the bounds of most. Both have their strengths, but as far as
ability to create eye-catching, out-of-the-box presentations easily.
Keynote gets the nod.
Keynote is easier to place rich media content (you just drag and drop
vs. inserting "objects"). It's better with alpha channels (feathered
images are much easier). The templates are simply more refined/polished
in Keynote. A side-by-side comparison makes this obvious.
I've not used PPT 2007, so this may have changed. I do know that I've
also worked with PPT presentations directly from MSFT execs that were
very sophisticated, but accomplished this via some pretty convoluted
palette control and presented some major technical hurdles at times (we
had to eliminate one slide that simply wouldn't behave).
Bottom line: Keynote is the younger app, and it shows in some ways,
but it's designed from the ground up to more easily manipulate media
and provide compelling animation, etc. PPT was designed primarily to
show bullets and graphs, and has evolved into a more compelling
presentation tool, but it's not where Keynote is on that score.
I'm glad neither are the only games in town (after Adobe killed "Aldus
Persuasion") because the competition keeps both more honest...
Snit
mr-FA2359.12...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 3:41 AM:
Why not post the file? I would love to see how good it is! Remove any
personal data first, of course.
--
€ Teaching is a "real job"
€ The path "~/users/username/library/widget" is not common on any OS
€ The term "all widgets" does not specify a specific subgroup of widgets
Snit
1179235373.3...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 5/15/07 6:22 AM:
At least up to PowerPoint 2003 the transitions, custom animations, and even
fonts simply do not look at good. I have not played with 2007 to compare.
--
€ The tilde in an OS X path does *not* mean "the hard drive only"
€ Things which are not the same are not "identical"
€ The word "ouch" is not a sure sign of agreement.
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-FA2359.12...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 3:41 AM:
>
> > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >
> > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >
> > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
>
> Why not post the file? I would love to see how good it is! Remove any
> personal data first, of course.
This isn't personal data, it's client data.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
The fact that Keynote works only on a Mac is a major downside for the *Mac*?
If so, then, all that Windows only software is a bad thing for Windows.
Bizarre way of looking at things...
--
€ A partial subset is not synonymous with the whole
€ A person's actions speak more about him than what others say
€ Apple doesn't provide as many options as the rest of the PC industry
Snit
Fair enough. Any way to remove that so you can post it as a QuickTime movie
and show folks how much better Keynote is?
--
€ Different version numbers refer to different versions
€ Macs are Macs and Apple is still making and selling Macs
€ The early IBM PCs and Commodores shipped with an OS in ROM
Edwin
> In article <1179240593.977361.318...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > > > > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
>
> > > > > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > > > > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > > > > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > > > > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > > > > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
>
> > > > > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > > > > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
>
> > > > So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
>
> > > Well, that's most certainly true.
>
> > Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
>
> In what way?
In the way you don't know how to use it, and created a bad PowerPoint
presentation using something besides PowerPoint, but you let your
victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
> > > But I'm pretty certain you're not
> > > claiming that one can make powerpoint presentations that look as good
> > > as Keynote presentations.
>
> > Your ignorance of PowerPoint in no way shakes your faith in your Apple
> > god.
>
> Your lack of counter-argument in no way shakes your faith in your MS
> god.
I have a clear and obvious counter-argument, and I have not shown
support of MS in the manner you have shown support for Apple.
> > > Plus, it's the "export to PowerPoint" function in Keynote that's
> > > pertinent here, since I wouldn't build the entire presentation from
> > > scratch in something like Powerpoint.
>
> > Ah, so its the crappy export feature of Keynote that was responsible
> > for your crappy PowerPoint presentation.
>
> I don't have a crappy PowerPoint presentation. I leave that to you :)
You're lying again.
How much did Apple pay you for your scam? I ask for information
only.
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
> >
> > In what way?
>
> In the way you don't know how to use it, and created a bad PowerPoint
> presentation using something besides PowerPoint, but you let your
> victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
What? Don't you ever stop to read what is posted? I didn't make this
presentation in PowerPoint. I made it in Keynote. The presentation
looked like shit in PowerPoint. Naturally.
> > > Your ignorance of PowerPoint in no way shakes your faith in your Apple
> > > god.
> >
> > Your lack of counter-argument in no way shakes your faith in your MS
> > god.
>
> I have a clear and obvious counter-argument
Does one have to send you a email privately to get to read it? :-D
> and I have not shown support of MS in the manner you have shown
> support for Apple.
How's the water in Egypt?
> > > Ah, so its the crappy export feature of Keynote that was responsible
> > > for your crappy PowerPoint presentation.
> >
> > I don't have a crappy PowerPoint presentation. I leave that to you :)
>
> You're lying again.
>
> How much did Apple pay you for your scam? I ask for information
> only.
At least you didn't try to come up with a counter-argument. Good move.
:)
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-CC9584.17...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 8:52 AM:
>
> > In article <C26F24F5.8144F%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> >> mr-FA2359.12...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 3:41 AM:
> >>
> >>> So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> >>> streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >>>
> >>> The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> >>> it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> >>> PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> >>> him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> >>> wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >>>
> >>> He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> >>> find other uses for the machine as well :-D
> >>
> >> Why not post the file? I would love to see how good it is! Remove any
> >> personal data first, of course.
> >
> > This isn't personal data, it's client data.
> >
> Fair enough. Any way to remove that so you can post it as a QuickTime movie
> and show folks how much better Keynote is?
The entire presentation is client data, Michael.
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
> In article <1179245078.314395.207...@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
>
> > > In what way?
>
> > In the way you don't know how to use it, and created a bad PowerPoint
> > presentation using something besides PowerPoint, but you let your
> > victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
>
> What? Don't you ever stop to read what is posted?
I always read what is posted, as I don't share your habits.
> I didn't make this
> presentation in PowerPoint. I made it in Keynote. The presentation
> looked like shit in PowerPoint. Naturally.
I noted that your presentation looked bad because it was made in
Keynote instead of in PowerPoint. You're the guy who isn't reading
what's written in the post.
> > > > Your ignorance of PowerPoint in no way shakes your faith in your Apple
> > > > god.
>
> > > Your lack of counter-argument in no way shakes your faith in your MS
> > > god.
>
> > I have a clear and obvious counter-argument
>
> Does one have to send you a email privately to get to read it? :-D
Since you can't grok it here, how will emailing it to you help?
> > and I have not shown support of MS in the manner you have shown
> > support for Apple.
>
> How's the water in Egypt?
You ought to know, as you're up to your neck in it, with crocodiles
headed your way...
> > > > Ah, so its the crappy export feature of Keynote that was responsible
> > > > for your crappy PowerPoint presentation.
>
> > > I don't have a crappy PowerPoint presentation. I leave that to you :)
>
> > You're lying again.
>
> > How much did Apple pay you for your scam? I ask for information
> > only.
>
> At least you didn't try to come up with a counter-argument. Good move.
> :)
The smiley doesn't make your lies true.
Steve Carroll
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
Don't let him anywhere near it. Despite all his clamoring about his 'clients'
(and I use that term loosely when he is involved;) and what he fantasizes would
be my response if he posted some of his "pro" work... you know it's just a bunch
of hypocritical projection on his part. He'd try to make trouble for you any way
he can. Remember that he contacted Ebot's living community with his delusions...
trying to get her into some kind of trouble or other.
--
"None of you can be honest... you are all pathetic." - Snit
"I do not KF people" - Snit
"Not only do I lie about what others are claiming,
I show evidence from the records".-Snit
"You should take one of my IT classes some day." - Snit
Timberwoof
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
Edward R. Tufte, in "Beautiful Evidence," devotes a chapter to the evils
of PowerPoint. As an example, he presents a PowerPoint version of the
Gettysburg Address. He says that PowerPoint's cognitive style forces
itself on users, and while it helps the clueless bottom ten percentile
get their thoughts organized and may allow the top ten percentile make
good presentations despite its limitations, it harms the ability of the
other 80% to make good presentations.
(He tells the story of a new executive at IBM who was interviewing his
managers. The first one started off with a PowerPoint presentation with
lots of key words and visual fluff. He reached over and turned off the
projector, then told the manager, "Never mind the fancy presentation.
Just talk to me about your business.")
I've heard stories of eight graders spending three weeks putting
together PowerPoint presentations containing maybe eighty words, in
which time they could be writing papers containing ten times that much
information.
Tufte repeated the famous accusation that the use of PowerPoint at NASA
helped obfuscate problems with the wing of the Columbia. He even
presented the PowerPoint page and showed how its major bullet points
were contradicted by some tiny facts.
How does Keynote avoid these problems?
PowerPoint Version, for those who can only read a certain number of
words in any given evening:
Evils of PowerPoint
* Gettysburg Address example
* Helps clueless
* Doesn't hinder clueful
* Harms the other 80%
PowerPoint Users
* IBM manager
* Eighth Graders
* NASA
Summary
* PowerPoint sucks
* Does Keynote also suck?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
jerryeveretts
> Bizarre way of looking at things...
Not at all, because with Windows you are creating something that the
VAST majority of users can use. With an Apple only product you are
making it unusable to over 95% of the world.
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
> >
> > > > In what way?
> >
> > > In the way you don't know how to use it, and created a bad PowerPoint
> > > presentation using something besides PowerPoint, but you let your
> > > victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
> >
> > What? Don't you ever stop to read what is posted?
>
> I always read what is posted, as I don't share your habits.
>
> > I didn't make this
> > presentation in PowerPoint. I made it in Keynote. The presentation
> > looked like shit in PowerPoint. Naturally.
>
> I noted that your presentation looked bad because it was made in
> Keynote instead of in PowerPoint.
No, it looked good because it was made in Keynote. When exported to
PowerPoint, it obviously looked bad.
Tell me again where I "misrepresented PowerPoint", will you?
> > > I have a clear and obvious counter-argument
> >
> > Does one have to send you a email privately to get to read it? :-D
>
> Since you can't grok it here, how will emailing it to you help?
I was just assuming you had some sort of criteria for letting others
know this supposed counter-argument you refuse to post here.
<snip rest of the Edwin Circus>
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Steve Carroll <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>> Fair enough. Any way to remove that so you can post it as a
>>> QuickTime movie and show folks how much better Keynote is?
>>
>> The entire presentation is client data, Michael.
>
> Don't let him anywhere near it. Despite all his clamoring about his
> 'clients' (and I use that term loosely when he is involved;) and
> what he fantasizes would be my response if he posted some of his
> "pro" work... you know it's just a bunch of hypocritical projection
> on his part. He'd try to make trouble for you any way he can.
> Remember that he contacted Ebot's living community with his
> delusions... trying to get her into some kind of trouble or other.
If he signs an agreement to end the BS, I wouldn't mind showing him
stuff, if he was interested. Not client data, however. It's all in
Swedish, of course, but that's beside the point. You don't send
clients files around.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
<timberwoof.spam-F6...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberw...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
It doesn't. All you wrote above applies to the one making the
presentation, not the software you use to do the presentation. It's
like saying that using PhotoShop, most model images are skewed to fit
the audience perception of beauty. How does Gimp avoid that?
> PowerPoint Version, for those who can only read a certain number of
> words in any given evening:
It seems to me that you're saying that presentation slides should be
word-heavy? But since that is utter nonsense, I'm assuming that I am
misunderstanding you.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
If only you would use your expert skills of obfuscation for good and not
evil. Oh well. In the end you simply cannot even show that this supposed
Keynote exists. Maybe it does... maybe not. OK.
--
€ There is no known malware that attacks OS X in the wild
€ There are two general types of PCs: Macs and PCs (odd naming conventions!)
€ Mac OS X 10.x.x is a version of Mac OS
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > The entire presentation is client data, Michael.
>
> If only you would use your expert skills of obfuscation for good and not
> evil. Oh well. In the end you simply cannot even show that this supposed
> Keynote exists. Maybe it does... maybe not. OK.
Hahaha! Thanks for showing that your motive in this thread was to rev
up your Snit Circus again.
let me know when you're ready to be honest and honorable and sign the
below agreement with me. Let me know if there is something in the
agreement you want to discuss or clarify.
Code of Honesty:
1) Be specific. Use the specific example of what it is you that is
bothering you. Vague complaints are hard to agree on, especially
in a forum like this.
2) Don't generalize. Avoid words like "never" or "always." Such
generalizations are usually inaccurate and will heighten tensions.
3) Don't stockpile. Storing up lots of grievances over time is
counterproductive. It's almost impossible to deal with numerous old
problems for which interpretations may differ. Try to deal with
problems as they arise.
4) Agree to let the past go...
Dishonesty examples:
- Creative snipping
- Deliberate misinterpretation
- Diversion
- Having an agenda
- Lying
- Role Reversal
- Insults
- Forging posts and material
- Thread hijacking
- Projection
- Unsubstantiated accusations
- Antagonizing through other media
- Antagonizing threads
- Ignoring evidence
- Obfuscation
It should be clear that this agreement is valid for all posts made by
the signers, not merely those between the signers. Agreeing to this
displays ones commitment to "end the BS" (as worded by one possible
signer) and end ongoing and past disputes to embrace common
understanding, patience and tolerance.
After signing, the signers should refrain from entering discussions
that are, and opt-out of discussion that are becoming, offensive or
destructive, regardless of who is the instigator. This unless the
signer feels confident that he or she can continue participation
without engaging in the elevated level of argumentation.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
> In article <C26F3299.814A2%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>> The entire presentation is client data, Michael.
>>
>> If only you would use your expert skills of obfuscation for good and not
>> evil. Oh well. In the end you simply cannot even show that this supposed
>> Keynote exists. Maybe it does... maybe not. OK.
>
> Hahaha!
Well, your trolling can be funny.
<snip />
--
€ OS X is partially based on BSD (esp. FreeBSD)
€ OS X users are at far less risk of malware then are XP users
€ Photoshop is an image editing application
Dave Fritzinger
> In article <1179235373.369200.214...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
unable to handle large presentations smoothly, and doesn't display pdf
graphics well at all. As an example, a while ago, I had prepared a
large presentation in Powerpoint X. Graphs were inserted by cutting
and pasting from Excel, and other graphics were inserted by cutting
and pasting from either Photoshop or Canvas. It ran fine, with quick
transitions. When I upgraded to Powerpoint 2004, the same presentation
ran slow as molasses, sometimes taking 10 or more seconds to start a
transition from one slide to another. I tried redoing the presentation
with pdf graphics, and was rewarded with very low resolutuion graphics
(though they appeared just fine, and at high resolution when opened in
either Preview or Acrobat). I tried changing the format of the
graphics to jpg, which was a little better, but still slow. Then, I
imported the whole thing to Keynote, and it worked beautifully. Even
with the most complex slides, the transitions were instantaneous.
BTW, the problems were the same on 3 different machines, a PM G5/dual
2.0 (1 Meg, revA), an iMac G5/20"/1.0 Gig, and a MacBook Pro (15.4"/
1.83 CD/1 Gig).
That is why I have stopped using Powerpoint, and do all my
presentations in Keynote.
--
Dave Fritzinger
Honolulu, HI
Snit
timberwoof.spam-F6...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net on 5/15/07
9:28 AM:
Far too often people ignore the importance of notes. I have my students
write a paper first and then summarize it and then turn it into a
presentation.
>
> Tufte repeated the famous accusation that the use of PowerPoint at NASA
> helped obfuscate problems with the wing of the Columbia. He even
> presented the PowerPoint page and showed how its major bullet points
> were contradicted by some tiny facts.
>
> How does Keynote avoid these problems?
Both are tools that can be used well or used poorly.
>
> PowerPoint Version, for those who can only read a certain number of
> words in any given evening:
>
> Evils of PowerPoint
> * Gettysburg Address example
> * Helps clueless
> * Doesn't hinder clueful
> * Harms the other 80%
>
> PowerPoint Users
> * IBM manager
> * Eighth Graders
> * NASA
>
> Summary
> * PowerPoint sucks
> * Does Keynote also suck?
The PowerPoint (or Keynote) component of a presentation is only a very small
part of the whole presentation... though, I admit, many people are not
taught this.
--
€ Deleting from a *Save* dialog is not a sign of well done design
€ A personal computer without an OS is crippled by that lacking
€ Web image alt-text shouldn't generally be "space", "left" or "right"
Edwin
> In article <1179245945.659472.21...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Yet had no problem misrepresenting PowerPoint.
>
> > > > > In what way?
>
> > > > In the way you don't know how to use it, and created a bad PowerPoint
> > > > presentation using something besides PowerPoint, but you let your
> > > > victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
>
> > > What? Don't you ever stop to read what is posted?
>
> > I always read what is posted, as I don't share your habits.
>
> > > I didn't make this
> > > presentation in PowerPoint. I made it in Keynote. The presentation
> > > looked like shit in PowerPoint. Naturally.
>
> > I noted that your presentation looked bad because it was made in
> > Keynote instead of in PowerPoint.
>
> No, it looked good because it was made in Keynote. When exported to
> PowerPoint, it obviously looked bad.
It didn't become a PowerPoint presentation made in PowerPoint when you
exported it to PowerPoint. It remained a PowerPoint presentation
made in Keynote. Keynote made a crappy PowerPoint presentation. So
Keynote makes bad looking PowerPoint presentations.
> Tell me again where I "misrepresented PowerPoint", will you?
Again? Did you have a brain tumor for breakfast?
It's the part where you turned out a crappy PowerPoint presentation
with Keynote and let your victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
How many more times will you need this repeated to you?
> > > > I have a clear and obvious counter-argument
>
> > > Does one have to send you a email privately to get to read it? :-D
>
> > Since you can't grok it here, how will emailing it to you help?
>
> I was just assuming you had some sort of criteria for letting others
> know this supposed counter-argument you refuse to post here.
You're even stupider today than you usually are. You need a new
form of the seeing-eye dog used by the blind. You need a "seeing-
mind dog" to drag you to the stuff you're too stupid to see for
yourself.
[snip of the rest of Jonas' lies]
John C. Randolph
> So what you are telling us is that you suck with Powerpoint...
Everybody sucks with powerpoint, Jerry. That's the nature of the beast.
http://static.flickr.com/28/58697220_0f5db5fe00.jpg
-jcr
John C. Randolph
>
> I would say somebody equally as proficient at Powerpoint, could make
> every bit as good a presentation as somebody on Keynote.
You could say it, but you'd be wrong.
-jcr
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > No, it looked good because it was made in Keynote. When exported to
> > PowerPoint, it obviously looked bad.
>
> It didn't become a PowerPoint presentation made in PowerPoint when you
> exported it to PowerPoint.
Nor did I ever claim it did, Mr Obvious, son of Duh.
> It remained a PowerPoint presentation
> made in Keynote.
The observation skills are strong in this one.
> Keynote made a crappy PowerPoint presentation. So
> Keynote makes bad looking PowerPoint presentations.
I.e. I did not. Thanks for finally understanding that. Phew!
> > Tell me again where I "misrepresented PowerPoint", will you?
>
> Again?
Yeah, you sort of didn't... last time. :)
> It's the part where you turned out a crappy PowerPoint presentation
> with Keynote and let your victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
Where did I claim this was PowerPoint's fault?
> How many more times will you need this repeated to you?
You can repeat it as many times as you think it divert attention away
from the fact that I didn't "misrepresent" PowerPoint. I'll let you
decide how many times that is. :)
> > I was just assuming you had some sort of criteria for letting others
> > know this supposed counter-argument you refuse to post here.
>
> You're even stupider today than you usually are. You need a new
> form of the seeing-eye dog used by the blind. You need a "seeing-
> mind dog" to drag you to the stuff you're too stupid to see for
> yourself.
So what does it take to make you present this supposed
counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
> In article <1179250556.164457.76...@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Upon rereading your original post, I see that I have been mistaken in
what I wrote. I apologize for my mistaken accuastions and insults.
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Apology accepted.
--
Sandman[.net]
none
> I would say somebody equally as proficient at Powerpoint, could make
> every bit as good a presentation as somebody on Keynote.
>
> Maybe not you, and I am certainly not sayting that there is anything
> wrong with Keynote, or Powerpoint. What I do know, it that if
> everybody you try to hand a presentation to, has to spend $1500.00 to
> make it look good, you are not doing anybody any favors, and this is
> certainly a MAJOR drawback of Keynote.
incorrect jerry, PowerPoint has no way to make smooth graphics since
Windows has no ability to handle cinema level presentations, it has no
ability to do HD either. PowerPoint stuff looks horrible no matter what
the experience level. And gosh, it's just $79, so your number is WAY
off. even if you didn't have a mac it would cost someone $200-$678.
learn to check facts jerry. i always do.
Timberwoof
jerryeveretts <ifre...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, like the guy who created a spreadsheet in Office 2007 and sent it
around the office, only nobody else can open it because they're still
using some previous version?
Oh, like the guy who made an RTF document with TextEdit that everybody
can open? Or the guy who made a standards-compliant web site that every
web browser can open? Or the guy who made a DVD that can be played in
any DVD player?
none
that's certainly a stupid reason, do you even think before you post? who
cares if 95% can't use it, it's "presentation" software, not something
you hand out to people. if you want 100% of the people to see it, just
save it to the web or make a quicktime movie of it. geesh!
Timberwoof
<timberwoof.spam-F6...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberw...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
> In article <mr-FA2359.12...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
>
> > So I had this presentation for our local energy company about
> > streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet through my service.
> >
> > The VP was so impressed with the quality of my presentation and wanted
> > it for personal use to use internally. I said that if I convert it to
> > PowerPoint, it won't look half as good as it does in Keynote, and sent
> > him a sample. Exporting it as a video wasn't feasible either, since he
> > wanted to be able to add or edit info in the presentation.
> >
> > He decided to buy a Mac to run the presentation on. I'm sure he'll
> > find other uses for the machine as well :-D
>
> Edward R. Tufte, in "Beautiful Evidence," devotes a chapter to the evils
> of PowerPoint. As an example, he presents a PowerPoint version of the
> Gettysburg Address.
Timberwoof
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
Tufte makes the case that PowerPoint is responsible because of the
limited space for actual content and the way it wants you to break the
content into bite-sized chunks.
> It's
> like saying that using PhotoShop, most model images are skewed to fit
> the audience perception of beauty. How does Gimp avoid that?
>
> > PowerPoint Version, for those who can only read a certain number of
> > words in any given evening:
>
> It seems to me that you're saying that presentation slides should be
> word-heavy? But since that is utter nonsense, I'm assuming that I am
> misunderstanding you.
People should not confuse PowerPoint for the presentation medium. It
makes outlines, not real content. It is not a substitute for an
engineering report, but it gets used that way. I've seen web sites that
give PowerPoint presentations as though they were actually content.
Sandman
<timberwoof.spam-C3...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberw...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
> > It doesn't. All you wrote above applies to the one making the
> > presentation, not the software you use to do the presentation.
>
> Tufte makes the case that PowerPoint is responsible because of the
> limited space for actual content and the way it wants you to break the
> content into bite-sized chunks.
But neither of that limits or forces the presenter to do the
presentation in a specific way. Obviously PowerPoint and Keynote has a
limited space.
>> It's like saying that using PhotoShop, most model images are skewed
>> to fit the audience perception of beauty. How does Gimp avoid that?
>>
>>> PowerPoint Version, for those who can only read a certain number
>>> of words in any given evening:
>>
>> It seems to me that you're saying that presentation slides should
>> be word-heavy? But since that is utter nonsense, I'm assuming that
>> I am misunderstanding you.
>
> People should not confuse PowerPoint for the presentation medium. It
> makes outlines, not real content. It is not a substitute for an
> engineering report, but it gets used that way. I've seen web sites that
> give PowerPoint presentations as though they were actually content.
If they are, it's not due to some inherent error in PowerPoint.
--
Sandman[.net]
George Graves
(in article <1179246655.7...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>):
Do you WinTurds actually BELIEVE that bullshit? I see that most of you make
statements like this almost daily. If you actually do believe that Macs are
unusable, or can only be used as MP3 repositories (Pratt), or cannot
communicate with the rest of the world, or all of the other crap of that
nature you spew here constantly, then the lot of you are much more stupid
than I thought you were, and FAR, far, far, more clueless about computers.
Jolly Roger
This is nothing new. How else could you possibly explain someone making
consistently bad choices over and over throughout their lives? It's
common knowledge that the education level and average intelligence of
people who pick Macs is higher than people who pick Windows as their
desktop operating system. Mac users tend to have higher-paying jobs,
and own more expensive things as well.
--
JR
jerryeveretts
jerryeveretts
and also, quit living in last century... The truly creative give the
presentation, then hand out literature on Business card CD's for the
client to review later :)
Edwin
> In article <1179254569.495626.57...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Thank you.
jerryeveretts
> Oh, like the guy who created a spreadsheet in Office 2007 and sent it
> around the office, only nobody else can open it because they're still
> using some previous version?
Office 2007 will save so that any version of Excel can open it... only
a tool wouldn't know what his coworkers are using... was that you? You
can admit it, we are all friends here.
jerryeveretts
> Windows has no ability to handle cinema level presentations.
Huh? are you making shit up again?
Snit
1179250556....@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com on 5/15/07 10:35 AM:
>>> I noted that your presentation looked bad because it was made in
>>> Keynote instead of in PowerPoint.
>>
>> No, it looked good because it was made in Keynote. When exported to
>> PowerPoint, it obviously looked bad.
>
> It didn't become a PowerPoint presentation made in PowerPoint when you
> exported it to PowerPoint. It remained a PowerPoint presentation
> made in Keynote. Keynote made a crappy PowerPoint presentation. So
> Keynote makes bad looking PowerPoint presentations.
Overall, however, at least up until PP2003, there simply is no way to have
the slides look at good in PowerPoint as they can look in Keynote. With
that said, of course, you cannot do some of the animation and motion in
Keynote that you can in PowerPoint... and there are some other "lacking"
features. For *most* uses this is not an issue - if anything those things
distract from the presentation, but there are times when they can be useful.
>
>> Tell me again where I "misrepresented PowerPoint", will you?
>
> Again? Did you have a brain tumor for breakfast?
>
> It's the part where you turned out a crappy PowerPoint presentation
> with Keynote and let your victim think it was PowerPoint's fault.
>
> How many more times will you need this repeated to you?
Do you understand the concept that PowerPoint, at least up to the 2003
version, does not have the ability to create presentations like Keynote.
Here: <http://www.apple.com/iwork/quicktour/keynote/>. Watch the graphics
and animation/transition on it... and how about exporting to DVD and other
options. Pretty darn cool.
Heck, here a movie exported from Keynote... a pretty simple one"
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ComputerTerms>. If you think you can do
the same with PowerPoint I would love to see it. Hint: you will not be able
to.
Sandman's comments are pretty much right on the mark... you just do not get
it (sadly Sandman will see this as "baiting" him... but heck, I will *still*
be honest and honorable even if it offends him).
--
€ Pros aren't beginners in their field (though there are new pros)
€ Similarly configured Macs and Win machines tend to cost roughly the same
€ Some people do use the term "screen name" in relation to IRC
Snit
...
> Nor did I ever claim it did, Mr Obvious, son of Duh.
...
> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
Do you get the irony?
--
€ A partial subset is not synonymous with the whole
€ A person's actions speak more about him than what others say
€ Apple doesn't provide as many options as the rest of the PC industry
Snit
>> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
>> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
>> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
>
> Upon rereading your original post, I see that I have been mistaken in
> what I wrote. I apologize for my mistaken accuastions and insults.
Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that in
CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
--
€ Different viruses are still different even if in the same "family"
€ Dreamweaver and GoLive are professional web development applications
€ Dreamweaver, being the #1 pro web design tool, is used by many pros
Steve Carroll
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <noone-29B8E6....@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Steve Carroll <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Fair enough. Any way to remove that so you can post it as a
> >>> QuickTime movie and show folks how much better Keynote is?
> >>
> >> The entire presentation is client data, Michael.
> >
> > Don't let him anywhere near it. Despite all his clamoring about his
> > 'clients' (and I use that term loosely when he is involved;) and
> > what he fantasizes would be my response if he posted some of his
> > "pro" work... you know it's just a bunch of hypocritical projection
> > on his part. He'd try to make trouble for you any way he can.
> > Remember that he contacted Ebot's living community with his
> > delusions... trying to get her into some kind of trouble or other.
>
> If he signs an agreement to end the BS, I wouldn't mind showing him
> stuff, if he was interested.
C'mon... do you really think he would honor any agreement he entered in to;)
> Not client data, however. It's all in
> Swedish, of course, but that's beside the point. You don't send
> clients files around.
--
"None of you can be honest... you are all pathetic." - Snit
"I do not KF people" - Snit
"Not only do I lie about what others are claiming,
I show evidence from the records".-Snit
"You should take one of my IT classes some day." - Snit
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-31CC8C.20...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 11:05 AM:
>
> ...
> > Nor did I ever claim it did, Mr Obvious, son of Duh.
> ...
> > So what does it take to make you present this supposed
> > counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
> > your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
>
> Do you get the irony?
No? Calling someone "Mr Obvious" is a schoolyard insult to you? That
may explain why you think "You're evasive!" is an insult.
Please go on record on this - Do you or do you not think pointing out
that someone made an obvious remark is an insult?
This could explain LOTS of your behaviour here.
--
Sandman[.net]
ZnU
<timberwoof.spam-B2...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberw...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
I've seen much worse. You don't have a really bad PowerPoint presentation
until you have three paragraphs of 11 pt. text on a slide. And music.
Show people this page:
http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2005/11/the_zen_estheti.html
If they get it, their presentations will probably start improving. If they
tell you you're an idiot, they're probably hopeless.
--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> Sandman's comments are pretty much right on the mark... you just do not get
> it
The above is not baiting. It falls within the "give or take" marginal.
> (sadly Sandman will see this as "baiting" him... but heck, I will *still*
> be honest and honorable even if it offends him).
The above is baiting, making this a baiting post of yours.
You just couldn't help yourself, could you. You just had to provide a
very good example of the definition you provided yourself.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Steve Carroll <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> > > Don't let him anywhere near it. Despite all his clamoring about his
> > > 'clients' (and I use that term loosely when he is involved;) and
> > > what he fantasizes would be my response if he posted some of his
> > > "pro" work... you know it's just a bunch of hypocritical projection
> > > on his part. He'd try to make trouble for you any way he can.
> > > Remember that he contacted Ebot's living community with his
> > > delusions... trying to get her into some kind of trouble or other.
> >
> > If he signs an agreement to end the BS, I wouldn't mind showing him
> > stuff, if he was interested.
>
> C'mon... do you really think he would honor any agreement he entered in to;)
Well, he hasn't so far. But one can hope, right?
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
Noting that someone made an obvious remark is not sufficient for the comment
to be an insult. *Your* comments, on the other hand, clearly are insults...
of the grade school variety. :)
>
> This could explain LOTS of your behaviour here.
The fact you are pushing a straw man is obvious.
--
€ There is no known malware that attacks OS X in the wild
€ There are two general types of PCs: Macs and PCs (odd naming conventions!)
€ Mac OS X 10.x.x is a version of Mac OS
Snit
> In article <C26F64B1.81562%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> Sandman's comments are pretty much right on the mark... you just do not get
>> it
>
> The above is not baiting. It falls within the "give or take" marginal.
In the past you have called comments where I defended you "baiting". Why do
you now flip-flop? Remember the facts:
1) You talked about your frustration of a beta program ending
before you could get a product in the exact suite you wanted to.
2) Someone else belittled you for it.
3) I defended you by saying if you were learning CS3 I can see
where you might be frustrated.
4) You whined that to defend you is a form of *baiting* you.
5) I asked if maybe my guess was incorrect and perhaps you are not learning
to use CS3... hey, if I am wrong just let me know!
6) ... and you whine again! Even asking you if I am wrong about you is,
to you, somehow *baiting* you.
You never did tell me if my guess was wrong. If it was, of course, I stand
corrected - but you simply ran.
--
€ Deleting from a *Save* dialog is not a sign of well done design
€ A personal computer without an OS is crippled by that lacking
€ Web image alt-text shouldn't generally be "space", "left" or "right"
Edwin
> "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> stated in post
> 1179254569.495626.57...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com on 5/15/07 11:42 AM:
>
> >> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
> >> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
> >> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
>
> > Upon rereading your original post, I see that I have been mistaken in
> > what I wrote. I apologize for my mistaken accuastions and insults.
>
> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that in
> CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
Snit
When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this case you did
the same. If you know of any time I have not done so I welcome you pointing
it out - heck any time from, say, the start of this year.
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> ...
> >>> Nor did I ever claim it did, Mr Obvious, son of Duh.
> >> ...
> >>> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
> >>> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
> >>> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
> >>
> >> Do you get the irony?
> >
> > No? Calling someone "Mr Obvious" is a schoolyard insult to you? That
> > may explain why you think "You're evasive!" is an insult.
> >
> > Please go on record on this - Do you or do you not think pointing out
> > that someone made an obvious remark is an insult?
>
> Noting that someone made an obvious remark is not sufficient for the comment
> to be an insult. *Your* comments, on the other hand, clearly are insults...
> of the grade school variety. :)
So, when I point out that someone makes an obvious remark, it's an
insult, but it wouldn't be when you do it, for example?
> > This could explain LOTS of your behaviour here.
>
> The fact you are pushing a straw man is obvious.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> Sandman's comments are pretty much right on the mark... you just do not get
> >> it
> >
> > The above is not baiting. It falls within the "give or take" marginal.
>
> In the past you have called comments where I defended you "baiting".
I have never called comments where you defended me baiting me. Only
comments where you were baiting me, as when you were implying that I
was "learning CS3", another one of your numerous attempts to rev up
your "Sandman is not a professional" Circuses.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that
> >> in
> >> CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
> >
> > Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
> >
> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them...
What about the times you make a mistake but refuse to admit it?
Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
> In article <C26F6715.81574%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>>> ...
>>>>> Nor did I ever claim it did, Mr Obvious, son of Duh.
>>>> ...
>>>>> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
>>>>> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
>>>>> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
>>>>
>>>> Do you get the irony?
>>>
>>> No? Calling someone "Mr Obvious" is a schoolyard insult to you? That
>>> may explain why you think "You're evasive!" is an insult.
>>>
>>> Please go on record on this - Do you or do you not think pointing out
>>> that someone made an obvious remark is an insult?
>>
>> Noting that someone made an obvious remark is not sufficient for the comment
>> to be an insult. *Your* comments, on the other hand, clearly are insults...
>> of the grade school variety. :)
>
> So, when I point out that someone makes an obvious remark, it's an
> insult, but it wouldn't be when you do it, for example?
Incorrect.
>
>>> This could explain LOTS of your behaviour here.
>>
>> The fact you are pushing a straw man is obvious.
The fact you posted another straw man is, again, obvious.
--
€ The tilde in an OS X path does *not* mean "the hard drive only"
€ Things which are not the same are not "identical"
€ The word "ouch" is not a sure sign of agreement.
Snit
> In article <C26F6803.81579%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Sandman's comments are pretty much right on the mark... you just do not get
>>>> it
>>>
>>> The above is not baiting. It falls within the "give or take" marginal.
>>
>> In the past you have called comments where I defended you "baiting".
>
> I have never called comments where you defended me baiting me.
You are lying:
1) You talked about your frustration of a beta program ending
before you could get a product in the exact suite you wanted to.
2) Someone else belittled you for it.
3) I defended you by saying if you were learning CS3 I can see
where you might be frustrated.
4) You whined that to defend you is a form of *baiting* you.
5) I asked if maybe my guess was incorrect and perhaps you are not learning
to use CS3... hey, if I am wrong just let me know!
6) ... and you whine again! Even asking you if I am wrong about you is,
to you, somehow *baiting* you.
Note below where you try to claim it is "baiting" to defend your frustration
by saying if you were using the beta in a reasonable way (to learn the new
program) or would make sense for you to not like the pause in access. You
whine that I implied you were learning CS3... which I noted I *did* state
and asked you for a correction. If you were not working on even learning
the new program you were whining you had no access to then I stand
corrected.
> Only comments where you were baiting me, as when you were implying that I was
> "learning CS3", another one of your numerous attempts to rev up your "Sandman
> is not a professional" Circuses.
Why would a professional *not* work on learning the new version of a pro
program they use? I know I am working on learning the new Dreamweaver and
Photoshop - I use them both in my professional life and learning them is
very important to me. I have no qualms in commenting about how I, as a
professional, learn.
Snit
> In article <C26F69BB.8157D%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that
>>>> in
>>>> CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
>>>
>>> Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
>>>
>> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this case you did
>> the same. If you know of any time I have not done so I welcome you pointing
>> it out - heck any time from, say, the start of this year.
>
> What about the times you make a mistake but refuse to admit it?
>
> Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
>
I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
Edwin
> "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> stated in post
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 15, 3:24 pm, Snit <C...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> stated in post
> >> 1179254569.495626.57...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com on 5/15/07 11:42 AM:
>
> >>>> So what does it take to make you present this supposed
> >>>> counter-argument? More schoolyard insults? I don't do them, that's
> >>>> your forté, not mine. Sorry. :)
>
> >>> Upon rereading your original post, I see that I have been mistaken in
> >>> what I wrote. I apologize for my mistaken accuastions and insults.
>
> >> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that in
> >> CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
>
> > Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
>
> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this case you did
> the same. If you know of any time I have not done so I welcome you pointing
> it out - heck any time from, say, the start of this year.
All of that was pointed out to you when it occurred. You're not
fooling anybody but yourself.
Steve Carroll
Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
The only thing Snit knows about being a professional is related to the one thing
he does well; I was shocked to learn that there even is such a thing as a
professional mental health patient;)
ed
wrote:
<snip>
> How does Keynote avoid these problems?
it doesn't.
the real problems:
- the nasa example, is an example of dishonest people trying to hide
problems. powerpoint or not, the problem is hiding the technical
problem.
-the gettysburg address example is an example of a BAD powerpoint
presentation. you can have bad presentations with or without
powerpoint. most people are bad presenters to begin with- powerpoint
doesn't change that.
- the ibm example is an example of someone trying to kiss ass with all
the right buzz words and no substance. surely you've seen that
outside of powerpoint briefings (and let's face it, someone who brings
a presentation to something described as an 'interview' probably isn't
the sharpest tack in the box).
i highly recommend the book 'beyond bulletpoints' for anyone who has
to do a lot of briefings.
Snit
Your lack of a single example is noted.
I extended the offer to Sandman ... I bet he is equally incapable of
pointing to examples. I also asked Sandman to reciprocate... and will ask
you the same: do you mind if I point out some of your clearly incorrect
comments from the start of the year? I bet you are not willing to
acknowledge you are wrong.
You see, Edwin, this is one way I am different than you and the other trolls
- I welcome people pointing out my mistakes, as long as they do so in a
tasteful way - where you and the other trolls run at the mere thought.
Edwin
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <C26F69BB.8157D%C...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > Snit <C...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see more of that
> >>>> in
> >>>> CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments here.
>
> >>> Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
>
> >> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this case you did
> >> the same. If you know of any time I have not done so I welcome you pointing
> >> it out - heck any time from, say, the start of this year.
>
> > What about the times you make a mistake but refuse to admit it?
>
> > Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
>
> I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
What offer?
Timberwoof
ed <ne...@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
> On May 15, 9:28 am, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com>
> wrote:
> <snip>
> > How does Keynote avoid these problems?
>
> it doesn't.
>
> the real problems:
> - the nasa example, is an example of dishonest people trying to hide
> problems. powerpoint or not, the problem is hiding the technical
> problem.
You mean the engineers trying to tell the managers there's a problem?
> -the gettysburg address example is an example of a BAD powerpoint
> presentation. you can have bad presentations with or without
> powerpoint. most people are bad presenters to begin with- powerpoint
> doesn't change that.
It's Edward Tufte's point that PowerPoint makes it worse by promising to
be a substitute for being a good presenter.
> - the ibm example is an example of someone trying to kiss ass with all
> the right buzz words and no substance. surely you've seen that
> outside of powerpoint briefings (and let's face it, someone who brings
> a presentation to something described as an 'interview' probably isn't
> the sharpest tack in the box).
The guy was not an employee candidate to a job interview but already a
manager presenting to a new division VP what he does. It's still an
interview. But you're right: and the new VP cut through the ass-kissing
by requiring people to use a word processor to write their reports.
> i highly recommend the book 'beyond bulletpoints' for anyone who has
> to do a lot of briefings.
Cool.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Edwin
> "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> stated in post
You're only fooling yourself.
Timberwoof
ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > http://norvig.com/Gettysburg/
>
> I've seen much worse. You don't have a really bad PowerPoint presentation
> until you have three paragraphs of 11 pt. text on a slide. And music.
>
> Show people this page:
> http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2005/11/the_zen_estheti.html
>
> If they get it, their presentations will probably start improving. If they
> tell you you're an idiot, they're probably hopeless.
Thank you. That's really cool. :-)
Timberwoof
jerryeveretts <ifre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oh, like the guy who created a spreadsheet in Office 2007 and sent it
> > around the office, only nobody else can open it because they're still
> > using some previous version?
>
> Office 2007 will save so that any version of Excel can open it... only
> a tool wouldn't know what his coworkers are using...
The guy was a tool.
> was that you? You
> can admit it, we are all friends here.
You're a tool, too.
Snit
The one quoted above:
If you know of any time I have not done so I welcome
you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the start
of this year.
I offer that to you and to Sandman... and request that you two let me
reciprocate. We shall then be able to see who really does admit to their
errors.
I suspect both of you will run.
none
> > Windows has no ability to handle cinema level presentations.
>
> Huh? are you making shit up again?
oops, PowerPoint doesn't have the ability, Keynote does. Windows "can"
if you have a lot of time and money on your hands.
jerryeveretts
Im really not debating that keynote is a great product, perhaps a
thousand times better than PowerPoint, I really don't know. My point
was, if you have to make a presentation to distribute, as the OP did,
better not do it in Keynote. Since we have already determined that it
doesn't translate to PP very well. And quite frankly , on an unknown
audience there is a 95% chance PER USER, that they will be Windows
users.
none
> > oops, PowerPoint doesn't have the ability, Keynote does. Windows "can"
> > if you have a lot of time and money on your hands.
>
> Im really not debating that keynote is a great product, perhaps a
> thousand times better than PowerPoint, I really don't know. My point
> was, if you have to make a presentation to distribute, as the OP did,
> better not do it in Keynote. Since we have already determined that it
> doesn't translate to PP very well. And quite frankly , on an unknown
> audience there is a 95% chance PER USER, that they will be Windows
> users.
yes, i generally agree, but the purpose of powerpoint and others is to
"give presentations"... not hand it out as a file. no professional would
do that since there is a myriad of ways that are more effective and have
more impact on the intended audience. using flash, the web, movie, video
podcast, pdf, or a playable dvd comes to mind. handing out a powerpoint
preso makes no sense. or i guess it does if you are limited to windows
only equipment.
Timberwoof
jerryeveretts <ifre...@gmail.com> wrote:
Who uses PowerPoint as a distribution mechanism? PowerPoint discourages
actual content. I'd prefer Word.
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see
>>>>> more of that in CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments
>>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
>>>
>>> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this
>>> case you did the same. If you know of any time I have not done so
>>> I welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the start
>>> of this year.
>>
>> What about the times you make a mistake but refuse to admit it?
Well?
> > Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
> >
> I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> Please go on record on this - Do you or do you not think pointing out
> >>> that someone made an obvious remark is an insult?
> >>
> >> Noting that someone made an obvious remark is not sufficient for the
> >> comment
> >> to be an insult. *Your* comments, on the other hand, clearly are
> >> insults...
> >> of the grade school variety. :)
> >
> > So, when I point out that someone makes an obvious remark, it's an
> > insult, but it wouldn't be when you do it, for example?
>
> Incorrect.
Well, pending further explanation from you, which you left out of your
reply, I can't see it any other way.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > I have never called comments where you defended me baiting me.
>
> You are lying:
I never lie
<snip Snits lies>
> Note below where you try to claim it is "baiting" to defend your frustration
> by saying if you were using the beta in a reasonable way (to learn the new
> program) or would make sense for you to not like the pause in access. You
> whine that I implied you were learning CS3... which I noted I *did* state
> and asked you for a correction. If you were not working on even learning
> the new program you were whining you had no access to then I stand
> corrected.
You baited me with the implication that I was "learning" CS3. I called
you on it, and you tried to backpedal.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > All of that was pointed out to you when it occurred. You're not
> > fooling anybody but yourself.
> >
> Your lack of a single example is noted.
>
> I extended the offer to Sandman ... I bet he is equally incapable of
> pointing to examples.
What about all the hundreds of examples already pointed out to you and
you have ignored and refused to admit, such as when you claimed I was
baiting you when I called someone evasive?
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
If you know of any time I have not [admitted to a mistake] I
welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the
start of this year.
I offer that to you and to Edwin and to Carroll... and request that you
three let me reciprocate and point out your statements that are clearly
contrary to reality - comments you have not rescinded. We shall then be
able to see who really does admit to their errors.
I suspect all of you will continue to run. All of you know you are liars...
where as I am open to having my comments pointed out - while there may be
some nits here and there, in the end my comments are consistently honest and
honorable. I happily put my word against the lot of you... and you all run.
Quite telling.
Snit
From you:
For the record, I called Edwin "Snit Jr" because I felt he
was being evasive
Clearly an insult, unless you want to claim this is your new way of
complimenting people (or otherwise innocuous). I noted in my response to
you:
After all these posts you finally admit that you did, of
course, mean your use of my name in the post to Edwin as an
insult... and then, perhaps to push irony to its limit, you
say the insult was to show how you think *I* am evasive.
LOL! How long did it take to drag this admission that you
were indeed spewing insults into CSMA?
Maybe you should have called him Sandman Jr. - you are
clearly a very, very evasive person, to the point of denying
that what you have snipped even existed.
And you went out of your way to prove me right... you pretended that did not
exist!
--
€ If A = B then B = A (known as the "symmetric property of equality")
€ Incest and sex are not identical (only a pervert would disagree)
€ One can be actually guilty of a crime but neither tried nor convicted
Sandman
This wasn't a presentation ordered to be distributed, so obviously I
made it in the tool best suited for good looking presentations.
It was a presentation made to local TV broadcasters, a local magazine
and our local citynet about streaming DVD-quality video in our citynet
to users. It was a presentation about the idea, the components, the
technology and the vision. It was never meant to distribute The VP
liked it so much that he later wanted to use it personally for other
meetings internally.
In short, had I made the presentation in a lesser program, he probably
would not have wanted it to show it internally. He liked the visuals
that captivates the audience to a stronger degree than other solutions.
That's what I like about Keynote as well.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
<timberwoof.spam-77...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Timberwoof <timberw...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
I dont' know how and when this got derailed. Keynote/PP is for making
presentations. If you send such a file to another person, it's pretty
likely because that person wants to make the same presentation you
did, but for another audience. Not for reading up on the issue or
something like that.
Sharing presentations with associates isn't uncommon at all, I just
didn't expect this one to be one of them.
Not that I would have made it in PowerPoint would I had known it.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
I agree it is likely you cannot see things any other way...
The facts, however, stay the same:
* merely noting that someone has made an obvious remark need not be
an insult.
* Your insult of calling someone "Mr Obvious, son of Duh" is a
juvenile act and reasonably called a "grade school insult".
I can live with you being ignorant on this issue - it is not as though you
show any appreciation when I teach you other things, such as why alt-text of
"space" is detrimental or how to validate your CSS. Maybe if you had shown
some level of appreciation - or even just stop lashing out when I help
educate you - I would be more willing to assist you here. Heck, even
offering an apology now, well after the fact, would show you are at least
trying to gain some level of respectability.
Snit
> In article <C26F709C.81590%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>> I have never called comments where you defended me baiting me.
>>
>> You are lying:
>
> I never lie
>
> <snip Snits lies>
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7133acedbdfbcaba>
Still, if Sandman is right in the middle of some lessons on
how to use the programs, or something like that, I can see
where it would be frustrating for him.
Is that comment, in your view, "baiting"? If so, why?
>> Note below where you try to claim it is "baiting" to defend your frustration
>> by saying if you were using the beta in a reasonable way (to learn the new
>> program) or would make sense for you to not like the pause in access. You
>> whine that I implied you were learning CS3... which I noted I *did* state
>> and asked you for a correction. If you were not working on even learning
>> the new program you were whining you had no access to then I stand
>> corrected.
>
> You baited me with the implication that I was "learning" CS3. I called
> you on it, and you tried to backpedal.
1) Why would it be an insult to say you were learning CS3? If you use the
program professionally, as I do, then one would think you would want to
learn it!
2) I suggested that maybe you were offended I made that suggestion... and
you ran from the question. You still have not, as far as I know, stated if
you are working on learning the program.
--
€ A partial subset is not synonymous with the whole
€ A person's actions speak more about him than what others say
€ Apple doesn't provide as many options as the rest of the PC industry
Snit
And with that file you would, presumably, have noted. The part the audience
sees is generally only a small part of the prep work that goes into a well
done presentation. Frankly notes are the "meat" of the presentation - and
frankly neither program handles that particularly well.
>
> Sharing presentations with associates isn't uncommon at all, I just
> didn't expect this one to be one of them.
>
> Not that I would have made it in PowerPoint would I had known it.
Not if you wanted your presentation to look at professional as possible...
at least likely not, depending on the needs in the visual part of the
presentation.
--
€ OS X is partially based on BSD (esp. FreeBSD)
€ OS X users are at far less risk of malware then are XP users
€ Photoshop is an image editing application
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-834CC0.08...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 11:40 PM:
>
> > In article <C26F712B.81599%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>>>> Thanks, Edwin, for showing honor and honesty. I hope to see
> >>>>>> more of that in CSMA. Sincerely, I appreciate your comments
> >>>>>> here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now that I have shown you by example, you can try to do the same.
> >>>>
> >>>> When I make mistakes I am happy to admit to them... and in this
> >>>> case you did the same. If you know of any time I have not done so
> >>>> I welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the start
> >>>> of this year.
> >>>
> >>> What about the times you make a mistake but refuse to admit it?
> >
> > Well?
Well? I recently pointed out several you have yet to admit to.
> >>> Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
> >>>
> >> I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
>
> If you know of any time I have not [admitted to a mistake] I
> welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the
> start of this year.
>
> I offer that to you and to Edwin and to Carroll... and request that you
> three let me reciprocate and point out your statements that are clearly
> contrary to reality - comments you have not rescinded. We shall then be
> able to see who really does admit to their errors.
>
> I suspect all of you will continue to run. All of you know you are liars...
> where as I am open to having my comments pointed out - while there may be
> some nits here and there, in the end my comments are consistently honest and
> honorable. I happily put my word against the lot of you... and you all run.
> Quite telling.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-45A763.08...@News.Individual.NET on 5/15/07 11:44 PM:
>
> > In article <C26F74B9.815A4%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> All of that was pointed out to you when it occurred. You're not
> >>> fooling anybody but yourself.
> >>>
> >> Your lack of a single example is noted.
> >>
> >> I extended the offer to Sandman ... I bet he is equally incapable of
> >> pointing to examples.
> >
> > What about all the hundreds of examples already pointed out to you and
> > you have ignored and refused to admit, such as when you claimed I was
> > baiting you when I called someone evasive?
Well? What about them? Will you admit to your mistake?
> From you:
>
> For the record, I called Edwin "Snit Jr" because I felt he
> was being evasive
>
> Clearly an insult, unless you want to claim this is your new way of
> complimenting people (or otherwise innocuous). I noted in my response to
> you:
>
> After all these posts you finally admit that you did, of
> course, mean your use of my name in the post to Edwin as an
> insult... and then, perhaps to push irony to its limit, you
> say the insult was to show how you think *I* am evasive.
> LOL! How long did it take to drag this admission that you
> were indeed spewing insults into CSMA?
>
> Maybe you should have called him Sandman Jr. - you are
> clearly a very, very evasive person, to the point of denying
> that what you have snipped even existed.
>
> And you went out of your way to prove me right... you pretended that did not
> exist!
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7133acedbdfbcaba>
>
> Still, if Sandman is right in the middle of some lessons on
> how to use the programs, or something like that, I can see
> where it would be frustrating for him.
>
> Is that comment, in your view, "baiting"? If so, why?
Is being called evasive, in your view, "insulting"? If so, why?
I have already told you why you were baiting me. Why are you ignoring
that and not admitting to your mistake?
> >> Note below where you try to claim it is "baiting" to defend your
> >> frustration
> >> by saying if you were using the beta in a reasonable way (to learn the new
> >> program) or would make sense for you to not like the pause in access. You
> >> whine that I implied you were learning CS3... which I noted I *did* state
> >> and asked you for a correction. If you were not working on even learning
> >> the new program you were whining you had no access to then I stand
> >> corrected.
> >
> > You baited me with the implication that I was "learning" CS3. I called
> > you on it, and you tried to backpedal.
>
> 1) Why would it be an insult to say you were learning CS3?
Who said it was an insult? Why would it be an insult to say you are
evasive?
> If you use the program professionally, as I do, then one would think
> you would want to learn it!
God knows you need it.
> 2) I suggested that maybe you were offended I made that suggestion... and
> you ran from the question.
I ignored your baiting, yes.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
>>> Well?
>
> Well? I recently pointed out several you have yet to admit to.
>
>>>>> Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
>>>>>
>>>> I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
>>
>> If you know of any time I have not [admitted to a mistake] I
>> welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the
>> start of this year.
>>
>> I offer that to you and to Edwin and to Carroll... and request that you
>> three let me reciprocate and point out your statements that are clearly
>> contrary to reality - comments you have not rescinded. We shall then be
>> able to see who really does admit to their errors.
>>
>> I suspect all of you will continue to run. All of you know you are liars...
>> where as I am open to having my comments pointed out - while there may be
>> some nits here and there, in the end my comments are consistently honest and
>> honorable. I happily put my word against the lot of you... and you all run.
>> Quite telling.
You claim, above, you have pointed out mistakes of mine I have not admitted
to. Please point to them or quote them. Shall I do the same for you?
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> stated in post
> mr-56E1A6.09...@News.Individual.NET on 5/16/07 12:27 AM:
>
> >>> Well?
> >
> > Well? I recently pointed out several you have yet to admit to.
> >
> >>>>> Ok, so maybe they're not mistakes, but willful lies?
> >>>>>
> >>>> I open the offer I made to Edwin to you... will you reciprocate?
> >>
> >> If you know of any time I have not [admitted to a mistake] I
> >> welcome you pointing it out - heck any time from, say, the
> >> start of this year.
> >>
> >> I offer that to you and to Edwin and to Carroll... and request that you
> >> three let me reciprocate and point out your statements that are clearly
> >> contrary to reality - comments you have not rescinded. We shall then be
> >> able to see who really does admit to their errors.
> >>
> >> I suspect all of you will continue to run. All of you know you are
> >> liars...
> >> where as I am open to having my comments pointed out - while there may be
> >> some nits here and there, in the end my comments are consistently honest
> >> and
> >> honorable. I happily put my word against the lot of you... and you all
> >> run.
> >> Quite telling.
>
> You claim, above, you have pointed out mistakes of mine I have not admitted
> to. Please point to them or quote them.
Why do you keep ignoring them? I am *CURRENTLY* talking about one of
them in one of our threads, Michael.
--
Sandman[.net]
Snit
> In article <C26FFDF8.816B8%CS...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7133acedbdfbcaba>
>>
>> Still, if Sandman is right in the middle of some lessons on
>> how to use the programs, or something like that, I can see
>> where it would be frustrating for him.
>>
>> Is that comment, in your view, "baiting"? If so, why?
>
> Is being called evasive, in your view, "insulting"? If so, why?
To lie about me is insulting.
>
> I have already told you why you were baiting me. Why are you ignoring
> that and not admitting to your mistake?
Please post a link or a quote.
>>>> Note below where you try to claim it is "baiting" to defend your
>>>> frustration
>>>> by saying if you were using the beta in a reasonable way (to learn the new
>>>> program) or would make sense for you to not like the pause in access. You
>>>> whine that I implied you were learning CS3... which I noted I *did* state
>>>> and asked you for a correction. If you were not working on even learning
>>>> the new program you were whining you had no access to then I stand
>>>> corrected.
>>>
>>> You baited me with the implication that I was "learning" CS3. I called
>>> you on it, and you tried to backpedal.
>>
>> 1) Why would it be an insult to say you were learning CS3?
>
> Who said it was an insult? Why would it be an insult to say you are
> evasive?
>
>> If you use the program professionally, as I do, then one would think
>> you would want to learn it!
>
> God knows you need it.
>
>> 2) I suggested that maybe you were offended I made that suggestion... and
>> you ran from the question.
>
> I ignored your baiting, yes.
You evaded my questions. Please answer them (I have slightly reworded them
to accommodate your stated concerns):
1)
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7133acedbdfbcaba>
Still, if Sandman is right in the middle of some lessons on
how to use the programs, or something like that, I can see
where it would be frustrating for him.
Is that comment, in your view, "baiting"? If so, why?
2)
Why would it be "baiting" to say you were learning CS3? If you use the
program professionally, as I do, then one would think you would want to
learn it! For me, "baiting" implies some form of insult, not just a
question to evoke a response... maybe you see any form of evoking a response
as "baiting"?
3)
I suggested that maybe you were offended I made that suggestion... and you
ran from the question. You have never stated if you are working on learning
Photoshop CS3. Will you answer now - are you?
I am guessing you will continue to evade... it is just what you do.
--
€ Different viruses are still different even if in the same "family"
€ Dreamweaver and GoLive are professional web development applications
€ Dreamweaver, being the #1 pro web design tool, is used by many pros
Snit
I think at this point it is best just to realize we disagree: I believe your
use of the term "Snit Jr." was clearly meant to be a baiting insult to me
and to Edwin, knowing that neither of us prefer to be seen as the how we see
the other - and I do not believe your explanation that you were merely
dishonestly calling me "evasive" when I am one of the most open people in
CSMA helps your case much. I accept you disagree... OK?
Snit
Which one? Why are you so damned evasive... well, other than that you know
you have no leg to stand on.
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> I think at this point it is best just to realize we disagree: I believe your
> use of the term "Snit Jr." was clearly meant to be a baiting insult to me
> and to Edwin, knowing that neither of us prefer to be seen as the how we see
> the other - and I do not believe your explanation that you were merely
> dishonestly calling me "evasive" when I am one of the most open people in
> CSMA helps your case much. I accept you disagree... OK?
So you admit that I did not use it to insult you, then? Remember, I am
the authority on what my motives are. You just don't *agree*.
At least you're not trying to be my spokesperson any more.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Snit <CS...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > Is being called evasive, in your view, "insulting"? If so, why?
>
> To lie about me is insulting.
To observe that you are being evasive could be a mistake, but not a
lie. I think that you are evasive. You may or may not agree. But by
saying that I lie about what I think means that you are trying to be
my spokesperson, and thus lying about me.
> > I have already told you why you were baiting me. Why are you ignoring
> > that and not admitting to your mistake?
>
> Please post a link or a quote.
For what reason? You've ignored it at least three times.
> >> 2) I suggested that maybe you were offended I made that suggestion... and
> >> you ran from the question.
> >
> > I ignored your baiting, yes.
>
> You evaded my questions. Please answer them
I will answer your question when you agree to sign a deal that will
end the BS. Unless I know that you won't use my answer to spew your
usual BS, I will not indulge you. If you sign the deal, I will treat
your honest questions with the respect they deserve.
--
Sandman[.net]