Take the Apple vs. Dell challenge...
greg...@gmail.com
Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to the
Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to dell.com and
try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna happen.
In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind up
spending much, much more. Ironically I think it's Windows users that
are now missing out.
It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
me...
Bob B.
greg...@gmail.com wrote:
You are just fooling yourself if you think that in general, Macs are cheaper
than PC.
If you are going to buy a computer, why would you make a list of all the
features a particular Mac has, then try to match them exactly in the PC world?
That is completely artificial. You would instead perhaps make a list of the
features you want, then find a machine that has those features, more or less.
And for most people, those features will be something pretty generic - a couple
of USB 2.0 ports, a DVD drive, etc. Dell is almost always going to be cheaper
than Apple when you approach it that way.
Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC world - OS X for
instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just doing hardware comparisons,
PCs will almost always win.
Bob B.
Steve Mackay
ROFLMAO! Another delusional person.
Edwin
greg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to
the
> Mac in terms of hardware and software.
Here's the point where Maccies "stack the deck" in the Macs favor,
during one of their so-called "comparisons."
They use the Mac as a baseline, and demand the PC be outfitted with
everything a Mac comes with. Don't have a firewire camera? So what,
add a firewire card to the PC, we want a "fair comparision."
But they don't apply the same standard of "reasoning" to the Mac. They
see no reason to add things to the Mac that are standard for the PC,
but don't come with the Mac. Things like a multibutton mouse, a floppy
drive, more system RAM, and more video RAM, more motherboard slots,
more drive bays, more USB ports, and legacy support. When I buy a PC,
I can use my old parallel port printer, or my joystick that has a game
port connector. With the Mac, it's time to buy adapters that Maccies
don't include in these price comparisons.
That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also the loads
of cheap or free software...
> Now head over to dell.com and
> try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com, head
over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a Mac
instead of building a PC.
> Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
happen.
> In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind
up
> spending much, much more.
With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware specs of an
iMac for less money than an iMac.
> Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> are now missing out.
At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows in...
> It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
> me...
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth that
PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> greg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to
> the
> > Mac in terms of hardware and software.
>
> Here's the point where Maccies "stack the deck" in the Macs favor,
> during one of their so-called "comparisons."
So much for your resolution. It's about what we've come to expect of
you, frankly.
>
> They use the Mac as a baseline, and demand the PC be outfitted with
> everything a Mac comes with. Don't have a firewire camera? So what,
> add a firewire card to the PC, we want a "fair comparision."
Is firewire only useful for cameras? Hmmmmm...
>
> But they don't apply the same standard of "reasoning" to the Mac. They
> see no reason to add things to the Mac that are standard for the PC,
> but don't come with the Mac. Things like a multibutton mouse, a floppy
> drive, more system RAM, and more video RAM, more motherboard slots,
> more drive bays, more USB ports, and legacy support. When I buy a PC,
> I can use my old parallel port printer, or my joystick that has a game
> port connector. With the Mac, it's time to buy adapters that Maccies
> don't include in these price comparisons.
Go ahead and show us, Edwin. Show us how that works out.
>
> That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also the loads
> of cheap or free software...
>
> > Now head over to dell.com and
> > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
>
> After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com, head
> over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a Mac
> instead of building a PC.
And do those companies compare in terms of service and support?
>
> > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
> happen.
> > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind
> up
> > spending much, much more.
>
> With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware specs of an
> iMac for less money than an iMac.
So show us.
>
> > Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > are now missing out.
>
> At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows in...
>
> > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
> > me...
> >
> > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
>
> Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth that
> PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
John
I see you have started off the year with your usual trolling.
Labrat
Sat 01 Jan 2005 01:28:50p:
> In article <1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> greg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
>> Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to
>> the Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to dell.com
>> and try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less.
>> .... Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
>> happen. In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell
>> you'll wind up spending much, much more. Ironically I think it's
>> Windows users that are now missing out.
>>
>> It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
>> me...
>>
>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
>
> You are just fooling yourself if you think that in general, Macs are
> cheaper than PC.
>
> If you are going to buy a computer, why would you make a list of all
> the features a particular Mac has, then try to match them exactly in
> the PC world? That is completely artificial. You would instead perhaps
> make a list of the features you want, then find a machine that has
> those features, more or less. And for most people, those features will
> be something pretty generic - a couple of USB 2.0 ports, a DVD drive,
> etc. Dell is almost always going to be cheaper than Apple when you
> approach it that way.
Dell may be cheaper, but for good cause.
Proprietary motherboard, like Mac
Built in useless graphics card, unlike Mac
Garbage for sound, unlike Mac
Near useless floppy drive, unlike Mac
Wanna make movies, be your own recording studio?
Comes with Mac. Big bucks to do the same with a PeeCee.
>
> Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC world -
> OS X for instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just doing
> hardware comparisons, PCs will almost always win.
>
> Bob B.
>
Macs come with a LOT of things that are all options in the PC world.
Failure is not an option ... it comes bundled with your M$ product!
Buy all the stuff to make your Dell work half as good as a Mac .... Screw
that, Buy the Mac!
--
Later......
Labrat...... |:^{)
A recent convert to the flightless bird.
Jim Lee Jr.
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
Johnny, don't tell me you're jealous already. After all, the first day
of the new year isn't over yet, at least in the US.
C Lund
> Here's the point where Maccies "stack the deck" in the Macs favor,
> during one of their so-called "comparisons."
I see your New Year's resolution lasted about a day.
But that's about as much as your word is worth.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Edwin
Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <1104623817....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > greg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in
to
> > the
> > > Mac in terms of hardware and software.
> >
> > Here's the point where Maccies "stack the deck" in the Macs favor,
> > during one of their so-called "comparisons."
>
> So much for your resolution. It's about what we've come to expect of
> you, frankly.
You start with a personal attack, so it's easy to tell what I've
written is nothing you can dismiss with facts.
> >
> > They use the Mac as a baseline, and demand the PC be outfitted with
> > everything a Mac comes with. Don't have a firewire camera? So
what,
> > add a firewire card to the PC, we want a "fair comparision."
>
> Is firewire only useful for cameras? Hmmmmm...
Is a firewire port usefl to someone without firewire devices? Hmmmm...
> >
> > But they don't apply the same standard of "reasoning" to the Mac.
They
> > see no reason to add things to the Mac that are standard for the
PC,
> > but don't come with the Mac. Things like a multibutton mouse, a
floppy
> > drive, more system RAM, and more video RAM, more motherboard slots,
> > more drive bays, more USB ports, and legacy support. When I buy a
PC,
> > I can use my old parallel port printer, or my joystick that has a
game
> > port connector. With the Mac, it's time to buy adapters that
Maccies
> > don't include in these price comparisons.
>
> Go ahead and show us, Edwin. Show us how that works out.
Again? Why should I show you yet again, when all the other times you
were shown failed to teach you anything?
> >
> > That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also the
loads
> > of cheap or free software...
> >
> > > Now head over to dell.com and
> > > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less.
....
> >
> > After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com, head
> > over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a Mac
> > instead of building a PC.
>
> And do those companies compare in terms of service and support?
Why don't you drag your sorry arse over to the sites I referenced and
find out for yourself?
> > > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
> > happen.
> > > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll
wind
> > up
> > > spending much, much more.
> >
> > With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware specs of
an
> > iMac for less money than an iMac.
>
> So show us.
Can't follow links, eh?
> >
> > > Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > > are now missing out.
> >
> > At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows
in...
> >
> > > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just
from
> > > me...
> > >
> > > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> >
> > Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth
that
> > PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
Note: no response.
John Slade
<greg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
This guy has got it right well at least for prices back then. P4 Dells
are a lot cheaper. But I still wouldn't buy a dell. Dude, Don't buy a Dell.
Buy a non proprietary system. That's how you save money and get more power.
If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one. I
wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still have one.
A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a move from 32-bit to
64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy. This is the best time
for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone. Send in the clones!
John
ZnU
"Bob B." <bo...@sphinx.com> wrote:
> In article <1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> greg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to
> > the Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to
> > dell.com and try to build an equivilent machine for the same price
> > or less. .... Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you
> > what's gonna happen. In order to get everything you get with a Mac
> > in a Dell you'll wind up spending much, much more. Ironically I
> > think it's Windows users that are now missing out.
> >
> > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just
> > from me...
> >
> > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
>
> You are just fooling yourself if you think that in general, Macs are
> cheaper than PC.
>
> If you are going to buy a computer, why would you make a list of all
> the features a particular Mac has, then try to match them exactly in
> the PC world? That is completely artificial. You would instead
> perhaps make a list of the features you want, then find a machine
> that has those features, more or less. And for most people, those
> features will be something pretty generic - a couple of USB 2.0
> ports, a DVD drive, etc. Dell is almost always going to be cheaper
> than Apple when you approach it that way.
Yeah, that's great. But in most industries, people don't make such
lists, find the cheapest product which matches their criteria, and then
go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive higher-end products
are.
The reason we get that here, of course, is that our resident Wintrolls
don't actually recognize that the Macs they're comparing to are
higher-end products, because they essentially discount the relevance of
any criterion except processing speed. Which is especially idiotic in
the consumer market, where processing speed essentially doesn't matter
anymore.
> Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC world
> - OS X for instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just doing
> hardware comparisons, PCs will almost always win.
--
Is Bush wearing a LifeVest defibrillator?
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/136872/
Edwin
That is indeed what people in "most industries" do.
> and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
higher-end > products are.
To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
"higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
> The reason we get that here, of course, is that our resident
Wintrolls
> don't actually recognize that the Macs they're comparing to are
> higher-end products, because they essentially discount the relevance
of
> any criterion except processing speed. Which is especially idiotic in
> the consumer market, where processing speed essentially doesn't
matter
> anymore.
I see you're starting the New Year out by telling a pack of lies. The
criterion used by PC advocates are far more than merely processor
speed, as you well know. They are, in addtion to a faster processor,
more system RAM, more VRAM, a better graphics card, more types of
graphics cards, more drive bays, more PCI slots, more form factors,
legacy support, and more software. There is also a greater range of PC
types, starting from build-your-own and progressing up to high-powered
workstations for thousands of dollars.
You'd think a guy like ZnU who claimed to be setting up a lab of Linux
PCs would know the above, especially after he's been told the above so
many times, for so many years, in CSMA...
> > Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC
world
> > - OS X for instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just
doing
> > hardware comparisons, PCs will almost always win.
--
"I will admit that I occasionally defend an Apple position I don't
really agree with. Advocacy is a game that I enjoy playing."
-- ZnU, March 17,2001
Sandman
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
> higher-end > products are.
>
> To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
> "higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to "overpaid".
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
You know you're lying, as you've often seen me and those like me
compare what one gets for the money, not automatically call the higher
price "overpaid." You've also seen me defend some of Apple's
higher-end offerings.
Sandman
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
I've also seen you pull lies like the one above where you claim ZnU equates
high price to high quality.
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
George Graves
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> <greg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to the
> > Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to dell.com and
> > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
> > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna happen.
> > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind up
> > spending much, much more. Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > are now missing out.
> >
> > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
> > me...
> >
> > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> >
>
> This guy has got it right well at least for prices back then. P4 Dells
> are a lot cheaper. But I still wouldn't buy a dell. Dude, Don't buy a Dell.
> Buy a non proprietary system.
Of course, this advice comes from a troll who builds non-proprietary PC
systems for a living, so you can take this recommendation pretty much
with the same grain of salt that you would any other commercial
advertisement. And since this is Slade, I'd look at it with an even MORE
jaundiced eye.
> That's how you save money and get more power.
And how this asshole makes more money.
> If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one. I
> wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still have one.
> A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a move from 32-bit to
> 64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy. This is the best time
> for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone. Send in the clones!
Apple won't allow it. Galls you, doesn't it, asshole?
>
> John
--
George Graves
------------------
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French
one behind me." Gen. G.S. Patton
Bob B.
wrote:
Yeah, that's great, except the original post was by a Mac advocate claiming that
Macs are cheaper than PCs, not the other way around.
>
> The reason we get that here, of course, is that our resident Wintrolls
> don't actually recognize that the Macs they're comparing to are
> higher-end products, because they essentially discount the relevance of
> any criterion except processing speed. Which is especially idiotic in
> the consumer market, where processing speed essentially doesn't matter
> anymore.
You should take this up with the original poster who claimed that "It's a myth
that Macs are more expensive", since you evidently don't agree with him.
>
> > Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC world
> > - OS X for instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just doing
> > hardware comparisons, PCs will almost always win.
Bob B.
Bob B.
Labrat <idon...@idontcare.org> wrote:
Except the original poster was talking about price - what is cheaper, not what
is better. I basically agree with you - pay more to get a better computer. And
usually the Mac will cost more than the Dell.
Bob B.
Sandman
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>>> and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
>>>>>> higher-end > products are.
>>>>>
>>>>> To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
>>>>> "higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
>>>>
>>>> To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
>>>> "overpaid".
>>>
>>> You know you're lying, as you've often seen me and those like me
>>> compare what one gets for the money, not automatically call the
>>> higher price "overpaid." You've also seen me defend some of
>>> Apple's higher-end offerings.
>>
>> I've also seen you pull lies like the one above where you claim ZnU
>> equates high price to high quality.
>
> That's not a lie.
Incorrect.
--
Sandman[.net]
Jim Polaski
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> <greg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to the
> > Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to dell.com and
> > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
> > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna happen.
> > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind up
> > spending much, much more. Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > are now missing out.
> >
> > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
> > me...
> >
> > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> >
>
> This guy has got it right well at least for prices back then. P4 Dells
> are a lot cheaper. But I still wouldn't buy a dell. Dude, Don't buy a Dell.
> Buy a non proprietary system.
And then put a proprietary OS on it?
> That's how you save money and get more power.
Unless you're a gamer, why? Todays boxes have more than enough power for
any average user.
> If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
>I wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still
>have one. A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a move
>from 32-bit to 64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy.
>This is the best time for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone. Send
>in the clones!
>
> John
--
Regards,
JP
"The measure of a man is what he will do
knowing he will get nothing in return"
Edwin
Or any of the open PC operating systems.
> > That's how you save money and get more power.
>
> Unless you're a gamer, why? Todays boxes have more than enough power
for
> any average user.
As long as you severely limit what it means to be an "average user."
> > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
>
> If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
Why should he, when he can have a new PC for the price of a used or
refurbished Mac?
Jim Polaski
Yeah, "good enough" is the byword in todays industries, but we also see
that biting back. They end up servicing, fixing, upgrading and
maintaining and that's not at no cost.
Remember what Ben Franklin said, "Long after the victory of low price is
the bitter taste of poor quality." How did he get it so right so long
ago?
>
> > and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
> higher-end > products are.
>
> To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
> "higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
>
> > The reason we get that here, of course, is that our resident
> Wintrolls
> > don't actually recognize that the Macs they're comparing to are
> > higher-end products, because they essentially discount the relevance
> of
> > any criterion except processing speed. Which is especially idiotic in
>
> > the consumer market, where processing speed essentially doesn't
> matter
> > anymore.
>
> I see you're starting the New Year out by telling a pack of lies. The
> criterion used by PC advocates are far more than merely processor
> speed, as you well know. They are, in addtion to a faster processor,
> more system RAM, more VRAM, a better graphics card, more types of
> graphics cards, more drive bays, more PCI slots, more form factors,
> legacy support, and more software. There is also a greater range of PC
> types, starting from build-your-own and progressing up to high-powered
> workstations for thousands of dollars.
more of your lost-eddie baloney. The average PC buyer in the consumer
buys a computer based on price first, speed second and what they have at
(work if that's even considered) and they buy the marketplace.
>
> You'd think a guy like ZnU who claimed to be setting up a lab of Linux
> PCs would know the above, especially after he's been told the above so
> many times, for so many years, in CSMA...
>
> > > Macs will have some things that you can't really get in the PC
> world
> > > - OS X for instance. That's why I use Macs. But if you are just
> doing
> > > hardware comparisons, PCs will almost always win.
>
> --
> "I will admit that I occasionally defend an Apple position I don't
> really agree with. Advocacy is a game that I enjoy playing."
> -- ZnU, March 17,2001
--
Jim Polaski
We've repeatedly seen how you compare what one gets for their money.
You go to the lowest price and think it's the best there is. Second, you
advocate building something yourself omitting the labor and other costs,
yet compare it to a branded box built by an OEM.
Yeah, you know how to compare alright.
Edwin
How did a self-employeed photographer come to fancy he knows anything
about industry, and how they choose their tools, and how their
computers run?
> Remember what Ben Franklin said, "Long after the victory of low price
is
> the bitter taste of poor quality." How did he get it so right so long
> ago?
Tell us about the poor quality, virus laden computer you offer to your
clients to use, Jim.
Shouting this at the top of your voice while you stamp your feet makes
it true?
Jim Polaski
"Bob B." <bo...@sphinx.com> wrote:
In today's marketplace, or should I say, digital marketplace, more and
more of the "mr. average" users have DV and digital still. As a point of
fact, digital cameras now outsell film still cameras. More folks buy a
DV camcorder today. More folks have music players. More folks are
beginning to want to integrate all these things.
Buy that low price PC and you end up upgrading the box to do what the
Mac just does seamlessly out of the box. Can mr average buy the upgrades
and get them installed and working? The better question is "do they feel
they can do the upgrades" or are they scared? When many, many users have
trouble maintaining a Win box to keep it up in todays insecure internet
are they going to feel comfortable opening up their box to add cards, or
other upgrades and expect that it will just work? Doubtful. Not that
it's that hard, they're just afraid....that mr. average user. They want
to box to just work when they turn it on.
Edwin
Lots of folks have been already doing that with PCs. That's why Sony
PCs were the first computers to support Firewire, and Toshiba Laptops
were the first computers with a built-in camera.
> Buy that low price PC and you end up upgrading the box to do what the
> Mac just does seamlessly out of the box.
No, the PC comes with nmore ability to handle multimedia than does the
Mac, as it comes with more RAM, mor VRAM, and a better video card, for
less than the price of a Mac.
> Can mr average buy the upgrades
> and get them installed and working?
YES!!! Unless you're talking about the average retard...
> The better question is "do they feel
> they can do the upgrades" or are they scared? When many, many users
have
> trouble maintaining a Win box to keep it up in todays insecure
internet
> are they going to feel comfortable opening up their box to add cards,
or
> other upgrades and expect that it will just work? Doubtful. Not that
> it's that hard, they're just afraid....that mr. average user.
That's the fantasy you've created in your mind about what the "average
user" is.
> They want
> to box to just work when they turn it on.
Then a PC is the right thing for them. Cheaper than a Mac, more
powerful, and it "just works" when you turn it on.
I notice that when the topic of speed and power come up, you switch to
the "average user" doing Web surfing, email, and word processing, to
negate the need for speed and power, but when price is the factor, all
of a sudden the average user is heavily involved in digital video
editing.
John Slade
"George Graves" <gmgra...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gmgravesnos-D0F3...@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...
If Macs had gone the route of he PC clones Macs would probably have a
bigger market share and would be in less danger of dying.
>
>
> > That's how you save money and get more power.
>
> And how this asshole makes more money.
And how Apple makes money as well. Apple buys OEM parts and assembles
Macs. I buy retail and OEM parts and build PCs. So I guess Jobs is an
asshole for doing the same thing. The only difference Apple is proprietary.
BTW. I was advocating nonproprietary PCs before I built and repaired them
for a living.
>
>
> > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one. I
> > wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still have
one.
> > A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a move from
32-bit to
> > 64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy. This is the best
time
> > for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone. Send in the clones!
>
> Apple won't allow it. Galls you, doesn't it, asshole?
Boy you seem really pissed about something. Was it that I got you to
admit Apple didn't have an innovation with Firewire and it came out for PCs
and Macs at the same time.
John
John Slade
"Jim Polaski" <jpol...@NOSpaMync.net> wrote in message
news:jpolaski-AAC026...@netnews.comcast.net...
> In article <MOQBd.6215$yV1...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
> "John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > <greg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1104606374.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in to
the
> > > Mac in terms of hardware and software. Now head over to dell.com and
> > > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
> > > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
happen.
> > > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll wind up
> > > spending much, much more. Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > > are now missing out.
> > >
> > > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just from
> > > me...
> > >
> > > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> > >
> >
> > This guy has got it right well at least for prices back then. P4
Dells
> > are a lot cheaper. But I still wouldn't buy a dell. Dude, Don't buy a
Dell.
> > Buy a non proprietary system.
>
> And then put a proprietary OS on it?
All software is proprietary except for Linux and they have some
proprietary distributions. Get a clue. You should know what you're talking
about before you make a fool of yourself. Tell us again who makes Mac HDs?
>
> > That's how you save money and get more power.
>
> Unless you're a gamer, why? Todays boxes have more than enough power for
> any average user.
Here we go again. Telling people to settle for less has become this guys
bread and butter since Macs aren't faster than PCs. If Apple came out with a
10GHZ iMac this dolt would be proclaiming how much faster Macs are.
>
> > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
>
> If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
I just got two free ones. One is a G3 the other is an older model.
John
John Slade
"ZnU" <z...@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:znu-0CFED5.1...@nntp.acecape.com...
Of course it doesn't now that Macs aren't as fast as PCs.
John
ZnU
"Bob B." <bo...@sphinx.com> wrote:
The claim advanced in the original post, at least as I read it, was not
that Macs are cheaper absolutely, but that they're cheaper for what you
get. They're not, in other words, overpriced, though they may be
overkill for people will certain needs.
[snip]
Jim Polaski
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > They want
> > to box to just work when they turn it on.
>
> Then a PC is the right thing for them. Cheaper than a Mac, more
> powerful, and it "just works" when you turn it on.
>
> I notice that when the topic of speed and power come up, you switch to
> the "average user" doing Web surfing, email, and word processing, to
> negate the need for speed and power, but when price is the factor, all
> of a sudden the average user is heavily involved in digital video
> editing.
That's because the average box today is fast enough for those needs. You
think the speed of a PC is an absolute measure of performance, but it's
not.
Jim Polaski
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Because I know folks in IT and have had lots of contact by virtue of the
advertising business to talk with folks about business, and how things
operate.
You flip burgers, so...
>
> > Remember what Ben Franklin said, "Long after the victory of low price
> is
> > the bitter taste of poor quality." How did he get it so right so long
>
> > ago?
>
> Tell us about the poor quality, virus laden computer you offer to your
> clients to use, Jim.
You're lying again eddie. When are you going to get off this horse
you've tried to build? Fake horses don't go far.
I wasn't SHOUTING. Are you having trouble with your capitals now? What's
next?
Jim Polaski
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
So you think Windows isn't proprietary?
What's a "Mac HD"? You mean to tell me you have to ask that question
after all the time you say you spend building PC's and what you claim to
know of Macs?
slade, this was one of your fabrications like your computers.
>
> >
> > > That's how you save money and get more power.
> >
> > Unless you're a gamer, why? Todays boxes have more than enough power for
> > any average user.
>
> Here we go again. Telling people to settle for less has become this guys
> bread and butter since Macs aren't faster than PCs. If Apple came out with a
> 10GHZ iMac this dolt would be proclaiming how much faster Macs are.
Oh, so every PC buyer should go for a top of the line, maxed out PC.
That sure would benefit your pocketbook.
OTOH, this represents a change from recommending the cheap PC. Now
what's better? I guess the windows guys are now having trouble deciding.
>
> >
> > > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
> >
> > If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
>
> I just got two free ones. One is a G3 the other is an older model.
And....
Jim Polaski
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
It runs Windows. OS X is far more elegant and secure.
ZnU
I've got Edwin killfiled, but I can't help noticing he hasn't stopped
playing his old snip-mangling games.
[snip]
Alan Baker
"John" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
> >> That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also the
> >> loads of cheap or free software...
> >>
> >>> Now head over to dell.com and
> >>> try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less. ....
> >>
> >> After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com, head
> >> over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a Mac
> >> instead of building a PC.
> >
> > And do those companies compare in terms of service and support?
> >
> >>
> >>> Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
> >>> happen. In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell
> >>> you'll wind up spending much, much more.
> >>
> >> With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware specs of
> >> an iMac for less money than an iMac.
> >
> > So show us.
> >
> >>
> >>> Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> >>> are now missing out.
> >>
> >> At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows in...
> >>
> >>> It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just
> >>> from me...
> >>>
> >>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> >>
> >> Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth that
> >> PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
>
>
>
> I see you have started off the year with your usual trolling.
How is it trolling to ask that someone prove what he claims is so easily
proven?
See if you can actually answer this question in a substantive manner
(ask your parents for help if you don't know what "substantive" means).
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article <1104623817....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > > greg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Head on over to apple.com and build yourself an iMac in the Apple
> > > > Store. Be sure to factor in ALL of the goodies that are built-in
> to
> > > the
> > > > Mac in terms of hardware and software.
> > >
> > > Here's the point where Maccies "stack the deck" in the Macs favor,
> > > during one of their so-called "comparisons."
> >
> > So much for your resolution. It's about what we've come to expect of
> > you, frankly.
>
> You start with a personal attack, so it's easy to tell what I've
> written is nothing you can dismiss with facts.
>
> > >
> > > They use the Mac as a baseline, and demand the PC be outfitted with
> > > everything a Mac comes with. Don't have a firewire camera? So
> what,
> > > add a firewire card to the PC, we want a "fair comparision."
> >
> > Is firewire only useful for cameras? Hmmmmm...
>
> Is a firewire port usefl to someone without firewire devices? Hmmmm...
Not the same thing. You implied that if you don't have a firewire camera
then you there's no other reason you'd need a firewire port.
>
> > >
> > > But they don't apply the same standard of "reasoning" to the Mac.
> They
> > > see no reason to add things to the Mac that are standard for the
> PC,
> > > but don't come with the Mac. Things like a multibutton mouse, a
> floppy
> > > drive, more system RAM, and more video RAM, more motherboard slots,
> > > more drive bays, more USB ports, and legacy support. When I buy a
> PC,
> > > I can use my old parallel port printer, or my joystick that has a
> game
> > > port connector. With the Mac, it's time to buy adapters that
> Maccies
> > > don't include in these price comparisons.
> >
> > Go ahead and show us, Edwin. Show us how that works out.
>
> Again? Why should I show you yet again, when all the other times you
> were shown failed to teach you anything?
I don't believe you can show what you claimed.
>
> > >
> > > That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also the
> loads
> > > of cheap or free software...
> > >
> > > > Now head over to dell.com and
> > > > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or less.
> ....
> > >
> > > After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com, head
> > > over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a Mac
> > > instead of building a PC.
> >
> > And do those companies compare in terms of service and support?
>
> Why don't you drag your sorry arse over to the sites I referenced and
> find out for yourself?
Why don't you answer the question?
>
> > > > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's gonna
> > > happen.
> > > > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell you'll
> wind
> > > up
> > > > spending much, much more.
> > >
> > > With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware specs of
> an
> > > iMac for less money than an iMac.
> >
> > So show us.
>
> Can't follow links, eh?
Sure can. You didn't provide any.
>
> > >
> > > > Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > > > are now missing out.
> > >
> > > At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows
> in...
> > >
> > > > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it just
> from
> > > > me...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> > >
> > > Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth
> that
> > > PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
>
> Note: no response.
None required. Linux started on PCs because they were well *understood*.
You can't build an OS without excellent knowledge of the internal
workings of the machine you plan to build it on.
Alan Baker
Tell us why Nikon dominated so much of the professional market for SLR
cameras for so very long.
Edwin
Tell us what that has to do with my question to Jim, let alone what
this thread is about.
Edwin
Good point. Besides saving money, he'll get lots of great cheap or
free Windows programs.
> OS X is far more elegant and secure.
Then the Windows PC you have to infect your clients' Windows PCs?
[snip]
Edwin
Hmmmm...
>
> Not the same thing.
Yes it is. You're only trying to obfuscate the point.
> You implied that if you don't have a firewire camera
> then you there's no other reason you'd need a firewire port.
No I didn't. I gave one example of a firewire device that's the one
that first comes to mind.
Reread above.
> >
> > > >
> > > > That's just the hardware they ignore on the PC. There's also
the
> > loads
> > > > of cheap or free software...
> > > >
> > > > > Now head over to dell.com and
> > > > > try to build an equivilent machine for the same price or
less.
> > ....
> > > >
> > > > After you've been to www.tigerdirect.com or www.compgeeks.com,
head
> > > > over to www.apple.com and see how much less you get buying a
Mac
> > > > instead of building a PC.
> > >
> > > And do those companies compare in terms of service and support?
> >
> > Why don't you drag your sorry arse over to the sites I referenced
and
> > find out for yourself?
>
> Why don't you answer the question?
Reread above.
>
> >
> > > > > Well if you're too lazy to do that let me tell you what's
gonna
> > > > happen.
> > > > > In order to get everything you get with a Mac in a Dell
you'll
> > wind
> > > > up
> > > > > spending much, much more.
> > > >
> > > > With Dell you'll wind up with a PC with twice the hardware
specs of
> > an
> > > > iMac for less money than an iMac.
> > >
> > > So show us.
> >
> > Can't follow links, eh?
>
> Sure can. You didn't provide any.
When something is prefexed with a "wwww." that designates a link. You
may want to make a note of that. Then reread this post slowly, with
the above in mind, to spot the links I gave you.
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Ironically I think it's Windows users that
> > > > > are now missing out.
> > > >
> > > > At least they have money left for a beer to drown their sorrows
> > in...
> > > >
> > > > > It's a myth that Macs are more expensive. But don't take it
just
> > from
> > > > > me...
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
> > > >
> > > > Sure, that's why Linux started on PCs, because it's just a myth
> > that
> > > > PCs are cheaper... ROTFLMAO!!!
> >
> > Note: no response.
>
> None required.
Sure it was, you just knew you would make a fool of yourself, by
responding about things you don't have a clue about.
Linux started on PCs because they were well *understood*.
Linux started on PCs because that's what the college students who
invented Linux could afford to have. If they had their way, they would
have used Unix workstations instead.
> You can't build an OS without excellent knowledge of the internal
> workings of the machine you plan to build it on.
I can't wait for you to explain how Linux and BSD got on Macs after it
started out on PCs.
ZnU
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Right on cue.
Edwin
"The average box" being a cheap PC.
> You
> think the speed of a PC is an absolute measure of performance, but
it's
> not.
No matter how much I mention system RAM, VRAM, slots, bays, video
cards, legacy support, etc., you always fall back to that accusation,
as if you're just a parrot.
Tim Smith
Jim Polaski <jpol...@NOSpaMync.net> wrote:
> In today's marketplace, or should I say, digital marketplace, more and
> more of the "mr. average" users have DV and digital still. As a point of
> fact, digital cameras now outsell film still cameras. More folks buy a
> DV camcorder today. More folks have music players. More folks are
> beginning to want to integrate all these things.
This raises an interesting question. Quite a few digital cameras
nowadays can take short movies, in addition to still pictures. Same
with many cell phones that include cameras. These movies are usually
NOT stored in DV. The cameras usually produce MPEG files.
Q: Why is Apple's handling of MPEG so crappy?
In particular, iMovie/iDVD cannot deal with muxed MPEG1 files, which is
what many of these cameras produce. Quicktime can play them, but, even
if you have Quicktime Pro and that for-pay MPEG thingy that Apple sells,
you can't convert a muxed MPEG1 into a format that iMovie can use. If
you try to export one from Quicktime Pro, it does the video fine, but
loses the audio. (Based on what I've found on forums, though, this may
not be consistent...some people seem to report that for some files, it
exports just the audio, not the video).
What's even stranger, from what I've found searching for information on
this, it appears that Quicktime up to Quicktime 4 or 5 could convert
these to DV for use in iMovie, but Apple took this out for 6 (or for 5,
if 4 was the last version that handled this).
MovieMaker2 on Windows works just fine with muxed MPEG1 files. ULead
Studio (which was bundled with some hardware I bought) not only handles
them fine, but can extract the audio and save as a WAV file. So, I can
take the files from my camera, use the PC to get the sound, bring that
over to the Mac, use Quicktime Pro to make a DV file of the video, and
then put the audio and video back together in iMovie. (This can be
simplified, I think...there do seem to be third party tools, some even
free, do convert these files to a form that Quicktime Pro or iMovie can
handle, so when I get around to getting one of those, I'll be able to
cut out the PC step...but it still sucks that Quicktime Pro can't deal
with these properly directly).
--
--Tim Smith
George Graves
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Lying piece of dung!
--
George Graves
------------------
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French
one behind me." Gen. G.S. Patton
C Lund
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> All software is proprietary except for Linux and they have some
> proprietary distributions. Get a clue. You should know what you're talking
> about before you make a fool of yourself. Tell us again who makes Mac HDs?
Mac HDs are made by the same people who make PC HDs. That's who makes
Mac HDs.
For that matter, is there any difference between Mac HDs and PC HDs at
all?
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Mayor of R'lyeh
chose to bless us with the following wisdom:
>In article <1104688746.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>> Sandman wrote:
>> > In article <1104688245.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
>> > > higher-end > products are.
>> > >
>> > > To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
>> > > "higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
>> >
>> > To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates
>> > to "overpaid".
>>
>> You know you're lying, as you've often seen me and those like me
>> compare what one gets for the money, not automatically call the higher
>> price "overpaid." You've also seen me defend some of Apple's
>> higher-end offerings.
>
>We've repeatedly seen how you compare what one gets for their money.
>You go to the lowest price and think it's the best there is.
Its all about the value, Jim. Why should I pay more for a machine that
fits the specs I want? Its not just about the lowest price. Its about
the lowest price that fits the bill.
> Second, you
>advocate building something yourself omitting the labor and other costs,
>yet compare it to a branded box built by an OEM.
STILL pushing the 'Phantom Cost' theorem?
>
>Yeah, you know how to compare alright.
Well he's got sense enough not to charge himself money for labor he
did himself for himself. That puts him one up on you.
--
"...I doubt that I would ever buy a Mac. I've seen
what owning one can do to people. And I don't want
any part of that."
Rich Brooks
columnist for the
Southwest Florida
Herald-Tribune
Mayor of R'lyeh
bless us with the following wisdom:
>
>Jim Polaski wrote:
>> In article <MOQBd.6215$yV1...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
>> And then put a proprietary OS on it?
>
>Or any of the open PC operating systems.
>
>> > That's how you save money and get more power.
>>
>> Unless you're a gamer, why? Todays boxes have more than enough power
>for
>> any average user.
>
>As long as you severely limit what it means to be an "average user."
I have this image of Jim in a pith helmet kneeling behind a piece of
cardboard that he's painted to resemble a pile of boxes holding up a
microphone trying to record the conversation between a computer buyer
and the salesman at his local Best Buy. He probably takes pictures
too. He's doing this to gather information on 'the average user'.
Its pretty hilarious. I wonder if he ever goes to CompUSA and runs
into Tom Elam counting iMac boxes? 8)
>
>> > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
>
>>
>> If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
>
>Why should he, when he can have a new PC for the price of a used or
>refurbished Mac?
>
>> >I wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still
>> >have one. A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a
>move
>> >from 32-bit to 64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy.
>
>> >This is the best time for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone.
>Send
>> >in the clones!
>> >
>> > John
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> JP
>> "The measure of a man is what he will do
>> knowing he will get nothing in return"
--
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > Yeah, "good enough" is the byword in todays industries, but we
> also
> > > see
> > > > that biting back. They end up servicing, fixing, upgrading and
> > > > maintaining and that's not at no cost.
> > >
> > > How did a self-employeed photographer come to fancy he knows
> anything
> > > about industry, and how they choose their tools, and how their
> > > computers run?
> >
> > Tell us why Nikon dominated so much of the professional market for
> SLR
> > cameras for so very long.
>
> Tell us what that has to do with my question to Jim, let alone what
> this thread is about.
Professional photography is an industry in the sense that you used the
word.
Jim Polaski
Mayor of R'lyeh <ev5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:50:12 GMT, Jim Polaski <jpol...@NOSpaMync.net>
> chose to bless us with the following wisdom:
>
> >In article <1104688746.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sandman wrote:
> >> > In article <1104688245.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > > and then go trolling on Usenet about how much more expensive
> >> > > higher-end > products are.
> >> > >
> >> > > To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates to
> >> > > "higher-end." That's why you'll overpay for an underpowered Mac.
> >> >
> >> > To you, and those like you, higher-priced automatically equates
> >> > to "overpaid".
> >>
> >> You know you're lying, as you've often seen me and those like me
> >> compare what one gets for the money, not automatically call the higher
> >> price "overpaid." You've also seen me defend some of Apple's
> >> higher-end offerings.
> >
> >We've repeatedly seen how you compare what one gets for their money.
> >You go to the lowest price and think it's the best there is.
>
> Its all about the value, Jim. Why should I pay more for a machine that
> fits the specs I want? Its not just about the lowest price. Its about
> the lowest price that fits the bill.
And you just can't stand the fact that the Mac fits that bill for the
folks here. It eats at you so badly you are compelled to come here and
attack the Mac.
>
> > Second, you
> >advocate building something yourself omitting the labor and other costs,
> >yet compare it to a branded box built by an OEM.
>
> STILL pushing the 'Phantom Cost' theorem?
You're right. Folks like you and Slade are worthless, since you consider
your time to not have any value.
> >
> >Yeah, you know how to compare alright.
>
> Well he's got sense enough not to charge himself money for labor he
> did himself for himself. That puts him one up on you.
No. While he'd building, testing and configuring, the Mac users are
being productive with their computers.
Jim Polaski
Why would I want a laptop with a built in camera? I suppose you hold
your laptop up to your eye to aim and focus the built-in camera? You
must be a professional photographer.
>
> > Buy that low price PC and you end up upgrading the box to do what the
>
> > Mac just does seamlessly out of the box.
>
> No, the PC comes with nmore ability to handle multimedia than does the
> Mac, as it comes with more RAM, mor VRAM, and a better video card, for
> less than the price of a Mac.
Nope, the iMac easily beats the PC in far easier ease of use and
integration across apps. iLife beats the PC software easily for mr.
average.
>
> > Can mr average buy the upgrades
> > and get them installed and working?
>
> YES!!! Unless you're talking about the average retard...
Then how come the stories of folks having trouble is so rampant?
>
> > The better question is "do they feel
> > they can do the upgrades" or are they scared? When many, many users
> have
> > trouble maintaining a Win box to keep it up in todays insecure
> internet
> > are they going to feel comfortable opening up their box to add cards,
> or
> > other upgrades and expect that it will just work? Doubtful. Not that
> > it's that hard, they're just afraid....that mr. average user.
>
> That's the fantasy you've created in your mind about what the "average
> user" is.
Um you ought to get out more. Try reading the media and you'll find many
accounts of the troubles the average user has and continues to have in
the Windows world...and that's if they manage to download SP2 and not
get infected while doing it.
>
> > They want
> > to box to just work when they turn it on.
>
> Then a PC is the right thing for them. Cheaper than a Mac, more
> powerful, and it "just works" when you turn it on.
>
> I notice that when the topic of speed and power come up, you switch to
> the "average user" doing Web surfing, email, and word processing, to
> negate the need for speed and power, but when price is the factor, all
> of a sudden the average user is heavily involved in digital video
> editing.
no, it's about value. Buy that cheap PC and you'lll upgrade it to get to
even what the eMac offers. You'll buy extra software to get to what i
Life offers out of the box. You'll add AV and other utilities to attempt
to keep your PC safe, while that iMac requires nothing to avoid such
problems. Besides, iLife is a well integrated suite that was designed to
work well. It has no equal on the PC, but we've been over that and you
can't see it.
Jim Polaski
ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
I should learn since I do know his only purpose is to mangle and argue.
Ok..
Jim Polaski
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Free is what someone wants to give you that may or may not be what you
want. No accountability, and more than likely with the huge competition
in the Wintle world, it's crap. How much time do you want to spend
finding and testing all those free programs?
>
> > OS X is far more elegant and secure.
>
> Then the Windows PC you have to infect your clients' Windows PCs?
> [snip]
another mangled snip...geeze..
Jim Polaski
Mayor of R'lyeh <ev5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have this image of Jim when he also worked for Market Source
supporting the iMac when it was sold at Sears. He had to visit three
stores each weekend that needed support and this gave him the chance to
visit with the consumers that came there to look at or purchase a
computer. He actually spent more time with PC buyers than iMac buyers
because of Sears policies with commissions on computers(which was lower
than other things like TV's and Vacuums, btw). So he got to hear what
those *average users* were looking for in a computer. In fact, it was an
arduous process to, as the Sears SA's would say, "qualify" a PC buyer
since there were choices, and they didn't know what they wanted. The
iMac buyers usually came in knowing what they wanted to buy and often
had a list, printed from the Apple store, but came to Sears for their
warrantee. Jim often did the work of the Sears SA's since they didn't
want to sell *any* computer due to the low commissions. Often, he'd
qualify the buyer while he was there and then go shag a SA to write
things up. It was a real insight as to what's important to the average
consumer that was coming into Sears to buy a computer and not just an
iMac, but the HP's they sold there as well and some peripherals. It was
really obvious that there are different ways of buying habits between
the PC buyer and the iMac buyer, at least at the Sears stores. I'd bet
it's not much different elsewhere. Leapord's and Zebra's don't change
their spots or stripes.
Edwin
> Jim often did the work of the Sears SA's since they didn't
> want to sell *any* computer due to the low commissions. Often, he'd
> qualify the buyer while he was there and then go shag a SA to write
> things up. [snip]
Jim was a whore for Apple! He was shagging SA guys at Sears to get
them to sell Macs!
[snip]
Edwin
Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <1104723480.2...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Yeah, "good enough" is the byword in todays industries, but
we
> > also
> > > > see
> > > > > that biting back. They end up servicing, fixing, upgrading
and
> > > > > maintaining and that's not at no cost.
> > > >
> > > > How did a self-employeed photographer come to fancy he knows
> > anything
> > > > about industry, and how they choose their tools, and how their
> > > > computers run?
> > >
> > > Tell us why Nikon dominated so much of the professional market
for
> > SLR
> > > cameras for so very long.
> >
> > Tell us what that has to do with my question to Jim, let alone what
> > this thread is about.
>
> Professional photography is an industry in the sense that you used
the
> word.
Not in the sense I used the word, and not in the sense Jim did either,
when he wrote "..."good enough" is the byword in todays industries..."
Edwin
It's strange that your killfile doesn't prevent you from lying about
me, doubly so when you're the King of Snip Mangling.
Mayor of R'lyeh
So your basis for declaring that you know all about the 'average user'
is based on ten year old experience at one store. I thought it would
be something like that.
>> >
>> >> > If I could build a Mac for the same price as a PC I would have one.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you're so compromised, buy a used Mac or a refurb.
>> >
>> >Why should he, when he can have a new PC for the price of a used or
>> >refurbished Mac?
>> >
>> >> >I wouldn't like the lack of support for AGP cards but I would still
>> >> >have one. A lot more people might look at the Mac. Hell there is a
>> >move
>> >> >from 32-bit to 64-bit and new technology is springing up like crazy.
>> >
>> >> >This is the best time for there to be a non-proprietary Mac clone.
>> >Send
>> >> >in the clones!
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards,
>> >> JP
>> >> "The measure of a man is what he will do
>> >> knowing he will get nothing in return"
--
Mayor of R'lyeh
I've never attacked the Mac. Why would I? Is it even possible that's
there a bigger waste of time than hating an inantimate object?
Its the loonietunes users of the Mac that are my targets.
>>
>> > Second, you
>> >advocate building something yourself omitting the labor and other costs,
>> >yet compare it to a branded box built by an OEM.
>>
>> STILL pushing the 'Phantom Cost' theorem?
>
>You're right. Folks like you and Slade are worthless, since you consider
>your time to not have any value.
No I'm just smart enough to realize that the notion that every single
second of your time has a cost to it is bullshit. Sometimes people do
things for reasons other than money. You seem to be unable to grasp
such a concept.
Wasn't it you who said he built a staircase for his home? How much did
you pay yourself for that and what steps did you take to ensure that
you got your money from yourself?
>
>> >
>> >Yeah, you know how to compare alright.
>>
>> Well he's got sense enough not to charge himself money for labor he
>> did himself for himself. That puts him one up on you.
>
>No. While he'd building, testing and configuring, the Mac users are
>being productive with their computers.
And while the Maccies are engaged in their hobbies I'm being
productive. Or are you going to claim that Maccies are productive
24/7/52 like you claim that every second of everyone's life has a
dollar sign on it?
Mathew M.
"John Slade" <hitm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > This guy has got it right well at least for prices back then. P4
> Dells
> > > are a lot cheaper. But I still wouldn't buy a dell. Dude, Don't buy a
> Dell.
> > > Buy a non proprietary system.
> >
> > And then put a proprietary OS on it?
>
> All software is proprietary except for Linux and they have some
> proprietary distributions.
Bullshit.
> Get a clue. You should know what you're talking
> about before you make a fool of yourself. Tell us again who makes Mac HDs?
There's a Fujitsu in my iBook G4.
Got nothing at all to do with whether an OS is proprietary or not.
[...]