Hibernation revisited.
Edwin
Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
from Deep Sleep.
But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
hibernation.
Edwin
--------------
"BONK" -- Rick
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> from Deep Sleep.
It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>
> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>
> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> hibernation.
Sure they do, it isn't needed.
Edwin
wrote:
>In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
>> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
>> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
>> from Deep Sleep.
>
>It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
Not from what I've seen.
>>
>> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
>> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
>> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>
>Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
sleep.
>>
>> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>> hibernation.
>
>Sure they do, it isn't needed.
Denial ain't just a river.
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> >> from Deep Sleep.
> >
> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>
> Not from what I've seen.
It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
hibernation.
>
> >>
> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
> >
> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>
> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
> sleep.
And yet, my dual G4 has no problems - like the iBook. I'd imagine your
work G4 has a card in it with firmware that needs updating.
>
> >>
> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> >> hibernation.
> >
> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>
> Denial ain't just a river.
Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
sleep, why not take advantage of it?
Dumass wasn't just an author!
Lloyd Parsons
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> >> from Deep Sleep.
> >
> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>
> Not from what I've seen.
>
You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
saved state.
Deep sleep doesn't do this, and coming out of deep sleep is nearly
instantaneous on my G4 Cube. I use this every day. I put it into
sleep mode at night and during the week, only waking it when I use it.
> >>
> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
> >
> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>
> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
> sleep.
>
Interesting....
I've not seen a problem with sleep on my 2 current macs, nor my imac in
a previous life.
> >>
> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> >> hibernation.
> >
> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>
> Denial ain't just a river.
>
> Edwin
>
Its not denial, hibernation is another nice ms idea that for many,
doesn't work well. You probably are an exception.
Lloyd
Edwin
wrote:
>In article <0qljbuoqqpelrnsrg...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
>> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
>> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
>> >> from Deep Sleep.
>> >
>> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>>
>> Not from what I've seen.
>
>It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
>Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
>about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
>hibernation.
Please let us know all the great things you get done with those extra
10 to 18 seconds.
I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
>>
>> >>
>> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
>> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
>> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>> >
>> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>>
>> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
>> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
>> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
>> sleep.
>
>And yet, my dual G4 has no problems - like the iBook. I'd imagine your
>work G4 has a card in it with firmware that needs updating.
This machine is 3 months old at best. Perhaps you should work for
Apple Tech Support. They haven't solved the problem after eight
calls.
>>
>> >>
>> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>> >> hibernation.
>> >
>> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>>
>> Denial ain't just a river.
>
>Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
>sleep, why not take advantage of it?
Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
Sleep was already there.
>Dumass wasn't just an author!
I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
Edwin
<ll...@lloydparsons.com> wrote:
>In article <0qljbuoqqpelrnsrg...@4ax.com>, Edwin
><ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
>> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
>> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
>> >> from Deep Sleep.
>> >
>> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>>
>> Not from what I've seen.
>>
>You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
>hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
>saved state.
How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
>Deep sleep doesn't do this, and coming out of deep sleep is nearly
>instantaneous on my G4 Cube. I use this every day. I put it into
>sleep mode at night and during the week, only waking it when I use it.
What have you got to say to the Mac owners who have Macs that the
sleep feature doesn't work on?
>> >>
>> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
>> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
>> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>> >
>> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>>
>> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
>> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
>> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
>> sleep.
>>
>Interesting....
>
>I've not seen a problem with sleep on my 2 current macs, nor my imac in
>a previous life.
What a comfort that is to my employer! Let's forget that our Mac
won't come out of sleep, it's okay as long as yours does. :-P
>> >>
>> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>> >> hibernation.
>> >
>> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>>
>> Denial ain't just a river.
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>Its not denial, hibernation is another nice ms idea that for many,
>doesn't work well. You probably are an exception.
Nope. My experience with hibernation is typical.
Trevor Zion Bauknight
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
> >hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
> >saved state.
>
> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
Allowing you to begin boring the crap out of everyone else on CSMA that
much more quickly! C:\ONGRATUL.8NS.
Trev
--
"I think Trevor is an idot. Just the kind of robot President CLITton likes.
Supid people!" - Husker Kev
James Boswell
> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
Time it?
my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to rouse
from hibernation..
about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at power on, the rest
is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram.
-JB
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:41:25 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <0qljbuoqqpelrnsrg...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
> >> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> >> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> >> >> from Deep Sleep.
> >> >
> >> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> >>
> >> Not from what I've seen.
> >
> >It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
> >Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
> >about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
> >hibernation.
>
> Please let us know all the great things you get done with those extra
> 10 to 18 seconds.
Let's not forget, the laptop goes to sleep and wakes up many times a
day. It's very nice to have laptop awake, on the current network and
ready to go by the time I've got the screen all the way open.
>
> I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
>
More power to you then.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> >> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> >> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
> >> >
> >> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
> >>
> >> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
> >> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
> >> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
> >> sleep.
> >
> >And yet, my dual G4 has no problems - like the iBook. I'd imagine your
> >work G4 has a card in it with firmware that needs updating.
>
> This machine is 3 months old at best. Perhaps you should work for
> Apple Tech Support. They haven't solved the problem after eight
> calls.
Ironically enough, I used to be a certified Apple technician. It's like
I said, the G4 probably has something installed in it that doesn't
handle sleep properly - adaptec SCSI cards are notorious for that.
>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> >> >> hibernation.
> >> >
> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
> >>
> >> Denial ain't just a river.
> >
> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
>
> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
> Sleep was already there.
Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it does
a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
>
> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
>
> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
Edwin
<tr...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>In article <nfojbu4ca1lqgb88m...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
>> >You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
>> >hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
>> >saved state.
>>
>> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
>> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
>
>Allowing you to begin boring the crap out of everyone else on CSMA that
>much more quickly! C:\ONGRATUL.8NS.
Thanks.
Jason S.
comp.sys.mac.advocacy:
> Time it?
They don't compress the data before dropping it on the disk?
Edwin
Now give me the figure for rousing a Mac from sleep where the sleep
feature doesn't work.
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
It's the same for a PC that instead of resuming a hibernated state,
simply reboots.
Happens on my co-workers Dell 8100 laptop from time to time.
James Boswell
Not that I'm aware of (and it does seem to save/restore close to the speed
my disk operates) I have a hunch that it only saves a file the size of the
ram in use (which for me is typically 180MB) though.
-JB
B.B.
<superbri-FD0594...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
@> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
@> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
@> from Deep Sleep.
@
@It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
@
@>
@> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
@> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
@> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
@
@Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
My G4/400 won't sleep.
@> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
@> hibernation.
@
@Sure they do, it isn't needed.
As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
with windows.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 @mac.com @airmail.net
Brian Lewis
<387457B4234E98E9.5F8BA744...@lp.airnews.net>,
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
> In article
> <superbri-FD0594...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> @> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> @> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> @> from Deep Sleep.
> @
> @It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> @
> @>
> @> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> @> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> @> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
> @
> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>
> My G4/400 won't sleep.
Which OS?
>
> @> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> @> hibernation.
> @
> @Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>
> As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
> advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
> with windows.
I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
I'm not one of them.
Edwin
wrote:
Yep, that extra 10 seconds really makes a difference, eh?
>>
>> I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
>>
>
>More power to you then.
Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
>> >> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
>> >> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>> >> >
>> >> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>> >>
>> >> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech Support
>> >> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from sleep.
>> >> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not go to
>> >> sleep.
>> >
>> >And yet, my dual G4 has no problems - like the iBook. I'd imagine your
>> >work G4 has a card in it with firmware that needs updating.
>>
>> This machine is 3 months old at best. Perhaps you should work for
>> Apple Tech Support. They haven't solved the problem after eight
>> calls.
>
>Ironically enough, I used to be a certified Apple technician. It's like
>I said, the G4 probably has something installed in it that doesn't
>handle sleep properly - adaptec SCSI cards are notorious for that.
Hmm... that's funny... Windows has no problems with Adaptec SCSI
cards... I wonder why the 'superior' Mac does...
>>
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>> >> >> hibernation.
>> >> >
>> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>> >>
>> >> Denial ain't just a river.
>> >
>> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
>> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
>>
>> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
>> Sleep was already there.
>
>Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it does
>a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
You're still quibbling about 10 to 18 seconds of time? Perhaps you
ought to think about what the difference and benefits are other than a
paltry savings of seconds?
>>
>> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
>>
>> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
>
>Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
See what I mean?
Mike Dee
<superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
It's sort of like Edwin(s) two button mouse slather. He'll get all
focused onto some irrational twist to an argument and can't let it go,
any minute now he'll get all frothy in the mouth and start flapping his
arms about how "two buttons/hibernation/whales/seals and BONK--Rick" is
something all Maccies should seriously consider before they make the
mistake of buying another Mac.
Tragic.
D.
--
C:\>DEL EDWIN.*
Edwin
<DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
>In article
><superbri-FD0594...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>@> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
>@> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
>@> from Deep Sleep.
>@
>@It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
>@
>@>
>@> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
>@> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
>@> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>@
>@Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>
> My G4/400 won't sleep.
Thank you for your honesty. I know at least two Mac users who have
problems with sleep on their Macs, and I can't believe they're the
only ones.
>@> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>@> hibernation.
>@
>@Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>
> As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
>advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
>with windows.
Thank you again for your honesty.
B.B.
<superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
@> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
@>
@> My G4/400 won't sleep.
@
@Which OS?
OSX. Works just fine with OS9.
@> @> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
@> @> hibernation.
@> @
@> @Sure they do, it isn't needed.
@>
@> As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
@> advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
@> with windows.
@
@I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
@That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
@I'm not one of them.
Yeah, I don't really need it all that much, but I do see occasions
where I would like to have it.
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
Oh you really don't want to go there. Shall I jump into the ASUS forums
and pull up all the problems with suspend and hibernate?
>
>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> >> >> >> hibernation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Denial ain't just a river.
> >> >
> >> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
> >> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
> >>
> >> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
> >> Sleep was already there.
> >
> >Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it does
> >a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
>
> You're still quibbling about 10 to 18 seconds of time? Perhaps you
> ought to think about what the difference and benefits are other than a
> paltry savings of seconds?
The whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting down is
the time savings.
>
> >>
> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> >>
> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> >
> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
>
> See what I mean?
To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
coming out of my mouth?"
Brian Lewis
<AAD1C36D796E80BF.9C154E2C...@lp.airnews.net>,
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
> In article
> <superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> @> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
> @>
> @> My G4/400 won't sleep.
> @
> @Which OS?
>
> OSX. Works just fine with OS9.
What model? Any add-in cards? When you say it won't sleep, so you mean
it won't sleep on it's own or you cannot have it go to sleep by choosing
sleep in the apple menu?
>
> @> @> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> @> @> hibernation.
> @> @
> @> @Sure they do, it isn't needed.
> @>
> @> As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
> @> advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
> @> with windows.
> @
> @I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
> @That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
> @I'm not one of them.
>
> Yeah, I don't really need it all that much, but I do see occasions
> where I would like to have it.
When for example? I used to have a Thinkpad 390e and I never hibernated
the system (it wouldn't always resume, sometimes it would just restart.)
Edwin
wrote:
ASUS forums? You said this was an Adaptec problem. Why are you
switching to motherboards?
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>> >> >> >> hibernation.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Denial ain't just a river.
>> >> >
>> >> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
>> >> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
>> >>
>> >> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
>> >> Sleep was already there.
>> >
>> >Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it does
>> >a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
>>
>> You're still quibbling about 10 to 18 seconds of time? Perhaps you
>> ought to think about what the difference and benefits are other than a
>> paltry savings of seconds?
>
>The whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting down is
>the time savings.
Of 10 to 18 seconds? Please tell us what use you put those valuable
saved seconds to.
>>
>> >>
>> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
>> >>
>> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
>> >
>> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
>>
>> See what I mean?
>
>To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
>coming out of my mouth?"
No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
Edwin
I said that an optical two button scroll mouse for $30 is a better
deal than a one button Apple mouse for $60. Explain how that is a
"slather."
>He'll get all
>focused onto some irrational twist to an argument and can't let it go,
You're projecting your traits into me.
>any minute now he'll get all frothy in the mouth and start flapping his
>arms about how "two buttons/hibernation/whales/seals and BONK--Rick" is
>something all Maccies should seriously consider before they make the
>mistake of buying another Mac.
>
>Tragic.
You're a really queer individual, Mike.
Edwin
<DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
>In article
><superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>@> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
>@>
>@> My G4/400 won't sleep.
>@
>@Which OS?
>
> OSX. Works just fine with OS9.
We have a dual 800 where I work, that doesn't sleep with OS 9.
>@> @> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
>@> @> hibernation.
>@> @
>@> @Sure they do, it isn't needed.
>@>
>@> As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
>@> advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
>@> with windows.
>@
>@I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
>@That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
>@I'm not one of them.
>
> Yeah, I don't really need it all that much, but I do see occasions
>where I would like to have it.
Thanks for that.
Mike Dee
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:46:50 +1000, Mike Dee
> <emte...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> > Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <387457B4234E98E9.5F8BA744...@lp.airnews.net>,
> >> "B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
> >>
[snipped]
> >> >
> >> > As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
> >> > advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
> >> > with windows.
> >>
> >> I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
> >> That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
> >> I'm not one of them.
> >
> >It's sort of like Edwin(s) two button mouse slather.
>
> I said that an optical two button scroll mouse for $30 is a better
> deal than a one button Apple mouse for $60. Explain how that is a
> "slather."
What? It took you how many posts to say that?
>
> >He'll get all
> >focused onto some irrational twist to an argument and can't let it go,
>
> You're projecting your traits into me.
No, Your projecting.
> >any minute now he'll get all frothy in the mouth and start flapping his
> >arms about how "two buttons/hibernation/whales/seals and BONK--Rick" is
> >something all Maccies should seriously consider before they make the
> >mistake of buying another Mac.
> >
> >Tragic.
>
> You're a really queer individual, Mike.
Not as queer as some, it seems, Edwin.
>
> Edwin
>
> --------------
> "BONK" -- Rick
D.
----
Well, at least my "particle" is bigger than yours, so there. --- CW
Subject: Re: Cool, if only this would happen, then....
Edwin
<emte...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>In article <uaqkbu487s91qv9nd...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:46:50 +1000, Mike Dee
>> <emte...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
>> > Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article
>> >> <387457B4234E98E9.5F8BA744...@lp.airnews.net>,
>> >> "B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
>> >>
>[snipped]
>> >> >
>> >> > As I said to Edwin in his first thread on this topic: Windows has the
>> >> > advantage here, but it's not a big enough advantage for me to put up
>> >> > with windows.
>> >>
>> >> I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
>> >> That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
>> >> I'm not one of them.
>> >
>> >It's sort of like Edwin(s) two button mouse slather.
>>
>> I said that an optical two button scroll mouse for $30 is a better
>> deal than a one button Apple mouse for $60. Explain how that is a
>> "slather."
>
>What? It took you how many posts to say that?
I said that from the very first post. Idiots like you couldn't
understand it, and made a huge argument out of it.
>>
>> >He'll get all
>> >focused onto some irrational twist to an argument and can't let it go,
>>
>> You're projecting your traits into me.
>
>No, Your projecting.
Does pretending this is true help to soothe your dark soul?
>> >any minute now he'll get all frothy in the mouth and start flapping his
>> >arms about how "two buttons/hibernation/whales/seals and BONK--Rick" is
>> >something all Maccies should seriously consider before they make the
>> >mistake of buying another Mac.
>> >
>> >Tragic.
>>
>> You're a really queer individual, Mike.
>
>Not as queer as some, it seems, Edwin.
You're selling yourself short, Mike.
Sandman
> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation feature
> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same results
> from Deep Sleep.
>
> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going to sleep,
> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these bugs up are
> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
>
> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> hibernation.
It didn't have before, either. What has changed?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
> >> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> >>
> >> Not from what I've seen.
> >
> >It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
> >Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
> >about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
> >hibernation.
>
> Please let us know all the great things you get done with those extra
> 10 to 18 seconds.
Why? He said it was faster, you argued. He was right.
> I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
Why?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
> >You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
> >hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
> >saved state.
>
> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
Ironically, your "few seconds" is something like "under half a minute" as
you described in your original thread on this subject [1].
If I had to describe the time my laptop takes to wake with the words "under
half a minute" i'd be ashamed. As it is, I describe it as "under a second".
And since I use a Mac OS X, being able to wake it over the network to ssh
or ftp to it is very usefull. If you're hubernating, you're out of luck.
Yes, I did try hibernation on my 2Ghz PC at home and waking from it took
just about half a minute, just like you described. Unbearable, it even
-boots- faster than that. I see no use for this feature what so ever.
[1] "It doesn't do a POST when returning from hibernation, and it does take
only a few seconds. I did it tonight. It took under a half a
minute."
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"James Boswell" <jamesb...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> > GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
>
> Time it?
>
> my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to rouse
> from hibernation..
Edwins "matter of seconds" does indeed mean "30 seconds" also. He's saying
"matter of seconds" to make it sound as if it's quick. It isn't.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> >> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
> >
> >Time it?
> >
> >my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to rouse
> >from hibernation..
> >
> >about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at power on, the rest
> >is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram.
>
> Now give me the figure for rousing a Mac from sleep where the sleep
> feature doesn't work.
If you give me a time for a PC to wake from hibernation where hibernation
doesn't work.
Geesh are you desperate or what. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Brian Lewis
Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
No, I used Adaptec as an example. Since you proclaim that Windows has no
problems with Adaptec SCSI (of which you are so wrong to generalize,) I
merely point out another example. You really don't want to go down the
incompatibility road.
You really don't.
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to Windows
> >> >> >> >> hibernation.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Denial ain't just a river.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit S3
> >> >> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
> >> >>
> >> >> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was added.
> >> >> Sleep was already there.
> >> >
> >> >Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it does
> >> >a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
> >>
> >> You're still quibbling about 10 to 18 seconds of time? Perhaps you
> >> ought to think about what the difference and benefits are other than a
> >> paltry savings of seconds?
> >
> >The whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting down is
> >the time savings.
>
> Of 10 to 18 seconds? Please tell us what use you put those valuable
> saved seconds to.
Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting
down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
(especially with a lot of RAM.)
>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> >> >>
> >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> >> >
> >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> >>
> >> See what I mean?
> >
> >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
> >coming out of my mouth?"
>
> No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial reply.
B.B.
<superbri-56952F...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
@In article
@<AAD1C36D796E80BF.9C154E2C...@lp.airnews.net>,
@ "B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
@
@> In article
@> <superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
@> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
@>
@> @> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
@> @>
@> @> My G4/400 won't sleep.
@> @
@> @Which OS?
@>
@> OSX. Works just fine with OS9.
@
@What model?
See above.
@Any add-in cards?
The SCSI card it came with.
@When you say it won't sleep, so you mean
@it won't sleep on it's own or you cannot have it go to sleep by choosing
@sleep in the apple menu?
The screen will sleep, the disks will spin down, but the PCI bus
stays powered up.
@> @I don't see it as an advantage, rather a feature I have no need for.
@> @That being said, I'm sure there are people who find hibernate useful -
@> @I'm not one of them.
@>
@> Yeah, I don't really need it all that much, but I do see occasions
@> where I would like to have it.
@
@When for example? I used to have a Thinkpad 390e and I never hibernated
@the system (it wouldn't always resume, sometimes it would just restart.)
When I have dozens of documents open and decide I want to take a nap.
Under OS9 I would just choose sleep, and the system would be silent. In
OSXI have to save everything, power down, then start it up again later,
reopen everything, and reposition all the windows.
Actualy, I'd be happy with either hibernate or deep sleep, but under
OSX I don't have either option.
B.B.
[...]
@>It's sort of like Edwin(s) two button mouse slather.
@
@I said that an optical two button scroll mouse for $30 is a better
@deal than a one button Apple mouse for $60. Explain how that is a
@"slather."
It depends on what you're interested in. Some people simply like the
Apple mouse more and wouldn't use the second mouse button or scroll
wheel.
Some folks are quite happy to spend an extra $30 to have "Eddie
Bauer"(sp?) stitched onto their shirt, why not let some people spend an
extra $30 for a mouse that matches the computer?
[personally, I have a logitech mouse--it was more cost-effective]
Tim Adams
03F6946B1184F65D.870125DF...@lp.airnews.net, B.B. at
DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw wrote on 4/15/02 9:24 AM:
> In article
> <superbri-56952F...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> @In article
> @<AAD1C36D796E80BF.9C154E2C...@lp.airnews.net>,
> @ "B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
> @
> @> In article
> @> <superbri-4A024D...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com>,
> @> Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com> wrote:
> @>
> @> @> @Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
> @> @>
> @> @> My G4/400 won't sleep.
> @> @
> @> @Which OS?
> @>
> @> OSX. Works just fine with OS9.
> @
> @What model?
>
> See above.
>
> @Any add-in cards?
>
> The SCSI card it came with.
IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
Edwin
"Brian Lewis" <supe...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:superbri-845D41...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com...
When I pointed out Windows has no problems with what you used as an example,
you changed the subject.
>Since you proclaim that Windows has no
> problems with Adaptec SCSI (of which you are so wrong to generalize,)
I don't believe I'm wrong. You wouldn't have changed the subject if I were.
>I
> merely point out another example.
You merely change the subject!
> You really don't want to go down the
> incompatibility road.
Because it embarrasses Mac owners?
> You really don't.
I didn't. I bought a PC instead of a Mac. No SCSI compatibility problems
for me.
Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save with
sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get what
he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
> >
> > >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> > >> >
> > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> > >>
> > >> See what I mean?
> > >
> > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
> > >coming out of my mouth?"
> >
> > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
>
> Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial reply.
No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you really
ought to defy it.
Edwin
Edwin
"Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in message
news:mr-31EEFF.09...@news.fu-berlin.de...
> In article <gmnjbuok2a6971gmc...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
> > >> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> > >>
> > >> Not from what I've seen.
> > >
> > >It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
> > >Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
> > >about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
> > >hibernation.
> >
> > Please let us know all the great things you get done with those extra
> > 10 to 18 seconds.
>
> Why? He said it was faster, you argued. He was right.
Would you accept such a petty "advantage" if it were on the PC side?
> > I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
>
> Why?
Did you forget the reasons you were given the last time you participated in
a discussion on hibernation?
Edwin
Edwin
> In article <1ivjbuc59te31dlqs...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:02:19 +0000 (UTC), "James Boswell"
> > <jamesb...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> > >> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
> > >
> > >Time it?
> > >
> > >my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to
rouse
> > >from hibernation..
> > >
> > >about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at power on, the
rest
> > >is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram.
> >
> > Now give me the figure for rousing a Mac from sleep where the sleep
> > feature doesn't work.
>
> simply reboots.
>
> Happens on my co-workers Dell 8100 laptop from time to time.
Whenever a Mac advocate gets a hold of it?
Edwin
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> > > >>
> > > >> Not from what I've seen.
> > > >
> > > >It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto for the
> > > >Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7) takes
> > > >about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
> > > >hibernation.
> > >
> > > Please let us know all the great things you get done with those extra
> > > 10 to 18 seconds.
> >
> > Why? He said it was faster, you argued. He was right.
>
> Would you accept such a petty "advantage" if it were on the PC side?
It takes 30 seconds to return from hibernation on a fast system, it takes 1
second to wake from sleep on a Mac. If you want to call that an advantage
or not is irrelevant, waking from sleep is alot more faster than waking
from hibernation. On both systems. Hell, even booting a Windows machine is
faster than waking it from hibernation.
> > > I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
> >
> > Why?
>
> Did you forget the reasons you were given the last time you participated in
> a discussion on hibernation?
I never read any good reasons back then. I read alot about power outage and
if you want to move your system around every now and then. Neither apply to
me. My desktops sits where they are, and we haven't had a power outage for
decades.
And if you are the type that carries your desktop to LAn parties where you
play starcraft, why would anyone prefer to hibernate instead of shut down?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting
> > down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
> > (especially with a lot of RAM.)
>
> Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save with
> sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get what
> he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
If I was stuck with a solution that kept my laptop inoperable for -THIRTY-
seconds everytime I open the lid, I'd be really disappointed in Apple. In
MacOS 9, wake-up times was alot longer, and with OSX, they are a second.
The difference is HUGE when it comes to how you use your laptop.
Luckily, for you, sleep works for Windows PC's too. How anyone can argue
that sleep is unnecessary when there is a solution that takes 30 times as
long to wake up from is beyond med.
Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some, but not for
the reasons you are advocating.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
<9BDE1E93F768C2E7.778F7C24...@lp.airnews.net>,
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
> @>It's sort of like Edwin(s) two button mouse slather.
> @
> @I said that an optical two button scroll mouse for $30 is a better
> @deal than a one button Apple mouse for $60. Explain how that is a
> @"slather."
>
> It depends on what you're interested in. Some people simply like the
> Apple mouse more and wouldn't use the second mouse button or scroll
> wheel.
> Some folks are quite happy to spend an extra $30 to have "Eddie
> Bauer"(sp?) stitched onto their shirt, why not let some people spend an
> extra $30 for a mouse that matches the computer?
> [personally, I have a logitech mouse--it was more cost-effective]
I don't think Edwin can compute the phrase "why not let people...?"
:)
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
> In article <a9es44$2kddl$1...@ID-56786.news.dfncis.de>,
> "Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
> > > Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting
> > > down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
> > > (especially with a lot of RAM.)
> >
> > Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save with
> > sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get what
> > he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
>
> If I was stuck with a solution that kept my laptop inoperable for -THIRTY-
> seconds everytime I open the lid, I'd be really disappointed in Apple. In
> MacOS 9, wake-up times was alot longer, and with OSX, they are a second.
That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one second. You've
got screen blanking confused with sleep.
> The difference is HUGE when it comes to how you use your laptop.
So your game is to pretend all computers are laptops? Even at that, how
many times do you have to open and close your laptop if you're working?
> Luckily, for you, sleep works for Windows PC's too. How anyone can argue
> that sleep is unnecessary when there is a solution that takes 30 times as
> long to wake up from is beyond med.
You like to say "30 times as long" as if 30 seconds were so much longer than
the 10 -20 seconds it takes to return from sleep.
> Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some, but not
for
> the reasons you are advocating.
Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those. That's what
I'm saying.
Edwin
Edwin
It is a common bug for sleep not to work on a Mac. There is no similar
hibernation bug on PCs. I'm not surprised this issue was too complicated
for you.
Edwin
Edwin
As usual, you snip the facts and insert your stupid comments.
James had written: "about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at
power on, the rest is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram."
The PC isn't always going to have to stream a half a gig of data into RAM to
come out of hibernation, so most of the time it's going to take considerably
less than 30 seconds. Not that I expect you to understand.
Edwin
Edwin
> In article <nfojbu4ca1lqgb88m...@4ax.com>,
> Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
> > >You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
> > >hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
> > >saved state.
> >
> > How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> > GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
>
> Ironically, your "few seconds" is something like "under half a minute" as
> you described in your original thread on this subject [1].
Ironically "under half a minute" is a few seconds, except for perhaps in a
certain household in Sweden.
> If I had to describe the time my laptop takes to wake with the words
"under
> half a minute" i'd be ashamed. As it is, I describe it as "under a
second".
That's because you're an idiot who doesn't know the difference between
screen blanking and sleep.
> And since I use a Mac OS X, being able to wake it over the network to ssh
> or ftp to it is very usefull. If you're hubernating, you're out of luck.
Thanks for pointing out another advantage of hibernation. It blocks others
from waking your computer, yet lets you take up from where you left off.
> Yes, I did try hibernation on my 2Ghz PC at home and waking from it took
> just about half a minute, just like you described. Unbearable, it even
> -boots- faster than that.
The length of time it takes to return from hibernation depends on how much
you had going on when you hibernated.
> I see no use for this feature what so ever.
Yet in other posts you said you did see a use for it. In another post you
claimed you always acknowledged this as a Windows advantage.
> [1] "It doesn't do a POST when returning from hibernation, and it does
take
> only a few seconds. I did it tonight. It took under a half a
> minute."
Edwin
Edwin
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote in message
news:9BDE1E93F768C2E7.778F7C24...@lp.airnews.net...
Was your remark about the Logitech mouse a "slather?" It's the same thing
I've been saying.
Edwin
Edwin
Must you always be a grinning idiot? It was my suggestion that Apple let
their buyers choose between their mouse, the Logitech mouse, and the MS
mouse.
"Why not let the people..." indeed!
Edwin
Edwin
"Tim Adams" <tea...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:B8E064DE.47E83%tea...@attbi.com...
Why didn't Apple provide the correct ROM at the time of purchase? Why does
B.B. have to do Apple's work for them? Is this the new definition of "ease
of use?"
Sandman
wrote:
> > > > Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting
> > > > down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
> > > > (especially with a lot of RAM.)
> > >
> > > Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save with
> > > sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get what
> > > he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
> >
> > If I was stuck with a solution that kept my laptop inoperable for -THIRTY-
> > seconds everytime I open the lid, I'd be really disappointed in Apple. In
> > MacOS 9, wake-up times was alot longer, and with OSX, they are a second.
>
> That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one second. You've
> got screen blanking confused with sleep.
You are wrong and I am correct. I have a Mac laptop and you don't.
> > The difference is HUGE when it comes to how you use your laptop.
>
> So your game is to pretend all computers are laptops?
Obviously not, but I am in this thread with my perspective at hand.
> Even at that, how many times do you have to open and close your laptop if
> you're working?
Why confine it only to "working"? Why not when I am using it? I open and close
the lid many times on a regular session, when I move from one room to another,
when I hand it over to my girlfriend so she can check her mail, when I close it
to take care of my son who is crying, when I go upstairs in my home and so on...
If I had to wait thirty seconds everytime I wanted to open the lid, it would be
very frustrating.
> > Luckily, for you, sleep works for Windows PC's too. How anyone can argue
> > that sleep is unnecessary when there is a solution that takes 30 times as
> > long to wake up from is beyond med.
>
> You like to say "30 times as long" as if 30 seconds were so much longer than
> the 10 -20 seconds it takes to return from sleep.
Why do you think my laptops takes 10-20 seconds to wake from sleep? I've already
told you it takes one second, tops. When the lid is opened and I can lay my eyes
on the screen, the computer is fully awake. Surely PC laptops are this quick
aswell?
> > Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some, but not for
> > the reasons you are advocating.
>
> Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those. That's what
> I'm saying.
And I am saying that's fine with me. Hibernation isn't a feature I would use. I
don't use it for my PC because waking fro mhibernation is slower than booting
the machine.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
wrote:
> > If you give me a time for a PC to wake from hibernation where hibernation
> > doesn't work.
> >
> > Geesh are you desperate or what. :)
>
> It is a common bug for sleep not to work on a Mac. There is no similar
> hibernation bug on PCs. I'm not surprised this issue was too complicated
> for you.
Hibernation doesn't work on my 233Mhz Fujitsu.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
wrote:
> > > > How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> > > > GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
> > >
> > > Time it?
> > >
> > > my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to rouse
> > > from hibernation..
> >
> > Edwins "matter of seconds" does indeed mean "30 seconds" also. He's saying
> > "matter of seconds" to make it sound as if it's quick. It isn't.
>
> As usual, you snip the facts and insert your stupid comments.
>
> James had written: "about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at
> power on, the rest is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram."
>
> The PC isn't always going to have to stream a half a gig of data into RAM to
> come out of hibernation, so most of the time it's going to take considerably
> less than 30 seconds. Not that I expect you to understand.
Hey Edwin. I have a PC, remember. I have used the feature. No matter what I was
doing, or what time during the day, or if it was a full moon or not, the time
was never 20 seconds. And you yourself has told us that your computer waking
from sleep is about half a minute. What are you trying to argue?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
wrote:
> > > >You must not have seen much then. Hibernation saves a memory image to
> > > >hard disk, this MUST be loaded for the computer to come back to its
> > > >saved state.
> > >
> > > How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3 GHz
> > > P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
> >
> > Ironically, your "few seconds" is something like "under half a minute" as
> > you described in your original thread on this subject [1].
>
> Ironically "under half a minute" is a few seconds, except for perhaps in a
> certain household in Sweden.
4 seconds is "a few seconds" in the context. But trying to bend the english
language to suit your "logic" isn't new. :)
> > If I had to describe the time my laptop takes to wake with the words "under
> > half a minute" i'd be ashamed. As it is, I describe it as "under a second".
>
> That's because you're an idiot who doesn't know the difference between screen
> blanking and sleep.
Again, I am correct and you are wrong. Sorry.
> > And since I use a Mac OS X, being able to wake it over the network to ssh
> > or ftp to it is very usefull. If you're hubernating, you're out of luck.
>
> Thanks for pointing out another advantage of hibernation. It blocks others
> from waking your computer, yet lets you take up from where you left off.
It also effectively blocks YOUR access to the computer via the network. I can't
have that.
> > Yes, I did try hibernation on my 2Ghz PC at home and waking from it took
> > just about half a minute, just like you described. Unbearable, it even
> > -boots- faster than that.
>
> The length of time it takes to return from hibernation depends on how much
> you had going on when you hibernated.
I have seen no such differences. It takes 32 seconds to wake from hibernation
when I have zero applications running.
> > I see no use for this feature what so ever.
>
> Yet in other posts you said you did see a use for it. In another post you
> claimed you always acknowledged this as a Windows advantage.
Yes, I can see why -others- have a use for it, I can't see any use for it for
me. Sorry if my wording was confusing.
> > [1] "It doesn't do a POST when returning from hibernation, and it does take
> > only a few seconds. I did it tonight. It took under a half a minute."
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
wrote:
> > > The SCSI card it came with.
> >
> > IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
>
> Why didn't Apple provide the correct ROM at the time of purchase?
Or why didn't Adaptec provide Apple with the correct ROM at the time of assembly?
--
Sandman[.net]
Tim Adams
wrote on 4/15/02 1:09 PM:
It isn't Apple's ROM idiot - it's the ROM that is located on the Adaptec
SCSI card, supplied by Adaptec.
~snip
Josiah Fizer
It sounds like the Adaptec card came with the Macintosh from Apple. It should therefor be supported by Apple. Or is the whole "Macs have better support because of their single source hardware" BS after all? For what its worth, the adaptec cards that shipped with the G3/450 systems I use where utter
junk. One of them caused the Mac to crash to the open firmware if it was installed. I ended up replacing them with ATTO cards from our old 9600s.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Edwin
Apple built the computer, idiot. It's up to them to make sure it works with
the parts they used. Apple supplied the card to B.B. in the Mac he bought,
he didn't buy it from Adaptec and install it himself.
Why don't you trying thinking before posting, Tim?
Edwin
Edwin
So you don't believe it was Apple's responsibility to test their computers
and verify that they work before they were shipped? You think Adaptec
should have done that for Apple?
Edwin
Edwin
And you never bothered to keep track of what the computer was doing.
>And you yourself has told us that your computer waking
> from sleep is about half a minute.
I said less than a half a minute. You quoted me in another post. Now your
selective memory is acting up again.
>What are you trying to argue?
You've been arguing with me without even knowing what the argument is about?
Typical Sandman.
Edwin
Edwin
Does it have an OS that supports hibernation?
Edwin
Edwin
> In article <a9f048$2jph8$1...@ID-56786.news.dfncis.de>, "Edwin"
<ze...@aiur.org>
> wrote:
>
> > > > > Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus
shutting
> > > > > down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
> > > > > (especially with a lot of RAM.)
> > > >
> > > > Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save
with
> > > > sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get
what
> > > > he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
> > >
> > > If I was stuck with a solution that kept my laptop inoperable
for -THIRTY-
> > > seconds everytime I open the lid, I'd be really disappointed in Apple.
In
> > > MacOS 9, wake-up times was alot longer, and with OSX, they are a
second.
> >
> > That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one second.
You've
> > got screen blanking confused with sleep.
>
> You are wrong and I am correct. I have a Mac laptop and you don't.
You are wrong and dumb to think you can fool anyone.
> > > The difference is HUGE when it comes to how you use your laptop.
> >
> > So your game is to pretend all computers are laptops?
>
> Obviously not, but I am in this thread with my perspective at hand.
The perspective of a dunce.
> > Even at that, how many times do you have to open and close your laptop
if
> > you're working?
>
> Why confine it only to "working"? Why not when I am using it? I open and
close
> the lid many times on a regular session, when I move from one room to
another,
> when I hand it over to my girlfriend so she can check her mail, when I
close it
> to take care of my son who is crying, when I go upstairs in my home and so
on...
> If I had to wait thirty seconds everytime I wanted to open the lid, it
would be
> very frustrating.
I can't see how you'd be doing all that other stuff and have it matter that
you'd wait 30 seconds after you opened the laptop.
> > > Luckily, for you, sleep works for Windows PC's too. How anyone can
argue
> > > that sleep is unnecessary when there is a solution that takes 30 times
as
> > > long to wake up from is beyond med.
> >
> > You like to say "30 times as long" as if 30 seconds were so much longer
than
> > the 10 -20 seconds it takes to return from sleep.
>
> Why do you think my laptops takes 10-20 seconds to wake from sleep? I've
already
> told you it takes one second, tops. When the lid is opened and I can lay
my eyes
> on the screen, the computer is fully awake. Surely PC laptops are this
quick
> aswell?
Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and sleep.
> > > Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some, but
not for
> > > the reasons you are advocating.
> >
> > Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those. That's
what
> > I'm saying.
>
> And I am saying that's fine with me. Hibernation isn't a feature I would
use. I
> don't use it for my PC because waking fro mhibernation is slower than
booting
> the machine.
Weird. You must have fscked it up.
Edwin
B.B.
Tim Adams <tea...@attbi.com> wrote:
@> @Any add-in cards?
@>
@> The SCSI card it came with.
@
@IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
SCSI card
Card type: scsi
Card name: ADPT,2930CU
Card model: ADPT,1686806-04
Card ROM #: 4.2
Card revision: 3
Card vendor ID: 9004
Hmm, looks like ADPT==Adaptec. Am I right?
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 @mac.com @airmail.net
Alan Baker
<E7AAFAF3F5C3E477.8C7F7F18...@lp.airnews.net>,
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw> wrote:
>In article <B8E064DE.47E83%tea...@attbi.com>,
> Tim Adams <tea...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>@> @Any add-in cards?
>@>
>@> The SCSI card it came with.
>@
>@IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
>
> SCSI card
> Card type: scsi
> Card name: ADPT,2930CU
> Card model: ADPT,1686806-04
> Card ROM #: 4.2
> Card revision: 3
> Card vendor ID: 9004
>
> Hmm, looks like ADPT==Adaptec. Am I right?
Exactly right.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that
wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the
bottom of that cupboard."
Mike Dee
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
They do choose. It comes with their Mac just how they want it to.
> "Why not let the people..." indeed!
Why not, indeed. And you can stop slathering now Eddies.
D.
----
And I say this as an honorary maccie so you can trust me.
-- "AppleDude", Subject: Re: Mac advocacy group extremism
Tim Adams
wrote on 4/15/02 6:22 PM:
And the computer works just fine I bet. IF he has an Adaptec card in it and
the computer doesn't sleep, then the card is BAD and needs to be fixed.
>, idiot. It's up to them to make sure it works with
> the parts they used. Apple supplied the card to B.B. in the Mac he bought,
> he didn't buy it from Adaptec and install it himself.
>
> Why don't you trying thinking before posting, Tim?
Why don't you just try thinking, idiot?
> Edwin
>
>
Tim Adams
jfi...@sdins.com wrote on 4/15/02 4:47 PM:
You may be able to get a new rom for the card from Apple. I got my ROM
upgrade directly from Adaptec. It'sa much easier to go the company that
built the card where the problem exists and cut out the middle men.
> Or is the whole "Macs have better support
> because of their single source hardware" BS after all?
An Adaptec card is now manufactured by Apple? It would have to be for it to
be single source.
> For what its worth, the
> adaptec cards that shipped with the G3/450 systems I use where utter
> junk. One of them caused the Mac to crash to the open firmware if it was
> installed. I ended up replacing them with ATTO cards from our old 9600s.
And other then a sleep problem, fixed a couple of years ago, I've had no
problem with mine at all, even works in OS X.
Tim Adams
E7AAFAF3F5C3E477.8C7F7F18...@lp.airnews.net, B.B. at
DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw wrote on 4/15/02 7:32 PM:
> In article <B8E064DE.47E83%tea...@attbi.com>,
> Tim Adams <tea...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> @> @Any add-in cards?
> @>
> @> The SCSI card it came with.
> @
> @IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
>
> SCSI card
> Card type: scsi
> Card name: ADPT,2930CU
> Card model: ADPT,1686806-04
> Card ROM #: 4.2
> Card revision: 3
> Card vendor ID: 9004
>
> Hmm, looks like ADPT==Adaptec. Am I right?
You certainly are. I've got the same card and my numbers duplicate your down
the line. Looks like if your system isn't sleeping it isn't the rom.
Chrisr
>It takes 30 seconds to return from hibernation on a fast system, it takes 1
>second to wake from sleep on a Mac. If you want to call that an advantage
>or not is irrelevant, waking from sleep is alot more faster than waking
>from hibernation. On both systems. Hell, even booting a Windows machine is
>faster than waking it from hibernation.
That is not true... Hibernation IS faster than booting, especially if
you have alot of apps open. Problems can sometimes arrise with
networking when the computer hibernates though. I usually hibernate
my windows 2000 machine becuase when it boots the dhcp needs about 5
minutes to time out for some reason (Ethernet based dsl). I could
probably fix it but I'm too lazy. My mac on the other hand wakes from
deep sleep very quickly (say about 5-10 seconds) Sometimes I forget
and leave it running for days and it still wakes up with no problem.
OSX BTW...
Chris
Brian Lewis
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> "Brian Lewis" <supe...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:superbri-19BBE4...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <1ivjbuc59te31dlqs...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:02:19 +0000 (UTC), "James Boswell"
> > > <jamesb...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> How ironic. The PC has faster disk I/0 than the Mac does. My 1.3
> > > >> GHz P4 comes out of hibernation in a matter of seconds.
> > > >
> > > >Time it?
> > > >
> > > >my 1.47Ghz Althon + Seagate BarracudaIV takes around 30 seconds to
> rouse
> > > >from hibernation..
> > > >
> > > >about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory testing at power on, the
> rest
> > > >is streaming half a gig of data from the disk into ram.
> > >
> > > Now give me the figure for rousing a Mac from sleep where the sleep
> > > feature doesn't work.
> >
> > It's the same for a PC that instead of resuming a hibernated state,
> > simply reboots.
> >
> > Happens on my co-workers Dell 8100 laptop from time to time.
>
> Whenever a Mac advocate gets a hold of it?
He's hardly a mac advocate. Remember, I said it's a co-workers Dell.
>
> Edwin
>
>
Brian Lewis
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> "Brian Lewis" <supe...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:superbri-845D41...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <d3qkbuk16cie66v9g...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:05:15 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article <7ajkbu0ehm69n8haj...@4ax.com>,
> > > > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:38:02 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >In article <gmnjbuok2a6971gmc...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:41:25 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >In article <0qljbuoqqpelrnsrg...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> >> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:00:19 GMT, Brian Lewis
> <supe...@mac.com>
> > > >> >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >In article <trjjbucv5hgtc6lqo...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> >> >> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> >> Several Maccies have stated they don't need the hibernation
> > > >> >> >> >> feature
> > > >> >> >> >> Windows has and Macs lack. They say they can get the same
> > > >> >> >> >> results
> > > >> >> >> >> from Deep Sleep.
> > > >> >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> >It's much faster to wake from deep sleep than hibernation.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Not from what I've seen.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >It takes my iBook less than 2 seconds to wake from sleep. Ditto
> for
> > > >> >> >the
> > > >> >> >Dual G4 (though the monitor takes a bit longer.) My PC (P4/1.7)
> takes
> > > >> >> >about 8-10 seconds to wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from
> > > >> >> >hibernation.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Please let us know all the great things you get done with those
> extra
> > > >> >> 10 to 18 seconds.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Let's not forget, the laptop goes to sleep and wakes up many times a
> > > >> >day. It's very nice to have laptop awake, on the current network and
> > > >> >ready to go by the time I've got the screen all the way open.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yep, that extra 10 seconds really makes a difference, eh?
> > > >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I'd rather use hibernation and have the computer completely off.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >More power to you then.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >> But then many Macs have a bug which prevents them from going
> to
> > > >> >> >> >> sleep,
> > > >> >> >> >> or from waking from sleep. The Maccies who bring these
> bugs up
> > > >> >> >> >> are
> > > >> >> >> >> told to stop "whining" and just turn their Macs off.
> > > >> >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> >Neither my iBook or my Dual G4 have any problems sleeping.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> We have a dual G4 where I work. Eight calls to Apple Tech
> Support
> > > >> >> >> have not resolved its problem in not being able to wake from
> sleep.
> > > >> >> >> I also know an owner of a Graphite iMac whose machine will not
> go to
> > > >> >> >> sleep.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >And yet, my dual G4 has no problems - like the iBook. I'd imagine
> your
> > > >> >> >work G4 has a card in it with firmware that needs updating.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> This machine is 3 months old at best. Perhaps you should work
> for
> > > >> >> Apple Tech Support. They haven't solved the problem after eight
> > > >> >> calls.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Ironically enough, I used to be a certified Apple technician. It's
> like
> > > >> >I said, the G4 probably has something installed in it that doesn't
> > > >> >handle sleep properly - adaptec SCSI cards are notorious for that.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hmm... that's funny... Windows has no problems with Adaptec SCSI
> > > >> cards... I wonder why the 'superior' Mac does...
> > > >
> > > >Oh you really don't want to go there. Shall I jump into the ASUS forums
> > > >and pull up all the problems with suspend and hibernate?
> > >
> > > ASUS forums? You said this was an Adaptec problem. Why are you
> > > switching to motherboards?
> >
> > No, I used Adaptec as an example.
>
> When I pointed out Windows has no problems with what you used as an example,
> you changed the subject.
>
> >Since you proclaim that Windows has no
> > problems with Adaptec SCSI (of which you are so wrong to generalize,)
>
> I don't believe I'm wrong. You wouldn't have changed the subject if I were.
>
> >I
> > merely point out another example.
>
> You merely change the subject!
>
> > You really don't want to go down the
> > incompatibility road.
>
> Because it embarrasses Mac owners?
>
> > You really don't.
>
> I didn't. I bought a PC instead of a Mac. No SCSI compatibility problems
> for me.
>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> >> That brings us full circle to the Mac having no answer to
> Windows
> > > >> >> >> >> hibernation.
> > > >> >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> >Sure they do, it isn't needed.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Denial ain't just a river.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Even on the PC, it isn't needed. If you have components that hit
> S3
> > > >> >> >sleep, why not take advantage of it?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Because hibernation is better than sleep. That's why it was
> added.
> > > >> >> Sleep was already there.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Is it now? It takes nearly as long to resume from hibernation as it
> does
> > > >> >a full boot. That's hardly better in my opinion.
> > > >>
> > > >> You're still quibbling about 10 to 18 seconds of time? Perhaps you
> > > >> ought to think about what the difference and benefits are other than
> a
> > > >> paltry savings of seconds?
> > > >
> > > >The whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting down is
> > > >the time savings.
> > >
> > > Of 10 to 18 seconds? Please tell us what use you put those valuable
> > > saved seconds to.
> >
> > Again, the whole reason for putting a system to sleep versus shutting
> > down is the time savings. Savings you do not get with hibernation
> > (especially with a lot of RAM.)
>
> Again, what do you do with those precious 10 to 18 seconds you save with
> sleep instead of hibernation? You'd think even a Maccie would get what
> he's been asked after it's been asked twice (three times now).
It's more like nearly a half-minute. I would've taken the iBook back had
it taken 30 seconds to wake from sleep. Thankfully, it's awake from
sleep by the time I open the screen.
When you have instant on, sleep becomes part of your routine. Anything
longer than a few seconds is distracting, annoying and downright
irritating.
>
> Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
I couldn't tell you, it always works on both my systems. However, if it
were not to work intermittantly, I wouldn't use it (like I never used
Hibernate on my Thinkpad, since it sometimes wouldn't work.)
>
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> > > >>
> > > >> See what I mean?
> > > >
> > > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
> > > >coming out of my mouth?"
> > >
> > > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
> >
> > Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial reply.
>
> No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
You convienently snipped your initial quote.
"Denial ain't just a river."
>
> I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you really
> ought to defy it.
Your powers of stereotyping amaze me. You should become a radio talk
show host!
>
> Edwin
>
>
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > > > The SCSI card it came with.
> > > >
> > > > IF it is an Adaptec SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM.
> > >
> > > Why didn't Apple provide the correct ROM at the time of purchase?
> >
> > Or why didn't Adaptec provide Apple with the correct ROM at the time of
> > assembly?
>
> So you don't believe it was Apple's responsibility to test their computers
> and verify that they work before they were shipped? You think Adaptec
> should have done that for Apple?
Hehe, chances are that the correct ROM wasn't available to Apple at time of
assembly, but is now.
I don't know, really.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > As usual, you snip the facts and insert your stupid comments.
> > >
> > > James had written: "about 10 seconds of that is the POST + memory
> > > testing at power on, the rest is streaming half a gig of data from
> > > the disk into ram."
> > >
> > > The PC isn't always going to have to stream a half a gig of data
> > > into RAM to come out of hibernation, so most of the time it's going
> > > to take considerably less than 30 seconds. Not that I expect you
> > > to understand.
> >
> > Hey Edwin. I have a PC, remember. I have used the feature. No matter
> > what I was doing, or what time during the day, or if it was a full
> > moon or not, the time was never 20 seconds.
>
> And you never bothered to keep track of what the computer was doing.
This is important, why? If I knew what it was doing, would it have been
faster?
> >And you yourself has told us that your computer waking
> > from sleep is about half a minute.
>
> I said less than a half a minute. You quoted me in another post. Now
> your selective memory is acting up again.
Just like your "less then half a minute" is "a few seconds" it's also
"about half a minute".
> >What are you trying to argue?
>
> You've been arguing with me without even knowing what the argument is
> about? Typical Sandman.
No no, what are YOU trying to argue? I am very clear on what I am arguing,
but you seem to be advocating hibernation for all the wrong reasons.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > > If you give me a time for a PC to wake from hibernation where
> > > > hibernation doesn't work.
> > > >
> > > > Geesh are you desperate or what. :)
> > >
> > > It is a common bug for sleep not to work on a Mac. There is no
> > > similar hibernation bug on PCs. I'm not surprised this issue was
> > > too complicated for you.
> >
> > Hibernation doesn't work on my 233Mhz Fujitsu.
>
> Does it have an OS that supports hibernation?
Does Win XP support hibernation?
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one second.
> > > You've got screen blanking confused with sleep.
> >
> > You are wrong and I am correct. I have a Mac laptop and you don't.
>
> You are wrong and dumb to think you can fool anyone.
Are you actually trying to claim that a Mac laptop won't wake from sleep in
about a second? I mean... Do I have to record it and send you a .mpg of it?
I can't understand why you feel compelled to call me a liar when you have
NO knowledge what so ever on the subject.
With this, do you mean that no PC laptop will wake from sleep in about a
second?
The fact that mac laptops wake instantaneously has been mentioned many
times in this newsgroup and shouldn't be news to anyone.
> > Why confine it only to "working"? Why not when I am using it? I open
> > and close the lid many times on a regular session, when I move from
> > one room to another, when I hand it over to my girlfriend so she can
> > check her mail, when I close it to take care of my son who is crying,
> > when I go upstairs in my home and so on... If I had to wait thirty
> > seconds everytime I wanted to open the lid, it would be very
> > frustrating.
>
> I can't see how you'd be doing all that other stuff and have it matter
> that you'd wait 30 seconds after you opened the laptop.
Then perhaps you are not a laptop user. I am, and I prefer not to wait when
I'm going to check my mail, check the TV lsitings of tonight ar what have
you. You are free to hibernate all you want, but I will be using my laptop
when you are waiting for it to "wake up".
> > Why do you think my laptops takes 10-20 seconds to wake from sleep?
> > I've already told you it takes one second, tops. When the lid is
> > opened and I can lay my eyes on the screen, the computer is fully
> > awake. Surely PC laptops are this quick aswell?
>
> Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and sleep.
*sigh* When you close the lid of a Mac laptop, it instantenously goes down
into deep sleep. Spins down the HDD and shuts everything down. Waking from
this state takes about a second on a Mac laptop. This is the truth and it's
a fact. You may want to support your position with some evidence if you
want to argue otherwise.
> > > > Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some,
> > > > but not for the reasons you are advocating.
> > >
> > > Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those.
> > > That's what I'm saying.
> >
> > And I am saying that's fine with me. Hibernation isn't a feature I
> > would use. I don't use it for my PC because waking fro mhibernation is
> > slower than booting the machine.
>
> Weird. You must have fscked it up.
Laughter, the "user error" retort, especially when my PC is brand new. Win
XP boots very fast, if you haven't noticed.
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Chrisr <cr...@bellatlantic.nospam.net> wrote:
Yes, if you count the time it takes to open all the apps, hibernation is
quicker, of course.
And your mac isn't a laptop, right? 5-10 seconds is forever.
--
Sandman[.net]
Tim Smith
> Of 10 to 18 seconds? Please tell us what use you put those valuable
> saved seconds to.
Do you feel the same way when looking at benchmark results, which almost
always involve much smaller amounts of time.
--Tim Smith
Edwin
> In article <a9fli4$2rk7o$1...@ID-56786.news.dfncis.de>,
> "Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
> > > > That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one second.
> > > > You've got screen blanking confused with sleep.
> > >
> > > You are wrong and I am correct. I have a Mac laptop and you don't.
> >
> > You are wrong and dumb to think you can fool anyone.
>
> Are you actually trying to claim that a Mac laptop won't wake from sleep
in
> about a second? I mean... Do I have to record it and send you a .mpg of
it?
> I can't understand why you feel compelled to call me a liar when you have
> NO knowledge what so ever on the subject.
Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and sleep.
> With this, do you mean that no PC laptop will wake from sleep in about a
> second?
>
> The fact that mac laptops wake instantaneously has been mentioned many
> times in this newsgroup and shouldn't be news to anyone.
Keep insisting you have hard disks that spin up "instantly." It's funny to
watch you make a fool of yourself.
I can always tell when I'm right when the argument comes down to me against
certain Maccies: you, C.Lund, Rick, and Alan Baker.
> > > Why confine it only to "working"? Why not when I am using it? I open
> > > and close the lid many times on a regular session, when I move from
> > > one room to another, when I hand it over to my girlfriend so she can
> > > check her mail, when I close it to take care of my son who is crying,
> > > when I go upstairs in my home and so on... If I had to wait thirty
> > > seconds everytime I wanted to open the lid, it would be very
> > > frustrating.
> >
> > I can't see how you'd be doing all that other stuff and have it matter
> > that you'd wait 30 seconds after you opened the laptop.
>
> Then perhaps you are not a laptop user. I am, and I prefer not to wait
when
> I'm going to check my mail, check the TV lsitings of tonight ar what have
> you. You are free to hibernate all you want, but I will be using my laptop
> when you are waiting for it to "wake up".
Not only am I a laptop user, I'm around lots of other laptop users. It
sounds like your laptop Mac is just a toy. You'll like a little kid who's
running around with a plaything, and who is impatient to keep playing.
> > > Why do you think my laptops takes 10-20 seconds to wake from sleep?
> > > I've already told you it takes one second, tops. When the lid is
> > > opened and I can lay my eyes on the screen, the computer is fully
> > > awake. Surely PC laptops are this quick aswell?
> >
> > Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and sleep.
>
> *sigh* When you close the lid of a Mac laptop, it instantenously goes down
> into deep sleep. Spins down the HDD and shuts everything down. Waking from
> this state takes about a second on a Mac laptop. This is the truth and
it's
> a fact. You may want to support your position with some evidence if you
> want to argue otherwise.
You just shot down your own argument. Hard disks don't spin up in a
second.
> > > > > Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for some,
> > > > > but not for the reasons you are advocating.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those.
> > > > That's what I'm saying.
> > >
> > > And I am saying that's fine with me. Hibernation isn't a feature I
> > > would use. I don't use it for my PC because waking fro mhibernation is
> > > slower than booting the machine.
> >
> > Weird. You must have fscked it up.
>
> Laughter, the "user error" retort, especially when my PC is brand new. Win
> XP boots very fast, if you haven't noticed.
Noticing you claiming the opposite? No wonder you're laughing at yourself.
Edwin
Edwin
"Tim Smith" <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:slrnabo0km.239...@localhost.localdomain...
Yes, I do. A big argument ensued about the need to apply Photoshop filters
by trial and error when I insisted a second faster in favor of the Mac
wasn't worth the extra price of the Mac.
Edwin
Edwin
Now you're changing your story: "My PC (P4/1.7) takes about 8-10 seconds to
wake from sleep and around 20 to wake from hibernation."
That's a difference of 10 to 12 seconds. What do you use that valuable
saved time for?
>I would've taken the iBook back had
> it taken 30 seconds to wake from sleep. Thankfully, it's awake from
> sleep by the time I open the screen.
Yet another Maccie who doesn't know the difference between screen blanking
and sleep!
> When you have instant on, sleep becomes part of your routine. Anything
> longer than a few seconds is distracting, annoying and downright
> irritating.
You don't have instant on. Stop changing your story and tell us the
wonderful use you put those extra 10 to 12 seconds to.
> >
> > Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
>
> I couldn't tell you, it always works on both my systems. However, if it
> were not to work intermittantly, I wouldn't use it (like I never used
> Hibernate on my Thinkpad, since it sometimes wouldn't work.)
I know Mac owners who have new machines where sleep never works in them,
period. Unlike PC buyers, they can't choose a different brand where it
does work.
> >
> > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> See what I mean?
> > > > >
> > > > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that
are
> > > > >coming out of my mouth?"
> > > >
> > > > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
> > >
> > > Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial
reply.
> >
> > No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
>
> You convienently snipped your initial quote.
I didn't snip anything.
> "Denial ain't just a river."
I said you were in denial. I didn't call you a dumass. You're the one who
initiated the insults.
Now you're in a fresh round of denial.
> >
> > I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you
really
> > ought to defy it.
>
> Your powers of stereotyping amaze me. You should become a radio talk
> show host!
Your ability to so completely live up to the stereotype of a Mac Advocate
amazes me. Especially in all the things you ran away from answering in
this post.
Edwin
Edwin
"Mike Dee" <emte...@BOUNCEoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:emteedee-C6F8D5...@news-vip.optusnet.com.au...
I went to the Apple Store. No choice of mice there. Just a one button
mouse included with Macs, no matter what kind of mouse you prefer.
> > "Why not let the people..." indeed!
>
> Why not, indeed. And you can stop slathering now Eddies.
You're a very queer individual, Mike.
Edwin
Edwin
No, it has a problem with sleep. That's a defect, not "works just fine."
>IF he has an Adaptec card in it and
> the computer doesn't sleep, then the card is BAD and needs to be fixed.
You're changing your story. You said the problem was the card needed an
updated ROM.
Why is Apple shipping computers with bad cards? Don't they test their
computers before shipment?
> >, idiot. It's up to them to make sure it works with
> > the parts they used. Apple supplied the card to B.B. in the Mac he
bought,
> > he didn't buy it from Adaptec and install it himself.
> >
> > Why don't you trying thinking before posting, Tim?
>
> Why don't you just try thinking, idiot?
I'll bet you wish you had a nickel for every time you've been told that.
Edwin
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > > > That's total bullshit. No Mac comes up from sleep in one
> > > > > second. You've got screen blanking confused with sleep.
> > > >
> > > > You are wrong and I am correct. I have a Mac laptop and you don't.
> > >
> > > You are wrong and dumb to think you can fool anyone.
> >
> > Are you actually trying to claim that a Mac laptop won't wake from
> > sleep in about a second? I mean... Do I have to record it and send you
> > a .mpg of it? I can't understand why you feel compelled to call me a
> > liar when you have NO knowledge what so ever on the subject.
>
> Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and sleep.
Oh stop this charade Edwin, Mac laptops wake from deep sleep in about a
second. This is a fact. I have no idea why you try to pretend you know
something about it when you clearly don't. :)
> > With this, do you mean that no PC laptop will wake from sleep in about
> > a second?
> >
> > The fact that mac laptops wake instantaneously has been mentioned many
> > times in this newsgroup and shouldn't be news to anyone.
>
> Keep insisting you have hard disks that spin up "instantly." It's
> funny to watch you make a fool of yourself.
It's a short "wrr" and it's up'n'running, from deep sleep. Before trying to
diss Macs, get to know them.
> I can always tell when I'm right when the argument comes down to me
> against certain Maccies: you, C.Lund, Rick, and Alan Baker.
*laughter* That's a good one, especiellay in this context, where you are
totally wrong. :)
> > > > Why confine it only to "working"? Why not when I am using it? I
> > > > open and close the lid many times on a regular session, when I
> > > > move from one room to another, when I hand it over to my
> > > > girlfriend so she can check her mail, when I close it to take care
> > > > of my son who is crying, when I go upstairs in my home and so
> > > > on... If I had to wait thirty seconds everytime I wanted to open
> > > > the lid, it would be very frustrating.
> > >
> > > I can't see how you'd be doing all that other stuff and have it
> > > matter that you'd wait 30 seconds after you opened the laptop.
> >
> > Then perhaps you are not a laptop user. I am, and I prefer not to wait
> > when I'm going to check my mail, check the TV lsitings of tonight ar
> > what have you. You are free to hibernate all you want, but I will be
> > using my laptop when you are waiting for it to "wake up".
>
> Not only am I a laptop user, I'm around lots of other laptop users. It
> sounds like your laptop Mac is just a toy. You'll like a little kid
> who's running around with a plaything, and who is impatient to keep
> playing.
*laughter* Your arguments are nowhere to be seen. :)
> > > > Why do you think my laptops takes 10-20 seconds to wake from
> > > > sleep? I've already told you it takes one second, tops. When the
> > > > lid is opened and I can lay my eyes on the screen, the computer is
> > > > fully awake. Surely PC laptops are this quick aswell?
> > >
> > > Again, you don't know the difference between screen blanking and
> > > sleep.
> >
> > *sigh* When you close the lid of a Mac laptop, it instantenously goes
> > down into deep sleep. Spins down the HDD and shuts everything down.
> > Waking from this state takes about a second on a Mac laptop. This is
> > the truth and it's a fact. You may want to support your position with
> > some evidence if you want to argue otherwise.
>
> You just shot down your own argument. Hard disks don't spin up in a
> second.
Man, get some -knowledge- on the subject. The harddrive on my mac laptop
spins up in about a second yes. What kind of lousy laptop harddrives have
you been exposed to?? I can't believe how you can argue a point when you
are so unbelievable wrong?
Perhaps you should actually use a Mac laptop some day? :)
This very phenomenom of Mac laptops waking from sleep pretty much
instaneously was mentioned by ZnU as late as -today- in
<znu-A41C71.0...@news.fu-berlin.de>
"Run OS X. Never turn it off.
Batteries last practically forever in sleep, and it'll wake up faster
than you can open the lid."
Do you think we Maccies get together on a private mailinglist to get our
Mac lies straight? :)
> > > > > > Granted, hibernation may very well have it's benefits for
> > > > > > some, but not for the reasons you are advocating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, hibernation has benefits, and no Mac owner can have those.
> > > > > That's what I'm saying.
> > > >
> > > > And I am saying that's fine with me. Hibernation isn't a feature I
> > > > would use. I don't use it for my PC because waking fro
> > > > mhibernation is slower than booting the machine.
> > >
> > > Weird. You must have fscked it up.
> >
> > Laughter, the "user error" retort, especially when my PC is brand new.
> > Win XP boots very fast, if you haven't noticed.
>
> Noticing you claiming the opposite? No wonder you're laughing at
> yourself.
Where did I claim that XP boots slowly? I said it wakes from hibernation
slower than it does booting it from scratch. And on my PC it does.
Well Edwin, this has been one of those amusing threads where you stubbornly
argue something you are 100% wrong about. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > I would've taken the iBook back had
> > it taken 30 seconds to wake from sleep. Thankfully, it's awake from
> > sleep by the time I open the screen.
>
> Yet another Maccie who doesn't know the difference between screen blanking
> and sleep!
*laughter* That's the way, Edwin! Keep insisting that, and you'll see it'll
all feel better soon enough! :)
Mmmm, how I love my Mac laptop that wakes from -sleep- in about one second,
when other are stuck with "under half a minute" to wake from hibernation. :)
--
Sandman[.net]
Tim Adams
wrote on 4/16/02 11:44 AM:
Your computer works when it's in sleep mode?
>
>> IF he has an Adaptec card in it and
>> the computer doesn't sleep, then the card is BAD and needs to be fixed.
>
> You're changing your story. You said the problem was the card needed an
> updated ROM.
Which is want make the card bad.
>
> Why is Apple shipping computers with bad cards? Don't they test their
> computers before shipment?
The cards work just fine. They did however have a problem with the rom that
caused the computer to not sleep.
>
>>> , idiot. It's up to them to make sure it works with
>>> the parts they used. Apple supplied the card to B.B. in the Mac he
> bought,
>>> he didn't buy it from Adaptec and install it himself.
>>>
>>> Why don't you trying thinking before posting, Tim?
>>
>> Why don't you just try thinking, idiot?
>
> I'll bet you wish you had a nickel for every time you've been told that.
Don't you ever get tired of proving to people just how really stupid you
are? I ask for entertainment purposes only.
>
> Edwin
>
>
Edwin
My remarks weren't directed at him.
Edwin
Edwin
Then Apple should have applied changes on their end to accomodate whatever
ROM was in the Adaptec card.
> I don't know, really.
Nothing new about that.
Edwin
Edwin
Sure. Doesn't yours?
>
> >
> >> IF he has an Adaptec card in it and
> >> the computer doesn't sleep, then the card is BAD and needs to be fixed.
> >
> > You're changing your story. You said the problem was the card needed an
> > updated ROM.
>
> Which is want make the card bad.
No, that makes the firmware out of date. Defects make the card bad.
>
> >
> > Why is Apple shipping computers with bad cards? Don't they test their
> > computers before shipment?
>
> The cards work just fine. They did however have a problem with the rom
that
> caused the computer to not sleep.
Then Apple should have found that during their testing, before they shipped
the Macs.
>
> >
> >>> , idiot. It's up to them to make sure it works with
> >>> the parts they used. Apple supplied the card to B.B. in the Mac he
> > bought,
> >>> he didn't buy it from Adaptec and install it himself.
> >>>
> >>> Why don't you trying thinking before posting, Tim?
> >>
> >> Why don't you just try thinking, idiot?
> >
> > I'll bet you wish you had a nickel for every time you've been told that.
>
> Don't you ever get tired of proving to people just how really stupid you
> are?
I'll bet you wish you had a nickel for every time you've been told that.
> I ask for entertainment purposes only.
Laughs at your expense.
>
> >
> > Edwin
> >
> >
>
Edwin
--
But I do not represent any
normal computer user. -- Sandman
"Tim Adams" <tea...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:B8E10716.47F60%tea...@attbi.com...
You mean it looks like you were jumping to conclusions, and that you're full
of hot air.
I accept your silent apology.
Edwin
Brian Lewis
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
As everyone keeps saying, you do not know what you're talking about. By
the time I've opened up the laptop, it's awake from sleep. Sleep is
indicated by the pulsing sleep light.
>
> > When you have instant on, sleep becomes part of your routine. Anything
> > longer than a few seconds is distracting, annoying and downright
> > irritating.
>
> You don't have instant on. Stop changing your story and tell us the
> wonderful use you put those extra 10 to 12 seconds to.
I use them to get back to work on the laptop. To grab whatever piece of
info I needed to wake the laptop for.
And yes, I do have instant on.
>
> > >
> > > Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
> >
> > I couldn't tell you, it always works on both my systems. However, if it
> > were not to work intermittantly, I wouldn't use it (like I never used
> > Hibernate on my Thinkpad, since it sometimes wouldn't work.)
>
> I know Mac owners who have new machines where sleep never works in them,
> period. Unlike PC buyers, they can't choose a different brand where it
> does work.
Hold on now, didn't you insist that PC's never had that problem? Why
would someone need to choose a brand that does work, if they all do?
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> See what I mean?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that
> are
> > > > > >coming out of my mouth?"
> > > > >
> > > > > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
> > > >
> > > > Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial
> reply.
> > >
> > > No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
> >
> > You convienently snipped your initial quote.
>
> I didn't snip anything.
>
> > "Denial ain't just a river."
>
> I said you were in denial. I didn't call you a dumass. You're the one who
> initiated the insults.
And I never called you a dumbass either.
>
> Now you're in a fresh round of denial.
And there you go again.
>
> > >
> > > I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you
> really
> > > ought to defy it.
> >
> > Your powers of stereotyping amaze me. You should become a radio talk
> > show host!
>
> Your ability to so completely live up to the stereotype of a Mac Advocate
> amazes me. Especially in all the things you ran away from answering in
> this post.
Such as?
>
> Edwin
>
>
Brian Lewis
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
In other words, they were irrelevent.
>
> Edwin
>
>
Brian Lewis
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> "Brian Lewis" <supe...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:superbri-845D41...@clmboh1-nws3.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <d3qkbuk16cie66v9g...@4ax.com>,
> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:05:15 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article <7ajkbu0ehm69n8haj...@4ax.com>,
> > > > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:38:02 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >In article <gmnjbuok2a6971gmc...@4ax.com>,
> > > >> > Edwin <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:41:25 GMT, Brian Lewis <supe...@mac.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >In article <0qljbuoqqpelrnsrg...@4ax.com>,
No, I provided another example supporting the same subect.
>
> >Since you proclaim that Windows has no
> > problems with Adaptec SCSI (of which you are so wrong to generalize,)
>
> I don't believe I'm wrong. You wouldn't have changed the subject if I were.
You are.
>
> >I
> > merely point out another example.
>
> You merely change the subject!
Incorrect, simply provided another example supporting the same subject -
that being sleep incompatibility.
>
> > You really don't want to go down the
> > incompatibility road.
>
> Because it embarrasses Mac owners?
Hardly.
>
> > You really don't.
>
> I didn't. I bought a PC instead of a Mac. No SCSI compatibility problems
> for me.
You don't have SCSI do you?
You simply get back to work. Whether it was just pulling up a contact,
or finishing a thought. You instantly get back to work.
Imagine if every time you took your car out of park, you had to wait 20
- 30 seconds to start driving again?
> Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
The same thing PC users do when they're hibernated PC's restart instead
of resume. They yell at the computer and move on with life.
>
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
> > > >>
> > > >> See what I mean?
> > > >
> > > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
> > > >coming out of my mouth?"
> > >
> > > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
> >
> > Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial reply.
>
> No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
Of which you missed your proclamation that "Denial ain't just a river."
>
> I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you really
> ought to defy it.
>
> Edwin
>
>
Mike Dee
"Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
[even more ranting looney Edwin-speak snipped]
> > They do choose. It comes with their Mac just how they want it to.
>
> I went to the Apple Store. No choice of mice there. Just a one button
> mouse included with Macs, no matter what kind of mouse you prefer.
See. You're beginning to flap those arms about Edwin. Take some asprin
and lie down for half an hour.
Next thing, you'll be regurgitating the loss of floppy drives in the Mac.
> > > "Why not let the people..." indeed!
> >
> > Why not, indeed. And you can stop slathering now Eddies.
>
> You're a very queer individual, Mike.
Then "swallow harder" Eddies. LoL!
D.
----
Go suck a goat. -- "Edwin"; Re: Mozilla breaks standards.
Tim Adams
wrote on 4/16/02 6:41 PM:
No jumping to conclusions. I know that there WAS a problem with the ROM on
some Adaptec SCAI cards. I told him IF he had an Adaptec card to upgrade the
ROM.
>
> I accept your silent apology.
Why should I apology for your shit? Not likely.
>
> Edwin
>
>
Tim Adams
Brian Lewis at supe...@mac.com wrote on 4/16/02 8:09 PM:
90% of what the idiot edwin posts is irrelevant. The other 10% just off
topic BS.
>
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>>
Edwin
wrote:
>In article <a9hip0$36ad0$1...@ID-56786.news.dfncis.de>,
I expected you to get that wrong, because you're a Mac Advocate. The
stereotype fits you like a glove.
Edwin
--------------
"BONK" -- Rick
Edwin
wrote:
Since the subject was Adaptec SCSI cards, you changed the subject by
mentioning ASUS motherboards.
>>
>> >Since you proclaim that Windows has no
>> > problems with Adaptec SCSI (of which you are so wrong to generalize,)
>>
>> I don't believe I'm wrong. You wouldn't have changed the subject if I were.
>
>You are.
Reread above.
>>
>> >I
>> > merely point out another example.
>>
>> You merely change the subject!
>
>Incorrect, simply provided another example supporting the same subject -
>that being sleep incompatibility.
The subject was incompatibility in Adaptec SCSI cards. You changed
the subject to ASUS motherboards. You can't install those in a Mac.
The subject was the Adaptec card has problems in a Mac, but no
problems in a PC.
>>
>> > You really don't want to go down the
>> > incompatibility road.
>>
>> Because it embarrasses Mac owners?
>
>Hardly.
Denial ain't just a river.
>>
>> > You really don't.
>>
>> I didn't. I bought a PC instead of a Mac. No SCSI compatibility problems
>> for me.
>
>You don't have SCSI do you?
Sure I do.
How would waiting an extra 10 - 12 seconds impede that? Do you have a
very short attention span?
>Imagine if every time you took your car out of park, you had to wait 20
>- 30 seconds to start driving again?
Why don't you just answer the question I asked you? Is there a law
that Mac advocates must always offer up lame and false car analogies
whenever they defend the Mac?
>> Then tell us what the Maccies do when sleep fails to work on their Macs.
>
>The same thing PC users do when they're hibernated PC's restart instead
>of resume. They yell at the computer and move on with life.
I have yet to see a PC where hibernation fails. I know of Macs with
sleep problems, though.
>>
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> >Dumass wasn't just an author!
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> I imagine your posts often invoke that response.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >Your posts however, tend to leave nothing to the imagination.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> See what I mean?
>> > > >
>> > > >To quote the great Chris Tucker - "Do you understand the words that are
>> > > >coming out of my mouth?"
>> > >
>> > > No, it's all goofy BS coming out of your mouth.
>> >
>> > Hey now, you started with the personal attacks from your initial reply.
>>
>> No I didn't. That was you: "Dumass wasn't just an author!"
>
>Of which you missed your proclamation that "Denial ain't just a river."
Saying you're in denial isn't a personal attack. But then, as a Mac
advocate, you take license to spin anything and everything to suit
yourself.
>>
>> I know there's an unwritten law that Mac advocates must lie, but you really
>> ought to defy it.
Edwin
--------------
"BONK" -- Rick
Edwin
<emte...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>In article <a9hgi9$38vf2$1...@ID-56786.news.dfncis.de>,
> "Edwin" <ze...@aiur.org> wrote:
>
[toilet flush]
Yawn.
Edwin
You jumped to the conclusion that the need for a firmware upgrade was
the source of his sleep problem. You didn't say "maybe you have to
upgrade the Adaptec firmware," you flatly stated: "IF it is an Adaptec
SCSI card, contact Adaptec and get an updated ROM."
You were wrong.
>
>>
>> I accept your silent apology.
>
>Why should I apology for your shit? Not likely.
Not likely that you have the balls to admit to being wrong and to
apologize to others for insulting them even though you were wrong? I
believe you.
Edwin
That means oh so much coming from a nasty little toad like you.
Thanks for posting it.