Apology to csma
Snit
time. Once Steve admitted to at least two of his big lies, I stopped
responding to him.
I admit full responsibility for my actions. I gave in to Steve's games and
posted the following comments to him
----- Start Quotes -----
I have been mostly ignoring your posts, but I will humor you with two
questions, which if your hold to your pattern, you will run from:
1) Do you deny you referred to gay couples with children as "parasitic"?
2) Do you deny that you refused to rescind that claim even when it was
explained to you why it was offensive and inaccurate?
I know you tried to weasel your way out of your comments in the past, but
can you answer those questions now?
----- End Quotes -----
As predicted, Steve *still* has not answered the questions, even though he
has posted to me over a dozen times to me - with me asking the same
questions!
He has gone into full spin mode and has stated that he answered the
questions. He has not. He will not. Steve will simply continue to lie, no
matter how many times I, or anyone, asks him these questions.
Still, knowing that Steve will never be honest, I should have just let it
drop. It took him a year to admit to his dishonest semantic games where he
pretended to not understand the context of how I used the word "guilty". He
did more quickly admit to his other lie of posting as "John", but has since
gone into denial mode on that one. (see these two threads:
http://snipurl.com/a54w and http://snipurl.com/a2wt )
It is not worth the time or effort to get Steve to talk about or admit to
his bigotry. The topic has been covered well, and Steve has never been able
to offer an honest reason for his bigoted comments against multiple groups.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
Alan Baker
Just shut up.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Snit
alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
> Snit,
>
> Just shut up.
When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
will.
I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
part.
Alan Baker
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
> alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
>
> > Snit,
> >
> > Just shut up.
>
> When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
> will.
>
> I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
> part.
No.
Just shut up.
Period.
Snit
> In article <BDC02260.1238D%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>,
> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
>
>> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
>> alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
>>
>>> Snit,
>>>
>>> Just shut up.
>>
>> When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
>> will.
>>
>> I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
>> part.
>
> No.
>
> Just shut up.
>
> Period.
Why don't you set the example.
Edwin
> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
> alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
>
>> Snit,
>>
>> Just shut up.
>
> When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
> will.
>
> I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
> part.
The worst troll this NG has ever seen is playing the part of the victim...
you can almost hear the violins playing in the background as he whines...
hilarious...
Steve Carroll
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
He apologizes to the NG today, yet, he's still trolling today. Amazingly, he
actually thinks he is fooling people:)
--
Steve C
Edwin
I sometimes wonder if he doesn't fool himself more than he tries to fool
others...
Elijah Baley
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:28:43 GMT, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
> > In article <76owyod5w89c$.1cr0zlg9mv5a1$.d...@40tude.net>,
> > Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:32:16 -0700, Snit wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
> >>> alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
> >>>
> >>>> Snit,
> >>>>
> >>>> Just shut up.
> >>>
> >>> When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
> >>> will.
> >>>
> >>> I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
> >>> part.
> >>
> >> The worst troll this NG has ever seen is playing the part of the victim...
> >> you can almost hear the violins playing in the background as he whines...
> >> hilarious...
> >
> > He apologizes to the NG today, yet, he's still trolling today. Amazingly,
> > he
> > actually thinks he is fooling people:)
>
> I sometimes wonder if he doesn't fool himself more than he tries to fool
> others...
If there's ever been a better example of a sociopath than this Snit
character I haven't seen one.
Snit
lije-2542BD.2...@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com on 11/17/04 7:59 PM:
Hmmmm, I do not remember pointing out any trolling by you... so what is your
support for your claim.
Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
psychological counseling.
Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
ed
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> typed:
<snip>
> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
> number
> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses
> of life better than average
ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say that
you "handle the stresses of life better than average"? than the average
what?
Jeff Hoppe
>
> Hmmmm, I do not remember pointing out any trolling by you... so what is your
> support for your claim.
>
> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
> better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
> psychological counseling.
>
> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
What has your medical condition have to do with any of this? Are you
trying to find an excuse for your behavior via your condition? Are you
blaming your behavior on your condition? Are you trying to prove that
you're somewhat mentally stable? Or not?
This is a Macintosh Advocacy newsgroup. Not a 12-step recovery plan.
Your medical problems or conditions won't help me achieve a greater
understanding of my Mac. In fact, it detracts from it and those kinds
of discussions have no place in a newsgroup such as this.
Trolls don't have to be frequent visitors who bash the Macintosh
platform in order to start a heated flame war -- they're frequent
visitors who consistently take part in meaningless, off-topic
discussions whose tone swings between offensive and defensive often:
something you've demonstrated twice in your last post alone.
Talk about your Mac, or lack thereof, and try to stay on-topic please.
Tim Adams
"ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> In news:BDC16030.1253C%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID,
> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> typed:
> <snip>
> > Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
> > number
> > of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses
> > of life better than average
>
> ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say that
> you "handle the stresses of life better than average"? than the average
> what?
Thats an easy one. Better then the average sociopath of course.
>
> > , am well adjusted, and am in no need of
> > any
> > psychological counseling.
> >
> > Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
--
Tim
Snit
M5Wmd.22678$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com on 11/17/04 10:06 PM:
>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number of
>> professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
>> better than average
>
> ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say that
> you "handle the stresses of life better than average"?
Yes. Very much so. Are you asking because you want to learn about anxiety
disorders? If so, I am happy to help educate you.
> than the average what?
Person. What did you think, chimp? :)
>
>> , am well adjusted, and am in no need of any psychological counseling.
>>
>> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>
>
--
Snit
2004111723352187903%judas@nospammyspamcom on 11/17/04 10:35 PM:
> On 2004-11-17 21:08:16 -0600, Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
>
>>
>> Hmmmm, I do not remember pointing out any trolling by you... so what is your
>> support for your claim.
>>
>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
>> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
>> better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
>> psychological counseling.
>>
>> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>
> What has your medical condition have to do with any of this?
Directly: nothing.
Indirectly: lots. It is what has lead me to going to psychologists and
other mental health care professionals in order to manage my symptoms.
While I have seen a number of professionals throughout the years, in each
case they have come to the conclusions that I state... which are in direct
contradiction to the comments I was in reference to...
> Are you trying to find an excuse for your behavior via your condition?
No, as no excuse is needed.
> Are you blaming your behavior on your condition?
Most certainly not.
> Are you trying to prove that you're somewhat mentally stable?
Hmmm, I suppose that may be partly it... mostly just shoving data back at a
troll to see how he reacts.
When people make claims about sanity, or in this case calls me a
"sociopath", I have more data than most to be able to show the person wrong.
Really, though, the troll is not looking for data, they are looking to
insult... and often looking to deflect from themselves and to obfuscate
their own actions...
> Or not?
>
> This is a Macintosh Advocacy newsgroup. Not a 12-step recovery plan.
> Your medical problems or conditions won't help me achieve a greater
> understanding of my Mac. In fact, it detracts from it and those kinds
> of discussions have no place in a newsgroup such as this.
Wow... you have gone off on to some really odd tangent here.
>
> Trolls don't have to be frequent visitors who bash the Macintosh
> platform in order to start a heated flame war -- they're frequent
> visitors who consistently take part in meaningless, off-topic
> discussions whose tone swings between offensive and defensive often:
> something you've demonstrated twice in your last post alone.
Fair enough. If you define trolling as talking about off topic concepts...
most regulars in csma are trolls.
>
> Talk about your Mac, or lack thereof, and try to stay on-topic please.
Fair enough request... but not one that fits with the history of csma.
Wally
----------
In article <BDC16030.1253C%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
<SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
<snip>
> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
> better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
> psychological counseling.
Nice going, you get "a number of professionals" to agree that you handle the
stresses of life better than the average person whilst *NOT* giving you
psychological counseling! makes you wonder how they knew.........doesn't it?
hahahahahahah
Did they happen to explain how you were handling the stresses better than
the average person, given that the average person doesn't have an anxiety
disorder and never needs to seek such advice from "a number of
professionals"?
>
> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
Ahhhh, trolls........of course!
Steve Carroll
"Wally" <wa...@wally.world.net> wrote:
> ----------
> In article <BDC16030.1253C%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
> <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
> > of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
> > better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
> > psychological counseling.
>
> Nice going, you get "a number of professionals" to agree that you handle the
> stresses of life better than the average person whilst *NOT* giving you
> psychological counseling! makes you wonder how they knew.........doesn't it?
> hahahahahahah
ROTFLMAO!
> Did they happen to explain how you were handling the stresses better than
> the average person, given that the average person doesn't have an anxiety
> disorder and never needs to seek such advice from "a number of
> professionals"?
Geezus... you're killin' me:)
> >
> > Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>
> Ahhhh, trolls........of course!
--
Steve C
Snit
%14nd.4717493$ic1.4...@news.easynews.com on 11/18/04 9:25 AM:
>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
>> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
>> better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
>> psychological counseling.
>
> Nice going, you get "a number of professionals" to agree that you handle the
> stresses of life better than the average person whilst *NOT* giving you
> psychological counseling! makes you wonder how they knew.........doesn't it?
> hahahahahahah
Hmmm, interesting trolling technique there, Wally.
So, how do you think you know what has gone on in private sessions? Really?
And how do you think you have any expertise to override their conclusions?
Your armchair psychology does not impress me, not even a little.
Really, Wally, I would love to have you explain your little trolling here.
> Did they happen to explain how you were handling the stresses better than
> the average person, given that the average person doesn't have an anxiety
> disorder and never needs to seek such advice from "a number of
> professionals"?
Do you really want to gain a better understanding of anxiety disorders? I
know csma is not the forum, but since Steve Carroll in his ignorance and
bigotry brought the topic up, I am happy to have such a discussion *if* the
people I am discussing it with are not simply looking to troll.
You, Wally, have a long way to go to convince me you have any other purpose
in your questions. Still, even if I am not looking to talk to you, if you
want to know more about anxiety disorders and have your questions answered
not just by people with such health concerns but by professionals in the
field, please visit alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated. The moderated
nature of that forum minimizes or reduces such trolling as you seem to want
to push here.
If you really want answers to your question, post there. If you ISP does
not offer access, alt.support.anxiety-panic would be a reasonable place to
go as well, though as an unmoderated forum there is trolling.
>>
>> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>
> Ahhhh, trolls........of course!
Well, it clearly describes you... look at your comments, above. You clearly
are trolling here, as you have been trolling in the past. Want more support
of your trolling: I, unlike the trolls in csma who make similar accusations
against me, am happy to provide support for my claims - support that
included quotes directly from you.
Elizabot v2.0.2
So this is an apology in *your* opinion?
--
By responding to Elizabot v2.0.2 you implicitly agree to the TOS at:
http://elizabot.spymac.net/
Elizabot v2.0.2
> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
> alangbaker-ECBE4...@news.telus.net on 11/17/04 1:47 AM:
>
>
>>In article <BDC02260.1238D%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>,
>>Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
>>>alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Snit,
>>>>
>>>>Just shut up.
>>>
>>>When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
>>>will.
>>>
>>>I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
>>>part.
>>
>>No.
>>
>>Just shut up.
>>
>>Period.
>
>
> Why don't you set the example.
Oh, come on, Snit. Quit being such a girl.
Elizabot v2.0.2
Sometimes wonder?
Elizabot v2.0.2
> In news:BDC16030.1253C%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID,
> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> typed:
> <snip>
>
>>Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
>>number
>>of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses
>>of life better than average
>
>
> ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say that
> you "handle the stresses of life better than average"? than the average
> what?
Better than the average person institutionalized in a psychiatric
hospital, I assume.
>
>>, am well adjusted, and am in no need of
>>any
>>psychological counseling.
>>
>>Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>
>
>
ed
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> typed:
> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote in post
> M5Wmd.22678$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com on 11/17/04 10:06 PM:
>
>
>>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
>>> number of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the
>>> stresses of life better than average
>>
>> ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say
>> that
>> you "handle the stresses of life better than average"?
>
> Yes. Very much so. Are you asking because you want to learn about
> anxiety disorders? If so, I am happy to help educate you.
yes, i am truly curious. it seems oxymoronic that someone who gets panic
attacks over everyday simple things can be considered to handle stress
better than the average person.
i.e. from your website:
http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/anxiety/data/stories/real_life/ap-r-aw.html
someone thinking a "bruise" on their skin is a sure sign of their blood
vessels rupturing and that they were going to die doesn't sound like someone
reacting well to the stresses of life better than the average person (also
keeping in mind this particular case of stress was because of your own
apparent hypochodria).
>> than the average what?
>
> Person. What did you think, chimp? :)
than, say, the average person that gets panic attacks and has anxiety.
Edwin
Hey, what are you doing here after you were "outed" by Snit? ;-)
Andrew J. Brehm
And he actually manages to unite everybody else.
How often does it happen that Edwin and the Mac users here agree on who
is a troll?
--
Andrew J. Brehm
Marx Brothers Fan
PowerPC User
Supporter of Chicken Pizza
Snit
> In news:BDC206B0.125D0%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID,
> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> typed:
>> "ed" <ne...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote in post
>> M5Wmd.22678$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com on 11/17/04 10:06 PM:
>>
>>
>>>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a
>>>> number of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the
>>>> stresses of life better than average
>>>
>>> ummm, can you really have anxiety disorder and panic attacks and say that
>>> you "handle the stresses of life better than average"?
>>
>> Yes. Very much so. Are you asking because you want to learn about
>> anxiety disorders? If so, I am happy to help educate you.
>
> yes, i am truly curious. it seems oxymoronic that someone who gets panic
> attacks over everyday simple things can be considered to handle stress
> better than the average person.
>
> i.e. from your website:
> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/anxiety/data/stories/real_life/ap-r-aw.html
> someone thinking a "bruise" on their skin is a sure sign of their blood
> vessels rupturing and that they were going to die doesn't sound like someone
> reacting well to the stresses of life better than the average person (also
> keeping in mind this particular case of stress was because of your own
> apparent hypochodria).
Keep in mind that I was already in the midst of an anxiety attack. In
general, I, and many people with anxiety disorders have a lower startle
response than the norm, and handle life's stresses as well as other people
without anxiety disorders (this may be less true for people with generalized
anxiety).
Think of it this way:
Say every time you walked out your front door an 800 pound gorilla punched
you in the stomach. Soon, not only would walking out the door lead to
anxiety, even thinking of doing so would lead to anxiety. For many, even
seeing hair or other related events might lead to anxiety...
The same is true for many people with anxiety disorders, but the 800 gorilla
is not something external, it is internal. For whatever reason (and the
reasons vary from person to person) the anxiety system will *sometimes* go
haywire... people who have had anxiety disorders who have also been in wars
or other hellish situations will often say nothing compares to a bad anxiety
attack as far as the level of anxiety felt. I have known someone with an
anxiety disorders who, before he started having attacks, was a test pilot
and avid mountain climber. I have known others who have gone through wars
and tell stories of dealing with situations where few people would be able
to maintain their heads... but they did (I cannot say if I would... luckily
I have never been in such a situation). I can say that an anxiety attack is
an absolutely horrible experience to go through.
Anxiety disorders, at least often, are not an indication of an individual
dealing poorly with anxiety any more than someone with chronic pain is
someone who deals with pain poorly. If anything, one would expect someone
who has dealt with chronic pain to handle pain better than the norm...
though one could push the analogy too far.
Often anxiety disorders are combined with depression, alcoholism and other
forms of "self medication", and many lead to different forms of phobias,
especially agoraphobia. It makes sense for anyone with an anxiety disorder
to be seen by a psychiatrist or other mental health professional, if for no
other reason than to rule out these other often seen combinations and to
help the person deal better with the anxiety the disorders brings. In my
case I have been seen by a number of different professionals through out the
years - I have been open to having that part of my health looked at. I have
gone through a battery of tests and consistently it has been found that I
handle the stress quite well. Even when I was struggling with a phobia, I
was handling it well and managed to eliminate it on my own. This may be in
part from my personal background in psychological health methods (I have a
degree in psychology). I understand the basics of overcoming such things,
and applied the techniques on myself.
So to get back to the question, yes, someone with an anxiety disorder can
handle general stressors as well or better than the average person, though
there may be specific areas where this is not true. A common area is bodily
sensations... which I am prone to as well - so I do have some level of
hypochondriac tendencies (which is not the same as being a true
hypochondriac). This may be caused by a reaction to past attacks, but it
also may be from an autonomic nervous system that does not filter out
internal signals well. As an example, I can almost always feel my heart
beating, and can often feel other internal sensations that most people do
not. I have known people with anxiety disorders who can hear the blood
pumping in their ears... which makes sense: the sound is loud enough for
"normal" people to hear, but it is "filtered out" in most (technically the
term filtering is not 100% accurate, but close enough). Others are aware of
there blind spots... etc.
None of this implies that the person can not handle normal life stressors
well. In order to cope with the disorder, many people, myself included,
learn breathing exercises or other methods of handling the stress. Perhaps
partially from that, I generally do not react strongly to day to day stress,
and most people who I know in day to day life are shocked to hear I have an
anxiety disorder. As I have said before, I do not have a heightened startle
response, and, if anything, am harder to startle... or at least react less
than most do in "startling" situations (loud noises and the like).
The most common phobia in the US is fear of speaking in front of people...
this rates higher than even the fear of death or the fear of heights. What
do I do for a living - in addition to one on one consulting, I also teach
classes... a form of public speaking. I am very comfortable in front of
groups, esp. if I am speaking about a topic I am familiar with.
With all this being said, I truly hope you are not looking to grab things
from the above to attack - as Steve and perhaps some others in csma most
certainly will. Oh, and I wrote the above during commercial breaks while
watching TV, so I can certainly understand if you need clarification. :)
>
>>> than the average what?
>>
>> Person. What did you think, chimp? :)
>
> than, say, the average person that gets panic attacks and has anxiety.
I would say I handle stress better than the average person, and would assume
I handle it better than the average person with an anxiety disorder.
ed
that analogy, does not provide anything in terms of clarity. =D if being
unable to handle something internal is supposed to show that someone w/
anxiety can handle stress as well as someone w/out anxity disorders, you
need to come up w/ a much, much better analogy.
> For whatever
> reason (and the reasons vary from person to person) the anxiety
> system will *sometimes* go haywire... people who have had anxiety
> disorders who have also been in wars or other hellish situations will
> often say nothing compares to a bad anxiety attack as far as the
> level of anxiety felt. I have known someone with an anxiety
> disorders who, before he started having attacks, was a test pilot
> and avid mountain climber.
so when he didn't have an anxiety disorder he was a test pilot and mountain
climber , and now that he does, he doesn't/can't do those things anymore?
that's supposed to support you're point, how? =D
> I have known others who have gone through
> wars and tell stories of dealing with situations where few people
> would be able
> to maintain their heads... but they did (I cannot say if I would...
> luckily
> I have never been in such a situation). I can say that an anxiety
> attack is an absolutely horrible experience to go through.
>
> Anxiety disorders, at least often, are not an indication of an
> individual dealing poorly with anxiety
it's the fact that they have anxiety to begin with in situations that
"normal" people wouldn't ; i.e. they're stressed out by things that others
deal w/ normally (from the adaa page).
> any more than someone with
> chronic pain is someone who deals with pain poorly. If anything, one
> would expect someone who has dealt with chronic pain to handle pain
> better than the norm...
> though one could push the analogy too far.
that analogy seems like you've already pushed it too far- it seems like a
nonstarter- you're trying to say that you expect someone w/ anxiety disorder
handles anxiety better than those w/out it, ignoring the fact that the
problem is the existence of the anxiety in those situations to begin with.
(from the adaa page)
> Often anxiety disorders are combined with depression, alcoholism and
> other forms of "self medication", and many lead to different forms of
> phobias, especially agoraphobia. It makes sense for anyone with an
> anxiety disorder to be seen by a psychiatrist or other mental health
> professional, if for no other reason than to rule out these other
> often seen combinations and to
> help the person deal better with the anxiety the disorders brings.
> In my case I have been seen by a number of different professionals
> through out the years - I have been open to having that part of my
> health looked at. I have gone through a battery of tests and
> consistently it has been found that I handle the stress quite well.
the very definitions of these types of disorders suggest otherwise:
generalized anxiety disorder- " The essential characteristic of Generalized
Anxiety Disorder is excessive uncontrollable worry about everyday things. "
sure sounds like having this disorder and generally handling stress well are
mutually exclusive.
panic disorder- " People with panic disorder suffer severe attacks of
panic-which may make them feel like they are having a heart attack or are
going crazy-for no apparent reason. " also sounds like having this disorder
and generally handling stress well are mutually exclusive.
http://www.adaa.org/AnxietyDisorderInfor/OverviewAnxDis.cfm
> Even when I was struggling with a phobia, I was handling it well and
> managed to eliminate it on my own. This may be in part from my
> personal background in psychological health methods (I have a degree
> in psychology). I understand the basics of overcoming such things,
> and applied the techniques on myself.
then you should know self-treatment is frowned upon in psychology. =D
> So to get back to the question, yes, someone with an anxiety disorder
> can handle general stressors as well or better than the average
> person, though there may be specific areas where this is not true.
it sounds like this is not the case based on the very definitions of the
disorders.
> A
> common area is bodily sensations... which I am prone to as well - so
> I do have some level of hypochondriac tendencies (which is not the
> same as being a true hypochondriac).
yeah, you're only partly crazy. =D
> This may be caused by a
> reaction to past attacks, but it also may be from an autonomic
> nervous system that does not filter out internal signals well. As an
> example, I can almost always feel my heart beating, and can often
> feel other internal sensations that most people do not. I have known
> people with anxiety disorders who can hear the blood pumping in their
> ears... which makes sense: the sound is loud enough for "normal"
> people to hear, but it is "filtered out" in most (technically the
> term filtering is not 100% accurate, but close enough). Others are
> aware of there blind spots... etc.
what makes you think normal people can't feel their heart beating, hear
their blood pumping, aren't aware of their blind spots, etc?
> None of this implies that the person can not handle normal life
> stressors well. In order to cope with the disorder, many people,
> myself included, learn breathing exercises or other methods of
> handling the stress. Perhaps partially from that, I generally do not
> react strongly to day to day stress, and most people who I know in
> day to day life are shocked to hear I have an anxiety disorder.
and what causes the other people to NOT be shocked? that's probably the
part that needs examining!
> As I
> have said before, I do not have a heightened startle response, and,
> if anything, am harder to startle... or at least react less than most
> do in "startling" situations (loud noises and the like).
>
> The most common phobia in the US is fear of speaking in front of
> people... this rates higher than even the fear of death or the fear
> of heights.
are you talking phobias, or fears? you're using the terms interchangeably,
and they are very different things. i.e. i have a very definate fear of
heights, but not a phobia- being able to deal w/ it, i used to be a very
avid skydiver and go rock climbing somewhat frequently.
> What do I do for a living - in addition to one on one
> consulting, I also teach classes... a form of public speaking.
i've found teaching classes and consulting is very different than general
public speaking; when in those situations, you are in a position of
authority, which is very different than speaking in front of peers.
> I am
> very comfortable in front of groups, esp. if I am speaking about a
> topic I am familiar with.
good, want a cookie? =D
Wally
----------
In article <BDC22339.125FC%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
<SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
> "Wally" <wa...@wally.world.net> wrote in post
> %14nd.4717493$ic1.4...@news.easynews.com on 11/18/04 9:25 AM:
>
>>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
>>> of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
>>> better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
>>> psychological counseling.
>>
>> Nice going, you get "a number of professionals" to agree that you handle the
>> stresses of life better than the average person whilst *NOT* giving you
>> psychological counseling! makes you wonder how they knew.........doesn't it?
>> hahahahahahah
>
> Hmmm, interesting trolling technique there, Wally.
I prefer to think of it as Snit 'Baiting'.......call it what you will!
> So, how do you think you know what has gone on in private sessions? Really?
> And how do you think you have any expertise to override their conclusions?
Please show where I have given any indication as to an inside knowledge of
these "private sessions" I have only stated information that has been
supplied by you.
> Your armchair psychology does not impress me, not even a little.
>
> Really, Wally, I would love to have you explain your little trolling here.
And that explanation will be forthcoming just as soon as you indicate where
my "armchair psychology" extends beyond the facts that you yourself
supplied!
>> Did they happen to explain how you were handling the stresses better than
>> the average person, given that the average person doesn't have an anxiety
>> disorder and never needs to seek such advice from "a number of
>> professionals"?
>
> Do you really want to gain a better understanding of anxiety disorders?
Uuummmmmm...NO!, I have already seen in your reply to ed that my question is
far too difficult for you to answer.
> I
> know csma is not the forum, but since Steve Carroll in his ignorance and
> bigotry brought the topic up,
Are you seriously claiming that Steve Carroll first brought up the topic of
*your* anxiety disorders, I must remember to have a word with him about next
weeks lottery numbers! ;=)
> I am happy to have such a discussion *if* the
> people I am discussing it with are not simply looking to troll.
Bait!
> You, Wally, have a long way to go to convince me you have any other purpose
> in your questions.
My purpose is perfectly clear!
> Still, even if I am not looking to talk to you, if you
> want to know more about anxiety disorders and have your questions answered
> not just by people with such health concerns but by professionals in the
> field, please visit alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated. The moderated
> nature of that forum minimizes or reduces such trolling as you seem to want
> to push here.
Pass.
> If you really want answers to your question, post there.
You really must have a high regard for those folks if you believe they can
answer questions about your particular inconsistencies better than you can,
but I do take your point, given the extremes that you go to to avoid
answering a query I would be better served dealing with someone whose
honesty wasn't constantly being questioned.
> If you ISP does
> not offer access, alt.support.anxiety-panic would be a reasonable place to
> go as well, though as an unmoderated forum there is trolling.
>>>
>>> Ahhhh, trolls... what say you?
>>
>> Ahhhh, trolls........of course!
>
> Well, it clearly describes you... look at your comments, above. You clearly
> are trolling here,
Nope!.....Baiting. ;=)
> as you have been trolling in the past.
Baiting! ;=)
> Want more support
> of your trolling:
Baiting ;=)
> I, unlike the trolls in csma who make similar accusations
> against me, am happy to provide support for my claims -
"to provide" has never been your problem, in fact quite the opposite, it is
the honesty of that provided that has been your undoing here.
> support that
> included quotes directly from you.
Are there any other kind?...........Oh! silly me, of course there are, the
quotes that you manufacture and claim to be verbatim of course, how could I
forget? LOL
Wally
----------
In article <BDC2D1E5.1276B%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
<SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
<snip>
> I also teach classes... a form of public speaking.
Hardly public speaking! ed has already noted the authoritative role that
would accompany this activity, I would add the *control* that it would
afford you that is consistent with your behavior here!
> I am very comfortable in
> front of groups, esp. if I am speaking about a topic I am familiar with.
Yup, your fine as long as you feel in control, when you don't then that is
when you find the need to use dishonesty to try and regain lost ground, even
if this regained ground is in your own mind only, as is regularly the case!.
<snip>
> I would say I handle stress better than the average person, and would assume
> I handle it better than the average person with an anxiety disorder.
Say what!,
You, with "an anxiety disorder" think that you handle stress better than the
average person *without* "an anxiety disorder" But you only assume that you
handle stress better than the average person *with* "an anxiety disorder".
Using your analogy please explain how someone who is being treated for an
anxiety attack over being punched by an 800 Gorilla can be said to be
handling the situation *better* than someone that has no such fear.
And you claim that a number of professionals have the opinion that you are
"in no need of any psychological counseling." au contraire!
Steve Carroll
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
I would say you don't and your attitude on this NG proves it, in fact, that was
the reason I wrote the answer to Jason that I did. I doubt any of those who have
analyzed you are witness to what you've done in here. People are usually pretty
good at hiding things from those they don't often interact with. There is a
reason that virtually all the frequent posters in this NG have commented on you
the way they have, Snit (even many of the lurkers have). Are they all what you
say? Lying trolls? But you're OK... it's everyone else that has the problem. Is
this one of your self adjustment techniques? You're fooling yourself... you're
certainly not fooling anyone in csma. Everyone here has seen to what extent you
are willing to go to deny reality... this is likely no different.
--
Steve C
Elizabot v2.0.2
Your premise is faulty. I was not "outed" by Snit.
Snit
The point is that people learn an anxiety response to anxiety producing
situations. This includes both external and internal stressors. There have
been tests where people without anxiety disorders have been given drugs to
produce an anxiety attack - the study was cut short because for a number of
those people they would have continued attacks... though there is no reason
to believe that they did not handle day to day stress as well as before.
I suppose we need to define terms a bit better... to be specific, when I
talk about anxiety disorders I am talking specifically about panic disorder
and should specify. Technically I have never been diagnosed as having one,
but it goes along with what I do have: polysystemic dysautonomia associated
with Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrome. I am not in reference to a generalized
anxiety disorder, or, except where I specifically state it, phobias or PTSD
or other forms of anxiety disorders.
The next thing to look at is what we mean by handling general stress well.
People are often hit by stressors in their lives - angry kids, rude
co-workers, bad traffic, etc. etc. etc. Of course, there are also the big
stressors: family members dying, moving, getting married (while a good
stress, it is one of the top stressors), getting a new job, etc.
When I am talking about handling day to day stress well, it is those things
I am in reference to. The idea that I handle stresses well is not based
just on self analysis, but on professional opinions... opinions that I take
far more seriously than those the trolls who have jumped into this thread
and tried to use the info I am telling you as an attack (Steve Carroll and
Wally).
>
>> For whatever reason (and the reasons vary from person to person) the anxiety
>> system will *sometimes* go haywire... people who have had anxiety disorders
>> who have also been in wars or other hellish situations will often say nothing
>> compares to a bad anxiety attack as far as the level of anxiety felt. I have
>> known someone with an anxiety disorders who, before he started having
>> attacks, was a test pilot and avid mountain climber.
>
> so when he didn't have an anxiety disorder he was a test pilot and mountain
> climber , and now that he does, he doesn't/can't do those things anymore?
> that's supposed to support you're point, how? =D
He is not the type person who runs from stress. At the same time he no
longer places himself into situations where an anxiety attack could have
devastating consequences. He does, however, travel often and give talks to
people about anxiety disorders... and, as far as I know, he handles day to
day stress quite well. I can not say I know him well enough to make solid
claims to that, though.
Assume someone had something else that could affect them for a limited
period of time - say epileptic attacks. Would you claim that an epileptic
that no longer pilots airplanes is not able to handle day to day stress?
The two are not the same at all.
Just to make sure I understand, what do you mean by handling day to day
stress? I have given you at least some insight to my views.
>
>> I have known others who have gone through wars and tell stories of dealing
>> with situations where few people would be able to maintain their heads... but
>> they did (I cannot say if I would... luckily I have never been in such a
>> situation). I can say that an anxiety attack is an absolutely horrible
>> experience to go through.
>>
>> Anxiety disorders, at least often, are not an indication of an individual
>> dealing poorly with anxiety
>
> it's the fact that they have anxiety to begin with in situations that
> "normal" people wouldn't ; i.e. they're stressed out by things that others
> deal w/ normally (from the adaa page).
Someone with a phobia reacts to a specific situation with very strong stress
- that does not imply that they do not handle general stress well. Nor do I
recall any studies that indicate that is a general tendency.
Panic attacks need not be that way at all. Panic attacks do not need to
come from external stressors... they often have no known cause. They even
happen in sleep... during non-REM cycles (so it is not just a reaction to a
nightmare).
I have gone through times in my life of heavy stress where I have had few if
any attacks - I have had other times of relative calm with frequent and
debilitating attacks.
From the ADAA site:
----- Start Quotes -----
There are three types of Panic Attacks:
1. Unexpected - the attack "comes out of the blue" without warning and for
no discernable reason.
2. Situational - situations in which an individual always has an attack, for
example, upon entering a tunnel.
3. Situationally Predisoposed - situations in which an individual is likely
to have a Panic Attack, but does not always have one. An example of this
would be an individual who sometimes has attacks while driving.
----- End Quotes -----
For the most part, I have type 1 attacks (as far as I know there is no
official "type 1", I am simply in reference to the above listing).
You seem to be not only in reference to type 2 or 3, but also are including
some level of generalized anxiety. It seems you are assuming that I, or
others with panic attacks, are more similar than is the case. As listed as
the norm on the same site, I do worry about another attack... as do just
about all people who go through that or any other hellish experience where
they have little or no control over the timing.
Side note: I find it odd that such a site would *misspell* one of the
types... it should be "Situationally Predisposed", and not "Situationally
Predisoposed". Oh well... maybe I am being nit picky. :)
>
>> any more than someone with chronic pain is someone who deals with pain
>> poorly. If anything, one would expect someone who has dealt with chronic
>> pain to handle pain better than the norm... though one could push the analogy
>> too far.
>
> that analogy seems like you've already pushed it too far- it seems like a
> nonstarter- you're trying to say that you expect someone w/ anxiety disorder
> handles anxiety better than those w/out it, ignoring the fact that the
> problem is the existence of the anxiety in those situations to begin with.
> (from the adaa page)
Please point to your specific quote. Sounds like you are talking about free
floating or generalized anxiety.
If someone has Panic attacks and pseudo attacks (or mild attacks) they often
learn to handle the stress of that situation well. When other stressors
come up, as they do for everyone, they can use the same skills to handle the
other stress well.
This is far from universal, but it is something I have observed in many
people, and have discussed with professionals in the field who have stated
they have seen the same pattern in *some* individuals with panic attacks.
There are also those that pretty much give up and see themselves as victims
and generally are not able to work, are more likely to succumb to long term
agoraphobia, etc. There may be, of course, many factors that feed into
this... including how severe and frequent the attacks are - but will and
determination surely play a part as well.
>
>> Often anxiety disorders are combined with depression, alcoholism and other
>> forms of "self medication", and many lead to different forms of phobias,
>> especially agoraphobia. It makes sense for anyone with an anxiety disorder
>> to be seen by a psychiatrist or other mental health professional, if for no
>> other reason than to rule out these other often seen combinations and to help
>> the person deal better with the anxiety the disorders brings. In my case I
>> have been seen by a number of different professionals through out the years -
>> I have been open to having that part of my health looked at. I have gone
>> through a battery of tests and consistently it has been found that I handle
>> the stress quite well.
>
> the very definitions of these types of disorders suggest otherwise:
> generalized anxiety disorder- " The essential characteristic of Generalized
> Anxiety Disorder is excessive uncontrollable worry about everyday things. "
> sure sounds like having this disorder and generally handling stress well are
> mutually exclusive.
Fair enough - I was not clear that I was talking about panic disorders and
not generalized anxiety disorders.
> panic disorder- " People with panic disorder suffer severe attacks of
> panic-which may make them feel like they are having a heart attack or are
> going crazy-for no apparent reason. " also sounds like having this disorder
> and generally handling stress well are mutually exclusive.
In what way? There is nothing in that definition to imply that day to day
stresses bring on the attacks.
> http://www.adaa.org/AnxietyDisorderInfor/OverviewAnxDis.cfm
From your link, click on Panic Attacks and you will see the three types I
listed above.
Even for people with more type 2 and 3 attacks, I do not see anything that
suggests they deal with other common stressors poorly. For example, someone
may tend to have attacks while driving, but not in other situations most
people would find far more stressful.
>
>> Even when I was struggling with a phobia, I was handling it well and
>> managed to eliminate it on my own. This may be in part from my
>> personal background in psychological health methods (I have a degree
>> in psychology). I understand the basics of overcoming such things,
>> and applied the techniques on myself.
>
> then you should know self-treatment is frowned upon in psychology. =D
I see you smiley, but will respond as though you are at least somewhat
serious. Forgive me if I assume incorrectly.
Where have you read that using the steps of systematic desensitization
should not be tried without the assistance of a professional? When I have
shared my experiences with the professionals I have worked with, they have
universally agreed that my strategy was done well. They have never
suggested that I should not do such things on my own - to the contrary they
encourage it.
>
>> So to get back to the question, yes, someone with an anxiety disorder
>> can handle general stressors as well or better than the average
>> person, though there may be specific areas where this is not true.
>
> it sounds like this is not the case based on the very definitions of the
> disorders.
Depends on which specific disorder.
>
>> A common area is bodily sensations... which I am prone to as well - so I do
>> have some level of hypochondriac tendencies (which is not the same as being a
>> true hypochondriac).
>
> yeah, you're only partly crazy. =D
Hey, even someone who handles stress well can be insane. :)
>
>> This may be caused by a reaction to past attacks, but it also may be from an
>> autonomic nervous system that does not filter out internal signals well. As
>> an example, I can almost always feel my heart beating, and can often feel
>> other internal sensations that most people do not. I have known people with
>> anxiety disorders who can hear the blood pumping in their ears... which makes
>> sense: the sound is loud enough for "normal" people to hear, but it is
>> "filtered out" in most (technically the term filtering is not 100% accurate,
>> but close enough). Others are aware of there blind spots... etc.
>
> what makes you think normal people can't feel their heart beating, hear
> their blood pumping, aren't aware of their blind spots, etc?
Based on personal research, books I have read, etc.
Years ago, when I was first diagnosed with MVP I read a book that stated
most people with MVPS have no idea that most people can not feel their
resting heart beat, etc. I did not believe the book, so I started asking
friends and family if they could feel their pulse. Almost were unable to
(without feeling their wrist or whatever... I mean just feeling it from your
heart itself). I did have one friend who had not been diagnosed with MVP
who could feel her heart beating.
She was diagnosed with MVP about a year later.
There is not a 100% correlation, but based on personal experience and
reading / research, the correlation is fairly strong.
Do you almost always feel your heart beating as you sit?
>
>> None of this implies that the person can not handle normal life
>> stressors well. In order to cope with the disorder, many people,
>> myself included, learn breathing exercises or other methods of
>> handling the stress. Perhaps partially from that, I generally do not
>> react strongly to day to day stress, and most people who I know in
>> day to day life are shocked to hear I have an anxiety disorder.
>
> and what causes the other people to NOT be shocked? that's probably the
> part that needs examining!
Hmmm, I am not sure I have ever met anyone who figured it out on their own,
with the possible exception of when someone has seen me have an attack...
*and* they have had panic attacks also.
>
>> As I have said before, I do not have a heightened startle response, and, if
>> anything, am harder to startle... or at least react less than most do in
>> "startling" situations (loud noises and the like).
>>
>> The most common phobia in the US is fear of speaking in front of people...
>> this rates higher than even the fear of death or the fear of heights.
>
> are you talking phobias, or fears?
Phobias.
> you're using the terms interchangeably, and they are very different things.
> i.e. i have a very definate fear of heights, but not a phobia- being able to
> deal w/ it, i used to be a very avid skydiver and go rock climbing somewhat
> frequently.
They are very different and if I have been lose with my language I hope
things are cleared up now.
>
>> What do I do for a living - in addition to one on one
>> consulting, I also teach classes... a form of public speaking.
>
> i've found teaching classes and consulting is very different than general
> public speaking; when in those situations, you are in a position of
> authority, which is very different than speaking in front of peers.
No doubt... teaching is a less stressful form of public speaking, esp. when
you are teaching young children. Even when teaching adults, the setting
makes it less stressful than other forms of public speaking.
I also am a part of a story teller's guild where I do semi-frequent public
performances, and I have been doing some clowning work - though that is
again mostly in front of children and my be less stressful than other types
of public speaking (not to mention the costume makes things more anonymous,
which also changes the dynamic).
Still, a large percentage of the population would not be comfortable doing
the forms of public speaking that I do.
>
>> I am very comfortable in front of groups, esp. if I am speaking about a topic
>> I am familiar with.
>
> good, want a cookie? =D
Please. I prefer chocolate chip oatmeal.
>
>> With all this being said, I truly hope you are not looking to grab
>> things from the above to attack - as Steve and perhaps some others in
>> csma most certainly will. Oh, and I wrote the above during
>> commercial breaks while watching TV, so I can certainly understand if
>> you need clarification. :)
While I do not know if you and I will reach agreement, I get the feeling
that you are sincere in your questions. I hope that "tone" continues.
Elizabot v2.0.2
> "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in post
> alangbaker-0BD6B...@news.telus.net on 11/16/04 9:27 PM:
>
>
>>Snit,
>>
>>Just shut up.
>
>
> When it comes to Steve, and Elizabot, at least for a while I most likely
> will.
Do you ever stop lying?
> I let them suck me into their silly troll games. It was an error on my
> part.
It took you less then 24 hours to start it back up with Steve, and you
couldn't even resist the first first post I made that referenced you
since you made this post.
You are only fooling yourself if you think your "apology" holds any water.
Snit apolgizes:
http://tinyurl.com/6m262
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:20:00 -0700
From: Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Apology to csma
Message-ID: <BDC01F80.1237F%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
Snit resumes trolling Steve less than 24 hours later:
http://tinyurl.com/5o243
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:27:59 -0700
From: Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gay marriage NOT crushed
Elizabot doesn't post to or about Snit until two days later with this post:
http://tinyurl.com/576f5
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:01:41 -0700
From: "Elizabot v2.0.2" <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Elizabot: I would hope you meant what you said
Message-ID: <419d37e6$0$211$7586...@news.frii.net>
Snit is unable to keep his word and responds:
http://tinyurl.com/6f7gq
From: Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Elizabot: I would hope you meant what you said
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:04:30 -0700
Message-ID: <BDC2B0CE.1273F%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
Face the truth, Snit. You've lied to everyone in this newsgroup, and
your lying never stops.
Elizabot v2.0.2
Perhaps he's "seen a number of professionals" who initially agree with
him as he is such a slick liar, but when they start to figure out what's
*really* wrong with him, he dumps them and changes "professionals."
This way he can "honestly" claim that he's seen numerous professionals
and they all agree with him.
It's painfully obvious that Snit has issues with dealing with the truth
and will go to great lengths to avoid facing it.
Steve Carroll
"Elizabot v2.0.2" <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> wrote:
Though you may have been joking (or not) I know a person who has done exactly
what you just described. This girl is *easily* as whacked as Snit and she
convinces herself he is OK because of this tactic.
--
Steve C
Elizabot v2.0.2
how far someone will go to convince themselves that they are right and
everyone else is wrong.
--
"And if I get a hemorrhoid shaped like your face my proctologist will
contact you (not that I care what you even look like or what gender you
really are)." - Snit 10/11/04
Tim Adams
"Elizabot v2.0.2" <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> wrote:
Or he could be seeing professionals that are indeed telling him the
truth but he forgets what it is a couple of minutes later so he
concludes that they 'agreed' with him.
Or he could be seeing professionals that are indeed telling him the
truth and he agrees with that BUT he's to ashamed to admit it here so is
lying about what they told him.
--
Tim
Wally
----------
In article <419f827d$0$213$7586...@news.frii.net>, "Elizabot v2.0.2"
<Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> wrote:
> Wally wrote:
>>
>> ----------
>> In article <BDC16030.1253C%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
>> <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen a number
>>>of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the stresses of life
>>>better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of any
>>>psychological counseling.
>>
>>
>> Nice going, you get "a number of professionals" to agree that you handle the
>> stresses of life better than the average person whilst *NOT* giving you
>> psychological counseling! makes you wonder how they knew.........doesn't it?
>> hahahahahahah
>>
>> Did they happen to explain how you were handling the stresses better than
>> the average person, given that the average person doesn't have an anxiety
>> disorder and never needs to seek such advice from "a number of
>> professionals"?
>
> Perhaps he's "seen a number of professionals" who initially agree with
> him as he is such a slick liar, but when they start to figure out what's
> *really* wrong with him, he dumps them and changes "professionals."
>
> This way he can "honestly" claim that he's seen numerous professionals
> and they all agree with him.
Snit is like the person, who, 'after' just picking up his car from the
garage after having it serviced will proclaim that his car is *so* superior
to everyone else's that a mechanic told him that it doesn't need a service
and is in wonderful condition, completely ignoring the fact that he is on
the way home after having it serviced, and that the mechanic is hardly
likely to denigrate his own work, and of course it doesn't need a
service....until the next time!
That analogy fits in perfectly with Snits recent claim that.....
"...... a number of professionals who have consistently agreed I handle the
stresses of life better than average, am well adjusted, and am in no need of
any psychological counseling."
What scenario could have led "a number of professionals" to conclude that
Snit was.....
"well adjusted, and am in no need of any psychological counseling."
Perhaps straight after a bout of......
"psychological counseling" with "a number of professionals"?
Just a thought ;=)
> It's painfully obvious that Snit has issues with dealing with the truth
> and will go to great lengths to avoid facing it.
Perhaps his next 'service' will address that issue?
Snit
>>>>>> Please keep in mind that based on my anxiety disorder I have seen
The point is that people learn an anxiety response to anxiety producing
situations. This includes both external and internal stressors. There have
been tests where people without anxiety disorders have been given drugs to
produce an anxiety attack - the study was cut short because for a number of
those people they would have continued attacks... though there is no reason
to believe that they did not handle day to day stress as well as before.
I suppose we need to define terms a bit better... to be specific, when I
talk about anxiety disorders I am talking specifically about panic disorder
and should specify. Technically I have never been diagnosed as having one,
but it goes along with what I do have: polysystemic dysautonomia associated
with Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrome. I am not in reference to a generalized
anxiety disorder, or, except where I specifically state it, phobias or PTSD
or other forms of anxiety disorders.
The next thing to look at is what we mean by handling general stress well.
People are often hit by stressors in their lives - angry kids, rude
co-workers, bad traffic, etc. etc. etc. Of course, there are also the big
stressors: family members dying, moving, getting married (while a good
stress, it is one of the top stressors), getting a new job, etc.
When I am talking about handling day to day stress well, it is those things
I am in reference to. The idea that I handle stresses well is not based
just on self analysis, but on professional opinions... opinions that I take
far more seriously than those the trolls who have jumped into this thread
and tried to use the info I am telling you as an attack (Steve Carroll and
Wally).
>
>> For whatever reason (and the reasons vary from person to person) the anxiety
>> system will *sometimes* go haywire... people who have had anxiety disorders
>> who have also been in wars or other hellish situations will often say nothing
>> compares to a bad anxiety attack as far as the level of anxiety felt. I have
>> known someone with an anxiety disorders who, before he started having
>> attacks, was a test pilot and avid mountain climber.
>
> so when he didn't have an anxiety disorder he was a test pilot and mountain
> climber , and now that he does, he doesn't/can't do those things anymore?
> that's supposed to support you're point, how? =D
He is not the type person who runs from stress. At the same time he no
longer places himself into situations where an anxiety attack could have
devastating consequences. He does, however, travel often and give talks to
people about anxiety disorders... and, as far as I know, he handles day to
day stress quite well. I can not say I know him well enough to make solid
claims to that, though.
Assume someone had something else that could affect them for a limited
period of time - say epileptic attacks. Would you claim that an epileptic
that no longer pilots airplanes is not able to handle day to day stress?
The two are not the same at all.
Just to make sure I understand, what do you mean by handling day to day
stress? I have given you at least some insight to my views.
>
>> I have known others who have gone through wars and tell stories of dealing
>> with situations where few people would be able to maintain their heads... but
>> they did (I cannot say if I would... luckily I have never been in such a
>> situation). I can say that an anxiety attack is an absolutely horrible
>> experience to go through.
>>
>> Anxiety disorders, at least often, are not an indication of an individual
>> dealing poorly with anxiety
>
> it's the fact that they have anxiety to begin with in situations that
> "normal" people wouldn't ; i.e. they're stressed out by things that others
> deal w/ normally (from the adaa page).
Someone with a phobia reacts to a specific situation with very strong stress
From the ADAA site:
----- Start Quotes -----
----- End Quotes -----
>> any more than someone with chronic pain is someone who deals with pain
>> poorly. If anything, one would expect someone who has dealt with chronic
>> pain to handle pain better than the norm... though one could push the analogy
>> too far.
>
> that analogy seems like you've already pushed it too far- it seems like a
> nonstarter- you're trying to say that you expect someone w/ anxiety disorder
> handles anxiety better than those w/out it, ignoring the fact that the
> problem is the existence of the anxiety in those situations to begin with.
> (from the adaa page)
Please point to your specific quote. Sounds like you are talking about free
floating or generalized anxiety.
If someone has Panic attacks and pseudo attacks (or mild attacks) they often
learn to handle the stress of that situation well. When other stressors
come up, as they do for everyone, they can use the same skills to handle the
other stress well.
This is far from universal, but it is something I have observed in many
people, and have discussed with professionals in the field who have stated
they have seen the same pattern in *some* individuals with panic attacks.
There are also those that pretty much give up and see themselves as victims
and generally are not able to work, are more likely to succumb to long term
agoraphobia, etc. There may be, of course, many factors that feed into
this... including how severe and frequent the attacks are - but will and
determination surely play a part as well.
>
>> Often anxiety disorders are combined with depression, alcoholism and other
>> forms of "self medication", and many lead to different forms of phobias,
>> especially agoraphobia. It makes sense for anyone with an anxiety disorder
>> to be seen by a psychiatrist or other mental health professional, if for no
>> other reason than to rule out these other often seen combinations and to help
>> the person deal better with the anxiety the disorders brings. In my case I
>> have been seen by a number of different professionals through out the years -
>> I have been open to having that part of my health looked at. I have gone
>> through a battery of tests and consistently it has been found that I handle
>> the stress quite well.
>
> the very definitions of these types of disorders suggest otherwise:
> generalized anxiety disorder- " The essential characteristic of Generalized
> Anxiety Disorder is excessive uncontrollable worry about everyday things. "
> sure sounds like having this disorder and generally handling stress well are
> mutually exclusive.
Fair enough - I was not clear that I was talking about panic disorders and
not generalized anxiety disorders.
> panic disorder- " People with panic disorder suffer severe attacks of
> panic-which may make them feel like they are having a heart attack or are
> going crazy-for no apparent reason. " also sounds like having this disorder
> and generally handling stress well are mutually exclusive.
In what way? There is nothing in that definition to imply that day to day
stresses bring on the attacks.
> http://www.adaa.org/AnxietyDisorderInfor/OverviewAnxDis.cfm
From your link, click on Panic Attacks and you will see the three types I
listed above.
Even for people with more type 2 and 3 attacks, I do not see anything that
suggests they deal with other common stressors poorly. For example, someone
may tend to have attacks while driving, but not in other situations most
people would find far more stressful.
>
>> Even when I was struggling with a phobia, I was handling it well and
>> managed to eliminate it on my own. This may be in part from my
>> personal background in psychological health methods (I have a degree
>> in psychology). I understand the basics of overcoming such things,
>> and applied the techniques on myself.
>
> then you should know self-treatment is frowned upon in psychology. =D
I see you smiley, but will respond as though you are at least somewhat
serious. Forgive me if I assume incorrectly.
Where have you read that using the steps of systematic desensitization
should not be tried without the assistance of a professional? When I have
shared my experiences with the professionals I have worked with, they have
universally agreed that my strategy was done well. They have never
suggested that I should not do such things on my own - to the contrary they
encourage it.
>
>> So to get back to the question, yes, someone with an anxiety disorder
>> can handle general stressors as well or better than the average
>> person, though there may be specific areas where this is not true.
>
> it sounds like this is not the case based on the very definitions of the
> disorders.
Depends on which specific disorder.
>
>> A common area is bodily sensations... which I am prone to as well - so I do
>> have some level of hypochondriac tendencies (which is not the same as being a
>> true hypochondriac).
>
> yeah, you're only partly crazy. =D
Hey, even someone who handles stress well can be insane. :)
>
>> This may be caused by a reaction to past attacks, but it also may be from an
>> autonomic nervous system that does not filter out internal signals well. As
>> an example, I can almost always feel my heart beating, and can often feel
>> other internal sensations that most people do not. I have known people with
>> anxiety disorders who can hear the blood pumping in their ears... which makes
>> sense: the sound is loud enough for "normal" people to hear, but it is
>> "filtered out" in most (technically the term filtering is not 100% accurate,
>> but close enough). Others are aware of there blind spots... etc.
>
> what makes you think normal people can't feel their heart beating, hear
> their blood pumping, aren't aware of their blind spots, etc?
Based on personal research, books I have read, etc.
Years ago, when I was first diagnosed with MVP I read a book that stated
most people with MVPS have no idea that most people can not feel their
resting heart beat, etc. I did not believe the book, so I started asking
friends and family if they could feel their pulse. Almost were unable to
(without feeling their wrist or whatever... I mean just feeling it from your
heart itself). I did have one friend who had not been diagnosed with MVP
who could feel her heart beating.
She was diagnosed with MVP about a year later.
There is not a 100% correlation, but based on personal experience and
reading / research, the correlation is fairly strong.
Do you almost always feel your heart beating as you sit?
>
>> None of this implies that the person can not handle normal life
>> stressors well. In order to cope with the disorder, many people,
>> myself included, learn breathing exercises or other methods of
>> handling the stress. Perhaps partially from that, I generally do not
>> react strongly to day to day stress, and most people who I know in
>> day to day life are shocked to hear I have an anxiety disorder.
>
> and what causes the other people to NOT be shocked? that's probably the
> part that needs examining!
Hmmm, I am not sure I have ever met anyone who figured it out on their own,
with the possible exception of when someone has seen me have an attack...
*and* they have had panic attacks also.
>
>> As I have said before, I do not have a heightened startle response, and, if
>> anything, am harder to startle... or at least react less than most do in
>> "startling" situations (loud noises and the like).
>>
>> The most common phobia in the US is fear of speaking in front of people...
>> this rates higher than even the fear of death or the fear of heights.
>
> are you talking phobias, or fears?
Phobias.
> you're using the terms interchangeably, and they are very different things.
> i.e. i have a very definate fear of heights, but not a phobia- being able to
> deal w/ it, i used to be a very avid skydiver and go rock climbing somewhat
> frequently.
They are very different and if I have been lose with my language I hope
things are cleared up now.
>
>> What do I do for a living - in addition to one on one
>> consulting, I also teach classes... a form of public speaking.
>
> i've found teaching classes and consulting is very different than general
> public speaking; when in those situations, you are in a position of
> authority, which is very different than speaking in front of peers.
No doubt... teaching is a less stressful form of public speaking, esp. when
you are teaching young children. Even when teaching adults, the setting
makes it less stressful than other forms of public speaking.
I also am a part of a story teller's guild where I do semi-frequent public
performances, and I have been doing some clowning work - though that is
again mostly in front of children and my be less stressful than other types
of public speaking (not to mention the costume makes things more anonymous,
which also changes the dynamic).
Still, a large percentage of the population would not be comfortable doing
the forms of public speaking that I do.
>
>> I am very comfortable in front of groups, esp. if I am speaking about a topic
>> I am familiar with.
>
> good, want a cookie? =D
Please. I prefer chocolate chip oatmeal.
>
>> With all this being said, I truly hope you are not looking to grab
>> things from the above to attack - as Steve and perhaps some others in
>> csma most certainly will. Oh, and I wrote the above during
>> commercial breaks while watching TV, so I can certainly understand if
>> you need clarification. :)
While I do not know if you and I will reach agreement, I get the feeling
that you are sincere in your questions. I hope that "tone" continues.
Wally
----------
In article <BDC6AE69.1307E%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, Snit
<SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
Deja Vu.