iMac doomed to fail...
Robert J Goos
I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
USELESS.
The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
users, like me.
But, I'm wasting my time. Since when did Apple ever read these Newsgroups
or actually listen to their customers?
Andy Walton
In article <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
:However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
:SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
:connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
:USELESS.
I see the bar keeps being raised... we're now cndemnimg machines that
won't ship for another three months.
Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
connection. Any other problems?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The good news is that you're normal. The bad news is that normal is
the one condition there's no treatment for." -- Dr. Laura
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * att...@mindspring.com * http://atticus.home.mindspring.com/
Maury Markowitz
In <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu> Robert J Goos claimed:
>
> I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton,
It has irda, why even plug it in?
> However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> SCSI drive
Do you mean SCSI port?
> missing a floppy drive
To date anyway.
> and using non-standard connectors to
> connect to such things as printers and Newtons,
Ha ha! Intel must be freaking if they read that! USB is non-standard!
Mac users crying for years to get it, then they do and suddenly they don't
want it.
Maury
Chad Irby
go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert J Goos) wrote:
> I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
> plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
> I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
> kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
> then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
Great. Spend another $300 and get a "real" Power Mac AIO, or another $500
and get a regular desktop Mac.
> However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
> connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
> USELESS.
You would. Try thinking about how someone who doesn't have all of your
legacy hardware will look at it. "Gee, I could plug in my new USB
printer, my new USB Zip drive, and my new USB 2 gig Orb drive. Then I
could plug in my new ADSL connection through the ethernet connecter, and
my kids could email their homework to themselves at school so I don't have
to worry about them losing a floppy on the way to class."
> The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
> several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
> users, like me.
You're not a potential user. You're in a different class altogether.
> But, I'm wasting my time. Since when did Apple ever read these Newsgroups
> or actually listen to their customers?
All of the time, evidently. When have you ever given real thought ti what
the average, normal, everyday person really wants in a machine?
--
Chad Irby ci...@magicnet.net
/ My greatest fear:
/ That future generations will, for some
/ reason, refer to me as an "optimist."
Michael Roeder
In article <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
> I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
> plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
> I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
> kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
> then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
Me, too.
> However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
> connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
> USELESS.
To you. So don't buy one.
> The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
> several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
> users, like me.
Do you feel that Apple must build only products that appeal to your needs
and desires? Do you think that your needs are identical to the needs of
all potential buyers of Apple products everywhere? Is it possible that
there are users whose needs differ from yours? Is Apple going to drop
their existing desktop and PowerBook computers and exclusively build
iMacs?
> But, I'm wasting my time. Since when did Apple ever read these Newsgroups
> or actually listen to their customers?
Good question.
--
Michael Roeder, QA Engineer, Speaking for himself.
mroeder at macromedia dot com
http://www.stopspam.org/usenet/faqs/faqs.html
Steve Hix
> I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
> plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
> I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
> kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
> then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
>
> However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
> connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
> USELESS.
Which Newt do you have? If it's a 2k or 2100...IIRC, it's IrDA, like the iMac.
> The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
> several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
> users, like me.
>
> But, I'm wasting my time. Since when did Apple ever read these Newsgroups
> or actually listen to their customers?
You never know...unless you check, maybe.
Steve Hix
In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
> Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
> : Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
> : assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
> : since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
> : connection. Any other problems?
> Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears.
Who says that Apple is going to be the only source for USB peripherals?
> By the time you add the various peripherals (USB floppy drive),
That will likely be useful.
> and adapters (USB/Local talk plus USB/SCSI adapters),
The iMac is aimed at new users...who aren't likely to *have* printers, etc.
It's not aimed at you.
> there will be no savings at all over the nice
> all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
Steve Hix
In article <6itvla$nt0$3...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
> Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
As soon as something new hits the market.
Happens every time a new model computer shows up.
How many people bought shiny new 8-inch diskettes after smaller
drives began to arrive that were higher capacity/cheaper/faster?
That's life.
Steve Hix
In article <mroeder-0705...@192.168.21.123>,
mro...@macroNOSPAMmedia.com (Michael Roeder) wrote:
> In article <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> J Goos) wrote:
>
> > I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
> > plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
> > I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
> > kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
> > then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
>
> Me, too.
>
> > However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> > SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
> > connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
> > USELESS.
>
> To you. So don't buy one.
If he's got an MP2k or 2100, he can't even use this argument. IrDA.
(Just checked my MP2K docs.)
Robert J Goos
Chad Irby (ci...@magicnet.net) wrote:
: You would. Try thinking about how someone who doesn't have all of your
: legacy hardware will look at it. "Gee, I could plug in my new USB
: printer, my new USB Zip drive, and my new USB 2 gig Orb drive. Then I
: could plug in my new ADSL connection through the ethernet connecter, and
: my kids could email their homework to themselves at school so I don't have
: to worry about them losing a floppy on the way to class."
Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
How many first-time Mac users have any clue what an "Orb drive" is? My 14
year old son came home from school today and said, "Did you hear that
there's a new Mac that doesn't even come with a floppy drive? How stupid
is that???" It makes the computer a joke from the beginning. By saving a
few bucks, they automatically give the iMac a bad name. National Public
Radio had an article on the iMac today. The headline, "Apple is making a
new low-cost Macintosh...but a floppy drive will cost you extra." Most of
the interview of an expert was focused, not on the speed of the machine,
but whether or not people will accept a machine without a floppy drive.
It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
defensive from the get-go on this one.
Robert J Goos
Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
: assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
: since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
: connection. Any other problems?
Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
Jason S.
Robert J Goos wrote:
>Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
>How many first-time Mac users have any clue what an "Orb drive" is? My 14
>year old son came home from school today and said, "Did you hear that
>there's a new Mac that doesn't even come with a floppy drive? How stupid
>is that???" It makes the computer a joke from the beginning. By saving a
>few bucks, they automatically give the iMac a bad name. National Public
>Radio had an article on the iMac today. The headline, "Apple is making a
>new low-cost Macintosh...but a floppy drive will cost you extra." Most of
>the interview of an expert was focused, not on the speed of the machine,
>but whether or not people will accept a machine without a floppy drive.
>It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
>defensive from the get-go on this one.
My how the PC world clings to its anachronisms. If the auto industry
was dominated by Microsoft and Intel, every new car would have a hand
crank and a manual choke...
--
If FreeBSD actually did that, I would concede that FreeBSD was any more
"correct" than Linux is, but not even the FreeBSD people can justify
that kind of performance loss.
-- Linus Torvalds on comp.unix.advocacy
Lawson English
Jason S. <ja...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org> said:
>
>My how the PC world clings to its anachronisms. If the auto industry
>was dominated by Microsoft and Intel, every new car would have a hand
>crank and a manual choke...
>
Hey, I would LOVE to own a car with a hand-crank. They're VERY cool. Total
status symbol, dude.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Want Apple to license Cyberdog for third-party development? Go to:
<http://www.pcsincnet.com/petition.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Irby
go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert J Goos) wrote:
> Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
When you own it before you buy your current machine. Once again: the new
iMac *won't* be aimed at you, or your family, or anyone like that. It's
aimed at the folks who don't have any computer experience. The same folks
who keep getting stuck by PC salesmen who sell them Packard-Bell or
three-year-old Compaqs for about twice what they're worth, under the guise
of "home computers."
> How many first-time Mac users have any clue what an "Orb drive" is?
Very few. I just picked it out as a piece of technology that a lot of
folks are eagerly awaiting, and which would be very well suited to USB
hookups for the iMac. Removable 2 gig drive, $199, media under $35.
That's a great accessory for this machine.
> My 14
> year old son came home from school today and said, "Did you hear that
> there's a new Mac that doesn't even come with a floppy drive? How stupid
> is that???"
Yup. I'm sure he heard that all right. Probably from the same bright
kids who infected most of the school PCs with yet another PC virus by
installing a pirated copy of Quake from a handful of floppies...
> It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
> defensive from the get-go on this one.
...except for the upcoming stories that I'm also hearing about how
"computer sellers are charging for floppy dirves that nobody even uses any
more."
There's a flip side to every legacy hardware argument.
Let me guess: you're probably also upset that it doesn't have a parallel
port, either, and that it doesn't support CGA graphics...
Jason S.
Lawson English wrote:
>>My how the PC world clings to its anachronisms. If the auto industry
>>was dominated by Microsoft and Intel, every new car would have a hand
>>crank and a manual choke...
>Hey, I would LOVE to own a car with a hand-crank. They're VERY cool. Total
>status symbol, dude.
Of course, if MS software controlled your electrical system, you'd
probably have to use it quite a bit...
Joe Ragosta
> In article <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> J Goos) wrote:
>
> > But, I'm wasting my time. Since when did Apple ever read these Newsgroups
> > or actually listen to their customers?
>
> Good question.
You might be surprised. Someone at Apple does follow these groups because
I've received e-mail from people several times. I don't know how
_regularly_ they follow it, but they're lurking.
HOWEVER, if you have a complaint or suggestion, please send it to
<leade...@apple.com>. They say that every e-mail is read.
--
Regards,
Joe Ragosta
http://www.dol.net/~Ragosta/complmac.htm
Joe Ragosta
In article <6itvla$nt0$3...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
> Chad Irby (ci...@magicnet.net) wrote:
>
> : You would. Try thinking about how someone who doesn't have all of your
> : legacy hardware will look at it. "Gee, I could plug in my new USB
> : printer, my new USB Zip drive, and my new USB 2 gig Orb drive. Then I
> : could plug in my new ADSL connection through the ethernet connecter, and
> : my kids could email their homework to themselves at school so I don't have
> : to worry about them losing a floppy on the way to class."
>
> Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
> How many first-time Mac users have any clue what an "Orb drive" is? My 14
> year old son came home from school today and said, "Did you hear that
> there's a new Mac that doesn't even come with a floppy drive? How stupid
> is that???" It makes the computer a joke from the beginning. By saving a
> few bucks, they automatically give the iMac a bad name. National Public
> Radio had an article on the iMac today. The headline, "Apple is making a
> new low-cost Macintosh...but a floppy drive will cost you extra." Most of
> the interview of an expert was focused, not on the speed of the machine,
> but whether or not people will accept a machine without a floppy drive.
> It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
> defensive from the get-go on this one.
Then write to Apple at <leade...@apple.com>. There have been reports
that the feature list isn't complete on this device.
Frankly, the overwhelming majority of reports that I've seen have been
very, very positive.
Joe Ragosta
In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
So don't buy your peripherals from Apple.
Back in the days when a second floppy drive was useful, lots of people
sold external drives for Macs. Lots of people sell keyboards, mice,
trackballs, etc. Lots of people sell video cards (Apple dropped out of
this market entirely when they switched to PCI). What makes you think that
it's going to be _harder_ to get peripherals now that Apple has switched
to the industry standard USB? That just doesn't make sense.
Joe Ragosta
In article <stevehix-070...@ip58.safemail.com>,
stev...@safemail.com (Steve Hix) wrote:
> In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> J Goos) wrote:
> > Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
> > : Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
> > : assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
> > : since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
> > : connection. Any other problems?
>
> > Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> > the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears.
>
> Who says that Apple is going to be the only source for USB peripherals?
>
> > By the time you add the various peripherals (USB floppy drive),
>
> That will likely be useful.
True, but I think LS120 will be more likely. In quantity, it's probably
not that much more than a floppy drive and is much more useful.
>
> > and adapters (USB/Local talk plus USB/SCSI adapters),
>
> The iMac is aimed at new users...who aren't likely to *have* printers, etc.
If they do, you could get an Etherprint to use your existing printers.
>
> It's not aimed at you.
>
> > there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
>
> People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
--
-J
On 8 May 1998 07:23:38 GMT, ci...@magicnet.net (Chad Irby) wrote:
>go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert J Goos) wrote:
>
>Yup. I'm sure he heard that all right. Probably from the same bright
>kids who infected most of the school PCs with yet another PC virus by
>installing a pirated copy of Quake from a handful of floppies...
Heheheee. Just made me laugh. Quake on floppies. Like 400 of them. :P
-J
>
>> It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
>> defensive from the get-go on this one.
>
Jason McNorton
In article Joe Ragosta, joe.r...@dol.net says...
>
> You might be surprised. Someone at Apple does follow these groups because
> I've received e-mail from people several times. I don't know how
> _regularly_ they follow it, but they're lurking.
>
> HOWEVER, if you have a complaint or suggestion, please send it to
> <leade...@apple.com>. They say that every e-mail is read.
Joe, the way you advertise and talk you sound like such a shill. I
supposed it's possible that you are what you say, but it seems less
likely every time you preach Apple's song.
--
A world without the Mac is a step closer to utopia.
Michael Benedetti
The IMAC market is *not* people who already own a Mac! It is not even people
who already own a computer! This is an *entry level* machine. I own a
9500/200 with every peripheral under the sun. Why would I buy an IMAC? Geez,
the nitpicks from people on the subject of the Imac are getting to be inane.
Robert J Goos wrote:
> I would buy an iMac in a MINUTE, if I could plug in my Newton, if I could
> plug in my existing printer, if I could plug in my existing Zip drive, if
> I could plug in my existing external hard drive. I'd buy an iMac if my
> kids could use it to write their reports at home using Claris Works, and
> then take them to school with them (as they do almost every day).
>
> However, the iMac won't allow me to do ANY of these things. Missing a
> SCSI drive, missing a floppy drive, and using non-standard connectors to
> connect to such things as printers and Newtons, I say, THIS THING IS
> USELESS.
>
> The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
> several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
> users, like me.
>
Chad Irby
jho...@removemewhro.org (-J) wrote:
> Heheheee. Just made me laugh. Quake on floppies. Like 400 of them. :P
Laugh all you want. You can bet that there's someone out there trying it.
For the record, Quake is only 60 megs on my machine. So it would only be
30 or so, compressed... and *yes*, they'll do it.
But if it makes you feel better, think of any of a dozen "hot" PC games...
Chad Irby
joe.r...@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) wrote:
> True, but I think LS120 will be more likely. In quantity, it's probably
> not that much more than a floppy drive and is much more useful.
Much more so with a USB port. Parallel port mass storage (like a lot of
those PC LS-120s and Zips) is just *way* too slow.
R. Tang
In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>,
Robert J Goos <go...@badlands.NoDak.edu> wrote:
>Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
>: Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
>: assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
>: since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
>: connection. Any other problems?
>
>Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals,
Ummmm....who says you have to buy APPLE's peripherals?
Where did USB come from, hm?
the entire advantage of
>the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
>various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
>USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
>all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
>
--
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL]
- http://www.abcflash.com/arts/r_tang/AATR.html
-Declared 4-F in the War Between the Sexes
Eric Remy
In article <slrn6l51ma...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org>,
ja...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org (Jason S.) wrote:
> My how the PC world clings to its anachronisms.
Yeah, I know. It's just so _stupid_ to want to be able to back up my
Quicken files. And why would I ever want to keep my old trackball and
printer when I can buy shiny new ones?
For that matter, I _really_ hope that they can Blue Box for Rhapsody. Why
would I ever want to run legacy Mac software? Ick.
Complain all you want, but legacy sells. Apple needs to sell. Personally,
I like Joe Ragosta's idea of sticking in an LS-120. It's got the cool
cutting edge thing, but it can also read old floppies. The only problem
would be boosting the price.
--
Eric R. edr...@chem1.usc.edu
Director of Instructional Computing, USC Chemistry
"See, I told you they'd listen to Reason"- Fisheye, _Snow Crash_
If you think I speak for USC, see your doctor now.
Jayfar
In article <atticus-0705...@user-38lcbgl.dialup.mindspring.com>,
att...@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
[snip]
| Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it.
MacCentral has quoted Apple spokesman Russell Brady thusly:
* "Apple will not be offering a floppy disk drive
* configuration or external floppy disk drive for
* iMac."
<URL:http://www.maccentral.com/news/9805/07.imac.shtml>
Cheers,
Jayfar
--
Jay Farrell Jayfar's Original Virtual Macintosh
jay...@netaxs.com * Your Favorite Mac Site * Now Updated Daily *
Philadelphia, USA <URL:http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/live.desk.html>
Jayfar's APPLE DOOMSDAY CLOCK <URL:http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/>
Goin' Nova
> In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> J Goos) wrote:
> > Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
> > : Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
> > : assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
> > : since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
> > : connection. Any other problems?
>
> > Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> > the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears.
>
> Who says that Apple is going to be the only source for USB peripherals?
>
> > By the time you add the various peripherals (USB floppy drive),
>
> That will likely be useful.
>
> > and adapters (USB/Local talk plus USB/SCSI adapters),
>
> The iMac is aimed at new users...who aren't likely to *have* printers, etc.
>
> It's not aimed at you.
>
> > there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
>
> People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
Albeit, more expensive...
--
Of course, wilhelp is Bill Palamer's copyrighted property.
World Famous Usenet "writer", "my name is wilhelp"
wil...@ix.netcom.com (Bill Palmer) demonstrating
proofreading is not an option in <6i3rh6$2...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Goin' Nova
> In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> J Goos) wrote:
>
> > Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
> >
> > : Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
> > : assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
> > : since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
> > : connection. Any other problems?
> >
> > Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> > the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
> > various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
> > USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
>
> So don't buy your peripherals from Apple.
>
> Back in the days when a second floppy drive was useful, lots of people
> sold external drives for Macs. Lots of people sell keyboards, mice,
> trackballs, etc. Lots of people sell video cards (Apple dropped out of
> this market entirely when they switched to PCI).
Lots of people don't write Mac drivers.
>What makes you think that
> it's going to be _harder_ to get peripherals now that Apple has switched
> to the industry standard USB? That just doesn't make sense.
He didn't say harder, he said more expensive. And, initially at least, this
should be the case.
Andy Walton
In article <6itvla$nt0$3...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
:new low-cost Macintosh...but a floppy drive will cost you extra." Most of
:the interview of an expert was focused, not on the speed of the machine,
:but whether or not people will accept a machine without a floppy drive.
That says to me that Apple's doing something right -- They've got a
machine innovative enough that the buzz is over whether people will accept
it. There are plenty of cookie-cutter machines out there, in desktop,
minitower, or full tower configurqations -- if one of those meets your
needs, buy it.
And for the record, it's nto a machine for which no floppy drive exists --
it's a machine for which a floppy drive is an external device. Will people
buy such a machine? Thousands of people buy laptops with an external
floppy every day.
:It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
:defensive from the get-go on this one.
Yeah, it's pretty dreadful when they're getting all that free press. I'd
hate to be faced with that kind of attention. Love it or hate it, this is
the machine that everyone is talking about.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I've been down so long that down don't worry me." -- Billie Holiday
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * att...@mindspring.com * http://atticus.home.mindspring.com/
Andy Walton
In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
:Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
:
:: Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
:: assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
:: since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
:: connection. Any other problems?
:
:Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
:the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears.
Of course, having rethought the way they build Macs, it's unthinkable that
Apple might handle the iMac's floppy drive differently from, say, the
PB2400's.
:By the time you add the
:various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
:USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
:all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
And if you're running a lot of SCSI peripherals and a local talk network,
the all-in-one G3 is probably a better bet for you. I haven't heard anyone
from Apple say that the iMac is intended to replace the rest of their
product line.
That seems to be the biggest point that is being missed -- this machine is
aimed primarily at first-time computer buyers. It's almost by definition
not for most of the people in this group. I've got a SCSI Zip, two
external and one internal hard drive, a scanner, a SyQuest, and a
LocalTalk LaserWriter, all of which argues against my going to iMac. But
unlike some posters hereabouts, I'm not all hot and bothered by the notion
that Apple has a machine not aimed at me.
--
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is
beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the
wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." -- Dave Barry
Andy Walton
In article <jayfar-0805...@downtown1-14.slip.netaxs.com>,
jay...@netaxs.com wrote:
:In article <atticus-0705...@user-38lcbgl.dialup.mindspring.com>,
:att...@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
:[snip]
:
:| Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it.
:
:MacCentral has quoted Apple spokesman Russell Brady thusly:
:
: * "Apple will not be offering a floppy disk drive
: * configuration or external floppy disk drive for
: * iMac."
:
: <URL:http://www.maccentral.com/news/9805/07.imac.shtml>
Same page, same spokesman:
"Apple--and the industry--expects lots of peripherals, from storage devices
to printers, to be available to hook up to iMac through this newer,
industry-standard serial bus."
The statement that there will be no external floppy kind of contradicts
the unofficial word at macosrumors
<http://www.macosrumors.com/archive230.html>, about "the USB floppy the
boys in hardware dev are playing with." Note that the source doesn't say
it's an Apple drive.
The above quote seems to imply that Apple expects third-party peripherals;
and if the iMac sells, there will be enough of a market that USB
peripherals will finally become a reality for Mac and PC users.
Note to PC users who've been loudly trumpeting USB: if USB peripherals
start to show up along with the iMac, don't forget to thank Apple for
coming up with something useful to do with that port on the back of your
machine.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My greatest fear is that I won't be misunderstood." --Oscar Wilde
Steve Hix
In article <6ivkhk$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
> In article <stevehix-070...@ip58.safemail.com>,
stev...@safemail.com (Steve Hix) wrote:
> > The iMac is aimed at new users...who aren't likely to *have* printers, etc.
> > It's not aimed at you.
> > > there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
> > People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
> Albeit, more expensive...
That's the way the market goes.
You could even settle for a used machine if price is *that* critical.
Chad Irby
NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
> Lots of people don't write Mac drivers.
Yes. But waaaaay too many people are trying (and failing) to write
Windows drivers.
And writing a floppy or printer driver for a USB machine is a whole lot
different that writing a 3D graphics card driver...
"Gee, we have a whole slew of USB gadgets that we can't sell to the
Windows people. Apple just came out with a nifty new machine that we can
sell a *boatload* of these things for. You think we should spend a week
or two to write a floppy driver?" "Naah. We'd just end up making money
for a change. Who wants that?"
Chad Irby
jay...@netaxs.com wrote:
> att...@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
>
> | Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it.
>
> MacCentral has quoted Apple spokesman Russell Brady thusly:
>
> * "Apple will not be offering a floppy disk drive
> * configuration or external floppy disk drive for
> * iMac."
On the other hand, MacOS Rumors has confirmed a USB floppy in the works.
I guess they changed their minds, or someone forgot to read a page or two
of product announcement.
Either way, the aftermarket crowd has a good three months to write that
complicated ol' floppy drive software.
Michael R. Hicks
In article <edremy-ya02408000...@nnrp.usc.edu>,
edr...@chem1.usc.edu (Eric Remy) wrote:
> In article <slrn6l51ma...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org>,
> ja...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org (Jason S.) wrote:
[...]
> Complain all you want, but legacy sells. Apple needs to sell. Personally,
> I like Joe Ragosta's idea of sticking in an LS-120. It's got the cool
> cutting edge thing, but it can also read old floppies. The only problem
> would be boosting the price.
Check this URL:
http://www.maccentral.com/news/9805/08.superdisk.shtml
Imation and Panasonic will have SuperDisk for the iMac.
--
Michael R. Hicks - Louisville, KY
a "new jack" scholar...
http://www.louisville.edu/~mrhick01
Great minds talk about ideas,
Average minds talk about events,
Small minds talk about people...
Of which mind are you?
Ted Brown
In article <cirby-08059...@pm61-43.magicnet.net>,
ci...@magicnet.net (Chad Irby) wrote:
>joe.r...@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) wrote:
>
>> True, but I think LS120 will be more likely. In quantity, it's probably
>> not that much more than a floppy drive and is much more useful.
>
>Much more so with a USB port. Parallel port mass storage (like a lot of
>those PC LS-120s and Zips) is just *way* too slow.
I don't really pay all that much attention to the speed of PC parallel
ports -- but I thought that the newest rev of the port (IEEE something or
other) went up to 2MB/sec. Maybe someone in the know could spell out the
real bit rates. I've heard of ~1 MB/sec transfers to Parallel port Zip
drives.
USB is only 12Mbs (~1.5 MB/sec, but you'll never see that in practice).
People keep talking like USB is fast an all, and it's reasonably fast for
one device, but lacking when compared to SCSI (even vanilla SCSI) or
Firewire.
Unless I'm wrong -- USB is not faster than the parallel port (or it's on
the same order). It does support multiple devices better and you get two
of them instead of only one. Still, that means that with serveral
devices sharing the bus, you'll get a lower apparent speed. You can
mitigate this by spreading the bandwidth hogs accross the two ports, but
that ceases to work when you get >2 bandwidth hogs -- say like scanner,
printer, and removable storage.
Still, USB will not give me the peformance of the rotten old SCSI on my
6100 (5MB/sec). Even best bandwidth of the two USB ports is 3MB/sec, and
that's not available to a device as a peak burst. Maybe the isochronous
support will make things like printers and scanners take better advantage
of the bandwidth given. I'm not sure that anyone outside of some testing
labs really know (but would love to be proven wrong).
--
Ted Brown tbr...@netset.com
Jayfar
In article <cirby-08059...@pm61-08.magicnet.net>,
ci...@magicnet.net (Chad Irby) wrote:
| jay...@netaxs.com wrote:
|
| > att...@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
| >
| > | Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it.
| >
| > MacCentral has quoted Apple spokesman Russell Brady thusly:
| >
| > * "Apple will not be offering a floppy disk drive
| > * configuration or external floppy disk drive for
| > * iMac."
|
| On the other hand, MacOS Rumors has confirmed a USB floppy in the works.
|
| I guess they changed their minds, or someone forgot to read a page or two
| of product announcement.
|
| Either way, the aftermarket crowd has a good three months to write that
| complicated ol' floppy drive software.
Excellent breaking news on that front, in an Imation/Panasonic press release:
<URL:http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980508/imation_2_1.html>
! Company Press Release
!
! Imation and Panasonic Announce Joint Development of
! Superdisk Drive For USB Interface
!
! Availability To Coincide With First Shipments Of New Apple
! iMac Computer
!
! OAKDALE, Minn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 8, 1998--Imation Corp.
! (NYSE: IMN - news) and Panasonic Industrial Company will
! develop the first SuperDisk drive for the Universal Serial
! Bus (USB) interface, officials of both companies announced
! today.
!
! The announcement follows Wednesday's unveiling by Apple
! Computer of its new consumer Macintosh, iMac, which will
! feature two USB ports for peripherals. iMac will begin to
! ship in August, the same time frame in which USB SuperDisk
! drives also are expected to be available to iMac purchasers.
! Additionally, SuperDisk diskettes for the USB SuperDisk
! drive will be available through Imation's sales channels at
! that time.
!
! The USB SuperDisk drive, like other SuperDisk drives, will
! be fully read/write compatible with today's PC-formatted 120
! MB SuperDisk diskettes, 1.44 MB diskettes and 720 KB
! diskettes. It will also read and write existing
! Mac-formatted diskettes and Mac-formatted SuperDisk
! diskettes.
!
! Further information about USB SuperDisk drive pricing will
! be forthcoming, officials added.
!
! ``As one of the co-developers of SuperDisk technology,
! Panasonic is pleased to lead in the development of yet
! another entry in the growing array of SuperDisk solutions,''
! said Jeff Saake, general manager, computer components group,
! Panasonic Industrial Company. ``The USB SuperDisk drive will
! be the logical storage choice for millions of iMac customers
! who adopt this innovative new product.''
!
! ``With the impressive speed and power of iMac, users will be
! able to handle very large amounts of data in the form of
! graphics, sound and video files, and Internet downloads,''
! said Ray Meifert, SuperDisk business director, Imation.
! ``For millions of loyal Mac users, compatibility with
! existing floppies is critical. Among available,
! high-capacity storage options, SuperDisk technology offers
! the advantage of compatibility with existing diskettes as
! well as 120 MB SuperDisk diskettes from Imation. We believe
! that iMac users will find USB SuperDisk technology as the
! best and most reliable tool to handle those high-capacity
! needs without giving up what they're used to using --
! standard 3.5-inch diskettes.''
!
! ``We designed iMac to deliver all the things consumers want
! -- the excitement of the Internet with the simplicity of a
! Macintosh,'' said Phil Schiller, vice president of worldwide
! product marketing at Apple Computer Inc [Nasdaq:AAPL -
! news]. ``Today's announcement from Imation and Panasonic
! shows that -- at launch -- iMac customers will have great
! add-on options to complement the Internet-age computer for
! the rest of us.''
!
! Panasonic Industrial Company (PIC), a division of Matsushita
! Electric Corporation of America, has a long and
! distinguished history of serving the North American
! manufacturing sector. PIC's aim is to support local
! manufacturing with products, technologies, and services that
! promote its customers' immediate and long term goals. PIC's
! OEM industrial electronic components and subsystems are
! geared to a diverse range of industries. PIC operates as a
! marketing interface between its North American customers and
! the Matsushita Group's global manufacturing capabilities.
!
! Imation Corp. supplies a variety of products and services
! worldwide for the imaging and information industry. Imation
! is a world-leading supplier of branded, removable media for
! data storage applications. Imation products are supported by
! a worldwide customer service organization. In 1997, the
! company generated revenues of $2.2 billion. Imation employs
! approximately 9,500 people and is based in Oakdale, Minn.
!
! Additional information about Imation is available on the
! company's Web site at www.imation.com or by calling Imation
! toll-free at 1-888-466-3456.
Now if only Apple would offer it as a built-in option.
Matthew Vaughan
In article <atticus-0805...@user-38lcauj.dialup.mindspring.com>,
att...@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
> The above quote seems to imply that Apple expects third-party peripherals;
> and if the iMac sells, there will be enough of a market that USB
> peripherals will finally become a reality for Mac and PC users.
I think this is important - we're not used to having the choice of any old
industry standard printer, scanner, camera, joystick, mouse, etc. While
they still need drivers, this is the first time ever that they've used the
same connectors as PC peripherals. Getting a peripheral may become more
like getting a hard drive or monitor toady, compared to the past, where
you had to live with a small selection of Mac-specific peripherals.
....................................................
MATTHEW VAUGHAN
matthewv at best dot com (damn spammers...)
http://www.best.com/~matthewv/
....................................................
Goin' Nova
It'll be a while before used G3's are significantly lower than a new one.
By then, everyone'll want the G4.
Matthew Cromer
In article <B178000...@206.165.43.10> Lawson English,
eng...@primenet.com writes:
>Hey, I would LOVE to own a car with a hand-crank. They're VERY cool. Total
>status symbol, dude.
>
Dude, they also broke people's arms on a regular basis.
MC
Matthew Cromer
In article <joe.ragosta-08...@wil101.dol.net> Joe Ragosta,
joe.r...@dol.net writes:
>True, but I think LS120 will be more likely. In quantity, it's probably
>not that much more than a floppy drive and is much more useful.
The review that I read of the LS120 gave it one star--a failing grade.
It seems that it was slow as molassas and unreliable.
MC
Matthew Cromer
In article <35532528...@no-spam.lmco.com> Michael Benedetti,
mike.be...@no-spam.lmco.com writes:
>The IMAC market is *not* people who already own a Mac! It is not even people
>who already own a computer! This is an *entry level* machine. I own a
>9500/200 with every peripheral under the sun. Why would I buy an IMAC? Geez,
>the nitpicks from people on the subject of the Imac are getting to be inane.
I own a G3 233 jumped to 266, a Quadra 700, a IIci, and a Powerbook 180.
I will damn well get an iMac for my son who is now stuck with the Quadra.
We already have improv ethernet
in my house, shared internet via IPNetRouter, and the iMac will be a
perfect addition. With a new G3
powerbook we all will be cooking with gas.
I expect a lot of Mac houses will be adding an iMac to their existing
collection of Macs. With ethernet
(very easy and cheap to add) you can access a floppy on one of the other
computers if you ever
want to, and also access a legacy printer.
MC
Matthew Cromer
In article <edremy-ya02408000...@nnrp.usc.edu> Eric Remy,
edr...@chem1.usc.edu writes:
>Yeah, I know. It's just so _stupid_ to want to be able to back up my
>Quicken files.
Anyone who trusts floppy media as a backup is asking for trouble
And why would I ever want to keep my old trackball and
>printer when I can buy shiny new ones?
This is a legitimate beef, but you can share the printer on a network
from your existing Mac.
Matthew Cromer
Matthew Cromer
In article <MPG.fbccc01e...@news.itg.ti.com> Jason McNorton,
jm...@msg.ti.com writes:
>Joe, the way you advertise and talk you sound like such a shill. I
>supposed it's possible that you are what you say, but it seems less
>likely every time you preach Apple's song.
>
>--
>A world without the Mac is a step closer to utopia.
And you Jason win friends and influence people with that cogent,
brilliant, persuasive .sig of yours
which is so obviously designed to promote reasoned debate and meaningful
dialogue.
MC
Joe Ragosta
> Complain all you want, but legacy sells. Apple needs to sell. Personally,
> I like Joe Ragosta's idea of sticking in an LS-120. It's got the cool
> cutting edge thing, but it can also read old floppies. The only problem
> would be boosting the price.
Apparntly, Imation and Panasonic liked it, too.
There are several advantages with this setup:
1. It's optional, so people who don't want it don't spend the money.
2. Since it's not standard, the iMac becomes a solid potential business
computer (if they offer different color configurations, perhaps). No
floppy will reduce the tendency to bring junk from home. More importantly,
it adds security--you don't need to worry about users stealing company
data.
3. Since LS-120 is not standard on PCs, a USB LS120 drive will have a
market on both platforms. That should drive volume enough to keep the cost
down.
Sounds like a real winner.
--
Regards,
Joe Ragosta
See the Complete Macintosh Advocacy Page
http://www.dol.net/~Ragosta/complmac.htm
Joe Ragosta
In article <6ivkp7$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
> In article <joe.ragosta-08...@wil101.dol.net>,
joe.r...@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) wrote:
>
> > In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> > J Goos) wrote:
> >
> > > Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> > > the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
> > > various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
> > > USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
> >
> > So don't buy your peripherals from Apple.
> >
> > Back in the days when a second floppy drive was useful, lots of people
> > sold external drives for Macs. Lots of people sell keyboards, mice,
> > trackballs, etc. Lots of people sell video cards (Apple dropped out of
> > this market entirely when they switched to PCI).
>
> Lots of people don't write Mac drivers.
And lots do. What's your point?
Goos stated that you'd have to buy peripherals from Apple. I pointed out
that third party peripherals have always been available for the Mac.
Do you have any reason to suggest that third party support for the Mac is
going to disappear with the introduction of the iMac--especially when
Apple has gone to industry standard USB?
>
> >What makes you think that
> > it's going to be _harder_ to get peripherals now that Apple has switched
> > to the industry standard USB? That just doesn't make sense.
>
> He didn't say harder, he said more expensive. And, initially at least, this
> should be the case.
Why? Imation and Panasonic have announced LS120 drives for USB. That will
be the same drive on Macs and Windows. Why would the Mac version be more
expensive? Zip drives aren't.
Furthermore, this example disproves your point. Apple isn't even offering
the drive--so there's no way to buy the "more expensive Apple peripheral".
Chad Irby
tbr...@netset.com (Ted Brown) wrote:
> I don't really pay all that much attention to the speed of PC parallel
> ports -- but I thought that the newest rev of the port (IEEE something or
> other) went up to 2MB/sec. Maybe someone in the know could spell out the
> real bit rates. I've heard of ~1 MB/sec transfers to Parallel port Zip
> drives.
I've heard of them too.
Unfortunately, I've never seen them. I have, however, seen an 80 meg file
transfer (~100 files overall) from a Pentium-II 300 machine to a Zip drive
that took almost 40 miuntes. I thought it was something wrong with that
particular machine, but it's unfortunately way too common. The best I've
seen a parallel Zip manage with a large Zip transfer was about 15 minutes
with about 75 megs of files.
You also have to remember that the computer's port isn't the limiting
factor- the Zip's parallel port is a roadblock, too. That's why parallel
port devices are so cheap- they're pretty much still 1960s technology...
Chad Irby
Matthew Cromer <matthew...@iname.com> wrote:
> Joe Ragosta writes:
> >True, but I think LS120 will be more likely. In quantity, it's probably
> >not that much more than a floppy drive and is much more useful.
>
> The review that I read of the LS120 gave it one star--a failing grade.
>
> It seems that it was slow as molassas and unreliable.
In other words, a typical cheap PC device. And for some reason, PC users
are buying them anyway.
On the other hand, the Zip is either slow as molasses (in parallel
version) or moderately slow (in SCSI mode), and only somewhat unreliable
(click of death, anyone?).
Removable storage is, by and large, slow and unreliable, unlees you spend
more than a couple of hundred bucks. That's how it works.
Chad Irby
Matthew Cromer <matthew...@iname.com> wrote:
> eng...@primenet.com writes:
> >Hey, I would LOVE to own a car with a hand-crank. They're VERY cool. Total
> >status symbol, dude.
>
> Dude, they also broke people's arms on a regular basis.
...but a *real* car user would learn how to work with just one arm! You
just can't get the same performance with a GUI, er, electric starter...
Steve Hix
In article <6j0tc1$tu0$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, Matthew Cromer
> >Hey, I would LOVE to own a car with a hand-crank. They're VERY cool. Total
> >status symbol, dude.
> Dude, they also broke people's arms on a regular basis.
If you didn't use them right. (Usually your thumb went...)
We used to have a '53 Hilman. It came with a crank, just in case
the battery went flat. My dad used to start it with the crank
occasionally, "just because". It would occasionally also kick
back, but never resulted in any injury to him.
It made me think that electric start was a good idea...
Goin' Nova
Assuming he doesn't have to sell the old Mac to buy the new one....
Goin' Nova
> In article <6ivkp7$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
> NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
>
> > In article <joe.ragosta-08...@wil101.dol.net>,
> joe.r...@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) wrote:
> >
> > > In article <6itv6f$nt0$2...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
> > > J Goos) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> > > > the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
> > > > various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
> > > > USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
> > > > all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
> > >
> > > So don't buy your peripherals from Apple.
> > >
> > > Back in the days when a second floppy drive was useful, lots of people
> > > sold external drives for Macs. Lots of people sell keyboards, mice,
> > > trackballs, etc. Lots of people sell video cards (Apple dropped out of
> > > this market entirely when they switched to PCI).
> >
> > Lots of people don't write Mac drivers.
>
> And lots do. What's your point?
>
> Goos stated that you'd have to buy peripherals from Apple. I pointed out
> that third party peripherals have always been available for the Mac.
Actually Joe, that's how you interpreted it. I read it as follows (re-worded for clarity):
"Given the history of high-priced peripherals for Apple products,". One can make a case for either interpretation.
>
> Do you have any reason to suggest that third party support for the Mac is
> going to disappear with the introduction of the iMac--especially when
> Apple has gone to industry standard USB?
I dunno Joe, developers haven't exactly been flocking to the Mac, hardware or
software.
>
> >
> > >What makes you think that
> > > it's going to be _harder_ to get peripherals now that Apple has switched
> > > to the industry standard USB? That just doesn't make sense.
> >
> > He didn't say harder, he said more expensive. And, initially at least, this
> > should be the case.
>
> Why? Imation and Panasonic have announced LS120 drives for USB. That will
> be the same drive on Macs and Windows. Why would the Mac version be more
> expensive? Zip drives aren't.
>
Mousesticks are. HP printers are. Scanners can be (have been). Hell, there even was a point in time where formatted floppies for Mac's were more expensive.
> Furthermore, this example disproves your point. Apple isn't even offering
> the drive--so there's no way to buy the "more expensive Apple peripheral".
Wasn't my point. My point is that, given like peripherals for Mac/PC, the Mac
peripherals have been higher priced than a product for the PC. Maybe USB will change history. Maybe not. We will, after all, have to wait and see.
Kreme
> Andy Walton (att...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
> : Apple's planning a USB floppy drive, for them what wants it. I'd have to
> : assume that some sort of USB/LocalTalk adapter is in the works, especially
> : since they're aiming at education -- there's your Newton and printer
> : connection. Any other problems?
>
> Given Apple's history for high-priced peripherals, the entire advantage of
> the iMac (power + cheap price) disappears. By the time you add the
> various peripherals (USB floppy drive), and adapters (USB/Local talk plus
> USB/SCSI adapters), there will be no savings at all over the nice
> all-in-one G3 Power Mac Apple has now.
First of all, Apple isn't the one making a USB floppy or a USB superdrive,
second of all IF YOU NEED ALL THAT WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU BUY AN iMAC?
Why? The machine is not made for you. It's not made for your needs.
It's not even being marketed at you. I would never buy one for myself,
but I might buy one for my wife and ethernet it to my G3MT. Why not, it's
perfect for her? Heck, I may buy one for my business to run my Quickbooks
and my Filemaker Apps just because it will take up so little space.
Neither of these locations need (or want) a floppy.
Kreme
> NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
>
> > Lots of people don't write Mac drivers.
>
> Yes. But waaaaay too many people are trying (and failing) to write
> Windows drivers.
>
> And writing a floppy or printer driver for a USB machine is a whole lot
> different that writing a 3D graphics card driver...
>
> "Gee, we have a whole slew of USB gadgets that we can't sell to the
> Windows people. Apple just came out with a nifty new machine that we can
> sell a *boatload* of these things for. You think we should spend a week
> or two to write a floppy driver?" "Naah. We'd just end up making money
> for a change. Who wants that?"
I want to know when I can buy a USB PCI card....
Steve Hix
In article <nosp-ya02368000...@news.jump.net>, no...@m.cx
(user) wrote:
> In article <6it7h9$pj8$1...@node2.nodak.edu>, (Robert J Goos) wrote:
> >The power and price of this thing are fantastic. However, Apple has made
> >several BIG MISTAKES in its design, which alienate a LOT of potential
> >users, like me.
> Does it have Torx screws - or whatever those screws were that Steve Jobs
> used in the bad old days to prevent consumers from opening the case?
If that was the reason for using Torx, it failed miserably. (The trick was
finding
one with a long shaft.) If he wanted to prevent them from being opened, there
are several one-way fasteners on the market.
There are a lot of good reasons for using Torx over phillips or flat-blade
drivers; they're much less likely to strip out in use. They seem to be showing
up fairly often in cars these days.
Kreme
In article <6ivkhk$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
NeedALight?@NOT.netcom.com (Goin' Nova) wrote:
> In article <stevehix-070...@ip58.safemail.com>,
stev...@safemail.com (Steve Hix) wrote:
> > People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
>
> Albeit, more expensive...
Not much more expensive, considering what you get. ASnd remember, the
iMac is still three months off.
Kreme
In article <6itvla$nt0$3...@node2.nodak.edu>, go...@badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert
J Goos) wrote:
> Chad Irby (ci...@magicnet.net) wrote:
>
> : You would. Try thinking about how someone who doesn't have all of your
> : legacy hardware will look at it. "Gee, I could plug in my new USB
> : printer, my new USB Zip drive, and my new USB 2 gig Orb drive. Then I
> : could plug in my new ADSL connection through the ethernet connecter, and
> : my kids could email their homework to themselves at school so I don't have
> : to worry about them losing a floppy on the way to class."
>
> Since when does a new scanner or Zip drive qualify as "Legacy" equipment?
> How many first-time Mac users have any clue what an "Orb drive" is? My 14
> year old son came home from school today and said, "Did you hear that
> there's a new Mac that doesn't even come with a floppy drive? How stupid
> is that???" It makes the computer a joke from the beginning. By saving a
> few bucks, they automatically give the iMac a bad name. National Public
> Radio had an article on the iMac today. The headline, "Apple is making a
> new low-cost Macintosh...but a floppy drive will cost you extra." Most of
> the interview of an expert was focused, not on the speed of the machine,
> but whether or not people will accept a machine without a floppy drive.
> It was a major tactical mistake on Apple's part. They are on the
> defensive from the get-go on this one.
I disagree. This is not 1988 or even 1994. This is 1998, just about
everything is available on CD-ROM. Floppies are, for all intents and
purposes, obsolete. As I've said previsouly in another post, the only
time I've used the floppy drive on my last THREE Macs was to install
SpeedDoubler, the only piece of software I have that requires a floppy.
And I'm done with that as of now. If SpeedDoubler for 8.2 won't install
of a CD or an image, I won't be installing it.
When I exchange files between computers, I use email. It's much faster to
right-click a file, choose "mail" and type in and address and hit
command-E than it is to try to find a floppy, copy the file, etc etc.
There's a whole network out there, USE IT. Have a report you need to take
to school? Mail it to yourself, duh!
Kreme
> In article <slrn6l51ma...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org>,
> ja...@jhste1.dyn.ml.org (Jason S.) wrote:
>
>
> > My how the PC world clings to its anachronisms.
>
> Yeah, I know. It's just so _stupid_ to want to be able to back up my
> Quicken files. And why would I ever want to keep my old trackball and
> printer when I can buy shiny new ones?
>
> For that matter, I _really_ hope that they can Blue Box for Rhapsody. Why
> would I ever want to run legacy Mac software? Ick.
>
> Complain all you want, but legacy sells. Apple needs to sell. Personally,
> I like Joe Ragosta's idea of sticking in an LS-120. It's got the cool
> cutting edge thing, but it can also read old floppies. The only problem
> would be boosting the price.
Which is wh this will be an external device. An add-on. Now, I wouldn't
be suprised to see a nifty co-markeing scheme with a rebate thrown in, but
I think it would be a mistake to make a LS-120 part of the default
configuration. I know I would be less likely to buy one.
And remember, this machine is not for people with legacy equipment -- it's
aimed squarely at the new buyer.
Chad Irby
kr...@SPAM.kreme.com (Kreme) wrote:
> I want to know when I can buy a USB PCI card....
Now, evidently.
http://www.usbstuff.com/mboards.htm
Happy?
Steve Hix
In article <kreme-10059...@kreme.com>, kr...@SPAM.kreme.com
> > In article <stevehix-070...@ip58.safemail.com>,
> stev...@safemail.com (Steve Hix) wrote:
> > > People like yourself would be better served with a different machine.
> > Albeit, more expensive...
Well, you want/need more than is included in the iMac, you'd
expect to pay more.
this really isn't rocket science.
Goin' Nova
Actually, I want less. Doesn't mean it'll cost less though...
>
> this really isn't rocket science.
Indeed.
Goin' Nova
My kids school has a computer lab populated with Apple II's. WHy doncha tell
lower education all about what is or is not obsolete?
>
> When I exchange files between computers, I use email. It's much faster to
> right-click a file, choose "mail" and type in and address and hit
> command-E than it is to try to find a floppy, copy the file, etc etc.
> There's a whole network out there, USE IT. Have a report you need to take
> to school? Mail it to yourself, duh!
How many schools are currently on the 'net? Go ahead, give us a wag. 50%?
And to those that aren't, the answer will be "sorry, you'll just have to wait
until you get on the net?"