iPhone Bombing -
Dr zara
zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
Edwin
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/24/analyst_claims_iphone_d...
>
> zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
"Based on our store checks, we believe that demand for the iPhone has
seen a significant decline in the past 10 days," analyst Ittai Kidron
told clients. "We have noticed decent inventories at stores, and thin
demand at best. In fact, most Apple store visitors were not looking at
the device and only a very small subset bought it."
The iPhone hasn't even been out a month and it's ALREADY in decline!
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Oxford's got to step up his efforts. He's got to let the public know
that if they can find a coffee shop across the street from a
Starbucks, WiFi will really rock on that $600 iPhone!
Belphegor
Edwin, Edwin, did you really believe that Apple would continue to sell
1,500 iPhones every minute as they did in the last quarter?
And you are putting far to much trust in people hanging out in stores
leering at customers.
You really shouldn't blame people for treating you in a condescending
manner. :D
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Is Vista sales going up or down compared to when it was first released?
--
Sandman[.net]
Edwin
> On Jul 25, 10:31 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 3:23 pm, "Dr zara" <jack...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/24/analyst_claims_iphone_d...
>
> > > zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
>
> > "Based on our store checks, we believe that demand for the iPhone has
> > seen a significant decline in the past 10 days," analyst Ittai Kidron
> > told clients. "We have noticed decent inventories at stores, and thin
> > demand at best. In fact, most Apple store visitors were not looking at
> > the device and only a very small subset bought it."
>
> > The iPhone hasn't even been out a month and it's ALREADY in decline!
>
> > BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
>
> > Oxford's got to step up his efforts. He's got to let the public know
> > that if they can find a coffee shop across the street from a
> > Starbucks, WiFi will really rock on that $600 iPhone!
>
> Edwin, Edwin, did you really believe that Apple would continue to sell
> 1,500 iPhones every minute as they did in the last quarter?
Apple must have thought so. Their stores are full of unsold iPhone
inventory with visitors not even bothering to look at them.
> And you are putting far to much trust in people hanging out in stores
> leering at customers.
WTF is wrong with your head? I haven't been cheering for iPhone
sales. I was shocked at Apple's claim they got 500,000 suckers to
buy an iPhone. We now know that Apple lied about that, they didn't
even get 200,000 sales before the iPhone went into decline.
> You really shouldn't blame people for treating you in a condescending
> manner. :D
You need a check up from the neck up.
Edwin
> In article <1185399075.006369.7...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Your attempt to divert attention away from the failure of the iPhone
is futile.
There's just not enough stupid people out there who have enough money
to pay $600 for a phone, plus $1440 (or more) for a two year plan to
run it, along with a $36 activation fee. Especially not for a dog-
slow phone that's already been hacked!
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> > > > zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
> >
> > > "Based on our store checks, we believe that demand for the iPhone has
> > > seen a significant decline in the past 10 days," analyst Ittai Kidron
> > > told clients. "We have noticed decent inventories at stores, and thin
> > > demand at best. In fact, most Apple store visitors were not looking at
> > > the device and only a very small subset bought it."
> >
> > > The iPhone hasn't even been out a month and it's ALREADY in decline!
> >
> > > BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
> >
> > > Oxford's got to step up his efforts. He's got to let the public know
> > > that if they can find a coffee shop across the street from a
> > > Starbucks, WiFi will really rock on that $600 iPhone!
> >
> > Is Vista sales going up or down compared to when it was first released?
>
> Your attempt to divert attention away from the failure of the iPhone
> is futile.
Hehe, actually, I was trying to put this huge "failure" into
perspective. If a products sells more units per day when it is
released than after a couple of weeks, it's a failure to you,
apparently. After the point of release, sales should only go up, I
presume?
> There's just not enough stupid people out there who have enough money
> to pay $600 for a phone, plus $1440 (or more) for a two year plan to
> run it, along with a $36 activation fee. Especially not for a dog-
> slow phone that's already been hacked!
Sounds reasonable. I think most are buying iPhones instead anyway. :-D
--
Sandman[.net]
Sandman
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> I was shocked at Apple's claim they got 500,000 suckers to
> buy an iPhone.
Ah, now if there was just some way you could back that one up :)
> We now know that Apple lied about that, they didn't
> even get 200,000 sales before the iPhone went into decline.
Actually, according to Apple, they sold 270 000 units during the first
30 hours it was on sale. That was on the first thirty hours. I.e. it
doesn't count any sales from their online store.
I'm sure you'll say that iPhone sales are tanking unless Apple keeps
selling 270 000 units every thirty hours. Or more, rather - or they
would be "stagnant". Right? :)
--
Sandman[.net]
John C. Randolph
> The iPhone hasn't even been out a month and it's ALREADY in decline!
Wishing doesn't make it so, eddie. I just listened to the earnings
call, and the iPhone is selling better than any phone before it.
-jcr
MuahMan
"Dr zara" <jac...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:biOpi.516$ij7...@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/24/analyst_claims_iphone_demand_slowing_but_3g_model_in_cards.html
>
> zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
>
LOL@ Mactards. Apple is rushing out the next-gen phone. Then in two months
all the fanbois will buy another iPhone. Then in two months another one.
They have to keep milking the few hundred thousand people stupid enough to
buy their shit product. Since they don't attract any new sane customers they
have to milk the fanbois like Oxtard, witfal, and the other Down Syndrome
tards.
Belphegor
Easy, easy! Keep your sense of humour, nobody is trying to rile you.
Now, just to show that I am prepared to listen, lets compare the data
we have and which numbers we use as a basis for our apparently
differing analysis.
The figures I could gather from Apple and AT&T refer to a specific
period at the end of the last financial quarter, i.e. Friday the 29th,
from 6pm and Sat the 30th 12pm.
AT&T claim they sold 140,000 new contracts, and Apple claim they
sold 270,000 during that period.
The targets that Apple set for the end of 2008 was 10m iPhones. Steve
Jobs said that they expect to sell 1 million iPhones by September.
I do not know whether you realise that between 6pm, 29th, and 12pm,
30th is only 30 hours.
If we believe AT&T's assertion that they sold 140,000 contracts that
means they sold 4,600 contracts each hour...
Apple said they sold 270,000 units during that time, 90,000 each hour
of the 30 hour period.
Now, I hope you realise that this is not necessarily a contradiction.
The iPhone does not require you to take out a contract. It is easy to
circumvent the AT&T shackles as has been widely publicised. I am sure
you are aware of that.
What do you base your figures on? Some investment bank doing an
'inhouse survey' and sending out a couple of people to their local
Apple Store?
Please don't disappoint me and give me something that is a bit more
verifiable.
Belphegor
May I correct my numbers to say 9000 each hour, 150 each minute...
you have to get this right, else somebody in here is gonna be able to
do math here and bite your neck off :)
Alan Baker
May I point you to a perfect example of you claiming something as a
shortcoming for Apple (the alleged slowing of iPhone sales) and refusing
to accept the same for Microsoft (the alleged slowing of Vista sales).
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Mitch
Belphegor <hue...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now, just to show that I am prepared to listen, lets compare the data
> we have and which numbers we use as a basis for our apparently
> differing analysis.
Cool; I'll go along.
> The figures I could gather from Apple and AT&T refer to a specific
> period at the end of the last financial quarter, i.e. Friday the 29th,
> from 6pm and Sat the 30th 12pm.
>
> AT&T claim they sold 140,000 new contracts, and Apple claim they
> sold 270,000 during that period.
Close. AT&T said they had 146,000 activations, and Apple said they
shipped 270,000 units.
> The targets that Apple set for the end of 2008 was 10m iPhones. Steve
> Jobs said that they expect to sell 1 million iPhones by September.
>
> I do not know whether you realise that between 6pm, 29th, and 12pm,
> 30th is only 30 hours.
>
> If we believe AT&T's assertion that they sold 140,000 contracts that
> means they sold 4,600 contracts each hour...
>
> Apple said they sold 270,000 units during that time, 90,000 each hour
> of the 30 hour period.
Well, since Apple's includes all units shipped, it will include the AT&T
numbers and it isn't just during those last hours.
> Now, I hope you realise that this is not necessarily a contradiction.
> The iPhone does not require you to take out a contract. It is easy to
> circumvent the AT&T shackles as has been widely publicised. I am sure
> you are aware of that.
But that's probably vanishingly insignificant. There are more important
differences -- people buying more but activating one, people delaying
activation a few hours, younger people buying them but not meeting
credit requirements the first way they try.
Mitch
Randolph <jcr.n...@nospam.mac.com> wrote:
Sure, but it's also in decline.
How could it be otherwise?
Do people really assume the sales rate for an item that people were
anxiously waiting for can do anything but have a big burst of sales and
then slow?
It's the same as for a mainstream pop movie -- they push advertising to
get a big first weekend, and everything after that is gravy.
Yes, the movie sells fewer tickets each successive week.
Same with that same movie when it is released on DVD; big sales the
first week, much lower afterward. (Until something else changes, like
price drops or Christmas.)
Do these people think their 'it's in decline' rants really mean
something? Did they assume we believed otherwise?
KDT
> "Dr zara" <jack...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:biOpi.516$ij7...@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>
> >http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/24/analyst_claims_iphone_d...
>
> > zaras crystal ball says: I told you so.
>
> LOL@ Mactards. Apple is rushing out the next-gen phone. Then in two months
> all the fanbois will buy another iPhone. Then in two months another one.
> They have to keep milking the few hundred thousand people stupid enough to
> buy their shit product. Since they don't attract any new sane customers they
> have to milk the fanbois like Oxtard, witfal, and the other Down Syndrome
> tards.
So what does that say about all of the Windows users buying iPods?
KDT
So when did Apple make any claim about iPhone sells before today?
Dr zara
"KDT" <scarf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185419367.2...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
We know a good thing when we see it.
Tim Murray
>> I was shocked at Apple's claim they got 500,000 suckers to
>> buy an iPhone.
>
> So when did Apple make any claim about iPhone sells before today?
>
Good catch, even if Edwin does tend to just toss them in your boat.
Edwin
> In article <1185401674.136789.4...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Why should I accept that as "the same for Microsoft" without any
support given to show Vista sales slowed within the first two weeks of
its launch?
You provided (as well as pointed to) a "perfect example" of Mac
Advocate lies, hypocrisy, and stupidity.
Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.
Alan Baker
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
You don't have to accept that it's true, but you have to accept that
*if* it's true, then it's just as much a shortcoming for Vista as it is
for the iPhone.
>
> You provided (as well as pointed to) a "perfect example" of Mac
> Advocate lies, hypocrisy, and stupidity.
>
> Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
> market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.
Funny how you want to restrict which music players you'll compare the
Zune against, but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
every possible type....
Edwin
> In article <1185478175.519962.105...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
No, I don't have to accept Sandman's fantasy, nor even give it a
moment of consideration, other than as an example of Mac Advocate
lies, stupidity, and hypocrisy.
>
>
> > You provided (as well as pointed to) a "perfect example" of Mac
> > Advocate lies, hypocrisy, and stupidity.
>
> > Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
> > market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.
>
> Funny how you want to restrict which music players you'll compare the
> Zune against,
It's the same restrictions that give the iPod 80% of the market.
Strange how you call equal criteria "strange..."
> but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> every possible type....
Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
lousy service?
Alan Baker
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
LOL
>
> >
> >
> > > You provided (as well as pointed to) a "perfect example" of Mac
> > > Advocate lies, hypocrisy, and stupidity.
> >
> > > Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
> > > market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.
> >
> > Funny how you want to restrict which music players you'll compare the
> > Zune against,
>
> It's the same restrictions that give the iPod 80% of the market.
> Strange how you call equal criteria "strange..."
That may or may not be (I don't know off hand what the iPod's share of
hard disk players is), but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
it's specific niche share against the iPhone's share over the entire
cell phone market.
That's just plain hypocritical.
>
> > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> > every possible type....
>
> Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> lousy service?
How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
Edwin
> In article <1185481734.060979.208...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Once again you're left without a response.
>
>
> > > > You provided (as well as pointed to) a "perfect example" of Mac
> > > > Advocate lies, hypocrisy, and stupidity.
>
> > > > Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
> > > > market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.
>
> > > Funny how you want to restrict which music players you'll compare the
> > > Zune against,
>
> > It's the same restrictions that give the iPod 80% of the market.
> > Strange how you call equal criteria "strange..."
>
> That may or may not be
What you mean is I'm right, but it's not convenient for you to admit
it.
> (I don't know off hand what the iPod's share of
> hard disk players is),
You ought to, as that's the figure that gives Apple dominance of the
player market. If the iPod is compared against any and all music
players its share is abysmal.
> but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
> it's specific niche share
The same way the iPod gets its share.
> against the iPhone's share over the entire
> cell phone market.
The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
think make it look good.
> That's just plain hypocritical.
Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
else?
>
> > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> > > every possible type....
>
> > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > lousy service?
>
> How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
looking at any and all phones?
KDT
>
> Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
>
And the iMac has 90% of the All-in-One desktop market. The Mac mini
also has close to 80% of the small form factor desktop PC
market...silly ain't it?
> - Show quoted text -
Alan Baker
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Show us the references, Edwin...
>
> > but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
> > it's specific niche share
>
> The same way the iPod gets its share.
>
> > against the iPhone's share over the entire
> > cell phone market.
>
> The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
> think make it look good.
Then the Zune competes against all music players, not just the ones you
think make it look good.
>
> > That's just plain hypocritical.
>
> Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
> else?
> >
> > > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> > > > every possible type....
> >
> > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > lousy service?
> >
> > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
>
> Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> looking at any and all phones?
No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
minimal phone to be potential customers.
Megadave
>> So what does that say about all of the Windows users buying iPods?
>
> We know a good thing when we see it.
Right.. and the iPod is far better than the Zune. We knew you'd admit to it.
How was the rally? Burn a few crosses?
--
The System Has Failed
Edwin
> In article <1185500259.332772.278...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
You show us the references. You're the one who cited the dominance
of the iPod every time I compared it to another player, so you go
ahead and show it dominates under the terms you impose on the Zune,
that is iPod against any and all music players.
>
> > > but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
> > > it's specific niche share
>
> > The same way the iPod gets its share.
>
> > > against the iPhone's share over the entire
> > > cell phone market.
>
> > The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
> > think make it look good.
>
> Then the Zune competes against all music players, not just the ones you
> think make it look good.
Not as long as you keep restricting what competes against the iPod so
you can inflate its market share. The Zune gets the same benefits
as does the iPod, regardless of your attempts to deny it.
>
>
>
> > > That's just plain hypocritical.
>
> > Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
> > else?
>
> > > > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> > > > > every possible type....
>
> > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > > lousy service?
>
> > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
>
> > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > looking at any and all phones?
>
> No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> minimal phone to be potential customers.
Sure they do, that's why any company but Apple will give a great deal
on a smart phone.
Mitch
Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > > lousy service?
> > >
> > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
> >
> > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > looking at any and all phones?
>
> No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> minimal phone to be potential customers.
I know it's fruitless, but why do you suppose Edwin is suggesting that
Apple prevents people from looking at other cell phones?
Is he suggesting that by making a phone that is different from others,
they are making it unfair for consumers because other makers aren't
doing it? (Huh?)
Sandman
> > (I don't know off hand what the iPod's share of
> > hard disk players is),
>
> You ought to, as that's the figure that gives Apple dominance of the
> player market. If the iPod is compared against any and all music
> players its share is abysmal.
Abysmal?
So what, if compared to all music players, the iPod (HD and flash
models) amount to what.... 1%? 0.2%?
What is "abysmal" to you?
--
Sandman[.net]
Alan Baker
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Actually, what I said was that your "iPod killers" had done a very poor
job of killing the iPod.
And you tacitly accepted my assessment (not citation, BTW) when you said
that wasn't what you meant by "kill".
Although you never did explain what you *did* mean....
>
> >
> > > > but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
> > > > it's specific niche share
> >
> > > The same way the iPod gets its share.
> >
> > > > against the iPhone's share over the entire
> > > > cell phone market.
> >
> > > The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
> > > think make it look good.
> >
> > Then the Zune competes against all music players, not just the ones you
> > think make it look good.
>
> Not as long as you keep restricting what competes against the iPod so
> you can inflate its market share. The Zune gets the same benefits
> as does the iPod, regardless of your attempts to deny it.
I haven't ever done that.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > > That's just plain hypocritical.
> >
> > > Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
> > > else?
> >
> > > > > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> > > > > > every possible type....
> >
> > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > > > lousy service?
> >
> > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
> >
> > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > > looking at any and all phones?
> >
> > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> > minimal phone to be potential customers.
>
> Sure they do, that's why any company but Apple will give a great deal
> on a smart phone.
And yet, the iPhone is selling like mad...
Edwin
> In article <alangbaker-7200F1.18423426072...@news.telus.net>, Alan
>
> Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > > > lousy service?
>
> > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
>
> > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > > looking at any and all phones?
>
> > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> > minimal phone to be potential customers.
>
> I know it's fruitless, but why do you suppose Edwin is suggesting that
> Apple prevents people from looking at other cell phones?
I suggested no such thing. I responded to Alan's demand that the
iPhone be compared to a limited set of competing phones.
> Is he suggesting that by making a phone that is different from others,
> they are making it unfair for consumers because other makers aren't
> doing it? (Huh?)
Not in any shape or form.
Alan Baker
Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:45 pm, Mitch <mi...@hawaii.rr> wrote:
> > In article <alangbaker-7200F1.18423426072...@news.telus.net>, Alan
> >
> > Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> > > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> > > > > > lousy service?
> >
> > > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
> >
> > > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > > > looking at any and all phones?
> >
> > > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> > > minimal phone to be potential customers.
> >
> > I know it's fruitless, but why do you suppose Edwin is suggesting that
> > Apple prevents people from looking at other cell phones?
>
> I suggested no such thing. I responded to Alan's demand that the
> iPhone be compared to a limited set of competing phones.
Nope. You contrasted the success of the Zune with the success of the
iPhone, except the Zune got compared to a limited set of competing music
players and the iPhone you compared to *all* cell phones.
I called hypocrisy, and it was.
>
> > Is he suggesting that by making a phone that is different from others,
> > they are making it unfair for consumers because other makers aren't
> > doing it? (Huh?)
>
> Not in any shape or form.
--
Mitch
Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> > > > > looking at any and all phones?
> > >
> > > > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a free
> > > > minimal phone to be potential customers.
> > >
> > > I know it's fruitless, but why do you suppose Edwin is suggesting that
> > > Apple prevents people from looking at other cell phones?
> >
> > I suggested no such thing. I responded to Alan's demand that the
> > iPhone be compared to a limited set of competing phones.
>
> Nope. You contrasted the success of the Zune with the success of the
> iPhone, except the Zune got compared to a limited set of competing music
> players and the iPhone you compared to *all* cell phones.
I think you're letting him off too easy.
He wrote that Apple keeps its customers from looking at all phones.
I asked why he was suggesting that Apple prevents people from looking
at other cell phones.
It's pretty direct; it's right at the top here. He's pretending
everyone else can't see that he's a fool.
Edwin
"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-3A2CF...@news.telus.net...
You cited the iPod's market share to say it wasn't an iPod killer. You
challenged me to find another player with as many unit sales.
> And you tacitly accepted my assessment (not citation, BTW) when you said
> that wasn't what you meant by "kill".
No I didn't.
> Although you never did explain what you *did* mean....
Yes I did.
>>
>> >
>> > > > but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
>> > > > it's specific niche share
>> >
>> > > The same way the iPod gets its share.
>> >
>> > > > against the iPhone's share over the entire
>> > > > cell phone market.
>> >
>> > > The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
>> > > think make it look good.
>> >
>> > Then the Zune competes against all music players, not just the ones you
>> > think make it look good.
>>
>> Not as long as you keep restricting what competes against the iPod so
>> you can inflate its market share. The Zune gets the same benefits
>> as does the iPod, regardless of your attempts to deny it.
>
> I haven't ever done that.
Yes you have.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > > That's just plain hypocritical.
>> >
>> > > Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
>> > > else?
>> >
>> > > > > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
>> > > > > > every possible type....
>> >
>> > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
>> > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
>> > > > > lousy service?
>> >
>> > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
>> >
>> > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
>> > > looking at any and all phones?
>> >
>> > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a
>> > free
>> > minimal phone to be potential customers.
>>
>> Sure they do, that's why any company but Apple will give a great deal
>> on a smart phone.
>
> And yet, the iPhone is selling like mad...
Activations have not increased over the initial 146,000.
Edwin
> In article <1185555417.2...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> Edwin <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 26, 11:45 pm, Mitch <mi...@hawaii.rr> wrote:
>> > In article <alangbaker-7200F1.18423426072...@news.telus.net>, Alan
>> >
>> > Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>> > > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
>> > > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with
>> > > > > > a
>> > > > > > lousy service?
>> >
>> > > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
>> >
>> > > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
>> > > > looking at any and all phones?
>> >
>> > > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a
>> > > free
>> > > minimal phone to be potential customers.
>> >
>> > I know it's fruitless, but why do you suppose Edwin is suggesting that
>> > Apple prevents people from looking at other cell phones?
>>
>> I suggested no such thing. I responded to Alan's demand that the
>> iPhone be compared to a limited set of competing phones.
>
> Nope. You contrasted the success of the Zune with the success of the
> iPhone, except the Zune got compared to a limited set of competing music
> players
The same set of players that are used to determine iPod market share.
> and the iPhone you compared to *all* cell phones.
The same thing all other cell phones get compared to.
> I called hypocrisy, and it was.
No, you were wrong... as usual.
[snip]
Edwin
Yes, your undocumented claims are indeed "silly."
KDT
> "KDT" <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Edwin
You mistook your empty insult for documentation of your empty claims.
KDT
> "KDT" <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185769213.7...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 10:29 pm, "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> "KDT" <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1185500472....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Jul 26, 3:29 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk player
> >> >> market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have? Snicker.-
> >> >> Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > And the iMac has 90% of the All-in-One desktop market. The Mac mini
> >> > also has close to 80% of the small form factor desktop PC
> >> > market...silly ain't it?
>
> >> Yes, your undocumented claims are indeed "silly."
> > I knew higher order reasoning was above your comprehension.
>
> You mistook your empty insult for documentation of your empty claims.
It's called analogy...It was stupid of you to brag about the Zune's
11% market share by artificially excluding flash based players. If
not, why would it be any more irrational for Apple to brag about
having sold more all in one computers or small form factor computers
than anyone else?
Alan Baker
"Edwin" <thor...@juno.com> wrote:
Nope. I challenged you to show how your "iPod killers" had in any way
"killed" the iPod.
>
> > And you tacitly accepted my assessment (not citation, BTW) when you said
> > that wasn't what you meant by "kill".
>
> No I didn't.
Yup. You didn't reply that my claims about market share were wrong, you
claimed that it didn't matter that they were what I claimed them to be.
>
> > Although you never did explain what you *did* mean....
>
> Yes I did.
I look forward to your reference to your post containing that
explanation...
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > > but you're making the Zune look good by comparing
> >> > > > it's specific niche share
> >> >
> >> > > The same way the iPod gets its share.
> >> >
> >> > > > against the iPhone's share over the entire
> >> > > > cell phone market.
> >> >
> >> > > The iPhone competes against all cell phones, not just the ones you
> >> > > think make it look good.
> >> >
> >> > Then the Zune competes against all music players, not just the ones you
> >> > think make it look good.
> >>
> >> Not as long as you keep restricting what competes against the iPod so
> >> you can inflate its market share. The Zune gets the same benefits
> >> as does the iPod, regardless of your attempts to deny it.
> >
> > I haven't ever done that.
>
> Yes you have.
Nope. I've insisted that for a product to be an "x killer", then "x"
must be, in some way, killed.
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > > That's just plain hypocritical.
> >> >
> >> > > Where does a hypocrite like you get off throwing that word at anybody
> >> > > else?
> >> >
> >> > > > > > but the iPhone gets compared against every cell phone of
> >> > > > > > every possible type....
> >> >
> >> > > > > Did you want me to compare it only against other overpriced,
> >> > > > > underpowered phones that lock you into a two year contract with a
> >> > > > > lousy service?
> >> >
> >> > > > How about just comparing it to other smart phones?
> >> >
> >> > > Does any other smart phone maker get to keep its customers from
> >> > > looking at any and all phones?
> >> >
> >> > No. But I don't think they consider that someone who wants to get a
> >> > free
> >> > minimal phone to be potential customers.
> >>
> >> Sure they do, that's why any company but Apple will give a great deal
> >> on a smart phone.
> >
> > And yet, the iPhone is selling like mad...
>
> Activations have not increased over the initial 146,000.
We'll remember you said this.
The truth is that activations for AT&T's second quarter haven't
increased, because their second quarter is over.
Edwin
> On Jul 30, 10:00 am, "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>> "KDT" <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185769213.7...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 29, 10:29 pm, "Edwin" <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>> >> "KDT" <scarface...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1185500472....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Jul 26, 3:29 pm, Edwin <thorn...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Vista has 4.5% of the OS market, Zune has 11% of the hard disk
>> >> >> player
>> >> >> market, how much of the cell phone market does Apple have?
>> >> >> Snicker.-
>> >> >> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > And the iMac has 90% of the All-in-One desktop market. The Mac mini
>> >> > also has close to 80% of the small form factor desktop PC
>> >> > market...silly ain't it?
>>
>> >> Yes, your undocumented claims are indeed "silly."
>> > I knew higher order reasoning was above your comprehension.
>>
>> You mistook your empty insult for documentation of your empty claims.
>
> It's called analogy...
Not by anybody who knows the definition of "analogy."
> It was stupid of you to brag about the Zune's
> 11% market share by artificially excluding flash based players.
It's stupid of you to complain that I derived Zune market share the same way
that iPod market share is derived.
> If
> not, why would it be any more irrational for Apple to brag about
> having sold more all in one computers or small form factor computers
> than anyone else?
You mean besides the fact it would be an outright lie?