Today, Apple allows Verizon to sell the iPhone!
Oxford
end of the horrible Android devices.
Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like the
failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
You can sign up for the vPhone here:
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/iphone.jsp
The party starts February 10th!
read more here:
http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/
enjoy!
oxford
Flint
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> end of the horrible Android devices.
<snip>
> enjoy!
>
> oxford
I still haven't decided yet myself, although I have to admit I am
strongly considering it now that Verizon offers the iPhone. I'm well
past my current Verizon contract and am due for an upgrade, and I was
originally holding off at least until CES this year, but now the
Verizon iPhone just complicated my decision process (or, perhaps
simplified it?).
The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a
smartphone, or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
--
-MFB
SMS
> The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a smartphone,
> or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
Wait and see what the pricing is for the Verizon iPhone plans. Are they
going to price service the same as Android devices ($30 for unlimited
data, $15 for 150MB (on top of a minimum $40 a month voice plan)) or are
they going to try to charge more.
Android devices have some advantages over the iPhone and vice-versa.
Personally I use my Droid for the calendar, contact info, and occasional
web use. I use wi-fi when available, and use very little 3G data, so a
$30 a month plan with 1200 minutes/1200 messages/50MB of data on the
Verizon network is sufficient for my needs, and I'm not going to spend
$80 a month for an unlimited data smart phone.
-hh
> On 1/11/2011 1:33 PM, Flint wrote:
>
> > The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a smartphone,
> > or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
>
> Wait and see what the pricing is for the Verizon iPhone plans. Are they
> going to price service the same as Android devices ($30 for unlimited
> data, $15 for 150MB (on top of a minimum $40 a month voice plan)) or are
> they going to try to charge more.
And also wait to see what AT&T counter-offers with.
> Android devices have some advantages over the iPhone and vice-versa.
Of course. But on Androids, I was told (verbally...I haven't looked
to confirm this one yet) that VZW mentioned something about how
they're going to accept returns on "Christmas gift" Androids as trade-
in /upgrades for VZW iPhones.
-hh
Steve Sobol
ap...@pasture.com says...
>
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> end of the horrible Android devices.
My god, you're an idiot.
First, Android is a very capable OS. I love my new Android phone (T-
Mobile HTC MyTouch 4G).
There are a couple things it lacks; Steven Scharf mentioned the lack of
a VPN client, and I agree that that is a problem for enterprise
customers, and it's probably Android's biggest drawback. On the other
hand:
these guys are supposedly working on an Android VPN client. Their
existing VPN client works with Cisco, Sonicwall and other enterprise-
level VPN products.
Second, no one is going to stop buying Android phones.
--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
sjs...@JustThe.net
Flint
> There are a couple things it lacks; Steven Scharf mentioned the lack of
> a VPN client, and I agree that that is a problem for enterprise
> customers, and it's probably Android's biggest drawback. On the other
> hand:
>
> http://www.ncp-e.com/en.html
>
> these guys are supposedly working on an Android VPN client. Their
> existing VPN client works with Cisco, Sonicwall and other enterprise-
> level VPN products.
I heard rumor of the TightVNC folks possibly working on a VPN client.
I haven't been able to confirm this, but it wouldn't surprise me
since there is a TightVNC developmental fork for Android.
--
-MFB
SMS
From what I've read about this, the problem is inherent to the Android
OS, and not Cisco's fault. The IPSEC VPN clients that have appeared have
required rooting the phone and adding some kernel features to the OS,
something no enterprise is going to accept. Every IPSEC VPN solution so
far is phone specific. Steve Jobs was right, the Android market is
fragmented.
As one person wrote about this issue: "I carry an iphone (with VPN) and
an Incredible. The incredible is 100 times the device the 3GS is. But
we're totally frustrated because no one seems to be hearing what we're say."
Flint
> From what I've read about this, the problem is inherent to the
> Android OS, and not Cisco's fault. The IPSEC VPN clients that have
> appeared have required rooting the phone and adding some kernel
> features to the OS, something no enterprise is going to accept. Every
> IPSEC VPN solution so far is phone specific. Steve Jobs was right, the
> Android market is fragmented.
>
> As one person wrote about this issue: "I carry an iphone (with VPN)
> and an Incredible. The incredible is 100 times the device the 3GS is.
> But we're totally frustrated because no one seems to be hearing what
> we're say."
I believe I read the same user comment. :)
That aside, if rooting the client is what it takes to get it to work,
this should be easily done via sandboxing the client. Normally, this
wouldn't be a big deal on a desktop linux distro, but on an Android
phone's resources???? I dunno.
--
-MFB
Flint
> On Jan 11, 6:18 pm, SMS<scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/11/2011 1:33 PM, Flint wrote:
>>
>>> The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a smartphone,
>>> or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
>>
>> Wait and see what the pricing is for the Verizon iPhone plans. Are they
>> going to price service the same as Android devices ($30 for unlimited
>> data, $15 for 150MB (on top of a minimum $40 a month voice plan)) or are
>> they going to try to charge more.
>
> And also wait to see what AT&T counter-offers with.
I thought the same thing - for all but 5 seconds. AT&T (along with
Sprint and TMobile) coverage in my area is simply just not as good as
Verizon. Verizon is a tad pricier, but it's superior coverage (in my
terrain affected area) justifies it, IMO.
--
-MFB
AD
> In article <apony-6CEA7B.14095611012...@news.qwest.net>,
> ap...@pasture.com says...
>
>
>
> > Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> > end of the horrible Android devices.
>
> My god, you're an idiot.
>
> First, Android is a very capable OS. I love my new Android phone (T-
> Mobile HTC MyTouch 4G).
>
> There are a couple things it lacks; Steven Scharf mentioned the lack of
> a VPN client, and I agree that that is a problem for enterprise
> customers, and it's probably Android's biggest drawback. On the other
> hand:
>
> http://www.ncp-e.com/en.html
>
> these guys are supposedly working on an Android VPN client. Their
> existing VPN client works with Cisco, Sonicwall and other enterprise-
> level VPN products.
>
> Second, no one is going to stop buying Android phones.
>
years
to learn what a piece of crap it is. Once dissent have reached an
avalanche
like proportions they would run screaming for Apple.
It's a question of the goodwill depreciation over extended period of
time.
Current android sales are future sales opportunities for Apple.
If you ever tried to concoct something resembling an image picker on
android
you'd surely know :-)
Lusotec
> There are a couple things it lacks; Steven Scharf mentioned the lack of
> a VPN client, and I agree that that is a problem for enterprise
> customers, and it's probably Android's biggest drawback. On the other
> hand:
>
> http://www.ncp-e.com/en.html
>
> these guys are supposedly working on an Android VPN client. Their
> existing VPN client works with Cisco, Sonicwall and other enterprise-
> level VPN products.
Why not use SSH for Android to create/join a VPN?
SSH VPN/proxy/tunneling has the advantage of being very network friendly,
using a normal IP/TCP connection, and easy to setup.
Regards.
SMS
No, I meant wait to see what Verizon's iPhone versus Verizon's Android
pricing is. No one in my area would choose AT&T to save a few bucks,
they chose it because they could get an iPhone.
-hh
> On 1/11/2011 9:11 PM, Flint wrote:
> > On 1/11/2011 7:23 PM, -hh wrote:
> >>
> >> And also wait to see what AT&T counter-offers with.
>
> > I thought the same thing - for all but 5 seconds. AT&T (along with
> > Sprint and TMobile) coverage in my area is simply just not as good as
> > Verizon. Verizon is a tad pricier, but it's superior coverage (in my
> > terrain affected area) justifies it, IMO.
Not to dismiss it, but adequacy of coverage is a regional issue. I'm
using my AT&T phone more than my VZW one, and haven't been
particularly concerned about dropped calls / etc. This isn't to say
that I don't get dropped calls ... I do ... but that's more due to all
the carriers having a weak spot in conjunction with RF shielding from
a metal roof, etc, which happens on all the networks.
Similarly, GSM works in more regions outside the USA than CDMA, so if
one's needs include international travel, VZW isn't really a good
option. From this perspective of infrastructure, there's cellular
coverage inside the underground stations on the Paris Metro... whereas
the Washington DC Metro has only very recently ended its monopoly with
VZW...a monopoly which should never have been allowed in the first
place.
> No, I meant wait to see what Verizon's iPhone versus Verizon's Android
> pricing is. No one in my area would choose AT&T to save a few bucks,
> they chose it because they could get an iPhone.
This is an interesting point too, since VZW coudn't have not known
that the iPhone was coming and thus, would have had all of their
website "Rates" pages ready for instant release yesterday ... but they
did not.
As such, the inference is that there's some "News" that VZW did not
want to be released as the same day of the iPhone announcement --- and
higher rates would be a prime example of something to suppress for the
moment. Of course, the potential for utter hypocrisy of this is that
for a data-constrained service plan, there's no justification for
discriminating based on the hardware too.
-hh
SMS
> As such, the inference is that there's some "News" that VZW did not
> want to be released as the same day of the iPhone announcement --- and
> higher rates would be a prime example of something to suppress for the
> moment. Of course, the potential for utter hypocrisy of this is that
> for a data-constrained service plan, there's no justification for
> discriminating based on the hardware too.
But the whole issue was that Verizon was not going to eliminate
unlimited data like AT&T did, but unlimited data prices would go up for
_all_ hardware activated on new plans. Already Android users were using
more data per month than iPhone users.
If I had to predict anything it'd be that all new Verizon smart phone
activations with unlimited data will have higher rates, but that there
will be two tiers of limited data, i.e. 150MB (which they offer now),
and something between 2GB and 5GB. Of course most people would probably
choose the lower cost plans because their data usage doesn't require the
unlimited plan. A lot of data usage on 3G these days is _because_ it's
unlimited--even when Wi-Fi is available no one bothers with it because
there's no economic incentive to use it, and it's not secure at public
Wi-Fi spots (unless you have VPN service, which you can't have on
Android yet).
-hh
> On 1/12/2011 6:36 AM, -hh wrote:
>
> > As such, the inference is that there's some "News" that VZW did not
> > want to be released as the same day of the iPhone announcement --- and
> > higher rates would be a prime example of something to suppress for the
> > moment. Of course, the potential for utter hypocrisy of this is that
> > for a data-constrained service plan, there's no justification for
> > discriminating based on the hardware too.
>
> But the whole issue was that Verizon was not going to eliminate
> unlimited data like AT&T did, but unlimited data prices would go up for
> _all_ hardware activated on new plans. Already Android users were using
> more data per month than iPhone users.
>
> If I had to predict anything it'd be that all new Verizon smart phone
This is my expectation too: instead of cutting the monthly costs, the
carriers will tend to increase the (real or perceived) "size" of the
bundled services so as to keep the monthly cost high.
> ..., but that there
> will be two tiers of limited data, i.e. 150MB (which they offer now),
> and something between 2GB and 5GB. Of course most people would probably
> choose the lower cost plans because their data usage doesn't require the
> unlimited plan. A lot of data usage on 3G these days is _because_ it's
> unlimited--even when Wi-Fi is available no one bothers with it because
> there's no economic incentive to use it, and it's not secure at public
> Wi-Fi spots (unless you have VPN service, which you can't have on
> Android yet).
A good point, particularly in conjunction with how these sorts of
devices are set up in terms of what I'll call is their "ease-of-
changeover" from celluar to WiFi. Simply put, if it isn't easy (let
alone actively encouraged by providers) for the consumer, the expected
behavior is to be lazy... particularly when (as you point out) there's
no meaningful carrot or stick to guide behavior to make there be a
reason for the consumer to make any effort to do it.
-hh
SMS
> A good point, particularly in conjunction with how these sorts of
> devices are set up in terms of what I'll call is their "ease-of-
> changeover" from celluar to WiFi. Simply put, if it isn't easy (let
> alone actively encouraged by providers) for the consumer, the expected
> behavior is to be lazy... particularly when (as you point out) there's
> no meaningful carrot or stick to guide behavior to make there be a
> reason for the consumer to make any effort to do it.
I have a big stick on my Droid on PagePlus. Right now I'm on pay as you
go data, and when my Verizon contract expires I'm porting my Verizon
number to PagePlus and the Droid and switching to the $30 ($27)
1200/1200/50MB plan.
Still, even now I don't hesitate to use data when I actually need it for
something. But I'm not watching YouTube videos or streaming Pandora over
3G. The limited data plans are a big problem for companies whose whole
business plan is dependent on unlimited (or high limit) data, and
they've admitted as much. Pandora said that AT&T going from unlimited to
2GB was not a problem, but they didn't want to talk about the 200MB plan
on AT&T, or the 150MB plan on Verizon (and certainly they didn't want to
talk about pay as you go data).
Steve Sobol
@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, isq...@gmail.com says...
(Yeah, AD is an idiot fanboy like Oxford, but I'm going to try to make
some rational counter-arguments anyhow).
> > Second, no one is going to stop buying Android phones.
> And that's good: in the US customers would typically have full two
> years
> to learn what a piece of crap it is. Once dissent have reached an
> avalanche
> like proportions they would run screaming for Apple.
I refuse to use AT&T or Verizon. AT&T screwed me hard, or tried to, when
my DSL broke back in 2002. I had to get the state regulators involved,
and the fight got kinda nasty (but the state made AT&T credit me every
penny for the service they failed to provide).
So regardless of how good AT&T's wireless network is, there is zero
chance I will ever use them. The only AT&T service I use is their wifi,
and only in places where I don't get charged to use it.
Verizon's network broke in front of their Victorville, CA retail store
and for six months they lied to me, before finally admitting that they
had network problems. (They wanted me to buy a new phone.) So, it is
unlikely I'll go back to them.
Therefore, I can't use an iPhone, since I don't believe in rooting or
jailbreaking smartphones for which I just paid a lot of money; sure, I
could jailbreak an AT&T iPhone and use it on T-Mo, but I am not going
to.
I think the iPhone is a neat phone. I can see that it is useful to many
of my friends. Furthermore, I don't know a single person who has an
iPhone that doesn't love it. Steve Jobs and Apple's marketing team are
*really* good at what they do, and they seem to really have a handle on
delivering products that consumers want.
But even if I was a customer of Verizon or AT&T, I'd *still* prefer not
to use an iPhone. I own an HTC MyTouch 4G. The 4G is T-Mobile's flagship
smartphone, and it is also HTC's (at least for now). It runs Android
2.2. It has a few capabilities that the iPhone 4 does not, I like the
UI, and there are plenty of apps available for it.
More importantly, I can install apps that aren't available on the
official app store. This is a big deal to me. I don't like Apple's
control over the App Store, either from a developer's point of view (we
may reject your app, but we won't tell you why, nor will we be
consistent in our decisions), or from and end-user's point of view
(because the control means fewer choices for the consumer).
> It's a question of the goodwill depreciation over extended period of
> time.
> Current android sales are future sales opportunities for Apple.
>
> If you ever tried to concoct something resembling an image picker on
> android
> you'd surely know :-)
So, you've developed Android apps before?
Rex Ballard
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> end of the horrible Android devices.
Or possibly the demise of the iPhone :-)
> Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
> iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
Android.
It's possible that it is BECAUSE Android took such a big share of the
AT&T user base, that Apple now wants to expand to Verizon.
> Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like the
> failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
phones.
And many who may have been holding off buying an Android phone in
hopes of getting the iPhone on Verizon - may end up going forward with
the Android purchase anyway.
iPhones will not give you:
Any kind of physical keypad - Android phones are available with or
without keypads.
Applications through independent distributors - iPhone apps - only
through Apple.
Adult entertainment - Apple will block distribution of an application
if it shows a book that used a "four letter word".
Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
Multiple development platforms - have to use special tools for iPhone.
With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
profits to the software makers.
Android on the other hand, lets you get apps through the carrier, from
Google, and download directly via the Web. This means that
applications for Android can provide services to lots of different
phones in a platform independent way.
> You can sign up for the vPhone here:
> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/iphone.jsp
Typical Apple maneuver - let lots of people sign up in advance and
commit themselves to iPhones - before they actually come out - so they
can hype the daylights out of selling 1 million iPhones in a day -
(actually orders built up over 30 days) - while during the same 30 day
period, 300,000 Android phones PER DAY - a total of 9 million phones -
were sold.
And of course, many of those who pre-ordered their iPhone 4 units are
still struggling with limited power supply, bad antenna, and dropped
calls because they put their hand in the wrong place.
> The party starts February 10th!
> read more here:
> http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
> and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
> basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
> fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
Does it do multitasking? Can I enter information using a keyboard or
keypad? Can I connect to an external full HD display? Can it do
speech recognition? Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
These, and more are possible with certain models of the Android 2.x
phones.
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.1.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.1.html#apps
Want to be a developer?
http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/eclipse-adt.html
> enjoy!
> oxford
Enjoy
Rex
nospam
<4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>
> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> Android.
actually they didn't. android's growth was high but iphone still sold
more. android sales have leveled off too.
> It's possible that it is BECAUSE Android took such a big share of the
> AT&T user base, that Apple now wants to expand to Verizon.
apple and verizon were planning on it for a while. according to
statements made yesterday, negotiations go back to 2008, well before
android had any share, let alone big.
> > Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like the
> > failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
>
> Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> phones.
apple was quoted in activating that many per day a few months ago. it's
probably more by now, and with verizon offering the iphone, it will be
even more next month.
> And many who may have been holding off buying an Android phone in
> hopes of getting the iPhone on Verizon - may end up going forward with
> the Android purchase anyway.
some will, some won't.
> iPhones will not give you:
> Any kind of physical keypad - Android phones are available with or
> without keypads.
so what? some people prefer an on screen keyboard, others don't, plus
some of the physical keyboards on android phones suck.
> Applications through independent distributors - iPhone apps - only
> through Apple.
big deal. most people aren't interested in dealing with multiple app
stores and multiple payment methods.
> Adult entertainment - Apple will block distribution of an application
> if it shows a book that used a "four letter word".
big deal. if you need to watch porn on a 3" screen, you have other
problems than worrying about android versus iphone.
> Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
no loss, java apps generally suck.
> Multiple development platforms - have to use special tools for iPhone.
you have to use special tools for android too.
> With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> links to web sites
absolutely wrong. iphone apps are *much* more than links to web sites.
> - developers have less incentive to do real
> innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> profits to the software makers.
actually developers have a huge incentive to focus on iphones because
that's where the money is and android apps can't be sold in all
countries in which android is offered.
> Android on the other hand, lets you get apps through the carrier, from
> Google, and download directly via the Web. This means that
> applications for Android can provide services to lots of different
> phones in a platform independent way.
yes that's an advantage but not one that most people care about.
> > You can sign up for the vPhone here:
>
> > http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/iphone.jsp
>
> Typical Apple maneuver - let lots of people sign up in advance and
> commit themselves to iPhones - before they actually come out - so they
> can hype the daylights out of selling 1 million iPhones in a day -
> (actually orders built up over 30 days) - while during the same 30 day
> period, 300,000 Android phones PER DAY - a total of 9 million phones -
> were sold.
big deal. apple is *already* activating 300,000 ios devices a day
(probably more).
> And of course, many of those who pre-ordered their iPhone 4 units are
> still struggling with limited power supply, bad antenna, and dropped
> calls because they put their hand in the wrong place.
nonsense. the power supply is fine, the antenna issue is overblown
(funny how you don't hear much about it anymore, even though millions
more iphone 4s have been sold since last summer) and the only reason
there are dropped calls is because at&t sucks.
how about the antenna problems that plague android and windows phone 7
phones:
<http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/08/13/uh-oh-early-droid-2-units-having-
signal-issues/>
<http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2010/12/02/244306/HTC-defends-HD
7-handsets-after-antenna-problems-reported.htm>
> > The party starts February 10th!
> > read more here:
> > http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
>
> > and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
> > basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
> > fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
>
> Does it do multitasking?
absolutely
> Can I enter information using a keyboard or
> keypad?
yes
> Can I connect to an external full HD display?
external displays are supported
> Can it do speech recognition?
yes
> Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
the verizon iphone can do that and an update to the rest of the iphones
should also have it.
can android devices watch netflix? nope
<http://blog.netflix.com/2010/11/netflix-on-android.html>
SMS
> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> Android.
That's very true. Everyone assumes that given the choice between a
Verizon iPhone and and one of many Android phones on Verizon that
everyone will automatically pick the iPhone. But that's not how it
worked out on AT&T. There are pros and cons to each device.
iPhone
------
-Wide availability of aftermarket accessories, including speaker
docks--none for Android
-IPSEC VPN, a very big deal to enterprises--not available on Android,
which makes Android phones unusable at many companies, and very insecure
at hot spots (of course most people use the iPhone's WiFi without VPN at
hot spots even though they shouldn't with apps like Firesheep out there!)
-Works with iTunes
-Wider selection of applications, including many extremely useful ones
not yet on Android
-Better user interface
Android
-------
-Flash support
-User replaceable battery
-MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
from a digital camera)
-Physical keyboards available
-CDMA/GSM world phone available (Droid 2) which gives you GSM outside
the U.S. if the country you visit doesn't have CDMA (all of Europe)
-Phones with HDMI ports coming soon
Lloyd Parsons
<4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> profits to the software makers.
LOL! 'lower profits to the software makers'? You can't be serious.
So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
--
Lloyd
KDT
> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> Android.
If by "substantial" you mean "less than 7%"
>
> It's possible that it is BECAUSE Android took such a big share of the
> AT&T user base, that Apple now wants to expand to Verizon.
>
It would help your argument a great deal if you had numbers -- oh wait
-- the numbers *don't* back up your claim. They do just the
opposite.
> > Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like the
> > failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
>
> Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> phones.
And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
KDT
> Android
> -------
> -Flash support
> -User replaceable battery
They have to be, the battery life is so poor....
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3891/samsung-epic-4g-review-the-fastest-android-phone/8
> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> from a digital camera)
1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
2. Use the EyeFi and send pictures directly from your camera (with the
new mobile hot spot feature)
3. Aren't most people using their phone as their cameras anyway.
nospam
<e17200c9-f714-43ac...@k11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
KDT <scarf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> > phones.
>
> And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
Steve Sobol
0ef045...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, rex.b...@gmail.com
says...
> Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
Yeah, that kinda sucks for me. I can write Java apps for PC, Linux, Mac,
Android and BlackBerry. (And I do write Java apps for all of those
platforms, except BlackBerry, at least for now.)
But not iPhone.
And I'm not really interested in learning Objective-C just so I can
develop iOS apps. Sure, learning Objective-C will also allow me to write
native Mac apps, but why? I can already leverage my investment in Java
to develop Mac apps.
Steve Sobol
nos...@nospam.invalid says...
Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
Steve Sobol
scharf...@geemail.com says...
> -Phones with HDMI ports coming soon
There's at least one Android phone with an HDMI output already. It's
just not a Verizon phone. (It's the HTC Evo, Sprint's flagship Android
handset.)
And I am dead sure I saw an HDMI jack on my mom's new Droid X when she
visited a month ago.
Steve Sobol
lloydp...@mac.com says...
So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
Lloyd Parsons
Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> In article <lloydparsons-7F1B...@port80.individual.net>,
> lloydp...@mac.com says...
> >
> > In article
> > <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> > > iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> > > links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> > > innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> > > profits to the software makers.
> >
> > LOL! 'lower profits to the software makers'? You can't be serious.
> >
> > So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
>
> So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
Nope, but I know a few that do. They're tickled pink.
--
Lloyd
nospam
<sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> > Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
>
> Yeah, that kinda sucks for me. I can write Java apps for PC, Linux, Mac,
> Android and BlackBerry. (And I do write Java apps for all of those
> platforms, except BlackBerry, at least for now.)
>
> But not iPhone.
an app that runs on a pc or mac is going to suck on an iphone. the
whole way of interacting with it, not to mention the screen size is
totally different.
> And I'm not really interested in learning Objective-C just so I can
> develop iOS apps. Sure, learning Objective-C will also allow me to write
> native Mac apps, but why? I can already leverage my investment in Java
> to develop Mac apps.
java apps on the mac tend to suck. they don't look right and they don't
feel right. plus java will be user installed in future versions of os
x.
Tim Adams
Steve Sobol <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
Speculation has it that when the iPhone 5 (most likely May or June this year)
that both Sprint and T-Mobile will also be selling the iPhone.
>
> I think the iPhone is a neat phone. I can see that it is useful to many
> of my friends. Furthermore, I don't know a single person who has an
> iPhone that doesn't love it. Steve Jobs and Apple's marketing team are
> *really* good at what they do, and they seem to really have a handle on
> delivering products that consumers want.
>
> But even if I was a customer of Verizon or AT&T, I'd *still* prefer not
> to use an iPhone. I own an HTC MyTouch 4G. The 4G is T-Mobile's flagship
> smartphone, and it is also HTC's (at least for now). It runs Android
> 2.2. It has a few capabilities that the iPhone 4 does not, I like the
> UI, and there are plenty of apps available for it.
>
> More importantly, I can install apps that aren't available on the
> official app store. This is a big deal to me. I don't like Apple's
> control over the App Store, either from a developer's point of view (we
> may reject your app, but we won't tell you why, nor will we be
> consistent in our decisions), or from and end-user's point of view
> (because the control means fewer choices for the consumer).
>
>
> > It's a question of the goodwill depreciation over extended period of
> > time.
> > Current android sales are future sales opportunities for Apple.
> >
> > If you ever tried to concoct something resembling an image picker on
> > android
> > you'd surely know :-)
>
> So, you've developed Android apps before?
--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
nospam
<sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> > > > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> > > > phones.
> > >
> > > And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> > > barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
> >
> > good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
> > old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
>
> Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
here's one:
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>
here's another, a $99 android tablet at walmart. the battery life is
like nothing else - 3 hour *standby* time, not run time. charge it up
overnight and by the time you get to the airport and get on the plane,
it's dead. the battery is also internal and not user replaceable too.
<http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2010/11/worst-gadget-ever-ars-re
views-a-99-android-tablet.ars>
the dell streak initially shipped with 1.6, but i think they've updated
it by now. why they didn't ship with 2.2 at the time is anyone's guess.
<http://www.macworld.com/article/153330/2010/08/dellstreak.html>
Snit
teadams$2$0$0$3-CF73F0.17...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net on
1/12/11 3:16 PM:
> --
> regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
> you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
> the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
--
"YOU were the person claiming that the ~ told people to go to
HardDrive/users/username/ while I stated the ~ indicated the name of the
hard drive only." -- Tim Adams
Tim Adams
Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 4:09 pm, Oxford <ap...@pasture.com> wrote:
> > Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> > end of the horrible Android devices.
>
> Or possibly the demise of the iPhone :-)
>
> > Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>
> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> Android.
Yet the iPhone still outnumbers Android on AT&T by 15 to 1.
http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/11/for-every-att-android-user-there-are-15-iphone-u
sers-what-will-be-the-ratio-at-verizon/
--
Snit
1/12/11 3:20 PM:
> --
> regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
> you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
> the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
--
"Incest IS sex by the very definition of the words. Therefore they ARE
identical when presented in that order." -- Tim Adams
nospam
> > > With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> > > iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> > > links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> > > innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> > > profits to the software makers.
> >
> > LOL! 'lower profits to the software makers'? You can't be serious.
> >
> > So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
>
> So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.
Steve Sobol
nos...@nospam.invalid says...
>
> In article <MPG.2797c45d4...@news.justthe.net>, Steve Sobol
> <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> > > > > phones.
> > > >
> > > > And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> > > > barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
> > >
> > > good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
> > > old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
> >
> > Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
>
> here's one:
> <http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>
Never heard of the product or the manufacturer. It only seems to be
available on websites like dealitem.com, not from any well-known source
like Best Buy or Newegg. But OK, all I asked is for the name of a
product running 1.6, and you gave it to me.
I'd be surprised if any current or recent products from well-known
manufacturers are using 1.6.
> the dell streak initially shipped with 1.6, but i think they've
updated
> it by now. why they didn't ship with 2.2 at the time is anyone's guess.
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/153330/2010/08/dellstreak.html>
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either.
Steve Sobol
nos...@nospam.invalid says...
>
> In article <MPG.2797c43d3...@news.justthe.net>, Steve Sobol
> <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
> > > Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
> >
> > Yeah, that kinda sucks for me. I can write Java apps for PC, Linux, Mac,
> > Android and BlackBerry. (And I do write Java apps for all of those
> > platforms, except BlackBerry, at least for now.)
> >
> > But not iPhone.
>
> an app that runs on a pc or mac is going to suck on an iphone. the
> whole way of interacting with it, not to mention the screen size is
> totally different.
I understand that. You aren't getting the point.
You have to develop apps especially for the mobile platforms, including
Android, iPhone and BlackBerry, or they WILL suck. My point is: I can
use Java to develop on at least two of the major mobile platforms (BB
and Android), as well as at least three desktop platforms (Mac, PC,
Linux). As it stands, I have to learn Objective-C to develop for iOS,
and I don't have the time to invest in learning Objective-C, and I have
technical obejctions to using C, C++ and their derivatives, anyhow.
> java apps on the mac tend to suck. they don't look right and they
don't
> feel right. plus java will be user installed in future versions of os
> x.
There are actually some simple ways to make your Java app behave like a
native app. I am the proud owner of a used Mac Mini, which I got from a
friend a couple months ago, and I've tried the tricks, and they work.
If you just create a JAR file, and you don't take the extra steps like
creating a MacOS application bundle, you're absolutely right - the
resulting app will NOT act like a Mac app.
Regarding your second point, that's news to me. But, it's not a big
deal. Windows PC vendors only started bundling Java a couple years ago,
so I already have a plan in place to deal with situations like that.
Steve Sobol
nos...@nospam.invalid says...
> some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
> figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
> jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.
No argument there, but the original point was about profit margins on
Android apps vs. profit margins on iOS apps.
nospam
<sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> > some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
> > figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
> > jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.
>
> No argument there, but the original point was about profit margins on
> Android apps vs. profit margins on iOS apps.
both are 70%/30%. the question is whether iphone or android is more
lucrative. one major issue with android is that users can buy android
apps in only 32 countries, up from just 13 earlier this year. iphone
apps can be sold in 90 countries.
KDT
]
>
> So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
>
MuahMan
> In article <MPG.2797c4f45f8e6cd8989...@news.justthe.net>,
> Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <lloydparsons-7F1B8C.14275412012...@port80.individual.net>,
> > lloydpars...@mac.com says...
>
> > > In article
> > > <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219-9568-0ef045b7b...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Rex Ballard <rex.ball...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> > > > iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> > > > links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> > > > innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> > > > profits to the software makers.
>
> > > LOL! 'lower profits to the software makers'? You can't be serious.
>
> > > So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
>
> > So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
>
> Nope, but I know a few that do. They're tickled pink.
>
> --
> Lloyd
Which Apps did they write? Please be specific.
Bert Hyman
<ap...@pasture.com> wrote:
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today
It's hardly a matter of "allow," since Apple has to build a version for
Verizon.
> and the official end of the horrible Android devices.
That's funny! Stupid, but still funny.
Does somebody force you to use one?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
Steve Sobol
nos...@nospam.invalid says...
I'd think that right now, iOS apps HAVE TO be more lucrative, when you
are discussing absolute numbers. The iPhone has been around much longer,
and the market is much more mature.
Carl
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> end of the horrible Android devices.
>
> the iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>
> the failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
>
>
> read more here:
>
> http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
>
> and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
> basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
> fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
>
>
> enjoy!
>
> oxford
>
It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery, it still doesn't come with
a free navigation program, and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
flashplayer websites (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).
Now, at least, you'll have a shot at actually making phone calls with it.
In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.
I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
drained.
Don't worry Oxford, it will be a big seller. It's a good thing that most
buyers don't look into what it can't do, just that it's cute. :-)
Carl
> On Jan 11, 6:18 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/11/2011 1:33 PM, Flint wrote:
>>
>>> The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a
>>> smartphone, or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
>>
>> Wait and see what the pricing is for the Verizon iPhone plans. Are
>> they going to price service the same as Android devices ($30 for
>> unlimited data, $15 for 150MB (on top of a minimum $40 a month voice
>> plan)) or are they going to try to charge more.
>
> And also wait to see what AT&T counter-offers with.
>
>
>> Android devices have some advantages over the iPhone and vice-versa.
>
> Of course. But on Androids, I was told (verbally...I haven't looked
> to confirm this one yet) that VZW mentioned something about how
> they're going to accept returns on "Christmas gift" Androids as trade-
> in /upgrades for VZW iPhones.
>
>
> -hh
>
Well, Xmas gift anythings, not just Droids. According to their FAQ, they're
allowing you to return and exchange anything you bought up to 30 days before
and 15 days for tablets. I don't know, but that sounds like their standard
policy to me.
Justin
> In article
> <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>>
>> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
>> Android.
>
> more. android sales have leveled off too.
That math doesn't hold.
Android is number 2 and iphone is number 3. Starting at almost nothing 18
months ago to number 2 means they somehow sold more than iphone.
>> Applications through independent distributors - iPhone apps - only
>> through Apple.
>
> big deal. most people aren't interested in dealing with multiple app
> stores and multiple payment methods.
I certainly am! Amazon is someone I already have an account and trust their
customer service.
>> Multiple development platforms - have to use special tools for iPhone.
>
> you have to use special tools for android too.
You have to own specific hardware for iPhone dev. You can run android dev
on any computer you have access to
>> - developers have less incentive to do real
>> innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
>> profits to the software makers.
>
> actually developers have a huge incentive to focus on iphones because
> that's where the money is and android apps can't be sold in all
> countries in which android is offered.
Ah, but ad supported apps on android outperform sold apps anyway
>> Can I connect to an external full HD display?
>
> external displays are supported
in a very limited manner
>> Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
>
> the verizon iphone can do that and an update to the rest of the iphones
> should also have it.
Does it offer pdanet to do that for no extra charge?
Justin
> On Jan 12, 3:10 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Android
>> -------
>> -Flash support
>> -User replaceable battery
>
> They have to be, the battery life is so poor....
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/3891/samsung-epic-4g-review-the-fastest-android-phone/8
>
>
>> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
>> from a digital camera)
>
> 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
All of them
Justin
> In article <4d2e0ab8$0$43993$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> scharf...@geemail.com says...
>
>
>> -Phones with HDMI ports coming soon
>
> There's at least one Android phone with an HDMI output already. It's
> just not a Verizon phone. (It's the HTC Evo, Sprint's flagship Android
> handset.)
Yes, my droid X has HDMI
the evo has HDMI
Justin
> In article
> <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
>> innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
>> profits to the software makers.
>
>
> So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
No, select apps have been good sellers, not all apps, no matter the
quality
Invid Fan
<sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> In article <120120111718138199%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nos...@nospam.invalid says...
> >
> > In article <MPG.2797c45d4...@news.justthe.net>, Steve Sobol
> > <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new
> > > > > > Android
> > > > > > phones.
> > > > >
> > > > > And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> > > > > barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
> > > >
> > > > good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
> > > > old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
> > >
> > > Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
> >
> > here's one:
> > <http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>
>
> Never heard of the product or the manufacturer. It only seems to be
> available on websites like dealitem.com, not from any well-known source
> like Best Buy or Newegg. But OK, all I asked is for the name of a
> product running 1.6, and you gave it to me.
>
> I'd be surprised if any current or recent products from well-known
> manufacturers are using 1.6.
>
I thought that was what he was saying, that a chunk of that 300,000
activations a day were cheap crap sold overseas.
--
Chris Mack "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan' - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'
KDT
> nospam wrote on [Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:55:54 -0500]:
> > actually developers have a huge incentive to focus on iphones because
> > that's where the money is and android apps can't be sold in all
> > countries in which android is offered.
>
> Ah, but ad supported apps on android outperform sold apps anyway
Like I really want ads in all my programs. Ask Angry Bird users how
much they are enjoying their ad supported app....
>
> >> Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
>
> > the verizon iphone can do that and an update to the rest of the iphones
> > should also have it.
>
> Does it offer pdanet to do that for no extra charge?
If you jailbreak your iPhone....just like you need to root your
Android.
KDT
> KDT wrote on [Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:42:06 -0800 (PST)]:
>
> > On Jan 12, 3:10 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> Android
> >> -------
> >> -Flash support
> >> -User replaceable battery
>
> > They have to be, the battery life is so poor....
>
> >> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> >> from a digital camera)
>
> > 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
>
> All of them
Looking at the top 10 digital cameras on Amazon -- none of them use
*micro* SD cards.....
Justin
No, you do not.
I can run PDANet just fine, I haven't rooted my phone.
Justin
They sure can
KDT
> It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery,
I'd rather haee decent battery life////
> it still doesn't come with
> a free navigation program,
It's on the app store.
>and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
> flashplayer websites (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
> those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).r
Have you actually tried using some Flash apps that were designed for a
PC, a keyboard, and a mouse on a touch screen phone?
>
> In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
> music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.
So 25% of smart phone buyers are buying "toys"?
>
> I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
> rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
> as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
> could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
> drained.
So who am I going to believe about the iPad's battery life? You or
every single reviewer?
>
nospam
<nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >> Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
> >
> > the verizon iphone can do that and an update to the rest of the iphones
> > should also have it.
>
> Does it offer pdanet to do that for no extra charge?
4.3 firmware.
nospam
<nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >> >> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> >> >> from a digital camera)
> >>
> >> > 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
> >>
> >> All of them
> >
> > Looking at the top 10 digital cameras on Amazon -- none of them use
> > *micro* SD cards.....
>
> They sure can
which ones?
no nikon or canon slr takes micro sd cards. they take compact flash or
sdhc cards.
Justin
Justin
> On Jan 12, 7:42 pm, "Carl" <croth...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>>and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
>> flashplayer websites (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
>> those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).r
>
> Have you actually tried using some Flash apps that were designed for a
> PC, a keyboard, and a mouse on a touch screen phone?
Yep. Most work just fine. How do they work on your iPhone?
Justin
For no extra charge? Stock firmware?
nospam
<nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >> >> Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
> >> >
> >> > the verizon iphone can do that and an update to the rest of the iphones
> >> > should also have it.
> >>
> >> Does it offer pdanet to do that for no extra charge?
> >
> > 4.3 firmware.
>
> For no extra charge? Stock firmware?
stock firmware, and any charges are up to the carrier.
circumventing charges, if any, is a violation of the terms of service,
as is tethering if it's not part of the subscriber's plan.
nospam
<nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> >> >> >> from a digital camera)
> >> >>
> >> >> > 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
> >> >>
> >> >> All of them
> >> >
> >> > Looking at the top 10 digital cameras on Amazon -- none of them use
> >> > *micro* SD cards.....
> >>
> >> They sure can
> >
> > which ones?
> >
> > no nikon or canon slr takes micro sd cards. they take compact flash or
> > sdhc cards.
>
> Any of them
> http://forum.digitalcamerareview.com/lenses-accessories/8113-micro-sd-sd-adapter-same-sd.html
the fact that you need an adapter means it doesn't use micro-sd.
and then there's the cameras that take cf. another adapter now?
Steve Sobol
d5cc81...@p8g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>, scarf...@yahoo.com says...
OK. I have one minor quibble with the second link - if you are a T-
Mobile customer, Google can bill your Android Market purchase to your T-
Mo bill. Don't know if this is available with other carriers yet.
Steve Sobol
@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, scarf...@yahoo.com says...
>
> On Jan 12, 7:42 pm, "Carl" <croth...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> > It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery,
>
> I'd rather haee decent battery life////
I make heavy use of my MyTouch 4G, including voice and data, and it'll
run at least a day and a half. The battery lasts much longer if I don't
use it as much. Your point was...?
(When my battery dies, which it eventually will because I plan on
keeping the phone for a while, I just get a new battery and pop it into
the phone.)
SMS
Most of the Micro SD cards I've bought come with the SD card adapter for
them. Use these in your camera and then when you need to send photos you
just stick the Micro SD card into the phone.
Well with the iPad camera connectivity kit you can do similar things
apparently, but I don't think it works on the iPhone.
SMS
Any camera that takes SD cards will work with Micro SD cards. Micro SD
cards are often sold with the SD card holder for Micro SD. You can also
buy CF adapters for SD/Micro SD. Much cheaper than an EyeFi card.
SMS
Any camera that takes SD cards can take MicroSD cards. MicroSD cards are
usually sold with the SD holder. You can also get Compact Flash to SD
adapters for use with D-SLRs, though these are around $20. Also memory
stick to MicroSD adapters.
It's not just for transferring pictures either. If you want to add audio
or video content and you don't have the iTunes computer for the iPhone
available it's very difficult, but with a phone that supports MicroSD
it's very easy.
-hh
> In article <slrniism8a.301.nos...@ubuntu.nitsuj.net>, Justin
>
>
>
>
>
> <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> > >> >> >> from a digital camera)
>
> > >> >> > 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
>
> > >> >> All of them
>
> > >> > Looking at the top 10 digital cameras on Amazon -- none of them use
> > >> > *micro* SD cards.....
>
> > >> They sure can
>
> > > which ones?
>
> > > no nikon or canon slr takes micro sd cards. they take compact flash or
> > > sdhc cards.
>
> > Any of them
>
> the fact that you need an adapter means it doesn't use micro-sd.
>
> and then there's the cameras that take cf. another adapter now?
Yup, and SD-in-CF adaptors do exist: it just adds some more time/
hassle to the "sneaker net" aspects of moving the data via physical
media to layer on a second adaptor into the process.
However, the bigger question is to what degree is being able to email
photos ... from a dedicated digital camera (not the cellphone
itself) ... actually a *significant* feature from a consumer's
perspective, particularly since 18MP JPEGs (forget about RAW) are a
non-trivial 5MB worth of bandwidth each.
WIth the current low end data plans of $15 for 150MB (or thereabouts),
you're talking about only being able to move ~30 photos per month
before higher fees kick in.
Now do understand that I agree that cellular data transfer without a
laptop can be a quite beneficial (albeit expensive) capability for a
roving journalist, but he could have also just used an EyeFi card in
the camera and a local WiFi node (including his cellphone) solves the
problem of how to transfer without needing to have a physcial microSD
card slot in said cellphone.
...and FWIW, given how PITA tiny microSD cards are to handle - -
especially in the winter - - having the capability performed
wirelessly without having to "sneakernet" a microSD card is not a
disadvantage at all: AFAIC, it is a distinct advantage. As such, if
you can skin the cat without having to "sneaker net", then why is it
so important to insist on doing things a la 1980s retro style?
-hh
-hh
I suspected as much, although that doesn't really answer why then this
person felt it necessary to point it out.
-hh
-hh
>
> a free navigation program...
It is pretty odd to complain about a ~1% ankle-biter on a $2000
product.
> In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
> music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.
It is pretty odd to complain about such a "convergence" element when
essentially everyone's smartphones now has this same exact feature.
> I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
> rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
> as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
> could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
> drained.
Ah...yeah. This really sounds like YA example of "Blame the
Hardware" for User Error.
So then, does she:
(A) have a 6+ hour (each way) commute?
or
(B) have poor battery management habits?
Afterall, if she is constantly forgetting to recharge, having a second
(removable, but *DEAD*) battery simply doesn't solve her problem. It
is significantly easier to keep track of one battery than to keep
track of two (or more).
-hh
KDT
> In article <5db0d26d-7aa9-4c8a-9ff4-c7e3dd3d2427
>
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 7:42 pm, "Carl" <croth...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> > > It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery,
>
> > I'd rather haee decent battery life////
>
> I make heavy use of my MyTouch 4G, including voice and data, and it'll
> run at least a day and a half. The battery lasts much longer if I don't
> use it as much. Your point was...?
My point was that battery life of Android phones are lower than the
iPhone.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3891/samsung-epic-4g-review-the-fastest-android-phone/8
Steve Sobol
a763bf...@i17g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>, scarf...@yahoo.com
says...
> My point was that battery life of Android phones are lower than the
> iPhone.
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/3891/samsung-epic-4g-review-the-fastest-android-phone/8
Eventually the battery will die. It'll just take longer on an iPhone.
And when the iPhone battery dies, you're screwed.
I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
Todd Allcock
> On Jan 12, 3:10 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > Android
> > -------
> > -Flash support
> > -User replaceable battery
>
> They have to be, the battery life is so poor....
android-phone/8
>
>
> > -MicroSD slot (a very big deal if you want to e-mail photos or videos
> > from a digital camera)
>
> 1. How many cameras use MicroSD cards?
All of mine- I use MicroSD (with SD adapters) instead of full-sized SD so
I can move them into my phone for quick emailing or uploading.
> 2. Use the EyeFi and send pictures directly from your camera (with the
> new mobile hot spot feature)
Uses far too much power on both the phone and camera comparatively, and
the only the more expensive EyeFi can connect ad-hoc (I'm guessing the
viPhone will mimic an infrastructure hot spot, but my phones only connect
ad-hoc.) I'd like to see a nice small P&S camera with BT. Back a decade
ago, I used to email pics from my Casio Digicam via my PDA using IR! Ten
years later I have fewer connectivity options!
> 3. Aren't most people using their phone as their cameras anyway.
Those who want crappier pictures, I suppose. ;)
SMS
> I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
The iPhone battery can be replaced, just not by the end users, at least
not easily. There are many third-party repair centers that can replace
iPhone and iPod Touch batteries (other than the early models with
soldered in batteries).
I suppose people accept it because they know by the time the battery
won't take a charge they'll be ready for a subsidized new phone. This
also discourages older handsets from being re-sold for use on prepaid
networks, or being used as an iPod Touch like device since it's so
expensive to replace the battery.
Those that need longer run times than a single battery can provide do
have a workaround--they can buy one of those battery sleeves that the
iPhone slides into, i.e. <http://www.mophie.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=51>.
ZnU
SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/12/2011 11:24 AM, Rex Ballard wrote:
>
> > That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> > iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> > Android.
>
> That's very true. Everyone assumes that given the choice between a
> Verizon iPhone and and one of many Android phones on Verizon that
> everyone will automatically pick the iPhone. But that's not how it
> worked out on AT&T.
That's true. iOS devices only outnumber Android devices by 15:1 on AT&T:
http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/11/for-every-att-android-user-there-are-15-
iphone-users-what-will-be-the-ratio-at-verizon/
[snip]
--
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
ZnU
> nospam wrote on [Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:55:54 -0500]:
> > In article
> > <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
> >> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
> >>
> >> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> >> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> >> Android.
> >
> > actually they didn't. android's growth was high but iphone still sold
> > more. android sales have leveled off too.
>
> That math doesn't hold.
>
> Android is number 2 and iphone is number 3. Starting at almost nothing 18
> months ago to number 2 means they somehow sold more than iphone.
Android snuck past in _US_ market share recently, according to one
report. It still trails in global market share. And of course a big part
of the reason it has done so well in the US is that the iPhone was only
available on one carrier. That's no longer true.
nospam
<sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
> > My point was that battery life of Android phones are lower than the
> > iPhone.
> >
> > http://www.anandtech.com/show/3891/samsung-epic-4g-review-the-fastest-androi
> > d-phone/8
>
> Eventually the battery will die. It'll just take longer on an iPhone.
plug it in to recharge, just like any other phone. this is about run
time, not the battery's life time.
> And when the iPhone battery dies, you're screwed.
if you mean when the battery itself fails, that's different. the
battery is rated for 3-5 years, and by then, the user will likely want
a new phone, probably well before then. smartphones change so quickly
that keeping it 2 years is a long time.
> I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
the battery *can* be replaced, it just needs a screwdriver rather than
snapping off the cover.
KDT
> In article <e0ef0091-b172-4e9d-9232-
> a763bf9cc...@i17g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>, scarface...@yahoo.com
> says...
>
> > My point was that battery life of Android phones are lower than the
> > iPhone.
>
> Eventually the battery will die. It'll just take longer on an iPhone.
>
> And when the iPhone battery dies, you're screwed.
Or you buy one of the many battery cases.
>
> I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
>
Have you heard of the Nexus S? You know the "flagship" Android
device?
> --
> Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
> Apple Valley, CA
> sjso...@JustThe.net
Oxford
> It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery
why would you need to replace the battery when it lasts for 5 years? do
you even own an iPhone? you can always add another battery pack if you
need more 3 days of charge.
> it still doesn't come with
> a free navigation program,
and why would anyone care when you can simply add one of about 20 nav
programs?
> and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
> flashplayer websites
nobody cares about flash, no other smartphones have flash out of the
box, so not sure of your point on that. the web runs SO much better if
you don't have flash mucking things up don't forget.
> (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
> those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).
> Now, at least, you'll have a shot at actually making phone calls with it.
what? flash kills batteries, it has zero to do with the app store. yes,
phone calls are great with the iphone, best of any smartphone.
> In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
> music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.
which basically means you are jealous of people that have the most
powerful, feature rich smartphone.
> I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
> rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
> as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
> could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
> drained.
liar... and the iPad battery on the iPad lasts for about a week with
normal use, so it's clear you've never used, much less touched an iPad.
you're so bitter... why?
Oxford
> And when the iPhone battery dies, you're screwed.
no, you can just replace the battery after 5 years, they are about $8.
> I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
you don't need to replace the battery during the normal life of the
product. apple is just far ahead of the competition, so it confuses
people who are still using primative phones.
Oxford
> And I'm not really interested in learning Objective-C just so I can
> develop iOS apps. Sure, learning Objective-C will also allow me to write
> native Mac apps, but why? I can already leverage my investment in Java
> to develop Mac apps.
no, you can develop with most any language for the iPhone, Objective-C
is just the highest level, but C or C++ is fine.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/feb/10/gameculture-ap
ple
nospam
<ap...@pasture.com> wrote:
> > And I'm not really interested in learning Objective-C just so I can
> > develop iOS apps. Sure, learning Objective-C will also allow me to write
> > native Mac apps, but why? I can already leverage my investment in Java
> > to develop Mac apps.
>
> no, you can develop with most any language for the iPhone, Objective-C
> is just the highest level, but C or C++ is fine.
not to ignite a language war, but objective-c is hardly 'the highest
level.' it's actually rather primitive (it's still c, after all), but
it does have some useful features. there needs to be *some* objective-c
in an iphone app, however, it could be kept to a minimum if someone
really wanted to.
SMS
> It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery, it still doesn't come with
> a free navigation program, and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
> flashplayer websites (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
> those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).
> Now, at least, you'll have a shot at actually making phone calls with it.
Flash is a pretty big issue. Everyone wants it, and most other smart
phones now have native Flash support. The lack of a user replaceable
battery is an annoyance, but it's not a terribly big deal, The battery
can be replaced by a third party for around $40 or by sending it back to
Apple for more. If battery duration is not long enough then you use a
battery sleeve.
> In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
> music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.
Actually it's Android that is more of a toy until they get IPSEC VPN
support. You can't use Android in the enterprise because of security issues.
> I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
> rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
> as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
> could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
> drained.
Wow, she has a really long bus ride. The iPad will run for about six
hours between charges, and usually much longer. She should either move
or find a job closer to her home or buy a car. In any case, the iPad is
not designed for "work related things." It's a web browser, media
player, and game platform. No one does Excel spreadsheets or document
creation on an iPad.
SMS
> However, the bigger question is to what degree is being able to email
> photos ... from a dedicated digital camera (not the cellphone
> itself) ... actually a *significant* feature from a consumer's
> perspective, particularly since 18MP JPEGs (forget about RAW) are a
> non-trivial 5MB worth of bandwidth each.
It's a big deal because you can do it over Wi-Fi, you don't need to do
it over 3G. If I want to carry a tablet or a smart phone on a trip, but
not a whole computer, being able to upload photos over Wi-Fi at a hotel
or restaurant or any of the thousands of places with free Wi-Fi _is_ a
big deal. And of course you don't need to e-mail the full resolution
images, application on the phone or tablet can reduce that 5MB photo to
much less if it's only being used for web viewing. The camera
connectivity kit for the iPad shows that there's a need for this
capability, you just don't get it on the iPhone yet.
chrisv
>both are 70%/30%. the question is whether iphone or android is more
>lucrative. one major issue with android is that users can buy android
>apps in only 32 countries, up from just 13 earlier this year. iphone
>apps can be sold in 90 countries.
Well, that Mozambique market *is* a big one!
--
"The FACTS have shown that people are NOT moving to Linux." - "True
Linux advocate" Hadron Quark
Oxford
> Android snuck past in _US_ market share recently, according to one
> report. It still trails in global market share. And of course a big part
> of the reason it has done so well in the US is that the iPhone was only
> available on one carrier. That's no longer true.
yes, we'll see the Android market completely collapse now that the
iPhone goes on Verizon starting Feb 10th.
everyone that has an Android completely hates it. It seems they thought
it was like an iPhone, but in actual usage, it's more of a high school
science project engineered for geeks and nerds.
Android users mainly use it as just a "phone" they never use the apps
since it's too painful and inconsistent. it's like the linux nightmare
all over again.
Richard B. Gilbert
> In article<MPG.2797c45d4...@news.justthe.net>, Steve Sobol
> <sjs...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
>>>>> phones.
>>>>
>>>> And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
>>>> barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
>>>
>>> good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
>>> old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
>>
>> Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
>
> here's one:
> <http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>
>
> here's another, a $99 android tablet at walmart. the battery life is
> like nothing else - 3 hour *standby* time, not run time. charge it up
> overnight and by the time you get to the airport and get on the plane,
Is this a Walmart branded product? Or is it a "name brand" being sold
by Walmart?
> it's dead. the battery is also internal and not user replaceable too.
> <http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2010/11/worst-gadget-ever-ars-re
> views-a-99-android-tablet.ars>
>
> the dell streak initially shipped with 1.6, but i think they've updated
> it by now. why they didn't ship with 2.2 at the time is anyone's guess.
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/153330/2010/08/dellstreak.html>
Justin
Not sure why you keep linking to a single phone as your answer about lower
battery life.
Some phone have better battery life than others.
Justin
> On 1/12/2011 10:00 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>> I'm shocked that people who know about this, actually accept it. I don't
>> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
>
> The iPhone battery can be replaced, just not by the end users, at least
> not easily. There are many third-party repair centers that can replace
> iPhone and iPod Touch batteries (other than the early models with
> soldered in batteries).
Is the turn around 30 seconds to a minute?
> I suppose people accept it because they know by the time the battery
> won't take a charge they'll be ready for a subsidized new phone. This
> also discourages older handsets from being re-sold for use on prepaid
> networks, or being used as an iPod Touch like device since it's so
> expensive to replace the battery.
I dunno about your family, but ours hands old phones down to family
members who have prepaid such as pageplus
Justin
> On Jan 13, 1:00 am, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote:
>> In article <e0ef0091-b172-4e9d-9232-
>> a763bf9cc...@i17g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>, scarface...@yahoo.com
>> says...
>>
>>
>> know of any other phones that have batteries that can't be replaced.
>>
>
> Have you heard of the Nexus S? You know the "flagship" Android
> device?
You mean this one? With an easily removed battery cover and battery?
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus-S-Teardown/4365/1
Justin
> In article <slrniisjna...@ubuntu.nitsuj.net>,
> Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> nospam wrote on [Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:55:54 -0500]:
>> > In article
>> > <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > Rex Ballard <rex.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
>> >> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>> >>
>> >> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
>> >> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
>> >> Android.
>> >
>> > actually they didn't. android's growth was high but iphone still sold
>> > more. android sales have leveled off too.
>>
>> That math doesn't hold.
>>
>> Android is number 2 and iphone is number 3. Starting at almost nothing 18
>> months ago to number 2 means they somehow sold more than iphone.
>
> Android snuck past in _US_ market share recently, according to one
> report. It still trails in global market share. And of course a big part
> of the reason it has done so well in the US is that the iPhone was only
> available on one carrier. That's no longer true.
You mean the gartner report that specified that Symbian sold 36.6%,
Android sold 25.5% and iOS sold 16.7% in Q3 last year? Hmmm...
Lloyd Parsons
Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
And with the iPhone, which prepaid works? Or do you also send them to
Sweden? :)
--
Lloyd
Justin
No idea, but I know plenty of people who keep the old iPhone around
and use it as an iPod Touch.
Lloyd Parsons
Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
Did that report only cover smartphones or in the case of Android the
'feature phones' that are also available?
--
Lloyd
Hadron
Android sold nothing. Android if "free" and Free. Remember?
This 25.5% is spread across about 80 different phones.
SMS
<snip>
> And with the iPhone, which prepaid works?
Any prepaid carrier which uses the AT&T network (or AT&T itself). Or
unlock the iPhone and you can use it on T-Mobile. The big issue is data.
The amount of 3G data is limited, though there are unlimited 2G data plans.
See <http://www.mrsimcard.com/iphone.html>. Pretty certain that Red
Pocket also works on iPhone (they're an AT&T MVNO)
<http://www.mysimplemobile.com/Simple-Mobile-Plan.aspx>
<http://www.mrsimcard.com/iphone.html>
Justin
Worldwide smartphone sales
Lloyd Parsons
SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I didn't know you could make them work with any prepaid.
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
--
Lloyd