Linux doesn't work!
Priam
purest Mac Moron breed, has just installing a video driver? Isn't it
amazing? Still...
"Linux runs on (at least) the Alpha AXP, Sun SPARC, Motorola 68000,
PowerPC, ARM, Hitachi SuperH, IBM S/390, MIPS, HP PA-RISC, Intel IA-64,
AMD x86-64, AXIS CRIS, Renesas M32R, Atmel AVR32, Renesas H8/300, NEC
V850, Tensilica Xtensa, and Analog Devices Blackfin architectures; for
many of these architectures in both 32- and 64-bit variants."
What does OS X with its crappy dead-end Mach kernel run on? Macs, that's
it, that's all. They must have been pressured into using it. :)
Linux powers more than 80% of the largest computers in the world.
Yes, but they have a sleuth of programmers at had to make them work,
you'll say. Indeed!
Linux also powers more than a million One Laptop Per Child computers in
emergimg countries.
Linux powers my computer and the reason I use it is that it's just less
problems, it's really cheap and Jooby doesn't collect hundreds of
millions a year for providing it. People working on Linux are well paid,
but they merit every cent of their pay.
Now, if M&Ms dream that they will come to their PC and Gawd will have
installed Linux on it, well, they can always dream. To use Linux, you
must learn a bit. Not a lot, just a bit. And it's just the same if you
want to stop Jooby's team to screw you every time a Mac glitch occurs.
You must learn what's a partition, what the / (root), /boot, and /home
partitions are for, how the distribution you have chosen works, where
are the software repositories, for exemple, etc.
There are lots of ways to learn how to become less dumb about computers
and saving money and time. The best support is the one YOU can provide.
You don't have to buy expensive books. The online documentation of your
distribution will often suffice. There are also free online books that
will help you. This one, for exemple, on Ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntupocketguide.com/download_main.html
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596006280
If you want to get a better understanding of Linux, this little book is
helpful:
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596006280
It's for all distributions but the author favors Fedora, not a bad
choice, security-wise. (Fedora uses Security Enhanced Linux or SELinux).
You can also, if you're so inclined, check for free:
The little exercices that are proposed are the only way to really learn.
Whatever complicated tricks you might find on the net, tell yourself
that, once it's installed, you can use Linux the same way you use OS X
on a Mac. But, if you learn a bit, both with OS X and Linux, you have
more ressources at hand for operating efficiently, troubleshooting and
so on.
The only difference is that Linux tutorials are more readily available.
Whether you want to remain Jooby's ignorant slave is your choice but,
please, just don't tell me that Macs are about value.
Father Justin
> Linux doesn't work! You see all the problems Father Justin, a man of the
> purest Mac Moron breed, has just installing a video driver? Isn't it
> amazing? Still...
>
Congrats, you just convinced several people not to use Linux.
People like you have the same effect on gay rights that those pride
parades have. you set it back a certain amount with every post.
You would do more by helping people.
Atrazine
"Father Justin" <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.va> wrote in message
news:hhjktj$8jk$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
I would say his argument was compelling. Why are you frightened?
John Slade
I like Linux too but to be honest, Windows and OS X are a
lot easier to set up and use when you're talking about using the
full capabilities of supported hardware. In Linux, a lot of
times you have to go into script files just to use the maximum
refresh rate of your monitor. With Windows, it's all controlled
with the interface. I look forward to the day when Linux is this
easy to use with my video hardware. Macs may get to this point
but since Jobs is such a xenophobe when it comes to his OS
running on generic hardware.
John
Father Justin
Explain.
Priam
> I like Linux too but to be honest, Windows and OS X are a lot easier to
> set up and use when you're talking about using the full capabilities of
> supported hardware.
If you're a gamer and you have an ATI card, this is right. You also have
to install WINE to use Windows software in Linux since there are not
many broad market games offered for Linux, but you can find some, even
flight simulators. Note that you don't have to have Windows to install
WINE and WINE doesn't slow games since WINE Is Not an Emulator. For some
games, you might need CodeWeavers' CrossOver.
> In Linux, a lot of times you have to go into script
> files just to use the maximum refresh rate of your monitor.
:) I can set my monitor at whatever frequency I like through an
interface but, for LCDs, it has no importance at all. For TVs 120 H and
240 Hz allow interpolation, but this also has its drawbacks.
Father Justin
As I am finding out ATI support under linux isn't very good. The
problem is this lappy has an ATI card.
After fixing this laptop my intent was to sell it on ebay. I think I'll
hang onto it for a bit longer.
John Slade
> On 12/31/2009 10:48 PM, John Slade wrote:
>
>> I like Linux too but to be honest, Windows and OS X are a lot easier to
>> set up and use when you're talking about using the full capabilities of
>> supported hardware.
>
> If you're a gamer and you have an ATI card, this is right. You also have
> to install WINE to use Windows software in Linux since there are not
> many broad market games offered for Linux, but you can find some, even
> flight simulators. Note that you don't have to have Windows to install
> WINE and WINE doesn't slow games since WINE Is Not an Emulator. For some
> games, you might need CodeWeavers' CrossOver.
>
I don't even waste time trying to get Windows games to
run in Linux. I just use Windows. I would only use an emulator
when I needed a business or productivity application to run
under Linux. But most of the productivity software I use has a
Linux counterpart.
John
Snit
2:21 PM:
I run OS X programs on OS X, Windows programs on Windows, and Linux programs
on Ubuntu. Just makes sense that way - though when I run all three OSs at
once it does push my computer a bit. Even with 4 GB of RAM, three OSs is a
bit much.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Priam
I understand your POV, but don't forget, WINE IS NOT an Emulator :)
John Slade
Well, whatever WINE is, it doesn't work for a lot of
stuff. I find that emulators like VMWare and VirtualPC work
better. Even those have their problems with games.
John
Steve Mackay
> On 12/31/2009 10:48 PM, John Slade wrote:
>
>> I like Linux too but to be honest, Windows and OS X are a lot easier to
>> set up and use when you're talking about using the full capabilities of
>> supported hardware.
>
> If you're a gamer and you have an ATI card, this is right.
I installed MINT linux about 2 weeks ago on a computer given to me(they
though it was a bad power supply, replaced it, and it was still
spontaneously rebooting itself. I pulled the CPU cooler off, and put a
new coat of Artic Silver5 on it, and voila' works like new). It has an
ATI 9600 Pro card. I didn't have to do any such thing. It recognized all
the hardware. Setup LAMP, postfix, and Dovecot. All within about 3-4
hours. Granted, this isn't the newest computer components. Being an
Athlon XP 3000+, Nvidia Chipset, and an ATI 9600 Pro AGP video card.
Still runs faster than my Dual 1GHZ G4 it replaced.
Priam
> Priam wrote:
>> On 12/31/2009 10:48 PM, John Slade wrote:
>>
>>> I like Linux too but to be honest, Windows and OS X are a lot easier to
>>> set up and use when you're talking about using the full capabilities of
>>> supported hardware.
>>
>> If you're a gamer and you have an ATI card, this is right.
>
> I installed MINT linux about 2 weeks ago on a computer given to me(they
> though it was a bad power supply, replaced it, and it was still
> spontaneously rebooting itself. I pulled the CPU cooler off, and put a
> new coat of Artic Silver5 on it, and voila' works like new).
Must have taken you at least 4-5 days! :) Isn't it funny that Lloyd
Parsons, who pretends he's a former computer salesman, would rather
depend on an OEM to troubleshoot this kind of problem?
I did the same on my previous computer. After 6 years, the cooling paste
had dried up. I got a $2 tube a a neardy store. Now I have enough paste
to repaste ~ 20 CPUs :)
When you use Linux, you learn pretty quick that your desktop computer is
not a machine to run the Hadron Collider: if something goes wrong, you
just open it.
Isn't it amazing that, with all the millions it spends on publicity,
Apple doesn't provide a manual to fix basic issues? Even Dell provides
such a manual for its cheapest computers, like the Vostro 220s, which
sells for %429 US *with a 20"* monitor.
See:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/vos220/en/sm/index.htm
I tried Linux Mint a few years back. The LiveCD wouldn't log you in
automatically and, countrary to what is usually the case, the password
wasn't written on the login screen. You had to roam the site in order to
find it. That was my first and last experience with Mint.
Also, with distros that are not mainstream, there are often small
glitches and security patches take a few days to arrive.
Maybe the situation has changed but, if you ever run into trouble, I
suggest you try a more mainstream distro, Fedora, Ubuntu or Mandriva,
for instance. Omega Linux, distributed from India, is a Fedora Remix
which has all the multimedia codecs installed, except Flash. You just:
su
yum install flash-plugin
or install it from the graphical interface: System Add-Remove Software.
Once installed, you just update and upgrade from the Fedora repositories.
> It has an
> ATI 9600 Pro card. I didn't have to do any such thing. It recognized all
> the hardware. Setup LAMP, postfix, and Dovecot. All within about 3-4
> hours. Granted, this isn't the newest computer components. Being an
> Athlon XP 3000+, Nvidia Chipset, and an ATI 9600 Pro AGP video card.
I can't comment on server software as I have never installed servers,
but your choice seems logical.
Your computer is certainly not a last generation beasty but, with Linux,
it might very well prove to do the work you expect for a few more years.
John Slade
I have a MINT Linux CD in my DVD/CD drive right now. It is
one of the best live CDs I've used. I do a test. If I can load
from a live CD, go right to Youtube and play videos, that's a
good distro. I don't have to download any upgrades at all. Not
to mention the background and boot screen are really cool to
look at!
John
Priam
> I have a MINT Linux CD in my DVD/CD drive right now. It is one of the
> best live CDs I've used. I do a test. If I can load from a live CD, go
> right to Youtube and play videos, that's a good distro.
:) Adobe provides Flash Player for Linux. It's a matters of 1-2 minutes
before it's installed. Then, there are the other codecs for other
formats. They're in a repository separate from the distibution's own
free software repository. You go to the update manager, you include said
repository, you install. It's not that much fuss.
You cannot say Mint is the best distribution because the codecs are
installed. Honestly, I have no idea how well it works.
> I don't have to
> download any upgrades at all.
According to Distrowatch, Helena, the last version of Mint, was released
on 2009/11/28. When you install it on the HD, there will be a fair bit
of upgrades to be made. Don't worry. Here's the big fuss updating means:
Using Ubuntu Update Manager tool
This is GUI tool. It works like Microsoft /Red Hat update manager i.e.
you will see a little icon in the kicker bar/taskbar when there are
updates. It will only appear when new upgrades are available. All you
have to do is click on it and follow the online instructions.
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-update-ubuntu-linux-softwares/
I suppose Mint works the same.
> Not to mention the background and boot
> screen are really cool to look at!
Go at google and check screenshots enlightenment OR xfce. You will some
Linux users are much into eye candy too. For instance:
John Slade
> On 01/04/2010 03:45 PM, John Slade wrote:
>
>> I have a MINT Linux CD in my DVD/CD drive right now. It is one of the
>> best live CDs I've used. I do a test. If I can load from a live CD, go
>> right to Youtube and play videos, that's a good distro.
>
> :) Adobe provides Flash Player for Linux. It's a matters of 1-2 minutes
> before it's installed. Then, there are the other codecs for other
> formats. They're in a repository separate from the distibution's own
> free software repository. You go to the update manager, you include said
> repository, you install. It's not that much fuss.
>
> You cannot say Mint is the best distribution because the codecs are
> installed. Honestly, I have no idea how well it works.
I like Mandriva's live cd and Ubuntu. But for an install
on a HD I've done Mandriva and found it the best for my needs.
>
>> I don't have to
>> download any upgrades at all.
>
> According to Distrowatch, Helena, the last version of Mint, was released
> on 2009/11/28. When you install it on the HD, there will be a fair bit
> of upgrades to be made. Don't worry. Here's the big fuss updating means:
>
> Using Ubuntu Update Manager tool
>
> This is GUI tool. It works like Microsoft /Red Hat update manager i.e.
> you will see a little icon in the kicker bar/taskbar when there are
> updates. It will only appear when new upgrades are available. All you
> have to do is click on it and follow the online instructions.
>
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-do-i-update-ubuntu-linux-softwares/
>
> I suppose Mint works the same.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to install Ubuntu on a HD one
day to check it out, just haven't had time.
>
>> Not to mention the background and boot
>> screen are really cool to look at!
>
> Go at google and check screenshots enlightenment OR xfce. You will some
> Linux users are much into eye candy too. For instance:
>
> http://www.elivecd.org/Main/Screenshots/User
Thanks nice shots. I have used Enlightenment and Xfce, I
think I used them both on my Mandriva install from a couple
months ago. Eye candy is cool but everything gets boring after a
while.
John
Steve Mackay
I'm a new fan of MINT. But, it's nothing more than Ubuntu with more eye
candy, and codecs included. Installation was painless, and everything
I've installed... "just works". The best part is, it was free.
Steve Carroll
I've got a dual 1GHz G4 myself... was thinking about trying out a
linux distro on it. I dl'd one once... but never got around to
installing it. Anyway, free is good, if it works ;) I've spent a bit
of time lately working with free stuff... MySQL, PHP, Wordpress,
Drupal, Joomla, etc. It's a nice feeling after having sunk thousands
of dollars into Macs (not that I regret the purchases).
Priam
> I've got a dual 1GHz G4 myself... was thinking about trying out a
> linux distro on it. I dl'd one once... but never got around to
> installing it. Anyway, free is good, if it works ;) I've spent a bit
> of time lately working with free stuff... MySQL, PHP, Wordpress,
> Drupal, Joomla, etc. It's a nice feeling after having sunk thousands
> of dollars into Macs (not that I regret the purchases).
Since I installed my first Linux distro about 10 years ago, with all the
progress in automation and user friendliness since those days, you must
have a very special aptitude for failing if you didn't succeed today.
Priam
> I'm a new fan of MINT. But, it's nothing more than Ubuntu with more eye
> candy, and codecs included. Installation was painless, and everything
> I've installed... "just works". The best part is, it was free.
I'm a bit sceptical about distributions that establish their reputation
by providing codecs. As I said, codecs aren't more complicated to
install than any other kind of software. All you have to do is add the
repository for non-free software. Then, you install Flash, mplayer and
gstreamer. As far as I remember, that's about it. Anyways, instructions
are easy to find.
So, I hope you don't equate providing the codecs with, say, providing a
functioning version of SELinux. Red Hat has worked on this for years
with teh NSA before it ran smoothly. Also, if you use Debian or Fedora,
you can be sure that the code is reviewed more than once or twice. When
you run the New York Stock Exchange, banks, the Hadron Collider or you
have 1,000 programemrs at hand, it's harder for security issues to go
unnoticed.
Did you try Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva? Don't they also "just work"?
Steve Mackay
> On 01/05/2010 09:28 AM, Steve Mackay wrote:
>
>> I'm a new fan of MINT. But, it's nothing more than Ubuntu with more eye
>> candy, and codecs included. Installation was painless, and everything
>> I've installed... "just works". The best part is, it was free.
>
> I'm a bit sceptical about distributions that establish their reputation
> by providing codecs. As I said, codecs aren't more complicated to
> install than any other kind of software. All you have to do is add the
> repository for non-free software. Then, you install Flash, mplayer and
> gstreamer. As far as I remember, that's about it. Anyways, instructions
> are easy to find.
And all I had to do is download MINT VS Ubuntu, and I didn't have to go
through the trouble of installing that stuff afterwords.
> So, I hope you don't equate providing the codecs with, say, providing a
> functioning version of SELinux.
Quite honestly, I don't really care.
> Red Hat has worked on this for years
> with teh NSA before it ran smoothly. Also, if you use Debian or Fedora,
> you can be sure that the code is reviewed more than once or twice. When
> you run the New York Stock Exchange, banks, the Hadron Collider or you
> have 1,000 programemrs at hand, it's harder for security issues to go
> unnoticed.
>
> Did you try Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva? Don't they also "just work"?
They probably do "just work". I tried the latest Fedora, and it wouldn't
boot. Didn't feel like investigating it to see why.
Since MINT /is based on/ Ubuntu(they use Ubuntu repositories). I was
just lazy. Download and install MINT, all the codecs are already there.
One less thing for me to install.
I haven't tried Mandriva. I've used Mandrake many years ago however. But
had trouble at the time installing RPM packages and their dependencies,
and then later switched to Debian, and ran a LAMP server off Debian for
a couple of years. At the time, APT was far better IMHO. Don't know, nor
do I care if either is better currently.
What I have currently works quite well for my needs.
Priam
> On 1/5/2010 4:59 PM, Priam wrote:
>> On 01/05/2010 09:28 AM, Steve Mackay wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a new fan of MINT. But, it's nothing more than Ubuntu with more eye
>>> candy, and codecs included. Installation was painless, and everything
>>> I've installed... "just works". The best part is, it was free.
>>
>> I'm a bit sceptical about distributions that establish their reputation
>> by providing codecs. As I said, codecs aren't more complicated to
>> install than any other kind of software. All you have to do is add the
>> repository for non-free software. Then, you install Flash, mplayer and
>> gstreamer. As far as I remember, that's about it. Anyways, instructions
>> are easy to find.
>
> And all I had to do is download MINT VS Ubuntu, and I didn't have to go
> through the trouble of installing that stuff afterwords.
It's surprizing that somedoby who ran a LAMP server figures installing
codecs is "trouble" :)
Anyway, as you say, I don't really care.
>> Red Hat has worked on this for years
>> with teh NSA before it ran smoothly. Also, if you use Debian or Fedora,
>> you can be sure that the code is reviewed more than once or twice. When
>> you run the New York Stock Exchange, banks, the Hadron Collider or you
>> have 1,000 programemrs at hand, it's harder for security issues to go
>> unnoticed.
>>
>> Did you try Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva? Don't they also "just work"?
>
> They probably do "just work". I tried the latest Fedora, and it wouldn't
> boot. Didn't feel like investigating it to see why.
Maybe:
> I haven't tried Mandriva. I've used Mandrake many years ago however. But
> had trouble at the time installing RPM packages and their dependencies,
> and then later switched to Debian, and ran a LAMP server off Debian for
> a couple of years. At the time, APT was far better IMHO. Don't know, nor
> do I care if either is better currently.
The rpm dependency hell is over by now.
> What I have currently works quite well for my needs.
Fine! It's just that I'd rather not personally vow for MINT, but it
might be an excellent distribution.