Battery recalibrate ideas
htnakirs
The battery lasts more than an hour, but, the power meter will show
critical level within 10 mins of running. I have tried the most common
recalibration technique - complete discharge and complete recharge -
many times, but there has been no change in this behaviour. I would
have let it pass, but the biggest problem is that once the power meter
indicates critical level (and the battery LED on the laptop begins to
flash), the system will not boot, unless plugged in. Once the system
boots, the power can be unplugged, and the system will continue
normally for close to an hour on the battery.
Any ideas?
BillW50
news:22bfb97d-dc34-4fa2...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com,
htnakirs typed on Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT):
1) Battery is 3 years old
2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power meter
reading, your battery is shot. As batteries deteriorate overtime from
the heat of the laptop. And power calibration usually relies on the
voltage of the battery, not the internal resistance which deteriorates.
Laptops consume 20 or more watts of power from the battery. This is a
few amperes of current. And a lithium battery with high internal
resistance will only function for a short period of time or none at all.
The battery should function for much more of the capacity if the current
draw is lessened. Although not much you can do to lighten this heavy
current draw on a laptop.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2
Larry
e001cc...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
> Any ideas?
>
>
Bad battery pack. Replace
--
Larry
Larry
september.org:
> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>
Horseshit.
--
Larry
BillW50
Larry typed on Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:56:47 +0000:
I have four batteries only two years old that were always left in the
laptop. I do my own research. And they were never used on battery power
and always on AC and charged. Want to buy them? They are worthless. Yet
the ones I left in a drawer are still doing just fine. Go figure, eh
Larry?
I am still doing research and the ones left in are losing capacity
overtime. Anybody can do this research. Just leave one battery in and
one battery out. And give it two years and then test the capacity of the
two batteries. And the evidence is clear as a bell.
Barry Watzman
board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands of posts
from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming, essentially
everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't agree on much !!):
Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged in, and it destroys
the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be some exceptions, but that
is the general rule. You can argue all you want that it shouldn't be
that way, and theoretically, you might even be right. But the
overwhelming evidence of laptop users is .... that this is the way that
it is. And reality beats theory every time.
htnakirs
> 1) Battery is 3 years old
>
> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>
> 3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
>
> If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power meter
> reading, your battery is shot. >
> Bill
> Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
> Windows XP SP2
The answer to the last question is NO, in my case. Eventhough the
meter shows critical level after 10 mins, the battery will support the
laptop for well over an hour - the LED will blink, but the laptop
continues till the battery dies and the laptop shuts down. So this is
not a question of the Li cell losing its capacity, rather the onboard
circuitry going bonkers.
But, from the response it seems there is no routine to recalibrate the
onboard circuitry. I guess I'll have to use it this way till the
battery loses capacity.
By the way, how frequently would you suggest that the battery should
be removed to prolong it's life?
BillW50
news:57b9c901-f6e7-4fe3...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com,
htnakirs typed on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:31:15 -0800 (PST):
>> 1) Battery is 3 years old
>>
>> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>>
>> 3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
>>
>> If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power
>> meter reading, your battery is shot. >
>
> meter shows critical level after 10 mins, the battery will support the
> laptop for well over an hour - the LED will blink, but the laptop
> continues till the battery dies and the laptop shuts down. So this is
> not a question of the Li cell losing its capacity, rather the onboard
> circuitry going bonkers.
>
> But, from the response it seems there is no routine to recalibrate the
> onboard circuitry. I guess I'll have to use it this way till the
> battery loses capacity.
Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
tells you.
http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
> By the way, how frequently would you suggest that the battery should
> be removed to prolong it's life?
It is best to leave it out whenever you are not using it on battery
power or charging it. Although you have had 3 years out of it and that
is doing well if it was left in. As this suggests the battery doesn't
get too warm too deteriorate very much. Do you believe this is true?
M.I.5�
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB5A2381E7...@74.209.131.13...
How do you know that isn't?
M.I.5�
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hci8hu$506$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on this
> board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands of posts
> from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming, essentially everyone
> had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't agree on much !!): Leave a
> battery in laptop that is always plugged in, and it destroys the battery
> over 6 to 24 months. There may be some exceptions, but that is the
> general rule. You can argue all you want that it shouldn't be that way,
> and theoretically, you might even be right. But the overwhelming evidence
> of laptop users is .... that this is the way that it is. And reality
> beats theory every time.
>
Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal. Best to
ignore him.
M.I.5�
"htnakirs" <htna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:57b9c901-f6e7-4fe3...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
----------
The symptoms that you post are consistent with an ageing battery. As the
battery ages, the internal resistance of the cells rises. As it is called
upon to deliver current, the terminal voltage of the battery falls more than
it should do. Various bits of circuitry interpret this as a battery short
on available capacity. That it isn't really short on such capacity manifast
itself by continuing to run. It may fail to reboot though depending on how
much capacity there really is left.
The battery should be removed whenever the laptop is connected to AC, except
when charging the battery. The battery is best charged when the laptop is
off to avoid unnecessily heating it up.
M.I.5�
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hck4ib$8gb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:57b9c901-f6e7-4fe3...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com,
> htnakirs typed on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:31:15 -0800 (PST):
>>> 1) Battery is 3 years old
>>>
>>> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>>>
>>> 3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
>>>
>>> If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power
>>> meter reading, your battery is shot. >
>>
>> The answer to the last question is NO, in my case. Eventhough the
>> meter shows critical level after 10 mins, the battery will support the
>> laptop for well over an hour - the LED will blink, but the laptop
>> continues till the battery dies and the laptop shuts down. So this is
>> not a question of the Li cell losing its capacity, rather the onboard
>> circuitry going bonkers.
>>
>> But, from the response it seems there is no routine to recalibrate the
>> onboard circuitry. I guess I'll have to use it this way till the
>> battery loses capacity.
>
> Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
> one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
> tells you.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
>
Be aware that BattStat, good though it is, doesn't always interface reliably
with all battery controllers. According to BattStat, my laptop takes a mere
26 MW from the battery (yes that MegaWatts folks).
BillW50
M.I.5� typed on Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:53:17 -0000:
> Be aware that BattStat, good though it is, doesn't always interface
> reliably with all battery controllers. According to BattStat, my
> laptop takes a mere 26 MW from the battery (yes that MegaWatts folks).
Yes this is true. As BattStat reports that my Asus EeePCs are
using -2.1MW. Also the CPU temperature doesn't follow the one read from
eeectl. While sometimes they are close, they appear to be two different
sensors. As BattStat reading will rise faster from being ice cold. But
will usually be colder once the netbook is all warmed up.
Larry
news:4aeeaa11$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....
Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
school.
--
Larry
BillW50
Larry typed on Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:16:07 +0000:
Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are operated
between 15�C (59�F) to 50�C (122�F). And by 70�C (158�F) the threat is
really from thermal runaway. Poof!
Barry Watzman
radio license in 1963, was operating 50,000 watt broadcast radio and TV
stations by himself with a 1st class FCC license in 1965, has a BSEE, US
Patents and copyrights, over 30 years of experience in the computer
industry with a number of PC and laptop manufacturers, is A+ and
Network+ and Microsoft certified.
And thinks you are full of it.
M.I.5�
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
50�C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.
M.I.5�
Your posts regularly demonstrate that in 50 years you have learnt nothing at
all about the technology.
htnakirs
> Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
> one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
> tells you.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
>
I used XP and Linux and the onboard battery meter behaviour is
consistent.
>
> It is best to leave it out whenever you are not using it on battery
> power or charging it. Although you have had 3 years out of it and that
> is doing well if it was left in. As this suggests the battery doesn't
> get too warm too deteriorate very much. Do you believe this is true?
>
> --
> Bill
> Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
> Windows XP SP2
Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.
Thanks for all the help, to all.
I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
meter accuracy.
BillW50
news:f1399b05-969b-4029...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com,
htnakirs typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:30:11 -0800 (PST):
> Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
> ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.
>
> Thanks for all the help, to all.
>
> I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
> battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
> tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
> see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
> meter accuracy.
Well the lithium is warmer than ambient when charging. Also charging
while the computer is in use increases it even higher. So it helps to
only charge when the machine is powered down.
Freezer? I never have seen any research to show this helps at all. Also
some claim that freezing actually hurts them. I haven't personally
tested this, so I don't have much experience with freezing lithiums.
Those old zinc batteries were helped by freezing, but I know of no other
battery type that freezing actually helps.
Refrigerator? This is debated a lot. I have kept non-chargeable lithiums
in the frig and it seems to help in my experience. As they are lasting
10+ years this way. Although the shelf life is also 10 years. So it is
hard to say if it is really helping. Although it doesn't seem to hurt.
I don't store rechargeable lithiums in the frig, but in a drawer. And
they generally last 10 years or more this way. So in the frig is
probably ok if you want to do this. In the freezer, well that might not
be such a great idea.
BillW50
M.I.5� typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:37:22 -0000:
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:hcngj2$i5f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>>
>> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are
>> operated between 15�C (59�F) to 50�C (122�F). And by 70�C (158�F)
>> the threat is really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>
> 50�C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.
It seems too high to me too. But I don't have any hard evidence that
they are incorrect. I am currently testing one battery sitting at 95�F
(35�C) and floated at 4.2v per cell. IMHO 4.2v is too high (but 4.10v is
fine), but you say it is okay. And I am not sure about 95�F, but I am
hoping this isn't warm enough to do any real harm.
M.I.5�
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
Laptops don't heat batteries by anywhere near this much and they kill them
inside a year.
BillW50
M.I.5�ｿｽ typed on Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:37:37 -0000:
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
>> In news:4aefeba0$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
>>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
>>> news:hcngj2$i5f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>>>>
>>>> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are
>>>> the threat is really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>>>
>>
>> It seems too high to me too. But I don't have any hard evidence that
>> they are incorrect. I am currently testing one battery sitting at
>> 4.10v is fine), but you say it is okay. And I am not sure about
>
> Laptops don't heat batteries by anywhere near this much and they kill
> them inside a year.
Are you sure? As plastic feels so much cooler than say metal. My Asus
EeePC netbooks gets 110�ｿｽF top and bottom. Although the battery is much
cooler. AJL calls his hot, while I call this lukewarm. And this is much
cooler than my laptops. My Toshiba 2595XDVD ('99 era) laptops for
example, are really hot. I should check them with my IR temperature gun.
They have to be in 130�ｿｽF range on the bottom at least. And the batteries
has to be very close to this.
AJL
>My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110�F top and bottom. Although the battery is much
>cooler. AJL calls his hot, while I call this lukewarm.
I didn't call your Eee PC netbook hot, I called my Eee PC netbook hot,
specifically my 2G Surf model (7" screen, 520M memory, 2G SSD). To the
touch it runs very hot. Course at only 2 pounds I usually hold it like
a newspaper to read it so perhaps it gets touched more. It has never
had a problem during operation so I'm guessing that it is just the
nature of the beast. While your netbooks look like this model there
are several differences and heat is apparently one of them.
Contrary to what you would think my more powerful netbook the Eee PC
1000HD (10" screen, 1G memory, 160G HDD) runs much cooler than the
little Surf and gets almost twice the battery time (same capacity
battery). So in later designs (and more expensive models) the design
has improved...
BillW50
AJL typed on Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:34:22 -0700:
It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.
As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot. Most
of the keyboard and the bottom of mine runs about 102�F. Although by the
right ALT key gets 110�F and one spot on the bottom also gets 110�F
(where the WiFi card sits). It is 75�F in this room and if left in
standby, runs about 85�F top and bottom. While the battery capacity
rating between your two, the 1000HD has a higher rated battery voltage,
right?
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 (quit Windows updates back in May 2009)
AJL
>My Asus EeePC netbooks gets 110�F top and bottom.
I just noticed this *Cool* article... ;)
BillW50
AJL typed on Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:26:06 -0700:
Oh I like that! ;-)
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
AJL
>It is ashamed you don't have anything to measure the temperature with.
Yes, I wish I had a way to accurately measure the surface temperature
so we could compare. I probably need one of those surface
thermometers. Maybe I could sneak the Surf into Home Depot and use the
demo??
>As I really believe we have different opinions on what we call hot.
That could very well be. Here in Phoenix we often are over 110 degrees
in the summer and yes I do call that hot... ;)
>While the battery capacity rating between your two, the 1000HD
>has a higher rated battery voltage, right?
Both batteries are 7.4V (4400 mAh). In fact their outside dimensions,
including the curves, are identical. Course Asus put a different
connector in each so I can't interchange them...
Barry Watzman
What would you do if you thought you had the flu? My guess is that you
do have a temperature measuring device.
BillW50
I have been checking the temperatures of both Asus and my Toshiba
2595XDVD laptops. Those Toshiba laptops I always thought of being hot.
Although they only read 110F at a few spots. Only when the fan kicks on
high, I can read 130F coming out of the fan. The Asus netbooks, the
highest I read is 110F. And not much difference if I am running Linux or
Windows XP. So maybe the Asus 700/701/702 *does* run hot. ;-)
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
htnakirs
battery meter functioning.
I think there has been a slight increase in the elapsed time before
the Critical level indicator comes up. But, I could be thinking it up.
In any case, the battery lasts for another 4 mins more after this.
So...