Most limited Netbook ever made!
BillW50
It is page 7 of their catalog if the link doesn't work.
260MHz processor
128MB of RAM
Windows CE 5.0
2GB SSD
7 hour run time on battery
7 inch LCD 800x600 display
$179.99
--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2
Adrian C
> Who makes this very limited netbook and who would ever buy one?
>
> http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/catalog_viewer.asp?GUID=88A436D6-97D6-432E-9EC9-224426087E2F&CS=4
>
>
> It is page 7 of their catalog if the link doesn't work.
>
> 260MHz processor
> 128MB of RAM
> Windows CE 5.0
> 2GB SSD
> 7 hour run time on battery
> 7 inch LCD 800x600 display
> $179.99
>
It's a toy.
Google "Lexibook Laptop" for something similar. That's sold here in the
UK (by Argos cat# 0817743) for �180 ($292).
* The Lexibook My First Computer is a real laptop that runs on
Microsoft Windows CE 5.0 which provides strong protection from viruses.
* Peace of mind when accessing the Internet is provided by the
built in parental controls that prevents access to inappropriate websites.
* Supplied Ready to Go straight from the box with Internet
Explorer, Messenger, Media Player, Word Processor, Spreadsheet, 6
language translator & 50 educational games.
* 8 LCD screen, 1GB flash hard drive, SD (HC) / MMC card reader,
Samsung 400Mhz CPU, 2 USB Ports, battery life up to 3.5 hours
* 1 of Lithium Battery Included
* For ages 6 years and over
* Size (H) 22.5 x (W) 16.4 x (D) 3 cms
Customer Reviews
"Good little computer for kids but unfortunatly you could not get it
wireless compatiable. so we had to take this item back as wires for
young children was unsuitable."
"This little computer is good if you stick to whats already built into
the lap top but as soon as you go onto the internet thats when the
problems begin.There just is"nt no memory on it,it just keeps telling
you to borrow storage from else where in the computer.We bought
additional 4Gb memory sticks which have done nothing.We have been told
to get enough memory to play games (which is what my daughters wanted)we
would have to purchase a hard drive..Not happy,wish we had bought a note
book instead!"
--
Adrian C
Roger Mills
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
> Who makes this very limited netbook and who would ever buy one?
>
> http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/catalog_viewer.asp?GUID=88A436D6-97D6-432E-9EC9-224426087E2F&CS=4
>
> It is page 7 of their catalog if the link doesn't work.
>
> 260MHz processor
> 128MB of RAM
> Windows CE 5.0
> 2GB SSD
> 7 hour run time on battery
> 7 inch LCD 800x600 display
> $179.99
It looks about as useful as this one from Maplin! <g>
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=257308&C=email-newsletter&U=09P12-07-NA68JJ&T=341473
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
Adrian C
>> 260MHz processor
>> 128MB of RAM
>> Windows CE 5.0
>> 2GB SSD
>> 7 hour run time on battery
>> 7 inch LCD 800x600 display
>> $179.99
>
> It looks about as useful as this one from Maplin! <g>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=257308&C=email-newsletter&U=09P12-07-NA68JJ&T=341473
>
That looks like the same one.
--
Adrian C
AJL
>In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> Who makes this very limited netbook and who would ever buy one?
>>
>> http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/catalog_viewer.asp?GUID=88A436D6-97D6-432E-9EC9-224426087E2F&CS=4
>>
>> It is page 7 of their catalog if the link doesn't work.
>>
>> 260MHz processor
>> 128MB of RAM
>> Windows CE 5.0
>> 2GB SSD
>> 7 hour run time on battery
>> 7 inch LCD 800x600 display
>> $179.99
>
>It looks about as useful as this one from Maplin! <g>
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=257308&C=email-newsletter&U=09P12-07-NA68JJ&T=341473
Or this one:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4209
Oh wait. That's mine and it often gets more use than my real laptops.
(It doesn't make sense to carry around an 8 lb Mac truck when a 2 lb
VW will do... ;)
Adrian C
Nah, that's a netbook built around the PC architecture. The previous
models discussed are not PC's, have limited expansion and a firmware
based operating system of Windows CE.
If windows CE could be dropped off these, and eldy installed then these
could perhaps get some serious use.
--
Adrian C
Richard Bonner
> Who makes this very limited netbook and who would ever buy one?
> 260MHz processor
> 128MB of RAM
> Windows CE 5.0
> 2GB SSD
> 7 hour run time on battery
> 7 inch LCD 800x600 display
> $179.99
> --
> Bill
*** If one doesn't think "bloatware", it's plenty useful. (-:
--
Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/
AJL
>AJL wrote:
>>
>> Or this one:
>> http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4209
>
>Nah, that's a netbook built around the PC architecture.
My Eee PC 2G Surf netbook though a PC is not really powerful enough to
run any reasonable version of Windows. It has a stunted version of
Xandros (Linux) that while it comes with lots of usable software is
difficult to impossible to upgrade. However it works great for what it
was designed for and it is still my choice when traveling. However
when a >US$200, 7 hour battery, tiny, cool running, instant loading
netbook comes along that fits my traveling needs I'll probably give it
a try. Heck except for the teeny screen my Palm TX does all that and I
paid north of $300 for it...
>The previous models discussed are not PC's, have limited expansion
My Eee PC 2G Surf netbook although a PC has most everything soldered
in...virtually no expansion possible. But I doubt the average Joe
cares in this type of device. I didn't.
>If windows CE could be dropped off these, and eldy installed then these
>could perhaps get some serious use.
>http://www.eldy.eu
From what I can tell in my local (Phoenix) big box stores the public
here has spoken. I no longer see any 7 or 9" netbooks, 10" seems to be
the smallest. And I haven't seen a Linux powered netbook in months. So
whether an underpowered tiny screened netbook without Windows would
sell or not is yet to be seen...
BillW50
> My Eee PC 2G Surf netbook though a PC is not really powerful enough to
> run any reasonable version of Windows.
Actually it should run Windows 2000 SP4 very well. As I created a
slipstream SP4 version and it was only 700MB in size after installation.
Although I did also use Windows Update and that would overwhelm your 2GB
SSD. Even the 4GB SSD I did this one filled up to about 3GB. So without
any updates, Windows 2000 SP4 should be just fine on that machine. I
believe if I only had a 2GB SSD machine, that is what I would do. And
your 512MB of RAM is perfect for Windows 2000. As it should run fine
even without a swapfile.
> It has a stunted version of
> Xandros (Linux) that while it comes with lots of usable software is
> difficult to impossible to upgrade. However it works great for what it
> was designed for and it is still my choice when traveling. However
> when a >US$200, 7 hour battery, tiny, cool running, instant loading
> netbook comes along that fits my traveling needs I'll probably give it
> a try. Heck except for the teeny screen my Palm TX does all that and I
> paid north of $300 for it...
Are you considering one of those Windows CE netbooks? :-o
>> The previous models discussed are not PC's, have limited expansion
>
> My Eee PC 2G Surf netbook although a PC has most everything soldered
> in...virtually no expansion possible. But I doubt the average Joe
> cares in this type of device. I didn't.
I was thinking of you when I posted this thread. As I for one would
rather have your limited machine than one of those Windows CE ones. As
yours has more RAM, more CPU power, and can actually run a real Windows.
Okay Windows XP would be tough, but it will run Windows 2000 without
problems. Well if you stay away from updates anyway. ;-)
>> If windows CE could be dropped off these, and eldy installed then these
>> could perhaps get some serious use.
>> http://www.eldy.eu
>
> From what I can tell in my local (Phoenix) big box stores the public
> here has spoken. I no longer see any 7 or 9" netbooks, 10" seems to be
> the smallest. And I haven't seen a Linux powered netbook in months. So
> whether an underpowered tiny screened netbook without Windows would
> sell or not is yet to be seen...
It is funny. The first netbooks didn't have Windows at all, but just
Linux. I thought things were going pretty well actually. And
manufactures (ok at this time it was just Asus) didn't want to sell
Windows systems because it was too costly. Well Microsoft didn't want
Linux to get big into the netbook craze, offered them a great deal on
Windows XP. So Asus went for it. So when users were given a choice,
would spent a few bucks more for a Windows version.
I guess the word is out about Linux. And that is, when in doubt... get
Windows. Linux itself isn't too bad, but the worst part is that it isn't
Windows. And I think this is what turns most people off about Linux.
AJL
>AJL wrote on Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:10:56 -0700:
>> My Eee PC 2G Surf netbook though a PC is not really powerful enough to
>> run any reasonable version of Windows.
>Actually it should run Windows 2000 SP4 very well.
Could be. Asus apparently thinks the 2G Surf will run XP since they
included the XP drivers on my (Xandros) restore disk.
>Are you considering one of those Windows CE netbooks? :-o
Maybe, if I ever see one sitting on the shelf at my local Target. I
often buy on impulse. Earlier impulse buys at that Target store were
my first Palm and my first Eee PC. I certainly have enjoyed those.
>I for one would rather have your limited machine than one of those
>Windows CE ones. As yours has more RAM, more CPU power...
If all I do with it is to surf, email, Usenet, ect. then I really
don't need more computing power. The new netbook may actually run cool
(unlike my 2G Surf lap heater) with no fan (and no fan noise). It
would have a real battery life (maybe 7 hours instead of the 2G Surf's
measly 2.5 hours) and perhaps will be yet even smaller and lighter.
>The first netbooks didn't have Windows at all, but just Linux....
The return ratio for Linux netbooks was substantially higher than for
Windows netbooks. IMO that was a lot of the reason.
>Linux itself isn't too bad, but the worst part is that it isn't
>Windows. And I think this is what turns most people off about Linux.
You yourself prefer Windows, you've said it here many times. While I
have enjoyed playing with several versions of the Linux OS it always
seemed to me to be a bit of challenge. That's fine for hobbyists but
not for the general public. And that seems to be how they have voted
with their wallets.
Bud
>
> * For ages 6 years and over
>
> * Size (H) 22.5 x (W) 16.4 x (D) 3 cms
>
I bought a Asus eeePC with Zandros Linux on it for my neice and she enjoys
it. After she got used to it and the free high speed Internet provided
by other PC machines with wireless networks, she was on MySpace in no
time and had dozens of friends. However, the display has cracked and is
now useless. To go through the process of trying to find a repair
center is a headache and a half. BTW, the display is not covered in
their warranty, bastaards. Got her a monitor, better than mine even,
but now her interest has wained. Ah, youth!
--
Bud
BillW50
Bud typed on 12 Dec 2009 19:57:22 GMT:
Actually those EeePC screens are very easy to change. Even swapping out
the motherboards are very easy too. One of my EeePC netbooks that I gave
to my nephew, I bought that had a cracked screen on eBay. The guy said
his wife accidentally sat on it in a chair. And I bought another one
with a bad motherboard and used the screen from that one. They are much
easier to work on than most laptops believe it or not. Working screens
on eBay goes for around 50 bucks.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2
Bud
>
> Actually those EeePC screens are very easy to change. Even swapping out
> the motherboards are very easy too. One of my EeePC netbooks that I gave
> to my nephew, I bought that had a cracked screen on eBay. The guy said
> his wife accidentally sat on it in a chair. And I bought another one
> with a bad motherboard and used the screen from that one. They are much
> easier to work on than most laptops believe it or not. Working screens
> on eBay goes for around 50 bucks.
Yeah, I told them to send me a screen, but they will not do it. Thanks
for the hint.
--
Bud
Richard Bonner
> From what I can tell in my local (Phoenix) big box stores the public
> here has spoken. I no longer see any 7 or 9" netbooks, 10" seems to be
> the smallest. And I haven't seen a Linux powered netbook in months. So
> whether an underpowered tiny screened netbook without Windows would
> sell or not is yet to be seen...
*** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as opposed
to a smaller-screened netbook.
Richard Bonner
> BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
> >AJL wrote on Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:10:56 -0700:
> >Linux itself isn't too bad, but the worst part is that it isn't
> >Windows. And I think this is what turns most people off about Linux.
*** Perhaps It may be that they want to run MS software. If not, there
are Linux desktops that mimic Windows.
> You yourself prefer Windows, you've said it here many times. While I
> have enjoyed playing with several versions of the Linux OS it always
> seemed to me to be a bit of challenge. That's fine for hobbyists but
> not for the general public. And that seems to be how they have voted
> with their wallets.
*** It depends on the version. Ubuntu seems to be less of a challenge,
although newer versions are pretty bloated and have issues.
A Linux distro I'd recommend for Windows users is Knoppix with the KDE
desktop.
Richard Bonner
> I bought a Asus eeePC with Zandros Linux on it for my niece and she
> enjoys it. After she got used to it...
*** I have a friend with that same model and operating system. It does
not take too much effort to get used to it.
> and the free high speed Internet provided
> by other PC machines with wireless networks, she was on MySpace in no
> time and had dozens of friends. However, the display has cracked and is
> now useless. To go through the process of trying to find a repair
> center is a headache and a half.
*** Sorry to hear that. I am lucky because just a few minutes away
is an excellent business: A1 Laptop Repair. They never try to upsell you
and if you walk in with a 386 laptop, they will attempt to repair it.
They disassemble old laptops for parts and can often offer used screens.
> BTW, the display is not covered in their warranty - bastards.
*** Hmm, would a cracked screen even fall under warranty, anyway?
> Got her a monitor, better than mine even,
> but now her interest has wained. Ah, youth!
> --
> Bud
*** Yeah, the e3PCs are meant to be portable, not be encumbered with an
external monitor. Where do you live? A1 might be an option.
BillW50
Richard Bonner typed on Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:29:09 +0000 (UTC):
> A Linux distro I'd recommend for Windows users is Knoppix with the
> KDE desktop.
Xandros also uses KDE desktop. They come with Asus EeePCs. Although they
are setup to use easy mode vs. advanced mode which looks a lot more like
Windows. Although it is hard to find updated applications or
applications in general for KDE. For example, I haven't seen anything
newer than Firefox 2.0 yet for it. Although I haven't checked in a few
months.
BillW50
Richard Bonner typed on Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:22:17 +0000 (UTC):
> AJL (3...@fakeaddress.com) wrote:
>> From what I can tell in my local (Phoenix) big box stores the public
>> here has spoken. I no longer see any 7 or 9" netbooks, 10" seems to
>> be the smallest. And I haven't seen a Linux powered netbook in
>> months. So whether an underpowered tiny screened netbook without
>> Windows would sell or not is yet to be seen...
>
> *** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as
> opposed to a smaller-screened netbook.
I used my Palms a lot over the many years. Although I quickly got a real
keyboard for the thing. As replying to email and newsgroups was a real
pain without a keyboard. And webpages are too small on PDAs too. So
netbooks are so much better to carry around and to actually use. I carry
mine around in a small case with a strap. It works really well. Much,
much lighter than a laptop as well. Even if I take a few extra batteries
along with me.
AJL
>*** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as opposed
>to a smaller-screened netbook.
Except for the mobile sites it gets tiresome scrolling on the tiny
screen of a PDA. On the other hand it's hard to fit a netbook in your
front pants pocket... ;)
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>Windows. Although it is hard to find updated applications or
>applications in general for KDE. For example, I haven't seen anything
>newer than Firefox 2.0 yet for it. Although I haven't checked in a few
>months.
Firefox isn't dependent on KDE. You should be able to run the
current 3.0.8 just fine.
BillW50
AJL typed on Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:48:28 -0700:
Carrying a netbook is no worse than carrying a small book. It sure beats
carrying around a laptop. And it takes up barely more room than my Palm
IIIc with its folding keyboard. Plus it is tons more useful and has a
far better keyboard to boot. And no stylist to use or lose either.
BillW50
Asus Xandros repository doesn't list any updates to Firefox 2.0.0.7 ('07
era). And this Thunderbird is 2.0.0.6 (also '07 era) and no updates for
that either.
I was just playing a WMA file under Linux and opened up the Add/Remove
utility and then the Music Manager player locked up. Killed the process
and now it says that file is gone from my flash disk. Why people put up
with Linux with the amateurish applications is beyond my comprehension.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
AJL
>In news:gohii5t4im642sahl...@4ax.com,
>AJL typed on Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:48:28 -0700:
>> ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard Bonner) wrote:
>>
>>> *** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as
>>> opposed to a smaller-screened netbook.
>>
>> Except for the mobile sites it gets tiresome scrolling on the tiny
>> screen of a PDA. On the other hand it's hard to fit a netbook in your
>> front pants pocket... ;)
>
>Carrying a netbook is no worse than carrying a small book.
A small book won't fit in my front pants pocket. And my PDA is almost
2 pounds lighter than my netbook, so no saggy pocket either...
>It sure beats carrying around a laptop.
A netbook beats carrying around a laptop if that's all you need. A PDA
(or smartphone) beats carrying around a netbook if that's all you need
when out and about.
>And it takes up barely more room than my Palm
>IIIc with its folding keyboard.
Your Palm IIIc is quite obsolete (no wireless, no expansion card, no
mp3, no BT, slow OS, minuscule memory, ect ect) If that's the only PDA
you have perhaps the netbook is a better choice to carry.
>Plus it is tons more useful and has a far better keyboard...
In the last post I tried to point out (with some humor apparently
lost) that PDAs and netbooks are different devices with different
purposes. Preference of one over the other would depend on what the
buyer needed or wanted. In my case I went for several of each... ;)
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>Asus Xandros repository doesn't list any updates to Firefox 2.0.0.7 ('07
>era). And this Thunderbird is 2.0.0.6 (also '07 era) and no updates for
>that either.
Just install it from mozilla.com.
BillW50
the wharf rat typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:05:26 +0000 (UTC):
Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program and
double click on it and you are good to go. You have to type lots of
stuff in the terminal window first before you can do anything.
AJL
> In news:hgddr6$q0f$2...@reader1.panix.com,
> the wharf rat typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:05:26 +0000 (UTC):
>> In article <hgbkqk$gg0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>
>>> Asus Xandros repository doesn't list any updates to Firefox 2.0.0.7
>>> ('07 era). And this Thunderbird is 2.0.0.6 (also '07 era) and no
>>> updates for that either.
>>
>> Just install it from mozilla.com.
>
> Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program and
> double click on it and you are good to go.
It does in some Linux versions. Many I've tried recently have a download
package handlers that work quite well. You simply select the app you want
(Including Firefox) and it downloads and installs. No terminal window
required.
> You have to type lots of
> stuff in the terminal window first before you can do anything.
Even Xandros on this Eee PC 2G Surf has a package handler (Synaptic) that
will download and install without the terminal. I got this Usenet reader
(Knode) that way. Course I had to modify a file in the Ice Window Manager
to get a launch icon but I still didn't need the terminal window...
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program and
>double click on it and you are good to go.
Of course you can.
BillW50
AJL typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:15:58 -0700:
> BillW50 wrote:
>
>> In news:hgddr6$q0f$2...@reader1.panix.com,
>> the wharf rat typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:05:26 +0000 (UTC):
>>> In article <hgbkqk$gg0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Asus Xandros repository doesn't list any updates to Firefox 2.0.0.7
>>>> ('07 era). And this Thunderbird is 2.0.0.6 (also '07 era) and no
>>>> updates for that either.
>>>
>>> Just install it from mozilla.com.
>>
>> Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program
>> and double click on it and you are good to go.
>
> It does in some Linux versions. Many I've tried recently have a
> download package handlers that work quite well. You simply select the
> app you want (Including Firefox) and it downloads and installs. No
> terminal window required.
But with that method, you need a repository address. Webpages doesn't
work.
>> You have to type lots of
>> stuff in the terminal window first before you can do anything.
>
> Even Xandros on this Eee PC 2G Surf has a package handler (Synaptic)
> that will download and install without the terminal. I got this
> Usenet reader (Knode) that way. Course I had to modify a file in the
> Ice Window Manager to get a launch icon but I still didn't need the
> terminal window...
You didn't have go to the terminal window and give yourself root access
control before installing? I can't even access the KDE desktop without
modifying the system by giving myself root level access first.
And my experience with Xandros is that you can't change too much,
otherwise Xandros sees itself as corrupt and resets everything to
factory state without warning. Surely you would think it would say hit
any key to continue or something. Nope, it just says I am doing it and
nothing you can do about it.
BillW50
the wharf rat typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:06:45 +0000 (UTC):
Okay I'll give it a shot here this weekend. I'll let you know what
happens. <grin>
Richard Bonner
> Richard Bonner typed:
> > A Linux distro I'd recommend for Windows users is Knoppix with
> > the KDE desktop.
> Xandros also uses KDE desktop. They come with Asus EeePCs. Although they
> are set up to use easy mode vs. advanced mode which looks a lot more
> like Windows. Although it is hard to find updated applications or
> applications in general for KDE. For example, I haven't seen anything
> newer than Firefox 2.0 yet for it. Although I haven't checked in a few
> months.
> --
> Bill
*** I haven't fired up Knoppix in some time, so I was unaware that
newer applications were not available. I recommended it because it seems
easy for Windows users to catch on to it.
Richard Bonner
> Richard Bonner typed:
> > AJL (3...@fakeaddress.com) wrote:
> >> From what I can tell in my local (Phoenix) big box stores the public
> >> here has spoken. I no longer see any 7 or 9" netbooks, 10" seems to
> >> be the smallest. And I haven't seen a Linux powered netbook in
> >> months. So whether an underpowered tiny screened netbook without
> >> Windows would sell or not is yet to be seen...
> >
> > *** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as
> > opposed to a smaller-screened netbook.
> I used my Palms a lot over the many years. Although I quickly got a real
> keyboard for the thing. As replying to email and newsgroups was a real
> pain without a keyboard.
*** I used to have a Casio PDA; it had a small screen but did sport a
full, albeit small, keyboard.
> webpages are too small on PDAs too.
> --
> Bill
*** True, but I see a lot of students using them at schools - probably
because they are cheap, portable, and most schools here offer free
wireless to any student on campus.
PDAs are OK for a quick surf of a site for immediate-info usage but
require a lot of side scrolling or zooming to see a typical page. It
would help if webpage authors designed their sites to float so as to
shrink or enlarge to fit a given browser window.
Richard Bonner
> ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard Bonner) wrote:
> >*** I would think that people would tend to go for a handheld as opposed
> >to a smaller-screened netbook.
> Except for the mobile sites it gets tiresome scrolling on the tiny
> screen of a PDA.
(Snip)
*** That is why I design my webpages to float so they will shrink or
enlarge to fill the given browser window.
Of course, on really small screens, one has to zoom to read the text.
However, it does mean that the full width can be seen at a glance. That
allows navigation to the wanted area; then one can enlarge that section.
Again, I am not saying that these are *the* portable devices for
websurfing, but for fast checks of information, they will suffice.
Richard Bonner
> Carrying a netbook is no worse than carrying a small book. It sure beats
> carrying around a laptop. And it takes up barely more room than my Palm
> IIIc with its folding keyboard. Plus it is tons more useful and has a
> far better keyboard to boot. And no stylist to use or lose either.
> --
> Bill
*** You travel with your own stylist? Wow! You're like a rockstar! (-:
Richard Bonner
> I was just playing a WMA file under Linux and opened up the Add/Remove
> utility and then the Music Manager player locked up. Killed the process
> and now it says that file is gone from my flash disk. Why people put up
> with Linux with the amateurish applications is beyond my comprehension.
> --
> Bill
*** It's not Linux - it's the amateurish applications. (-:
AJL
>AJL typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:15:58 -0700:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program
>>> and double click on it and you are good to go.
>> It does in some Linux versions.
>But with that method, you need a repository address.
The repository address is built into the OS download package. Just a
couple of clicks to download and install any of the repositories
listed programs.
>Webpages doesn't work.
I agree that downloading is often more difficult in Linux than
Windows, but your above *general* statement on all Linux downloading
was incorrect and that's what I was pointing out.
>And my experience with Xandros is that you can't change too much,
>otherwise Xandros sees itself as corrupt and resets everything to
>factory state without warning.
I've done a lot of modifying on mine with no problems. But you're not
stuck with Xandros. There are many Eee specific Linux distros that
work quite well with the hardware. I've tried several but have always
come back to Xandros. And of course you could always remove the
factory reset option and gain some space to boot.
AJL
> PDAs are OK for a quick surf of a site for immediate-info usage but
>require a lot of side scrolling or zooming to see a typical page. It
>would help if webpage authors designed their sites to float so as to
>shrink or enlarge to fit a given browser window.
Since the advent of the smartpphone most popular websites have a
'mobile' version that is designed for a small phone screen but also
works very well on a modern wireless PDA as well. No scrolling
required...
BillW50
Richard Bonner typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:05:09 +0000 (UTC):
Thanks Richard! Although got any recommendations to a distro that
everything actually works? The part of it being easy for Windows users
isn't important to me since I used many different kinds of systems
anyway.
BillW50
AJL typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:59:03 -0700:
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>> AJL typed on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:15:58 -0700:
>>> BillW50 wrote:
>
>>>> Linux doesn't work like Windows. You just can't download a program
>>>> and double click on it and you are good to go.
>
>>> It does in some Linux versions.
>
>> But with that method, you need a repository address.
>
> The repository address is built into the OS download package. Just a
> couple of clicks to download and install any of the repositories
> listed programs.
Can I update my two year old Firefox this way?
>> Webpages doesn't work.
>
> I agree that downloading is often more difficult in Linux than
> Windows, but your above *general* statement on all Linux downloading
> was incorrect and that's what I was pointing out.
Which Linux distro allows you grab a file from a webpage and allows
installation by double clicking on it.
>> And my experience with Xandros is that you can't change too much,
>> otherwise Xandros sees itself as corrupt and resets everything to
>> factory state without warning.
>
> I've done a lot of modifying on mine with no problems. But you're not
> stuck with Xandros. There are many Eee specific Linux distros that
> work quite well with the hardware. I've tried several but have always
> come back to Xandros. And of course you could always remove the
> factory reset option and gain some space to boot.
I tried Puppy Linux and Ubuntu that were setup for the EeePC. Although I
never got the wireless to ever work right. Only Xandros works with the
wireless. But then you have to put up with Xandros limitations.
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>Thanks Richard! Although got any recommendations to a distro that
>everything actually works? The part of it being easy for Windows users
I usually recommend CentOS or redhat to commercial users.
AJL
>AJL typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:59:03 -0700:
>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>> The repository address is built into the OS download package. Just a
>> couple of clicks to download and install any of the repositories
>> listed programs.
>
>Can I update my two year old Firefox this way?
In the more popular Linux OSs that I've tried, the repository that the
download package points to is kept current including Firefox.
>Which Linux distro allows you grab a file from a webpage and allows
>installation by double clicking on it.
Dunno. I've only tried a tiny portion of distros, though more than
3... ;) But your question is probably retorical meaning you think
no. Is this where we start listing what each OS can and can't do? I'll
bet the church of Linux could think of a few things that the Windows
devil can't do... ;)
>I tried Puppy Linux and Ubuntu that were setup for the EeePC. Although I
>never got the wireless to ever work right.
Tried both. The wireless was ok on mine but I hated the long boot up
times. Xandros is 25 seconds. Always something. (BTW XP is also 25
seconds and hibernation recovery is 13 seconds on my other Eee PC
netbook...not bad for Windows.)
>But then you have to put up with Xandros limitations.
If you follow eeeuser.com you will see that Xandros can be modified to
do about anything other distros can do. I enjoy playing with the
innards but only as a hobbyist. Perhaps those limitations are more
prevalent to you experts... ;)
BillW50
the wharf rat typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:55:38 +0000 (UTC):
Okay my fault. Let me explain. What makes Windows very popular is that
it makes for a great general purpose desktop OS. While Linux tries to
full those shoes, it does fall far short. Probably the worst part of
Linux is in the multimedia department. Although drivers are another
concern.
Most businesses doesn't care about multimedia or drivers for their
external devices too much. But most home users do. So is there a distro
of Linux that fills this need? Currently I have hundreds of DVDs I have
recorded in 6 hours format per disc. There are zillions of Windows
programs out there that can handle this task. Although I have been
putting this task off until I find the fastest and the most productive
way to compress these videos and store them on TBs of disk space.
I have found one program under Windows that seems to be the best I am
going to get. As it compresses 4 times real time speed on these 1.5GHz
Celerons. Having three of them will handle the task 12 times real time
speed. So I am pretty much set to convert them all. And all I need is a
program to read 6 hour DVD and allow me to trim the programs to
individual files.
And you really think Linux is up to this task? I also have been looking
for a stream recorder for Linux that can handle my subscriptions. Under
Windows there are a number of options. Under Linux, I see nothing that
will work.
BillW50
AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:11:31 -0700:
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> AJL typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:59:03 -0700:
>>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>>> The repository address is built into the OS download package. Just a
>>> couple of clicks to download and install any of the repositories
>>> listed programs.
>>
>> Can I update my two year old Firefox this way?
>
> In the more popular Linux OSs that I've tried, the repository that the
> download package points to is kept current including Firefox.
Okay I believe you and I'll give it a shot. Although curiously, anything
available besides Firefox? It is okay and everything, but I like Opera
10.10 and IE6 far better.
>> Which Linux distro allows you grab a file from a webpage and allows
>> installation by double clicking on it.
>
> Dunno. I've only tried a tiny portion of distros, though more than
> 3... ;) But your question is probably retorical meaning you think
> no. Is this where we start listing what each OS can and can't do? I'll
> bet the church of Linux could think of a few things that the Windows
> devil can't do... ;)
You mean like needing repositories, which Windows hasn't seen the need
for that yet? Although don't give Microsoft any bright ideas. If they
only knew that they could make money off of Windows repositories, I am
sure that will be coming. And that would be a good thing?
>> I tried Puppy Linux and Ubuntu that were setup for the EeePC.
>> Although I never got the wireless to ever work right.
>
> Tried both. The wireless was ok on mine but I hated the long boot up
> times. Xandros is 25 seconds. Always something. (BTW XP is also 25
> seconds and hibernation recovery is 13 seconds on my other Eee PC
> netbook...not bad for Windows.)
Yes the Xandros in easy mode that boot time is very impressive (advanced
mode takes twice as long). Although all of that greatness is lost when
you have to wait for the WiFi connection to connect. If I remember
correctly, that takes another 30-45 seconds with a WPA connection.
>> But then you have to put up with Xandros limitations.
>
> If you follow eeeuser.com you will see that Xandros can be modified to
> do about anything other distros can do. I enjoy playing with the
> innards but only as a hobbyist. Perhaps those limitations are more
> prevalent to you experts... ;)
No it isn't that. It is that all of the OS I have used; RT-11, CP/M,
DOS, CBM, GEOS, Windows, OS/2, etc. none of them even come close to the
language used in Linux. So Linux is so dissimilar with all of them and
it might as well be written in Greek to me. Maybe if I started with UNIX
or Linux things would be a lot different. And maybe all of the others
would be very difficult instead of so very easy for me. <grin>
Like the Linux/Unix command sudo for example! It doesn't even sound
English. But it sounds like Klingon talk or something. Worse, it is
short for "switchuser do". And what kind of English is that? How is
anybody supposed to learn something that doesn't make any sense
whatsoever? Maybe if you are a geek and like Star Trek or something and
can easily speak in Klingon, this stuff might come easy to you. But it
isn't so easy for those of us less talented. <wink>
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>So I am pretty much set to convert them all. And all I need is a
>program to read 6 hour DVD and allow me to trim the programs to
>individual files.
>
I'm not really sure what you're asking. In any case the absence
of one particular niche application isn't a condemnation of an entire
genre of operating systems, is it?
I'm sure a Mac would do what you want, BTW. Mac still owns much
of the digital publishing/imaging world.
Didn't Pixar used to use Irix???
AJL
>anything available besides Firefox?
I often use Kommander on my 2G Surf, but that probably wouldn't
impress you much either.
>I like Opera 10.10
Seems to be available (even an Xandros Eee PC version at the bottom):
http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=linux
>and IE6 far better.
You can do that too:
http://digg.com/programming/How_to_run_IE6_on_Linux_(wine_is_getting_pretty_impressive)
>[Xandros] advanced mode takes twice as long).
Course you don't have to use advanced mode. A few file tweaks to the
included Ice Window Manager gives you a Windows like start icon with
the same expanding menu selection. Makes me feel right at home...just
like using my XP netbook... ;)
>Although all of that greatness is lost when you
>have to wait for the WiFi connection to connect. If I remember
>correctly, that takes another 30-45 seconds with a WPA connection.
WiFi startup is slow on my Linux Eee but it's not Xandros. I think
it's a hardware thing since all the other OS's I tried took just as
long. And it's still faster than my Vista notebook which takes well
over a minute just to boot... ;)
Irony: When transistors came in I remember how glad I was that I would
never again have to wait for my electronic toys to warm up...
>all of the OS I have used; RT-11, CP/M,
>DOS, CBM, GEOS, Windows, OS/2, etc. none of them even come close to the
>language used in Linux.
I was surprised to find that most of the more common DOS commands I
use to use also work in the Linux terminal window.
>Like the Linux/Unix command sudo for example! It doesn't even sound
>English. But it sounds like Klingon talk or something.
I've heard a lot of complaints about Linux in these Linux/Windows wars
but not sounding like English is a definitely a first...
BillW50
AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:21:57 -0700:
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> anything available besides Firefox?
>
> I often use Kommander on my 2G Surf, but that probably wouldn't
> impress you much either.
Well if you like it and you being a respected member of this community,
it is worth checking out. <grin>
>> I like Opera 10.10
>
> Seems to be available (even an Xandros Eee PC version at the bottom):
> http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=linux
Good deal! Opera itself is near perfect, but it falls short when it
comes to Firefox and/or IE only scripts. It has to be something, doesn't
it?
>> and IE6 far better.
>
> You can do that too:
> http://digg.com/programming/How_to_run_IE6_on_Linux_(wine_is_getting_pretty_impressive)
Come on really? Did you try it? I have been following Wine years ago and
they made a name for themselves by getting MS Office to run. Do you
really believe they really have moved on much farther?
>> [Xandros] advanced mode takes twice as long).
>
> Course you don't have to use advanced mode. A few file tweaks to the
> included Ice Window Manager gives you a Windows like start icon with
> the same expanding menu selection. Makes me feel right at home...just
> like using my XP netbook... ;)
Okay it is on my to do list. Hopefully Xandros won't barf and restore
everything to the factory state before then.
>> Although all of that greatness is lost when you
>> have to wait for the WiFi connection to connect. If I remember
>> correctly, that takes another 30-45 seconds with a WPA connection.
>
> WiFi startup is slow on my Linux Eee but it's not Xandros. I think
> it's a hardware thing since all the other OS's I tried took just as
> long. And it's still faster than my Vista notebook which takes well
> over a minute just to boot... ;)
Add it up, even with a 30 to 45 second delay time for the Xandros to
grab WiFi, you already have Vista loaded and WiFi connected.
> Irony: When transistors came in I remember how glad I was that I would
> never again have to wait for my electronic toys to warm up...
Things I though was going well in the early 80's. Commodores booted in
like 5 seconds, my Epson PX-8 booted CP/M in like 2 seconds. But
nowadays I actually have to wait? What is up with that? Sure
applications were far slower back then. But OS were far faster too.
>> all of the OS I have used; RT-11, CP/M,
>> DOS, CBM, GEOS, Windows, OS/2, etc. none of them even come close to
>> the language used in Linux.
>
> I was surprised to find that most of the more common DOS commands I
> use to use also work in the Linux terminal window.
Really? Please share. As there was like five basic DOS commands that
were built into Command.com. I'll probably get this partially wrong, but
like DIR, COPY, REN, DEL, and TYPE. So which ones are the same under
Linux?
>> Like the Linux/Unix command sudo for example! It doesn't even sound
>> English. But it sounds like Klingon talk or something.
>
> I've heard a lot of complaints about Linux in these Linux/Windows wars
> but not sounding like English is a definitely a first...
Really? Well I do come up with things that it seems like nobody else has
before. Chalk it up to deep thinking? Btw, I don't refer them as wars,
but as personal experiences. <grin>
P.S. I do regret saying that "switchuser do" sounds pretty meaningless.
After some more thought, it sounds more like baby talk to me. Although
that doesn't impress me anymore.
felmon
> But most home users do. So is there a distro of Linux that fills this
> need? Currently I have hundreds of DVDs I have recorded in 6 hours
> format per disc. There are zillions of Windows programs out there that
> can handle this task. Although I have been putting this task off until I
> find the fastest and the most productive way to compress these videos
> and store them on TBs of disk space.
I am not sure this is a question of "which distro?" but of "which apps to
use?" but I am not quite sure what you are trying to do either.
not that I can necessarily help but if you give a bit more detail or even
just name the Windows application that does the job, perhaps I, or more
likely, someone else, can set it up for you in Linux.
I am not that versed in Windows apps so I can't judge but I find Linux
generally easier (yes, partly due to familiarity, I grant) to use for this
sort of thing. usually requires a simple command and done - except for
processing time.
I am very curious what you are doing since I like playing with video
stuff.
again, I hasten to repeat, I don't know if I can help directly. but I also
repeat, this seems a matter of finding the right programs, not the right
operating system.
Felmon
felmon
> BillW50 (Bil...@aol.kom) wrote:
>> I was just playing a WMA file under Linux and opened up the Add/Remove
>> utility and then the Music Manager player locked up. Killed the process
>> and now it says that file is gone from my flash disk. Why people put up
>> with Linux with the amateurish applications is beyond my comprehension.
>
>> --
>> Bill
>
> *** It's not Linux - it's the amateurish applications. (-:
would only be a consolation if one could use the operating system,
or the kernel, without applications.
but I understand you are being ironical.
I do think when a person is uncomfortable with an operating system and
its apps, they have experiences like BillW50's though.
it would be nice if more Linux apps had 'spit and polish', if they
_looked_ neater and more finished. for this reason I love k3b. it is
easy enough to burn a dvd from the commandline but k3b is a pleasure
to use.
Felmon
felmon
> *** I haven't fired up Knoppix in some time, so I was unaware that
> newer applications were not available. I recommended it because it seems
> easy for Windows users to catch on to it.
can you correct a possible misunderstanding of mine? I was under the
impression one shouldn't actually _install_ Knoppix, in other words,
it is _essentially_ a _live_ distribution. is this wrong?
a year or so ago I actually installed it and when problem-shooting, a
seemingly knowledgeable fellow insisted that was a bad idea. I soon
decided he was right.
maybe more recent stuff now permits installation?
it is a great live distribution though!
Felmon
AJL
>AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:21:57 -0700:
>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>> I often use Kommander on my 2G Surf, but that probably wouldn't
>> impress you much either.
>
>Well if you like it and you being a respected member of this community,
>it is worth checking out. <grin>
On my 2G Surf netbook Kommander was already installed, just hidden.
Asus apparently thought that Firefox was the better choice for the
general non-Linux public. Try typing "Kommander" in the terminal
window to see if your Eee already has it. If so it's easy to add to
the IWM Start menu.
>Opera itself is near perfect, but it falls short when it
>comes to Firefox and/or IE only scripts. It has to be something, doesn't
>it?
Depends on what you do. I like to read newspapers and news sites which
is mostly text and photos. So I actually like the Firefox 2 that came
on the Surf. I use the Noscript add-on which removes the moving ads
and speeds up the page loading. But yes on my Windows machines I have
them all, Opera, Chrome, Safari ect and IE of course.
>> http://digg.com/programming/How_to_run_IE6_on_Linux_(wine_is_getting_pretty_impressive)
>
>Come on really? Did you try it?
No I have no need of IE6. Question is did you try it? You were the one
who wanted IE6 on Linux. Nothing ventured nothing gained...
>I have been following Wine years ago and
>they made a name for themselves by getting MS Office to run. Do you
>really believe they really have moved on much farther?
Only way to find out is try it. On my Surf I have Sea Monkey and this
Agent newsreader working using wine.
>Things I though was going well in the early 80's. Commodores booted in
>like 5 seconds, my Epson PX-8 booted CP/M in like 2 seconds.
My Palms still boot instantly. Upcoming netbooks will have instant
booting to the communication services. I believe one is currently
advertised.
>> I was surprised to find that most of the more common DOS commands I
>> use to use also work in the Linux terminal window.
>
>Really? Please share. As there was like five basic DOS commands that
>were built into Command.com. I'll probably get this partially wrong, but
>like DIR, COPY, REN, DEL, and TYPE. So which ones are the same under
>Linux?
These DOS commands work on my 2G Surf:
CD
CLS
COPY
DATE
DEL
DIR
ECHO
EXIT
FC
FIND
HOSTNAME
MKDIR
MORE
PING
REN
SET
TIME
TYPE...
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>P.S. I do regret saying that "switchuser do" sounds pretty meaningless.
>After some more thought, it sounds more like baby talk to me. Although
>that doesn't impress me anymore.
>
You could just
ln -s `which sudo` /usr/bin/ITriedLinuxin1992andItSuckedsoWindowsisaBetterServerOSevenThoughServersRunFineonCPM
AJL
>"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>>AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:21:57 -0700:
>>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>Things I though was going well in the early 80's. Commodores booted in
>>like 5 seconds, my Epson PX-8 booted CP/M in like 2 seconds.
>
>My Palms still boot instantly.
After posting this I realized it was incorrect. The Palms don't boot
instantly. In fact my TX takes around 30 seconds to boot from reset. I
said that because they can be used instantly when turned on, but in
reality they are really sleeping in PC vernacular. So cancel that
observation... ;)
Richard Bonner
*** True, but it means more work for a webpage author to design two
versions of a website.
Floating webpages are not absolutley perfect for handheld Internet
devices, but do work sufficiently for handhelds, netbooks, laptops and
desktop screens.
Richard Bonner
> Richard Bonner typed on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:05:09 +0000 (UTC):
> > BillW50 (Bil...@aol.kom) wrote:
(Snip)
> >> Although it is hard to find updated applications
> >> or applications in general for KDE. For example, I haven't seen
> >> anything newer than Firefox 2.0 yet for it. Although I haven't
> >> checked in a few months.
> >> --
> >> Bill
> > *** I haven't fired up Knoppix in some time, so I was unaware that
> > newer applications were not available. I recommended it because it
> > seems easy for Windows users to catch on to it.
> Thanks Richard! Although got any recommendations to a distro that
> everything actually works? The part of it being easy for Windows users
> isn't important to me since I used many different kinds of systems
> anyway.
> --
> Bill
*** I have had no problems with the Knoppix version I run sometimes on
my laptop. It recognises all the hardware save for the Windows-only
soundcard. This means nothing to me since I don't use sound for any of my
laptop applications anyway.
However, I have not used Knoppix in some time because the DR-DOS on
there handles everything I need just fine. I mainly got away from Knoppix
because point & click is so useless for me and I have not taken the time
to learn the Linux command line very much.
Richard Bonner
> I was surprised to find that most of the more common DOS commands I
> use to use also work in the Linux terminal window.
*** That is because DOS took a lot from Unix. Even some of the
less-common DOS commands are amazingly similar in Unix/Linux, including
switches.
Richard Bonner
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:19:41 +0000, Richard Bonner wrote:
> > BillW50 (Bil...@aol.kom) wrote:
> >> I was just playing a WMA file under Linux and opened up the Add/Remove
> >> utility and then the Music Manager player locked up. Killed the process
> >> and now it says that file is gone from my flash disk. Why people put up
> >> with Linux with the amateurish applications is beyond my comprehension.
> >
> >> --
> >> Bill
> >
> > *** It's not Linux - it's the amateurish applications. (-:
> would only be a consolation if one could use the operating system,
> or the kernel, without applications.
> but I understand you are being ironical.
*** I was. (-:
> I do think when a person is uncomfortable with an operating system and
> its apps, they have experiences like BillW50's though.
*** I tend to agree, although Bill has lots of operating
systems experience. Still, one has to bet used to how each operating
system "thinks". Once that light comes on, things are a lot easier.
> it would be nice if more Linux apps had 'spit and polish', if they
> _looked_ neater and more finished. for this reason I love k3b. it is
> easy enough to burn a dvd from the commandline but k3b is a pleasure
> to use.
> Felmon
*** For the typical user, I agree. For myself, I want maximum
performance without the eye candy.
Richard Bonner
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:05:09 +0000, Richard Bonner wrote:
> > *** I haven't fired up Knoppix in some time, so I was unaware that
> > newer applications were not available. I recommended it because it seems
> > easy for Windows users to catch on to it.
> can you correct a possible misunderstanding of mine? I was under the
> impression one shouldn't actually _install_ Knoppix, in other words,
> it is _essentially_ a _live_ distribution. is this wrong?
*** I am not the right person to ask. I have only ever used the live CD.
However, Linux users have said to me that there is an "Install" option,
but I have never looked for it.
> a year or so ago I actually installed it and when problem-shooting, a
> seemingly knowledgeable fellow insisted that was a bad idea. I soon
> decided he was right.
> maybe more recent stuff now permits installation?
*** Perhaps a knowledgeable Knoppix reader here can answer that...
> it is a great live distribution though!
> Felmon
*** I thought so.
Richard Bonner
> My Palms still boot instantly. Upcoming netbooks will have instant
> booting to the communication services. I believe one is currently
> advertised.
*** As as aside, a few years ago, a buddy of mine demonstrated a 486
laptop running some 1990's version of DOS and a WaveLan card. From power
switch to Google screen was 15 seconds!
AJL
>AJL (3...@fakeaddress.com) wrote:
>> Since the advent of the smartpphone most popular websites have a
>> 'mobile' version that is designed for a small phone screen but also
>> works very well on a modern wireless PDA as well. No scrolling
>> required...
>
>*** True, but it means more work for a webpage author to design two
>versions of a website.
They do it to attract those mucho-million small screen users. More
eyeballs means more ad bux. So don't shed too many tears for those
poor overworked authors... ;)
BillW50
felmon typed on Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:18:13 -0600:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:28:31 -0600, BillW50 wrote:
>
>> But most home users do. So is there a distro of Linux that fills this
>> need? Currently I have hundreds of DVDs I have recorded in 6 hours
>> format per disc. There are zillions of Windows programs out there
>> that can handle this task. Although I have been putting this task
>> off until I find the fastest and the most productive way to compress
>> these videos and store them on TBs of disk space.
>
> I am not sure this is a question of "which distro?" but of "which
> apps to use?" but I am not quite sure what you are trying to do
> either.
Some are trying hard to convince me that all Linux applications run on
all distros of Linux. I don't see it as that way, but many Linux
applications only run on some distros. So whom do you agree with?
> not that I can necessarily help but if you give a bit more detail or
> even just name the Windows application that does the job, perhaps I,
> or more likely, someone else, can set it up for you in Linux.
Oh I shouldn't need anybody to help set me up. I just need somebody with
experience with Linux to point me in the right direction along with some
application names.
> I am not that versed in Windows apps so I can't judge but I find Linux
> generally easier (yes, partly due to familiarity, I grant) to use for
> this sort of thing. usually requires a simple command and done -
> except for processing time.
I can see that since I have ran many other OS. And I know many of them
very well. Just there isn't one Linux version though, but hundreds of
them. Thus I find it very difficult and very unlike the rest of the OS I
have used and understand very well before.
> I am very curious what you are doing since I like playing with video
> stuff.
Well I record lots of TV programs on a DVR on DVD in 6 hour format. It
should be a simple job to take hundreds of these and convert them to a
much smaller format to save space. General to play later on computers
and netbooks. And to keep them for old time sake. And it is so much
easier to sort them on massive TB hard drives anyway. As they are only
sorted by date on DVDs right now. And some are recorded one right after
another, so they have to be trimmed per program.
Sounds easy to do under Windows. Two problems though. Most programs
doesn't like this 6 hour low quality DVD format. And two wrong things
happen. Usually the height is stretched 2.5 times higher with this 6
hour format. Or it looks like the horizontal sync (in old TV talk) is
out of sync. So I only found a couple of Windows programs that actually
gets this right. There was others that were okay too, except they were
much slower at converting. When you have hundreds you want to convert,
you don't want a slow one.
People like wharf rat, wants others and myself to believe Linux can do
these things too. And I am sure there are a few programs out there for
Linux that can. But it is my belief based on the quality of Linux and
the applications that I have ran a crossed, that Linux applications will
not be any better than the 95% of Windows applications that I already
rejected.
> again, I hasten to repeat, I don't know if I can help directly. but I
> also repeat, this seems a matter of finding the right programs, not
> the right operating system.
Well yes, Felmon. There are other tasks that I do like stream recording,
PDA sync, glucose meter interfacing, a Windows only glucose database
application, KW-TVUSB506RF-PRO tuner, etc. Now wharf rat wants others
and myself to believe that Linux cannot only do this all, but better.
Personally when I run Linux, I don't see this at all. But I rather see
Linux as a barebones OS and your choices are very limited. But for some
people, this is all they need. But for 90% or more, we need far more
than what Linux can provide for us.
BillW50
> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:21:57 -0700:
>>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>>> I often use Kommander on my 2G Surf, but that probably wouldn't
>>> impress you much either.
>> Well if you like it and you being a respected member of this community,
>> it is worth checking out. <grin>
>
> On my 2G Surf netbook Kommander was already installed, just hidden.
> Asus apparently thought that Firefox was the better choice for the
> general non-Linux public. Try typing "Kommander" in the terminal
> window to see if your Eee already has it. If so it's easy to add to
> the IWM Start menu.
Okay 20 seconds to boot up Xandros. Had a long wait for the wireless to
connect though.
/home/user> kommander
bash: kommander: command not found
Nope! I guess it isn't there. <sigh>
So what is this IWM Start Menu? Advanced mode? The KDE desktop?
>> Opera itself is near perfect, but it falls short when it
>> comes to Firefox and/or IE only scripts. It has to be something, doesn't
>> it?
>
> Depends on what you do. I like to read newspapers and news sites which
> is mostly text and photos. So I actually like the Firefox 2 that came
> on the Surf. I use the Noscript add-on which removes the moving ads
> and speeds up the page loading. But yes on my Windows machines I have
> them all, Opera, Chrome, Safari ect and IE of course.
Good deal!
>>> http://digg.com/programming/How_to_run_IE6_on_Linux_(wine_is_getting_pretty_impressive)
>> Come on really? Did you try it?
>
> No I have no need of IE6. Question is did you try it? You were the one
> who wanted IE6 on Linux. Nothing ventured nothing gained...
No I always hear complains about it and it sounds nice for a limited
amount of Windows applications. But if you are running it on your Surf,
than it is worth checking out.
>> I have been following Wine years ago and
>> they made a name for themselves by getting MS Office to run. Do you
>> really believe they really have moved on much farther?
>
> Only way to find out is try it. On my Surf I have Sea Monkey and this
> Agent newsreader working using wine.
Oh good deal. You have Wine running on your Surf?
>> Things I though was going well in the early 80's. Commodores booted in
>> like 5 seconds, my Epson PX-8 booted CP/M in like 2 seconds.
>
> My Palms still boot instantly. Upcoming netbooks will have instant
> booting to the communication services. I believe one is currently
> advertised.
Someday all machines will be like this. <grin>
Oh okay. Well lots of things are far different too.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
BillW50
That is real cute to send to another Linux user, not.
AJL
>/home/user> kommander
>bash: kommander: command not found
>
>Nope! I guess it isn't there. <sigh>
Sorry my bad. Try typing "konqueror" not kommander. Those damn KDE app
names always screw with my brain. I mean konqueror and kommander kinda
sound the same don't they... :(
>So what is this IWM Start Menu?
Ice Window Manager gives you a green (MS Windows like) 'Start' icon in
the lower left corner . And the menu unfolds exactly the same with
submenus. To add menu text and icons you edit a menu file in the
hidden folder .icewm using a text editor.
>Advanced mode?
It's in Easy Mode. Here are the directions:
http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:icewmstartmenu#enabling_the_icewm_start_menu_in_easy_mode
>You have Wine running on your Surf?
Yes. And much of the .exe stuff I try crashes as you surmised. But
then some doesn't. And as I said before you just have to try it and
see...
http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:wine?s[]=wine
>Someday all machines will be like this [instant on]. <grin>
My Atari 800XL was instant on and that was nice. Course waiting
several minutes for the cassette tape to load a single program kind of
spoiled it a bit... ;)
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>People like wharf rat, wants others and myself to believe Linux can do
>these things too. And I am sure there are a few programs out there for
Oh, great Ghu...
Look, what format are your existing files in? What format
do you want them to be in? Let me know and if I'll see if I can find
a converter.
>application, KW-TVUSB506RF-PRO tuner, etc. Now wharf rat wants others
>and myself to believe that Linux cannot only do this all, but better.
Oh, great Ghu...
Will you please stop trolling? If you're really interested
in seeing if you can run these devices on Linux send me some mail and
I'll see if I can help. I don't think this is at all on topic for
this group.
But please stop trolling. It's undignified, to say the least.
BillW50
the wharf rat typed on Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:45:10 +0000 (UTC):
> In article <hgp9vm$qgq$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>> People like wharf rat, wants others and myself to believe Linux can
>> do these things too. And I am sure there are a few programs out
>> there for
>
> Oh, great Ghu...
>
> Look, what format are your existing files in? What format
> do you want them to be in? Let me know and if I'll see if I can find
> a converter.
I've talked about this many times. The *big* job I want to do is to
convert hundreds of on TV recorded DVDs in 6 hour (SLP) format to WMA or
FLV format. I also need the ability to trim, since a lot of shows are on
the same disc.
>> application, KW-TVUSB506RF-PRO tuner, etc. Now wharf rat wants others
>> and myself to believe that Linux cannot only do this all, but better.
>
> Oh, great Ghu...
>
> Will you please stop trolling? If you're really interested
> in seeing if you can run these devices on Linux send me some mail and
> I'll see if I can help. I don't think this is at all on topic for
> this group.
>
> But please stop trolling. It's undignified, to say the least.
Trolling? You have the wrong guy and you trying to pull this off in the
wrong newsgroup. As people know me too well to be fooled into that one.
And speaking about trolling, a quick Google search shows you have been a
professional troll for over a decade now. And an expertise troll in
hundreds of newsgroups. And when you got into Linux, you started to
target Windows users.
And back in December 19, 1998 you stated: "I'm the wharf rat because
everyone said I'd come to no good... ". I guess you showed them, eh?
And for the rest of you, I Googled Ghu and in Klingon, it means baby.
the wharf rat
BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>I've talked about this many times. The *big* job I want to do is to
>convert hundreds of on TV recorded DVDs in 6 hour (SLP) format to WMA or
SLP doesn't describe a file format, though, does it? It's
a tape speed, I think. Isn't that kind of "standard" video format MPEG?
MPEG to WMA is pretty easy. Mplayer will do it, for instance. Open source
video editing tools don't have the sophistication of commercial stuff but you
might look at http://cvs.cinelerra.org/ or http://www.openmovieeditor.org/.
>Trolling?
Yes, trolling. Posting crap just to invoke an emotional response.
>And speaking about trolling, a quick Google search shows you have been a
>professional troll for over a decade now.
Me, a troll? Bite your tongue! Anyway, it's more like...three
decades now...
>And back in December 19, 1998 you stated
Lol. Hey, if you like ancient history google hoxna!lou
>I Googled Ghu and in Klingon, it means baby.
Don't make fun of my religion or I'll report you to the government.
BillW50
the wharf rat typed on Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:00:43 +0000 (UTC):
> In article <hgt2e2$i3q$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> BillW50 <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>> I've talked about this many times. The *big* job I want to do is to
>> convert hundreds of on TV recorded DVDs in 6 hour (SLP) format to
>> WMA or
>
> SLP doesn't describe a file format, though, does it? It's
> a tape speed, I think. Isn't that kind of "standard" video format
> MPEG? MPEG to WMA is pretty easy. Mplayer will do it, for instance.
> Open source video editing tools don't have the sophistication of
> commercial stuff but you might look at http://cvs.cinelerra.org/ or
> http://www.openmovieeditor.org/.
Okay thanks, I will check it out. Sometimes they are also known on the
Windows side anyway as DVD rippers. Yesterday www.giveawayoftheday.com
had another one. The quality was superb! But it lacked the trim feature.
So it was all or just 10 seconds worth to test the results. I didn't
test it for speed, as I only used the 10 second test feature. But it
didn't look like it was one of the faster ones out there anyway.
And as for the SLP for DVD, this is what Magnavox DVD recorders and a
number of others calls 6 hour format anyway. Most retail DVD movies are
in the 2 hour format. Magnavox supports 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 hour formats.
And the terms HQ, SP, EP, and SLP used by the DVD industry refer to the
bitrate of the video.
And yes, DVD video is just MPEG2 format. Which most things can deal
with. Although the audio part on DVDs, are not usually in MPEG2 format.
Which messes up a lot of converters and most are in Dolby Digital Audio
(AC3) format. So the converter you use must also understand and deal
with this format as well.
>> Trolling?
>
> Yes, trolling. Posting crap just to invoke an emotional response.
No, that so called crap was the crap I run under Windows XP that I can't
replace and do the same under Linux. And I see this as a major problem
when asked to use something else. But it isn't just Linux, but other
versions of Windows doesn't support them all either. And 5% of what I
do, can't be done under Vista/Windows 7 for example. Windows XP is just
the most widely supported OS to date. And I don't see this changing
anytime soon.
felmon
> felmon (ne...@nowhere.INVALID) wrote:
>[...]
>> it would be nice if more Linux apps had 'spit and polish', if they
>> _looked_ neater and more finished. for this reason I love k3b. it is
>> easy enough to burn a dvd from the commandline but k3b is a pleasure to
>> use.
>
>> Felmon
>
> *** For the typical user, I agree. For myself, I want maximum
> performance without the eye candy.
I confess I can't always recall the syntax.
Felmon
felmon
> In news:xeCdnYbkOuAoUrDW...@giganews.com, felmon typed on
> Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:18:13 -0600:
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:28:31 -0600, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>>> But most home users do. So is there a distro of Linux that fills this
>>> need? Currently I have hundreds of DVDs I have recorded in 6 hours
>>> format per disc. There are zillions of Windows programs out there that
>>> can handle this task. Although I have been putting this task off until
>>> I find the fastest and the most productive way to compress these
>>> videos and store them on TBs of disk space.
>>
>> I am not sure this is a question of "which distro?" but of "which apps
>> to use?" but I am not quite sure what you are trying to do either.
>
> Some are trying hard to convince me that all Linux applications run on
> all distros of Linux. I don't see it as that way, but many Linux
> applications only run on some distros. So whom do you agree with?
sorry for the delay - busy week and I overlooked your reply.
I wasn't speaking to this issue about all apps running on all
distributions but - leaving aside that 'all' is a big word - I tend to
side with those who say 'all' apps run on 'all' _current_ distributions
but what do I know? I think there can be problems if you use different
'shells'.
you evidently have found some that don't run everywhere though. you have
probably mentioned one already but do you mind mentioning it again?
>> not that I can necessarily help but if you give a bit more detail or
>> even just name the Windows application that does the job, perhaps I, or
>> more likely, someone else, can set it up for you in Linux.
>
> Oh I shouldn't need anybody to help set me up. I just need somebody with
> experience with Linux to point me in the right direction along with some
> application names.
>
>> I am not that versed in Windows apps so I can't judge but I find Linux
>> generally easier (yes, partly due to familiarity, I grant) to use for
>> this sort of thing. usually requires a simple command and done - except
>> for processing time.
>
> I can see that since I have ran many other OS. And I know many of them
> very well. Just there isn't one Linux version though, but hundreds of
> them. Thus I find it very difficult and very unlike the rest of the OS I
> have used and understand very well before.
I myself don't care about a hundred variations on a theme. I use a couple
which work well enough. if something doesn't work, I wouldn't think to
change distributions to fix it.
(I would if it were a hardware issue since some distributions seem to do
a better job with it than others.)
I wholly disagree with the fellow in another threadlet who implied one
has to try a hundred versions in order to make a judgment about whether
Linux suits one. if I couldn't get Linux working to my satisfaction after
three or so distinct distributions, that would be it, at least until I
became curious again about its development.
and if I had all the problems you have with Linux, I certainly would stow
it away. I just have never experienced such things as the registry being
wiped out because I deleted a file and so on.
not sure I would conclude that all Linux is bad but I might. I don't like
working in the Mac either and would probably trash some stuff. many use
it with joy. so I conclude "it's not for me (now)."
>> I am very curious what you are doing since I like playing with video
>> stuff.
>
> Well I record lots of TV programs on a DVR on DVD in 6 hour format. It
> should be a simple job to take hundreds of these and convert them to a
> much smaller format to save space. General to play later on computers
> and netbooks. And to keep them for old time sake. And it is so much
> easier to sort them on massive TB hard drives anyway. As they are only
> sorted by date on DVDs right now. And some are recorded one right after
> another, so they have to be trimmed per program.
>
> Sounds easy to do under Windows. Two problems though. Most programs
> doesn't like this 6 hour low quality DVD format. And two wrong things
> happen. Usually the height is stretched 2.5 times higher with this 6
> hour format. Or it looks like the horizontal sync (in old TV talk) is
> out of sync. So I only found a couple of Windows programs that actually
> gets this right. There was others that were okay too, except they were
> much slower at converting. When you have hundreds you want to convert,
> you don't want a slow one.
this seems the job of a relatively simple ffmpeg script run in a bash
shell. I would undertake if I had the time and I'd have to study up on
the parameters. I am certain you can do it, maybe easier than I. and
given that ffmpeg is available on Windows (mencoder too, I think), you
could just cook up a script 'at home'.
but you are right, I don't know of any single application off the shelf
which will do this in Linux. maybe one exists but I have never sought it.
> People like wharf rat, wants others and myself to believe Linux can do
> these things too. And I am sure there are a few programs out there for
> Linux that can. But it is my belief based on the quality of Linux and
> the applications that I have ran a crossed, that Linux applications will
> not be any better than the 95% of Windows applications that I already
> rejected.
>
>> again, I hasten to repeat, I don't know if I can help directly. but I
>> also repeat, this seems a matter of finding the right programs, not the
>> right operating system.
>
> Well yes, Felmon. There are other tasks that I do like stream recording,
> PDA sync, glucose meter interfacing, a Windows only glucose database
> application, KW-TVUSB506RF-PRO tuner, etc. Now wharf rat wants others
> and myself to believe that Linux cannot only do this all, but better.
> Personally when I run Linux, I don't see this at all. But I rather see
> Linux as a barebones OS and your choices are very limited. But for some
> people, this is all they need. But for 90% or more, we need far more
> than what Linux can provide for us.
I cannot speak for wharf rat but there are definitely apps which are
Windows only or which lack equivalents (perhaps in quality at least of
interface) in Linux. it doesn't follow that Linux is 'barebones' though,
that's not logical. and if wharf rat says 'Linux' can do this or that,
then he must be speaking loosely since it is _apps_ that do this or that;
Linux lacks apps in some domains, it has good ones in others, and not so
good ones in some.
that was where I came in: it is confusing how complaints about
applications are phrased as complaints about the operating system. for
many practical purposes that's alright but when it comes down to
specifics, that can cause confusion.
btw I do the same thing: record tv programs and sometimes rejigger them
though I mostly cut and edit and sometimes convert to flv or whatever for
certain purposes. for a while I was burning a tv program to a dvd for a
friend who can't receive it. I didn't hassle with aspect ratios though or
the other stuff you are contending with.
sorry for the longwinded post. got a bit carried away....
Felmon
felmon
> Most programs
> doesn't like this 6 hour low quality DVD format.
sorry for the quick follow-up. I don't know if ffmpeg (or mencoder) can
deal with the specific format you want.
Felmon
felmon
> Like the Linux/Unix command sudo for example! It doesn't even sound
> English.
pseudo.
I thought it was a pun.
Felmon
the wharf rat
felmon <ne...@nowhere.INVALID> wrote:
>
>if wharf rat says 'Linux' can do this or that,
>then he must be speaking loosely since it is _apps_ that do this or that;
Linux can run Windows in a Xen virtual machine.
Linux can provide massively parallel processing.
Linux can run a web application server.
Linux can provide network access control and routing services.
Linux can provide PAD services.
Linux can mount a filesystem read-only.
Linux does all that without any applications at all :-)
>Linux lacks apps in some domains, it has good ones in others, and not so
>good ones in some.
If Ghu, the great, had meant us to point and click we would have
been born with PS/2 ports instead of fingers.
felmon
> [...]
> Linux does all that without any applications at all
I sit corrected.
will note only many of these things allow apps to run.
>>Linux lacks apps in some domains, it has good ones in others, and not so
>>good ones in some.
>
> If Ghu, the great, had meant us to point and click we would have
> been born with PS/2 ports instead of fingers.
maybe.
(not all apps involve point and click though.)
do you think I was right in suggesting ffmpeg and related stuff?
Felmon
felmon
> These DOS commands work on my 2G Surf:
>
> CD
> CLS
> COPY
> DATE
> DEL
> DIR
> ECHO
> EXIT
> FC
> FIND
> HOSTNAME
> MKDIR
> MORE
> PING
> REN
> SET
> TIME
> TYPE...
does your setup have some kind of 'alias' file for some of these? only
some of these commands seem native to bash. for instance 'copy', 'cls',
'del', 'ren' and a couple more do nothing in Debian 5.x or OpenSUSE 10.0,
using bash.
Felmon
AJL
>On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:50:17 -0700, AJL wrote:
>
>> These DOS commands work on my 2G Surf:
>>
>> CD
>> CLS
>> COPY
>> DATE
>> DEL
>> DIR
>> ECHO
>> EXIT
>> FC
>> FIND
>> HOSTNAME
>> MKDIR
>> MORE
>> PING
>> REN
>> SET
>> TIME
>> TYPE...
>
>does your setup have some kind of 'alias' file for some of these?
It is an Asus version of Xandros that came in my Eee PC 2G Surf
netbook.
>only some of these commands seem native to bash.
For the heck of it (too much time on my hands) I compared:
MSDOS at
http://www.computerhope.com/msdos.htm#02
to
Bash at
http://ss64.com/bash/
And found an even longer list of common commands so apparently my
little box isn't that unusual...:
break
cd
date
dir
echo
enable
exit
expand
fdisk
find
for
format
ftp
help
hostname
if
mkdir
more
netstst
nslookup
ping
popd
pushd
rename
rmdir
set
shift
shutdown
sort
time
type
the wharf rat
felmon <ne...@nowhere.INVALID> wrote:
>
>do you think I was right in suggesting ffmpeg and related stuff?
>
Ha ha :-)
Richard Bonner
> >AJL (3...@fakeaddress.com) wrote:
> >> Since the advent of the smartphone most popular websites have a
> >> 'mobile' version that is designed for a small phone screen but also
> >> works very well on a modern wireless PDA as well. No scrolling
> >> required...
> >
> >*** True, but it means more work for a webpage author to design two
> >versions of a website.
> They do it to attract those mucho-million small screen users. More
> eyeballs means more ad bux. So don't shed too many tears for those
> poor overworked authors... ;)
*** No tears shed, but floating pages should serve the purpose for most
devices. I have most recently checked mine on a Nintendo and an iPod Touch.
Richard Bonner
> Some are trying hard to convince me that all Linux applications run on
> all distros of Linux. I don't see it as that way, but many Linux
> applications only run on some distros. So whom do you agree with?
> --
> Bill
*** As I understand it, it depends on the basis of the distro. Many
seem to be Debian based, so I would assume most, if not all, Debian
software would run on those Linux versions.
Richard Bonner
(Re: wharf rat)
> ...speaking about trolling, a quick Google search shows you have been a
> professional troll for over a decade now. And an expertised troll in
> target Windows users.
> Bill
*** Haven't Windows users been targets for over a decade now? (-:
(Sorry, Bill, but I just *had* to post that.)
Richard Bonner
> Felmon
*** Nor can I, Felmon, so I wrote
shortcuts/aliases/scripts/macros/batch-files for *everything*. (-:
Richard Bonner
> AJL typed on Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:21:57 -0700:
> > commands I use to use also work in the Linux terminal window.
> Really? Please share. As there were like five basic DOS commands that
> were built into Command.com. I'll probably get this partially wrong, but
> like DIR, COPY, REN, DEL, and TYPE.
(Snip)
> --
> Bill
*** There were many more than that built into even early versions of
DOS. However, if one goes back to DOS 1.0, the internal commands were:
COPY
DIR
ERASE
REM
RENAME
TYPE
So if you don't consider the modified names as happened later on, you
were only off by one, Bill - and that was an omission rather than an
error.
felmon
> felmon (ne...@nowhere.INVALID) wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:22:29 +0000, Richard Bonner wrote:
>
>> > felmon (ne...@nowhere.INVALID) wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >> it would be nice if more Linux apps had 'spit and polish', if they
>> >> _looked_ neater and more finished. for this reason I love k3b. it is
>> >> easy enough to burn a dvd from the commandline but k3b is a pleasure
>> >> to use.
>> >
>> >> Felmon
>> >
>> > *** For the typical user, I agree. For myself, I want maximum
>> > performance without the eye candy.
>
>> I confess I can't always recall the syntax.
>
>> Felmon
>
> *** Nor can I, Felmon, so I wrote
> shortcuts/aliases/scripts/macros/batch-files for *everything*. (-:
good job!
I tend to keep a little folder with 'recipes' in it.
of course, google is a huge notebook!
best of the season to you and have a great decade!
Felmon