TOSHIBA A45-S120 - unable to change boot order to restore from DVD recovery medium
Jeff
turned it on for several weeks. When I tried last week, after the WinXP
splash screen came up, the progress bar completed one pass and then the
video froze and showed a ghosted image of the WinXP logo off to the right of
the real one and the two images were displayed in alternating vertical
stripes, almost as thought you were looking through vertical blinds. At that
point, there was no further boot progress.
Pressing Esc got me into the BIOS page, so it doesn't appear that there was
a hardware video problem. The only options that I could change in the BIOS
were the time and password (which is not set). With the recovery DVD in the
drive, I couldn't get the system to boot to the CD/DVD drive no matter what
I did. I tried all the suggestions I found of F12, F2, etc., and nothing
highlighted any of the row of icons across the bottom of the Toshiba splash
screen. When I booted, unless I pressed Esc, the system recognized the
failed Windows boot and went into the text screen giving me all the safe
mode start options.
Next, I was able to borrow an A45-S151 with the same CD-RW/DVD drive. I was
able to boot the S151 from a CD and also read data from the CD once it was
booted. While booting this unit via the F12 key, I noticed that all the
options were available for me to change in the BIOS setup - not just time
and password.
I then tried this known good CD drive in my S120 - it wouldn't boot and the
system went immediately to the hard drive and tried to start in safe mode.
In setup, I only had access to time and password. I then tried the suspect
drive in the known good S151 - I was able to boot from CD, read data and, in
setup, I had access to all options.
So, after ruling out a dead CD/DVD drive, I went one step further and
reformatted the hard drive in the S120 system to see if the inability to
attempt booting from it would give me an option of changing the boot order.
Now, the only change I get upon booting is an 'invalid system disk' error
message - I still can't change the boot order.
I'm back to a non-booting S120 that won't allow me to change the boot
device - the only real progress I've made is that WinXP is no longer trying
to boot into safe mode.
Can anyone tell if this stuff is symptomatic of a dying system or if there
is something I can do to resurrect it and force the DVD restore somehow?
Refurbishing desktops is a hobby of mine but I haven't had much experience
with troubleshooting and repairing laptop issues, so thanks in advance for
any pointers. I'm out of ideas and would greatly appreciate any tips or
expertise.
Barry Watzman
You may have a "BIOS Password" set that makes it impossible to get into
the "real" BIOS. [Note, a bug in some BIOS versions of some Toshiba
laptops is that they establish passwords "all by themselves", and the
nature of the bug is such that once this happens .... you have to return
the laptop to Toshiba (that's the official line; unofficially, there are
"secret" ways to clear it). You may also just have an old BIOS version.
I'd try updating the BIOS (you probably will need a USB floppy drive
to do that).
Also, this model is prone to CPU overheating due to dust, hair and dirt
clogging and completely (COMPLETELY) obstructing the CPU fan and
heatsink (in fact, this model has TWO fans, also). Actually ALL modern
laptops have a need for periodic cleaning, but this model is worse than
most (although it's only "slightly" exceptional, and only by degrees).
On this model, significant disassembly is required to resolve this, e.g.
to really clean the inside of the unit, in particular the heat sink and
fan (fan(S), in this case). An overheated CPU will usually lock the
system up completely but may just make it incredibly flakey.
So, if it were mine, the two things on my agenda (in this order) would
be to disassemble the system to clean the cooling system, and then
update the bios (if the system is flaky, do NOT update the bios until
the "flakeyness" is resolved; a lockup or blue screen during a bios
update can "brick" the unit).
Jeff
> the "real" BIOS. [Note, a bug in some BIOS versions of some Toshiba
> laptops is that they establish passwords "all by themselves", and the
> nature of the bug is such that once this happens .... you have to return
> the laptop to Toshiba (that's the official line; unofficially, there are
> "secret" ways to clear it). You may also just have an old BIOS version.
> I'd try updating the BIOS (you probably will need a USB floppy drive
> to do that).
>
> Also, this model is prone to CPU overheating due to dust, hair and dirt
> clogging and completely (COMPLETELY) obstructing the CPU fan and
> heatsink (in fact, this model has TWO fans, also). Actually ALL modern
> laptops have a need for periodic cleaning, but this model is worse than
> most (although it's only "slightly" exceptional, and only by degrees).
> On this model, significant disassembly is required to resolve this, e.g.
> to really clean the inside of the unit, in particular the heat sink and
> fan (fan(S), in this case). An overheated CPU will usually lock the
> system up completely but may just make it incredibly flakey.
>
> So, if it were mine, the two things on my agenda (in this order) would
> be to disassemble the system to clean the cooling system, and then
> update the bios (if the system is flaky, do NOT update the bios until
> the "flakeyness" is resolved; a lockup or blue screen during a bios
> update can "brick" the unit).
Thanks for the reply. Interestingly enough, when I was grasping at straws,
trying to find anything I could reseat, I took off the panels at the bottom
rear that gave me access to the CPU heatsink. The fins on the deck-of-cards
sized heatsink had *zero* dust accumulated. You mentioned a second fan -
would the cleanliness of this heatsink cause you to move on to attempt the
BIOS update first? Or...
In that vein, I do have a Toshiba USB floppy drive that I got after getting
the laptop but I've not used it. Since I had no success changing the boot
order or booting from CD with known good media and drive, I guess I didn't
bother trying the next step of trying a boot floppy. I can give that a
whirl and post back.
Re: the 'secret' BIOS clearing: is that something I can do with
instructions, or is that somethig I'll need to send the machine to someone
for?
John Doue
snip
>
> Re: the 'secret' BIOS clearing: is that something I can do with
> instructions, or is that somethig I'll need to send the machine to someone
> for?
>
snip
Very nice way to ask!
John Doue
Barry Watzman
web search would likely turn that information up.
Jeff
getting
> the laptop but I've not used it. Since I had no success changing the boot
> order or booting from CD with known good media and drive, I guess I didn't
> bother trying the next step of trying a boot floppy. I can give that a
> whirl and post back.
Thanks for all the ideas so far. I tried booting to floppy with the same
result. The floppy spins and lights up but the system only tried booting
from the hard drive, I can't get to F12 to select an alternate boot device
and am still limited in BIOS to time and password changes.
> I do not know how to clear passwords on this particular model. But a
> web search would likely turn that information up.
Would anyone have any idea what to search for to let me find instructions on
the secret method of clearing a password on a machine that potentially set
one on its own??
Barry Watzman
behavior is not normal for this model. Another possibility is a BIOS
supervisor (but NOT "user") password. In fact that is what seems most
likely.
Jeff
Thanks for the continued help Barry. I could be wrong, but I'm 95% sure
that this unit booted fine several months ago. I bought it used,
specifically to get the restore software that came with it so I could
refurbish a friend's A45-S151 (the one I borrowed) and then resell this one
after refurbishing it too. I'm almost positive that I turned it on when I
got it just to see what was present. I do have a couple of other laptops in
the same process, so I may have swapped this in my mind with another unit.
Any ideas on how to clear any possible passwords and/or somehow get to where
I can reflash the BIOS would be greatly appreciated.
Barry Watzman
how to clear it on that model. On some older Toshiba models with a
parallel port, there was a "dongle" that you plugged into the parallel
port that would kill the password (you can find instructions online for
making it, it requires a DB-25 plug and soldering). Not sure if that
model still had a parallel port or not, or if that method worked.
You may be able to find out if there is a password by downloading (from
the Toshiba web site) HWSETUP, a program that runs under Windows (it's
basically a BIOS setup program that runs under Windows).
Another possibility, some Toshiba models can access the passwords
through a utility SVPW32.EXE located in C:\PROGRAM FILES\TOSHIBA\WINDOWS
UTILITIES\SVPWTOOL.
Note: I just checked a "secret" service manual that I have for this
model and it says to use the parallel port dongle that I referred to
above to remove lost passwords on this model.
Barry Watzman
Wat...@neo.rr.com
Jeff
> On some older Toshiba models with a parallel port, there was a
> "dongle" that you plugged into the parallel port that would kill the
> model and it says to use the parallel port dongle to remove lost
> passwords on this model.
Thanks Barry. I have now bought and received a parallel port dongle. Does
anyone know if there's anything special that needs to be done? Just plug it
in and start the machine? Am I looking for any kind of message or amount of
time before I reboot without the dongle unattached?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Barry Watzman
I have not used it in a while, but I think you just plug it in (with the
machine off), then turn on the machine, let it complete POST, turn it
off and remove the dongle. At least that's my recollection.
There is also a floppy diskette you can make, with a very special 1st
sector, that will disable the password on some (many, most) older
models. Of course, no unit has had a floppy since about 2003 (I have no
idea if that diskette will work with a USB drive on any later models).
Jeff
> I have not used it in a while, but I think you just plug it in (with the
> machine off), then turn on the machine, let it complete POST, turn it
> off and remove the dongle.
Well, since your "secret" service manual says to use the parallel port
dongle to remove lost passwords on this model, I think I'll try that first
and hope for the best. The machine is worthless as is, so there's not much
to lose...
BillW50
Barry Watzman typed on Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:26:31 -0500:
> .... Of course, no unit has had a floppy since about 2003 (I have
> no idea if that diskette will work with a USB drive on any later
> models).
I have researched this and I can't find any problems with USB floppies.
As long as the BIOS supports booting from an USB floppy drive that is.
Even BIOS flashing works. If anybody learns differently I would sure
love to hear about it.
--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2
Barry Watzman
special floppy disk was so unique, that I don't think you can draw any
conclusions about whether this is supported on non-floppy laptops models
from .... anything.
~misfit~
> The ability of some Toshiba laptops to bypass the BIOS password using
> a special floppy disk was so unique, that I don't think you can draw
> any conclusions about whether this is supported on non-floppy laptops
> models from .... anything.
I removed the BIOS password on a Tosh Sat A100 (no parallel port) recently
by lifting the keyboard (but leaving it attached), unseating the WAN card
underneath the keyboard thus exposing the two naked lands that are under
there on the mobo.
The trick is to short the lands ('jumper' them) while turning the machine
on. I used a screwdriver. As soon as you see the Toshiba splash screen you
can remove the short and power down. Next time you boot the password has
been removed.
I hope that this info doesn't get used by theives....
--
Shaun.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
Barry Watzman
remove the password. However, the locations vary by model and are
supposed to be "secret", but some of them leak.
The Toshiba A100/A105 series is an interesting situation, because that
"series" consisted of hundreds of models that really bore almost nothing
in common. They don't even all use the same power supply voltage.
~misfit~
> All laptops, as far as I know, have a set of pads that can be shorted
> to remove the password. However, the locations vary by model and are
> supposed to be "secret", but some of them leak.
>
> The Toshiba A100/A105 series is an interesting situation, because that
> "series" consisted of hundreds of models that really bore almost
> nothing in common. They don't even all use the same power supply
> voltage.
Yeah, I know. I did specify 'Sat' and 'A100' which was short for Satellite
A100. FYI the one I just did was a model PSAA9A. Some other models in the
series have the pads under the stuck-down black plastic mobo protecting film
under the right-hand side RAM slot....
I could keep going but, as you say it's supposed to be secret and those two
locations cover a lot of the laptops in the series...
"All laptops" have the pads? Now that I didn't know.
--
Shaun.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
> ~misfit~ wrote:
Barry Watzman
exceptions. But all retail/consumer laptops have some means to reset
the password, and often more than one. Fundamentally, the password is
stored in a flash memory chip, which is most easily dealt with directly,
e.g. erase the chip's contents.
~misfit~
>> "All laptops" have the pads? Now that I didn't know.
>
> Let me modify "all" to "substantially all". Absolutes always have
> exceptions. But all retail/consumer laptops have some means to reset
> the password, and often more than one. Fundamentally, the password is
> stored in a flash memory chip, which is most easily dealt with
> directly, e.g. erase the chip's contents.
You should get onto forums.thinkpads and let some of the folks there know
about this. There are a bunch of folks who have binned mobos due to being
locked out of them.
--
Cheers,
Jeff
Well, I have good news and confusing news to report...
The dongle worked as advertised. I booted with it installed, powered down
and removed it, then restarted the machine. I was able to change the boot
device and enter BIOS with the ability to change the boot order, etc.
I then ran the recovery process. The ghosted image restored and then, when
the machine restarted, I got the same problem that started it all... the
WinXP splash screen came up, the progress bar completed one pass and then
the video froze and showed a ghosted image of the WinXP logo off to the
right of the real one and the two images were displayed in alternating
vertical stripes, almost as thought you were looking through vertical
blinds. There were also 4 or 5 thin vertical stripes that were flashing as
though video was being displayed though them like it used to if you used an
older monitor with a new system that couldn't display things properly. At
that point, there was no further boot progress.
In order to do a bit more troubleshooting, I booted the system with a live
Linux CD - it booted and ran OK. I then tried installing Ubuntu. It
started and then the screen went wonky again, with pixellating lines all
over. I then repartitioned it, ran scandisk on the hard drive overnight (no
errors), and reran the recovery process. Same shadow image when the XP
splash screen appears - and it does this both during the ordinary booting
process as well as during an attempted safe mode boot.
As I was typing the above, I remembered one other thing I meant to try. I
reset the BIOS to default values and reran the recovery process - still a
messed up WinXP splash screen after the progress bar makes 2 or 3 passes.
If anyone has ideas, I'd be grateful for the help.
Barry Watzman
self-booting memory diagnostic (memtest+ or memtest86). See if that
runs ok. If the memory diagnostic does run ok ... this could be a bad
motherboard.