Battery in or out?
Bob Newman
external monitor & keyboard with only occasional use with the battery. The
,manual says to take the battery out of the unit while on AC power (unless
you're charging it of course). While I am not an expert this seems unusual
to me. Opinions please.
Thanks in advance... Bob
BillW50
Bob Newman typed on Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:44:44 -0500:
Nope, it is actually sound advice for virtually any laptop/netbook. As
the heat slowly kills the battery. Thus why subject the battery to these
conditions if it isn't necessary.
Some argue though if the power goes out or if the power plug gets
pulled, they lose everything if the battery is removed. This is true.
Although you can add an UPS to power it in case the power goes out.
Can't help if the cord gets unplugged though. And UPS are usually
cheaper than laptop batteries anyway. Plus you can power other things as
well. Like cordless phones too.
This is the first time I heard of a manufacture suggests this. Well good
for Toshiba. I think this is great.
Another thing to add, if you rarely use your machine, it is also wise to
remove the battery too. As some do have a small drain on the battery
when off. Plus some have a nasty habit of turning itself on by
themselves. And if the air vents are blocked, can overcook your
expensive machine and make it worthless.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 (quit Windows updates back in May 2009)
Bob Newman
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hh8474$qjq$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Thanks for your help Bill. One other question for you since you seem well
informed. Unfortunately I believe I know the answer to it. As I say, I use
the laptop with an external monitor and keyboard (with the lid closed and
out of the way). When I am through with it for the day I click hibernate to
shut it down for the night. Is there any way to turn the computer back on
without pulling it out, lifting the lid and hitting the power button?
Thanks... Bob
BillW50
Bob Newman typed on Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:32:14 -0500:
> Thanks for your help Bill. One other question for you since you seem
> well informed. Unfortunately I believe I know the answer to it. As
> I say, I use the laptop with an external monitor and keyboard (with
> the lid closed and out of the way). When I am through with it for
> the day I click hibernate to shut it down for the night. Is there
> any way to turn the computer back on without pulling it out, lifting
> the lid and hitting the power button?
> Thanks... Bob
Well the short answer is it depends. But first is my concern with what
you are doing. As some laptops runs hotter with the lid closed. I would
get one of those CPU temperature monitors and monitor the temps with the
lid open and closed. If it doesn't matter, then it is probably okay.
Now to your question. Many CPUs have different sleep modes. And turning
your computer off, doesn't necessary turn everything off. As it can wake
up under some conditions. And it has to be supported at the BIOS level
since Windows isn't running.
Since all BIOS are different, there is no way for me to tell you if you
can or can't. But you can look in your bios setup and see if you can
toggle such a feature on. With any luck, you can.
Barry Watzman
Are you sh*****g me?
The manual actually SAYS THAT?
I am shocked. Please wait while I pick up my jaw off the floor.
[pause]
[pause]
Not because the advice is wrong. THE ADVICE IS DEAD ON ACCURATE. But
because after 30 years, a laptop manufacturer is actually giving
customers the CORRECT advice to maximize the service life of the battery.
We've been telling people that for decades, but very few people do it.
Instead, people leave the battery in the laptop and, after 6 to 24
months, it's shot, and for no good reason.
Do note that the battery should be "exercised" and left PARTIALLY (40%
to 70%) charged every 60 to 120 days or so. Total inactivity will kill
them also. (many people just leave them 100% charged; the battery
makers all say that Lithium batteries store best at a "medium to
medium+" charge, however).
If the laptop is used in this mode, it's worth considering getting a
small (300VA is fine) UPS.
Barry Watzman
Barry Watzman
power save mode.
He may be better able to do what he wants by using "sleep" or "standby"
rather than "hibernate".
the wharf rat
it's true.
The reason is that even when on AC the battery undergoes charge/
discharge cycles which reduce its life.
lgree...@srt.com
> "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote in message
>
> news:hh8474$qjq$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Innews:X9MZm.4232$DR6....@newsfe19.iad,
Hi Bob...Just noticed your question about using hibernation mode when
shutting down...I used to do that, but was advised that it is best to
shut completely as it "flushes" the memory. With a complete shutdown
you start fresh when you power up. Now that is what I have been told
and that is what I do and it makes sense to me. Larry
BillW50
Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:31:26 -0500:
> He specifically says that he is "hibernating", which is a very
> specific power save mode.
>
> He may be better able to do what he wants by using "sleep" or
> "standby" rather than "hibernate".
Well there are people who throws their laptop in a backpack in
hibernation mode and they later learn that it turned on by itself and it
is very hot since the air vents were blocked.
There was also one promising company (I say that because they sound like
they know what they are doing) who advertises on eBay. And they claim do
*not* ship the laptop with the battery installed. As they receive lots
of laptops which has turned on by themselves and cooked themselves to
death. So it is indeed possible.
It all depends on what the BIOS offers for waking up. Many offer wake on
LAN, but I often don't see much else in there. Many desktops have wake
on power (never seen this on a laptop yet). Which is kind of nice. Since
all you have to do is to turn on a power strip and the computer turns on
and boots.
Besides the BIOS, the CPU also plays a part in this wake up. So I guess
it depends on both the BIOS and the CPU to get something like this to
work.
BillW50
news:a8cdc003-1b90-4a98...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com,
lgree...@srt.com typed on Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:30:30 -0800 (PST):
> Hi Bob...Just noticed your question about using hibernation mode when
> shutting down...I used to do that, but was advised that it is best to
> shut completely as it "flushes" the memory. With a complete shutdown
> you start fresh when you power up. Now that is what I have been told
> and that is what I do and it makes sense to me. Larry
Actually Larry, that is true of standby, but not hibernation. As
hibernation powers down the RAM and shuts the system down just like
power off does.
But in one way you are correct. As hibernation mode does reload
everything that was in RAM, so it doesn't flush it permanently. But it
doesn't need flushing anyway unless you use applications with memory
leaks. <grin>
Yeah if you want a quick RAM flush without rebooting. Logging off and
then back on again works well.
Bob Newman
would be to call Toshiba and ask them.
Bob
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hh8cjv$320$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ian D
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
Hibernation and Shutdown are identical, in that the computer
is powered off. However, the same wake event could start
the machine in either mode if the battery is in the machine.
It is the equivalent to a desktop with the +5v Stby on. As
you indicate, the best way to avoid an unexpected startup
is to pull the battery.
I have a five year old HP laptop. I have always kept the battery
out, except when running on battery, and also to maintain a
minimum charge level of about 40%. The battery was
replaced after 4 years due to a recall, but at that time it still
had about the same running time as when it was new. Also,
the laptop runs a lot cooler with the battery removed when
running on AC. I do have it on a UPS, so I don't worry
about power loss.
M.I.5�
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
> In news:a8cdc003-1b90-4a98...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com,
> lgree...@srt.com typed on Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:30:30 -0800 (PST):
>> Hi Bob...Just noticed your question about using hibernation mode when
>> shutting down...I used to do that, but was advised that it is best to
>> shut completely as it "flushes" the memory. With a complete shutdown
>> you start fresh when you power up. Now that is what I have been told
>> and that is what I do and it makes sense to me. Larry
>
> Actually Larry, that is true of standby, but not hibernation. As
> hibernation powers down the RAM and shuts the system down just like power
> off does.
>
Not true of hibernation either. Although the memory is powered down, its
contents are saved as a file on the hard drive (usually hiberfil.sys) and
written back to the memory as part of the start up process. If the memory
contained rubbish prior to hibernation, the rubbish is saved to the file and
rewritten to the hard drive on restart exactly as it was before.
M.I.5�
> Re: "The ,manual says to take the battery out of the unit while on AC
> power (unless you're charging it of course)."
>
> Are you sh*****g me?
>
> The manual actually SAYS THAT?
>
> I am shocked. Please wait while I pick up my jaw off the floor.
>
> [pause]
>
> [pause]
>
> Not because the advice is wrong. THE ADVICE IS DEAD ON ACCURATE. But
> because after 30 years, a laptop manufacturer is actually giving customers
> the CORRECT advice to maximize the service life of the battery.
>
> We've been telling people that for decades, but very few people do it.
> Instead, people leave the battery in the laptop and, after 6 to 24 months,
> it's shot, and for no good reason.
>
> Do note that the battery should be "exercised" and left PARTIALLY (40% to
> 70%) charged every 60 to 120 days or so.
There is no evidence that a storing a battery at 40% charge is of any
benefit. There are many estimates as to how frequently a battery should be
used, but in the aerospace industry, the working figure is that the battery
should be subject to a full charge/discharge (or 2 half charges/discharges
etc.) every 40-45 days fo maximum battery life.
Having said that, I have several examples that are now over 15 years old
that have had relatively light lives. All have nearly full original
capacity. But then I also have examples that have died within a year with
equally light use.
> Total inactivity will kill them also. (many people just leave them 100%
> charged; the battery makers all say that Lithium batteries store best at a
> "medium to medium+" charge, however).
>
Actually the battery makers make no such claim. In fact they are amazingly
silent on many issues over their batteries.
BillW50
M.I.5� typed on Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:07:33 -0000:
Yes of course. Although the point I was trying to make is that
hibernation mode requires no power. Which is handy if you lose power or
running off of battery power.
And if you are interested in flushing the memory. I have used logging
off and on to be far faster than rebooting. And it does a fine job of
flushing the RAM.
--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 2 of 3 - Windows XP SP3
M.I.5�
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
True.
> And if you are interested in flushing the memory. I have used logging off
> and on to be far faster than rebooting. And it does a fine job of flushing
> the RAM.
>
That only rewrites those parts of the memory that are required. The rest of
the memory retains whatever was in it. Windows systems don't always reboot
and function as intended, and although I have never proven that this is due
to residual material held in the memory, I am aware of other platforms where
this is most definitely the case.
>
>