Help wanted: IBM 5424 MFCU
Mike Ross
minor issues. The (apparently) last illuminated error caption keeping it from
getting online is 'NPRO'. Non Process Run Out. Basically, cards hung up in
machine. Cure is supposedly 'manually remove any cards blocking sensors, then
press the NPRO button twice to cycle the machine (much whizzing of belts) and
clear both card paths'.
Except there are no cards in the machine, and the NPRO button doesn't cycle the
mechanism; it remains obstinately dead. Any suggestions for causes for NPRO
errors? Dust on sensors?
Thanks!
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
wrote:
>I've been troubleshooting the 5424 attached to my System/3. Fixed a couple of
>minor issues. The (apparently) last illuminated error caption keeping it from
>getting online is 'NPRO'. Non Process Run Out. Basically, cards hung up in
>machine. Cure is supposedly 'manually remove any cards blocking sensors, then
>press the NPRO button twice to cycle the machine (much whizzing of belts) and
>clear both card paths'.
>
>Except there are no cards in the machine, and the NPRO button doesn't cycle the
>mechanism; it remains obstinately dead. Any suggestions for causes for NPRO
>errors? Dust on sensors?
>
My experience is limited to 1402s and (the 360 equivlant - 2514?), but
things I would check for:
Bad switch
Broken wire
Dust on sensors
Broken/bad sensors
I should think that the NPRO button should ALWAYS work, and finding
out why not would be a priority.
But, remember, I don't know that reader.
--
ArarghMail905 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html
To reply by email, remove the extra stuff from the reply address.
Joe Morris
>>I've been troubleshooting the 5424 attached to my System/3. Fixed a couple
>>of
>>minor issues. The (apparently) last illuminated error caption keeping it
>>from
>>getting online is 'NPRO'. Non Process Run Out. Basically, cards hung up in
>>machine. Cure is supposedly 'manually remove any cards blocking sensors,
>>then
>>press the NPRO button twice to cycle the machine (much whizzing of belts)
>>and
>>clear both card paths'.
>>Except there are no cards in the machine, and the NPRO button doesn't
>>cycle the
>>mechanism; it remains obstinately dead. Any suggestions for causes for
>>NPRO
>>errors? Dust on sensors?
> My experience is limited to 1402s and (the 360 equivlant - 2514?), but
> things I would check for:
> Bad switch
> Broken wire
> Dust on sensors
> Broken/bad sensors
The S/360 version of the 1402 was the 2540. Not identical, of course, but
the basic designs were the same.
I too have no experience with S/3 hardware, but if the design of the 5424 is
similar to that of the 2540 the NPRO function works only when the joggle
gate at the bottom of the card feed hopper is open and no cards are sitting
on the pick knives. The 2540 didn't have a separate NPRO button; the START
button did double duty based on the status of the joggle gate.
No, I have no idea if the 5424 *has* a joggle gate. Its function was to
ensure that the cards were all lined up as they approached the pick knives
at the bottom of the hopper, where the bottom card (and *only* the bottom
card) is fed through the throat into the card bed.
Joe Morris
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
<j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
><ArarghMai...@NOT.AT.Arargh.com> wrote:
> My experience is limited to 1402s and (the 360 equivlant - 2514?), but
<snip>
>The S/360 version of the 1402 was the 2540.
I knew that. :-) Now, why couldn't I remember it?
>Not identical, of course, but the basic designs were the same.
Close enough that you probably couldn't tell them apart except by
reading the model number. :-)
>
>I too have no experience with S/3 hardware, but if the design of the 5424 is
>similar to that of the 2540 the NPRO function works only when the joggle
>gate at the bottom of the card feed hopper is open and no cards are sitting
>on the pick knives. The 2540 didn't have a separate NPRO button; the START
>button did double duty based on the status of the joggle gate.
Forgot that.
>No, I have no idea if the 5424 *has* a joggle gate. Its function was to
>ensure that the cards were all lined up as they approached the pick knives
>at the bottom of the hopper, where the bottom card (and *only* the bottom
>card) is fed through the throat into the card bed.
Joe Morris
> "Joe Morris" <j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
>><ArarghMai...@NOT.AT.Arargh.com> wrote:
>> My experience is limited to 1402s and (the 360 equivlant - 2514?), but
>>The S/360 version of the 1402 was the 2540.
> I knew that. :-) Now, why couldn't I remember it?
Each of us has our own patented version of mental bitrot.
>>Not identical, of course, but the basic designs were the same.
> Close enough that you probably couldn't tell them apart except by
> reading the model number. :-)
Um...not quite that close. The 1402, for example, had a sliding cover over
the cardbed while the 2540 (and, for that matter, the nearly identical 1622)
hinged the entire cover at the back. I'm also vaguely recalling (with less
certainty) that the top of the 2540 between the reader and punch was
laminated, while the same area on the 1402 was crinkle-finisned metal.
Also, the operator controls were quite different. The 2540 used rectangular
jewels of the same dimensions for annunciators, lit buttons, and unlit
buttons, and all the controls were pushbuttons that moved orthoganally to
the vertical panel surface. Unless I've got another case of mental bitrot
the 1402 used flush illuminated legends for its annunciators, and at least
some of the controls (NPRO in particular) were designed so that the top of
the button was flush with the panel and the bottom stuck out; when you
pressed the button it rotated on a horizontal hinge at the top until its
surface was flush with the panel.
And I'm drawing a blank on whether the 1402 had a "last card" switch. On
the 2540 (and 2501) if the operator pressed the "last card" switch the
reader would automatically feed the last card through, stack it as directed,
and provide a signal (EOF) to the computer signaling that the last card had
been read. If the switch was *not* pressed, the card reader would stop and
go not-ready as soon as the last card had been fed halfway into the throat;
the idea was that if you weren't able to continually feed the read hopper
the program would not see a premature EOF. What I can't recall is if the
1402 had that switch, or if its function was an overload on the START
button: if the hopper ran dry and it really was the end of the input stream,
you pressed START and that signalled the reader to do its end-of-input
thing.
As you may have guessed, while I'm not exactly a total novice with 1401
systems neither was I ever a heavy programmer for them. We had a couple of
real experts that handled that part of our operations.
>>I too have no experience with S/3 hardware, but if the design of the 5424
>>is
>>similar to that of the 2540 the NPRO function works only when the joggle
>>gate at the bottom of the card feed hopper is open and no cards are
>>sitting
>>on the pick knives. The 2540 didn't have a separate NPRO button; the
>>START
>>button did double duty based on the status of the joggle gate.
> Forgot that.
First time I met a 2540 was at the Atlanta datacenter, where (thanks to a
singlarly bad screwup in the Jacksonville ed center) a couple of us were
given an opportunity to test some of our apps before the first S/360 was
installed in our shop. Our time was shoehorned between a couple of classes,
and (of course) I had my first card jam right at the end of our slot, while
the instructor of one of the Atlanta classes and his students were chomping
at the bit waiting for us to leave...and I'm frantically searching for the
NPRO button.
>
>>No, I have no idea if the 5424 *has* a joggle gate. Its function was to
>>ensure that the cards were all lined up as they approached the pick knives
>>at the bottom of the hopper, where the bottom card (and *only* the bottom
>>card) is fed through the throat into the card bed.
Joe Morris
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
<j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
><ArarghMai...@NOT.AT.Arargh.com> wrote:
>> "Joe Morris" <j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>><ArarghMai...@NOT.AT.Arargh.com> wrote:
>>>The S/360 version of the 1402 was the 2540.
>> I knew that. :-) Now, why couldn't I remember it?
>Each of us has our own patented version of mental bitrot.
>
>
>>>Not identical, of course, but the basic designs were the same.
>> Close enough that you probably couldn't tell them apart except by
>> reading the model number. :-)
>
>Um...not quite that close. The 1402, for example, had a sliding cover over
>the cardbed while the 2540 (and, for that matter, the nearly identical 1622)
>hinged the entire cover at the back. I'm also vaguely recalling (with less
>certainty) that the top of the 2540 between the reader and punch was
>laminated, while the same area on the 1402 was crinkle-finisned metal.
>
>Also, the operator controls were quite different. The 2540 used rectangular
>jewels of the same dimensions for annunciators, lit buttons, and unlit
>buttons, and all the controls were pushbuttons that moved orthoganally to
>the vertical panel surface. Unless I've got another case of mental bitrot
>the 1402 used flush illuminated legends for its annunciators, and at least
>some of the controls (NPRO in particular) were designed so that the top of
>the button was flush with the panel and the bottom stuck out; when you
>pressed the button it rotated on a horizontal hinge at the top until its
>surface was flush with the panel.
Ok, I never looked THAT closely at either. About the only time I did
more than load or unload cards was when the (chip/chad) box light came
on, or clearing the odd read jam. Or the one time I tried punching
lace cards on a 1402 - quite loud and took a while to clear the jam.
(That 1401 system had the column binary feature.)
>And I'm drawing a blank on whether the 1402 had a "last card" switch. On
>the 2540 (and 2501) if the operator pressed the "last card" switch the
>reader would automatically feed the last card through, stack it as directed,
>and provide a signal (EOF) to the computer signaling that the last card had
>been read. If the switch was *not* pressed, the card reader would stop and
>go not-ready as soon as the last card had been fed halfway into the throat;
>the idea was that if you weren't able to continually feed the read hopper
>the program would not see a premature EOF. What I can't recall is if the
>1402 had that switch, or if its function was an overload on the START
>button: if the hopper ran dry and it really was the end of the input stream,
>you pressed START and that signalled the reader to do its end-of-input
>thing.
Neither, it was Sense Switch A over on the 1401 processor. Don't
exactly remember the details on it's use, though.
Don't know about a 1440 or 1460.
<snip>
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> I've been troubleshooting the 5424 attached to my System/3.
I don't know what System/3 stuff is out there, but did you check
bitsavers for a manual?
As an aside, one of the peripherals (I believe a different model than
this one ) was an offline device that was a card sorter. It was IBM's
last tab card machine.
After System/360 hit the streets IBM realized that even with the low-
end models it was still too expensive for some small tab shops to
convert, so they developed the System/3 to get that low end of the
market.
All that evolved to become the AS/400 line, but I'm not sure what it's
called today (i series?), with a 'souped-up' RPG. Anyone know how the
that series is selling today?
Al Kossow
> On May 30, 4:49 pm, Mike Ross <m...@corestore.org> wrote:
>> I've been troubleshooting the 5424 attached to my System/3.
>
> I don't know what System/3 stuff is out there, but did you check
> bitsavers for a manual?
I have a few of 5424 manuals scanned, if Mike doesn't have them
already, though I suspect he does.
S131-0570-2_5424_parts
SY31-0254-1_5424_FEMDM_Feb71
SY31-0306-0_5424_theory
5424_ald
Also, the 5424 is a 96 column device..
CRPence
> <<SNIP>> they developed the System/3 to get that low
> end of the market.
>
> All that evolved to become the AS/400 line, but I'm
> not sure what it's called today (i series?), with a
> selling today?
>
AS/400 with OS/400, then [the eServer branding?] iSeries with
OS/400 & i5/OS, then System i with i5/OS, but now with converged
hardware IBM Power Systems it is more appropriately identified by or
referred to by its OS [and should have been long ago, at least since
the hardware supported multiple OS; i.e. i5/OS, Linux, & AIX] versus
by its hardware which now includes blades in IBM BladeCenter.
Power systems sales could be for any of the supported OS. I am
not aware of numbers published for the IBM i [for business] 6.1 as
an OS sale, but I believe there is a breakdown of revenue for
hardware sales. The OS [with hardware references; URLs still
reflect a /system/ convention, at least while there is still some
supported distinct hardware] has its main page at or from:
http://www.ibm.com/systems/i
Regards, Chuck
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
> AS/400 with OS/400, then [the eServer branding?] iSeries with OS/400
> & i5/OS, then System i with i5/OS, but now with converged hardware IBM
> Power Systems it is more appropriately identified by or referred to by
> its OS [and should have been long ago, at least since the hardware
> supported multiple OS; i.e. i5/OS, Linux, & AIX] versus by its
> hardware which now includes blades in IBM BladeCenter.
>
> Power systems sales could be for any of the supported OS. I am not
> aware of numbers published for the IBM i [for business] 6.1 as an OS
> sale, but I believe there is a breakdown of revenue for hardware
> sales. The OS [with hardware references; URLs still reflect a
> /system/ convention, at least while there is still some supported
> distinct hardware] has its main page at or from:
> http://www.ibm.com/systems/i
recent post mentioning press release for "modern day" as/400:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#16
above includes reference to
IBM goes live with Smart Cube appliance server; The modern day AS/400
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/20/ibm_smartcube_appliances/
from above:
After nearly two years of development and more than six months of a
beta spin in India - where there are some 35 million small and medium
businesses that are looking to computerize their operations - IBM has
finally brought its Smart Cube appliance servers and the related
application software Smart Market to the United States.
... snip ...
--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970
Peter Flass
> On May 30, 4:49 pm, Mike Ross <m...@corestore.org> wrote:
>> I've been troubleshooting the 5424 attached to my System/3.
>
> I don't know what System/3 stuff is out there, but did you check
> bitsavers for a manual?
Some, as of today.
>
>
> As an aside, one of the peripherals (I believe a different model than
> this one ) was an offline device that was a card sorter. It was IBM's
> last tab card machine.
>
> After System/360 hit the streets IBM realized that even with the low-
> end models it was still too expensive for some small tab shops to
> convert, so they developed the System/3 to get that low end of the
> market.
>
> All that evolved to become the AS/400 line, but I'm not sure what it's
> called today (i series?), with a 'souped-up' RPG. Anyone know how the
> that series is selling today?
"iSeries", I think.
>
goo...@miamicomputer.com
our sys/3 a 1442 which is the full size 80 column cards. It was used
on other models and was very dependable.
for a picture see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1442
Of course that gives you no help with your problem. People told me
that MFCU didn't stand for Multi Function Card Unit, but something
else as it could be real fun at times.
chris
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
wrote:
One I remember is "Mother Fletchers Card Mangler". :-)
--
ArarghMail906 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
Mensanator
> On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:05:44 -0700 (PDT), goo...@miamicomputer.com
> wrote:
>
> >I guess I am no help, as I only ran the 96 col read once, we had on
> >our sys/3 a 1442 which is the full size 80 column cards. It was used
> >on other models and was very dependable.
>
> >for a picture see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1442
>
> >Of course that gives you no help with your problem. People told me
> >that MFCU didn't stand for Multi Function Card Unit, but something
> >else as it could be real fun at times.
>
> One I remember is "Mother Fletchers Card Mangler". �:-)
That would be MFCM, not MFCU. Someone got a hanging chad somewhere?
ArarghMai...@not.at.arargh.com
<mensa...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jun 6, 3:27?pm, ArarghMail906NOS...@NOT.AT.Arargh.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:05:44 -0700 (PDT), goo...@miamicomputer.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I guess I am no help, as I only ran the 96 col read once, we had on
>> >our sys/3 a 1442 which is the full size 80 column cards. It was used
>> >on other models and was very dependable.
>>
>> >for a picture see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1442
>>
>> >Of course that gives you no help with your problem. People told me
>> >that MFCU didn't stand for Multi Function Card Unit, but something
>> >else as it could be real fun at times.
>>
>> One I remember is "Mother Fletchers Card Mangler". ?:-)
>
>That would be MFCM, not MFCU. Someone got a hanging chad somewhere?
Ahh. I was thinking SYS/360, not SYS/3
Les Tonio
.
Did u fix this problem (challenge- as IBM would say)???
5424 sensors were optic methinks. Dust, hair, card scraps etc would easily be detected.
Light was provided by aircraft lamps (30 volt)???, 5424 used far lower voltage, providing dim light, powerful reliability.
What model S/3 have u?. RU using it, or is it museum piece.
I used model 15D at IBM North Sydney. Bullet proof box.
I have a simple RPGII program & OCL all on 96 col cards- there are two data cards (variables)- one contains message to be printed on output cards, second contains "punched hole pattern" on out put cards from MFCU2. I used it with green cards containing xmas tree pattern, merry xmas message printed thereon.
Alas, can't find a S/3!!!