Roland SCD-10, SCD-15 specs
Ferdinand Mataragnon
Also, from a mostly gaming standpoint, which is recommeded? SCD-10
or SCD-15? How big are the patches and what is their quality like?
How does the patch quality of either card compare to say, the
GUS's patches?
TIA.
Ferdinand
mata...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
Frederick Y Mah
>Hello. Could someone please post specs for the SCD-10 and SCD-15?
>Also, from a mostly gaming standpoint, which is recommeded? SCD-10
>or SCD-15? How big are the patches and what is their quality like?
>How does the patch quality of either card compare to say, the
>GUS's patches?
Ouch! The Roland's are considered probably the top GM/GS cards currently
available. SCD-15 is GS compatible while SCD-10 is GM only. You don't
need GS for games, but supposedly there is difference is quality between
the two. They sound quite realistic. SCD-15 has like 4MB(compressed 8MB?).
--
Fred Mah --- fm...@widget.ecn.purdue.edu
Archana S. Prasad
>Frederick Y Mah (fm...@widget.ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
>: Ouch! The Roland's are considered probably the top GM/GS cards currently
>: available. SCD-15 is GS compatible while SCD-10 is GM only. You don't
>: need GS for games, but supposedly there is difference is quality between
>: the two. They sound quite realistic. SCD-15 has like 4MB(compressed 8MB?).
>The reason I was asking is because I can get a good deal on a SCD-10.
>Unfortunately, not on the SCD-15. I currently have a SB16 + GUS combo
>and as it is, my setup is very tight (I'm running out of IRQ's, DMA's,
>and addresses to use!). If I get the SCD-10, I might run into the
>brickwall where I don't have enough free resources to fit it in.
>I really want better game compatibility and my GUS doesn't seem to be
>faring well these days. If there indeed is a big difference in output
>quality, I'd probably get rid of the GUS.
>Say, do you know if the SCD-10 uses it's own address and IRQ?
>Also, perhaps what addresses and IRQ's it can use (if any)?
The only resource you might run out of with SCD-10 or SCD-15
is spacein your PC! Both these cards use the SB16 for access and control.
They don't need any extra IRQ, DMA, Base address beyond those
already in use by the SB16.
Aloke Prasad
Ferdinand Mataragnon
: Ouch! The Roland's are considered probably the top GM/GS cards currently
: available. SCD-15 is GS compatible while SCD-10 is GM only. You don't
: need GS for games, but supposedly there is difference is quality between
: the two. They sound quite realistic. SCD-15 has like 4MB(compressed 8MB?).
The reason I was asking is because I can get a good deal on a SCD-10.
Unfortunately, not on the SCD-15. I currently have a SB16 + GUS combo
and as it is, my setup is very tight (I'm running out of IRQ's, DMA's,
and addresses to use!). If I get the SCD-10, I might run into the
brickwall where I don't have enough free resources to fit it in.
I really want better game compatibility and my GUS doesn't seem to be
faring well these days. If there indeed is a big difference in output
quality, I'd probably get rid of the GUS.
Say, do you know if the SCD-10 uses it's own address and IRQ?
Also, perhaps what addresses and IRQ's it can use (if any)?
Ferdinand
mata...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
Darryl Okahata
> In article <3nqccj$s...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca> mata...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca (Ferdinand Mataragnon) writes:
>
> >Say, do you know if the SCD-10 uses it's own address and IRQ?
> >Also, perhaps what addresses and IRQ's it can use (if any)?
>
> The only resource you might run out of with SCD-10 or SCD-15
> is spacein your PC! Both these cards use the SB16 for access and control.
> They don't need any extra IRQ, DMA, Base address beyond those
> already in use by the SB16.
No, having an SCD-15 *DOES* require additional ports/IRQ. While
the SCD-15 doesn't have any port/IRQ requirements by itself, you'll have
to enable some on the *SOUNDCARD* (not the SCD-15), so that the computer
can talk to the soundcard, which then talks to the SCD-15. Typically,
port 0x330-??? and IRQ 2/9 are used (for maximal games compatibility,
but many newer games allow you to adjust this); no (zero) DMA channels
are used.
-- Darryl Okahata
Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.
Darryl Okahata
> In article <3ntsib$j...@canyon.sr.hp.com> dar...@sr.hp.com (Darryl Okahata) writes:
>
> > No, having an SCD-15 *DOES* require additional ports/IRQ. While
> >the SCD-15 doesn't have any port/IRQ requirements by itself, you'll have
> >to enable some on the *SOUNDCARD* (not the SCD-15), so that the computer
> >can talk to the soundcard, which then talks to the SCD-15. Typically,
> >port 0x330-??? and IRQ 2/9 are used (for maximal games compatibility,
> >but many newer games allow you to adjust this); no (zero) DMA channels
> >are used.
>
> The SB16 will use a midi address (default 330h, but can be changed by
> jumpers, not eliminated), a base address for digital sound (default 220h), and
> an IRQ (default 5), and a 8 bitDMA and a 16 bit DMA (can be changed to be the
> same as the previous8 bit DMA channel).
I was referring to soundcards in general. With my soundcard (and
I'm proud that it's *NOT* an SB16), the MPU-401 port is disabled by
default.
> Adding a SCD-15, therefore, does not require any resources in addition to the
> ones mentioned above.
This is probably true with SB16s. However, I, personally, would
not add a daughterboard to an SB16.
Archana S. Prasad
>Do you know if there are any compatibility issues with the SCD-10 (or
>SCD-15) connected to a SB16 with DSP version 4.05?
The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
I personally have a SB16 ASP with DSP ver 4.05, SCD-15. I have had NO problems
of any sorts with games (Wolf3d, DOOM, DOOM2, Heretic, Descent, Tie Fighter,
Dark Forces, Lemmings). I have over 30 megs of MIDI files from various
internet ftp sources, using 3 or 4 different midi players. None of them have
had any problems playing the midi files. Of course, the quality of midi files
from internet tends to be a little uneven.
I don't have very high audiphile expectations from my PC system. SB16 may not
be the most quiet system (in terms of S/N ratio, ambient electrical noise in a
PC, etc.). However, with my 3 piece Altec Lansing speakers, they sound very
nice. Perfect for games and casual midi listening. BTW, SCD-15, though
pricey, is worth every penny (IMO).
All in all, I would still buy such stuff from a retailer with a good return
policy, and test out all my favourite games before the return period runs out.
its a good practice in general when buying anything computer related.
Aloke Prasad
Archana S. Prasad
>Archana S. Prasad (shar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>> In article <3nqccj$s...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca> mata...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca (Ferdinand Mataragnon) writes:
>>
>> >Say, do you know if the SCD-10 uses it's own address and IRQ?
>> >Also, perhaps what addresses and IRQ's it can use (if any)?
>>
>> The only resource you might run out of with SCD-10 or SCD-15
>> is spacein your PC! Both these cards use the SB16 for access and control.
>> They don't need any extra IRQ, DMA, Base address beyond those
>> already in use by the SB16.
> No, having an SCD-15 *DOES* require additional ports/IRQ. While
>the SCD-15 doesn't have any port/IRQ requirements by itself, you'll have
>to enable some on the *SOUNDCARD* (not the SCD-15), so that the computer
>can talk to the soundcard, which then talks to the SCD-15. Typically,
>port 0x330-??? and IRQ 2/9 are used (for maximal games compatibility,
>but many newer games allow you to adjust this); no (zero) DMA channels
>are used.
The SB16 will use a midi address (default 330h, but can be changed by
jumpers, not eliminated), a base address for digital sound (default 220h), and
an IRQ (default 5), and a 8 bitDMA and a 16 bit DMA (can be changed to be the
same as the previous8 bit DMA channel).
That makes it 2 base address, 1 IRQ and a minimum of 1 DMA channel. The SB 16
uses these regardless of the presence of a daughterboard. I guess it uses
these for accessing its FM synth if a DB is absent.
Adding a SCD-15, therefore, does not require any resources in addition to the
ones mentioned above.
Aloke Prasad
Eugene Kang
>> >Also, perhaps what addresses and IRQ's it can use (if any)?
>>
>> The only resource you might run out of with SCD-10 or SCD-15
>> is spacein your PC! Both these cards use the SB16 for access and control.
>> They don't need any extra IRQ, DMA, Base address beyond those
>> already in use by the SB16.
>
> No, having an SCD-15 *DOES* require additional ports/IRQ. While
>the SCD-15 doesn't have any port/IRQ requirements by itself, you'll have
>to enable some on the *SOUNDCARD* (not the SCD-15), so that the computer
>can talk to the soundcard, which then talks to the SCD-15. Typically,
>port 0x330-??? and IRQ 2/9 are used (for maximal games compatibility,
>but many newer games allow you to adjust this); no (zero) DMA channels
>are used.
Does the AWE32 use any DMA for it's MIDI?
Ferdinand Mataragnon
: The only resource you might run out of with SCD-10 or SCD-15
: is spacein your PC! Both these cards use the SB16 for access and control.
: They don't need any extra IRQ, DMA, Base address beyond those
: already in use by the SB16.
: Aloke Prasad
Do you know if there are any compatibility issues with the SCD-10 (or
SCD-15) connected to a SB16 with DSP version 4.05?
Ferdinand
mata...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
Darryl Okahata
> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
It's not quite "anecdotal". See the appended messages.
> I personally have a SB16 ASP with DSP ver 4.05, SCD-15. I have had NO problems
> of any sorts with games (Wolf3d, DOOM, DOOM2, Heretic, Descent, Tie Fighter,
> Dark Forces, Lemmings). I have over 30 megs of MIDI files from various
Well, as DSP v4.05 supposedly does not have the "problem", it is not
surprising that you have no problems.
-- Darryl Okahata
Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.
===============================================================================
From: than...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Thomas Ward Hanselman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: General MIDI sounds...
Date: 2 Feb 1995 12:04:46 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
In article <3gpjv8$k...@studsys.mscs.mu.edu>,
Michael A Pollmann <poll...@studsys.mscs.mu.edu> wrote:
>In article <3gpe65$m...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>Tom M. Laufert <fo...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>>
>> I have just purchased a Ensoniq SoundscapeDB wavetable upgrade. It
>>is set to MIDI port 330. Whenever I play a game (most of the time) some of
>>the music hangs, and does not stop. I am wondering how to fix it and what I
>>did (if anything). It mostly happens on CDROM games but it also happens on D
>>OOM
>>Tie fighter and most others.
>>
>> So if there is anything anyone can tell me about this problem I would
>>appreciate it. Thanks
I'll bet your DB is attached to a SB16, right? If it is, check the DSP version
(it's in diagnose software, at the top of the screen), if it's 4.11 (i think),
you're screwed. I had an SB16 SCSI-II with that DSP version, and had massive
hanging notes problems with 3, count 'em, _3_ daughter boards from _3_
different companies (Creative Labs, Media Vision, Turtle Beach). The problems
disappearaed when I downgraded to a SB16 Basic (DSP version 4.05).
>
>You're probably not going to like hearing this..
>A few months back a friend of mine got his Gateway 2000 system with the
>Ensoniq SoundScape card. General Midi music had the same symptoms you
>describe. Apparently, the SS is >NOT< 100% GM compatible, and many games
>will have trouble with it. Games that list the SoundScape specifically
>should run fine, but General MIDI will cause you some problems. (FYI..
>There is a fix for Tie Fighter that fixed a problem with notes hanging, but
>I think even with the fix the SS will have problems.) If you can, I HIGHLY
>suggest exchanging your DB for another one. I have a Creative Labs Wave
>Blaster and I love it.. I know the Roland DB boards also work great.. Good luc
>k
ACK!! NO! Creative's Waveblaster SUCKS. It's old, outdated, and overpriced.
There are boards out there that sound much better, and cost less.
Ones that cost less:
Turtle Beach Rio ($139, sounds great, can put RAM on it for custom
samples)
Media Vision's Pro. Wavetable Upgrade ($169, sounds grea too, no RAM)
Roland's SCD-10 (around $159...it's Roland, what's to say?)
Of course, there's The SCD-15...but it's just over $200..but it should sound
great, too.
Tom Hanselman
than...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.games
From: a260...@cdf.toronto.edu (Galasso Emilio N)
Subject: Re: Wavetable FAQ? or What are my options?
Sender: ne...@cdf.toronto.edu (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eddie
Organization: University of Toronto, Computing Disciplines Facility
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 04:58:35 GMT
In article <3jp3u2$s...@canyon.sr.hp.com>,
Darryl Okahata <dar...@sr.hp.com> wrote:
> Some SB16s seem to have problems with daughterboards. It seems to
>be a big enough problem that Lucasart's Dark Forces demo recommends that
>General MIDI *NOT* be used if you have an SB16 w/daughterboard. The
>problem supposedly exists only with SB16s. If you have a non-SB16 and
>daughtercard, there's *NO* problem. To the end of this message, I've
>appended a copy of a message that might explain what's going on (if so,
>the problem exists only with some SB16s).
Well, although I am beginning to agree that the SB16 does in fact have
trouble with daughterboards (read below) the problem that LucasArts had
with the SB16 daughterboards has been solved. There has been a "fix" out
for a long time called SBMPU401.EXE. It apparently fixed a problem with
certain games not recognising the MPU401. I never had to use it until
the Dark Forces demo came out... and with the fix I had no problems
running General MIDI. Without the fix, the install program would not let
me choose the General MIDI option insisting that it was an inappropriate
selection. The release version of Dark Forces has cured this problem...
and I'm currenly being blown away by the fabulous music in Dark Forces.
Obviously if the SBMPU401.EXE file could cure the problem, it could
be coded into Dark Forces.
>From: than...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Thomas Ward Hanselman)
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
>Subject: Re: General MIDI sounds...
>Date: 2 Feb 1995 12:04:46 GMT
>Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
>NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>
>I'll bet your DB is attached to a SB16, right? If it is, check the DSP version
>(it's in diagnose software, at the top of the screen), if it's 4.11 (i think),
>you're screwed. I had an SB16 SCSI-II with that DSP version, and had massive
>hanging notes problems with 3, count 'em, _3_ daughter boards from _3_
>different companies (Creative Labs, Media Vision, Turtle Beach). The problems
>disappearaed when I downgraded to a SB16 Basic (DSP version 4.05).
I think this person has a point and I would really like for a Creative Labs
representative to comment on this. A friend and I recently purchased
Turtle Beach RIOs (I upgraded from a WaveBlaster but this is my friend's
first MIDI card). He has been suffering from hanging notes in various
different games... in particular: X-Wing Collectors CD, Relentless, and
sadly, Dark Forces. I am now on level 9 of Dark Forces and have never once
heard a hanging note. I thought that perhaps X-Wing used the old LucasArts
General MIDI driver (the one from the original Tie FIghter) which also
caused hanging notes but was fixed with a later update. However, I get
no such hanging note on my system in either X-Wing or Relentless.
After reading this message today, I decided to check our DSP versions.
Wouldn't you know it?!? My SB16's DSP is v4.05 while my friend's is v4.12.
This would correspond exactly to the above poster's message. Now my friend
is curious as to what he can do considering this hanging note is
EXTREMELY annoying... yet he has owned his SB16 for some time now. It was
only recently that he installed a MIDI card so there was no way he could
have known about the problem.
>ACK!! NO! Creative's Waveblaster SUCKS. It's old, outdated, and overpriced.
>There are boards out there that sound much better, and cost less.
>Ones that cost less:
> Turtle Beach Rio ($139, sounds great, can put RAM on it for custom
> samples)
> Media Vision's Pro. Wavetable Upgrade ($169, sounds grea too, no RAM)
>
> Roland's SCD-10 (around $159...it's Roland, what's to say?)
>Of course, there's The SCD-15...but it's just over $200..but it should sound
>great, too.
I wouldn't say the WaveBlaster sucks. I enjoyed it for quite some time.
However, it is old, outdated, and overpriced. The lack of Reverb and Chorus
really makes it sound weak. I've had my RIO now for about a week and I
absolutely love it. Sounds fantastic, and the RAM capabilties just adds to
the fun (even though MIDI patch transfers are terribly slow).
--
Emilio Galasso
a260...@cdf.toronto.edu
University of Toronto, Computer Science.
Judge Dredd
>Does the AWE32 use any DMA for it's MIDI?
Yes, the AWE32 does use a DMA channel (as a matter of fact up to 2), but
not for midi. DMA is used to stream wave data to the DAC, by default
the AWE32 uses two DMA channels, a lo and a hi. the lo is used for 8 bit
samples, and the hi is used to stream 16bit samples.
Archana S. Prasad
>
>Archana S. Prasad (shar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
>> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
>> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
> It's not quite "anecdotal". See the appended messages.
>> I personally have a SB16 ASP with DSP ver 4.05, SCD-15. I have had NO problems
>> of any sorts with games (Wolf3d, DOOM, DOOM2, Heretic, Descent, Tie Fighter,
>> Dark Forces, Lemmings). I have over 30 megs of MIDI files from various
> Well, as DSP v4.05 supposedly does not have the "problem", it is not
>surprising that you have no problems.
> -- Darryl Okahata
> Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
======
... Attatched messages on SB16 problems deleted....
Well the evidence is still limited to 2 or 3 cases. The verdict on the DSP
version correlation will be in after the hardware/software combo is tested
systematically in a lab. So far, no organization or independent lab has
formed the conclusion on the DSP version. CL or Lucas Arts have not done so
either.
Without a detailed study of the 2 users who had DSP versions greater than
4.11, its premature to assign that to be the reason. They might have had some
other things in common, eg., motherboard design, DMA channel malfuncion,
even other hardware problems with their SB16, or a gazillion other things
that can go wrong in PC hardware/software combos.
I am not saying that the DSP version is NOT the problem. I am saying that
more data has to be in before such conclusion can be drawn.
Thats why I always advise people to get their satuff from a good dealer with
return policy, and to test their games thoroughly after installing SB16s and
daughterboards.
Aloke Prasad
Markus Pingel
: >> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
: >> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
: >> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
They are not just rumors. I'm using a SB16 with DSP ver 4.11 and a
SCD-10 and i've experienced this stuck notes problem with Dark Forces.
I've written to the german distributor of LucasArts games and they
said yes, they know about this problem and they can only recommend a
Roland SCC-1 as a General MIDI device.
Their advice: 'the SCC-1 is not very expensive at the moment ...'
In two german game magazines (Power Play 3/95 and PC Games)
there were articles about this theme.
In Power Play the article was a reply to some letters to the editor
starting with 'As we got a lot of mail concerning this subject we
asked Creative Labs ...'.
In brief: Creative Labs said that they changed the DSP in order to
comply to the MPU401 specifications (some timing stuff) and that they
informed Roland about these changes. So Creative Labs does not feel
responsible for this problem.
: >> I personally have a SB16 ASP with DSP ver 4.05, SCD-15. I have had NO problems
: >> of any sorts with games (Wolf3d, DOOM, DOOM2, Heretic, Descent, Tie Fighter,
: >> Dark Forces, Lemmings).
Does Wolf3D support General MIDI ???
The strange thing about this stuck notes problem is it only happens
with some games.
I've experienced that is works fine with all games that use special
drivers (like HMI or Miles (AIL) ) to play sound and music including
- Magic Carpet
- Wing Commander III (in the manual they say that they tested SB16/SCD-10)
- Descent (Shareware only)
- System Shock enhanced CD
- Sim City 2000
- The 7th Guest
- Windows (not quite a game but still an adventure :-) )
Under Windows i can play an 8 channel MOD file and General MIDI
songs at the same time while using another Windows application.
On the other hand SB16/SCD-10 does not work with a number of games like
- Tie Fighter (with the General MIDI patch from LucasArts)
- XWing CD
- Dark Forces
really annoying as is takes very long to finish a level. The hanging
notes stop when i leave the game
- DOOM, Heretic
The good thing here is that i can stop the stuck notes by pressing
the 'pause' button twice (an 'All Notes Off' command is sent to the
daughterboard)
These games work fine when i just select General MIDI for music and no sound.
Could somebody try one of the above mentioned or other games and report about the
results including a short description of the hardware used ?
I tried all possible combinations of
Sound Blaster 16 with DSP 4.11
Aztech NOVA 16
Roland SCD-10
An Aztech wavetable (not very good sounds compared to the SCD-10)
Pentium 90 with Intel Plato Motherboard (BIOS 12)
486DX/2 66 with EISA/VLB Motherboard
with different I/O port, IRQ level and DMA channel settings. (under
MS-DOS 6.2, Novell Dos 7 and OS/2 Warp)
The problem occurs with SB16 and one of the wavetable cards when
playing one of these games.
: Well the evidence is still limited to 2 or 3 cases.
"Of course you have two multiply every figure he gives by a factor of 10. Apart
from that he is perfectly normal"
: I am not saying that the DSP version is NOT the problem. I am saying that
: more data has to be in before such conclusion can be drawn.
I agree with that.
The conclusion Roland has drawn is to bring out the new MPU401-AT,
which is a complete MIDI port (with interrupt mode) and a host for the
Roland SCD10 and SCD15 daughtercards.
-- Marku
Archana S. Prasad
>In brief: Creative Labs said that they changed the DSP in order to
>comply to the MPU401 specifications (some timing stuff) and that they
>informed Roland about these changes. So Creative Labs does not feel
>responsible for this problem.
If this was Roland's fault, why do stuck notes occur with SB16s and other
daughterboards? I don't buy CL's logic.
>I've experienced that is works fine with all games that use special
>drivers (like HMI or Miles (AIL) ) to play sound and music including
... List deleted ...
>On the other hand SB16/SCD-10 does not work with a number of games like
>- Tie Fighter (with the General MIDI patch from LucasArts)
>- XWing CD
>- Dark Forces
> really annoying as is takes very long to finish a level. The hanging
> notes stop when i leave the game
>- DOOM, Heretic
> The good thing here is that i can stop the stuck notes by pressing
> the 'pause' button twice (an 'All Notes Off' command is sent to the
> daughterboard)
This may not be relevant, except as just a data point in the pattern of SB16
behavior. I have DSP ver 4.05. I have no stuck note problems with Tie
Fighter, DF, DOOM, Heretic.
The fact that some software do not have the problem, while some do indicated
this to be a software issue, does it not?
>: Well the evidence is still limited to 2 or 3 cases.
>"Of course you have two multiply every figure he gives by a factor of 10. Apart
>from that he is perfectly normal"
Who are you quoting? Monty Python? Just curious.
>The conclusion Roland has drawn is to bring out the new MPU401-AT,
>which is a complete MIDI port (with interrupt mode) and a host for the
>Roland SCD10 and SCD15 daughtercards.
This does cost more. How much does the MPU401 AT card cost?
I guess I was lucky to get the DSP ver 4.05 of the SB16 when I bought it
about 2 yrs ago (in an OEM Gateway 2000 version SB16). Even those on the
bleeding edge get lucky sometimes!! :-)
Aloke Prasad
Darryl Okahata
> Archana S. Prasad (shar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>
> : >> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
> : >> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
> : >> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
>
> They are not just rumors. I'm using a SB16 with DSP ver 4.11 and a
> SCD-10 and i've experienced this stuck notes problem with Dark Forces.
> I've written to the german distributor of LucasArts games and they
> said yes, they know about this problem and they can only recommend a
> Roland SCC-1 as a General MIDI device.
Here's another posting from comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy that
complains about hanging notes.
-- Darryl Okahata
Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.
===============================================================================
From: ala...@harpo.ucsd.edu (Alexander Lapid)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy
Subject: Windows and the Roland SCD10, SCD15
Date: 3 May 1995 16:24:12 GMT
Organization: UCSD SOE
I know that this question has been asked before but how do you install
and set up the drivers for the SCD10 or SCD15 in Windows? I follow the
instructions in the Roland manual to load the MPU401 driver from my
original Windows disk, but when I go to set up the card it says that it
can't find or recognize the card. I can hear GM music in DOS games
like Doom 1.666 and TIE fighter, but not in Windows.
The SCD10 sits on a SB16 basic edition in a 486 Micronics VLB
motherboard. The DSP version on the SB16 is 4.11 and I do have the
hanging note problem in both Doom and TIE fighter. I'll probably
install the TIE fighter sound patch and see if the problem still
persists.
By the way, I got my SCD10 at a computer superstore called MicroCenter.
They were the only non-music store I have seen to have the Roland SCD10,
SCD15, and the RAP10, priced $179, $220, and $275(?) respectively. When
I went to the store 3 weeks ago they had 4 SCD15s for sale and last week
when I went to buy one all were gone and so I settled for the SCD10. I
went retail instead of mail order because MicroCenter has a standard 30
day return policy.
Alex
David Hardison
: The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
: daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
: by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
Well, anecdotal or not, I have a SB16 SCSI with DSP v4.12 and I had the
hanging note problem in every game I played when I tried to use
General MIDI with a Waveblaster daughterboard (yes, the problem is not
limited to third party cards, even CL's very own Waveblaster does it).
Some games were very bad (Doom v1.666) and others were better
(Dark Forces) but they all exhibited the same problem.
I finally got around this problem by ditching the Waveblaster altogether
and buying a Turtle Beach Maui board which is a standalone GM card.
I wasn't going to gamble any more money on another daughter board since
the problem seems to be common to all of them.
I thought about getting the Roland MPU card, but I don't think it's
available yet and the Waveblaster sound quality never impressed me that
much (although I probably would have kept it if it worked).
The Maui sounds better than the Waveblaster, was cheaper, and I haven't
had a single stuck note since I installed it.
If all I have to do to cure the problem is remove the Waveblaster,
insert a standalone MIDI board and nothing else in my system changes
(same motherboard, same game settings, same system software configuration)
then the problem must be with the SB/WB combo. Since some people see
the problem with other daughterboards, it must not be a problem with
the waveblaster. Since some people have the problem and some don't, it
must somehow be tied to the version of the SB card that they have.
I don't know if the DSP version is the cause or not, but it sounds
as compelling a reason as any.
-----------------------------------------------
David Hardison | david.h...@gsfc.nasa.gov
| hard...@vlsi.gsfc.nasa.gov
-----------------------------------------------
Sunny Leung
In article <3o79jf$e...@nx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de>,
Markus Pingel (mar...@hertz.Physik.Uni-Dortmund.DE) writes:
>Archana S. Prasad (shar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>
>: >> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
>: >> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
>: >> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
>
>They are not just rumors. I'm using a SB16 with DSP ver 4.11 and a
>SCD-10 and i've experienced this stuck notes problem with Dark Forces.
>I've written to the german distributor of LucasArts games and they
>said yes, they know about this problem and they can only recommend a
>Roland SCC-1 as a General MIDI device.
Is this problem confined to the SB16? I have an AWE32 (which really is a SB16
MCD + EMU-8000 when you think about it) with a 4.12 DSP but I haven't had any
stuck notes problem with games when I had my SCD-15 clipped onto the
soundcard.
[list of games which work with the SCD-10 beamed away]
>On the other hand SB16/SCD-10 does not work with a number of games like
>
>- Tie Fighter (with the General MIDI patch from LucasArts)
>- XWing CD
>- Dark Forces
> really annoying as is takes very long to finish a level. The hanging
> notes stop when i leave the game
>- DOOM, Heretic
> The good thing here is that i can stop the stuck notes by pressing
> the 'pause' button twice (an 'All Notes Off' command is sent to the
> daughterboard)
Indeed, most of the problems I've had with my SCD-15 when it was on the AWE32
were with games deciding to hang right from the start when I chose GM for
music and SB for sound.
e.g. Dark Forces demo (not the final version), Ecstatica, Wacky Wheels,
Mortal Kombat II.
It must have been something to do with the fact that the MPU-401
implementation on the AWE32/SB16 is wonky. Clipping the SCD-15 on the
MPU-401AT solved all the problems.
>These games work fine when i just select General MIDI for music and no sound.
>
>Could somebody try one of the above mentioned or other games and report about the
>results including a short description of the hardware used ?
I played through Doom 2 and Heretic with the following hardware and both
worked fine from start to end:
ASUS P54-SP4 P90 motherboard, 256k L2 cache, 16 meg RAM, Stealth 64 VRAM PCI,
AWE32 (used as a SB16, DSP ver 4.12) + SCD-15 mounted on the AWE32.
>: I am not saying that the DSP version is NOT the problem. I am saying that
>: more data has to be in before such conclusion can be drawn.
>
>I agree with that.
Yep.
>The conclusion Roland has drawn is to bring out the new MPU401-AT,
>which is a complete MIDI port (with interrupt mode) and a host for the
>Roland SCD10 and SCD15 daughtercards.
The MPU-401 - God's gift to daughterboards :-)
Regards
--
Sunny Leung: <su...@randland.dialix.oz.au>, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
Jim Davis
S>>> The reports of stuck notes with SB16's with DSP ver 4.12 and above and
>>> daughterboards are largely rumors. They may be true, but have been denied
>>> by CL. Most of the evidence is largely annecdotal.
S>>> I personally have a SB16 ASP with DSP ver 4.05, SCD-15. I have had NO pro
>>> of any sorts with games (Wolf3d, DOOM, DOOM2, Heretic, Descent, Tie Fighte
>>surprising that you have no problems.
>> Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
>... Attatched messages on SB16 problems deleted....
>version correlation will be in after the hardware/software combo is tested
>systematically in a lab. So far, no organization or independent lab has
>formed the conclusion on the DSP version. CL or Lucas Arts have not done so
>either.
I have a DSP ver 4.05 and traded it with my son, he has ver 4.11 and it
will not work right with his RIO. Notes keep hanging. Its been several days now
without a hanging note. When we contacted TBS they stated the RIO was made for
the Tropez and we should contact CLS for new drivers. CLS stated they don't
write drivers for other companies cards.
---
* QMPro 1.53 * There are lies, damn lies, and anti-environmentalists
Daron Myrick
sometimes hangs notes also when not sending a all notes off and sysex reset
between two songs.
I think hanging notes are all the result of improper MIDI sequencing
implementation since MIDI is a very recursive and timesliced thing
implemented on PC's.
I'll make one exception to my statement by admitting that the WaveBlaster does
have a hanging note problem as the result of a firmware bug.
Markus Pingel
: >In brief: Creative Labs said that they changed the DSP in order to
: >comply to the MPU401 specifications (some timing stuff) and that they
: >informed Roland about these changes. So Creative Labs does not feel
: >responsible for this problem.
: If this was Roland's fault, why do stuck notes occur with SB16s and other
: daughterboards? I don't buy CL's logic.
I don't buy that logic, too. I was just quoting from the article.
Another article of this thread says that stuck notes occur even with
Creative's own daughterboard.
: >On the other hand SB16/SCD-10 does not work with a number of games like
: >- Tie Fighter (with the General MIDI patch from LucasArts)
: >- XWing CD
: >- Dark Forces
: >- DOOM, Heretic
: The fact that some software do not have the problem, while some do indicated
: this to be a software issue, does it not?
Yes and no, because all of the games work with DSP ver 4.05 but only
some of them with DSP ver 4.11 or 4.12.
So there must be at least two different ways of programming the
soundcard: One that works with all versions of the DSP and one that
doesn't work with the newer versions.
: >"Of course you have two multiply every figure he gives by a factor of 10. Apart
: >from that he is perfectly normal"
: Who are you quoting? Monty Python? Just curious.
That's correct. (But i think it's more a paraphrase because i changed
the number)
: >The conclusion Roland has drawn is to bring out the new MPU401-AT,
: >which is a complete MIDI port (with interrupt mode) and a host for the
: >Roland SCD10 and SCD15 daughtercards.
: This does cost more. How much does the MPU401 AT card cost?
I do not know exactly but i don't think it will be very expensive (i
remember an article about this card in which a price of about $30 was
mentioned). According to Roland's announcement the card should be
available already, but i didn't found a dealer who sells
this card up to now.
: I guess I was lucky to get the DSP ver 4.05 of the SB16 when I bought it
Markus Pingel
: It must have been something to do with the fact that the MPU-401
: implementation on the AWE32/SB16 is wonky. Clipping the SCD-15 on the
: MPU-401AT solved all the problems.
So You have a MPU-401 AT card. How much did it cost ?
-- Markus
Sunny Leung
I don't know how much the MPU-401AT will cost in the US or in Denmark (.de??)
but it's rather expensive in Australia (because of the high Yen and low
Aussie dollar). Anyway, the last time I checked with Roland Australia the RRP
for the MPU-401AT was AUD$269.
I had my parents pick one up in Hong Kong for AUD$100 less.