LCD dead pixel policies
phil-new...@ipal.net
at the time of product delivery to be a defective product. Yet most buyers
do.
1. Just what percentage of TVs and PC monitors have even one dead/stuck pixel?
Apparently that percentage is quite low. Yet no store (including online) is
willing to go far enough to do what I suggest (I have made the suggestion to
4 of them, and all of them eventually replied saying their existing policy is
in line with manufacturer and industry standards ... which of course is a bunch
of male bovine feces).
My suggestion:
Some stores should offer LCD TVs and LCD PC monitors with a price increment
or add on assurance that there will be absolutely zero dead pixels or they
(the store itself, not sending customers to the manufacturer) replace the
whole unit, plus cover the return and re-ship delivery costs, to ensure that
the customer gets a unit that has zero dead pixels (and stays that way for
a minimum period of 30 days after arrival of the non-defective unit).
If the percentage of units with even one dead pixel is less than 1%, then a
store can actually make a profit by charging a 3% premium for this kind of
service. That would make a $400 unit cost $412.
2. If you had a choice, for the exact model of LCD TV or LCD PC monitor you
wanted to buy, at one (reasonable) price for the unit with an industry
standard dead pixel replacement policy, and another at 3% higher price
with an absolute zero dead pixel policy, which would you choose?
I believe a large part of the market would choose the zero dead pixel policy,
especially for PC monitors or expensive large screen TVs. If that is true,
then a retailer offering such a policy could benefit not only from the premium
offering itself, but also from the market sector growth (until every retailer
discovered this).
The retailers who do get back defective units might be able to negotiate with
the manufacturers to refund their costs, or compensate for them. Or they may
choose to sell the items at a discount and boost their profit over that of
the zero dead pixel assurance plan itself.
3. How many people would be willing to buy a TV or PC monitor with a few dead
pixels (and a known number) at some discount based on how many pixels are
dead?
I think the answer to #3 would be "a few". It might be enough for retailers
to sell off the defective units as "disclosed defective" and not have to deal
with manufactures.
Or this might get more retailers to put more pressure on manufacturers to
improve their delivered yields. If the percentage of defective units are as
low as manufacturers say, it should not be that much of a price increase to
just toss the bad ones in the trash (or more likely, sell them off for parts
scavengers or other places).
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Ed Light
as Staples, then you're covered against being stuck with dead pixels.
Though I don't know if that covers replacement, or just refunds.
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phil-new...@ipal.net
| If you buy at a place that lets you return it if you don't like it, such
| as Staples, then you're covered against being stuck with dead pixels.
|
| Though I don't know if that covers replacement, or just refunds.
The selection at Staples is horrible.
Wes Newell
> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Ed Light <nob...@nobody.there> wrote:
>
> | If you buy at a place that lets you return it if you don't like it,
> such | as Staples, then you're covered against being stuck with dead
> pixels. |
> | Though I don't know if that covers replacement, or just refunds.
>
> The selection at Staples is horrible.
I bought a 37" Envision from them that works great for $599.99. Excellent
picture. Lot's of inputs. Smart VGA connector. Excellent ATSC/NTSC/QAM
tuner. Selection may be limited, but it was perfect for me.:-)
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> It seems most manufacturers and stores still don't consider a few dead pixels
> at the time of product delivery to be a defective product. Yet most buyers
> do.
Buy Samsung. They have zero dead pixel policy.
phil-new...@ipal.net
| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:31:49 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
|
|> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Ed Light <nob...@nobody.there> wrote:
|>
|> | If you buy at a place that lets you return it if you don't like it,
|> such | as Staples, then you're covered against being stuck with dead
|> pixels. |
|> | Though I don't know if that covers replacement, or just refunds.
|>
|> The selection at Staples is horrible.
|
| I bought a 37" Envision from them that works great for $599.99. Excellent
| picture. Lot's of inputs. Smart VGA connector. Excellent ATSC/NTSC/QAM
| tuner. Selection may be limited, but it was perfect for me.:-)
How many RF inputs? 1? 2? 3? Can it do OTA channels on all RF inputs?
How many HDMI/DVI inputs?
What do you mean by "Smart VGA connector"? It can detect any PC graphical
format? How wide a range of vertical (especially LOW end vertical Hz) can
it do?
phil-new...@ipal.net
According to Newegg, they do not in the USA. I have seen reports about this
policy in some other countries, like Australia. But I have seen none for the
USA.
Dave Seven
> According to Newegg, they do not in the USA. I have seen reports about this
> policy in some other countries, like Australia. But I have seen none for the
> USA.
>
It is international policy so NewEgg must replace the monitor too so
long as it is within 14 days of purchase.
2005/06/21
Question
What is Samsung's policy on dead pixels?
Answer
Samsung monitor products conform to the ISO 13406-2 standard with
regards to dead or missing pixels.
All LCD monitors:
Within 14 days of purchase if the monitor has 1 dead pixel or more
anywhere on the screen you are entitled to go back to the place of
purchase for them to replace it for you.
15/17" LCD monitors:
Outside the 14 days of purchase, if there is 1 dead pixel within an 8cm
x 8cm squared box in the middle of the monitor we will replace it under
the warranty. Outside the 8cm x 8cm squared box there needs to be 3 or
more dead pixels before we can replace the monitor.
19/21/24" LCD monitors:
Outside the 14 days of purchase if you have 1 or more dead pixels
anywhere on the screen we will replace it for you under warranty.
32/40" LCD monitors:
Outside the 14 days of purchase you require 3 or more dead pixels
anywhere on the screen before we can replace it.
For product support please contact our Customer Support department on
1300 362 603.
phil-new...@ipal.net
| phil-new...@ipal.net wrote:
|
|> According to Newegg, they do not in the USA. I have seen reports about this
|> policy in some other countries, like Australia. But I have seen none for the
|> USA.
|>
| It is international policy so NewEgg must replace the monitor too so
| long as it is within 14 days of purchase.
|
| http://erms.samsungelectronics.com/customer/au/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?SITE_ID=41&PG_ID=1&AT_ID=25057&PROD_SUB_ID=28
Where on this _Australia_ page does it say it applies to other countries?
Better yet, where is the _USA_ page that details this? I looked for it a
while back and it is nowhere to be found.
[snip snip]
| For product support please contact our Customer Support department on
| 1300 362 603.
I'm guessing that is an Australia number. You have the USA number?
Dave Seven
> I'm guessing that is an Australia number. You have the USA number?
>
1-800-SAMSUNG
http://www.samsung.com/ca/support/main/contactcenter.do
They automatically detect my IP address as coming from Canada and
redirect me to Canada support. Should be the same number though. Just
got to www.samsung.com and click on support then telephone logo in the
bottom left to make sure.
Dave Seven
> Where on this _Australia_ page does it say it applies to other countries?
It says this, "Samsung monitor products conform to the ISO 13406-2
standard with regards to dead or missing pixels.". ISO means
'International Standards Organization' which means it is an
international policy. I know that is their policy in the US too because
I have seen people say so many times.
Bob Myers
"Dave Seven" <not...@email.invalid> wrote in message
news:twEPj.85857$rd2.69229@pd7urf3no...
Sorry, but that's faulty reasoning. Just because Samsung, in one
market, states that they conform to a policy issued by an
"international" standards body is no indication that they have to
conform to that policy in other markets. If it IS their policy (or
anyone else's) to apply those standards in the U.S or elsewhere,
that decision is solely up to them.
Bob M.
Andrew Barss
: phil-new...@ipal.net wrote:
:> Where on this _Australia_ page does it say it applies to other countries?
: It says this, "Samsung monitor products conform to the ISO 13406-2
: standard with regards to dead or missing pixels.".
ISO 13406-2 is a standard for classifying displays by dead pixel numbers
allowed per million. Nothing in the standard says anything about a zero pixel policy
in general. A Class I display has zero pixels; but there are other classes which have
dead pixels, and according to wikipedia the majority of displays by the majority of makers are
class II, which allow several.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_13406-2
The easiest -- and only -- way to find out if Samsung has a zero dead pixel
policy in the US is to ask them,,not speculate.
-- Andy Barss
Dave Seven
Whatever. I don't need to ask them because I already know that is their
world-wide policy. You think they are going to enact that policy for AUS
customers but not U.S. customers? Wake up and smell the coffee!
Andrew Barss
: Whatever. I don't need to ask them because I already know that is their
: world-wide policy.
Um, no, you THINK that is their worldwide policy, but all the
evidence you have is a webpage that covers Australia. As others have pointed out.
You think they are going to enact that policy for AUS
: customers but not U.S. customers?
Very possibly.
-- Andy Barss
phil-new...@ipal.net
They certainly can do that. It might be due to legal reasons. It might be
due to market demands. There could be other reasons. International companies
have varying policies all the time.
Are you so confident of this that you will agree to buy from anyone in the US
any Samsung display that get that has as few as ONE dead or badly functioning
pixel, and the full price they paid, plus the shipping cost to you, if the
retailer refuses to replace it or refund it?
phil-new...@ipal.net
The ISO standard categorizes policies so there is some uniformity to compare.
There are various levels/categories to choose from. Samsung made that choice
be so far seems only to have stated so for the .AU market.
What people say their policy applies to the US, too? Are the _authoritative_
Samsung employees?
Dave Seven
>
> Um, no, you THINK that is their worldwide policy, but all the
> evidence you have is a webpage that covers Australia. As others have pointed out.
>
>
> You think they are going to enact that policy for AUS
> : customers but not U.S. customers?
>
> Very possibly.
>
> -- Andy Barss
>
I only pointed to that AUS website because that is what came up when I
did a google search. I didn't even realize it was Samsung AUS until
after I posted here. Let me put it this way instead then. I OWN A
SAMSUNG LCD SO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IS THERE POLICY FOR NORTH AMERICA
TOO! DUMBASS!
Dave Seven
> What people say their policy applies to the US, too? Are the _authoritative_
> Samsung employees?
>
And the warranty card on my Samsung LCD!
phil-new...@ipal.net
What utterly ... wrong ... logic. Just because you own one does NOT mean
there is such a policy. If you saw an advertisement that said so and that
influenced your purchasing decision, then that advertisement would be the
indication ... so cite if it that is so.
phil-new...@ipal.net
Scan it in. Or type in the exact wording. Maybe it really isn't what you
think it is. There's a lot of stuff out there that takes very careful
reading to pick up on the way they weasel out of what it appears to most
people that the say.
A "zero dead pixel" policy, especially if it is enforced through retailers,
would be a big marketing advantage. If Samsung has such a policy, why are
they not taking advantage of it in the US and using it in their marketing?
Why is there NO MENTION OF IT AT ALL in their USA website?
Dave Seven
> What utterly ... wrong ... logic. Just because you own one does NOT mean
> there is such a policy. If you saw an advertisement that said so and that
> influenced your purchasing decision, then that advertisement would be the
> indication ... so cite if it that is so.
>
Most tech people know this to be Samsung policy so if you don't then it
is because you are a stupid wanker with your head in the sand. Go do
your own research you lazy cunt. I only posted to give someone some good
advice about LCD purchses and dead pixel policy and all I get for it is
aggro from cocksuckers like you.
Dave Seven
> A "zero dead pixel" policy, especially if it is enforced through retailers,
> would be a big marketing advantage. If Samsung has such a policy, why are
> they not taking advantage of it in the US and using it in their marketing?
http://ars.samsung.com/customer/DownloadAnsTempl?AT_ID=20723&SEQ_NO=1
Samsung Customer Care Center at 1-800-SAMSUNG (1-800-726-7864)
phil-new...@ipal.net
I have added you to the (still fairly short) list of people that prefer to
just make personal attacks rather than be helpful and provide real info (or
be quiet when they just don't know).
Define tech people. Real tech people don't make up things and assume them
to be true. Real tech people either find out facts, or accept that they
do not know.
FYI: I already did my research. There is nothing online to indicate that
Samsung USA has such a policy or that Samsung has such a policy worldwide.
The fact that at least 2 major retailers deny the existance of such a policy
supports that no such policy exists.
If there is any evidence that Samsung USA has such a policy, you have the
opportunity to post it. If you don't I will assume it is because of one
of three reason: 1: you are a jerk 2: you really don't know (and you are
a jerk) 3: there is no such policy (and you are a jerk).
phil-new...@ipal.net
| phil-new...@ipal.net wrote:
|
|> A "zero dead pixel" policy, especially if it is enforced through retailers,
|> would be a big marketing advantage. If Samsung has such a policy, why are
|> they not taking advantage of it in the US and using it in their marketing?
|
| http://ars.samsung.com/customer/DownloadAnsTempl?AT_ID=20723&SEQ_NO=1
This is just a classification document. It does not specify any policy. It
neither says there is, nor says there is not, a "zero dead pixel policy".
| Samsung Customer Care Center at 1-800-SAMSUNG (1-800-726-7864)
I called, went through a few levels of phone menus, and finally reached someone
with a Hispanic name I could not completely get. I asked him if Samsung had a
"zero dead pixel policy" in the USA. He gave a very definite and clear "no".
I asked him if this was different than the Australian policy. He said he had
no information about policies in Australia as that is a completely different
company.
Dave Seven
> I called, went through a few levels of phone menus, and finally reached someone
> with a Hispanic name I could not completely get. I asked him if Samsung had a
> "zero dead pixel policy" in the USA. He gave a very definite and clear "no".
> I asked him if this was different than the Australian policy. He said he had
> no information about policies in Australia as that is a completely different
> company.
>
A completely different company? They are the same company worldwide. But
I have done further research and it appears I was maybe lead astray by
people who told me that was the Samsung policy in the U.S. too but it
looks like U.S. customers get a 3rd rate policy because your lousy
government doesn't give a damn about people and only cares about helping
make corporations rich. I don't live in the U.S. so don't really care
anyway.
phil-new...@ipal.net
There is an international company. Then in at least many countries, there is
a separate company (often, but not always, owned by the international one) to
import, distribute, and market the products. Policies often differ, and you
have correctly identified the primary cause why policies tend to be negative
or even arrogant, in the USA.
My earlier point still stands. A retailer could make additional profit by
providing an insurance against dead pixels through an added fee. If the
typical rate of failing units that the manufacturer won't replace is 1%, and
the cost of handling the failures is another 1% of total sales of that product,
then they could charge 3% for the insurance and make a profit from it, even if
they are just dumping the units with one dead pixel into a trash heap. They
could alternatively sell the failing units for a discount with full disclosure
of the defects. Some people might buy that insurance. Others might buy the
discounted units.
Andrew Barss
: phil-new...@ipal.net wrote:
:> I called, went through a few levels of phone menus, and finally reached someone
:> with a Hispanic name I could not completely get. I asked him if Samsung had a
:> "zero dead pixel policy" in the USA. He gave a very definite and clear "no".
:> I asked him if this was different than the Australian policy. He said he had
:> no information about policies in Australia as that is a completely different
:> company.
:>
: A completely different company? They are the same company worldwide. But
: I have done further research and it appears I was maybe lead astray by
: people who told me that was the Samsung policy in the U.S. too
So, you were wrong.
I missed the part of your post where you apologized for stuff like:
"Most tech people know this to be Samsung policy so if you don't then it
is because you are a stupid wanker with your head in the sand. Go do
your own research you lazy cunt. I only posted to give someone some good
advice about LCD purchses and dead pixel policy and all I get for it is
aggro from cocksuckers like you."
Care to repost it?
-- Andy Barss