Which big Vizio HDTVs for computer usage and watching TV, movies, fullscreen videos, etc.?

[Ant]

Hello.

I'd like to get a big HDTV that will work with both computer (Windows,
Linux, and Mac OS X) screens (gaming, videos, work, etc.) and watching
medias (TV shows/series, movies, etc. through cable TV and OTA). Also, I
would like to have many options for inputs (VGA [still using an old KVM
from Y2K], DVI, HDMI, etc.) and outputs. Which ones would work for my needs?

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"Size isn't everything. The whale is endangered, while the ant continues
to do just fine." --Bill Vaughan
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Wes Newell]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:29:15 -0700, Ant wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I'd like to get a big HDTV that will work with both computer (Windows,
> Linux, and Mac OS X) screens (gaming, videos, work, etc.) and watching
> medias (TV shows/series, movies, etc. through cable TV and OTA). Also, I
> would like to have many options for inputs (VGA [still using an old KVM
> from Y2K], DVI, HDMI, etc.) and outputs. Which ones would work for my
> needs?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Any of the ones that have the inputs you need.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jr70qt$je2$1...@dont-email.me...

The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.

jsw

[R. Mark Clayton]

"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
news:eMidnS7Sy50WKkvS...@earthlink.com...

Big LG sets have most of what you want.

Some small LG sets (e.g. M220WD) were designed as [Full HD] monitors, have
UHF, Scart, Composite, S-Video, Component, VGA , DVI and HDMI plus optical
audio out and came with a three year warranty.

[Ant]

On 6/12/2012 3:58 AM PT, Jim Wilkins typed:

> The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.

Aren't VGA always poor since it's old? I am not expecting to be awesome.
Even my old 19" Samsung LCD monitor for VGA isn't great through the old
KVM, but it is manageable.
--
"To the gods I am an ant, but to the ants, I am a god." --unknown

[Ant]

On 6/12/2012 5:26 AM PT, R. Mark Clayton typed:

> Big LG sets have most of what you want.
>
> Some small LG sets (e.g. M220WD) were designed as [Full HD] monitors, have
> UHF, Scart, Composite, S-Video, Component, VGA , DVI and HDMI plus optical
> audio out and came with a three year warranty.

It has to be Vizio due to special deals/discounts hence why I asked.
--
"Ants can carry twenty times their weight, which is useful information
if you're moving out and you need help getting a potato chip across
town." --Ron Darian

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Ant:

>
>It has to be Vizio due to special deals/discounts hence why I asked.

I've got a Vizio - chosen mainly bco price.

If your anticipated TV is going to do PIP, one thing to consider
is whether you need the TV to remember it's last state when you
turn it on. e.g. If I'm running split screen with my DVR in the
foreground and turn the TV off, when it turns on again I want it
tb running split screen with the DVR in the foreground.

Mine does not do that and I find it enough of a nuisance that I
would not buy another Vizio unless I found that problem fixed.

Also lacking in Vizio's PIP mode is equal access to inputs. One
PIP can get to various other devices besides the tuner but the
other cannot. Another deal-breaker for me. Heaven forbid
somebody should want to play their DVR in one PIP and a VHS in
the other.
--
Pete Cresswell

[GMAN]

In article <pp6dnVDNLIJz3UrS...@earthlink.com>, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>On 6/12/2012 3:58 AM PT, Jim Wilkins typed:
>
>> The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.
>
>Aren't VGA always poor since it's old? I am not expecting to be awesome.
>Even my old 19" Samsung LCD monitor for VGA isn't great through the old
>KVM, but it is manageable.

Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p

[Jim Wilkins]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:vvuet7tc287n4680b...@4ax.com...
> ...

> Also lacking in Vizio's PIP mode is equal access to inputs. One
> PIP can get to various other devices besides the tuner but the
> other cannot. Another deal-breaker for me. Heaven forbid
> somebody should want to play their DVR in one PIP and a VHS in
> the other.
> --
> Pete Cresswell

My workaround is to check other channels on the old TV + converter
box.

jsw

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Jim Wilkins:

>
>My workaround is to check other channels on the old TV + converter
>box.

I thought about a second, small TV as a substitute for PIP, but
PIP and being able to swap screens is soooooo convenient.

Other people I talk to don't even know what PIP is and, once I
explain it, they can't figure out why anybody would ever want it.

Probably an overlap there with people who tolerate commercials
better than I do.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message

news:g0mft71l1b7qvrvuv...@4ax.com...

Friends,

PIP is grossly overrated for average viewers, like my wife and me. From
1995, when we bought our super-duper (at that time) 35" big screen Sony with
PIP, we always had the cable box output A/V on one input set and the raw
cable (Ch 2 - Ch 75) on the other. PIP always worked easily and perfectly
but we rarely used it. I will guess we invoked it once every two years for
some obscure function. We could always record whatever we were waiting for,
so whatever it was, we didn't need it real-time.

About two years ago, we replaced that set with a new one, HD this time. It
has PIP and I have no idea how to get to it, despite having an engineering
degree. It's not ignorance on my part ... it's a matter of not caring, not
needing, not wanting, etc. Dig it?

In all sincerity, I believe anyone who hangs his hat on a gimmick like PIP
is wasting time, money, energy, etc. As always, your mileage may vary.

Bless you,
"Sal"

[G-squared]

On Jun 12, 3:58 am, "Jim Wilkins" <muratla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Any of the ones that have the inputs you need.
>
> The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.
>
> jsw

Absolutely. DVI-D / HDMI can greatly outperform VGA. Can VGA even go
to 1920x1080 ? If you tweak the sizes and clock frequency on the
monitor it can come close but try the Nokia monitor test and look at
the vertical lines alternating pixels. With digital it will be
absolutely clean. With VGA you'll see horizontal noise streaks. You're
seeing aliasing in video.

G²

[Jim Wilkins]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message

news:g0mft71l1b7qvrvuv...@4ax.com...
> ...>

> Probably an overlap there with people who tolerate commercials
> better than I do.

> Pete Cresswell

Personal preference.

I have the laptop's large external monitor beside the Vizio TV and
browse or post during commercials and boring dialog. That's why my
posts are sometimes poorly worded.

It's a very handy arrangement for doing taxes etc because the Vizio is
big and sharp enough to show two full pages of the .pdf instructions.

I really like having separate monitors for the application and the
operating system, or the application's control panel. The operating
system monitor can be smaller but it should be the primary one so you
don't lose control of the computer if the larger one isn't configured
right when you boot. I can switch the Vizio from HDMI to TV while its
computer is on, but it isn't always recognized when I switch back so I
have to shut off the PC by holding the power button down.

jsw

[TJ]

> G�
>
I had a little glitch with my computer display a few months ago, and in
the process of tracking it down tried switching from the DVI port of my
nVidia GeForce 6200OC video card to the VGA port. My monitor is a
Samsung P2350, a 1920x1080 LCD model. I use Mageia Linux on my computer.

I saw little, if any difference in the two displays. (The glitch turned
out to be a loose cable connection. Properly installed cables showed no
difference.) Mageia reported that it was displaying at 1920x1080 with
each cable, and I have no reason to disbelieve that. They looked identical.

So my guess is that observable VGA vs. DVI performance depends more on
the video hardware of the computer and display than on the VGA/DVI
standards.

YMMV, of course.

TJ

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Sal M. O'Nella:

>PIP is grossly overrated for average viewers,

Your assertion is supported by the sales people I've spoken with.

My question was: "Why are such essential functions as PIP and
dual tuners missing from all but the highest-end TVs?"

The answers boiled down to: "So few people want them that it's
not worthwhile."

Diff'rn't strokes, I guess. For me, PIP boils down to
commercial avoidance while watching the few shows that I actually
watch in real time. ABC Evening News in one pane, DVR'd PBS
News Hour in the other. Commercial comes on ABC, flip to PBS
and hit Resume. Commercial ends on ABC, Pause PBS and flip back
to ABC.

I consider commercials tb a significant form of mind pollution -
and, having limited grey matter to begin with, I try to avoid
that.

And don't even get me started on *political* commercials... I
think the country would be significantly better off if
entertainers like Jay Leno would start making fun of people who
actually view those things.

--
Pete Cresswell

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, June 13th, 2012, at 09:16:13h -0400, Pete Cresswell wrote:

> And don't even get me started on *political* commercials...

They may have bad content, but I would suggest that particularly
in times of economic recession, they are vital to keeping some
commercial TV stations afloat.

[Ant]

On 6/12/2012 10:45 AM PT, GMAN typed:

>>> The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.
>>
>> Aren't VGA always poor since it's old? I am not expecting to be awesome.
>> Even my old 19" Samsung LCD monitor for VGA isn't great through the old
>> KVM, but it is manageable.
> Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p

Aren't all big HDTVs 1080p these days?
--
"Ah. Those club kids did eat those ants up like popcorn." --CSI: Miami
(Wannabe episode; #218)

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per J G Miller:

>> And don't even get me started on *political* commercials...
>
>They may have bad content, but I would suggest that particularly
>in times of economic recession, they are vital to keeping some
>commercial TV stations afloat.

Just last nite, I was wondering about the future of TV in
general.

Judging by the increased frequency/length of it's fund raising
efforts, Philadelphia's PBS seems tb on it's last legs.

Commercial TV, AFIK, is built on the advertising revenue model
and it seems like more and more people are DVR'ing and just fast
forwarding commercials. In fact, I recently read about a
conflict between TV interests and somebody, somewhere that was
providing DVRs with built-in commercial identification/skipping.

Seems like the end is in sight for the current business model.

Pay-per-view? Commercials with enough entertainment value that
they get watched? Back to the old cable subscription model where
the user's monthly fee makes up for no commercials?
--
Pete Cresswell

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, June 13th, 2012, at 11:15:01h -0400,
Peter Cresswell observed:

> Judging by the increased frequency/length of it's fund raising
> efforts, Philadelphia's PBS seems tb on it's last legs.

WHYY-TV is actually licensed to Wilmington, DE, although its
major audience as you note is in fact Philadelphia, PA.

Perhaps people are reluctant to support WHYY because
of where the money is going?

QUOTE

In 2007 ... station CEO Bill Marrazzo was cited by the
watchdog group Charity Navigator as the highest paid CEO
in all of public broadcasting.

UNQUOTE

From <http://www.broadstreetreview.COM/main/article/bill_marrazzos_whyy_pay_package/>

QUOTE

They say he makes more than anyone in public broadcasting
while delivering much less.

UNQUOTE

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:15:01 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

>Per J G Miller:
>>> And don't even get me started on *political* commercials...
>>
>>They may have bad content, but I would suggest that particularly
>>in times of economic recession, they are vital to keeping some
>>commercial TV stations afloat.
>
>Just last nite, I was wondering about the future of TV in
>general.
>
>Judging by the increased frequency/length of it's fund raising
>efforts, Philadelphia's PBS seems tb on it's last legs.

Same here in Phoenix. What is troubling is that the only time PBS has
content worth watching is during the "gimme" weeks :-(

I watch The History Channel far more than PBS, and Showtime and HBO
excel at historical stuff.

>
>Commercial TV, AFIK, is built on the advertising revenue model
>and it seems like more and more people are DVR'ing and just fast
>forwarding commercials. In fact, I recently read about a
>conflict between TV interests and somebody, somewhere that was
>providing DVRs with built-in commercial identification/skipping.
>
>Seems like the end is in sight for the current business model.
>
>Pay-per-view? Commercials with enough entertainment value that
>they get watched? Back to the old cable subscription model where
>the user's monthly fee makes up for no commercials?

We watch primarily the "paid-tier" channels... and watch the "public"
channels only to catch the local news.

DVR's are the best invention since dishwashers ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[clover]

My experience the same. Our first 1080 was a tunerless, 42"
Westinghouse, some 7+(?) years ago. I bought it prior to having a video
card with digital a/v outputs. I connected it via 18' VGA to a PC and 6'
component to a cableco DVR which recorded and played HDTV. I could not
make a comparison until a year+ later after replacing the aged PC. The
new PC, equipped with an LG BD/HDDVD drive, offered HDMI output.
Because the Westy was not HDCP compliant, we played BD/HD discs via VGA
for a few months. The bulky VGA and component cables and the
availability of Any-DVD to overcome HDCP, convinced me to switch to
digital cables. Still, not a side-by-side comparison but long enough
viewing both types to feel comfortable saying: there was no PQ
difference on that set of hardware.

[clover]

I have zero tolerance for commercials as well as extreme reluctance to
reach for a remote. Everything I watch is recorded and has been edited
for elements I don't care to FF through. As a result, I watch no 'live'
TV. News on the mostly commercial free internet, courtesy of
Proxomitron, is as current, if not more so, than TV - plus it's truly
international which somewhat levels the politically and socially biased
playing field called news reporting. A subscription to a proxy service,
which gives me a presence in other nations of interest, enhances this
sort of browsing. Oh! You probably watch 'sports' on TV and, of course,
they must be watched live. While I have no use for PIP in the way you
use it, being able to window the video picture so that web pages can be
browsed on the same screen has a use;-)

[Stephen]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:51:06 -0700 (PDT), G-squared
<stra...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jun 12, 3:58�am, "Jim Wilkins" <muratla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Any of the ones that have the inputs you need.
> >
> > The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.
> >
> > jsw
>
>Absolutely. DVI-D / HDMI can greatly outperform VGA. Can VGA even go
>to 1920x1080 ?

Yes

I am feeding VGA into a Samsung 22" 1080p monitor + a TV monitor
version.

DVI isnt much different in quality (but a lot depends on having a
good, short VGA cable)
- only difference I have noticed is some PC "HD movie" apps need DVI
to give proper HD - but that might some crippling in the software to
limit copy quality.

If you tweak the sizes and clock frequency on the
>monitor it can come close but try the Nokia monitor test and look at
>the vertical lines alternating pixels. With digital it will be
>absolutely clean. With VGA you'll see horizontal noise streaks. You're
>seeing aliasing in video.
>

>G�
--
Regards

stephe...@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per J G Miller:

>
> They say he makes more than anyone in public broadcasting
> while delivering much less.

I don't know enough to compare.

But he delivers Charlie Rose and PBS News Hour - which make the
network news programs look like the moronic pap that they are.

And then he delivers American Experience, American Masters, Bill
Moyers' Journal, Frontline, Global Voices, Masterpiece Classic,
Nova, P.O.V, Tavis Smiley, Washingtron Week, and enough others
that I have the luxury of not even knowing who Kim Kardashian
*is*, much less what she did yesterday.... so I give money to PBS
gladly.

--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per clover:

>As a result, I watch no 'live'
>TV. News on the mostly commercial free internet, courtesy of
>Proxomitron, is as current, if not more so, than TV - plus it's truly
>international which somewhat levels the politically and socially biased
>playing field called news reporting.

I saw an interview with Richard Armitage (foreign policy advisor,
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense to Reagan, foreign policy
advisor and Deputy Secretary of State to Bush 42 - not Richard
Armitage-the-actor) in which he was asked which news programs he
watched.

His reply was something like "Deutsche Welle, France24,
Al-Jazeera, (and others, but no USA programs).

The interviewer then asked "Why not any USA news programs?"

His reply was something like "I don't really care what Paris
Hilton did today."
--
Pete Cresswell

[Patty Winter]

In article <becit75ubvsnslsr5...@4ax.com>,

(PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>
>I saw an interview with Richard Armitage (foreign policy advisor,
>Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense to Reagan, foreign policy
>advisor and Deputy Secretary of State to Bush 42 - not Richard
>Armitage-the-actor)

Hah! I'm just watching season 9 of "MI-5." Very tense scenes with
Armitage. Don't tell me what happens!

>in which he was asked which news programs he
>watched.
>
>His reply was something like "Deutsche Welle, France24,
>Al-Jazeera, (and others, but no USA programs).
>
>The interviewer then asked "Why not any USA news programs?"
>
>His reply was something like "I don't really care what Paris
>Hilton did today."

Absolutely. I'm so glad that Comcast finally added BBC World
News. We have a local stations that carry selected newscasts
from DW, AJE, and other overseas news channels, and AJE is
available 24 hours a day on the web. Oh sure, BBCWN covers
things like royal weddings and the recent jubilee celebrations,
but the rest of the time, they do hard news, not celebrity gossip.


Patty

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, June 13th, 2012, at 20:33:46h -0400,
Pete Cresswell explained:

> so I give money to PBS gladly.

So you do not give money to WHYY then, because you donate
directly to PBS?

[Ant]

On 6/13/2012 12:46 PM PT, Stephen typed:

> DVI isnt much different in quality (but a lot depends on having a
> good, short VGA cable)

How long without losing quality? I noticed my KVMs lose quality. I
assume it is their long Belkin cables. These old KVMs (VGA and PS/2
ports) and cables were from Y2K. They're Belkin brands too. I also have
to use 70Hz for the clearest image. :(

> - only difference I have noticed is some PC "HD movie" apps need DVI
> to give proper HD - but that might some crippling in the software to
> limit copy quality.

Are those the annoying digital movies from discs? I never bothered with
those because of their lame restricted DRMs.
--
"The greatest enemies of ants are other ants, just as the greatest
enemies of men are other men." --Auguste Forel

[R. Mark Clayton]

"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
news:4fd95823$0$86806$742e...@news.sonic.net...

[R. Mark Clayton]

"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
news:4fd95823$0$86806$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>

Over this side of the pond we get quite a selection including Russia Today,
CNN, Bloomberg, Chinese and Japanese news. During the Libyan crisis I
watched a lot of Al-Jazeera. The BBC, RT, DW, F24 etc. are likely to carry
some national news, but at least they try and carry international coverage.

I used to watch CNN, and recall back in 1991 watching the US President's
spokesman announce the start of the Gulf war at exactly the time I had
predicted*. International coverage used to be good, rivalling Sky, ITN and
the BBC, however ITN has gone, Sky is now poor and CNN is pretty much just
US news now. I have seen some Fox "News", but it scarcely merits the
appellation.


* 01:00 on 17/1/91, however this was only because I was in Belgium (on CET)
not the UK (on GMT).

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, June 14th, 2012, at 13:49:20h +0100, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

> Over this side of the pond we get quite a selection including Russia Today,
> CNN, Bloomberg, Chinese and Japanese news.

It is important to note that CNN in Europe is "CNN International" which
is a different station to CNN [USA], rather like the difference between
BBC World News and BBC News.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per J G Miller:

>
>
>So you do not give money to WHYY then, because you donate
>directly to PBS?

Mea Culpa. We give to WHYY.
--
Pete Cresswell

[R. Mark Clayton]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jrcq7s$41o$1...@dont-email.me...

> On Thursday, June 14th, 2012, at 13:49:20h +0100, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>
>> Over this side of the pond we get quite a selection including Russia
>> Today,
>> CNN, Bloomberg, Chinese and Japanese news.
>
> It is important to note that CNN in Europe is "CNN International"

You could have fooled me.

> which
> is a different station to CNN [USA], rather like the difference between
> BBC World News and BBC News.

Ah yes forgot about that...

[Patty Winter]

I think CNN carries CNNI in the U.S. for a few hours overnight, but
I don't watch CNN much so I'm not sure of the exact schedule. RT is
carried fulltime now by Comcast in my area.


Patty

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:EKydnWNFlINdQETS...@bt.com...

< snip >

> ... During the Libyan crisis I watched a lot of Al-Jazeera. The BBC, RT,

> DW, F24 etc. are likely to carry some national news, but at least they try
> and carry international coverage.

Isn't there a pro-Arab/ pro-Muslim bias to Al-Jazeera? Lord knows, so much
of the rest of the world's media are tainted by their biases. How would
Al-Jazeera escape?

"SaL"

[clover]

I remember [sic] "Bill Moyers' Journal" and was glad to see his return
in "Moyers & Company." Slanted, generally in the same way I lean, as a
result usually very watchable. Frontline tends toward sensationalizing
that which isn't - my main complaint with Nat Geo and just about all
Discover shows. As far as I know, all the 'Masterpiece' stuff is Brit
and usually up to their snuff, but I'm not up on how much the PBS dollar
influences the Brit quality. Are you? Tavis can be oh so ho hum, and
while I've enjoyed some of his interviews, not worth wading through the
rest of the tedium to get there. Hey, I'll bet you noticed Gwen Ifill's
new eye-filling look, eh? Getting to be quite the chick! Look out Oprah;-)
WTF is "Kim Kardashian" ?

[GMAN]

In article <744ht7ts4vlq1pdmn...@4ax.com>, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>Per Sal M. O'Nella:
>>PIP is grossly overrated for average viewers,
>
>Your assertion is supported by the sales people I've spoken with.
>
>My question was: "Why are such essential functions as PIP and
>dual tuners missing from all but the highest-end TVs?"
>

I am still pissed off that noone puts S-video in any tv anymore.

[GMAN]

In article <i4qdnWkMHuBZNEXS...@earthlink.com>, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>On 6/12/2012 10:45 AM PT, GMAN typed:
>
>>>> The picture quality on my Vizio was poor with VGA.
>>>
>>> Aren't VGA always poor since it's old? I am not expecting to be awesome.
>>> Even my old 19" Samsung LCD monitor for VGA isn't great through the old
>>> KVM, but it is manageable.
>> Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p
>
>Aren't all big HDTVs 1080p these days?

Surprisingly NOT.

[clover]

I missed that. It must have been on an American News channel;-0)

BTW, some decades ago I lived in Washington State for a few years,
within TV reception range of Vancouver. One of those years was an
Olympics year, though I no longer recall whether winter or summer.
Prior to that, I had no idea that non-Americans were allowed to
participate in the Olympics. Oh yeah, it must have been winter, as I'm
sure that's where I first saw Curling as an event. Bowling on ice!!!
What a great idea;-) Sadly, I'm more the shuffle board type now-a-days.

[Patty Winter]

In article <jobit7h2pnnippos7...@4ax.com>,
(PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>Per J G Miller:

[re: Bill Marrazzo of WHYY]

>> They say he makes more than anyone in public broadcasting
>> while delivering much less.
>
>I don't know enough to compare.
>
>But he delivers Charlie Rose and PBS News Hour - which make the
>network news programs look like the moronic pap that they are.
>
>And then he delivers American Experience, American Masters, Bill
>Moyers' Journal, Frontline, Global Voices, Masterpiece Classic,
>Nova, P.O.V, Tavis Smiley, Washingtron Week, and enough others

How does he "deliver" them? I'll bet WHYY was carrying all of
those programs before Marrazzo came on board. Well, at least
the ones that were in existence 15 years ago. WHYY produces
none of them. In fact, the only show I've heard of that they
do produce is on radio: Fresh Air.

Sure, it takes money to purchase those programs, but I wouldn't
credit the president of the station for raising all the money
needed to deliver them.


Patty

[Ant]

On 6/14/2012 11:21 PM PT, GMAN typed:

>>> Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p
>>
>> Aren't all big HDTVs 1080p these days?
>
> Surprisingly NOT.

Wow. I didn't know that! I will keep that in mind. :(
--
"If I want to be a robber, I rob the king's treasury. If I want to be a
hunter, I hunt the rhino. What is the use of robbing beggars and hunting
ants? So if you want to love, love God." --Swami Vivekananda

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, June 14th, 2012, at 16:31:59h -0700, Sal M. O'Nella wrote:

> Isn't there a pro-Arab/ pro-Muslim bias to Al-Jazeera?

Yes.

Every broadcaster, news organisation, and newspaper is biased
in some way or other.

[J G Miller]

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 06:28:41h +0000, Patty Winter asked:

> How does he "deliver" them?

When the WHYY-TV program schedulers draw up the schedule
and include theses shows, he gives his executive seal of approval.

He could always say "no more NOVA, we will have reruns of The Lawrence
Welk Show instead because they are much cheaper ;)

[Gene E. Bloch]

And better!

No, I'm just joking (and wasting bandwidth).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[Stephen]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:08:44 -0700, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 6/13/2012 12:46 PM PT, Stephen typed:
>
>> DVI isnt much different in quality (but a lot depends on having a
>> good, short VGA cable)
>
>How long without losing quality?

It is analog so I suspect it depends on your setup and the cable....

There seems to be a lot of difference between cables - just the
wieght of cable varies a lot between brands (amount of copper +
sheilding?)

I noticed my KVMs lose quality. I
>assume it is their long Belkin cables. These old KVMs (VGA and PS/2
>ports) and cables were from Y2K. They're Belkin brands too. I also have
>to use 70Hz for the clearest image. :(

the 70 Hz will make the issue worse, since increasing the frame rate
boosts the frequencies. Try turning down the frequency and see if the
distortion gets better.

>
>
>> - only difference I have noticed is some PC "HD movie" apps need DVI
>> to give proper HD - but that might some crippling in the software to
>> limit copy quality.
>
>Are those the annoying digital movies from discs? I never bothered with
>those because of their lame restricted DRMs.
--

[Ant]

On 6/16/2012 4:25 AM PT, Stephen typed:

>> I noticed my KVMs lose quality. I
>> assume it is their long Belkin cables. These old KVMs (VGA and PS/2
>> ports) and cables were from Y2K. They're Belkin brands too. I also have
>> to use 70Hz for the clearest image. :(
>
> the 70 Hz will make the issue worse, since increasing the frame rate
> boosts the frequencies. Try turning down the frequency and see if the
> distortion gets better.

60 = Blurry
70 = Clear
75 = Blurry

:(
--
"At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants
said: 'O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts
crush you (under foot) without knowing it.'" --Surah 27. The Ant, The
Ants, line 18

[TJ]

On 06/14/2012 08:08 AM, Ant wrote:
> On 6/13/2012 12:46 PM PT, Stephen typed:
>
>> DVI isnt much different in quality (but a lot depends on having a
>> good, short VGA cable)
>
> How long without losing quality? I noticed my KVMs lose quality. I
> assume it is their long Belkin cables. These old KVMs (VGA and PS/2
> ports) and cables were from Y2K. They're Belkin brands too. I also have
> to use 70Hz for the clearest image. :(
>

You have to consider the difference between a CRT and an LCVD display.
The CRT is analog, and the higher frequency is often needed to reduce
flicker. LCD displays are digital, and have no flicker. So you can
reduce the frequency to 60Hz with no problem.

Just my opinion here, with no knowledge to back it up, but I believe
that with a digital display like an LCD monitor or an HDTV, a VGA input
is converted to digital internally before being displayed. That means
the quality of your display would depend on the quality of the converter
as much as on the cables.

>
>> - only difference I have noticed is some PC "HD movie" apps need DVI
>> to give proper HD - but that might some crippling in the software to
>> limit copy quality.
>
> Are those the annoying digital movies from discs? I never bothered with
> those because of their lame restricted DRMs.

Try downloading and installing the open-source VLC, a multi-platform
video player. It should help.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc

TJ

[Ant]

The last time I tried that was with X-Men: First Class movie's digital
copy and that didn't worked. The only way to play is to install its DRM
software to play it which I refused. DRM sucks! :(
--
"I once heard the survivors of a colony of ants that had been partially
obliterated by a cow's foot seriously debating the intention of the gods
towards their civilization" --Archy the Cockroach from Don Marquis'
"Archy and Mehitabel" book ("Certain Maxims of Archy" poem)

[R. Mark Clayton]

"Sal M. O'Nella" <sob...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jrds8v$634$1...@dont-email.me...

>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:EKydnWNFlINdQETS...@bt.com...
>
> < snip >
>
>> ... During the Libyan crisis I watched a lot of Al-Jazeera. The BBC, RT,
>> DW, F24 etc. are likely to carry some national news, but at least they
>> try and carry international coverage.
>
> Isn't there a pro-Arab/ pro-Muslim bias to Al-Jazeera?

NSS - based in an Arab, Muslim country with its primary output in Arabic.

By contrast the BBC had a military march past the UK head of state
prominently on its news yesterday, and long pieces at St. Paul's,
Westminster, Mansion House, the Mall, the Thames and Buckingham Palace*.

> Lord knows,

No bias in your point of view then?

> so much of the rest of the world's media are tainted by their biases. How
> would Al-Jazeera escape?
>

It doesn't, but you get what it says on the tin. More reassuringly many
Arab regimes ban its reporters (or did until they fell).

> "SaL"
>
>


* and this is just the warm up act for the Olympics!

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per clover:

>WTF is "Kim Kardashian" ?

Exactly!.... I have no clue....

And that's one of the benefits of paying attention to what goes
in to what's left of my brain via TV.

But I bet if Jay Lennon asked 100 people on one of his
"JayWalking" sessions where he gets moronic replies to questions
you'd think anybody would know the answer to, I bet 99 of them
would know.
--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Sal M. O'Nella:

>Isn't there a pro-Arab/ pro-Muslim bias to Al-Jazeera? Lord knows, so much
>of the rest of the world's media are tainted by their biases.

I would agree 100% and raise you one: *All of the world's media
are tainted by their biases. Even sources that try their best
tb non-biased cannot escape bias. Bias is also, in part,
relevant to the beholder.... so the problem becomes even more
irascible.

Bias is one consideration and it's important to have an idea
where a source's biases lie - so, if one is interested, they can
watch the presentation of a given topic on another source with a
different bias.

But if anybody is using one source - whether it's Rush Limbaugh
or Air America or even the Christian Science Monitor - and taking
it as anything but biased, they really, *really*, REALLY need to
review the kind of information source(s) they are allowing to
populate their mind.

But, of course, they won't - and "the echo chamber" has become
one of the recognized sources of the mess we are in.

Back in the sixties, when I was mashing baggage and cleaning
aircraft at the Honolulu International Airport I was reading
something like a half-dozen newspapers every day.... like the LA
Times, San Francisco Tribune, New York Times, Rocky Mountain
Times, Honolulu Advertiser, and at least one more I can't recall.

The differences in their accounts of a given event was a
revelation to a young college student.

Before that, my Bucknell roommate and I drove to Florida over
spring break and witnessed the so-called student "riots" first
hand. (there weren't any... just thousands of college kids who
had suddenly been ordered off the beach after dark, milling
around wondering what to do.... and a few hundred deputized
rednecks beating them up here and there)

The decreasing factuality and increasing luridness of the
coverage as we drove back North was my first eye-opener as far as
"news" is concerned.

How much air time a station/show dedicates to the moronic at the
expense of the relevant is another consideration - and I think
that's the focus of the Al-Jazeera/DeutcheWelt/France24 anecdote.

Another is the factual quality of on-air dialog. Some weeks
back, Diane Sawyer said something like "And here's President
Obama taking a leisurely walk in the White House garden." The
accompanying video showed the president walking noticeably fast,
with apparent focus and purpose - getting from point A to point B
as fast as he could on foot without running. It wasn't
leisurely, not even close.

Couple nights back the same show (ABC Nightly News) did a little
thing on bees. When they got to a bee keeper and some hives,
they talked about "A hive".... where the video showed about a
half-dozen.

Way back after Katrina, one of the major network's star reporters
was on the scene when this huge twin-rotor Chinook cargo
helicopter was landing. He described it as a "Huey". Maybe
the distinction could be argued tb moot for otherwise-informed
people... but this guy was not just a pro, he a pro at the top of
his field.

Yeah, maybe that sounds like a crabby old man's bitching... but
this is important stuff and those are supposed to be
highly-intelligent, highly-skilled professionals. If they can't
get patently-obvious details that can be verified by just
watching the video footage they're claiming to describe right,
what can one hope for on the rest of the story?
--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per clover:

>BTW, some decades ago I lived in Washington State for a few years,
>within TV reception range of Vancouver. One of those years was an
>Olympics year, though I no longer recall whether winter or summer.
>Prior to that, I had no idea that non-Americans were allowed to
>participate in the Olympics. Oh yeah, it must have been winter, as I'm
>sure that's where I first saw Curling as an event. Bowling on ice!!!
>What a great idea;-)

My own revelation courtesy of Canadian TV (when we used to
vacation up on the boarder) was that TV personalities can
actually have receding hair lines or (gasp!) be mostly bald.

When I lived in Hawaii for about nine years, I spent most of it
not watching any TV at all. Nothing conscious... just too much
stuff to do and no TVs around.

Toward the end, Lum's Deli opened up a shop on the edge of the
University of Hawaii campus and I wandered in one day and sat
down at the bar to order a beer and a sandwich. They had the
now-ubiquitous TV mounted up on the wall and I just sat there
transfixed for what seemed like an hour.

If you've never experienced it, it's hard to describe - but I
would say that the people we see on TV are every bit as stylized
and unreal as Kabuki actors. I'm used to it now - totally
desensitized... but can't forget that day.
--
Pete Cresswell

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per (PeteCresswell):
>vacation up on the boarder

Oops!.. Shb "border"...
----------------------------------------
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
----------------------------------------


--
Pete Cresswell

[George Kerby]

On 6/17/12 7:41 PM, in article s3ust7ld35i73l4hv...@4ax.com,

Who is "Jay Lennon" is what I want to know...

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per George Kerby:

>Who is "Jay Lennon" is what I want to know...

Oops.... see how out of touch I am..... -)

I think the spell checker got me on that one...
--
Pete Cresswell

[TJ]

On 06/18/2012 11:35 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per George Kerby:
>> Who is "Jay Lennon" is what I want to know...
>
> Oops.... see how out of touch I am..... -)
>
> I think the spell checker got me on that one...
>

That excuse doesn't work more than once.

TJ

[TJ]

On 06/15/2012 05:58 AM, Ant wrote:
> On 6/14/2012 11:21 PM PT, GMAN typed:
>
>>>> Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p
>>>
>>> Aren't all big HDTVs 1080p these days?
>>
>> Surprisingly NOT.
>
> Wow. I didn't know that! I will keep that in mind. :(

Suggestion: Look at the specs BEFORE you purchase.

TJ

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"TJ" <T...@noneofyour.business> wrote in message
news:jrnkmm$co2$2...@dont-email.me...

720 is still HD and it's quite good. ABC and Fox use 720p. I don't watch a
lot of TV, being more involved in the technical end of it, but I can assure
you from watching all the episodes of Desperate Housewives" on ABC, it is
very fine HDTV. Don't be scared away from 720 if you can get a good deal.

Maybe I need to add something: My TV's "native resolution" is 1920 x 1080,
so a 720p signal is scaled up. While this means there's some trickery
involved, the finished product is just lovely -- especially Marcia Cross.

"Sal"

[Daniel who wants to know]

"Sal M. O'Nella" <sob...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:jropm5$cv7$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>
>
> 720 is still HD and it's quite good. ABC and Fox use 720p. I don't watch
> a lot of TV, being more involved in the technical end of it, but I can
> assure you from watching all the episodes of Desperate Housewives" on ABC,
> it is very fine HDTV. Don't be scared away from 720 if you can get a good
> deal.
>
> Maybe I need to add something: My TV's "native resolution" is 1920 x
> 1080, so a 720p signal is scaled up. While this means there's some
> trickery involved, the finished product is just lovely -- especially
> Marcia Cross.
>
> "Sal"
>
>

True, I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't shy away from a 720p
set if it is actually 720, unfortunately most are actually 1366x768 for LCD
and 1024x768 for plasma, and I personally wouldn't want a 768 res set if it
were free, I would rather buy a 1080, and I have proven this by not taking
either of the 2 Polaroid branded 32" ones (one with a built-in DVD player) I
was given for free DOA that I fixed the power supplies on, my parents have
them.

[GMAN]

In article <jropm5$cv7$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sal M. O'Nella" <sob...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>"TJ" <T...@noneofyour.business> wrote in message
>news:jrnkmm$co2$2...@dont-email.me...
>> On 06/15/2012 05:58 AM, Ant wrote:
>>> On 6/14/2012 11:21 PM PT, GMAN typed:
>>>
>>>>>> Make sure to buy a TV thats 1080p
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't all big HDTVs 1080p these days?
>>>>
>>>> Surprisingly NOT.
>>>
>>> Wow. I didn't know that! I will keep that in mind. :(
>>
>> Suggestion: Look at the specs BEFORE you purchase.
>
>
>720 is still HD and it's quite good. ABC and Fox use 720p. I don't watch a
>lot of TV, being more involved in the technical end of it, but I can assure
>you from watching all the episodes of Desperate Housewives" on ABC, it is
>very fine HDTV. Don't be scared away from 720 if you can get a good deal.

But why settle for 720 though when 98% of the TV's now are 1080i or p?

>
>Maybe I need to add something: My TV's "native resolution" is 1920 x 1080,
>so a 720p signal is scaled up. While this means there's some trickery
>involved, the finished product is just lovely -- especially Marcia Cross.
>
>"Sal"
>
>

Yeah, she is hot. I love readheads.

[J G Miller]

On Tuesday, June 19th, 2012, at 15:39:54h +0000, GMAN asked:

> But why settle for 720 though when 98% of the TV's now are 1080i or p?

Especially if you intend viewing any 1080p Blu Ray discs or 1080p video files,
or even connecting up your PC or laptop.

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"GMAN" <Winnie...@100acrewoods.net> wrote in message
news:i31Er.294630$zA2....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...

I love readheads.
>

Ditto
ditto
ditto

[Sal M. O'Nella]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jrq8vp$8k7$1...@dont-email.me...

I have a 52-inch Sony Bravoa 1080p and we play Blu-rays through it.
Marvelous! But there's more.

I mentioned this one other time in here: Some DVDs come out much better on
my setup than I have a right to expect. Specifically, I played a series
from HBO, entitled "Carnivale," which was released on DVD. It was *not* a
Blu-ray but it appeared, even from a few feet away, to be in HD.

I played a few other DVDs and they didn't look as good as "Carnivale" did.
This bears further investigation. Perhaps some DVDs mastered from an HD
video source can contain more information. In general, I'm "up to speed" on
technical matters but I know almost nothing about how DVDs are made or the
up-scaling magic the machines can work.

"Sal"

[J G Miller]

On Tuesday, June 19th, 2012, at 13:37:24h -0700, Sal M. O'Nella wrote:

> I played a few other DVDs and they didn't look as good as "Carnivale" did.
> This bears further investigation. Perhaps some DVDs mastered from an HD
> video source can contain more information.

Or that there is a better signal to noise ratio so there is
effectively more information.

Clearly, a DVD mastered from a high quality source is going to look
better when it is upscaled than a poor quality sourced DVD.

And remember the resolution on DVDs can be different eg

DVD NTSC DVD MPEG -2 720 x 480 29.97 6000 224
DVD PAL DVD MPEG -2 720 x 576 25 6000 224

Also more modern MPEG-2 encoders are going to produce a better
quality image than those used say 10 years ago, because of the
improvements in the efficiency of the software.

Obviously if you look closely at an upscaled DVD picture and
an original 1080p source picture, there will be finer detail
present on the latter which will just not be there on the former.

And since 1080p material can, as is the case for all digital video,
to processing effects, it is even possible in an extreme case
for a 1080p product to be soft focus blurred and have less
actual detail than a top quality lower resolution DVD.

In fact you may have heard that for some TV shows, some of the
celebrity guests insist that soft focus lenses are used so that
their wrinkles and blemishes are not as apparent as they would
be on the HD 720p or 1080i screen.

[GMAN]

My tv is an LG 55" , it has upscaling to 1080P like that. Popped in the old
DVD of Raiders of The Lost last night and it looked excellent for a DVD. Even
went back and poped on the 2D to 3D conversion and popped on the glasses and
it looked cool as hell.


My LG can convert any source into 3D, not just native 3D bluray disks.