What's a good external HDD to buy these days?
Ant
What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest), and
Linux? It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between places
with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small. It doesn't
need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with
Explorer, Finder, etc.). It would be nice to not to carry its annoying
power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
Any good ones (on sales) from
http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (local retail stores)?
Thank you in advance. :)
--
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Ed Light
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iws
news:0OSdnbaSsO5C1FTX...@earthlink.com...
I have an earlier version of this Buffalo Mini
http://www.frys.com/product/5987934?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
and really like it. Not sure of its OS compatibility but certainly works on
XP/Vista and doesn't require an AC adapter.
Rod Speed
> What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
> might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest), and Linux?
I still prefer to assemble them myself to get the full warranty on the drive.
In fact I use hard drive docking stations, but thats because
I now have so many 1TB+ drives for PVR overflow.
Those arent a great idea with little kids and cats around tho or for technoklutzes.
> It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between
> places with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small.
2.5" drives are ideal for that.
> It doesn't need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with Explorer, Finder, etc.).
And you can use True Image later if you change your mind on that.
> It would be nice to not to carry its annoying power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
> from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
Its fine with 2.5" drives. The main downside with those
is that they are significantly more expensive per GB.
> Any good ones (on sales) from
> http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (local retail stores)?
Too lazy to work out which are the 2.5" drives.
Arno
> Hello.
> What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
> might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest), and
> Linux?
Basically any eSATA/USB drive will work. eSATA vs. USB is a speed
issue and whether eSATA supports hotplug depends on your computer.
The rest is a case/disk quality question, with the disk quality
not being different because it is external.
> It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between places
> with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small. It doesn't
> need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with
> Explorer, Finder, etc.). It would be nice to not to carry its annoying
> power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
> from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
Power from USB is basically the only option for not having
to carry a power adapter. The problem here is that not all
USB ports provide enough power and even then some disks require
more that a high-power (0.5A) USB port supplies, which can
(but need not) cause problems.
> Any good ones (on sales) from
> http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml
> (local retail stores)?
Looking what is on sale is probably not the right approach if
you are looking for high quality. There are my criteria:
- Stay away from offers that do not give the disk type and
model inside.
- Stay away from disks with more than 0.5A (2.5W) startup rating
if you want to do wothout power adapter.
- Try to get something with real padding on the outside
or something were you are sure there is real padding on
the inside. These _will_ be thicker and heavier.
Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
on practically every USB port.
Arno
Ant
> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
> on practically every USB port.
Thanks Arno. Aren't Flash drives really expensive and limited with disk
sizes (only have seen 64 GB and really expensive)?
--
"As I watch the busy ants on the trail and around the ant pile, I am
impressed by the fact that they are doers and not just believers." --CR 1967
Ant
> Ant wrote
>
>> What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
>> might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest), and Linux?
>
> I still prefer to assemble them myself to get the full warranty on the drive.
Is it still five years warranty and only with Seagate? I have been out
of HDD area lately. I recalled Seagate dropped its five years warranty? :(
> In fact I use hard drive docking stations, but thats because
> I now have so many 1TB+ drives for PVR overflow.
Is that the enclosure case types or something else? I am curious about
this one. Got any examples online?
> Those arent a great idea with little kids and cats around tho or for technoklutzes.
None for me, but nice to have if useful to do backups, restoring, moving
drives, etc. ;)
>> It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between
>> places with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small.
>
> 2.5" drives are ideal for that.
Yeah, I have this heavy Kingston case with a Seagagte IDE HDD inside. It
is an annoying to get all its cables to unplug, carry, replug, etc. And
it's heavy and annoying when taking it (not so portable to me)! It's
fine for not moving around!
>> It doesn't need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with Explorer, Finder, etc.).
>
> And you can use True Image later if you change your mind on that.
Yeah or whatever imaging programs. I use Ghost.
>> It would be nice to not to carry its annoying power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
>> from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
>
> Its fine with 2.5" drives. The main downside with those
> is that they are significantly more expensive per GB.
That, I noticed. I'd love to get a SSD but still too expensive and don't
think it will work well with older Windows and computers. :(
--
"Applied mathematics will always need pure mathematics, just as
anteaters will always need ants." --Paul Halmos
Ant
> | What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
> | might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest), and
> | Linux? It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between places
> | with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small. It doesn't
> | need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with
> | Explorer, Finder, etc.). It would be nice to not to carry its annoying
> | power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
> | from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
> |
> | Any good ones (on sales) from
> | http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (local retail
> stores)?
>
> I have an earlier version of this Buffalo Mini
> http://www.frys.com/product/5987934?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> and really like it. Not sure of its OS compatibility but certainly works on
> XP/Vista and doesn't require an AC adapter.
Wow, $59.99 sale vs. regular $104.99. Probably all gone by now though
("Cannot connect to the store." for store locations right now). :( OS
support said "Windows Vista�, Windows�XP, Windows�2000, MacOS� X 10.4 or
later".
I am not sure if I want this one since USB power usage from what I read.
I will probably get one with AC adapter.
--
"The Hunam Tiger ant has been known to consume an entire meal before the
picnic guest arrive." --12th century Tang Dynasty proverb.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4
>>> (9x might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest),
>>> and Linux?
>> I still prefer to assemble them myself to get the full warranty on the drive.
> Is it still five years warranty and only with Seagate?
Nar, some Samsungs have 5 years too.
> I have been out of HDD area lately.
> I recalled Seagate dropped its five years warranty? :(
Not entirely.
>> In fact I use hard drive docking stations, but thats because
>> I now have so many 1TB+ drives for PVR overflow.
> Is that the enclosure case types or something else?
Its something else. The drive is bare and drops into the docking station like an SD card but bigger.
> I am curious about this one.
Dont forget what that did to the cat.
> Got any examples online?
>> Those arent a great idea with little kids and cats around tho or for technoklutzes.
> None for me,
Arent you a cripple or something like that ?
> but nice to have if useful to do backups, restoring, moving drives, etc. ;)
>>> It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between
>>> places with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small.
>> 2.5" drives are ideal for that.
> Yeah, I have this heavy Kingston case with a Seagagte IDE HDD inside.
> It is an annoying to get all its cables to unplug, carry, replug, etc. And it's heavy and annoying when taking it (not
> so portable to
> me)! It's fine for not moving around!
Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
>>> It doesn't need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually with Explorer, Finder, etc.).
>> And you can use True Image later if you change your mind on that.
> Yeah or whatever imaging programs. I use Ghost.
You should use TI, leaves it for dead.
>>> It would be nice to not to carry its annoying power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
>>> from USB> connections, but was told this is not good).
>> Its fine with 2.5" drives. The main downside with those
>> is that they are significantly more expensive per GB.
> That, I noticed. I'd love to get a SSD but still too expensive and
> don't think it will work well with older Windows and computers. :(
Presumably.
Ant
>> Got any examples online?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=docking+station+hard+drive
>
>>> Those arent a great idea with little kids and cats around tho or for technoklutzes.
>
>> None for me,
>
> Arent you a cripple or something like that ?
Yep, a virgin and never had a date (even blind type) either and probably
will never get one. Oh well. :(
> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others
mentioned. :( However, I have never ran into that issue before though
even with five years old PCs.
--
"Ants can carry twenty times their weight, which is useful information
if you're moving out and you need help getting a potato chip across
town." --Ron Darian
iws
| On 10/4/2009 7:19 PM PT, iws typed:
|
| > | What's a good external HDD to get these days for Windows (2000 SP4 (9x
| > | might be needed though) to the latest), Mac OS X (10.2+ to latest),
and
| > | Linux? It will mainly be for storage/backups and carrying between
places
| > | with multiple computers so I'd like it to be light and small. It
doesn't
| > | need the bundled softwares and backup feature (will do it manually
with
| > | Explorer, Finder, etc.). It would be nice to not to carry its annoying
| > | power adapter (have seen a tiny one that doesn't use one and use power
| > | from USB connections, but was told this is not good).
| > |
| > | Any good ones (on sales) from
| > | http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (local retail
| > stores)?
| >
| > I have an earlier version of this Buffalo Mini
| > http://www.frys.com/product/5987934?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
| > and really like it. Not sure of its OS compatibility but certainly works
on
| > XP/Vista and doesn't require an AC adapter.
|
| Wow, $59.99 sale vs. regular $104.99. Probably all gone by now though
That $59.95 price is suspect - here in Phoenix, the 500 GB version is on
sale for $89.95 and it was available in the Fry's store I was in on
Saturday.
| ("Cannot connect to the store." for store locations right now). :( OS
| support said "Windows Vista�, Windows�XP, Windows�2000, MacOS� X 10.4 or
| later".
|
| I am not sure if I want this one since USB power usage from what I read.
It has not been a problem for me and I've used it with various desktops of
various vintage, a laptop and a netbook.
| I will probably get one with AC adapter.
As you've found out, that's a real nuisance if you want real portability.
Arno
> On 10/4/2009 8:25 PM PT, Arno typed:
>> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
>> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
>> on practically every USB port.
> Thanks Arno. Aren't Flash drives really expensive and limited with disk
> sizes (only have seen 64 GB and really expensive)?
Not that expensive anymore, but 64GB is about the largest at the
moment. How much data do you actually want to lug around?
Arno
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Got any examples online?
>>>> Those arent a great idea with little kids and cats around tho or for technoklutzes.
>>> None for me,
>> Arent you a cripple or something like that ?
> Yep, a virgin and never had a date (even blind type) either and probably will never get one. Oh well. :(
So the docking station wouldnt be a problem ?
Probably not because you seem to be able to manage the drive bays fine.
>> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
> Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others mentioned. :(
It isnt a problem with those 2.5" external drives that have two USB cables.
The most you might need is a couple of short USB cables with thin plugs
when you have very close USB ports and thicker plugs on the cables that
come with the drive.
> However, I have never ran into that issue before though even with five years old PCs.
Its mainly a problem with laptops, not desktops.
Ant
A lot like 500 GB. 64 GB is small. :(
--
"Applied mathematics will always need pure mathematics, just as
anteaters will always need ants." --Paul Halmos
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )
Ant
> Probably not because you seem to be able to manage the drive bays fine.
Should be OK if it is like iPods, PDAs, etc. Do these docking stations
require drivers? I want to be compatible with many OS like Linux, Mac
OS X, Windows, etc.
> >> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
> > Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others mentioned. :(
> It isnt a problem with those 2.5" external drives that have two USB cables.
> The most you might need is a couple of short USB cables with thin plugs
> when you have very close USB ports and thicker plugs on the cables that
> come with the drive.
Ah two. I will keep that in mind. It will suck for netbooks that have
limited/low numbers of USB connections. Are hubs a no no for drives that
use two USB cables since hub coneects to the same port?
> > However, I have never ran into that issue before though even with five years old PCs.
> Its mainly a problem with laptops, not desktops.
Ah, that's why. So this can even if laptops are plugged in too?
--
"Applied mathematics will always need pure mathematics, just as
anteaters will always need ants." --Paul Halmos
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ed Light
> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
> on practically every USB port.
>
> Arno
I think Flash drives go bad a little easier.
Rod Speed
> Do these docking stations require drivers?
Nope.
> I want to be compatible with many OS like Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, etc.
Anything that can handle USB drives can handle them fine, they just appear
to be a USB drive where you can change the physical drive effortlessly.
>>>> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
>>> Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others mentioned. :(
>> It isnt a problem with those 2.5" external drives that have two USB cables.
>> The most you might need is a couple of short USB cables with thin
>> plugs when you have very close USB ports and thicker plugs on the
>> cables that come with the drive.
> Ah two. I will keep that in mind. It will suck for netbooks
> that have limited/low numbers of USB connections.
Yeah, but I cant think of any with just one.
> Are hubs a no no for drives that use two USB cables since hub coneects to the same port?
Nope, its fine, the second one only uses the power pins, not the data pins.
Corse the hub is just about as big as the external power wart.
>>> However, I have never ran into that issue before though even with five years old PCs.
>> Its mainly a problem with laptops, not desktops.
> Ah, that's why. So this can even if laptops are plugged in too?
Yes, works fine.
Ant
>> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
>> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
>> on practically every USB port.
>> Arno
>
> I think Flash drives go bad a little easier.
Because of the number of writes?
--
"Your parents were killed by ants?" --Idle Hands movie
Ant
>>>>> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
>
>>>> Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others mentioned. :(
>
>>> It isnt a problem with those 2.5" external drives that have two USB cables.
>
>>> The most you might need is a couple of short USB cables with thin
>>> plugs when you have very close USB ports and thicker plugs on the
>>> cables that come with the drive.
>
>> Ah two. I will keep that in mind. It will suck for netbooks
>> that have limited/low numbers of USB connections.
>
> Yeah, but I cant think of any with just one.
>
>> Are hubs a no no for drives that use two USB cables since hub coneects to the same port?
>
> Nope, its fine, the second one only uses the power pins, not the data pins.
>
> Corse the hub is just about as big as the external power wart.
Do these external 2.5" HDDs also have ESATA support and dual USB too, or
are those only found in those big enclosures and docking stations? I am
trying to which one is better.
--
"Each of us needs to withdraw from the cares which will not withdraw
from us. We need hours of aimless wandering or spates of time sitting on
park benches, observing the mysterious world of ants and the canopy of
treetops." --Maya Angelou (b. 1928) American writer and entertainer
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Robert Nichols
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
: Do these docking stations
:OS X, Windows, etc.
No problem there. They use the same USB mass storage driver that USB
flash memory devices use. You do lose the ability to perform SMART
queries on the drive, because there is no established method to pass
those commands through the USB interface. For that to work, you would
need a docking station with an eSATA interface and use that to connect
to your PC.
--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"
Robert Nichols
Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
:In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Arno <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
:> Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:
:> > On 10/4/2009 8:25 PM PT, Arno typed:
:
:> >> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
:> >> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
:> >> on practically every USB port.
:
:> > Thanks Arno. Aren't Flash drives really expensive and limited with disk
:> > sizes (only have seen 64 GB and really expensive)?
:
:> Not that expensive anymore, but 64GB is about the largest at the
:> moment. How much data do you actually want to lug around?
:
:A lot like 500 GB. 64 GB is small. :(
That's why I've been using 500GB 2.5" drives for the backups I keep in
my safe deposit box. Those laptop drives are rated for 500,000
start/stop cycles (vs. 50,000 typical for desktop drives) and are
designed to withstand higher non-operating shock -- just what I want for
drives that will spend much of their lives being started, stopped, and
carried around.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Yeah, nothing like those 2.5" external drives portability wise.
>>>>> Yeah, still need to think about the USB power issue that you and others mentioned. :(
>>>> It isnt a problem with those 2.5" external drives that have two USB cables.
>>>> The most you might need is a couple of short USB cables with thin
>>>> plugs when you have very close USB ports and thicker plugs on the
>>>> cables that come with the drive.
>>> Ah two. I will keep that in mind. It will suck for netbooks
>>> that have limited/low numbers of USB connections.
>> Yeah, but I cant think of any with just one.
>>> Are hubs a no no for drives that use two USB cables since hub
>>> coneects to the same port?
>> Nope, its fine, the second one only uses the power pins, not the data pins.
>> Corse the hub is just about as big as the external power wart.
> Do these external 2.5" HDDs also have ESATA support and dual USB too,
A tiny subset do.
Someone else said that the ones that that support sata drives take more
power than the ones that dont tho, havent measured that myself yet.
> or are those only found in those big enclosures and docking stations?
Nope. And the big enclosures and docking stations are never dual USB cable powered.
> I am trying to which one is better.
The 2.5" drives are much more portable. Even the docking
stations are much bigger than a 2.5" USB only external drive.
Rod Speed
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote
>> Do these docking stations require drivers? I want to be
>> compatible with many OS like Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, etc.
> No problem there. They use the same USB mass
> storage driver that USB flash memory devices use.
> You do lose the ability to perform SMART queries on the drive,
Nope, particularly with the ones that have eSATA.
> because there is no established method to pass
> those commands through the USB interface.
Some of the USB bridges do support that now.
Ed Light
> On 10/5/2009 5:19 PM PT, Ed Light typed:
>
>>> Anyways, maybe your money would be better spend on a USB Flash
>>> drive. They are typically in the 0.1A power class and whould work
>>> on practically every USB port.
>>> Arno
>>
>> I think Flash drives go bad a little easier.
>
> Because of the number of writes?
Because they're not physical like hard drive, I would think -- just
delicate memory cells. Some anomaly made mine unreadable. I
repartitioned it and formatted it but it was not usable.
Ed Light
> No problem there. They use the same USB mass storage driver that USB
> flash memory devices use. You do lose the ability to perform SMART
> queries on the drive
HD Sentinel gets SMART info. from my Western Digital 3 1/2" USB drive.
However, I have 2 1/2" IDE drive in a Rosewill USB enclosure, and it
can't get any SMART data from it.
Robert Nichols
Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
:Robert Nichols wrote
:> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote
:
:>> Do these docking stations require drivers? I want to be
:>> compatible with many OS like Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, etc.
:
:> No problem there. They use the same USB mass
:> storage driver that USB flash memory devices use.
:
:> You do lose the ability to perform SMART queries on the drive,
:
:Nope, particularly with the ones that have eSATA.
:
:> because there is no established method to pass
:> those commands through the USB interface.
:
:Some of the USB bridges do support that now.
Do you know if they can do that without installing a driver (presumably
Windows-only) for that particular bridge? Last I heard, there was no
standardized method of passing commands needed for SMART through a USB
bridge, leaving every manufacturer free to implement it in a different
way (and probably patent their chosen method, thus making it unlikely to
be adopted as a standard).
T'would be nice to hear that things are moving in a better direction
than that.
Rod Speed
>>>> Do these docking stations require drivers? I want to be
>>>> compatible with many OS like Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, etc.
>>> No problem there. They use the same USB mass
>>> storage driver that USB flash memory devices use.
>>> You do lose the ability to perform SMART queries on the drive,
>> Nope, particularly with the ones that have eSATA.
>>> because there is no established method to pass
>>> those commands through the USB interface.
>> Some of the USB bridges do support that now.
> Do you know if they can do that without installing a driver
> (presumably Windows-only) for that particular bridge?
Yes they can, just by passing the SMART request thru the bridge.
> Last I heard, there was no standardized method of passing
> commands needed for SMART through a USB bridge, leaving
> every manufacturer free to implement it in a different way
In practice there arent that many ways its done, so the bridge
can allow for at least the most commonly used methods.
> (and probably patent their chosen method, thus
> making it unlikely to be adopted as a standard).
I dont recall that anyone has patented any of them.
> T'would be nice to hear that things are moving in a better direction than that.
It is certainly doing that.
Ant
>> Do these external 2.5" HDDs also have ESATA support and dual USB too,
>
> A tiny subset do.
>
> Someone else said that the ones that that support sata drives take more
> power than the ones that dont tho, havent measured that myself yet.
>
>> or are those only found in those big enclosures and docking stations?
>
> Nope. And the big enclosures and docking stations are never dual USB cable powered.
>
>> I am trying to which one is better.
>
> The 2.5" drives are much more portable. Even the docking
> stations are much bigger than a 2.5" USB only external drive.
Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
rare (with ESATA)? :)
--
"Ladies and gentlemen, er, we've just lost the picture, but, uh, what
we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has been taken
over--'conquered', if you will--by a master race of giant space ants.
It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume
the captive earth men or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain,
there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one,
welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a
trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to...toil
in their underground sugar caves."--Kent Brockman in The Simpsons' Deep
Space Homer (1F13) episode.
Ed Light
> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
> rare (with ESATA)? :)
These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
Ant
>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
>> rare (with ESATA)? :)
>
> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=414&Description=&Type=&N=2010150414&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=1&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A21831&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A20386&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A28161&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A32416&PropertyCodeValue=360%3A7801
Thanks. Wow, not very many models and reviews. Are people not liking
these external 2.5" USB HDDs or something?
--
"An ant on the move does more than a dozing ox." --Mexican Proverb
Ed Light
> On 10/7/2009 12:13 PM PT, Ed Light typed:
>
>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
>>> rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>
>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=414&Description=&Type=&N=2010150414&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=1&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A21831&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A20386&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A28161&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A32416&PropertyCodeValue=360%3A7801
>
>
> Thanks. Wow, not very many models and reviews. Are people not liking
> these external 2.5" USB HDDs or something?
That listing only included the ones with e-sata.
There are tons of USB ones. I like Western Digital. But read the user
reviews.
Ant
> Ant wrote:
>> On 10/7/2009 12:13 PM PT, Ed Light typed:
>>
>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>>>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
>>>> rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>>
>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>>>
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=414&Description=&Type=&N=2010150414&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=1&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A21831&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A20386&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A28161&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A32416&PropertyCodeValue=360%3A7801
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks. Wow, not very many models and reviews. Are people not liking
>> these external 2.5" USB HDDs or something?
>
> That listing only included the ones with e-sata.
>
> There are tons of USB ones. I like Western Digital. But read the user
> reviews.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=414&Description=&Type=&N=2010150414&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=1&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A20386&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A28161&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A10504&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A32416&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A47642&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A13763&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A28610&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A38372&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A47477&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A7851&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A7839&PropertyCodeValue=359%3A15635&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A21288&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A21767&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A29074&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A21309&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A21303&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A21299&PropertyCodeValue=3102%3A24342&PropertyCodeValue=360%3A7801
Ah thanks. Much better.
Now to think about it... How many computers have eSATA? I am looking at
my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
...
Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure. Do OS'
(beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
--
"Lay a stick of bubble gum on an anthill for instant Siamese Ant Twins."
--unknown
Rod Speed
> Ed Light wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> Ed Light wrote
>>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are
>>>>> good since they are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>>> Thanks. Wow, not very many models and reviews. Are people not liking these external 2.5" USB HDDs or something?
Most dont bother with eSATA with those.
>> That listing only included the ones with e-sata.
>> There are tons of USB ones. I like Western Digital. But read the user reviews.
> Ah thanks. Much better.
> Now to think about it...
Can end in tears before bed time.
> How many computers have eSATA?
Most dont.
> I am looking at my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
> http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
It can be trivially added if it does have SATA.
> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure.
And for SMART support if you are wondering how the drive is going too.
> Do OS' (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
Most older PCs dont even have SATA support.
Ed Light
> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure. Do OS'
> (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
I'll let someone else answer that.
Ant
>> I am looking at my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
>> http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
>
> It can be trivially added if it does have SATA.
How does that work? Adapter cables? I don't know too much about computer
internal hardwares. I know my gaming Windows XP box has SATA drives
(dumped my old drives last year). I know newer machines have SATA.
Obviously older PCs still use PATA/IDE. :( At least they have USB ports,
but sometimes slow (e.g., v1)! Now, to think about about it. What about
older and newer laptops/notebooks and netbooks? I don't remember seeing
any ESATA ports in those. I do see USB and firewire (pretty much over :().
>> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
>> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure.
>
> And for SMART support if you are wondering how the drive is going too.
Nice! That would be useful when problems occur. ;)
>> Do OS' (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
>
> Most older PCs dont even have SATA support.
I was referring to computers that do have SATA support and have older
OS'. I have an old ASUS K8V SE motherboard machine that uses a SATA HDD,
and that's about five years old or more.
--
"He who cannot pick up an ant, and wants to pick up an elephant will
some day see his folly." --African
Ant
> Ant wrote:
>
>> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
>> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure. Do OS'
>> (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded
>> drivers?
>
> I'll let someone else answer that.
OK and thanks. ;) I might just drop ESATA part and go USB only for 2.5"
external HDDs to get more options and save some costs.
--
"He who cannot pick up an ant, and wants to pick up an elephant will
some day see his folly." --African
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> I am looking at my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
>>> http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
>> It can be trivially added if it does have SATA.
> How does that work? Adapter cables?
Yep.
> I don't know too much about computer internal hardwares.
Thats all it is, and a mounting bracket for the eSATA connector so its on the case.
> I know my gaming Windows XP box has SATA drives (dumped my old drives last year). I know newer machines have SATA.
> Obviously older PCs still use PATA/IDE. :(
Even still some new ones. I got the cheapest I could find quite literally
just to pay freecell for a freecell addict and it still had PATA/IDE.
> At least they have USB ports, but sometimes slow (e.g., v1)!
Yeah, and thats a significant problem with an external hard drive.
The V1s are a complete pain in the arse speed wise.
> Now, to think about about it. What about older and newer laptops/notebooks and netbooks? I don't remember seeing any
> ESATA ports in those.
Yeah, thats very rare. You can get esata cards for them tho.
> I do see USB and firewire (pretty much over :().
Yep, universal now, tho firewire isnt universal.
>>> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
>>> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure.
>> And for SMART support if you are wondering how the drive is going too.
> Nice! That would be useful when problems occur. ;)
Yep.
>>> Do OS' (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
>> Most older PCs dont even have SATA support.
> I was referring to computers that do have SATA support and have older OS'.
Those always do support SATA as legacy drives at worst.
> I have an old ASUS K8V SE motherboard machine that uses a SATA HDD, and that's about five years old or more.
Thats supported by XP and later. Supported by 98 and 2K by setting it as a legacy drive in the bios.
Older Linux isnt relevant because its free to use the latest.
Mac OS is fine too.
Rod Speed
> Ed Light wrote
>>> Since I usually work with older PCs, I don't think I would need this
>>> eSATA support at this time. Speed is nice for eSATA for sure. Do OS'
>>> (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
>> I'll let someone else answer that.
> OK and thanks. ;) I might just drop ESATA part and go USB only for 2.5" external HDDs to get more options
Thats what I do.
> and save some costs.
I dont do it for that reason.
Ant
>>>> I am looking at my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
>>>> http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
>
>>> It can be trivially added if it does have SATA.
>
>> How does that work? Adapter cables?
>
> Yep.
Ah, is that expensive and complex?
>> I don't know too much about computer internal hardwares.
>
> Thats all it is, and a mounting bracket for the eSATA connector so its on the case.
Ah. Hmm, I guess I will skip ESATA for now since it is a bit complex and
not all computers have it.
>
>> I know my gaming Windows XP box has SATA drives (dumped my old drives last year). I know newer machines have SATA.
>> Obviously older PCs still use PATA/IDE. :(
>
> Even still some new ones. I got the cheapest I could find quite literally
> just to pay freecell for a freecell addict and it still had PATA/IDE.
Wow. Cheap as those netbooks?
>> At least they have USB ports, but sometimes slow (e.g., v1)!
>
> Yeah, and thats a significant problem with an external hard drive.
> The V1s are a complete pain in the arse speed wise.
Totally. I couldn't believe how slow v1 was with USB flash
drives/sticks! Oy!
>> Now, to think about about it. What about older and newer laptops/notebooks and netbooks? I don't remember seeing any
>> ESATA ports in those.
>
> Yeah, thats very rare. You can get esata cards for them tho.
They're probably expensive and require drivers I bet. :(
>> I do see USB and firewire (pretty much over :().
>
> Yep, universal now, tho firewire isnt universal.
:(
>>>> Do OS' (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without downloaded drivers?
>
>>> Most older PCs dont even have SATA support.
>
>> I was referring to computers that do have SATA support and have older OS'.
>
> Those always do support SATA as legacy drives at worst.
>
>> I have an old ASUS K8V SE motherboard machine that uses a SATA HDD, and that's about five years old or more.
>
> Thats supported by XP and later. Supported by 98 and 2K by setting it as a legacy drive in the bios.
Interesting. I assume that is the same thing with a HP Mini netbook that
I had to change to legacy or else Windows XP SP3's installer couldn't
find its SATA HDD (tried F6 disk with an external 3.5" disk drive for
its supplied drivers, but that still didn't help).
> Older Linux isnt relevant because its free to use the latest.
>
> Mac OS is fine too.
Even Mac OS X 10.2.8? I still see those, but rarely.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>>>> I am looking at my computer, and I don't think I even have an eSATA port after seeing
>>>>> http://www.macgurus.com/ccp51/media/images/category/sata/eSATA_TypA_lrg.jpg
>>>> It can be trivially added if it does have SATA.
>>> How does that work? Adapter cables?
>> Yep.
> Ah, is that expensive
Nope, costs peanuts.
> and complex?
Nope, just mechanical, no electronics involved at all.
>>> I don't know too much about computer internal hardwares.
>> Thats all it is, and a mounting bracket for the eSATA connector so its on the case.
> Ah. Hmm, I guess I will skip ESATA for now since it is a bit complex and not all computers have it.
Yeah, I would must because there are fuck all 2.5" external drives that support it.
Worth having with the docking stations that mostly do support it tho.
>>> I know my gaming Windows XP box has SATA drives (dumped my old
>>> drives last year). I know newer machines have SATA. Obviously older
>>> PCs still use PATA/IDE. :(
>> Even still some new ones. I got the cheapest I could find quite literally just to pay freecell for a freecell addict
>> and it still had PATA/IDE.
> Wow. Cheap as those netbooks?
Quite a bit cheaper.
>>> At least they have USB ports, but sometimes slow (e.g., v1)!
>> Yeah, and thats a significant problem with an external hard drive.
>> The V1s are a complete pain in the arse speed wise.
> Totally. I couldn't believe how slow v1 was with USB flash drives/sticks! Oy!
>>> Now, to think about about it. What about older and newer laptops/notebooks and netbooks? I don't remember seeing any
>>> ESATA
>>> ports in those.
>> Yeah, thats very rare. You can get esata cards for them tho.
> They're probably expensive and require drivers I bet. :(
Yep.
>>> I do see USB and firewire (pretty much over :().
>> Yep, universal now, tho firewire isnt universal.
> :(
>>>>> Do OS' (beside the newer ones) support ESATA natively without
>>>>> downloaded drivers?
>>>> Most older PCs dont even have SATA support.
>>> I was referring to computers that do have SATA support and have older OS'.
>> Those always do support SATA as legacy drives at worst.
>>> I have an old ASUS K8V SE motherboard machine that uses a SATA HDD, and that's about five years old or more.
>> Thats supported by XP and later. Supported by 98 and 2K by setting it as a legacy drive in the bios.
> Interesting. I assume that is the same thing with a HP Mini netbook
> that I had to change to legacy or else Windows XP SP3's installer
> couldn't find its SATA HDD (tried F6 disk with an external 3.5" disk
> drive for its supplied drivers, but that still didn't help).
>> Older Linux isnt relevant because its free to use the latest.
>> Mac OS is fine too.
> Even Mac OS X 10.2.8? I still see those, but rarely.
Cant remember.
Ant
notebooks/laptops use this size. It would be nice to be able to have one
that uses 2.5" size when I still have my old regular sized HD enclosure
for the desktop size ones.
--
"..., you ready for a little dumpster diving?" "Um... okay." "You know I
don't mind getting my hands dirty." "I mean, maggots, wet trash, I am
the first one in." "Okay, so what are you waiting for?" "Ants."
(Chuckles) "Ants?" "Yes, I have got a problem with ants." "They are
sneaky, and they are mobile, and when they get on you, even if you get
them off..." "Okay, Calleigh, chill." --CSI: Miami (Wannabe episode; #218)
Rod Speed
> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
Yep. And the sata drive docking stations mostly accept both 3.5" and 2.5" sata drives.
> I recall that notebooks/laptops use this size.
Yes.
> It would be nice to be able to have one that uses 2.5" size when I still have my old regular sized HD enclosure for
> the desktop size ones.
Yes, you can get both types of enclosures.
Ant
Is there a such thing of having an enclsoure for both sizes (2 in 1)?
--
"Where the sugar is, there will the ant be also." --Philippines
Ed Light
> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
I have had bad experiences with several of them, but they were all IDE,
not SATA. Incompatibilities with my motherboard would cause Windows to
lock up if I tried to shut down with the drive attached, for instance.
My present enclosure behaves ok but the SMART info. cannot be read.
I have a new 3 1/2" Western Digital Elements external drive that is
great, no problems at all, and the SMART data shows up (in Win XP, in
the HD Sentinel program). Perhaps their 2 1/2" drives will do that. You
should buy from a shop that will let you return it in case of
incompatibilities.
Believe me, winding up trying lots of enclosures for a bare drive is no
fun, and can get expensive (return postage, restocking fees).
Ant
>> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
>
> I have had bad experiences with several of them, but they were all IDE,
> not SATA. Incompatibilities with my motherboard would cause Windows to
> lock up if I tried to shut down with the drive attached, for instance.
> My present enclosure behaves ok but the SMART info. cannot be read.
>
> I have a new 3 1/2" Western Digital Elements external drive that is
> great, no problems at all, and the SMART data shows up (in Win XP, in
> the HD Sentinel program). Perhaps their 2 1/2" drives will do that. You
> should buy from a shop that will let you return it in case of
> incompatibilities.
>
> Believe me, winding up trying lots of enclosures for a bare drive is no
> fun, and can get expensive (return postage, restocking fees).
Bummer. Is anyone else experiencing this too?
--
"Any spoke will lead the ant to the hub." --unknown
Robert Nichols
Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
:On 10/11/2009 12:34 PM PT, Rod Speed typed:
:
:>> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
:>
:> Yep. And the sata drive docking stations mostly accept both 3.5" and 2.5" sata drives.
:>
:>> I recall that notebooks/laptops use this size.
:>
:> Yes.
:>
:>> It would be nice to be able to have one that uses 2.5" size when I still have my old regular sized HD enclosure for
:>> the desktop size ones.
:>
:> Yes, you can get both types of enclosures.
:
:Is there a such thing of having an enclsoure for both sizes (2 in 1)?
You can get adapter brackets to mount a 2.5" drive in a 3.5" housing.
The connectors are identical, so all you need is a mechanical adapter.
But, if you're going to have a housing big enough to hold 3.5" drives,
then obviously you'd need some reason other than physical size to opt
for the more expensive and lower-capacity 2.5" drives. I don't think
you're going to find a housing that accepts, e.g., four 3.5" drives
OR eight 2.5" drives.
Rod Speed
> Ed Light wrote
>>> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
>> I have had bad experiences with several of them, but they were all
>> IDE, not SATA. Incompatibilities with my motherboard would cause
>> Windows to lock up if I tried to shut down with the drive attached,
>> for instance. My present enclosure behaves ok but the SMART info.
>> cannot be read.
>> I have a new 3 1/2" Western Digital Elements external drive that is
>> great, no problems at all, and the SMART data shows up (in Win XP, in
>> the HD Sentinel program). Perhaps their 2 1/2" drives will do that.
>> You should buy from a shop that will let you return it in case of
>> incompatibilities.
>> Believe me, winding up trying lots of enclosures for a bare drive is
>> no fun, and can get expensive (return postage, restocking fees).
> Bummer. Is anyone else experiencing this too?
Nope, but I mostly use docking stations.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Question: Do 2.5" HDD enclosure for 2.5" HDDs exists?
>> Yep. And the sata drive docking stations mostly accept both 3.5" and 2.5" sata drives.
>>> I recall that notebooks/laptops use this size.
>> Yes.
>>> It would be nice to be able to have one that uses 2.5" size when I
>>> still have my old regular sized HD enclosure for the desktop size ones.
>> Yes, you can get both types of enclosures.
> Is there a such thing of having an enclsoure for both sizes (2 in 1)?
Most docking stations for sata drives do.
Havent noticed any enclosures that do tho.
Havent gone looking for them either tho.
Ant
> :Is there a such thing of having an enclsoure for both sizes (2 in 1)?
>
> You can get adapter brackets to mount a 2.5" drive in a 3.5" housing.
> The connectors are identical, so all you need is a mechanical adapter.
> But, if you're going to have a housing big enough to hold 3.5" drives,
> then obviously you'd need some reason other than physical size to opt
> for the more expensive and lower-capacity 2.5" drives. I don't think
> you're going to find a housing that accepts, e.g., four 3.5" drives
> OR eight 2.5" drives.
Thanks. Actually, I was referring to one enclosure and swapping 2.5" and
3.5" drives inside of it.
--
"The eyeless ant asked God, 'Give me eye-lashes.'" --Georgian Proverb
Ant
>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they are
>> rare (with ESATA)? :)
>
> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an
option or use two USB cables?
--
"Now I have you where I want you... where is my jar of Bull ants?" --unknown
Rod Speed
> Ed Light wrote
>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good
>>> since they are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
> Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an option or use two USB cables?
Yes, most can do both.
Even the ones with just two USB cables can be
powered with one of the USB power devices.
Ant
Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports and
some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc drives,
etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB external
HDDs can do both.
--
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first
instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she
fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny." --Saturday Night Live
FAQ: Deep Thoughts
Ant
>>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>>>>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they
>>>>> are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>
>>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>>
>>> Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an
>>> option or use two USB cables?
>>
>> Yes, most can do both.
>>
>> Even the ones with just two USB cables can be
>> powered with one of the USB power devices.
>
> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports and
> some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc drives,
> etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB external
> HDDs can do both.
It seems difficult to find 2.5" external USB HDDs with both dual USB and
power AC adapter supports from my local retail stores with their weekly
sales. I looked at these:
http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (expires on
10/24/2009).
320 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go 2.5" portable external hard drive. USB 2.0
interface. = $79.99 at Office Max. Amazon's 4.5 stars (345 reviews).
NewEgg showed Mac models only.
500 GB 2.5" Verbatim external portable hard drive. USB 2.0 interface. =
$79.99 at Office Depot. Amazon (can't seem to figure out which one it
is). NewEgg only had one review.
320 GB 2.5" Verbatim portable external hard drive. USB 2.0 and Firewire
interfaces. = $89.99 at Office Depot. Amazon (can't seem to figure out
which one it is). NewEgg had very few reviews.
500 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go 2.5" portable external hard drive. USB 2.0
interface. = $109.99 at Office Max and Office Depot. Amazon's 4.5 stars
(345 reviews). NewEgg showed Mac models only.
Interesting how same sizes can vary with prices (500 GB: $79.99 vs.
$109.99!).
Do I assume I won't know the diffferences between 7200rpm and 5400rpm
via USB2?
I will wait for future weekly sales since I am not in a rush. I do want
a 2.5" external size.
--
"What is it all but a trouble of ants... In the gleam of a million...
million of suns? --Alfred Lord Tennyson
Arno
> On 10/18/2009 1:42 AM PT, Rod Speed typed:
>> Ant wrote
>>> Ed Light wrote
>>>> Ant wrote
>>
>>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good
>>>>> since they are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>
>>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the esata.
>>
>>> Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an option or use two USB cables?
>>
>> Yes, most can do both.
>>
>> Even the ones with just two USB cables can be
>> powered with one of the USB power devices.
> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports and
> some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc drives,
> etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB external
> HDDs can do both.
The thing is that not any USB port will do. You need high-current
ports (0.5A) and some laptops have only one. A second non-high-current
port will only add 0.1A and that hardly makes a difference.
If you have no high-current ports, you would need to combine 5 of them
to get enough current, which is not practical.
A short market survey shows that most notebook HDDs have spin-up
currents around 1A, which means there is no solution that will
work reliably with a single high-current port. In fact I would say
that unless you know (from specification or reverse-engineering)
that your high-current port can support 1A, you should not connect
a USB-powered HDD to it. For example, my mainboard ports have no
current limiters and 2.2A fuses on them. That means one USB
powered external HDD is fine, but if I put two on a port pair
simultaneously, I risk damaging the board. On a port with current
limiting, there is no risk to the hardware, but the disk may or
may not spin up. A dual port cable only really helps if the
second port is also high-current.
Take care that if you use a dual-port cable and plug one connector
into a powered hub and the other into a computer, you can destroy
both the hub and the computer. This is why these cables are
forbidden by the specification.
Bottom line: USB powered 2.5" HDDs are not supported by the
current USB spec and hardware. It may work, it may not and
it may damage the hardware. The only option that is within
spec would be an enclosure fitted with an 2.5" SSD, that draws
a maximum of 2.4W or so.
The sane options are to either lug the PSU for a powered
enclosure around (or have on in each location) or to use
an USB stick.
Arno
Rod Speed
> On 10/18/2009 1:42 AM PT, Rod Speed typed:
>
>> Ant wrote
>>> Ed Light wrote
>>>> Ant wrote
>>
>>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>>>>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they
>>>>> are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>
>>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the
>>>> esata.
>>
>>> Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an
>>> option or use two USB cables?
>>
>> Yes, most can do both.
>>
>> Even the ones with just two USB cables can be
>> powered with one of the USB power devices.
>
> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports
> and some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc
> drives, etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB
> external HDDs can do both.
Sure, but the worst you have to do is add one of those USB power devices to power
the 2.5" drive when there arent enough USB ports on the laptop/notebook/netbook.
Rod Speed
> On 10/18/2009 9:48 AM PT, Ant typed:
>
>>>>>> Thanks. I think I will look for 2.5" ones instead of docks and
>>>>>> enclosures. Now, the hard part is which ones are good since they
>>>>>> are rare (with ESATA)? :)
>>>
>>>>> These are the few on newegg. Be sure to read all the user reviews.
>>>>> Apparently you must plug in the USB for power while using the
>>>>> esata.
>>>
>>>> Do I assume some of these 2.5" USB external HDDs can power AC as an
>>>> option or use two USB cables?
>>>
>>> Yes, most can do both.
>>>
>>> Even the ones with just two USB cables can be
>>> powered with one of the USB power devices.
>>
>> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports
>> and some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc
>> drives, etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB
>> external HDDs can do both.
> It seems difficult to find 2.5" external USB HDDs with both dual USB
> and power AC adapter supports from my local retail stores with their
> weekly sales.
Like I said the worst you have to do is add one of those USB power devices
when the netboot/laptop/notebook doesnt have enough USB ports.
> I looked at these:
> http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/hdiskp.shtml (expires on
> 10/24/2009).
>
> 320 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go 2.5" portable external hard drive. USB 2.0
> interface. = $79.99 at Office Max. Amazon's 4.5 stars (345 reviews).
> NewEgg showed Mac models only.
> 500 GB 2.5" Verbatim external portable hard drive. USB 2.0 interface.
> = $79.99 at Office Depot. Amazon (can't seem to figure out which one
> it is). NewEgg only had one review.
> 320 GB 2.5" Verbatim portable external hard drive. USB 2.0 and
> Firewire interfaces. = $89.99 at Office Depot. Amazon (can't seem to
> figure out which one it is). NewEgg had very few reviews.
> 500 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go 2.5" portable external hard drive. USB 2.0
> interface. = $109.99 at Office Max and Office Depot. Amazon's 4.5
> stars (345 reviews). NewEgg showed Mac models only.
> Interesting how same sizes can vary with prices (500 GB: $79.99 vs.
> $109.99!).
> Do I assume I won't know the diffferences between 7200rpm and 5400rpm via USB2?
No, the difference will be measurable, tho not necessarily that noticeable.
Ant
> The thing is that not any USB port will do. You need high-current
> ports (0.5A) and some laptops have only one. A second non-high-current
> port will only add 0.1A and that hardly makes a difference.
> If you have no high-current ports, you would need to combine 5 of them
> to get enough current, which is not practical.
Oh. Wow. OK, another reason why to get a 2.5" external USB HDD with an
power AC option if two USB cables won't do.
> A short market survey shows that most notebook HDDs have spin-up
> currents around 1A, which means there is no solution that will
> work reliably with a single high-current port. In fact I would say
> that unless you know (from specification or reverse-engineering)
> that your high-current port can support 1A, you should not connect
> a USB-powered HDD to it. For example, my mainboard ports have no
> current limiters and 2.2A fuses on them. That means one USB
> powered external HDD is fine, but if I put two on a port pair
> simultaneously, I risk damaging the board. On a port with current
> limiting, there is no risk to the hardware, but the disk may or
> may not spin up. A dual port cable only really helps if the
> second port is also high-current.
I was wondering what happens when there is not enough power via USB
cable(s) for the external drive. So it won't spin up.
> Take care that if you use a dual-port cable and plug one connector
> into a powered hub and the other into a computer, you can destroy
> both the hub and the computer. This is why these cables are
> forbidden by the specification.
>
> Bottom line: USB powered 2.5" HDDs are not supported by the
> current USB spec and hardware. It may work, it may not and
> it may damage the hardware. The only option that is within
> spec would be an enclosure fitted with an 2.5" SSD, that draws
> a maximum of 2.4W or so.
>
> The sane options are to either lug the PSU for a powered
> enclosure around (or have on in each location) or to use
> an USB stick.
Speaking of power AC, do any HDD enclosures have them inside them
instead of outside? I just really hate carrying three separate pieces
(USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
--
"Don't step on ants... they're people too." --a quote from ANTZ movie.
Ant
>> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports
>> and some are already used by other devices like USB mice, USB disc
>> drives, etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB
>> external HDDs can do both.
>
> Sure, but the worst you have to do is add one of those USB power devices to power
> the 2.5" drive when there arent enough USB ports on the laptop/notebook/netbook.
Oh boy, more stuff to carry around for an external USB HDD. LOL! It's
funny now because I don't actually use any powered USB hubs for none of
USB devices (mice, external drives, etc.) I use. I am hoping I won't
need it (running out of power outlets and have too many power strips
already).
--
"Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know
what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the
queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things
ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --Aliens movie
Rod Speed
A few do, but none of the 2.5" ones. There isnt even enough room for a
mains power socket with those. Its only the much bigger ones that have those.
> I just really hate carrying three separate pieces (USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
Yeah, but there is no alternative with the 2.5" enclosures.
The biggest USB sticks do fix that problem.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Because some laptops/notebooks and netbooks have very few USB ports and some are already used by other devices like
>>> USB mice, USB disc drives, etc. I want to be sure these 2.5" (leaning on this size) USB external HDDs can do both.
>> Sure, but the worst you have to do is add one of those USB power devices to power the 2.5" drive when there arent
>> enough USB ports on the laptop/notebook/netbook.
> Oh boy, more stuff to carry around for an external USB HDD. LOL!
If you dont like that, the biggest USB sticks fix that problem.
> It's funny now because I don't actually use any powered USB hubs for none of USB devices (mice, external drives, etc.)
> I use. I am hoping I won't need it (running out of power outlets and have too many power strips already).
Netbooks etc change things on that sort of thing.
Ant
I am avoiding sticks because they are limited in disk sizes and very
expensive. The biggest one, I have seen, is like only 32 GB, which is
currently too small. I need like 320+ GB.
--
"I got this aunt... Carpenter ant." --Girl and Crow
Arno
> On 10/18/2009 11:09 AM PT, Arno typed:
>> The thing is that not any USB port will do. You need high-current
>> ports (0.5A) and some laptops have only one. A second non-high-current
>> port will only add 0.1A and that hardly makes a difference.
>> If you have no high-current ports, you would need to combine 5 of them
>> to get enough current, which is not practical.
> Oh. Wow. OK, another reason why to get a 2.5" external USB HDD with an
> power AC option if two USB cables won't do.
>> A short market survey shows that most notebook HDDs have spin-up
>> currents around 1A, which means there is no solution that will
>> work reliably with a single high-current port. In fact I would say
>> that unless you know (from specification or reverse-engineering)
>> that your high-current port can support 1A, you should not connect
>> a USB-powered HDD to it. For example, my mainboard ports have no
>> current limiters and 2.2A fuses on them. That means one USB
>> powered external HDD is fine, but if I put two on a port pair
>> simultaneously, I risk damaging the board. On a port with current
>> limiting, there is no risk to the hardware, but the disk may or
>> may not spin up. A dual port cable only really helps if the
>> second port is also high-current.
> I was wondering what happens when there is not enough power via USB
> cable(s) for the external drive. So it won't spin up.
Some drives will still manage, some will not spin and for some
it will work part of the time.
>> Take care that if you use a dual-port cable and plug one connector
>> into a powered hub and the other into a computer, you can destroy
>> both the hub and the computer. This is why these cables are
>> forbidden by the specification.
>>
>> Bottom line: USB powered 2.5" HDDs are not supported by the
>> current USB spec and hardware. It may work, it may not and
>> it may damage the hardware. The only option that is within
>> spec would be an enclosure fitted with an 2.5" SSD, that draws
>> a maximum of 2.4W or so.
>>
>> The sane options are to either lug the PSU for a powered
>> enclosure around (or have on in each location) or to use
>> an USB stick.
> Speaking of power AC, do any HDD enclosures have them inside them
> instead of outside? I just really hate carrying three separate pieces
> (USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
Some have. But for 2.5" there is very little space, so I am not
sure there are any.
Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
While I have not found numbers for these, the bare 160GB 1.8"
drives by Samsung have a maximum spin-up current of 0.54A. This
means they should work reliably on practically all high current
USB ports, the 8% over spec (plus a tiny bit for the adapter)
should not be a problem.
Link:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productSubType.do?group=72&type=87&subtype=89
Arno
iws
news:7k1lpiF...@mid.individual.net...
drang is all about. My Buffalo Ministation specs at 5V, 2.5 W max which
would seem to be within the 0.5 A USB spec. Anyhow, it works fine on my
Everex Notebook and my Asus EEEPC 901 as well as several different Desktops
of varying vintage. And that's without an AC adapter: in fact, it didn't
even come with one.
Ed Light
> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
> external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
They (or some of them) have encryption! Probably software.
Arno
> Arno wrote:
>> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
>> external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
> They (or some of them) have encryption! Probably software.
Make that "very likely" ;-)
Arno
Arno
> Wow, this thread's still going. I still don't know what all the sturm und
> drang is all about. My Buffalo Ministation specs at 5V, 2.5 W max which
> would seem to be within the 0.5 A USB spec. Anyhow, it works fine on my
> Everex Notebook and my Asus EEEPC 901 as well as several different Desktops
> of varying vintage. And that's without an AC adapter: in fact, it didn't
> even come with one.
For operation yes, but for startup very likely not. However it
usually works, see the 2A practical rating on a pair of USB
ports on several different mainboards that I found.
Arno
Ant
>> Speaking of power AC, do any HDD enclosures have them inside them
>> instead of outside? I just really hate carrying three separate pieces
>> (USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
>
> Some have. But for 2.5" there is very little space, so I am not
> sure there are any.
>
> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
> external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
> While I have not found numbers for these, the bare 160GB 1.8"
> drives by Samsung have a maximum spin-up current of 0.54A. This
> means they should work reliably on practically all high current
> USB ports, the 8% over spec (plus a tiny bit for the adapter)
> should not be a problem.
>
> Link:
> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productSubType.do?group=72&type=87&subtype=89
Thanks. A little pricey for those tiny disk sizes. Are Minis new? I
never knew 1.8" HDDs existed.
--
"Ant colonies are remarkably similar to cities. No one choreographs the
action, not even the queen ant, but ant behavior is controlled by swarm
logic--put 10,000 dumb ants together, and they become smart. They will
calculate the shortest routes to food supplies sniffing out pheromone
signals from other ants and Johnson says people do the same thing in
cities using low-level interactions of people on the street." --Alex
Cukan, "Stories of modern science," United Press International, October
8, 2001
Ant
> Arno wrote:
>
>> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes external
>> 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
>
> They (or some of them) have encryption! Probably software.
And probably Windows only.
--
"Ant colonies are remarkably similar to cities. No one choreographs the
action, not even the queen ant, but ant behavior is controlled by swarm
logic--put 10,000 dumb ants together, and they become smart. They will
calculate the shortest routes to food supplies sniffing out pheromone
signals from other ants and Johnson says people do the same thing in
cities using low-level interactions of people on the street." --Alex
Cukan, "Stories of modern science," United Press International, October
8, 2001
iws
What do you mean by startup? I connect the drive to the USB port and it
spins right up ready to go. I've been doing this for more than a year with
no problem whatsoever.
Arno
You quote 2.5W (i.e. 0.5A), but that is operational. On spin-up
drives typically take a lot more power. I looked up several
2.5" HDDs, and it seems they all draw 0.9-1.0A on spin-up. The
maximum specified current for a high-current USB port is 0.5A
and ports can enforce that limit. It seems most do not.
So, yes, it usually works, but it is way out of spec.
The problem here is that drawing more current than specified
is a thing that can potentially damage hardware. However I
guess that by now most modern high-current poerts can deliver
far more current than the 0.5A specified.
But look at this cenario: Taka a cheap unpowered USB hub,
that just gives USB input voltage without any limiter or
fusing to the 4 devices attached (i have one of these).
Plug in 4 USB-powered 2.5" HDDs. Then plug this into your
running mainboard. The current draw would be 4A for a
short while and (at least on Asus boards I have seen) you
would then have a blown fuse, i.e. 2 defective USB ports.
That is why "draws too much current" is typically not a case
for "lets try it". As I said, it seems most high-current
ports can handle at least one 2.5" bus powered HDD.
Arno
Arno
> On 10/18/2009 4:13 PM PT, Arno typed:
>>> Speaking of power AC, do any HDD enclosures have them inside them
>>> instead of outside? I just really hate carrying three separate pieces
>>> (USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
>>
>> Some have. But for 2.5" there is very little space, so I am not
>> sure there are any.
>>
>> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
>> external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
>> While I have not found numbers for these, the bare 160GB 1.8"
>> drives by Samsung have a maximum spin-up current of 0.54A. This
>> means they should work reliably on practically all high current
>> USB ports, the 8% over spec (plus a tiny bit for the adapter)
>> should not be a problem.
>>
>> Link:
>> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productSubType.do?group=72&type=87&subtype=89
> Thanks. A little pricey for those tiny disk sizes. Are Minis new? I
> never knew 1.8" HDDs existed.
Seems to be pretty new. Not pricey for the size,
but a lot more expensive than 2.5" HDDs.
Arno
Rod Speed
> On 10/18/2009 4:13 PM PT, Arno typed:
>
>>> Speaking of power AC, do any HDD enclosures have them inside them
>>> instead of outside? I just really hate carrying three separate
>>> pieces (USB cable + power AC + USB HDD enclsoure) around.
>>
>> Some have. But for 2.5" there is very little space, so I am not
>> sure there are any.
>>
>> Incidentially I just now found an alternative. Samsung makes
>> external 1.8" drives up to 250GB, the "Samsung Spinpoint S1 Mini".
>> While I have not found numbers for these, the bare 160GB 1.8"
>> drives by Samsung have a maximum spin-up current of 0.54A. This
>> means they should work reliably on practically all high current
>> USB ports, the 8% over spec (plus a tiny bit for the adapter)
>> should not be a problem.
>>
>> Link:
>> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productSubType.do?group=72&type=87&subtype=89
>
> Thanks. A little pricey for those tiny disk sizes. Are Minis new?
Nope.
> I never knew 1.8" HDDs existed.
They've been around for quite a while now.
Ant
Hard Drive (similiar to its 320 GB sibbling:
http://bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9548242&st=Seagate+500+GB+portable+external+drive&type=product&id=1218122579593
or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjfy8sg ). I used it on an old Dell
Dimension 8250 (five years old or so) with updated Windows XP Home SP3
and through one of its front case USB port.
It's nice due to its small size and light weight unlike my old heavy and
big enclosure with a 3.5"(?) IDE/PATA HDD, but it has no power AC and
some of you guys mentioned possible USB power issues. I thought it was
weird on its box, it said designed for Windows XP and works with Vista.
No 2000 SP4, Mac OS X, etc. mentioned? I also noticed the HDD was
preformatted as NTFS. I also noticed no ventaliation holes, but the HDD
doesn't get hot like the huge and heavy old, problematic Maxtor OneTouch
HDDs.
--
[Laser pulsing] "Bah. It's as easy as crushing an ant! You know, the..."
[grunting] "Wh-wh-whoa! Hey, take my wallet and leave me alone!" --Mr.
Burns from The Simpsons (Fraudcast News; FABF16/FABF18 episode)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )
Arno
> At work, I got to borrow a new Seagate 500 GB External USB 2.0 Portable
> Hard Drive (similiar to its 320 GB sibbling:
> http://bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9548242&st=Seagate+500+GB+portable+external+drive&type=product&id=1218122579593
> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjfy8sg ). I used it on an old Dell
> Dimension 8250 (five years old or so) with updated Windows XP Home SP3
> and through one of its front case USB port.
> It's nice due to its small size and light weight unlike my old heavy and
> big enclosure with a 3.5"(?) IDE/PATA HDD, but it has no power AC and
> some of you guys mentioned possible USB power issues.
Well, in practice power issues will arise on unpowered hubs and
devices like Wlan routers with USB ports. For direct PC connections
it should work.
> I thought it was
> weird on its box, it said designed for Windows XP and works with Vista.
> No 2000 SP4, Mac OS X, etc. mentioned? I also noticed the HDD was
> preformatted as NTFS.
That is possibly what took OS X off the list. W2k is likely just too
old.
> I also noticed no ventaliation holes, but the HDD
> doesn't get hot like the huge and heavy old, problematic Maxtor OneTouch
> HDDs.
The Maxtors were basically set-up to die early. I still suspect
intent rather than incompetence, because when they came on the
market, it was well established that the drives in them did not
deal well with heat.
Arno
Ant
> Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>> At work, I got to borrow a new Seagate 500 GB External USB 2.0 Portable
>> Hard Drive (similiar to its 320 GB sibbling:
>> http://bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9548242&st=Seagate+500+GB+portable+external+drive&type=product&id=1218122579593
>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjfy8sg ). I used it on an old Dell
>> Dimension 8250 (five years old or so) with updated Windows XP Home SP3
>> and through one of its front case USB port.
>
>> It's nice due to its small size and light weight unlike my old heavy and
>> big enclosure with a 3.5"(?) IDE/PATA HDD, but it has no power AC and
>> some of you guys mentioned possible USB power issues.
>
> Well, in practice power issues will arise on unpowered hubs and
> devices like Wlan routers with USB ports. For direct PC connections
> it should work.
Oh, I never use hubs, routers, etc. I always connect directly. Also,
test for USB2 speed since not all USB ports are 2.0. USB1.1 sucks!
>> I thought it was
>> weird on its box, it said designed for Windows XP and works with Vista.
>> No 2000 SP4, Mac OS X, etc. mentioned? I also noticed the HDD was
>> preformatted as NTFS.
>
> That is possibly what took OS X off the list. W2k is likely just too
> old.
But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space on other computers
like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
--
"We are closer to the ants than to butterflies. Very few people can
endure much leisure." --Gerald Brenan
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Rod Speed
Yep.
Arno
> On 10/20/2009 2:06 AM PT, Arno typed:
>> That is possibly what took OS X off the list. W2k is likely just too
>> old.
> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space on other computers
> like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
drives as well and they work under Windows.
Arno
Ant
> > Hard Drive (similiar to its 320 GB sibbling:
> > http://bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9548242&st=Seagate+500+GB+portable+external+drive&type=product&id=1218122579593
> > or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjfy8sg ). I used it on an old Dell
> > Dimension 8250 (five years old or so) with updated Windows XP Home SP3
> > and through one of its front case USB port.
> > It's nice due to its small size and light weight unlike my old heavy and
> > big enclosure with a 3.5"(?) IDE/PATA HDD, but it has no power AC and
> > some of you guys mentioned possible USB power issues.
> Well, in practice power issues will arise on unpowered hubs and
> devices like Wlan routers with USB ports. For direct PC connections
> it should work.
And I remember my old HP Photosmart 4850 printer has a USB port, but I
think it was v1.1.
> > I thought it was
> > weird on its box, it said designed for Windows XP and works with Vista.
> > No 2000 SP4, Mac OS X, etc. mentioned? I also noticed the HDD was
> > preformatted as NTFS.
> That is possibly what took OS X off the list. W2k is likely just too
> old.
Wait, Windows 2000 SP4 can do NTFS. Still weird to pull it off.
> > I also noticed no ventaliation holes, but the HDD
> > doesn't get hot like the huge and heavy old, problematic Maxtor OneTouch
> > HDDs.
> The Maxtors were basically set-up to die early. I still suspect
> intent rather than incompetence, because when they came on the
> market, it was well established that the drives in them did not
> deal well with heat.
I found a small hole on Seagate and it looks like a vent.
I am starting to like this tiny HDD since it is lighter, portable, and
efficient for me to move around faster. I think I will get one when I
see a sale or something. So far, I tried it with three different
netbooks, a couple old desktops (about five years old), etc. at work. I
have used Windows XP SP2, Vista, and 7 so far, and no problems. All were
connected to it directly (no hubs and devices which I rarely do). I
haven't tried it with Linux and Mac OS X yet, but I don't have any here
nor can take it home to try it on my home machines. :(
There are two bad things. I hate its short USB cable. I assume I can use
an USB extension cable without problems. Also, its warranty is only two
years? No five years?
Ant
> > like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
> drives as well and they work under Windows.
Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according to XP Pro. SP2's
format command line help:
C:\>format /?
Formats a disk for use with Windows XP.
FORMAT volume [/FS:file-system] [/V:label] [/Q] [/A:size] [/C] [/X]
FORMAT volume [/V:label] [/Q] [/F:size]
FORMAT volume [/V:label] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors]
FORMAT volume [/V:label] [/Q]
FORMAT volume [/Q]
volume Specifies the drive letter (followed by a colon),
mount point, or volume name.
/FS:filesystem Specifies the type of the file system (FAT, FAT32, or NTFS).
/V:label Specifies the volume label.
/Q Performs a quick format.
/C NTFS only: Files created on the new volume will be compressed
by default.
/X Forces the volume to dismount first if necessary. All opened
handles to the volume would no longer be valid.
/A:size Overrides the default allocation unit size. Default settings
are strongly recommended for general use.
NTFS supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K.
FAT supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K,
(128K, 256K for sector size > 512 bytes).
FAT32 supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K,
(128K, 256K for sector size > 512 bytes).
Note that the FAT and FAT32 files systems impose the
following restrictions on the number of clusters on a volume:
FAT: Number of clusters <= 65526
FAT32: 65526 < Number of clusters < 4177918
Format will immediately stop processing if it decides that
the above requirements cannot be met using the specified
cluster size.
NTFS compression is not supported for allocation unit sizes
above 4096.
/F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (1.44)
/T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
/N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
I guess I could also use PartitionMagic v8 or some other disk tool to
change the file system if I don't want to reformat and lose datas (of
course, back up first).
I want this portable HDD to be compatible with most computers. I noticed
Seagate do have Windows 98 drivers if needed:
http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=portable-drivers&vgnextoid=fba08eaf05c70110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD
...
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=194371&NewLang=en
was interesting -- "Preparing the Seagate external disc drive in Mac OS
X. Mac OS X cannot mount a FAT32 partition larger than 137 GB (128 GB
binary value). Our partition is 160 GB (149 GB binary value). Since your
external drive comes with a large FAT32 partition preinstalled, you will
need to intialize the drive to use it in Mac OS X..." That sounds like I
won't be able to use all of the disk space as one partition. Maybe that
is why Mac OS X wasn't supported and NTFS was used. IIRC, Linux and Mac
OS X can't write NTFS well (buggy?). :(
--
[Laser pulsing] "Bah. It's as easy as crushing an ant! You know, the..."
[grunting] "Wh-wh-whoa! Hey, take my wallet and leave me alone!" --Mr.
Burns from The Simpsons (Fraudcast News; FABF16/FABF18 episode)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Rod Speed
>>> At work, I got to borrow a new Seagate 500 GB External USB 2.0
>>> Portable Hard Drive (similiar to its 320 GB sibbling:
>>> http://bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9548242&st=Seagate+500+GB+portable+external+drive&type=product&id=1218122579593
>>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjfy8sg ). I used it on an old Dell
>>> Dimension 8250 (five years old or so) with updated Windows XP Home
>>> SP3 and through one of its front case USB port.
>>> It's nice due to its small size and light weight unlike my old
>>> heavy and big enclosure with a 3.5"(?) IDE/PATA HDD, but it has no
>>> power AC and some of you guys mentioned possible USB power issues.
>> Well, in practice power issues will arise on unpowered hubs and devices
>> like Wlan routers with USB ports. For direct PC connections it should work.
> And I remember my old HP Photosmart 4850 printer has a USB port, but I think it was v1.1.
>>> I thought it was weird on its box, it said designed for Windows XP
>>> and works with Vista. No 2000 SP4, Mac OS X, etc. mentioned?
>>> I also noticed the HDD was preformatted as NTFS.
>> That is possibly what took OS X off the list. W2k is likely just too old.
> Wait, Windows 2000 SP4 can do NTFS.
So can any Win 2K.
> Still weird to pull it off.
Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>>> I also noticed no ventaliation holes, but the HDD doesn't get hot
>>> like the huge and heavy old, problematic Maxtor OneTouch HDDs.
>> The Maxtors were basically set-up to die early. I still suspect
>> intent rather than incompetence, because when they came on the
>> market, it was well established that the drives in them did not
>> deal well with heat.
> I found a small hole on Seagate and it looks like a vent.
Thats its arse, silly.
> I am starting to like this tiny HDD since it is lighter,
> portable, and efficient for me to move around faster.
Yeah, they are very convenient when you need more than a USB stick can do.
> I think I will get one when I see a sale or something. So far,
> I tried it with three different netbooks, a couple old desktops
> (about five years old), etc. at work. I have used Windows
> XP SP2, Vista, and 7 so far, and no problems. All were
> connected to it directly (no hubs and devices which I rarely
> do). I haven't tried it with Linux and Mac OS X yet, but I don't have
> any here nor can take it home to try it on my home machines. :(
> There are two bad things. I hate its short USB cable. I
> assume I can use an USB extension cable without problems.
Yes.
> Also, its warranty is only two years? No five years?
Thats almost universal with external hard drives, in fact many have only 1 year.
Rod Speed
>>> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space
>>> on other computers like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
>> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
>> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
>> drives as well and they work under Windows.
> Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according
> to XP Pro. SP2's format command line help:
XP wont format partitions bigger than 32GB FAT32.
Its happy to use them, just wont format them FAT32.
There arent too many that will do NTFS to FAT32 reformats without loss of data.
Easy enough to just copy the data off, reformat and copy it back.
> I want this portable HDD to be compatible with most computers.
> I noticed Seagate do have Windows 98 drivers if needed:
> http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=portable-drivers&vgnextoid=fba08eaf05c70110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD
> ...
> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=194371&NewLang=en
> was interesting -- "Preparing the Seagate external disc drive in Mac OS
> X. Mac OS X cannot mount a FAT32 partition larger than 137 GB (128 GB
> binary value). Our partition is 160 GB (149 GB binary value). Since
> your external drive comes with a large FAT32 partition preinstalled,
> you will need to intialize the drive to use it in Mac OS X..." That sounds
> like I won't be able to use all of the disk space as one partition.
> Maybe that is why Mac OS X wasn't supported and NTFS was used.
> IIRC, Linux and Mac OS X can't write NTFS well (buggy?). :(
Thats not true of Linux anymore.
Ant
> Ant wrote
>
>>>> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space
>>>> on other computers like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
>
>>> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
>>> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
>>> drives as well and they work under Windows.
>
>> Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according
>> to XP Pro. SP2's format command line help:
>
> XP wont format partitions bigger than 32GB FAT32.
> Its happy to use them, just wont format them FAT32.
What about other Windows like 7, Vista, 9x, etc.? If not, then can any
Windows software do it or do I have to do it via Linux/UNIX?
>> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=194371&NewLang=en
>> was interesting -- "Preparing the Seagate external disc drive in Mac OS
>> X. Mac OS X cannot mount a FAT32 partition larger than 137 GB (128 GB
>> binary value). Our partition is 160 GB (149 GB binary value). Since
>> your external drive comes with a large FAT32 partition preinstalled,
>> you will need to intialize the drive to use it in Mac OS X..." That sounds
>> like I won't be able to use all of the disk space as one partition.
>> Maybe that is why Mac OS X wasn't supported and NTFS was used.
>> IIRC, Linux and Mac OS X can't write NTFS well (buggy?). :(
>
> Thats not true of Linux anymore.
Oh good. I remember NTFS was really bad under Linux. It had a buggy
write option too in Kernel or something. I assume newer Mac OS X
versions (ignoring 10.2.x) can do the same now?
--
"... [Let us inquire] what glory there was in an omnipotent being
torturing forever a puny little creature who could in no way defend
himself? Would it be to the glory of a man to fry ants?" --Charlotte
Perkins Gilman
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
> So can any Win 2K.
>
>> Still weird to pull it off.
>
> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
I am still surprised MS still supports it and IE6 after all these years.
I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4. Hey, it's better than
crashy 9x and Me!
>> I am starting to like this tiny HDD since it is lighter,
>> portable, and efficient for me to move around faster.
>
> Yeah, they are very convenient when you need more than a USB stick can do.
Yeah Flash sticks/drives are limited with their disk spaces and quite
expensive. Maybe in five years. ;)
>> I think I will get one when I see a sale or something. So far,
>> I tried it with three different netbooks, a couple old desktops
>> (about five years old), etc. at work. I have used Windows
>> XP SP2, Vista, and 7 so far, and no problems. All were
>> connected to it directly (no hubs and devices which I rarely
>> do). I haven't tried it with Linux and Mac OS X yet, but I don't have
>> any here nor can take it home to try it on my home machines. :(
>
>> There are two bad things. I hate its short USB cable. I
>> assume I can use an USB extension cable without problems.
>
> Yes.
Cool.
>> Also, its warranty is only two years? No five years?
>
> Thats almost universal with external hard drives, in fact many have only 1 year.
Wow. I thought all Seagate HDDs were five years for warranty. I guess
it's only for internal HDDs. :( Do these external HDDs last long?
--
"If ants are such busy workers, how come they find time to go to all the
picnics?" --Marie Dressler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space
>>>>> on other computers like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
>>>> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
>>>> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
>>>> drives as well and they work under Windows.
>>> Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according
>>> to XP Pro. SP2's format command line help:
>> XP wont format partitions bigger than 32GB FAT32.
>> Its happy to use them, just wont format them FAT32.
> What about other Windows like 7, Vista,
Those are the same as XP in that regard.
> 9x, etc.?
9x will do it fine. So will DOS.
> If not, then can any Windows software do it or do I have to do it via Linux/UNIX?
You can also use plenty of Win apps to do it too.
>>> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=194371&NewLang=en
>>> was interesting -- "Preparing the Seagate external disc drive in
>>> Mac OS X. Mac OS X cannot mount a FAT32 partition larger than 137
>>> GB (128 GB binary value). Our partition is 160 GB (149 GB binary
>>> value). Since your external drive comes with a large FAT32 partition preinstalled,
>>> you will need to intialize the drive to use it in Mac OS X..." That
>>> sounds like I won't be able to use all of the disk space as one
>>> partition. Maybe that is why Mac OS X wasn't supported and NTFS was used.
>>> IIRC, Linux and Mac OS X can't write NTFS well (buggy?). :(
>> Thats not true of Linux anymore.
> Oh good. I remember NTFS was really bad under Linux.
It hasnt been that for a long time now, particularly with reads.
> It had a buggy write option too in Kernel or something. I assume newer Mac OS X versions (ignoring 10.2.x) can do the
> same now?
Dunno.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> So can any Win 2K.
>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
> I am still surprised MS still supports it
They dont actually.
> and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
Yeah, there's always a few dinosaurs around.
> Hey, it's better than crashy 9x and Me!
Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do.
>>> I am starting to like this tiny HDD since it is lighter,
>>> portable, and efficient for me to move around faster.
>> Yeah, they are very convenient when you need more than a USB stick can do.
> Yeah Flash sticks/drives are limited with their disk spaces and quite expensive. Maybe in five years. ;)
>>> I think I will get one when I see a sale or something. So far,
>>> I tried it with three different netbooks, a couple old desktops
>>> (about five years old), etc. at work. I have used Windows
>>> XP SP2, Vista, and 7 so far, and no problems. All were
>>> connected to it directly (no hubs and devices which I rarely
>>> do). I haven't tried it with Linux and Mac OS X yet, but I don't
>>> have any here nor can take it home to try it on my home machines. :(
>>> There are two bad things. I hate its short USB cable. I
>>> assume I can use an USB extension cable without problems.
>> Yes.
> Cool.
>>> Also, its warranty is only two years? No five years?
>> Thats almost universal with external hard drives, in fact many have only 1 year.
> Wow. I thought all Seagate HDDs were five years for warranty.
Nar not their externals, and not even all their internals either now, they've
gone back to 3 years for some of them, now that they have absorbed Maxtor.
> I guess it's only for internal HDDs. :(
Not anymore.
> Do these external HDDs last long?
The 2.5" drives do. Its hard to drop them etc tho. They dont like being dropped onto a hard floor.
David Brown
> On 10/20/2009 2:28 PM PT, Rod Speed typed:
>
>> So can any Win 2K.
>>
>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>>
>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>
> I am still surprised MS still supports it and IE6 after all these years.
> I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4. Hey, it's better than
> crashy 9x and Me!
>
MS don't support W2K (don't know about IE6 - I almost never use IE).
There are not many still using W2K, but some do, for several reasons.
One is that if you have a working W2K machine, there is almost nothing
to be gained (and plenty to lose) by moving it to a newer windows version.
Another reason is that W2K can easily and quickly be installed without
any activation (you still need a license, of course). Combined with
lighter resource requirements than XP, this makes it very convenient for
virtual machines.
A lot of people still use IE6 - I think it was about 20% last time I
looked at one of these browser statistics reports.
Ant
> Ant wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Ant wrote
>
>>>>>> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space
>>>>>> on other computers like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
>
>>>>> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
>>>>> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
>>>>> drives as well and they work under Windows.
>
>>>> Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according
>>>> to XP Pro. SP2's format command line help:
>
>>> XP wont format partitions bigger than 32GB FAT32.
>>> Its happy to use them, just wont format them FAT32.
>
>> What about other Windows like 7, Vista,
>
> Those are the same as XP in that regard.
>
>> 9x, etc.?
>
> 9x will do it fine. So will DOS.
Interesting. Why did MS do that? Force users to use NTFS? I guess I
would have to boot up a Windows 98 SE/Me in VMware. Pure DOS won't work
since lack of USB driver for the drive.
>> If not, then can any Windows software do it or do I have to do it via Linux/UNIX?
>
> You can also use plenty of Win apps to do it too.
Like which ones (freewares)? Old commercial PartitionMagic v8 is OK?
>>> Thats not true of Linux anymore.
>
>> Oh good. I remember NTFS was really bad under Linux.
>
> It hasnt been that for a long time now, particularly with reads.
I was referring to the write part. Read was fine back then.
--
"Ants can attack with a grain of rice." --a Malagasy Proverb
Ant
>>> So can any Win 2K.
>
>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>
>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>
>> I am still surprised MS still supports it
>
> They dont actually.
Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6. See these
two links/URLs:
1. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
>> and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>
> Yeah, there's always a few dinosaurs around.
And it still works great for old stuff.
>> Hey, it's better than crashy 9x and Me!
>
> Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do.
Oh come on. NT OS' are so much stable and better. 9x and Me always crashes.
>> Wow. I thought all Seagate HDDs were five years for warranty.
>
> Nar not their externals, and not even all their internals either now, they've
> gone back to 3 years for some of them, now that they have absorbed Maxtor.
Damnit! Who is still doing five years? Samsung only? Does Samsung sell
2.5" external HDDs. I remmeber you or someone mentioning them doing good
in the past.
>> I guess it's only for internal HDDs. :(
>
> Not anymore.
:(
>> Do these external HDDs last long?
>
> The 2.5" drives do. Its hard to drop them etc tho. They dont like being dropped onto a hard floor.
Cool.
--
"To conquer the world, we must be as meticulous and calculating as a
colony of ants on the march." --Julius Caesar
Ant
> MS don't support W2K (don't know about IE6 - I almost never use IE).
Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6. See these
two links/URLs:
1. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
In fact, I got updates through MS Updates (also can be downloaded
through Automatic Updates) last week's Tuesday!
> There are not many still using W2K, but some do, for several reasons.
> One is that if you have a working W2K machine, there is almost nothing
> to be gained (and plenty to lose) by moving it to a newer windows version.
Yep for old school softwares and basic stuff that don't require latest
stuff.
> Another reason is that W2K can easily and quickly be installed without
> any activation (you still need a license, of course). Combined with
> lighter resource requirements than XP, this makes it very convenient for
> virtual machines.
YES! Another reason. Also, dang fast.
> A lot of people still use IE6 - I think it was about 20% last time I
> looked at one of these browser statistics reports.
Yeah. MS doesn't allow IE7 and higher in 2K either. So it is either IE6
or third party Web browsers.
--
"Ants are so much like human beings as to be an embarrassment. They farm
fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies into wars, use chemical
sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves. The families of
weaver ants engage in child labor, holding their larvae like shuttles to
spin out the thread that sews the leaves together for their fungus
gardens. They exchange information ceaselessly. They do everything but
watch television." --Lewis Thomas
David Brown
> On 10/21/2009 4:54 AM PT, David Brown typed:
>
>> MS don't support W2K (don't know about IE6 - I almost never use IE).
>
> Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6. See these
> two links/URLs:
> 1. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
> 2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
>
> In fact, I got updates through MS Updates (also can be downloaded
> through Automatic Updates) last week's Tuesday!
>
I thought W2K support had been dropped. Perhaps they still make the odd
fix, but don't provide active support (by telephone or email). They
also provide support for server and embedded versions for longer than
for desktop versions.
>
>> There are not many still using W2K, but some do, for several reasons.
>> One is that if you have a working W2K machine, there is almost nothing
>> to be gained (and plenty to lose) by moving it to a newer windows
>> version.
>
> Yep for old school softwares and basic stuff that don't require latest
> stuff.
>
It's not just "basic" stuff - a great deal of windows software runs fine
on W2K.
>
>> Another reason is that W2K can easily and quickly be installed without
>> any activation (you still need a license, of course). Combined with
>> lighter resource requirements than XP, this makes it very convenient
>> for virtual machines.
>
> YES! Another reason. Also, dang fast.
>
>
>> A lot of people still use IE6 - I think it was about 20% last time I
>> looked at one of these browser statistics reports.
>
> Yeah. MS doesn't allow IE7 and higher in 2K either. So it is either IE6
> or third party Web browsers.
I don't use intentionally use IE except for a couple of websites once or
twice a year. Our company has banned IE for general usage for security
reasons - IE is only allowed for a few specific sites (such as one
retarded bank site). I don't think there was a single complaint or
objection, and once people had tried Firefox with Adblock, few use
anything else at home either.
Rod Speed
> Ant wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> So can any Win 2K.
>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>> I am still surprised MS still supports it and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>> Hey, it's better
>> than crashy 9x and Me!
> MS don't support W2K (don't know about IE6 - I almost never use IE).
> There are not many still using W2K, but some do, for several reasons.
> One is that if you have a working W2K machine, there is almost nothing
> to be gained (and plenty to lose) by moving it to a newer windows version.
Wrong, as always. USB for example works a hell of a lot better with XP.
WiFi in spades.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Ant wrote
>>>>>>> But I can format as FAT32 to use all the disk space
>>>>>>> on other computers like Mac, Linux, etc. right?
>>>>>> You can. I am not sure how to do this with Windows, but Linux
>>>>>> mkdosfs with option -F32 (use FAT32) will happily format large
>>>>>> drives as well and they work under Windows.
>>>>> Looks like format command with its /FS:FAT32 according
>>>>> to XP Pro. SP2's format command line help:
>>>> XP wont format partitions bigger than 32GB FAT32.
>>>> Its happy to use them, just wont format them FAT32.
>>> What about other Windows like 7, Vista,
>> Those are the same as XP in that regard.
>>> 9x, etc.?
>> 9x will do it fine. So will DOS.
> Interesting. Why did MS do that?
MS basically believes that FAT32 doesnt work very well with partitions
bigger than 32GB, so the later Win OSs wont format them bigger than that.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/magazine/2006.07.windowsconfidential.aspx
> Force users to use NTFS?
They dont. You're welcome to use it with partitions smaller than 32GB
and they also produced an extended version of FAT32, extFAT for the
bigger partitions that is supported with Vista and later too.
The main problem with extFAT is that fuck all else supports it.
> I guess I would have to boot up a Windows 98 SE/Me in VMware. Pure DOS won't work since lack of USB driver for the
> drive.
Sure, I was saying that generally, not specific to your need.
In your case it makes a lot more sense to just use a Win app that can format FAT32 partitions instead.
>>> If not, then can any Windows software do it or do I have to do it via Linux/UNIX?
>> You can also use plenty of Win apps to do it too.
> Like which ones (freewares)?
There's more than one on the Ultimate Boot CD for Win.
> Old commercial PartitionMagic v8 is OK?
Yeah, or True Image. Some of the older versions of TI are now free.
>>>> Thats not true of Linux anymore.
>>> Oh good. I remember NTFS was really bad under Linux.
>> It hasnt been that for a long time now, particularly with reads.
> I was referring to the write part. Read was fine back then.
Yeah, in some ways its less picky than say XP is with NTFS partitions.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> So can any Win 2K.
>>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>>> I am still surprised MS still supports it
>> They dont actually.
> Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6.
Just 2kPro, not 2K.
> See these two links/URLs:
> 1. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
Mainstream support is retired already.
> 2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
Ditto.
>>> and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>> Yeah, there's always a few dinosaurs around.
> And it still works great for old stuff.
But not for stuff as basic as USB and wifi.
>>> Hey, it's better than crashy 9x and Me!
>> Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do.
> Oh come on. NT OS' are so much stable and better.
Thats just plain wrong with USB and wifi and all sorts of other stuff like networking too.
> 9x and Me always crashes.
Bullshit. ME works fine if you know what you are doing.
>>> Wow. I thought all Seagate HDDs were five years for warranty.
>> Nar not their externals, and not even all their internals either now, they've gone back to 3 years for some of them,
>> now that they have absorbed Maxtor.
> Damnit! Who is still doing five years?
No one on their entire line.
> Samsung only?
It only does 5 years selectively too.
> Does Samsung sell 2.5" external HDDs.
Yep, mate of mine has just been stupid enough to put one thru the
washing machine quite literally. Worked fine when it had dried out.
> I remmeber you or someone mentioning them doing good in the past.
Yeah, me, Arno and John all like them.
>>> I guess it's only for internal HDDs. :(
>> Not anymore.
> :(
>>> Do these external HDDs last long?
>> The 2.5" drives do. Isnt hard to drop them etc tho. They dont like being dropped onto a hard floor.
> Cool.
David Brown
> Ant wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>> So can any Win 2K.
>
>>>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>
>>>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>
>>>> I am still surprised MS still supports it
>
>>> They dont actually.
>
>> Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6.
>
> Just 2kPro, not 2K.
Did many people use the W2K home version? At that time, MS was still
marketing the Win9x line for home use and the NT line for professional
use, so you typically had either WinME or W2Kpro.
>
>> See these two links/URLs:
>> 1. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
>
> Mainstream support is retired already.
>
>> 2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
>
> Ditto.
>
>>>> and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>
>>> Yeah, there's always a few dinosaurs around.
>
>> And it still works great for old stuff.
>
> But not for stuff as basic as USB and wifi.
>
W2K Pro is fine for USB. Obviously you might have trouble finding
specific drivers for newer hardware, but lots of other things work
perfectly well.
Wifi is also fine (in W2K pro) if you have drivers for your card. You
typically need hardware-specific utilities to connect - it's certainly
easier and more consistent with XP. But if your wifi card has W2K
support, it will work fine.
>>>> Hey, it's better than crashy 9x and Me!
>
>>> Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do.
>
>> Oh come on. NT OS' are so much stable and better.
>
> Thats just plain wrong with USB and wifi and all sorts of other stuff like networking too.
>
I have to agree with Ant here. There can be no serious argument
suggesting that even the best of the Win9x line (Win98SE, IHMHO) was as
stable or reliable as the worst of the NT line (NT4.0 before the first
couple of service packs). The NT line has also always been stronger for
networking. There was a time when the Win9x line was better for USB
(NT4.0 had very little USB support), but by Win2K, the NT line was
stronger, more stable, and had greater functionality than the Win9x line
(except perhaps for games-oriented graphics). It cost more, and had
higher resource demands than WinME, of course.
>> 9x and Me always crashes.
>
> Bullshit. ME works fine if you know what you are doing.
>
Most systems are stable enough if you treat them appropriately, and can
be crashed if you treat them badly. It's just that the NT line will
stand up to more pushing (compared to the Win9x line) before falling over.
David Brown
> David Brown wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> So can any Win 2K.
>
>>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>
>>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>
>>> I am still surprised MS still supports it and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>>> Hey, it's better
>>> than crashy 9x and Me!
>
>> MS don't support W2K (don't know about IE6 - I almost never use IE).
>
>> There are not many still using W2K, but some do, for several reasons.
>> One is that if you have a working W2K machine, there is almost nothing
>> to be gained (and plenty to lose) by moving it to a newer windows version.
>
> Wrong, as always. USB for example works a hell of a lot better with XP.
>
USB works fine for me with W2K Pro. It certainly doesn't support newer
hardware that requires its own drivers - there's no doubt that support
for new hardware is better in new systems.
> WiFi in spades.
>
WiFi works fine for me with W2K Pro on systems with drivers for W2K.
It's not as nice as with XP - you have to use hardware-specific
utilities for finding and connecting to networks. But once that's done,
it works without trouble.
Ant
> W2K Pro is fine for USB. Obviously you might have trouble finding
> specific drivers for newer hardware, but lots of other things work
> perfectly well.
Ditto.
> Wifi is also fine (in W2K pro) if you have drivers for your card. You
> typically need hardware-specific utilities to connect - it's certainly
> easier and more consistent with XP. But if your wifi card has W2K
> support, it will work fine.
Ditto. Key thing is OLD stuff and not newer stuff.
> I have to agree with Ant here. There can be no serious argument
> suggesting that even the best of the Win9x line (Win98SE, IHMHO) was as
> stable or reliable as the worst of the NT line (NT4.0 before the first
> couple of service packs). The NT line has also always been stronger for
> networking. There was a time when the Win9x line was better for USB
> (NT4.0 had very little USB support), but by Win2K, the NT line was
> stronger, more stable, and had greater functionality than the Win9x line
> (except perhaps for games-oriented graphics). It cost more, and had
> higher resource demands than WinME, of course.
IIRC, 2000 Pro. SP4 had USB support compared to earlier service packs.
> Most systems are stable enough if you treat them appropriately, and can
> be crashed if you treat them badly. It's just that the NT line will
> stand up to more pushing (compared to the Win9x line) before falling over.
[shrugs] I can easily crash 9x without doing anything hard.
--
"The constant creeping of ants will wear away the stone." --unknown
Ant
> I don't use intentionally use IE except for a couple of websites once or
> twice a year. Our company has banned IE for general usage for security
> reasons - IE is only allowed for a few specific sites (such as one
> retarded bank site). I don't think there was a single complaint or
> objection, and once people had tried Firefox with Adblock, few use
> anything else at home either.
I only use IE for MS Updates, problematic Web sites, etc.
--
"Since the world began, we have never exterminated. We probably shall
never exterminate as much as one single insect species. If there was
ever an example of an insect we cannot destroy, the fire ant is it."
--an entomologist quote mentioned by Leonard Nimoy on In The Search Of:
Deadly Ants (1978)
David Brown
> On 10/22/2009 12:07 AM PT, David Brown typed:
>
>> suggesting that even the best of the Win9x line (Win98SE, IHMHO) was
>> as stable or reliable as the worst of the NT line (NT4.0 before the
>> first couple of service packs). The NT line has also always been
>> stronger for networking. There was a time when the Win9x line was
>> better for USB (NT4.0 had very little USB support), but by Win2K, the
>> NT line was stronger, more stable, and had greater functionality than
>> the Win9x line (except perhaps for games-oriented graphics). It cost
>> more, and had higher resource demands than WinME, of course.
>
> IIRC, 2000 Pro. SP4 had USB support compared to earlier service packs.
>
Support for USB2.0 came with W2K SP4 - previous W2K versions supported
USB1.1 (if memory and a quick google serves me right).
>
>> Most systems are stable enough if you treat them appropriately, and
>> can be crashed if you treat them badly. It's just that the NT line
>> will stand up to more pushing (compared to the Win9x line) before
>> falling over.
>
> [shrugs] I can easily crash 9x without doing anything hard.
There were a lot of ups and downs in the Win9x line. The original Win95
and Win98 versions were very wobbly, while Win95 OSR2 and Win98SE were
solid enough to use if you were reasonably careful.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ant wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> So can any Win 2K.
>>>>>>> Still weird to pull it off.
>>>>>> Nope, hardly anyone uses it anymore.
>>>>> I am still surprised MS still supports it
>>>> They dont actually.
>>> Um, they are still releasing updates for both 2K Pro. and IE6.
>> Just 2kPro, not 2K.
> Did many people use the W2K home version?
Quite a few did.
> At that time, MS was still marketing the Win9x line for home use and the NT line for professional use, so you
> typically had either WinME or W2Kpro.
Utterly mangled all over again.
And it aint MS marketing that matters anyway.
>>> See these two links/URLs:
>>> 1.
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=17&p1=3071
>> Mainstream support is retired already.
>>> 2. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071
>> Ditto.
>>>>> and IE6 after all these years. I have a few clients who still use 2000 SP4.
>>>> Yeah, there's always a few dinosaurs around.
>>> And it still works great for old stuff.
>> But not for stuff as basic as USB and wifi.
> W2K Pro is fine for USB.
Wrong, as always.
> Obviously you might have trouble finding specific drivers for newer hardware, but lots of other things work perfectly
> well.
Wrong, as always.
> Wifi is also fine (in W2K pro) if you have drivers for your card.
And you dont need those with XP and later.
> You typically need hardware-specific utilities to connect - it's certainly easier and more consistent with XP.
With USB in spades.
> But if your wifi card has W2K support, it will work fine.
And you dont need that shit with XP and later.
>>>>> Hey, it's better than crashy 9x and Me!
>>>> Not necessarily, depends on what you want to do.
>>> Oh come on. NT OS' are so much stable and better.
>> Thats just plain wrong with USB and wifi and all sorts of other stuff like networking too.
> I have to agree with Ant here.
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
What you might or might not agree with in spades.
You're so stupid that you cant even manage to work out the
difference between TRUE sine wave and PURE sine wave.
> There can be no serious argument suggesting that even the best of the Win9x line (Win98SE, IHMHO) was as stable or
> reliable as the worst of the NT line (NT4.0 before the first couple of service packs).
Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
> The NT line has also always been stronger for networking.
Wrong, as always.
> There was a time when the Win9x line was better for USB (NT4.0 had very little USB support), but by Win2K, the NT line
> was stronger, more stable, and had greater functionality than the Win9x line
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> (except perhaps for games-oriented graphics).
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> It cost more, and had higher resource demands than WinME, of course.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
>>> 9x and Me always crashes.
>> Bullshit. ME works fine if you know what you are doing.
> Most systems are stable enough if you treat them appropriately, and can be crashed if you treat them badly.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
> It's just that the NT line will stand up to more pushing (compared to the Win9x line) before falling over.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.