> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,

> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).
> I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for
> boot options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.

> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba MK6465GSX
> HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures, I was advised
> on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  I burned
> the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for boot
> options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.  Is
> there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

Krypsis <kryp...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On 27/01/2012 4:35 PM, AndyHancock wrote:
>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba MK6465GSX
>> HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures, I was advised
>> on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  I burned
>> the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for boot
>> options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
>> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.  Is
>> there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?
> Do you have another working drive, even of a lower capacity, that you
> can try in the Toshiba? If the drive integrated electronics are dead, it
> will not show up in the drive list. Don't use a valuable drive for this
> test, just an old one that is "dispensable". I keep a few old working
> drives around here for testing purposes in situations like this. There's
> always the possibility that a motherboard device failure could kill the
> drive used for testing.

In article <jfua0r$r7...@dont-email.me>, Krypsis <kryp...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>On 27/01/2012 4:35 PM, AndyHancock wrote:
>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba MK6465GSX
>> HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures, I was advised
>> on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  I burned
>> the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for boot
>> options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
>> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.  Is
>> there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

>Do you have another working drive, even of a lower capacity, that you
>can try in the Toshiba? If the drive integrated electronics are dead, it
>will not show up in the drive list. Don't use a valuable drive for this
>test, just an old one that is "dispensable". I keep a few old working
>drives around here for testing purposes in situations like this. There's
>always the possibility that a motherboard device failure could kill the
>drive used for testing.

>I have a very similar Toshiba Satellite here that that has heat issues.
>It belongs to a young family member. Works fine on startup but locks up
>and crashes when warmed up. It's ~3 years old so has been replaced with
>a new and more powerful model. Uni and High School students are hard on
>these beasts! I will hang onto it for spares - hard drive and RAM at the
>very least and a screen if it fits any of the others in the family
>collection.

>My own Satellite still works fine after 4+ years and I expect it to last
>at least another 4.

> Krypsis<kryp...@optusnet.com.au>  wrote:
>> On 27/01/2012 4:35 PM, AndyHancock wrote:
>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba MK6465GSX
>>> HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures, I was advised
>>> on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  I burned
>>> the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for boot
>>> options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
>>> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.  Is
>>> there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

>> Do you have another working drive, even of a lower capacity, that you
>> can try in the Toshiba? If the drive integrated electronics are dead, it
>> will not show up in the drive list. Don't use a valuable drive for this
>> test, just an old one that is "dispensable". I keep a few old working
>> drives around here for testing purposes in situations like this. There's
>> always the possibility that a motherboard device failure could kill the
>> drive used for testing.

> Not really. The only relevant way to kill a drive by defect
> electronics is by overvoltage, so a power-regulator overvoltage
> failure is basically the only possible killer. This is rare and
> would kill other components as well.

> Arno

> AndyHancock wrote

>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
>> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,

> Whoops, this is the original hard drive.

> Are the boot failures consistent or intermittent ?

>> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test
>> (DFT).  I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to
>> press F12 for boot options and select the optical drive), which
>> successfully causes to run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD --
>> the list is empty.

> Most likely that is the reason it wont boot, the drive isnt visible
> to the system anymore.

>> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

> Nope.

> What are you posting from ?  Didnt you say you only have the one
> system ?

> If you have removed the drive in the process of testing to see if
> the clone will replace its successfully, it might just be that you
> havent connected it properly now.

> Its also possible that you have killed it too.

> In theory you might have managed to clone backwards, from the new
> drive to the original drive and thats whats made it unbootable now.
> But if that was the problem it should show up in DFT.

> What happens if you use the internal diagnostics in the Satellite ?

> Can you boot either of the recovery partitions ?  Presumably not if
> DFT cant see the drive.

> Do you have another working drive, even of a lower capacity, that
> you can try in the Toshiba? If the drive integrated electronics are
> dead, it will not show up in the drive list. Don't use a valuable
> drive for this test, just an old one that is "dispensable". I keep a
> few old working drives around here for testing purposes in
> situations like this. There's always the possibility that a
> motherboard device failure could kill the drive used for testing.

> I have a very similar Toshiba Satellite here that that has heat
> issues.  It belongs to a young family member. Works fine on startup
> but locks up and crashes when warmed up. It's ~3 years old so has
> been replaced with a new and more powerful model. Uni and High
> School students are hard on these beasts! I will hang onto it for
> spares - hard drive and RAM at the very least and a screen if it
> fits any of the others in the family collection.

> My own Satellite still works fine after 4+ years and I expect it to
> last at least another 4.

> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> AndyHancock wrote
>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
>>> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,
>> Whoops, this is the original hard drive.
>> Are the boot failures consistent or intermittent ?
> The problem isn't presently exhibiting itself.
> It was just several consecutive boot failures.

> However, it was quite scary when Toshiba
> tech support said I had to reformat the drive.

> I asked if there was another diagnostic I could do,
> and they said it wasn't as good as the information
> from a format. There has been disagreement with this
> advice (to put it politely) when I posted on various forums

> (maybe even this one).

> When I'm talking to tech support, I want to be able to offer to them
> a diagnostic alternative to chkdsk (which doesn't reveal anything),
> and I don't want that alternative to be formatting my drive.

> Even if the cause of the problem was not the disk, it is reassuring
> to confirm that with whatever diagnostic alternative I find.

> In fact, that episode is what launched me into the new and
> wonderful world of cloning, which I seem to be hobbling along in.

>>> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness
>>> Test (DFT).  I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it
>>> (I need to press F12 for boot options and select the optical drive),
>>> which successfully causes to run.  However, it doesn't detect
>>> my HDD -- the list is empty.
>> Most likely that is the reason it wont boot, the drive isnt visible
>> to the system anymore.
> Sorry, I should have clarified that the boot problem is gone,
> but i still want get smart about advanced diagnostic options.

> The drive is visible in so far as it boots (and I use
> it, like right this moment). It's just not visible to DFT.

>>> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?
>> Nope.
> Bummer.
>> What are you posting from ?  Didnt you say you only have the one system ?
> Yeah, sorry, I hope I clarified the situation above.
> BTW, I also got the clone working, including Toshiba's extra
> partitions for making recovery discs and for disc-less recovery.
> So if this original drive really gave up the ghost, I'd have a fallback.

>> If you have removed the drive in the process of testing
>> to see if the clone will replace its successfully, it might
>> just be that you havent connected it properly now.
>> Its also possible that you have killed it too.
>> In theory you might have managed to clone backwards, from the
>> new drive to the original drive and thats whats made it unbootable
>> now. But if that was the problem it should show up in DFT.
>> What happens if you use the internal diagnostics in the Satellite ?
> Errr...would you know how to access it?

>> Can you boot either of the recovery partitions ?
>> Presumably not if DFT cant see the drive.
> Hope I cleared up any misconception that I *currently* can't boot.

> But the Toshiba advice to format the drive was so...er...striking
> that I want to learn the advanced diagnostics so I counter-propose
> with an alternative.  Of course, it's also just handy to have, in case
> something causes some concern.

> AndyHancock wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> AndyHancock wrote
>>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
>>>> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,
>>> Whoops, this is the original hard drive.
>>> Are the boot failures consistent or intermittent ?
>> The problem isn't presently exhibiting itself.
>> It was just several consecutive boot failures.
> What exactly happened when the boots failed ?
>> However, it was quite scary when Toshiba
>> tech support said I had to reformat the drive.
> Do you really mean reformat or do you mean use the diskless recovery ?
>> I asked if there was another diagnostic I could do,
>> and they said it wasn't as good as the information
>> from a format. There has been disagreement with this
>> advice (to put it politely) when I posted on various forums
> Yeah, if they do mean a real format from the OS,
> thats a pretty silly thing to do in the circumstances.
>> (maybe even this one).
> Nope.
>> When I'm talking to tech support, I want to be able to offer to them
>> a diagnostic alternative to chkdsk (which doesn't reveal anything),
>> and I don't want that alternative to be formatting my drive.
> True. An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does
> mostly boot fine. http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
> hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
> on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
> else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
> you what the problem actually is.
> Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
> just ignore the OKs.
>> Even if the cause of the problem was not the disk, it is reassuring
>> to confirm that with whatever diagnostic alternative I find.
> Sure, but doesnt that Toshiba have diagnostics available at boot time ?
>> In fact, that episode is what launched me into the new and
>> wonderful world of cloning, which I seem to be hobbling along in.
> OK, didnt realise it happened before you got into cloning.
>>>> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness
>>>> Test (DFT).  I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it
>>>> (I need to press F12 for boot options and select the optical
>>>> drive), which successfully causes to run.  However, it doesn't
>>>> detect my HDD -- the list is empty.
>>> Most likely that is the reason it wont boot, the drive isnt visible
>>> to the system anymore.
>> Sorry, I should have clarified that the boot problem is gone,
>> but i still want get smart about advanced diagnostic options.
> OK.
>> The drive is visible in so far as it boots (and I use
>> it, like right this moment). It's just not visible to DFT.
> Quite a few of the laptops play silly buggers on the visibility
> of the drives, presumably thats what the problem is with DFT.
> I dont use DFT anymore anyway, it isnt particularly
> useful for the diagnosis of a hard drive problem like yours.
> The SMART report is normally much more useful unless the problem is that the laptop just cant see any drive at all at
> boot time.
> In that case no diagnostic is any use either, it cant
> diagnose any drive that isnt visible to the system.
> The only real way to diagnose that sort of problem is by substitution,
> see if the problem still happens with a different physical drive, in
> which case the problem isnt the drive itself, its the drive subsystem
> or the cable or even something as basic as the power supply etc.
> You do sometimes see that particular symptom with a drive that
> sometimes doesnt spin up. That will be visible in the SMART report.
>>>> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?
>>> Nope.
>> Bummer.
>>> What are you posting from ?  Didnt you say you only have the one system ?
>> Yeah, sorry, I hope I clarified the situation above.
>> BTW, I also got the clone working, including Toshiba's extra
>> partitions for making recovery discs and for disc-less recovery.
>> So if this original drive really gave up the ghost, I'd have a fallback.
> Yeah, thats important to do in that situation.
> Tho an image of the Win partition would be another approach,
> tho you would have to wait till Toshiba replaces the drive to use
> it. With a clone, you could use the clone until the replacement
> drive shows up if Toshiba is happy to ship you a replacement
> drive. They mostly prefer to have the whole laptop tho because
> that allows them to change other stuff if replacing the drive
> doesnt fix the problem. They may see a number of failures
> like that with that particular laptop and know that it usually
> isnt the drive thats the problem. It would be unusual for those
> symptoms to be due to the drive, with the drive sometimes
> failing to spin up if the system complains that it has no drive
> to boot off.
> The other real possibility if its actually Win complaining that
> it cant boot is that some of the sectors are very marginal
> and sometimes can be read and sometimes cant. If thats
> the problem, the SMART report will show thats the problem.
>>> If you have removed the drive in the process of testing
>>> to see if the clone will replace its successfully, it might
>>> just be that you havent connected it properly now.
>>> Its also possible that you have killed it too.
>>> In theory you might have managed to clone backwards, from the
>>> new drive to the original drive and thats whats made it unbootable
>>> now. But if that was the problem it should show up in DFT.
>>> What happens if you use the internal diagnostics in the Satellite ?
>> Errr...would you know how to access it?
> I'll see if I can find something after posting this post.

> Thats one of the reasons I dont normally buy Toshibas
> myself, their maintenance manuals can be hard to find.
> No use to you in the current situation tho given that its booting fine currently.
> You would be able to try it if it the failure to boot shows up again, if the failure is that the laptop says it hasnt
> got a hard drive to boot off.
> If that happens, try booting the diskless recovery and just dont
> actually do the recovery if it can boot the recovery partition.
>>> Can you boot either of the recovery partitions ?
>>> Presumably not if DFT cant see the drive.
>> Hope I cleared up any misconception that I *currently* can't boot.
> Yes.
>> But the Toshiba advice to format the drive was so...er...striking
>> that I want to learn the advanced diagnostics so I counter-propose
>> with an alternative.  Of course, it's also just handy to have, in
>> case something causes some concern.
> The SMART report is that. It isnt useful in all circumstances, but usually is.
> Main problem with any SMART report is that you do
> need to know what you are doing to interpret them.

> Rod Speed wrote

> > AndyHancock wrote
> >> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> AndyHancock wrote
> >>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
> >>>> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,
> >>> Whoops, this is the original hard drive.
> >>> Are the boot failures consistent or intermittent ?
> >> The problem isn't presently exhibiting itself.
> >> It was just several consecutive boot failures.
> > What exactly happened when the boots failed ?
> >> However, it was quite scary when Toshiba
> >> tech support said I had to reformat the drive.
> > Do you really mean reformat or do you mean use the diskless recovery ?
> >> I asked if there was another diagnostic I could do,
> >> and they said it wasn't as good as the information
> >> from a format. There has been disagreement with this
> >> advice (to put it politely) when I posted on various forums
> > Yeah, if they do mean a real format from the OS,
> > thats a pretty silly thing to do in the circumstances.
> >> (maybe even this one).
> > Nope.
> >> When I'm talking to tech support, I want to be able to offer to them
> >> a diagnostic alternative to chkdsk (which doesn't reveal anything),
> >> and I don't want that alternative to be formatting my drive.
> > True. An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does
> > mostly boot fine.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> > If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
> > hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
> > on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
> > else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
> > you what the problem actually is.
> > Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
> > just ignore the OKs.
> >> Even if the cause of the problem was not the disk, it is reassuring
> >> to confirm that with whatever diagnostic alternative I find.
> > Sure, but doesnt that Toshiba have diagnostics available at boot time ?
> >> In fact, that episode is what launched me into the new and
> >> wonderful world of cloning, which I seem to be hobbling along in.
> > OK, didnt realise it happened before you got into cloning.
> >>>> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness
> >>>> Test (DFT).  I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it
> >>>> (I need to press F12 for boot options and select the optical
> >>>> drive), which successfully causes to run.  However, it doesn't
> >>>> detect my HDD -- the list is empty.
> >>> Most likely that is the reason it wont boot, the drive isnt visible
> >>> to the system anymore.
> >> Sorry, I should have clarified that the boot problem is gone,
> >> but i still want get smart about advanced diagnostic options.
> > OK.
> >> The drive is visible in so far as it boots (and I use
> >> it, like right this moment). It's just not visible to DFT.
> > Quite a few of the laptops play silly buggers on the visibility
> > of the drives, presumably thats what the problem is with DFT.
> > I dont use DFT anymore anyway, it isnt particularly
> > useful for the diagnosis of a hard drive problem like yours.
> > The SMART report is normally much more useful unless the problem is that the laptop just cant see any drive at all at
> > boot time.
> > In that case no diagnostic is any use either, it cant
> > diagnose any drive that isnt visible to the system.
> > The only real way to diagnose that sort of problem is by substitution,
> > see if the problem still happens with a different physical drive, in
> > which case the problem isnt the drive itself, its the drive subsystem
> > or the cable or even something as basic as the power supply etc.
> > You do sometimes see that particular symptom with a drive that
> > sometimes doesnt spin up. That will be visible in the SMART report.
> >>>> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?
> >>> Nope.
> >> Bummer.
> >>> What are you posting from ?  Didnt you say you only have the one system ?
> >> Yeah, sorry, I hope I clarified the situation above.
> >> BTW, I also got the clone working, including Toshiba's extra
> >> partitions for making recovery discs and for disc-less recovery.
> >> So if this original drive really gave up the ghost, I'd have a fallback.
> > Yeah, thats important to do in that situation.
> > Tho an image of the Win partition would be another approach,
> > tho you would have to wait till Toshiba replaces the drive to use
> > it. With a clone, you could use the clone until the replacement
> > drive shows up if Toshiba is happy to ship you a replacement
> > drive. They mostly prefer to have the whole laptop tho because
> > that allows them to change other stuff if replacing the drive
> > doesnt fix the problem. They may see a number of failures
> > like that with that particular laptop and know that it usually
> > isnt the drive thats the problem. It would be unusual for those
> > symptoms to be due to the drive, with the drive sometimes
> > failing to spin up if the system complains that it has no drive
> > to boot off.
> > The other real possibility if its actually Win complaining that
> > it cant boot is that some of the sectors are very marginal
> > and sometimes can be read and sometimes cant. If thats
> > the problem, the SMART report will show thats the problem.
> >>> If you have removed the drive in the process of testing
> >>> to see if the clone will replace its successfully, it might
> >>> just be that you havent connected it properly now.
> >>> Its also possible that you have killed it too.
> >>> In theory you might have managed to clone backwards, from the
> >>> new drive to the original drive and thats whats made it unbootable
> >>> now. But if that was the problem it should show up in DFT.
> >>> What happens if you use the internal diagnostics in the Satellite ?
> >> Errr...would you know how to access it?
> > I'll see if I can find something after posting this post.

> Bugger, should have checked before posting, it was the first hit, trivial to find.http://tim.id.au/laptops/toshiba/satellite%20a660%20pro%20a660.pdf

> No use to you tho, their diagnostics come on a USB stick and floppy and CD.

> Wota packa dinosaurs.

> > Thats one of the reasons I dont normally buy Toshibas
> > myself, their maintenance manuals can be hard to find.
> > No use to you in the current situation tho given that its booting fine currently.
> > You would be able to try it if it the failure to boot shows up again, if the failure is that the laptop says it hasnt
> > got a hard drive to boot off.
> > If that happens, try booting the diskless recovery and just dont
> > actually do the recovery if it can boot the recovery partition.
> >>> Can you boot either of the recovery partitions ?
> >>> Presumably not if DFT cant see the drive.
> >> Hope I cleared up any misconception that I *currently* can't boot.
> > Yes.
> >> But the Toshiba advice to format the drive was so...er...striking
> >> that I want to learn the advanced diagnostics so I counter-propose
> >> with an alternative.  Of course, it's also just handy to have, in
> >> case something causes some concern.
> > The SMART report is that. It isnt useful in all circumstances, but usually is.
> > Main problem with any SMART report is that you do
> > need to know what you are doing to interpret them.

> On Jan 27, 11:54 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Rod Speed wrote

> > > AndyHancock wrote
> > >> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> > >>> AndyHancock wrote
> > >>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba
> > >>>> MK6465GSX HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures,
> > >>> Whoops, this is the original hard drive.
> > >>> Are the boot failures consistent or intermittent ?
> > >> The problem isn't presently exhibiting itself.
> > >> It was just several consecutive boot failures.
> > > What exactly happened when the boots failed ?
> > >> However, it was quite scary when Toshiba
> > >> tech support said I had to reformat the drive.
> > > Do you really mean reformat or do you mean use the diskless recovery ?
> > >> I asked if there was another diagnostic I could do,
> > >> and they said it wasn't as good as the information
> > >> from a format. There has been disagreement with this
> > >> advice (to put it politely) when I posted on various forums
> > > Yeah, if they do mean a real format from the OS,
> > > thats a pretty silly thing to do in the circumstances.
> > >> (maybe even this one).
> > > Nope.
> > >> When I'm talking to tech support, I want to be able to offer to them
> > >> a diagnostic alternative to chkdsk (which doesn't reveal anything),
> > >> and I don't want that alternative to be formatting my drive.
> > > True. An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does
> > > mostly boot fine.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> > > If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
> > > hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
> > > on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
> > > else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
> > > you what the problem actually is.
> > > Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
> > > just ignore the OKs.
> > >> Even if the cause of the problem was not the disk, it is reassuring
> > >> to confirm that with whatever diagnostic alternative I find.
> > > Sure, but doesnt that Toshiba have diagnostics available at boot time ?
> > >> In fact, that episode is what launched me into the new and
> > >> wonderful world of cloning, which I seem to be hobbling along in.
> > > OK, didnt realise it happened before you got into cloning.
> > >>>> I was advised on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness
> > >>>> Test (DFT).  I burned the ISO file to a CD and booted from it
> > >>>> (I need to press F12 for boot options and select the optical
> > >>>> drive), which successfully causes to run.  However, it doesn't
> > >>>> detect my HDD -- the list is empty.
> > >>> Most likely that is the reason it wont boot, the drive isnt visible
> > >>> to the system anymore.
> > >> Sorry, I should have clarified that the boot problem is gone,
> > >> but i still want get smart about advanced diagnostic options.
> > > OK.
> > >> The drive is visible in so far as it boots (and I use
> > >> it, like right this moment). It's just not visible to DFT.
> > > Quite a few of the laptops play silly buggers on the visibility
> > > of the drives, presumably thats what the problem is with DFT.
> > > I dont use DFT anymore anyway, it isnt particularly
> > > useful for the diagnosis of a hard drive problem like yours.
> > > The SMART report is normally much more useful unless the problem is that the laptop just cant see any drive at all at
> > > boot time.
> > > In that case no diagnostic is any use either, it cant
> > > diagnose any drive that isnt visible to the system.
> > > The only real way to diagnose that sort of problem is by substitution,
> > > see if the problem still happens with a different physical drive, in
> > > which case the problem isnt the drive itself, its the drive subsystem
> > > or the cable or even something as basic as the power supply etc.
> > > You do sometimes see that particular symptom with a drive that
> > > sometimes doesnt spin up. That will be visible in the SMART report.
> > >>>> Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?
> > >>> Nope.
> > >> Bummer.
> > >>> What are you posting from ?  Didnt you say you only have the one system ?
> > >> Yeah, sorry, I hope I clarified the situation above.
> > >> BTW, I also got the clone working, including Toshiba's extra
> > >> partitions for making recovery discs and for disc-less recovery.
> > >> So if this original drive really gave up the ghost, I'd have a fallback.
> > > Yeah, thats important to do in that situation.
> > > Tho an image of the Win partition would be another approach,
> > > tho you would have to wait till Toshiba replaces the drive to use
> > > it. With a clone, you could use the clone until the replacement
> > > drive shows up if Toshiba is happy to ship you a replacement
> > > drive. They mostly prefer to have the whole laptop tho because
> > > that allows them to change other stuff if replacing the drive
> > > doesnt fix the problem. They may see a number of failures
> > > like that with that particular laptop and know that it usually
> > > isnt the drive thats the problem. It would be unusual for those
> > > symptoms to be due to the drive, with the drive sometimes
> > > failing to spin up if the system complains that it has no drive
> > > to boot off.
> > > The other real possibility if its actually Win complaining that
> > > it cant boot is that some of the sectors are very marginal
> > > and sometimes can be read and sometimes cant. If thats
> > > the problem, the SMART report will show thats the problem.
> > >>> If you have removed the drive in the process of testing
> > >>> to see if the clone will replace its successfully, it might
> > >>> just be that you havent connected it properly now.
> > >>> Its also possible that you have killed it too.
> > >>> In theory you might have managed to clone backwards, from the
> > >>> new drive to the original drive and thats whats made it unbootable
> > >>> now. But if that was the problem it should show up in DFT.
> > >>> What happens if you use the internal diagnostics in the Satellite ?
> > >> Errr...would you know how to access it?
> > > I'll see if I can find something after posting this post.

> > Bugger, should have checked before posting, it was the first hit, trivial to find.http://tim.id.au/laptops/toshiba/satellite%20a660%20pro%20a660.pdf

> > No use to you tho, their diagnostics come on a USB stick and floppy and CD.

> > Wota packa dinosaurs.

> > > Thats one of the reasons I dont normally buy Toshibas
> > > myself, their maintenance manuals can be hard to find.
> > > No use to you in the current situation tho given that its booting fine currently.
> > > You would be able to try it if it the failure to boot shows up again, if the failure is that the laptop says it hasnt
> > > got a hard drive to boot off.
> > > If that happens, try booting the diskless recovery and just dont
> > > actually do the recovery if it can boot the recovery partition.
> > >>> Can you boot either of the recovery partitions ?
> > >>> Presumably not if DFT cant see the drive.
> > >> Hope I cleared up any misconception that I *currently* can't boot.
> > > Yes.
> > >> But the Toshiba advice to format the drive was so...er...striking
> > >> that I want to learn the advanced diagnostics so I counter-propose
> > >> with an alternative.  Of course, it's also just handy to have, in
> > >> case something causes some concern.
> > > The SMART report is that. It isnt useful in all circumstances, but usually is.
> > > Main problem with any SMART report is that you do
> > > need to know what you are doing to interpret them.

> Wow, thanks for that.  It took a bit to wade through the document.
> It's hard to tell what chapter you're in cuz the page numbering
> restarts with each chapter.  And I saw the bit about the USB/CD.

> I will call them again and see what they say.  I got a log book full
> of BSODS with different messages to report to them anyway, before the
> warranty expires in 2 days.  Maybe a different person won't say
> "format".  I'm not sure if they literally mean format or recover, but
> the end result is the same.  Weeks of time reconstructing my
> environment.

> Just to complete the story, I also ran memtest86+ for 12 passes, no
> issues.

> Thanks for all that good info., RS.

AndyHancock wrote:
> AH wrote: Rod Speed wrote:
>> An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does mostly boot fine.
>> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
>> If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
>> hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
>> on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
>> else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
>> you what the problem actually is.
>> Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
>> just ignore the OKs.
> OK here it is.  It's going to be wrap-around hell, but I can't think
> of a clean solution.

> I thought of adding a string (e.g. "<EOL") at
> the end of each physical line so that a techy dude like yourself could
> simply erase all carriage returns that wasn't preceded by <EOL>, but
> that would have made the grouples/usenet display even uglier.

> I have to post it in 2 pieces, since Grouples only allows 190K characters.
> By the way, when you asked whether Toshiba had diagnostics
> at boot time, did you mean diagnostics of the same sort here?

> I only have F2 and F12 shown as buttons to evoke setup and boot options.
> ******** SMART REPORT, PART 1 OF 2.

> [ SMART
> ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
>  574
>  575   [ TOSHIBA MK6465GSX (50N1B4QWB) ]
>  576
>  577     01  Raw Read Error Rate                  50   100
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal
>  578     02  Throughput Performance               50   100
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal
>  579     03  Spin Up Time                         1    100  100
> 1921  OK: Value is normal
>  580     04  Start/Stop Count                     0    100  100
> 1531  OK: Always passing
>  581     05  Reallocated Sector Count             50   100
> 100         696  OK: Value is normal

>  582     07  Seek Error Rate                      50   100
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal
>  583     08  Seek Time Performance                50   100
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal
>  584     09  Power-On Time Count                  0    96   96
> 1700  OK: Always passing
>  585     0A  Spin Retry Count                     30   130
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal
>  586     0C  Power Cycle Count                    0    100  100
> 1529  OK: Always passing
>  587     BF  G-Sense Error Rate                   0    100
> 100           4  OK: Always passing
>  588     C0  Power-Off Retract Count              0    100  100
> 13697035  OK: Always passing
>  589     C1  Load/Unload Cycle Count              0    96   96
> 45160  OK: Always passing
>  590     C2  Temperature                          0    100  100
> 14, 32  OK: Always passing

>  591     C4  Reallocation Event Count             0    100
> 100         105  OK: Always passing

>  592     C5  Current Pending Sector Count         0    100
> 100           0  OK: Always passing

>  593     C6  Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count  0    100
> 100           0  OK: Always passing
>  594     C7  Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate             0    200
> 200           0  OK: Always passing
>  595     DC  Disk Shift                           0    100  100
> 8252  OK: Always passing
>  596     DE  Loaded Hours                         0    97   97
> 1217  OK: Always passing
>  597     DF  Load Retry Count                     0    100
> 100           0  OK: Always passing
>  598     E0  Load Friction                        0    100
> 100           0  OK: Always passing
>  599     E2  Load-In Time                         0    100
> 100         340  OK: Always passing
>  600     F0  Head Flying Hours                    1    100
> 100           0  OK: Value is normal

> An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does mostly boot fine.
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
> hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
> on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
> else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
> you what the problem actually is.
> Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
> just ignore the OKs.

> I've left just the SMART report and interleaved comments on the important
> bits which do show that the problem is with the physical drive.

> Thats the problem, thats an immense number of reallocated sectors,
> the drive is dying.

> Its the last number that matters, thats the number of reallocated
> sectors.

> Thats fine, it hasnt been cooked, those are Celcius min/max values.

> Thats related to the problem with reallocated sectors.

> Thats sectors due to be reallocated if they turn out to stay bad,
> none currently.

> The drive is on its last legs. Toshiba will replace it under warranty.

> You might as well let them format or recover it if they are that stupid, you're
> going to have to restore your backups to the replacement drive anyway.

AndyHancock wrote:
> On Jan 28, 3:50 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> An Everest SMART report would be handy given that it does mostly
>> boot fine. http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
>> If the boot failures are just the system saying that there is no
>> hard drive to boot from it likely wont give you any useful info
>> on why thats happening, but if the boot failures are something
>> else, particularly if Win is saying it cant boot, it may well tell
>> you what the problem actually is.
>> Post just the SMART report here, it needs a bit of interpretation,
>> just ignore the OKs.

>   <...AH posts report, unquoted below...>

>> I've left just the SMART report and interleaved comments on the
>> important
>> bits which do show that the problem is with the physical drive.

>  [ TOSHIBA MK6465GSX (50N1B4QWB) ]

> 01 Raw Read Error Rate      50 100 100    0  OK:Value is normal
> 02 Throughput Performance   50 100 100    0  OK:Value is normal
> 03 Spin Up Time             1  100 100 1921  OK:Value is normal
> 04 Start/Stop Count         0  100 100 1531  OK:Always passing
> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 50 100 100  696  OK:Value is normal

>> Thats the problem, thats an immense number of reallocated sectors,
>> the drive is dying.

>> Its the last number that matters, thats the number of reallocated
>> sectors.

> 07 Seek Error Rate         50 100 100        0  OK:Value is normal
> 08 Seek Time Performance   50 100 100        0  OK:Value is normal
> 09 Power-On Time Count     0  96  96      1700  OK:Always passing
> 0A Spin Retry Count        30 130 100        0  OK:Value is normal
> 0C Power Cycle Count       0  100 100     1529  OK:Always passing
> BF G-Sense Error Rate      0  100 100        4  OK:Always passing
> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0  100 100 13697035  OK:Always passing
> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0  96  96     45160  OK:Always passing
> C2 Temperature             0  100 100   14, 32  OK:Always passing

>> Thats fine, it hasnt been cooked, those are Celcius min/max values.

> C4 Reallocation Event Count  0 100 100  105 OK:Always passing

>> Thats related to the problem with reallocated sectors.

> C5 Current Pending Sector Count  0 100 100  0  OK:Always passing

>> Thats sectors due to be reallocated if they turn out to stay bad,
>> none currently.

> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 100    0  OK:Always
> passing
> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate            0 200 200    0  OK:Always
> passing
> DC Disk Shift                          0 100 100 8252  OK:Always
> passing
> DE Loaded Hours                        0 97  97  1217  OK:Always
> passing
> DF Load Retry Count                    0 100 100    0  OK:Always
> passing
> E0 Load Friction                       0 100 100    0  OK:Always
> passing
> E2 Load-In Time                        0 100 100  340  OK:Always
> passing
> F0 Head Flying Hours                   1 100 100    0  OK:Value is
> normal

>> The drive is on its last legs. Toshiba will replace it under
>> warranty.

>> You might as well let them format or recover it if they are that
>> stupid, you're going to have to restore your backups to the
>> replacement drive anyway.

> That is absolutely horrible.  The whole laptop was just over a year
> old when they advised recovery (I checked, it was recovery to factory
> virgin state rather than reformatting).  And for about 3 of those
> months, the laptop was not used.  However, they clarified that the
> recovery process yields diagnostic messages about the hardware, so I
> can always restore from the clone afterward.  However, I'm not sure if
> the recovery diagnostics would catch dubious HDD stats.

> I surfed just a bit on SMART...it's kind of confusing, so I have to surf a bit more.

> There's reference to the fact that higher is better,

> and also that non-changing numbers are better.

> If it doesn't take you more than a sentence or two, what are the numerical columns?

Krypsis <kryp...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On 28/01/2012 1:33 AM, Arno wrote:
>> Krypsis<kryp...@optusnet.com.au>  wrote:
>>> On 27/01/2012 4:35 PM, AndyHancock wrote:
>>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite A660 PSAW3C-047017 with a Toshiba MK6465GSX
>>>> HDD.  After experience some consecutive boot failures, I was advised
>>>> on Toshiba forums to use Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  I burned
>>>> the ISO file to a CD and booted from it (I need to press F12 for boot
>>>> options and select the optical drive), which successfully causes to
>>>> run.  However, it doesn't detect my HDD -- the list is empty.  Is
>>>> there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

>>> Do you have another working drive, even of a lower capacity, that you
>>> can try in the Toshiba? If the drive integrated electronics are dead, it
>>> will not show up in the drive list. Don't use a valuable drive for this
>>> test, just an old one that is "dispensable". I keep a few old working
>>> drives around here for testing purposes in situations like this. There's
>>> always the possibility that a motherboard device failure could kill the
>>> drive used for testing.

>> Not really. The only relevant way to kill a drive by defect
>> electronics is by overvoltage, so a power-regulator overvoltage
>> failure is basically the only possible killer. This is rare and
>> would kill other components as well.

>> Arno
> Killed a rather expensive KVM with an overvoltage power supply. Tread
> warily nowadays.

> Rod, is there a webpage that indicates what raw numbers represent a
> high count for reallocated sectors? I'm not sure what kind of
> substantiation will be expected of me. Currently recovering to factory
> state. Using 1st generation iPod Touch to post...

> Rod, is there a webpage that indicates what raw numbers
> represent a high count for reallocated sectors?

> I'm not sure what kind of substantiation will be expected of me.

> Currently recovering to factory state. Using 1st generation iPod Touch to post...

> AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod, is there a webpage that indicates what raw numbers represent
>> a high count for reallocated sectors? I'm not sure what kind of
>> substantiation will be expected of me. Currently recovering to
>> factory state. Using 1st generation iPod Touch to post...
> Actually, after a few dropped calles and re-queueing, I spoke to
> support, and they agree that 696 is high for a Reallocated Sector
> Count.  I have to arrange to lose the machine for 2 weeks while they
> replace the HDD.  I wonder if they do that on purpose to dissuade
> RMAs.

> They apparently can't order it ahead of time cuz they need to test it themselves.

> I'm going to confirm the high count now that I've recovered
> to factory default settings.  I don't believe the count should
> be affected, but what the hey.

> Just installing the updates so that it's somewhat
> safe to surf is taking the evening and into the night.

> I can probably pull Everest Home Edition off the clone, but that means mounting it,
> which could change the clone and its bootability in ways that I'm not aware of

AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 10:59?pm, AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod, is there a webpage that indicates what raw numbers represent a
>> high count for reallocated sectors? I'm not sure what kind of
>> substantiation will be expected of me. Currently recovering to factory
>> state. Using 1st generation iPod Touch to post...
> Actually, after a few dropped calles and re-queueing, I spoke to
> support, and they agree that 696 is high for a Reallocated Sector
> Count.  I have to arrange to lose the machine for 2 weeks while they
> replace the HDD.  I wonder if they do that on purpose to dissuade
> RMAs.  They apparently can't order it ahead of time cuz they need to
> test it themselves.

>Toshiba MK6465GSX HDD.  
>Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).  
>Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

> AndyHancock wrote

> > AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Rod, is there a webpage that indicates what raw numbers represent
> >> a high count for reallocated sectors? I'm not sure what kind of
> >> substantiation will be expected of me. Currently recovering to
> >> factory state. Using 1st generation iPod Touch to post...
> > Actually, after a few dropped calles and re-queueing, I spoke to
> > support, and they agree that 696 is high for a Reallocated Sector
> > Count.  I have to arrange to lose the machine for 2 weeks while they
> > replace the HDD.  I wonder if they do that on purpose to dissuade
> > RMAs.

> Nar, its just a basic approach that usually is the best approach.

> With most other symptoms, it can be due to the drive itself or due
> to something else in the drive subsystem like the cable or connector
> and even with motherboard etc so they want to be able to change
> those if swapping the hard drive doesnt fix the problem.

> With reallocated sectors, that wont be the case when the drive hasnt
> been over temperatured, but their proceedures arent that fine grained.

> > They apparently can't order it ahead of time cuz they need to test it themselves.

> Yeah, they dont allow for users who can test stuff themselves.

> > I'm going to confirm the high count now that I've recovered
> > to factory default settings.  I don't believe the count should
> > be affected, but what the hey.

> Yeah, it might have increased, because the restore to factory config
> uses the drive much more than you normally would in  normal use.

> > Just installing the updates so that it's somewhat
> > safe to surf is taking the evening and into the night.

> Yeah, it can do if the net service isnt that fast.

> > I can probably pull Everest Home Edition off the clone, but that means mounting it,
> > which could change the clone and its bootability in ways that I'm not aware of

> Yeah, its safer to download that again.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> in case you didnt write it down.

> In article <01f8595b-bd76-428a-9f00-e529b548b...@hs8g2000vbb.googlegroup
> s.com>, AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> writes

> >Toshiba MK6465GSX HDD.
> >Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test (DFT).
> >Is there something I need to do to make it visit to DFT?

> Why do you expect a Hitachi disk test utility to work with a Toshiba
> drive?

> AndyHancock <andymhanc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...after a few dropped calles and re-queueing, I spoke to
> > support, and they agree that 696 is high for a Reallocated Sector
> > Count.  I have to arrange to lose the machine for 2 weeks while they
> > replace the HDD.  I wonder if they do that on purpose to dissuade
> > RMAs.  They apparently can't order it ahead of time cuz they need to
> > test it themselves.

> 696 is pretty high. Unless caused by an environmental factor
> (vibration, bad power, heat), the drive is dying.