Dying/Failing Old HDD?
ANT...@zimage.com
slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
smartctl -a sda
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-xp-sp2] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6Y080M0
Serial Number: Y22BP5AC
Firmware Version: YAR51HW0
User Capacity: 80,000,000,000 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 15:33:24 2009 PST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 241) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 36) minutes.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 224 224 063 Pre-fail Always - 7747
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 65
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 063 Pre-fail Always - 0
6 Read_Channel_Margin 0x0001 253 253 100 Pre-fail Offline - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 248 237 187 Pre-fail Always - 38101
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always - 614h+43m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail Always - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 72
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 50
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 924
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age Offline - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 243 000 Old_age Always - 15
202 TA_Increase_Count 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always - 2
204 Shock_Count_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
205 Shock_Rate_Write_Opern 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
209 Offline_Seek_Performnce 0x0024 191 191 000 Old_age Offline - 0
99 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
100 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
101 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 35352 -
# 2 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 29236 -
# 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0 -
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
What do you guys think? Thank you in advance. :)
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )
Rod Speed
> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting
> slower and slower these days. I wonder if it is dying.
You dont usually get that particular symptom if it is dying.
> I don't see anything in SMART colors to show
> any issues. The technical values confuse me:
Yeah, thats always been one downside with SMART, the values can be confusing.
The everest SMART report is more readable than smartctl too.
The drive is fine.
ANT...@zimage.com
> ANT...@zimage.com wrote:
>
>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting
>> slower and slower these days. I wonder if it is dying.
>
> You dont usually get that particular symptom if it is dying.
Really? In the past, I had an old HDD that read so slow like under 1 MB/sec. I swapped with an other old HDD and it was faster.
>
>> I don't see anything in SMART colors to show
>> any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>
> Yeah, thats always been one downside with SMART, the values can be confusing.
>
> The everest SMART report is more readable than smartctl too.
Ah.
>> smartctl -a sda
>> smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-xp-sp2] Copyright (C) 2002-8
[snipped]
> The drive is fine.
Thanks. :)
ANT...@zimage.com
smartctl 5.39 2009-12-09 r2995 [i686-pc-mingw32-xp-sp2] (sf-win32-5.39-1)
Copyright (C) 2002-9 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6Y080M0
Serial Number: Y22BP5AC
Firmware Version: YAR51HW0
User Capacity: 80,000,000,000 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 18:23:31 2009 PST
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 249 237 187 Pre-fail Always - 34557
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always - 617h+32m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail Always - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 72
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 50
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 1504
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age Offline - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 243 000 Old_age Always - 26
202 Data_Address_Mark_Errs 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always - 1
204 Soft_ECC_Correction 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
205 Thermal_Asperity_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
209 Offline_Seek_Performnce 0x0024 191 191 000 Old_age Offline - 0
99 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
100 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
101 Unknown_Attribute 0x0004 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0
SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 36417 -
# 2 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 35352 -
# 3 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 29236 -
# 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0 -
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
ANT...@zimage.com
>> any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>
> Yeah, thats always been one downside with SMART, the values can be confusing.
>
> The everest SMART report is more readable than smartctl too.
Isn't Everest program not free anymore? :(
Rod Speed
>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting
>>> slower and slower these days. I wonder if it is dying.
>> You dont usually get that particular symptom if it is dying.
> Really?
Yes.
> In the past, I had an old HDD that read so slow like under 1
> MB/sec. I swapped with an other old HDD and it was faster.
Likely the second drive was always faster even when both drives were brand new.
You can get a drive being slower when its dying, when it
retrys on bads and does eventually read the data correctly,
but if it was that it would show up on the SMART report.
>>> I don't see anything in SMART colors to show
>>> any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>> Yeah, thats always been one downside with SMART, the values can be confusing.
>> The everest SMART report is more readable than smartctl too.
> Ah.
>>> smartctl -a sda
>>> smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-xp-sp2] Copyright (C) 2002-8
> [snipped]
>> The drive is fine.
> Thanks. :)
Sorrite. And stop smirking. This is no laughing matter.
Rod Speed
Rod Speed
Yes, but the free version is still available.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
Arno
> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
Looks healthy. Likely just fragmented like crazy or low on free
space.
Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: ar...@wagner.name
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD ...
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 65
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
- 614h+43m
Hmmm, you have an old generation HDD that has run for only 614 hours
and has been power cycled only 65 times ???
>... is getting slower and slower these days.
Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 50
The temperature is about 10C too high for my liking.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
3877
> ANT...@zimage.com wrote
>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
> Looks healthy.
Yes.
> Likely just fragmented like crazy
Wont be that.
> or low on free space.
Or that either.
Neither will produce those symptoms.
Rod Speed
> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
Check if the DMA has got turned off somehow.
Ant
> Its still fine, nothing that matters has changed in the SMART report.
Thanks again. :)
--
"The tiny ant dares to enter the lion's ear." --Armenian
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
Ant
>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>
> Looks healthy. Likely just fragmented like crazy or low on free
> space.
I actually did defrag, but that didn't seem to help. Hmm! Nothing odd in
task manager. I did notice lots of disk activities.
--
"The tiny ant dares to enter the lion's ear." --Armenian
/\___/\
Ant
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:42:18 -0600, ANT...@zimage.com put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD ...
>
> Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
>
> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
> - 65
>
> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
> - 614h+43m
>
> Hmmm, you have an old generation HDD that has run for only 614 hours
> and has been power cycled only 65 times ???
The PC is mostly on 24/7. Very rare that it is off. It does get rebooted
like every two weeks or so due to Windows Updates or whatever.
>> ... is getting slower and slower these days.
>
> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
>> I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>
>> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 50
>
> The temperature is about 10C too high for my liking.
It's a Dell Optiplex GX270 or 280 (always get them mixxed up) case. :(
--
"One day he sprained an ankle rather than crush an ant." --Les Miserables
/\___/\
Ant
Where would I check that in XP Pro. SP3? Good call. I remember in
Windows 9x, that could be done somewhere, but I can't remember where
exactly. :(
--
"In a battle between elephants, the ants get squashed." --Thailand
/\___/\
Rod Speed
> Arno wrote
>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>> Looks healthy. Likely just fragmented like crazy or low on free space.
> I actually did defrag, but that didn't seem to help.
It wont be that.
> Hmm! Nothing odd in task manager.
> I did notice lots of disk activities.
Which OS is it ?
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>> Check if the DMA has got turned off somehow.
> Where would I check that in XP Pro. SP3?
In the Device Manager, propertys of the controller.
> Good call. I remember in Windows 9x, that could be done somewhere, but I can't remember where exactly. :(
Yeah, tho you would normally expect to see lots of errors
on the cable in the SMART stats, the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count
and you dont if that got it disabled. Might have happened quite
a while ago tho and you have since replaced the cable etc.
Ant
> Which OS is it ?
Windows XP Pro. SP2.
--
"Ants follow fat." --unknown
Ant
>>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>>>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>>>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>
>>> Check if the DMA has got turned off somehow.
>
>> Where would I check that in XP Pro. SP3?
>
> In the Device Manager, propertys of the controller.
I will check later today since I am not at the computer. Checking my
home PC's XP Pro. SP3, I assume it is in "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers"
section in one of those listed controllers. None of mine say anything
about DMAs, but then I have no IDE/ATA drives connected (got rid of the
old DVD-ROM drive a few weeks ago).
>> Good call. I remember in Windows 9x, that could be done somewhere, but I can't remember where exactly. :(
>
> Yeah, tho you would normally expect to see lots of errors
> on the cable in the SMART stats, the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count
> and you dont if that got it disabled. Might have happened quite
> a while ago tho and you have since replaced the cable etc.
The only replaced inside the case was the PSU that was over three years
ago. Dell techie replaced it for free (under warranty).
--
"What do ants and bees use for cattle?" --Tom
Franc Zabkar
to keyboard and composed:
>On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>>> ... is getting slower and slower these days.
>>
>> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>
>Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
I don't use XP, but in Win98SE that's where you'd find it.
These articles may help.
DMA Mode for ATA/ATAPI Devices in Windows XP:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx
DMA reverts to PIO:
http://winhlp.com/node/10
Ant
Sheesh, I forgot a word. ;)
--
"To the gods I am an ant, but to the ants, I am a god." --unknown
Arno
> On 12/29/2009 6:59 PM PT, Arno typed:
>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower and
>>> slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>>> SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>>
>> Looks healthy. Likely just fragmented like crazy or low on free
>> space.
> I actually did defrag, but that didn't seem to help. Hmm! Nothing odd in
> task manager. I did notice lots of disk activities.
I see thios thing has only been restarted 72 times in 5 years.
Maybe you have a memory leak in the OS or some application?
Best check free memory.
Other possible causes:
- Spyware/malware.
- Updated applications needing more resources
or haveing (new) memory leaks.
- A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
- Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks)
and maybe also more in the slower areas towards the end of the
disk.
If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually
getting slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
Arno
Arno
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:42:18 -0600, ANT...@zimage.com put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>>I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD ...
> Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
> - 65
> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
> - 614h+43m
> Hmmm, you have an old generation HDD that has run for only 614 hours
> and has been power cycled only 65 times ???
I think smartctl has some interpretation problems with attribute 9
for some disks. I have a notebook disks (Samsung 160JI), that
tells me 2562261 "hours" in attribute 9, where it should say
"half minutes".
Look at the selftest log, there is something more realistic
(4 years run-time) for the last selftest. If you take 614 hours
and assume smartctl took seconds instead of minutes as base
units, you end up pretty close to the same 4 years.
>>... is getting slower and slower these days.
> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
Indeed. Add to my list in my other posting.
>>I wonder if it is dying. I don't see anything in
>>SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values confuse me:
>>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 50
> The temperature is about 10C too high for my liking.
I agree.
Ant
> Maybe you have a memory leak in the OS or some application?
> Best check free memory.
I checked already.
> Other possible causes:
> - Spyware/malware.
Clean system.
> - Updated applications needing more resources
> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max? It's old. :)
> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks)
> and maybe also more in the slower areas towards the end of the
> disk.
Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
> If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually
> getting slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
Any good benchmark tools?
--
"What reason, like the careful ant, draws laboriously together, the wind
of accident sometimes collects in a moment." --Friedrich von Schiller
ANT...@zimage.com
Thanks. :)
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
ANT...@zimage.com
>>On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>
>>>> ... is getting slower and slower these days.
>>>
>>> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>>
>>Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
Found them:
Primary IDE Channel #1:
Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
Primary IDE Channel #1:
Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
I assume those are correct. I have one DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and that Maxtor HDD.
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD is getting slower
>>>>> and slower these days. I wonder if it is dying. I don't see
>>>>> anything in SMART colors to show any issues. The technical values
>>>>> confuse me:
>>>> Check if the DMA has got turned off somehow.
>>> Where would I check that in XP Pro. SP3?
>> In the Device Manager, propertys of the controller.
>
> I will check later today since I am not at the computer. Checking my
> home PC's XP Pro. SP3, I assume it is in "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers"
> section in one of those listed controllers.
Yes, the Primary IDE Channel and Secondary IDE Channel, Advanced settings of the propertys of those.
> None of mine say anything about DMAs,
One of mine doesnt, from memory that one was the one I installed the Intel drivers for.
> but then I have no IDE/ATA drives connected (got rid of the old DVD-ROM drive a few weeks ago).
It should still be there even with no drives installed on that channel.
Everest can show you if its not in the device manager entry.
>>> Good call. I remember in Windows 9x, that could be done somewhere, but I can't remember where exactly. :(
>> Yeah, tho you would normally expect to see lots of errors
>> on the cable in the SMART stats, the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count
>> and you dont if that got it disabled. Might have happened quite
>> a while ago tho and you have since replaced the cable etc.
> The only replaced inside the case was the PSU that was over three years ago. Dell techie replaced it for free (under
> warranty).
It might have gone bad and come good by itself, its not that uncommon
with those older ribbon cables, it isnt that hard to bend one of the prongs
that bite into the ribbon when making the cable in the first place.
Rod Speed
>> I see thios thing has only been restarted 72 times in 5 years.
>> Maybe you have a memory leak in the OS or some application?
>> Best check free memory.
> I checked already.
>> Other possible causes:
>> - Spyware/malware.
> Clean system.
>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
Everest can tell you.
> It's old. :)
>> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks) and maybe also more in the slower areas towards
>> the end of the disk.
> Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
Yes.
>> If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually getting slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
> Any good benchmark tools?
Real work is best, but you need to have done and recorded that when
it was a new XP install to see if it really has degraded over time or
whether thats just an illusion because you also use other more modern
faster systems as well and so its just an illusion that it has go slower.
If none of that shows up anything useful, I'd image the system,
do a completely clean XP install on a freshly formatted hard
drive and compare real world benchmarks on those two configs.
You do sometimes see XP installs degrade over time and
end up measurably slower than a clean install.
Rod Speed
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar
> <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>>> On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>>
>>>>> ... is getting slower and slower these days.
>>>>
>>>> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>>>
>>> Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
>
> Found them:
>
> Primary IDE Channel #1:
> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>
> Primary IDE Channel #1:
> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
Presumably that is a typo and the second one is the secondary channel.
> I assume those are correct.
Yes, it hasnt dropped into PIO mode.
> I have one DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and that Maxtor HDD.
Looks like the slowdown is an illusion or the XP install has degraded
over time if Everest shows the cpu is running at full speed.
Your report of significant disk activity does make it sound like the
clean install of XP would be work trying, particularly with an image
of the current install so you can just restore it if the clean install
makes no difference.
ANT...@zimage.com
I checked already.
However, the system only has 1 GB of RAM, but I don't recall it being that slow.
>
>>> Other possible causes:
>>> - Spyware/malware.
>
>> Clean system.
>
>>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
>
>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
>
> Everest can tell you.
http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>> It's old. :)
>
>>> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks) and maybe also more in the slower areas towards
>>> the end of the disk.
>
>> Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
>
> Yes.
OK, I tried a few and don't see much improvements. Even defragged my pagefile.
>>> If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually getting slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
>
>> Any good benchmark tools?
>
> Real work is best, but you need to have done and recorded that when
> it was a new XP install to see if it really has degraded over time or
> whether thats just an illusion because you also use other more modern
> faster systems as well and so its just an illusion that it has go slower.
>
> If none of that shows up anything useful, I'd image the system,
> do a completely clean XP install on a freshly formatted hard
> drive and compare real world benchmarks on those two configs.
> You do sometimes see XP installs degrade over time and
> end up measurably slower than a clean install.
Or time for a new system. :D
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
ANT...@zimage.com
>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar
>> <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>>>> On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>>>
>>>>>> ... is getting slower and slower these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>>>>
>>>> Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
>>
>> Found them:
>>
>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>>
>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>
> Presumably that is a typo and the second one is the secondary channel.
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8297/screenshotl.gif for screen shots.
>> I assume those are correct.
>
> Yes, it hasnt dropped into PIO mode.
Good then.
>> I have one DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and that Maxtor HDD.
>
> Looks like the slowdown is an illusion or the XP install has degraded
> over time if Everest shows the cpu is running at full speed.
Yeah. http://pastie.org/761689 ... No idea if that is correct.
Christian Franke
> Franc Zabkar<...> wrote:
>
>> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
>> - 614h+43m
>
>> Hmmm, you have an old generation HDD that has run for only 614 hours
>> and has been power cycled only 65 times ???
>
> I think smartctl has some interpretation problems with attribute 9
> for some disks. I have a notebook disks (Samsung 160JI), that
> tells me 2562261 "hours" in attribute 9, where it should say
> "half minutes".
>
Samsung M series was missing in smartmontools drive database, should be
fixed now.
The problem is that SMART attributes and especially the raw values are
not standardized at all. The Power_On_??? raw value interpretations may
differ even between different firmware releases for the same drive model.
Christian
Arno
>> I see thios thing has only been restarted 72 times in 5 years.
>> Maybe you have a memory leak in the OS or some application?
>> Best check free memory.
> I checked already.
>> Other possible causes:
>> - Spyware/malware.
> Clean system.
>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max? It's old. :)
Hmm. There are some tools that can detect thermal throteling,
but I have no idea what they are. Maybe try to get the CPU
temperature with something like speedfan and see whether it
is suspicuously high.
>> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks)
>> and maybe also more in the slower areas towards the end of the
>> disk.
> Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
That is a fundamental problem which cannot be fixed. A seek over
more tracks just needs longer time, so a fuller disk is typically
a bit slower.
>> If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually
>> getting slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
> Any good benchmark tools?
There is HDBench by the german computer ,agazine ct. I have
not looked at it in some years though.
Arno
> Christian
Pretty much what I expected. Thanks for all the work going
into the database fixing hwat should have been done right in
the first place.
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>Franc Zabkar <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:42:18 -0600, ANT...@zimage.com put finger to
>> keyboard and composed:
>
>>>I noticed my five(?) years old office PC's HDD ...
>
>> Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 family
>
>> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always
>> - 65
>
>> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
>> - 614h+43m
>
>> Hmmm, you have an old generation HDD that has run for only 614 hours
>> and has been power cycled only 65 times ???
>
>I think smartctl has some interpretation problems with attribute 9
>for some disks. I have a notebook disks (Samsung 160JI), that
>tells me 2562261 "hours" in attribute 9, where it should say
>"half minutes".
>
>Look at the selftest log, there is something more realistic
>(4 years run-time) for the last selftest. If you take 614 hours
>and assume smartctl took seconds instead of minutes as base
>units, you end up pretty close to the same 4 years.
Here are the two SMART reports:
=====================================================================
Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 15:33:24 2009 PST
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
- 614h+43m
=====================================================================
Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 18:23:31 2009 PST
9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
- 617h+32m
=====================================================================
Difference in Local Time is 2hrs 50min.
Difference in Power_On_Minutes is 2hrs 49min.
Rod Speed
>>>> Best check free memory.
> I checked already.
> However, the system only has 1 GB of RAM,
That certainly explains the disk activity.
> but I don't recall it being that slow.
Bet you are just remembering it wrong and because
you also use other systems, you find it slow now.
More physical ram would certainly make it quite a bit faster.
>>>> Other possible causes:
>>>> - Spyware/malware.
>>> Clean system.
>>>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>>>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>>>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>>>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
>>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
>> Everest can tell you.
> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
You need the overclock tab for that.
>>> It's old. :)
>>>> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks)
>>>> and maybe also more in the slower areas towards the end of the disk.
>>> Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
>> Yes.
> OK, I tried a few and don't see much improvements. Even defragged my pagefile.
Yeah, it doesnt make any difference on systems of
that vintage except in the more unusual situations
like copying all the files for primitive backup etc.
>>>> If it is not that, maybe try to assess what is actually getting
>>>> slower: Access time or throughput and to what degree.
>>> Any good benchmark tools?
>> Real work is best, but you need to have done and recorded that when
>> it was a new XP install to see if it really has degraded over time or
>> whether thats just an illusion because you also use other more modern
>> faster systems as well and so its just an illusion that it has go slower.
>> If none of that shows up anything useful, I'd image the system,
>> do a completely clean XP install on a freshly formatted hard
>> drive and compare real world benchmarks on those two configs.
>> You do sometimes see XP installs degrade over time and
>> end up measurably slower than a clean install.
> Or time for a new system. :D
True, that will certainly make a very dramatic difference.
Ant
>>>>> Best check free memory.
>
>> I checked already.
>
>> However, the system only has 1 GB of RAM,
>
> That certainly explains the disk activity.
But the weird part is I don't remember it being this slow in the past.
Not much has changed on this old box either. I even uninstalled newer
stuff, and that didn't help. Oh well.
> Bet you are just remembering it wrong and because
> you also use other systems, you find it slow now.
>
> More physical ram would certainly make it quite a bit faster.
>
>>>>> Other possible causes:
>>>>> - Spyware/malware.
>
>>>> Clean system.
>
>>>>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>>>>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>>>>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>>>>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
>
>>>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
>
>>> Everest can tell you.
>
>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>
> You need the overclock tab for that.
I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
--
"Hey dad, look. I put honey on my back, and now the ants are carrying me
home." --Chris from Family Guy
/\___/\
Ant
>>> I see thios thing has only been restarted 72 times in 5 years.
>>> Maybe you have a memory leak in the OS or some application?
>>> Best check free memory.
>
>> I checked already.
>
>
>>> Other possible causes:
>>> - Spyware/malware.
>
>> Clean system.
>
>
>>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
>
>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max? It's old. :)
>
> Hmm. There are some tools that can detect thermal throteling,
> but I have no idea what they are. Maybe try to get the CPU
> temperature with something like speedfan and see whether it
> is suspicuously high.
>
>>> - Disk getting fuller and accesses more distributed (longer seeks)
>>> and maybe also more in the slower areas towards the end of the
>>> disk.
>
>> Isn't defrag supposed to fix that?
>
> That is a fundamental problem which cannot be fixed. A seek over
> more tracks just needs longer time, so a fuller disk is typically
> a bit slower.
Hmm, could be slower. I have like 1-2 GB free on C: and 8 GB free on D:
and E:. These are all partitions/drives on one HDD.
--
"As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of
men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior
of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she
is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Best check free memory.
>>> I checked already.
>>> However, the system only has 1 GB of RAM,
>> That certainly explains the disk activity.
> But the weird part is I don't remember it being this slow in the past. Not much has changed on this old box either. I
> even uninstalled newer stuff, and that didn't help. Oh well.
Then it would be worth trying a clean install of XP after imaging the current install.
>> Bet you are just remembering it wrong and because
>> you also use other systems, you find it slow now.
>> More physical ram would certainly make it quite a bit faster.
>>>>>> Other possible causes:
>>>>>> - Spyware/malware.
>>>>> Clean system.
>>>>>> - Updated applications needing more resources
>>>>>> or haveing (new) memory leaks.
>>>>>> - A CPU with thermal throtheling and an unmaintained
>>>>>> cooling system (dust, fan with lubrication problems)
>>>>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
>>>> Everest can tell you.
>>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>> You need the overclock tab for that.
> I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
Probably, its in the Computer tab on the left, second from the top.
Rod Speed
> Arno typed
>>> I checked already.
>>> Clean system.
That claim about full hard drives being slower is just plain wrong. Doesnt happen.
Arno
Thanks for ruining my (obviously wrong)
interpretation.
Hmm. Time since last power-up then?
Jim Nugent
"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
news:_6udnRczXegUeafW...@earthlink.com...
> On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>
>
> Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
Here are instructions for making sure UDMA is turned on from
http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=copy. These instructions are intended
for troubleshooting errant CD-ROM copy protection issues, so just substitute
"your
slow HDD" for "your CD/DVD drive." Note that the setting applies to the IDE
Channel (Controller) device, not the HDD device itself. You probably have a
primary and secondary channel.
1.. Open the Device Manager.
2.. Double-click IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers to display the list of
controllers and channels.
3.. Right-click the icon for the channel to which your CD/DVD drive is
connected, select Properties, and then click the Advanced Settings tab.
4.. In the Current Transfer Mode drop-down box, select "DMA if Available"
if the current setting is "PIO Only." If the drop-down box already shows
"DMA if Available" but the current transfer mode is PIO, then you must
toggle the settings. That is:
a.. Change the selection from "DMA if available" to PIO only, and click
OK.
b.. Then repeat the steps above to change the selection to DMA if
available.
Ant
>>>>> Everest can tell you.
>>>> >>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>>> >> You need the overclock tab for that.
>> > I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
> Probably, its in the Computer tab on the left, second from the top.
I will check again on Monday (long weekend now). Happy new year BTW. ;)
--
"The sun's just a big glass, we're all ants, I LOVE YOU." --"Magnified"
song by the Failure band
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is/was listening to a song on his home computer: ShootingStar -
/Closer\ (ID: 299733)
Ant
> "Ant"<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
> news:_6udnRczXegUeafW...@earthlink.com...
>> On 12/29/2009 9:00 PM PT, Franc Zabkar typed:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:42:18 -0600, ANT...@zimage.com put finger to
>>> keyboard and composed:
>>>
>>> Check whether it has been downgraded from DMA mode to PIO.
>>
>> Would that be in XP Pro. SP2's Device Manager?
>
> Here are instructions for making sure UDMA is turned on from
> http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=copy. These instructions are intended
> for troubleshooting errant CD-ROM copy protection issues, so just substitute
> "your
> slow HDD" for "your CD/DVD drive." Note that the setting applies to the IDE
> Channel (Controller) device, not the HDD device itself. You probably have a
> primary and secondary channel.
Thanks, I already checked yesterday and posted about it:
Primary IDE Channel #1:
Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
Primary IDE Channel #1:
Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8297/screenshotl.gif
--
"None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is/was listening to a song on his home computer: TrevorMcNally - TM
- Retrovert (ID: 298973)
Ant
>>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
>>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>>>
>>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
>>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>>
>> Presumably that is a typo and the second one is the secondary channel.
>
> http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8297/screenshotl.gif for screen shots.
No reply about this possible typo or something, Rod or anyone? :(
--
"I have to sit up with a sick ant." --unknown
/\___/\
Rod Speed
> On 12/30/2009 10:40 PM PT, Rod Speed typed:
>
>>>>>> Everest can tell you.
>>>>>>>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>>>>>> You need the overclock tab for that.
>>>> I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
>> Probably, its in the Computer tab on the left, second from the top.
>
> I will check again on Monday (long weekend now). Happy new year BTW.
> ;)
Thanks for that, same to you and yours.
Rod Speed
> ANT...@zimage.com wrote
>>>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>>>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5
>>>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>>>> Primary IDE Channel #1:
>>>> Device 0: Current Transfer Mode: Ultra DMA Mode 2
>>>> Device 1: Current Transfer Mode: Not Applicable
>>> Presumably that is a typo and the second one is the secondary channel.
>> http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8297/screenshotl.gif for screen shots.
> No reply about this possible typo or something, Rod or anyone? :(
I didnt bother to comment because it obviously wasnt a typo.
The motherboard has two separate controllers so it can have two primarys.
Ant
OK. :)
--
"Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we fight with
cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify...
simplify..." --Henry Thoreau
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is/was listening to a song on his home computer: 009 Sound System -
Dreamscape
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>Franc Zabkar <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>> On 30 Dec 2009 15:55:52 GMT, Arno <m...@privacy.net> put finger to
>> keyboard and composed:
>>>Franc Zabkar <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>> Here are the two SMART reports:
>> =====================================================================
>> Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 15:33:24 2009 PST
>
>> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
>> - 614h+43m
>> =====================================================================
>> Local Time is: Tue Dec 29 18:23:31 2009 PST
>
>> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 141 141 000 Old_age Always
>> - 617h+32m
>> =====================================================================
>
>> Difference in Local Time is 2hrs 50min.
>
>> Difference in Power_On_Minutes is 2hrs 49min.
>
>Thanks for ruining my (obviously wrong)
>interpretation.
>
>Hmm. Time since last power-up then?
>
>Arno
Yes, that sounds logical.
Perhaps the normalised value of Power_On_Minutes (or Power_on_Time)
represents the total lifetime???
If we assume that a value of 253 equates to Power_on_Time = 0, and if
we accept a figure of 10 years at 24/7 as being the total lifetime
before the drive hits the SMART threshold of 0, then the drive's age
is somewhere between ...
((253 - 141) / 253) x 10 = 4.43 years
... and ...
((253 - 140) / 253) x 10 = 4.47 years
If the OS has not been rebuilt since the initial installation, then
one would expect the date stamp of the Windows directory to reflect
the age of the drive, probably mid July of 2005.
The drive appears to be power cycled once every month, on average.
Franc Zabkar
keyboard and composed:
>Time since last power-up then?
I don't know about Windows XP, but in Win98SE there is an MS tool
called msinfo32.exe which displays Uptime under the System Information
tab.
Ant
> The drive appears to be power cycled once every month, on average.
That sounds about right. I usually update for Windows Updates.
--
"Really. And do these lions eat ants?" --John Cleese in Monty Python's
Flying Circus
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| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
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Christian Franke
>
> I don't know about Windows XP, but in Win98SE there is an MS tool
> called msinfo32.exe which displays Uptime under the System Information
> tab.
>
The msinfo32.exe still exists under XP, but apparently no longer shows
this info.
But the command line tool systeminfo.exe displays this info
(as "Up Time" in the english version).
Alternative: Simply run 'uptime' from a Cygwin shell :-)
Christian
ANT...@zimage.com
>
>>>>> Everest can tell you.
>
>>>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>
>>> You need the overclock tab for that.
>
>> I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
>
> Probably, its in the Computer tab on the left, second from the top.
I see it now and here it is: http://pastie.org/768018 ... :)
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
Rod Speed
>>>>>>> Could be. How can I check to see how fast CPU is going at max?
>>>>>> Everest can tell you.
>>>>> http://pastie.org/761689 for the results.
>>>> You need the overclock tab for that.
>>> I didn't see an OC tab. Or did I overlook it?
>> Probably, its in the Computer tab on the left, second from the top.
> I see it now and here it is: http://pastie.org/768018 ... :)
Thats fine, its running at full speed.
Ant
Thanks again. :)
--
"The little ant at its hole is full of courage." --African
/\___/\